Hi, good afternoon, everyone, and a very warm welcome to Ipca Laboratories Q2 FY 2023 post-earnings call hosted by DAM Capital Advisors Limited. On the call to represent today Ipca Laboratories management, we have Mr. AK Jain, Joint Managing Director, and Mr. Harish Kamath, Corporate Counsel and Company Secretary. I'll hand over the call to the management team to make the opening comments, and then we'll take it forward from there.
Thanks, Nitin and DAM Capital Advisors for organizing this call. Good afternoon to all participants, and thanks for taking out time and joining us for FY 2023 Q2 FY 2023 earnings call. Today's earnings call and discussions and answer given may include some forward-looking statement based on our current business expectations that must be viewed in conjunction with risk that pharmaceutical industry faces. Our actual future financial performance may differ from what is projected and perceived. You may take your own judgment on the information given during the call. Domestic formulation business for the quarter, 10% growth. Domestic anti-malarial business has shown a decline of almost around 19% for the quarter. Ipca is second fastest growing in IPM among the top 20 players in May-September 2022.
We have gained 3 ranks over 2018, and now we are 17th player, ranked 17th in IPM. Most therapy growth is better than the Indian pharmaceutical market May-September 2022, except the cardiovascular therapy, where we have reorganized and restructured our business and built a strong focus. The team seems stabilizing now, and we will see much better results in future. The market share has improved to 1.86% in last 4 years from 1.59% in 2018. For Q2 FY 2023, our market share has further improved to around 1.91% overall of the pharmaceutical market. Our export promotional business has delivered a growth of almost around 13% for the quarter. Export generic business, including institutional, has delivered almost around 8% growth for the quarter.
Institutional business per se has delivered around 12% growth and generics has delivered around 4% growth for the quarter. Our active pharmaceutical business has declined by around 15% for the quarter, mainly due to the lower demand in Latin America and Asia and pricing pressures witnessed in this business. Overall, for the year, like, API business is expected to deliver a negative growth of around 2% for the whole of the financial year 2023. Material cost to income is at around 32.83% for Q2 FY 2023, as against 33.09% for the same period last year. There is improvement of around 0.26%. We are seeing the softening trend in prices of intermediate and starting material.
Some of, like solvents, APIs, your aluminum foil, plastic, PVC, PVDC. The paper marginal cost has gone up for paper and, even the glass product, that has slightly gone up. Overall, on other expenditure side, there is an overall increase of almost around 23%, for the quarter. This increase is mainly on account of two heads. One is energy cost, for the quarter is almost higher by almost around INR 16 crores, because of increase in the overall coal prices, of LSHS prices and electricity rate revisions by the state electricity boards and all. Marketing costs has significantly gone up.
The marketing cost has also gone up, on account of overall increase in the field strength, significant increase in field strength in the current financial year in Q1, Q2. EBITDA margins has declined to around 21.04% for the quarter on standalone accounts basis, as against 23.05% in same period last financial year. Having given the broad numbers, now I request participants to ask question.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. If you have a question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad and wait for your turn to ask the question. If you would like to withdraw your request, you may do so by pressing star and one again. I repeat. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. We will wait for a moment while the question queue is assembled. First question comes from Nikhil Mathur from HDFC Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good evening, everyone. My first question is on the RM front. You alluded to that RM prices are kind of softening. So can you give some indication on the key RMs, what are the prices you take and what benefit it could have, how much decline have you witnessed? How far are we up from, let's say, one year or two years back?
I would say that almost around on material to material-wise somewhere there are almost around 50%-40% decrease somewhere around 18%-20% decrease and somewhere around 8%-9% decrease on the main raw material we are currently consuming. That's overall on RM side. Broadly on API side let's say the products like Paracetamol and all they're almost around 17%-20% kind of decreases are there. Product like Erythromycin or Pantoprazole or Diclofenac we consume they're around 10%-15% kind of overall decreases there on those kind of materials. If you look at the solvent prices. Toluene prices has gone up by almost around 26%-22%.
Overall other solvents like, say, acetone, IPA, methanol, MDC, it's around 9%-17% overall decline in all those materials. That's the overall range which we have. Like on metal prices, if you look at aluminum foil from this year to a year back, around INR 300 now comes to around INR 200 a level. Alu-Alu foil from INR 400 to almost around close to INR 320 kind of. A little less than INR 320 rupee. Or maybe it's the caps we use on bottle from INR 400 to INR 325, that's the kind of thing. Plastic PVC, similar kind of trend, trends are there around almost from somewhere [audio distortion] kind of reductions are there. Those kind of prices trends are there.
On energy front also, if you look at the coal used to be almost around INR 15/kg. Now it has come to around INR 12.9/kg. The oil per metric ton from INR 70,000 has come to around INR 44,000-45,000 rupees level. That's the kind of decline is there. Somewhere like, say, what we are using is biofuel, those prices have gone up from maybe around INR 7/kilo to almost around INR 8.7-8.8 rupees per kilo. It's somewhere prices have gone up, majority of the prices are coming down now. Yes.
Right. I mean, if I look at the mix, the mix will improve right on last couple of quarters basis. The prices have come up. Why is the gross margin still very short of what you used to do just before COVID?
Let's say the gross margin there is an improvement, but there is always a time lag because you keep on buying every month, five months, unless the prices are going down. You have inventory. First you consume. We follow the FIFO method. That impact, better impact will come now in the coming quarters. There, in first quarter level, when we were consuming material, the prices were there in inventory was very, very high compared to what is prevailing today. What we bought in first quarter compared to the second quarter inventory, but first quarter, whatever buyings are there, that getting consumed in second quarter. That process is on. I think overall impact will start coming in the subsequent months.
In fact, has already started coming in, yeah. Little bit.
Okay. Got it, sir. Second question is around India. Can you help me with the growth ex of anti-malarial in 2Q ?
Excluding anti-malarials, our growth is almost around 13%. Yeah.
Sir, I mean, if I remember correctly, almost 1,200 MRs have been added in last two, three quarters. Why isn't the ultimate part of those MR additions yet reflecting in numbers?
I didn't get you.
My point is that the second question, it would have a component of obviously volume and prescription increase as well. It doesn't seem that the kind of MR additions that you have done, almost 30% increase over the last 2-3 quarters, and the prescription uptake is not yet visible in domestic sales numbers. Any reason why?
Domestically we are already among the top 20 company, we are the second highest growing company. The market growth is very bad. We are growing around 1.5x the market growth overall. Whenever you recruit the new people, it takes time for them to become productive. It take almost around 2 years' time for them to start giving relevant to the company. An initial 2, 3 months goes in their trainings and overall induction in the field and all that. They don't become immediately productive. Right now in second quarter, they have the burdens on the as far as the cost is concerned, there are hardly any productivity is expected. It's only now some kind of impact will start coming in. Overall, we will not be recovering costs.
It will take almost around 2 years' time to even recover their costs. From third year onwards, they will start contributing profit to the company.
Okay. One last question on this only. Can you quantify the extent of cost build up? I mean, how much of cost is sitting in a block today in the P&L on the MR additions and marketing initiatives that you alluded to?
No, we don't segregate the cost on new people and old people and all that. That doesn't happen. I'm telling you generally that's the trend.
Still sometimes, I mean, if 100 MRs have been added.
It takes around, I mean, overall cost increase only on account of addition of people will be anywhere between INR 120 crore to INR 150 crore for the whole of the year. People are not added at a time, so in this financial year itself, maybe around, it's around INR 100 crore kind of overall cost impact will be there for the whole of this financial year.
Okay.
On the new people addition during the year.
Okay. Thank you so much.
Thank you, sir. Next question comes from Surya Patra from PhillipCapital India Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Hello. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity, sir, and for delivering kind of okay results now, despite challenges. First question is on the, let's say, the U.K. market, where we have been re-registering all of our own sort of pre-order products which are only customer per name. What is the progress there and what is the annualized revenue rate that we have achieved so far for our own registration-based products?
See, first two quarters are impacted because of overall significant business around that time we had with ourselves, so that business is not there in first two quarters. From third quarter onwards, the business was hardly any. It may be around INR 9 crore-INR 10 crore of our distributor-related business. We will start seeing the good growth as far as the U.K. business is concerned in the second half of the year. Overall for the year, there will be marginal decline will be there in the business. The business progression has been very good. We have whatever product we have launched, we have got a good amount of market share on those kind of products. There are at least around 70 products under launch currently.
Including SKUs, it will be maybe more than around 20 products will be there on for the launch in the next second half of the year. We are seeing good traction coming on as far as the U.K. is concerned. Whatever products we have launched, we have had a good market share in those kind of products.
Sir, my second quest-
Yeah.
Yes, sir. My second question is, let's say on the API performance what we are seeing, there could be multiple reason could be Sartan also could be non-activation of the purified process , what we had filed for the recognition and all that. Two things here, sir. Could you give us some sense of what is the outlook for your API business here on the export market? That is one. Sartan as a category, what is your outlook there? Because there are intense competition, that is what we are witnessing from other people who are claiming about qualitative product compared to the earlier product series.
As far as the API business is concerned, this impact is mostly not on account of Sartan. Sartan has impacted, but it's only very small. The major geographies where the impact has come is one in Latin America and one is Asia. These are the two geographies where the major impact we have seen is basically because of slowdown in the demand and customers postponing of the order executions. So that's one of the major reason. Also there is a significant because there is a slowness in demand since there is also a significant pricing pressure. That is also there. If on that account there is a overall decline in API business.
If you look at geographically, it's only the two geographies where we have done well in European markets. We have done well in other like CIS markets we did well. India business also was good, but it's only the LATAM and your Asia business that has given us a decline of almost around INR 50 crore of business in API industry too. In overall for the year, the overall API business there will be some recovery. We see that overall for the year API business may show around 50% kind of decline. There will be some recovery which is expected in the second half of the year. Yeah.
Okay. Sartan as a category, sir?
Sartan as a category has a significant pricing pressure. That's also resulting in the overall lower business. That's not the only reason. Sartan has not done that bad in the quarter. Sartan decline is very, very small. It's overall decline is there and because of low demand and pricing pressure.
Okay. Sir, regarding institutional business, considering the kind of launch of anti-malarial vaccines in various areas and all that, in the pricing pressure that is there for the institutional business, generally what outlook comes with this for your institutional business going ahead?
Vaccine has not made any significant impact as far as the anti-malarial business is concerned in the market. Anyway, with the vaccine, some kind of anti-malarial drug will also need to be given. That's not likely to have impact. In the current financial year, I'll say that this is a year where the lease tendering was done and all that. Because of that, there is some kind of slowdown in ordering. That's the reason we have said that this year, overall their anti-malarial business may not grow. As such also, we don't foresee a very great long-term, let's say, or medium-term increase in anti-malarial business.
Because by and large, because of all these climatic conditions and all, anti-malarial as a category itself is not doing that well. In India, this business has significantly declined. Currently, let's say, this businesses are happening in the other markets, but we don't know what kind of impact that may have in future. So we are not projecting a significant growth as far as this category of business is concerned. On institutional business, we are there only on anti-malarials. So that's the kind of scenario over a longer period of time. Yeah.
Okay. Just last question, sir, from my side. About Dewas, whether the second unit has commissioned the new second unit. What is the utilization of the first unit? Obviously you have already indicated that Dewas facilities will be contributing significantly starting next year. What is the current status of that? Also if you can say something about the progress on in the Ratlam side.
Dewas, we have planned to validate almost around 10 APIs. That validation program has started. After starting of validation program, we have to do around 6 months stability and then, the each market regulatory filings would start happening. We have very recently started the first phase, we started some intermediate business from unit one for our capital consumptions, so it did not contribute any kind of top line to the company. Now since that phase is over, we have started validating API. During the next 1 year time, almost around 10 APIs will be validated there. Filing will start from now at least around 6 months time, the first filing will start next phase from that side.
Thereafter, say at least 4, 5 filings happen. European authorities and other authorities will start, maybe after filing maybe 3, 4 months, 5 months after, at least some regulatory inspections should start, I think. Business will scale up only after that. We see that overall for one year, nothing meaningful contributions would come from this side. In the time that we file all the products and till the time regulatory inspections of this side happen.
Okay. Sure, sir. Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Next question comes from Kunal Randeria from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Kunal here. On the API business, just to probe a bit more, can you tell us what exactly is the issue? I mean, why is there lower demand, or why are customers postponing their orders? Is it because they anticipate better pricing in the coming months, or what exactly is happening there?
India itself, market has started having overall lower growth. Similar kind of trend is also there in other markets. That there is a demand slowdown is there in the market. That's the factor which is contributing.
Okay. Demand slowdown. Okay. Thank you. I think in the past-
Okay. Folks are not growing to the level which they were growing earlier. Yeah.
Sir, this is happening across the world, or is there any specific market you would like to call out?
I think, the greater impact we have seen is, one is in LATAM and another is in Asia.
Got it, sir. Okay, sure. The second question is on the branded business. It might have been a bit lumpy. Branded generics, which is your export business. It's been a bit lumpy, perhaps because of the Ukraine issue. Should we consider this quarter's case or was there an element of some channel selling also happening here?
What happened is, as we were talking earlier in call, that, when Ukraine war started, we were not sure because currency was at very, very high level. At what level, it will get settled and all that, and if you start selling aggressively around that time, that will result in a huge amount of losses. Because ruble dollar around that time practically was more than double than the current level. That was the scenario earlier. We didn't make that kind of shipment. We significantly reduced the overall inventories in those markets with the stockists and all, with our distributors and all. When that started stabilizing around 60, 70 level, I think we started making shipments.
First quarter there was some kind of overall decline there, but not on account of sales in that market, on account of overall reduction in inventories in that market. Some of those inventories were replenished in this quarter. What we see this quarter, as far as the CIS market is concerned, because of higher shipments, it has almost around practically double the business, around 93% kind of growth. Our projection for the whole of the year in that market, the CIS market growth is around 15%, and we are on track.
Got it. Just last one. If I were to sort of take a 3-year view on your domestic business, how do you see the composition changing in the sense do you still expect pain to be the growth driver and its contribution to move up from, say, 50% to 60% or, you know, or all the other therapies should grow just as previously?
See, most of our therapies are growing except little because of this year we have reorganized our cardiac business, so that is having some kind of initial decline. Some lower growth, not decline. Lower growth is there on cardiac business compared to market. All other therapies we are growing faster than the market. The neurotherapies are all doing very well. Pain forms a significant part of our business. It's almost around 50% of the business is pain. Pain include both rheumatoid arthritis and osteoarthritis. In both segments we are in, let's say compared to the market growth, our growth has been significant, significantly. Practically around, if you look at, I'll just give you the numbers. One minute.
As far as the pain is concerned, I think overall market is growing around 12% and we are growing, I think, in September month, so it's first two quarters business, almost around 21% is the growth in the pain segment. Whereas if you look at the cardiac market, the market is growing by 7%, we have grown by 14.4%. As far as anti-infectives are concerned, market has grown by around 4%, we have grown by 5%. Dermatology market has grown by 3%, we have grown by 14%. On cough and cold and that kind of portfolio, market has grown by 12%, we have grown by 24%. On CNS segment, market growth was 9%, we have grown by 13%.
Urology market growth was 17%, we have grown by around 25%. Ophthal market growth was around 13%, we have grown by 21%. That's the kind of overall numbers we have as far as therapeutic wise is concerned. This number what we are talking is for IQVIA.
Got it. Just one last one. So there have been reports in the media since the last couple of months that the government is looking to ban a few Aceclofenac combinations. Just want to gather your thoughts on this.
There is no such report that market and government is looking to ban any kind of Aceclofenac. That's the wrong reading of the report. The report was saying that last quarter that it's on parliamentary question answer that the relating to one of our product which is there. Others are also there in that market. That has been the product which was earlier it was covered under that 300 some drugs which was covered under Madras High Court and then the government of India appointed the Kokate Committee, and Kokate Committee has gone into, and then thereafter the Drugs Technical Advisory Board has reviewed. Finally that combination is approved in the market. We have approval from DCGI of that combination.
Maybe almost around a year back that approval has come. With that approval, one rider was there that you need to generate some kind of data and give it to them, safety and efficacy data. Now, if you look at safety, millions and millions of people are every month receiving those kind of doses. There are no side effects. The question of anything going wrong on safety, efficacy data has not arrived. That's not the issue. We have submitted the protocol to the government, but the government is yet to approve the protocols.
Once the protocol approval and that's wherever protocols were to be approved for industry player, none of the player has got any kind of approval because the government is in COVID time, they have not approved any kind of thing and subsequently they are looking into it. Hopefully, there will be approval of protocol. It may take six months time or to generate those kind of data and submit to the government. Product approvals are already there in hand. Absolutely there are absolutely zero risk as far as that product is concerned.
Perfect, sir. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. I repeat, if you have a question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. Do wait for a moment while the question queue is processed. We're having a question from Amit Kadam from Canara Robeco Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, good evening, sir. Am I audible?
Yes, clearly.
Hi, sir. My question is on other expenses. I think you have partly explained also. I just want further clarity on it. This quarter we had other expenses of somewhere around INR 435 crore, which is sequentially INR 35 crore higher than quarter one. Of which you mentioned that INR 16 crore is related to the higher power cost. Sequentially there was INR 16 crore higher power cost. But the balance part is because of the marketing cost and promotional cost. Is it that fully related to that particular thing?
See, 95% of this increase in the cost on other expenditure is only because of these two heads. One is the fuels and power, and second one is marketing cost. Because of, let's say, once the COVID started opening up, during COVID time there was hardly any domestic travel and international travel. Travel cost has gone up. We have recruited almost around more than 1,200 people. Overall increase will be 1,500 people in the year, during the year. That traveling cost is also the part of it. And because petroleum prices have gone up there, overall traveling cost itself has gone up. Per kilometer rates and all those has moved up. People increase, travel cost increase and also promotional cost increase.
These are the main factors for overall increase in the overall. Some expenditures has gone up on analysis side because lot of these nitrosamine related purity testings and all, we have added a lot of equipment ourselves in the company. Some validation studies or some kind of method development studies and all which in order to get it faster, we are also using the outside services. That cost has little moved up. During COVID time, overall maintenance of the plants and all because agencies were not available and all that. Those activities has also gone up and therefore little repairs cost is high.
By and large, the marketing costs, which include field staff cost and travel cost and your power and energy cost. These are the major factors, which has increased your other expenditure.
Just an extension to this thing. How do we look at this cost, like INR 455 crore. How do we see this as a quarterly revenue going ahead? Like example, like power cost, which is like INR 16 crore, I think that it is subjected to how the coal price behave. The balance, which is marketing and everything, it may not be a complete temporary or one-off because some part is related to the increase in MR, that will continue. I just wanted to know what the sustainable and what is just like a may something which is temporary something transient and I think which would fade away. Just wanted to know the bifurcation so that will help me to properly gauge what is the sustainable OpEx and how do we see this going forward.
Thank you.
Normally, trends is of marketing cost is at that, the second quarter and third quarter it is at a higher level. First quarter and fourth quarter it is normally at lower level. I would not say that it is linearly it is going up or going down. It also depend because these are the two period where we have major domestic businesses coming in. Major spending also happens in this particular quarter. Second quarter and little lower in the third quarter. Fourth quarter it comes down significantly because lot of this kind of our domestic sales also little comes down in the fourth quarters because of lot of seasonality and other factors are there. Range of marketing cost in current year would remain high.
I would say that we have done the CAGR of that expenditure from 2019-2020, and net growth is around 10%. Compared to that, because a lot of these costs are looking higher because in later part of the year in COVID period, we have not spent that kind of money which was happening earlier. That's also one of the factors. From next financial year it will become normal cost increase of around 8%-10% kind of increase.
Is it like maybe for next year, whatever the base will be formed in FY 2023, from there, this numbers could just be growing at like 10% odd that is
Yeah, 8%-10%. Right. Yeah.
8-10. Okay. This particular thing with the seasonal volatility OpEx and this all coal price, hard to infer what will be the correct number, but it will broadly remain in this current range for the balance part of the year. It will be for most of the year for FY 2023.
Yes.
Thank you. Yeah, I'm done. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Next question comes from Chirag Dagli from DSP Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, what does the INR weakening mean for us?
Chirag, if you see that way, the second quarter realization of USD, for example, is actually lower than the price at which it is there today. Even at today's USD-INR rate also, I will benefit if it continue like this for another two quarters. My average realization for first half of the current year is USD less than $88.
If this remains where we are, then six months down the line we'll start benefiting this.
In fact, if you look at in Q2, our currency realizations on dollar was around $79.85. Other currencies which are cross currencies there, that realizations has gone down by almost around 7%-8%, like sterling, euro, New Zealand dollar. Australian dollar was around 10% kind of lower realization. Most other currencies there was a lower kind of realization compared to dollar. Now dollar accounts for almost around 60% of business and other currencies account for 40%. Dollar rupee has little gone, but I think dollar rupee realization in coming months would remain higher than $79-$85. Cross currency realizations would improve because dollar index is going down and other currencies are moving up. Hopefully that would be beneficial in times to come.
Understood, sir. Sir, what is our overall, you know, margin outlook? We are seeing quarters being very volatile, especially for margins, given the large fixed cost base that we're carrying on the PNL. You know, if you just think about the sustainable margins for the business, and this is not, you know, this year, but generally how are you thinking about margins?
I think our EBITDA margin should remain around 21%. That's what we have given forecast last. We have guided in last first quarter, and this year this quarter also is around that, and hopefully it will remain at that level, yeah. Because material cost trend is better and except these your energy costs and marketing costs, these are the two factors. Overall it should be around 21% for the year for the rest of the period, yeah.
Plus, sir, these people who are added, they also go on giving us benefit quarter after quarter. Even that will also add little bit to my EBITDA margin going ahead.
Understood, sir. Understood. The India business margin should be materially higher than this 21%?
For India business, gross margin was at a consistent level of 67%-68% always. They have not materially changed.
Understood. The last question was on Dewas. Is this for the? You know, you talked about the second unit and you talked about 10 products. Is this for the continuous manufacturing? You know, given-
No, not continuous manufacturing.
Pardon me. Any update?
We will have some, but not continuous manufacturing. It's not continuous manufacturing.
Any update?
Continuous manufacturing is planned at your.
Aurangabad.
Aurangabad. We are likely to put second plant also at Aurangabad. Yeah. It's under process, yeah.
Any update on, you know, if you've had any successes on continuous manufacturing for any products?
It's too early to give. Lot of work is happening and it's going to succeed, but it will take time because it's all lot of warranty and other things are involved. Some of the steps what we are currently doing, we had significant success. Some of the chemistries are we are still consulting where we are more particularly using this corrosive chemical like phosphoric acid and phosphorus oxychloride. We are yet to get some kind of answers and all. It's today those kind of products everything is not going on continuous basis. It's some steps which we have yet to get answers are on the conventional basis. Some other steps are on continuous basis. It's a mixed kind of thing.
Understood. Okay, sir. Thank you so much.
Lot of learnings are happening and with time we will learn more. Yeah.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Next question comes from Damayanti from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, any update on potential FDA inspection for affected plant? What are the current utilization for the existing facilities?
No, madam. As far as USA facility is concerned, we are awaiting re-inspection. It is status quo. As far as the plant utilization is concerned, there were two formulation manufacturing units which were meant for U.S. market, out of which, the Silvassa facility is maybe working at 15%-20% capacity. Silvassa facility was recently inspected by U.K. MHRA. Hopefully, we should get accreditation in a month or so. The second facility which is there in SEZ, Indore, it is working at around 40%-65% capacity. That facility we are using for Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa market.
Okay. Is there a possibility you will further increase utilization of this Indore plant for export market? Because we are yet to hear back from the FDA.
As and when there is a demand and the cGMP requirements increase, we are working on all that.
Okay, sir. My second question is, on the Ipca Laboratories front, you are done, right? Whatever you have to execute and now focused on, scaling up.
That is right.
Okay.
Correct. Right.
Right. My last question is how should we look at tax rate for this year and then coming year also?
As we explained in the last quarter conf call, we are now at a 25% tax rate. There are certain expenditures which are not allowed as a deduction. For example, CSR expenses. Even though it is mandatory, you don't get any tax exemption on that. Similarly, there are certain marketing expenses because of Supreme Court judgments, we don't take tax benefit on such expenses. Because of all this, our tax rate will be 25%, plus another maybe around 3% more because of all these discrete expenses.
There could be some kind of element of deferred tax, deferred tax also because whatever facility you have recently put have high depreciation allowance, so deferred tax. Together maybe around 28-29% kind of overall tax rate could be there.
Probably 28%-29% is the rate which we can work with.
Oh, yeah.
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you, ma'am. Next question comes from Tushar Manudhane from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Sir, just on this cardiovascular therapy in the opening remarks, you referred to some restructuring. Can you elaborate on that?
We have added more division and more people. Little bit restructuring of the existing product going to a new division, those things have also happened. It will get streamlined, maybe a question of a quarter or one more.
Okay. Particularly for this quarter, what has been the growth for this cardiovascular therapy?
As per IMS, our cardiovascular divisions are growing around 4% and market may be growing around 6%. That is what Mr. Jain said. Our growth in the cardiovascular is lower than the market growth. Except therapy in all and therapy, our growth is better than the market growth.
Okay. Just lastly, on [audio distortion] facility, how much operational cost will be there in the PNL now?
Say, till now the cost is hardly any because it's commercialized now.
Cost addition will be there in second half.
Cost may remain at maybe around INR 2.5 crore per month roughly. Plus additional depreciation, whatever is there.
Understood, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Next question comes from Rashmi from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, sir. Any update on Ramdev plant and the Lyka plant? In Ramdev plant, I think you know last year you mentioned that you know we were looking to file some products with the European market. Have you done that? When do we expect approval and the commercialization of those products? Currently it is taken only to the domestic market or to the rest of the world market. Second question is on Lyka plant. I think again from this plant have you started supplying products to any of the markets? If you can update on that thing and also on the capacity utilization for the plant.
Ramdev, Rashmi, new product development work is ongoing. A few products are at the late stage and one more new product we have also filed this year. To get commercial benefit out of that will take time because you need the product registration and all. Earlier, most of their business was coming from intermediate sales, which have more or less completely stopped now. It may be another 3-4 quarters for Ramdev to come to its full capacity utilization. As far as Lyka is concerned, the work is ongoing.
From the Lyka plant we are not currently taking to any market, right?
No, that is what I said. We are taking to market where I am promoting my branded formulation. That is one of the reason of why we acquired some stake in this company. The product dossiers are being prepared. It will be filed in many countries going forward. Filing and ultimate registration and commercialization will take time. There is a gestation period in this business.
Okay.
Country to country registration time also varies. Somewhere you get registration in 6 months, somewhere you get registration in 1 year, 2 years, some cases even 3 years.
Sir, on the guidance part, do you maintain your guidance for EBITDA margin, the ambition rate, the generic market, what you all given in the last quarter, and?
Except API business, where we gave a guidance of about 5% growth. Instead of that, we believe by the end of this year there will be some de-growth, 2%-3%. Other than this, all other guidance whatever I have given, we will maintain that.
Okay. On EBITDA margin front, this year I understand, but, you know, you also mentioned that, you know, there will be operational costs is still high and we have added people. Next year, how do we see EBITDA margin from your current guidance of around 21%? Whether we will be able to see any kind of expansion or it would remain more or less at the same level, or we will see some kind of, you know, cost-off maybe and that would actually lead to some kind of expansion.
Actually speaking, it's financially very difficult, cost pressure, demand issues, so many regulatory problems with the APIs, Nitrofurantoin, Azido including. Plus over and above that, we have added about 1,500 people in the domestic market. In spite of that, we are delivering this kind of EBITDA margin. We are very confident once these people become productive people who are added in the domestic market. Plus all this demand issue and all other problems which are there regulatory wise, once they are all resolved, EBITDA margin will definitely improve.
Okay, what is
About 20%-25% EBITDA margin 3-4 years down the line.
Okay. The guidance which you are giving is basically including the other income also, right?
Other income is, madam, more or less, it is repetitive income. Every quarter it is there.
Okay. All right.
Whatever wages were given include other income, definitely, yes.
Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you, ma'am. Next question comes from Rahul Jeewani from IIFL Securities Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for taking my question. Again, on the EBITDA margin guidance which you have provided of 51% for FY 2023, I think we referred to the margins for the standalone business. But if we see between the standalone and the consolidated business, there is a margin differential of almost 200 basis points. If you can also comment on how you are looking at the margins for the consolidated business this year and potentially over the next 2-3-year period as well.
Typically, the difference is mainly because in this quarter there was some exceptional losses in the Asia accounts. All this COVID sale and post-COVID, whatever returns and discounts and all, because of that, it was exceptional this particular quarter. Otherwise, more or less the standalone and consolidated EBITDA margin should be more or less similar. Only two companies are facing difficulty little bit, Pisgah and Ramdev. As I said, Ramdev should be back on track maybe in another two, three quarters. Pisgah may take another year or so. Other than that, whatever the difference is there, it will definitely come down going forward.
Okay, sure. Thanks so much.
Thank you, sir. There are no further questions. Now I would like to hand over the floor to the management for the closing comments.
Thank you everybody for participating in this phone call. There is nothing further to add. Thank you. Thank you everyone.