Q4 24/25

Jun 9, 2025

Summary

FY25 revenue rose 14% and EBITDA 35%, with margins improving to 6.5%. Cost savings, stronger appliance execution and growth in AC and refrigerators underpin the push toward double-digit EBITDA margins.

This call is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Risa John. Thank you, and over to you. Thank you, Hachishi. On behalf of Nirmal Bang Institutional Equities, I would like to welcome you all to the Q4 FY 2025 earnings call of IFB Industries Limited. The management today is represented by Mr. Bikramjit Nag, Chairman; Mr. P.H. Narayanan, MD, Engineering Division; Mr. C.S. Govindaraj, ED, Manufacturing of the Home Appliances Division; Mr. Soumitra Goswami, CFO; Mr. Jayanta Chanda, CFO of the Engineering Division; Mr. Kartik Muchandi, Head Finance and Accounts, Home Appliance Division; and Mr. Ranjan Mohan, National Sales Head, Home Appliance Division. I will now hand over to the management for their opening remarks, after which we will open up the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Good afternoon, everybody. I am Soumitra Goswami, the Chief Financial Officer of IFB Industries Limited. I welcome you all for IFB Industries Limited Investors Call for Q4 of the year FY 2024-2025. I have with me Mr. Bikramjit Nag, Chairman of IFB Industries Limited; Mr. P.H. Narayanan, Managing Director and Chief Executive of our Engineering Division; Mr. Jay Chanda, CFO of our Engineering Division; Mr. C.S. Govindaraj, Executive Director, Manufacturing of our Appliance Division; Mr. Kartik Muchandi, Head of Finance of our Appliance Division; Mr. Ranjan Mohan Mathur, Head of Sales of our Appliance Division. Now I will inform you about the Q4 results. Revenue for the quarter was INR 1,330 crores against last year, INR 1,067 crores, with a growth of 23%, and in value term, the growth amount is INR 245 crores over last year. EBITDA for the period was INR 69 crores and its percentage to revenue was 5.28% as compared to last year's INR 54 crores, which was 5.10% on revenue. EBITDA amount came across a growth of 28% year-on-year. Fixed expenditure for the quarter was well behind budget. PBT for the period was INR 29 crores against last year's figure of INR 16 crores, growth of 81%. Q4 PAT was INR 22 crores as compared to last year's INR 14 crores, which is a growth of 57% over last year. Figures for YTD March 2025 period are the following. Revenue for the YTD period was INR 4,977 crores against last year's INR 4,344 crores, with a growth of 14%. In terms of value, revenue growth for YTD period was INR 633 crores. EBITDA for the period was INR 325 crores, and its percentage to revenue was 6.5% as compared to last year's INR 240 crores, which was 5.5% on revenue. EBITDA amount came across a growth of INR 84 crores, which is a growth of 35% year-on-year. EBITDA growth is attributable to higher revenue. This is the moderator here. Mr. Goswami, sir, can you use your handset mode, please? Your voice is not very clear. I am only talking in the handset only. Okay, this is a little better now, sir. Please go ahead. Revenue for the YTD period is INR 4,977 crores against last year's INR 4,344 crores, with a growth of 14%. In terms of value, revenue growth for YTD period was INR 633 crores. EBITDA for the period was INR 325 crores, and its percentage to revenue was 6.5% as compared to last year's INR 240 crores, which was 5.5% on revenue. EBITDA amount came across a growth of INR 84 crores, which is a growth of 35% year-on-year. EBITDA growth is attributable to higher revenue, which fixed expenditure maintained behind budget. PBT for YTD period was INR 171 crores, which was 3.4% on revenue as compared to last year's INR 90 crores, which was 2.1% on revenue. Growth in PBT was INR 81 crores, and in terms of percentage, the growth was 90%. PAT for the period was INR 129 crores, which was 2.6% on revenue in comparison with last year, INR 69 crores, which was 1.6% on revenue. Growth in PAT was 87%, and value growth was INR 60 crores over last year. With this, I will request to start the question and answer session. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have a first question from the line of Shreyansh Jain from Swan Investments. Please go ahead. Hello. Yes, Shreyansh, please go ahead. Yeah. My first question is, when I look at your washing machines business, that has been a little bit weaker than RAC is. Just want some sense on how are we looking at that product category, sir? How is the industry doing? Just some sense on that. The industry in front loader has been stagnant. Overall, if you see, in the addressable market, we have gained a share of around 1.5%-2%. The fact of the matter is the industry has not been growing. Particularly up to 10 kg, there was a degrowth observed. There is a shift towards high-end. Overall, if you see the industry growth in terms of front loader has not been there. Okay. Sir, from what we understand, 50% of the market and about 15%-20% is about semi-automatic and top load. I think we don't do semi-automatic, and we are slightly weaker on the top load side. Any chance- Yeah, please continue. I am trying to understand, do we, going forward, plan to enter semi-automatic in a big way? Top load as a category has been growing at 15%-20%, is what we understand from the channel, and we were largely a late entrant in that category. Do you think we would need some kind of push to actually capture market share in those two categories? In top loaders, after the launch of the new series, which we launched last year, our growth in, say, fourth quarter was around 27% against the industry growth of, as rightly said by you, of 15%-16%. We have again gained around 1.5%-2% market share in that category. For us, the range of top loader, fully automatic, have started moving. Month on month, we are able to sustain good volume. It may be good volume, but there is a lot of scope in this, and we intend to tap that market. With regard to semi-automatics, we do not have any intent to get into that market, that segment. Sir, there is a comment in your presentation where we are saying customers are upgrading to higher capacity machines, and companies are actually offering higher capacity machines at similar price points or so, right? I am just trying to understand this whole comment and your hiring of A&M for cost cutting. Do we envisage a situation where gross margins now will actually tend to be lower versus historical gross margins? I think one of your previous calls, you had also mentioned that our products are over-engineered slightly versus competition. In all of this, how do we look at gross margins for the washing machines bit going forward? Kartik, you can answer that. Yeah. The gross margins are similar to what it was earlier. It has not reduced in spite of the pricing issues. But as far as A&M is concerned, our project is on track. We started on 15th February. The idea banks have increased substantially. What we expect is that out of total INR 200 crore cost reduction in material cost, approximately INR 80 crore will come in our P&L in FY 2026. What? Sorry, I lost you. Hello? INR 70 crore to INR 80 crore out of total INR 200 crore cost innovation in material cost, which will come over next 18 months. INR 70 crore to INR 80 crore will come in P&L in FY 2026. Okay. Sir, just- No, Kartik, his question is, what are you doing to increase GP? Yeah. Okay. To increase gross margin, we are working on three fronts. One is sales volume increase, which is being already done by the sales team. Second is we are trying to increase the MOP in the market. There are areas where there is opportunity to increase the market which is the selling price. We are also working on reducing scheme payouts. And third thing is we are working towards reducing bill of material cost. Okay. So all of this 200 actually should come from COGS or do you think there is some bit of leverage on the employee cost and the other expenses line item? Kartik, can you please explain to him? We have discussed this point. You have only presented it to me. There are various items you are working on, one of which is material costs. Please tell him clearly. The figure is minimum INR 200 crores. We expect much more. This is being worked on with Alvarez & Marsal. One of the investors itself has told us, "Why aren't you giving it to an outsider? Why try and do it internally?" The internal project took We have actually wasted time by not going to an outsider faster. Now that we've gone to Alvarez & Marsal, the things are being clearly laid out by them and our team, which is working as a joint team. Minimum INR 200 crores we expect to get. I think we'll get much, much more. Out of the INR 200 crores, around INR 80 crores should come in by 31st of March. This is on material cost. Kartik, can you inform them, what are you doing on fixed cost? Yeah. What are you doing on other costs? Explain to them item-wise so that they are clear. Okay. The second point is on indirect costs. We are working on freight and warehouse cost optimization. Today, freight is almost 3% of our cost. We are working on route optimization, reducing the number of warehouses, space reduction through this. Just tell him how much. How much are you expecting from each point? Just list that. Yeah. Through this project. Through this project, we are expecting to reduce the cost by almost INR 20 crores. Apart from that, we have made a team to reduce the fixed cost the way we have made a material cost reduction team along with A&M. Now we will have an internal team to work on fixed costs, and our aim is to reduce fixed costs by INR 6 crore per month. Currently, our fixed cost is around INR 75 crore per month. Our aim is to reduce it by INR 6 crore per month, which will start coming in by end of quarter 2. Okay. That helps. Thanks a lot. Sir, my second question is on the AC business. Now that we've hit about INR 900 odd crores of annual run rate in AC, what kind of traction, I mean, the kind of confidence you have in the category for ourselves and for the next 2-3 years, should we actually look at strong double digits and INR 1,200-INR 1,500 crore kind of a target? Secondly, can you help us with the volumes that we would have done in Q4 or for the full year just in the RAC business, sir? Mr. Mathur, can you please state the question? Mr. Mathur? What is the question again? They are asking the volume of AC of Q4 and what are the- Am I audible? Kartik, you can answer, no? Kartik, you can answer. Yeah. On volume, I will answer. During the quarter in IFB brand, our sales was 130,000, and in OEM, our volume was 53,000. In IFB brand, as far as volume is concerned, there was a 52% growth. In brand, since the base was less, the growth was high. In OEM, the She's not available at the tone the growth was high. Kartik, tell again. That was quarter 4 figures. Okay. I will repeat. Quarter 4 we did 52% in brand. Sorry, quarter 4, we grew by 52%, and in quarter 4, we sold 1.30 lakh plus ACs in brand and around 52,000 in OEM with a growth of almost 100% because the base was low. That is what it is, and we were able to gain some percentage of share in the market. How much volumes would we have done for the year? Because I think we were targeting about 4.5 lakh to 5 lakh AC sales in 2025. So how much have we ended the year with? We have touched the volumes which we were targeting. Okay. What is the outlook for the next two years for this business? One minute, sir. One minute. Ranjan Mohan, they asked a question. Sure. What is the volume you got in? Why don't you answer the question? Right, sir. In all the 4 lakh air conditioners- March 31, how much did we do brand? How much did we do OEM? Just answer. It's a simple question. One second. I am asking. Sir, we have done 342,000 AC IFB brand and 61,000 OEM. What is the total, Kartik? Yeah, 400,000. Total was 4 lakhs. We did 4 lakh What is the target for We do not give any guidance, so we cannot give target for the year, but we are expecting robust growth for this year. Okay. And sir, last question is on the ref bit. So in the presentation we are targeting, we said about 7.3 lakh units for the year. So ideally that is about a 50,000-60,000 run rate for the month. So 7.3 lakhs, where have we said that? In the presentation from 2.5, we target 7.3. Okay. I am just trying to understand, that is a run rate of about 50,000-60,000 a month, and historically we have been able to do 35,000 a month. How confident are we about? Historically, we have done less than 35,000 a month. If you see, I think from the month of Feb, March, April, May, we have done more than 35,000 a month. We touched close to 50,000 on a few months, and we are by and large confident of this. Okay, sir. All right. That helps. Thank you, and all the best. Our problem if you see is that AC is doing better, ref is doing better. Currently, FL sales stagnated. That has become the problem. Thank you. We will take our next question from the line of Anand Mundra from Sure Health. Yeah. Good evening, sir. Sir, I wanted to understand this INR 180 crore or INR 200 crore of cost reduction. Why it cannot be done fully in FY 2026? Any specific reason for that? Yes, because what happens is, when you go for material cost down, certain things need time for validation. So certain validation takes a lot of time. So we cannot just replace something with something else without a proper engineering process and validation. And that takes time. So it will happen slowly and by on run rate basis, it may be much higher by Q4 of FY 2026 in terms of saving? By the run rate, yes, it should be higher. Okay. And sir, what is the profit and loss of our AC segment for FY 2025? FY 2025, AC has made Kartik, I think you can give the figures because it's all out now. It's a bit of positive. Yeah. It is a positive 1.7. But in FY 2025, FY 2026, our expectation is we do much, much better. Now that we have turned the corner from loss to marginal profit, we now need to take it to a much, much better financial level. Okay. Sir, if I remember correctly, in FY 2024, the losses were much more than INR 70 crore-INR 80 crore annually. In FY 2024. Yeah. EBITDA, FY 2024 loss in AC. Yeah, correct. Yes. AC loss was significant. If I observe that our profitability in other home appliances segment have really reduced in FY 2025, is that a right assumption? Yes, because in FY 2025, what has happened is, material cost went up in FL, et cetera, which sort of took us by surprise. FL volume did not rise to the desired extent. FL volume did not go up. AC volume went up, which is a lower margin thing, and there we got into a problem. Okay, noted, sir. Sir, what is your profit and loss of refrigerator segment in FY 2025? FY 2025, refrigerator EBITDA. Refrigerators were EBITDA positive. It was FY 2024, FY 2025, refrigerator was EBITDA positive as compared to last year's loss. I am not giving the figure here, but it is EBITDA positive, FY 2024, FY 2025. Okay. That is nice to know. Sir, given the fact that both the new segments have become profitable, and overall we expect to do some cost saving in FY 2026, do you think there is a possibility we may hit 10% EBIT margin or EBITDA margin sometime some next year? As I had said, this is Bikramjit Nag here. As I had said quite some time back, and we are not at all happy that we are not able to achieve the double-digit margin as yet. But the cost reduction programs we've taken across various heads, leading with material cost, fixed cost, logistics and warehouse, and other costs. Our total saving from all of these should exceed our belief is INR 350 crore. Now, significant portion, a lot of it should come in this year, but a lot of it will also come in in the first six months of next year. All of this will help us to move towards double digit, which includes fixing pricing in the market, which means reducing discounting and getting better outcome of our schemes. Okay. Noted, sir. All of this should lead to margin, required margin. So, sir, last question on CapEx. What is our guidance on CapEx for FY 2026? There are no new products which you are planning to enter, I guess, because we are already in all the large four segments. Yes. But the main CapEx will be on areas such as washing machine for 12 and 13 kilo washer. Okay. Maybe we go for 14 kilo also. We are not sure as yet. But in appliance division, CapEx is between INR 100 crores to INR 130 crores to be spread out. In engineering division, CapEx is also quite high. Normal CapEx would be around INR 45 crore. Then for new projects, for example, chain. Chain as a project for motorcycles, which we used to import from China. Now with the China BIS issues, et cetera, chain as a project will need to be brought into India. We have one year time to do this. Maybe we will get some extension also. But assuming we have to do this, that will entail about INR 40 crore, INR 40 crore to INR 50 crore at the most. Then we have the electronics manufacturing which is with Titan. We will do some things with Titan. Titan, as you know, we are doing projects for some global mobile phone companies, et cetera. We have got some contracts from there that will entail some CapEx. So overall CapEx for engineering as a result of this chain, et cetera, has also gone up. Okay. I missed one item. INR 120 crores of which segment for washing machine for White Goods? Some for AC. About 20 CR, 25 CR for AC. I think Mr. Govindaraj, about 25, 30 CR for AC, balance for washer, right? And some routine CapEx is there. Correct, sir. Maintenance. INR 50 crores for washing machine and then INR 35 crores for air conditioner. Out of the balance for routine CapEx, right? Yes, sir, INR 120. Yeah. Noted, sir. Thank you, sir. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Vivek Kumar from Bestpals Research & Advisory LLP. Please go ahead. Sir, am I audible? Yes, please. Go ahead. Sir, I was just thinking about your company from competition perspective. Because you as a promoter would be having some assumptions before introducing so many products when so many other companies are trying to get the same market. How do we plan to achieve market shares in AC and ref where we are already not the forefront, and how do you get the market share in the distribution? If you can help us understand your assumptions of why. I understand you have done very well in washing machines and microwaves. How should we think that you will be able to Actually, if you see from the volume perspective, what has surprised us is the traction we are getting now in ref, which is more than AC in some ways. We expect very shortly ref to stabilize at 55,000, 60,000 a month. In ref, we are now only playing up to 285 liter, and soon we will launch the 326 liter or something. The higher end, we are still not there. So ref we really see very good potential. Our CapExes are only done up to 326 liter. And we expect that this thing of around 60,000 a month, we should be able to do very soon, which will make financials of that company strong. More importantly, in AC, we believe our market share is still very low. Therefore, your question on how do we increase market shares. It is only by ensuring that our people in every town are selling to every dealer in that town. There is no other way to do this business. It's a town-by-town business, dealer-by-dealer business. And the dealer counter has to be manned very well. Our overall effort to man a counter properly to sell washing machine, AC, refrigerator, microwave. This whole management effort to get this done is not as good as what it should be. It's not as efficient, sorry. It's not as efficient as it should be. In LG, Samsung, it's very efficiently done. They are the only two companies which really do it well. And they are the companies we should actually benchmark in terms of efficiency of manning. This is something we need to work on. And we see that wherever the refrigerator and AC is being placed, a counter where it's placed and manned properly, we are able to do well. Now, suppose in a counter, instead of four or five ACs, we've only put in two ACs and two refrigerators. Neither the two ACs sell, neither the two refrigerators sell. You have to have the whole, the entire range or at least substantial part of the range for the customer to get attracted. This process is weak in IFB. This process has to be strengthened, and a lot of time is going into manning properly in order to do this. Now, I know we've said this quarter after quarter, year after year, but it has not happened the way it should happen. My question is exactly that. Let's say you get the whole range and you man, but there are other companies also there. What is that in your assumption which is giving you confidence? Is it market is so big for many players that we have room to- The market is big. I think the market is big, but I think IFB's history of being known for quality is helping. Wherever we are able to place and the person is good in the counter, the dealer is supportive because of quality, and the counter salesperson is able to explain IFB's quality proposition, value proposition to the customer also. That is helping. Is it any regions that you are doing well and any regions you are not doing well? Or is it across the same, or at least there are a few regions where you have got this manning and range correct and you want to replicate it so you could be going- Yes, I think the region where we were historically strong but now weak because of manning issues is south. South is the largest market. We need to do a lot better in south. I think it will take another 2-3 months to fix South. I think South is- South is at least per capita while it is 50% higher than the rest of India. So if you neglect South, it will be a big market. No. In South we had some management issues where we exited some people, et cetera. We have got some vacancies there. Those need to be filled up faster. Sir, is there any area where you are very strong and doing well, from where the growth is coming from? I think we are doing much, much better in North compared to South, for example. But in North, for example, if you take U.P. as a market, the ways we should be doing refrigerator, AC and all in U.P., which is a very large state, et cetera, where we should really play the key role. We've not done well in U.P., but we've done much better in Haryana and Rajasthan and parts of Delhi, and we've done better in Chandigarh region. Which is Chandigarh, Punjab. We've done well there, but we've not done well in U.P. Sir, sorry, but you are saying the same problem. You only been mentioning that this problem we have from few years. Is it surmountable or are you facing some structural issues that you are prolonging. This is getting prolonged for us, this manning and the No, there's no structural issue per se. I think we've not got the manning that we need. And what we've realized is, wherever we are able to put in our own home-grown trained people, we are doing better. Whenever we are taking people from outside, we are having issues. But so many people internally also, we don't have to take up leadership roles. We are having an issue there to match this. And you think it will get solved for over a year or so, or it will take more time? It will take few years before we solve this. No. Honestly, I hope this does not take too much time. We cannot afford this time. We are already delayed. We are, for example, now uplifting people to leadership roles, even some within a state, let us say inside of the state whole. State head. Some people we are giving part of a state, et cetera, who have been with us for a while. These decisions we are moving faster on now, I would say that. I think this will have a long-term, very beneficial effect on the company to grow its own talent pool. But we have to- IFB we can say Sorry, sir. Go ahead, sir. Sorry. No, that is it. That is it from my side. IFB, we can say that AC, refrigerator, microwave and washer, this would be the categories, right? There will be no new categories in the short term. No new categories now. We are not thinking any new categories now. Correct. What would be the EBITDA margin over three, four years, sir, or you are not thinking that far as of now? You are planning EBITDA margin- No, we don't think that far. But our first thing is to hit double-digit EBITDA. We would like to sell significant part of capacity for AC and for ref. Sir, you have any internal guidance? Can you give guidance on the overall growth over three, four years, sir? Not a next year growth rate in terms of scale, if not EBITDA margin. No, we don't give any guidance per se. With AC, ref, et cetera, I think anything over 25% is a minimum for us. 25% sales growth, right? You're not talking about the EBITDA now. Growth. 25% growth in revenue. EBITDA, as I said, our internal thing is 10%. So our internal thing is double digit, and we are not moving away from that. We have not achieved it is another point. Thank you very much, sir, for detailed answers. Thank you very much. All the best, sir. Thank you. Thank you. We will take the next question from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor & Company. Please go ahead. Namaskar, sir, and thank you for this opportunity, and thank you for a very detailed discussion. Sir, just putting the attention to the engineering segment. If you could just give us some understanding what factors firstly attributed to the improved set of performance quarter-on-quarter basis also and also on an yearly basis for the engineering segment. And how is this going to shape up for the coming year? If you see the engineering segment, I think what sort of surprised us is that in Q4 we never did well. In Q4 the growth was only 2%, 3%. John, the Q4 growth was how much? 2%. 2% was Q4 growth. So Q4 we got hit badly. Margin was still okay. We could control costs, et cetera. We could do some pass-through, et cetera. April, May has been better. Hopefully June will be okay. But you know, the division needs to grow by at least 20% a year minimum from its internal, from whatever we have now. Then we have these greenfield projects on chain and electronics supplying to Titan and M&A, which we've spoken about, but still not been able to conclude. All these three plus the 20% growth or so that we expect because we have capacities. It's a marketing issue I think if these are done, engineering should have robust growth going forward. Okay. Sir, what are our average utilization levels for this financial year as well as for FY 2024? FY 2024, well, let me put it differently. Yes, sir. I think for fine blanking business as such, I think we could still grow by about 15%-18% with existing capacities, at least. We need to add some capacities for the future and for safety also. Safety meaning because if capacities are running at 90%, et cetera, then we need another press and all of that. In the stamping division, we are already at capacity, by and large. Stamping division, I think capacity is INR 7 CR a month, and we are nearly there. Right, sir. Sir, you mentioned about the Titan part of the story and the chain segment. What kind of investment are we emphasizing? Again, what kind of asset turnover ratio we would be expecting once these two projects also go through? I think asset turnover ratio, as per our internal guidelines, should be minimum 2.5, but we expect more. Okay. And sir, when can we see that wrapping? Total cost, how much we are going to spend? INR 40 crore you said, I think so, for the chain and- Chain, we expect INR 30 CR-INR 40 CR, something like that. And Titan? It is being worked out now. We don't have the final cost as yet, but around that, we believe. As far as the electronic project goes- Yes I think it will be within about 20, 25 CR maximum. Okay. To start with. Yes. Just to put that there on the P&L part, sir, we find that for the loss on share of associate, that has been lowered for this year to 18 crore. If you could just explain how this category will move, especially the contribution from the- I think we expect refrigerator to be profitable, and that should fix it substantially. Correct, Soumitra and Kartik? Yes, yes. Share of loss was INR 18 crore loss. Correct, Pant. As compared to last year, INR 24.6 crore. Refrigeration business for the year FY 2024, 2025, has already turned EBITDA positive. Naturally, this loss amount will be going down drastically in 2025, 2026, we estimate. But this is dependent on the volume. Yes 60,000 a month with the right mix. Yes Ref would have turned the corner. But as I said, one issue is there that we need to be in higher end segment of ref. So that planning is being done, whether we can do CKD, SKD, et cetera. Those things we are looking into also, 400 liters plus. Okay. Two small points. Firstly, this 200 crore P&L flow through on account of savings are all towards the home appliance segment only, or these efficiencies are also factoring in about the engineering segment? The 360 total program which you mentioned. This is home appliances program only. Engineering segment will embark on a different program for cost down. We've still not finalized that. They will also need to do a similar thing. That point is correct. What we are discussing internally at a strategic level is whether the cost down program should be given to the same outside team, which is Alvarez & Marsal, or should we look for someone else. That's the only discussion we are having internally, but we'll take a view on this in the next 15, 20 days. Okay. Lastly, sir, in the cash flow, we have seen that we have paid higher taxes. These are pertaining to the current year only? I think so our tax payment in the category income tax has been closer to INR 45 crore for this year. It is a higher operating profit only? Yeah. Please. Our tax percentage is 25.168%. If you see our P&L, the percentage stands at that level only if you compare with the net revenue. Whatever the PBT amount is there, if you apply 25%, it will be coming to INR 43, INR 44 crore. We have not paid anything extra. Whatever you are talking about that we have paid extra tax, it is not like that. Okay, sir. Thank you for all the detailed answers, sir. All the best to the team, sir, for answering it in detail. Thank you. Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Jagvir Singh from Share Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hello. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. My question is related to this summer season, because now air conditioner is very significant to our revenues overall in the company. Now in the north and east, April and May month is very weak in the summer. What is your take on this season in 2 months? Ranjan, answer. For us, April, as I shared earlier, the last quarter was very good. We grew by 52%. April also, we were able to continue the momentum. For us, we were able to grow marginally in April, but we could see an impact in the month of May, where the industry has dipped to the tune of around 35 odd percent. Overall, if we see the secondaries for IFB, we could see the momentum is still not as bad as the industry is moving. We anticipate that whatever shortfall we had in the month of May, we will be able to cover it up in the next 2 to 3 months time. From November, that’s why someone earlier asked us, are we revising our figures, et cetera? No, we are not. We'll be targeting the volumes which we have projected. Okay, so you are saying for the whole year you will achieve the targeted revenues in the AC segment? Yeah. We are at a very small market share. We have much more to do. From which region we got the maximum sales in the AC segment? For us, North was very strong. North also at many places, we have even touched more than 8% to 9% market share. The things in North are moving well. East also did well in first quarter, but the fourth quarter was not that good. What we feel is North, East, West, Southern part, if you see towards Kerala, we did very well. This is how it was. So sir, my last question related to the IFB retail exclusive stores. What is the strategy pertaining to this and how many stores right now we have and next 2, 3 years exclusive? Currently we have around 487 to 500 odd stores. Our expansion plan for this financial year is to take it to around 700+. This is something which we made some changes in our leadership. If I see last 3 months or 4 months have been very good for IFB Point. Our contribution to the national sales have also gone up from IFB Point. Our thing is we’ll be touching around 750 odd IFB Point by the end of this financial year. Till now, what is our experience with the IFB stores like customer experience, or this is better than earlier we are doing mostly with the distribution side through the distribution? No, IFB Point, it’s our own store, and the customer is able to see the complete range in the store. That one thing itself gives them much more confidence. What we feel is when a customer walks into IFB Point, we try to give him a real good experience. That is what is giving us good results. The last question is we are targeting double-digit EBITDA margin in the next 2 years, or it will take more time and what type of EBITDA margin we can see this in FY 2026? We expect double-digit EBITDA margin. I mean, our expectation was we would have already achieved it, but we have not. So hopefully, we will achieve it soon. It cannot be after a year or 2. Cannot be after 2 years, it is a trial. Okay. Thank you, sir. This is from my side. Thank you. Thank you. We will take our next question from the line of Nitin from NV Alpha Fund. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thanks for taking my question. My first question is, when I look at our washer segment, since the past 2, 3 years, we have sort of been stagnant at around INR 1,700-INR 1,800 crores of revenue. How do we intend to sort of get out of this range and bring growth back? Can we expect this number to grow from next year? We expect washer number to grow this year, and we are doing everything possible. As I said, this issue of getting management right state by state is just taking too long. There is no other way to fix this rather than getting management right state by state, town by town. Right. We expect this to grow. Our product range by and large is okay now. Only thing we don't have is the 12 and 13 kilo, which will take time. That will not come in before March. We don't see significant volume there as yet. There is volume, but it's not as much as. It is not a material impact thing per se in terms of volume. It's not materially impactful as yet if we do the other things well. Right, sir. We expect this number to grow in FY 2026? Yes Right. And sir, my second question, I needed some clarification. I think I heard we were expecting a minimum of INR 200 crores in cost savings, but internally your target is it can go north of INR 300 crores also. For material cost. Did I hear it correct? For material cost. Right. So did I hear it correct? The number is 300 plus or is it 200 only? No, we are saying at least 200 plus we will get. But our internal expectation is much more. But for now, we are only sticking to 200 plus. Got it. Whatever this team, which is Alvarez & Marsal and our team, and we put some of our best people into this full-time, they are doing nothing else now. Actually, this was a point which one of the investors in one of these calls had told me that it is much better if you do it with an outside consultant instead of trying doing everything yourself. I thought we could do it ourselves, but I was mistaken there. I think we should have moved faster on this with an outside firm. Right, sir. Got it, sir. That is it from my side. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We will take our next question from the line of Majid Ahmed from PinPoint Capital. Please go ahead. Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. Am I audible to you? Majid, can you use your handset mode, please? Your audio is not very clear. Okay, sir. Am I audible now? Yes, please go ahead. Yes, sir. Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. My first question is, sir, what is the EBITDA margin you may look in the AC segment? Can you give some sort of numbers on that, sir? You are breaking even any sort of EBITDA, if not PBT. I think EBITDA for AC should be much more than whatever we closed 31st March with. As I said, for the company to achieve double-digit EBITDA, AC also has to do significantly well. Yes. It will be much, much higher than the present level. Can you give me a range, at least any numbers or any sort of range? No, I wouldn't like to give a range, but I'd say minimum 5% plus. Minimum 5% plus. Okay. 5% plus we should do. Got it, sir. For washing machine, in terms of your front load, what is your strategy in particular to grow that in coming 2-3 years? I think we should significantly grow market share. We are doing the right things, which is the basics. We are trying to do it right. I think to grow market share, IFB for it has to be much more well looked after. And every town, the dealer management has to be better, which is only a function of getting management team in that town right. That's a lot of day-to-day rigorous work in terms of getting things right, and I think we need to do a better job at that, which is what we said. The processes are on. They are being implemented. Rigor has to be improved. Got it, sir. So to speed up the management restructuring and everything, do you have any sort of incentives for that to speed up any sort of internal thing that you're doing? Yes, we are doing all that. We are doing all that. Yes. Answer is yes. Okay, sir. All the very best, sir. All the very best. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to management for closing comments. Over to you, sir. Thank you very much for participating in this call, and we will meet again after Quarter 1. Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of IFB Industries Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.