Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the post-result earning call of IRCON Limited conference call, hosted by Antique Stock Broking. As a reminder, all participants' lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I'll hand the conference over to Mr. Vishal Periwal from Antique Stock Broking Limited. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Periwal.
Yeah, thanks, Neha. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the Quarter 1 FY 25 post result earnings call of IRCON Limited. From the management side, we have with us Mr. Hari Mohan Gupta, Chairman and Managing Director, Mrs. Ragini Advani, Director, Finance, Mr. B. Mugunthan, ED, Finance, Mr. Aleen Roy Chowdhury, CGM, Finance, and Mr. Sachin Gupta, DGM, Finance and Investor Relations. As usual, we'll have a brief from the management on the gone by results, and we'll open the line for Q&A. Yeah, sir, Shri Hari sir, over to you.
Yeah, good afternoon. I'm Hari Mohan Gupta, basically Indian Railway officer of 89 exam batch and, a civil engineer from IIT Roorkee. Now, I will request my director of finance to please present the, finance data for this quarter, please.
Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Vishal. Good afternoon, everyone. I am Ragini Advani, Director of Finance, IRCON. On behalf of my team, I extend a warm welcome to all of you, and thank you for your presence today at IRCON's earnings call for Q1 FY25. I'm also happy to introduce our newly appointed full-time regular Chairman and Managing Director as well as CEO, Mr. Hari Mohan Gupta. Welcome, sir.
Thank you.
He has joined the company recently and has extremely rich experience in railways and infrastructure sector. He has previously worked as Director, Infrastructure of Dedicated Freight Corridor, and also as ED Works in Ministry of Railways. Financial results, as well as presentation for Q1 FY 2025, have already been uploaded on the stock exchanges, and I'm sure that all of you have had the opportunity to review these documents. Just a snapshot of our performance. Q1, as we are all aware, in infrastructure sector, especially like ours, tends to be a little weak. The company has reported a total revenue of INR 2,385 crore in Q1 FY 2025, a PAT of about INR 224 crore. This is an increase of 20% as compared to the corresponding quarter of the previous year.
Core EBITDA has increased marginally to INR 259 crore vis-a-vis INR 251 crore in Q1 last year. Earnings per share has gone up to INR 2.38 per share in Q1 FY 2025, as against INR 1.99 in Q1 FY 2024, and this is on a face value of INR 2 per share. The order book of the company as at 30th June 2024 stood at about INR 26,000 crore, wherein about 51% orders are on competitive basis and balance on nomination. In terms of the domestic-international split, it is about 91-9. We are all aware that IRCON has 11 subsidiaries and 7 JV companies. Without taking any further time, I would like to open the floor for the Q&A session.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Abhishek Maheshwari from Skyridge Wealth Management. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Welcome to Mr. Hari Mohan also, and to the team. So, firstly, year-on-year basis, we saw a decline in revenue. Also, we've not been seeing any major traction in order delivery. So just a brief outlook on what kind of revenue growth, if any, are we expecting in FY 2025?
Yeah. So, two things. The first thing is that, yes, we've had an order operating revenue decline in Q1 FY25. There have been a couple of reasons for it. The first reason is that some of our privileged large projects are almost MEAring completion or have completed, one of them being USBRL project, the other being Dedicated Freight Corridor project, and that is the reason we have witnessed decline in the turnover of quarter one. Also, there were some geographical factors which were beyond us. For example, you know, there had been too much of a rainfall, even in the period of April to June in some of our hilly terrain projects, and we had to divert our resources for national cause....
Third, there have been certain decline in the international revenue as well, and that is mainly because of the problems that we've seen in countries like Bangladesh. So given all these factors, we have had a decline in Q1. Also, we do expect Q2 to be mild because of the monsoon and extraneous factors. But on our overall year basis, FY 25 basis, we are fairly hopeful and comfortable that we should be able to do similar levels as FY 24 on an annual basis. Hope that answers your question.
Yeah, a part of the question, ma'am. What about order tendering after the election?
So yes, now that elections are over, we do expect a lot of tenders and bids to come out, both in railways as well as in highway sector. We are actively bidding, and we do hope to have turnaround and some of the orders in this year. Yes, if all goes well, we should be able to get about INR 4,000 crore-INR 5,000 crore in MEAr future immediately. Thank you.
Thank you, ma'am. One last question. Ma'am, you've been maintaining your core EBITDA margins at very stable level, good levels in fact. So because of the intensity of competition, and we are seeing that, you know, the company has not been able to secure orders, you know, the way competition has been able to. So do you feel we have to compromise our EBITDA margins going forward? Because, I mean, last two years, we've been waiting for the new orders to come in, but, it's really not happening. And order book went from INR 50,000 crore... 45, INR 50,000 crore, now INR 25,000 crore. So just, ma'am, your views on that.
Yeah. So, we have been maintaining that we will have a PAT margin in the range of 7%-7.5% on a short- to mid-term perspective. So that is something which we continue to maintain. So there would not. I think that is something where IRCON has committed the margins on a short-term perspective, and we hope to maintain them. But having said that, yes, the competition is increasing on a mid- to long-term perspective, and in order to get orders, we may have to go for some aggressive bidding. We immediately don't see the need for it, but as and when it will happen, we will keep our investor community informed. As far as orders are concerned, definitely, you know, for any company like ours, it tends to be cyclical.
So to that extent, we are well aware that there's been a dip from 44,000 to 26,000, but that 44,000 was at its peak. Typically, for a company like ours, if you were to keep 2 to 2.5 times the number, the range of 30,000-35,000 is also good. That does not mean that we will not be working for orders. We are continuously following it up, and we should be able to do it soon. In the last quarter, we have had order of about INR 1,000 crore. And as I said, we should be getting in the range of INR 4,000 crore-5,000 crore soon enough.
Ma'am, it is not our, you know, our determination and our will to maintain margin at 7-7.5% PAT level, that we are losing out on orders, right? Because it would be nice to have some predictability like other companies, ma'am, in terms of-
No, it is not true, Abhishek. I think it is not as simple a story as probably it's being seen at. It is not a question of getting order versus taking a hit on margin. It's a lot more than that. A company has to deliver, it has to execute a project, and clearly there is no point taking a project at losses. So it's not a question of taking slight dip in margins. Every tender, every opportunity has to be examined in detail. We are very clear that we want to do projects at margins. As I'm saying, from a mid to long-term perspective, we may have to take a dip. Immediately, we don't see it.
We are well aware of the fact that, you know, at the end of it, turnover and profit both needs to be seen. Rest assured, management is looking at it in full details.
Ma'am, thank you very much and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shreyans Mehta from Equirus Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. So, ma'am, my first question is in terms of order inflows. What's the order inflow for one, two, and what's the guidance for the full year?
So, order inflow that we've had in Q1 is about INR 1,000 crore. We hope to get another INR 4,000 crore-INR 5,000 crore by Q2.
Mm-hmm.
Overall, as we've been maintaining, we should be getting order book in the range of INR 10,000-12,000 crore for the full year.
INR 10,000 crore-INR 12,000 crore?
Yes.
Sure. Secondly, ma'am, in terms of, the other income this quarter on a standalone basis looks to be on a very high side. So is it primarily because of dividends received from our JVs?
No. In fact, it is because of my increase in dividend, FD income and mutual fund income. So the treasury products that I do-
Mm-hmm.
-that is where I've had some interest increase over the previous quarter.
Hmm. Got it. So it's the core other income which has increased, and nothing to do with the-
Other income which has increased. Absolutely.
Got it. Got it. Got it. Sure. And, ma'am, you know, we've been highlighting that we are looking to grow by, say, you know, 2x in 4 or 5 years. And here at the same time, for FY 2025, we are guiding for a flattish growth. So I'm just trying to, you know, reconcile where are we on this?
...So, you're absolutely right. As I was just stating earlier also, that it is business for a company like ours, at times tends to be cyclical. We are hoping to have a slightly flattish growth in FY 25. This is considering the fact that we know our Q1 and Q2 is going to be taking a hit for factors which were little beyond our control. And also it will depend a lot on the orders that are secured going forward. From a long-term target, we definitely want to double our turnover, in another 5-6 years, and that's something which we'll continue to strive.
Is it fair to say, you know, probably whatever we lost in FY 25, in terms of execution, for whatever reasons, will be compensated in FY 26, and FY 26 will have at least, say, 10% plus growth? Is there a fair assumption?
You know, I think, I would be in a better position to say that after we have, you know, we are in the Q2 or the Q3 results. And also, you know, there are several orders that we're hopeful of getting. But ultimately, till the time I do not get it, even I may not have that kind of a visibility. We will be definitely, answering this, probably in the next or next to next investor call.
Sure, sure. Okay, ma'am, I have a couple of more questions. I'll join back in with you. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Prakash from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. So in previous call, conference call, you mentioned the large ticket projects that have been held. So I wanted to know that, have you seen any significant movement on these projects? And could you please specify which projects are now back on the track or expected to be awarded soon, and how does this align with your order in pure guidance for the FY 25 months?
So, yes, as we mentioned that after the election, some of the projects have been announced, both in railways as well as in road and highways. NHAI has already announced some of its projects, and the projects that we said were on hold is where I'm saying that we should be able to get about INR 4,000 crore-INR 5,000 crore soon enough. So yes, there have been movement in those opportunities, and that's why we feel it should be coming up soon in our, in our favor.
So the next is, as you mentioned, the INR 26,000 crore order book. So with a large share of orders going through competitive bidding, that is 61% that you mentioned. So can you please explain on how the bidding strategy is designed to protect your margins, especially in this high competitive environment? And what are the trade-offs that have been made between the market share and profitability?
So you know, there are different types of orders that one is targeting at. There are certain target projects where the competition is very high, and in those projects, yes, one may have to take a margin hit, but at the end of it, it will only be to the extent that it should not be a loss-making project. But there are certain projects where there are niche areas such as tunnels, bridges, and some complexities. There we feel the competition is going to be less, especially if the size of those opportunities are large, and there we should be able to maintain our margins. We are also trying to do some kind of tie-up wherever required, so as to protect our margins going forward, even when we are bidding for projects.
So given all of these perspectives, it will really depend on every bid to bid. We are aware of it, but, to say it as a general strategy, yes, we would be picking up some projects where we may have to take little hit on our margins because of the competition. But we may be trying to offset it by getting higher margins on some of our projects because of the complexity niche that we, believe that we will be able to deliver. So industry average, typically right now is in the range of about 5%, and, let us see how we are able to secure around it.
The last one from my side would be, ma'am, that with only 9.3% of your order book from the international markets and the slower execution in the region, could you please share your vision and the strategy for expanding your global footprint?
So as far as global footprint is concerned, there have been couple of drawbacks that have happened in the last one year. The first one being that, as we mentioned, that there has been some political turmoil in two of our projects, which is Myanmar as well as Bangladesh. And similar, of, you know, one down here, geographically, certain issues that are happening. Also, second, the government of India funding, which was being given on to the projects by MEA, either in the form of grant or in the form of LOC, that is right now under wait and watch. So it's being given very slowly by the government. We are also waiting further details from them.
Many of the projects that we do internationally also require funding from India, so that will depend on how MEA is planning to take it forward. But having said that, because IRCON has had an excellent credibility and footprint internationally, there are certain countries and certain projects where we see ourselves trying to pitch in without both these issues. And we should be able to increase our international domain, but as of now, one cannot say whether it will come immediately or not. It's those kind of projects require some efforts to get it eventually. And therefore, international projects will be on the low side for some time, but we are hopeful of getting some of them by the year end.
Right. That's all from us. Thank you so much.
All right.
All right.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Ketan Jain from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Thank you, ma'am. Good afternoon, ma'am. So ma'am, my first question is: Which type of orders are you targeting to take, any specific segment, or what's your strategy on that?
So essentially, there are three things. One, we are going to obviously bid in our bread and butter, which is EPC projects of railways. Two, we are also looking at some EPC in roads and highways. Three, we are looking at some PPP projects as well.
PPP in roads, ma'am?
Yes.
My next question is, ma'am, all the status on nomination based orders, are we still receiving them or is it closed?
Sorry, I did not get your question.
Status on nomination-based orders from Indian Railways. Are you going to receive some of them going forward?
No. I mean, as a matter of principle, government has stopped giving any business on nomination-
Mm-hmm.
-in railway sector, and that's been stopped for quite a while now. So, you know, unless of course there is some extreme exigency, first the principle and then competition only.
So, we can assume nomination-based orders in our order book to go to zero in long term?
Yes.
Okay. Ma'am, also on the bidding-based orders, how are we executing them? Are we subcontracting them 100%, or how are we executing them?
It's again a mix. Most of the jobs we tend to do some part in-house. We have a very strong designing team, and we also tend to keep procurement with us wherever we feel it's important. And, then subcontracts, and that could also be not one, but depending upon the level of subcontracting that is required. Certain jobs, yes, we have been fully subcontracting, where we feel that, our role is limited, or it's more of run-of-the-mill jobs. So it's been a mixture, depending upon how we feel we can execute the project well and maintain our margins.
Can I assume that design and procurement is in-house and construction is subcontract for majority of the projects?
Not all projects. Certain projects don't need that kind of a design, or they may not have too much of a procurement component. Then, for example, our bullet train project, we're keeping the procurement with us. So it, you know, it will really depend on that.
But, if I just have to give a answer, like, majorly it is subcontracted.
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. No, yeah. I mean, certain components of a project we continue to keep with us, certain we do in-house, and certain we subcontract, yes.
Understood. Okay. Thank you. Those are my questions.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shreyans Mehta from Equirus Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. So, ma'am, just to dwell more on order inflows, so the INR 4,000-INR 5,000 crore which you have indicated, are these mainly the road sector projects which you are indicating?
That's right.
So, ma'am, out there, what we're hearing is, you know, that could go under renegotiations, and many players have indicated that, you know, the authorities have approached them. So are we on the same lines, that probably, you know, the renegotiations are on?
I don't think we will be in a position to disclose beyond that, considering the-
Okay.
Sensitive information. I think you're asking very specific pointed bids that is under consideration. So we'll be happy to discuss this after we get it.
Sure, sure. All right, ma'am. Sure. No problem.
Thank you so much.
Ma'am, in terms of bid pipeline, what's the current bid pipeline, and how do you see the INR 10,000 crore coming through? If you could give, you know, any number that X percentage would be from railways, you know, X percentage from roads. Any broader sense on that?
At this stage, we may not be able to say how much percentage from railways or roads-
Mm-hmm.
but we are going aggressive in both these sectors in terms of what we are targeting to build. For example, in Q1 itself, just to give you an idea, you know, we are planning... I mean, we had bids to the extent of about INR 20,000 crore-INR 25,000 crore.
Okay.
Wherein the indicative bids that have been open till now, approximately out of the INR 25,000 crore, is around INR 15,000-INR 18,000 crore.
Okay.
Out of that INR 15,000-18,000 crore, some of them are under technical evaluation, and some of them have also added their financials. That is where I'm saying out of that 15, we are looking and hopefully should be in the range of INR 4,000-5,000 crore, is what we should get in our pipe.
Got it. And, ma'am, in case if you could give-
Both railways and roads.
Okay.
Broadly, I mean, one can say at least on this number of 25,000 that we bid right now-
Mm-hmm.
One can say it's almost 50/50 mix, but going forward, it will really depend which sector comes up with what kind of bids and what is it that we really go ahead with.
Got it. Got it. Got it. Sure.
Okay?
And secondly, ma'am, in terms of, you know, the solar and hydro, now, you know, the government is focusing a lot on renewable, so, you know, we are largely into solar. So any plans or can we do something on the hydro front or any other related segment?
... So, we are open to it, but since we are setting up a first renewable project, solar PV project, we wanted to play safe and make sure that we are in a position to deliver what we are delivering and get returns out of it.
Mm-hmm.
which is pretty much on track. I will hand over to my CFO to explain our existing project. That will give you a sense of how we are proceeding there, and we will be looking at the segments once we have completed the existing project that we've taken on hand. Over to Mr. Mugunthan.
Yeah, good afternoon. Regarding our the progress of the solar projects, we are on track. About 80% of the land acquisition has taken place. We have placed all the contracts are in place, and we are seeing a steady progress. In fact, just about a week back, we had commissioned about 50 megawatts of capacity. We hope to complete the entire 500 megawatt capacity by September 2025. I think once we are confident, we may use the credentials to take part in EPC tenders in the solar sector.
So these are largely back-to-back PPA contracts, right?
Yeah, yeah. The PPA has been signed by the railways.
Yeah, it is. The PPA is signed with Railways.
What's the per unit, you know, which we are going to receive?
Sorry, you're talking about the tariff?
Tariff, tariff.
Yeah.
Yeah, tariff.
So right now, we have signed the PPA at INR 2.45. This tariff was, as per the bid conditions, that is prescribed by the MNRE.
Okay.
and there is a tariff revision, which has been subsequently advised by MNRE at INR 2.57. Because of the change in the GST regime, we have approached Railway for changing the tariff rate in the PPA agreement, which we have signed, and it is under consideration.
Sure. Sure. One last question, ma'am, if you could help us in terms of cash and bank balance and investments in our different SPVs?
Yes, please. So we have typically a cash and bank balance of INR 4,000 crore, out of which, our own funds are about INR 800+ crore, about INR 820 crore.
Okay.
The rest is of course relating to projects.
Right.
As far as our investments go, we have a commitment of about INR 1,100 crore, which we still need to give in the form of equity loans, bonds, quota equity to our SPVs. Out of that, I think 50% will be this year and the balance next year.
What have we already done till date?
So in this quarter, we've done about INR 80 crore.
Okay.
Overall, we've done in the range of about INR 2,200 crore-INR 2,300 crore.
Sorry, can you repeat, ma'am? 2100-2300.
Yeah, that's it.
Sure. Okay, ma'am, that's it from my side. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next follow-up question is from the line of Abhishek Maheshwari from Skyridge Wealth Management. Please go ahead.
Yes, thank you for taking my follow-up. So, ma'am, regarding high-speed rail, we are working on Mumbai-Ahmedabad corridor right now. Any expectations if any new corridor also opens up for work? I mean, government was focused on Delhi-Varanasi and Delhi-Ahmedabad also. And also, if you could give your views on you know, why there is so much delay in executing our projects versus you know, how they're executing East Asia, where you know, things happen much faster. Is it primarily because of land acquisition, or what is it? Thank you.
So two, three questions that you've asked. The first thing is regarding the two project or bullet train projects. As far as bullet train project is concerned, it is definitely the first project which has come into India on Japanese technology. It is supposed to be completed in FY 2028, and it is running pretty much on track. I think the first 50 kilometers should come up next year. And as far as the rest of the projects that you mentioned, which is Delhi-Varanasi corridor and Mumbai-Delhi corridor, the government is right now looking at those projects at DPR stage. That is what we believe. So the project detailed project review reports are being made. We will be happy to participate as and when those opportunities come.
Now, as far as the second question that you mentioned about the delay in execution of projects are concerned, this can be again split into two parts. As, the first part is, yes, these are infrastructure projects, and typically the, land acquisition becomes one of the most critical factors. We also have, a lot of lands get into private land, state government land, central government land, and, at times there are land, which, you know, the even authorities may not have the records of. So at times, that tends to take a, some time, and also, there are certain environmental clearances which are required, because there is a lot of green cover that we have all over India, and that may also take time. But those are things which, may not fall in the scope of IRCON.
So as far as IRCON is concerned, once these things are taken care, we typically are by and large executing projects on time, with few delays here and there. Certain projects, again, depending upon the geography or the terrain, do tend to delay. For example, our J&K project or the USBRL project, as we call it. But otherwise, we are right now doing projects, especially the road and highway projects, on time. In fact, whatever is the time that's being laid down by NHAI, we have pretty much completed most of them within them. And again, there are certain issues in some of our coal connectivity projects, but that's also because, primarily because of land.
Okay, ma'am. Thank you. That was very helpful.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Vishal Periwal from Antique Stock Broking Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah, ma'am. Thanks for this opportunity. I think you did briefly mention the investment of roughly INR 1,100 crore this year and next year combined. So, is it possible to share the breakup of it, maybe broad segments or anything that you can provide on this?
Okay. Because these are already committed, so this is about INR 500 crore in road projects, 400 crores in coal projects, about 70 crores in renewable, and about another 100 crores, which could switch between road and coal, depending upon the final cost.
Okay. Got it. And then on this solar project, I think the project is on the verge of commissioning. So what is this expected project cost, and what is the equity invested in this now for us?
Yeah, absolutely. I think, as far as the renewable committed amount is about INR 120 crore of equity, and that is where we still have to do another... In fact, it's INR 200 crore, and we've done about 130, all crores. 60 more crores is what we need to invest. And the overall project cost and other details, I will ask my CFO to explain, please.
Yeah. So overall project cost is about INR 2,760 crore. This is for the entire 500 megawatts. Out of this, about INR 224 crore is coming as VGF. So minus that, we have a total equity commitment along with our JV partner of about INR 416 crore. The rest, we have arranged a debt from Union Bank of India.
Okay. So what is our stake in this?
Our equity stake is 70-
Six percent.
Seventy-six percent.
Okay. Remaining, is it with railway, is it? Or-
It is with a private player called Ayana.
Okay.
This is Ayana Renewables, which is a subsidiary of NIIF.
NIIF, okay. Right. And in solar, again, are there any further plans that we are bidding for it or anything that you'd like to share after this 500 megawatt?
Given the competitiveness of the industry, we may not participate in the bids which is being called by state governments, et cetera. But whenever a CPSU scheme, which is specifically, if it is another tranches laws, is launched, we will definitely would like to participate in it. Apart from that, we are also open to participating as an EPC player in the various tenders which are called by entities like NTPC or NHPC. So that is something which we would be interested, but this is all only after we complete and get our credentials for this project.
Okay. Got it, sir. And, in terms of, I think, though, historically, you have been saying, but, anything on the asset monetization, where we have invested roughly 2,200-odd crore INR. So, any progress, which is happening, any clearances, which we are seeking, or, or it is still at the same stage, or probably we are not looking at just now for that, phase?
So this is pretty much on our radar. As we mentioned last time also, four of our road projects are operational. And for them, we had taken our own board approval, which is in-principle approval, to go ahead for strategic sale, monetization of these assets, and for which, of course, we, being a government company, have to take some other approvals from the government itself. We've written to Ministry of Railways. In fact, Ministry of Railways has also had some rounds of discussions with us on it, and it should be moving soon to the next level, which would be DIPAM. So, we actually, this needs to go through a full process, and a government approval at alternate mechanism may be required for this to happen.
Once we get that approval, which we are hopeful of getting, since we have already crossed railways, and right now it is sitting with DIPAM, it may take time, but eventually, as and when it comes, then we will be happy to go ahead with the monetization.
Okay. Got it. Got it, ma'am. Maybe one last question, and then I'll come back in the queue. So I think you did mention, clarified in terms of our orders that we are targeting. So, given, I mean, like, you know, competition is there or other, like, you know, things that you mentioned, are we also trying for a get to get orders, some joint ventures? Are we doing—Are we, are we looking in that front, so that, like, you know, we are open up, opening to new, new sectors?
Yeah, yeah. We are open to all kinds of joint ventures. Obviously, I mean, at the end of it, there has to be something which is a sustainable business... and something which we feel we bring value to the table. So, or what we call as a fit to the overall natural business sense that we have. In fact, some of our bids that we have given are as a part of pre-bid tie-ups to get, make sure that you know, the best of both the worlds are available while we are bidding for a project. And going forward, we would be open to more joint ventures.
Okay, okay. Got it, ma'am. Thanks for the explanation. I'll come back in the queue, ma'am.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next follow-up question is from Shreyans Mehta from Equirus Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, yeah, thanks for the follow-up opportunity. So ma'am, just one clarification on the previous participant's question on monetization. So how does it work? First, we go move the plants to railways and it moves to DIPAM, or we work parallelly, even with, you know, players who want to look at our assets and both work in sync?
No, no, no. So it clearly works after we get an in-principle approval from the highest authority in the government. That is when we will open the asset for the due diligence thereon, or any discussions with parties only after that.
Got it.
Also, that would be an open process.
Okay. Okay, sure. And then once, you know, say for example, once we are through this process, and once we receive some valuation, for that, again, you know, we'll be required approval from the government authorities, or we can go ahead with whatever valuations we are comfortable with?
So our understanding is that it should be with the Gol or at the most, with Ministry of Railways. But once those approvals come from the highest authority, that is when we will need to know or get to know if there are any caveats put by them.
Got it. Got it.
Should not go against to that level.
Got it. Got it. So because, ma'am, I'm just trying to understand, you know, we are going to DIPAM, you know, with, without any valuations, just on, you know, that we want to sell, and once we get the numbers, post that, I don't know, I mean, how it will work. So just what's the-
We are running an open process, no? And we are going to run it as per the Government of India guidelines.
Got it. Sure. Secondly, ma'am, in terms of the railway land, you know, I mean, we had some land parcel in BKC. Any clarity out there?
As we mentioned last time only, that we have given it back to railways.
Okay. Okay, okay.
It is out of our books completely.
Got it. So any payments we've received against that, we were supposed to receive certain payments, I guess?
So, you know, we had structured the entire development of that Bandra project in such a way that we were getting three installments.
Mm-hmm.
Initially for doing the work that we were doing initially, and subsequently, it would be dependent upon the... almost like a success, success fee kind of a model. And, but it didn't turn out that way, so we have received the first installment of that fee, and that is what we've accounted. Everything else is gone, lock, stock, and barrel back to railways.
Got it. Got it.
Out of it is, the receipts that we have booked out of it is about INR 25 crores.
INR 25 crore, and how much this way we'll have to book?
Pardon?
25 crores is what we've booked to date, right?
25 crore is what we have booked as a fee in this, yes.
How much more needs to be booked, the other two installments?
Nothing.
Nothing. So that... Okay, okay.
Final settlement.
Got it, ma'am. Sure. And lastly, ma'am, in terms of EBITDA, so how should, you know, one look at the core EBITDA standard level? Should it stabilize here, you know, given the current order book? And B, in case, you know, the competition increases, how, you know, confident are you of maintaining or probably, you know, since we are indicating that competition could increase, so can it go, or how comfortable are we at, say, 6% EBITDA margin? How should one look at the EBITDA margins for this year and next year, the core EBITDA margins?
So as far as core EBITDA margin, I'm talking about the full year, FY 2023 and 2024 level.
Right.
That is the level which we maintain, we should be able to maintain for FY 25 also.
Okay.
I'm not talking for Q1. Q1 has an exceptionally good EBITDA margin. Okay?
Got it.
Those are the numbers which we'll continue to maintain for FY 25. We may take a hit of about few basis points in FY 26, and as far as going forward is concerned, as you rightly mentioned, there may be a stretch between, you know, competition versus orders that we have to procure. We will keep our investor community informed, as in when we feel that these are expected to drop. But for this particular year and most of the next year, we should be within the range of 6.5%-7.5%.
Got it, ma'am. Got it. Okay, ma'am, that's it from my side. Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take this as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the IRCON management for closing comments.
Thank you so much. As there are no further questions, I would like to hand over the call. Thank you for... Where is Vishal? He's not here. Okay, I'm sorry. I think I thought that Vishal would be there. But thank you, Neha and Vishal, for moderating the call. And I would like to thank all our stakeholders, shareholders, business partners, analysts, investor friends, advisors, officials from our ministry, who have continued to support us, show faith in us, and being a part of our growth journey. We would be happy to connect with any and all of you on one-to-one basis, as and when required. I conclude today's con call, and thank you once again for your active participation. Thanks.
Thank you. On behalf of Antique Stock Broking Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.
Thank you.