Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Indian Railway Catering and Tourism Corporation Limited, Q4 FY 2023 earnings conference call hosted by Dolat Capital Markets Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star 0 on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital. Thank you, and over to you.
Thank you, Ranjith. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Dolat Capital, we welcome you all to the Q4 FY 2023 conference call of IRCTC Limited. I take this opportunity to welcome the management of IRCTC, represented by Srimati Rajni Hasija-ji, who is CMD of the company, and Mr. Ajit Kumar-ji, who is Director Finance and CFO of the company. Now, I would like to hand the conference over to IRCTC management to take the proceedings forward. Over to you, please.
Very good afternoon to everyone present here, a very warm welcome to you and all the presentees to this concall of IRCTC Limited for the quarter and the year ended 31st March 2023. Wishing you and your dear ones very good health also. Yesterday, your company had announced an audited financial results for the fourth quarter and year ended 31st March 2023, the same have been disclosed on both the stock exchanges website also. I shall first give you a brief overview about the last quarter of FY 2023 and overall results of FY 2023 also, post which our Director of Finance and CFO will provide the details of the performance of our business segments, post which we shall have a question and answer session, too.
The last quarter of FY 2023, the revenue was all-time high. That is INR 965 crore. A very strong growth of 5.1% quarter-over-quarter, year-over-year, the growth has been 39.7%, has been seen. In the last quarter of FY 2023, the tourism segment has been the main driver of the quarter-over-quarter revenue growth, given that the quarter is seasonally the best quarter for the segment. As you would be aware about the difference in the profitability of our business segments, the change in the business mix resulted in the EBITDA margins coming to 33.6% versus 35.5% quarter-over-quarter and 40.3% year-over-year.
Importantly, the absolute EBITDA of INR 324.6 crore was in line with the INR 325.8 crore in the third quarter of financial year 2023. The net profit before exceptional items for the quarter, last quarter of financial year 2023, came to be INR 253 crore, that is INR 253 crore, vis-a-vis INR 254 crore in the third quarter of the financial year, and INR 218 crore in the last quarter of the previous year. For the year 2023 as a whole, the revenue, which has been lifetime high for the IRCTC, came to be INR 3,541.5 crore and grew by 88.5% year-over-year.
That is, the absolute EBITDA came at INR 1,276 CR, with 46.3% year-over-year, and EBITDA margin came at 36% versus 46.4% year-over-year, given the change in the revenue mix. Lifetime high net profit before exceptional items also came. That is at INR 978.7 CR versus INR 663.6 CR from the last year. The Board of Directors have recommended the final dividend of INR 2 per share, subject to shareholders' approval, which takes the total dividend of INR 5.5 per share for the financial year 2023, highest ever dividend declared by IRCTC so far.
I would like to conclude my opening remarks by saying that IRCTC has demonstrated its, once again, its resilience, resilient business model during and most importantly, post the COVID-19 pandemic. It is its resilience that would keep the company to continue on its growth path in the future as well. Now, I shall be handing over the call to my colleague and our Director and CFO, Shri Ajit Kumar, to brief you on the financial and segment-wide performance of the company. Thank you very much, gentlemen.
Good afternoon, everybody, and I hope you and your dear ones are in good health. I shall first give a brief overview about Q4 FY 2023 results, post which we'll have a question and answer session. Q4 FY 2023 revenues for another quarter of strong growth, both on quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year basis. Revenue of INR 965 crores grew by 5.1% quarter-over-quarter, and by just under 40% year-over-year. Given that tourism segment, which are relatively lower margin, was the key driver for quarter-over-quarter revenue growth, the overall EBITDA margin 36.6% versus 35.5% quarter-over-quarter and 40.4% year-over-year. However, we have been able to maintain the absolute EBITDA almost at Q3 FY 2023 levels.
Net profit before exceptional items for Q4 FY 2023 came at INR 253 crores, versus INR 254 crores in Q3 FY 2023, and INR 218 crores in Q4 FY 2022. Let us move to the business segment. The first one, Internet Ticketing segment that continued to demonstrate its resilience amidst conversion of reserved towards tickets back to unreserved tickets, as during the pre-pandemic period. Revenue for the quarter was at INR 295 crores, which declined by just 2% quarter-over-quarter, and was grew by 0.8% year-over-year. EBIT margin came at 88.1% versus 84.2% quarter-over-quarter and 91.5% year-over-year.
Next segment, the catering segment, that reported a revenue of INR 395.8 crores, implying growth of 0.4% quarter-over-quarter and 48.7% year-over-year. The EBIT margin improved to 12.1% versus 10.7% quarter-over-quarter and 9.4% year-over-year. The third important segment, the tourism. The tourism segment saw a strong growth of 38% quarter-over-quarter and 1.5 x year-over-year to INR 204 crores, which is a new all-time high and well above the pre-pandemic levels. EBIT margin for this segment improved further to 13.5%, versus 10.8% quarter-over-quarter, and a loss on year-on-year basis.
In Q4 FY 2023, the revenue share of the tourism segment increased to 21.1% versus 16.1% quarter-over-quarter and 11.6% year-over-year. As you know, given that the EBIT margin for this segment is lower than the company average, it resulted in a moderation of overall margin profile of the quarter. Next important segment, railway. Railway saw Q4 FY 2023 revenue of INR 70.1 crores, implying a decline of 6.7% quarter-over-quarter and a growth of 35.2% year-over-year. Reported EBIT margin improved to 18.6%, versus 11.8% quarter-over-quarter, and a loss on a year-on-year basis.
For Q4 FY 2023, the CapEx was INR 21.64 crore. Total CapEx for the FY 2023 was INR 135.4 crore. The cash and bank balances and net worth of the company as of the end of FY 2023 is INR 1,934 crore and INR 2,480 crore, respectively. That brings me to the end of my, the opening remarks. Now, we can straight move to the question answer system. Thank you.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, may press star one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from the line of Jinesh Joshi from Prabhudas Lilladher Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. Initially, if you can help me with the convenience revenue for the quarter and also the number of tickets booked.
Can you please come again? Your voice initially was not audible.
Am I audible now?
Yes, you are better.
Yeah. Madam, I wanted to know what was our convenience revenue and the total number of tickets booked for the quarter?
Okay. I will answer your second question first. The number of tickets booked is, in this last quarter, that is January 2023 to March 2023, total tickets have been nearly 10.44 CR tickets, number of tickets have been booked, and 14.54 CR passengers have been booked on these tickets. Then you take the revenue from this book, total INR 802 was the total revenue of the ticketing in the entire financial year, and in the last quarter, the convenience fee that we have received is nearly INR 197 CR in the last quarter.
Sure, Madam. Thank you. My second question is with respect to our catering business. If I remember correctly, our catering reach was approximately 1,200 trains, including PSP and the pantry car, until the last quarter. The question is, have you been able to extend the count over here? Also, what is the total opportunity size in terms of number of trains that we can service? Basically, I thought of asking this question as not all suburban trains would require catering support, especially the ones that ply on the short distance. Yeah, your thoughts on this.
See, before COVID, we were having nearly 417 trains, if you recall correctly. These 417 trains with the pantry car. This 417 train the figure has increased, and we have now the contracts available for 492 trains, which has been awarded by IRCTC till the last month. In addition to these 492 trains, we also have a train side vending contracts available for nearly 675 such trains. Many of the, I think, more than 300 train contracts is still in the pipeline, because we are, as of now, we are going for a short-term tenders, and this is a continuous process, and after every 6 months, the cycle repeats.
As of now, you can say more than 1,100 trains are available with the IRCTC on contract, out of which nearly, 50% trains are with the pantry cars, and rest of the trains are under train side vending.
Sure, madam. Just one follow-up on this side. You mentioned that more than 1,100 trains are available, but I wanted to know the opportunity size.
All Vande Bharat which are coming are being added as a fleet. Our contracts are being awarded by the IRCTC. That is one addition. Any new trains being operated by Indian Railways, the contracts are being awarded by IRCTC only. We have a right, you can say that, so far, I think Honorable Prime Minister has announced that 75 new Vande Bharats are going to be operated, out of which I think 20 have started. All such operations are being looked after by IRCTC. The more trains are going to be there in the pipeline, the more services are going to be available for IRCTC.
Sure, madam. One last question from my side, that is on the balance sheet, especially pertaining to the receivable days. If I remember correctly, in the past, we had worked out an MOU with the Indian Railways, whereby majority of the payment pertaining to catering was to happen on the day of the service itself, which essentially should have led to an improvement in our receivable cycle, so to say. Apparently, if I look at our receivable days for FY 2023, it is at about 118 odd, which is not materially different than the past. Has the change really come into effect?
There was made, Ministry of Railways has already decided. Yesterday also, there was a testing. If everything goes well with the testing, it is likely to be started within the coming month. We, as our services are booked for a train, accordingly, the customer will be paying online, so we would be receiving nearly 68.5% of that revenue directly the next day. That testing is being done. Our team is also involved. The testing is in place. You will find some changes in the preceding month, in the forthcoming months.
Got it. Basically, our receivable cycle should improve going ahead. Is that understanding?
It will, rather, because we are going to get the. Earlier, you used to get the amount after 120 days. After 120 days, some time is taken by the Railway to reimburse the amount. We had a lead time of more than 6 months in getting. That is why you are saying 6 months. Maybe now, when as soon as the ticket is booked, journey may be after 120 days, but at least 68% of the revenue will be available with you. That program has been developed by our technical body team. It is being tested by Railway CNF, it is being tested by IRCTC CNF, and our operational teams, too, on both the sides.
Sure, madam. Thank you so much, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Rohit Bahirwani from Vijit Global Securities Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for giving me the opportunity. I had a couple of questions. First is, what are your growth plans in Rail Neer segment? The capacity is around INR 14.8 lakh L per day, and utilization is around 70%. At what levels can we expect it to go further?
Okay. you said our capacity is nearly 14, but per day production of the Rail Neer is now INR 15.5 lakh liters a day. We have 16 plants in operation, our Bhubaneshwar and Vijayawada is going to be operational soon. The plants which are being operated by us, we are also thinking of increasing their capacity also. We have certain space available before the plant, we are trying to increase the capacity of that plant as well, in addition to making the new plant, which are going to be commissioned soon in Bhubaneshwar, Vijayawada, Kota and Simhadri.
What can be the utilization level can we expect in future?
As of now, in the last financial year, the fiscal we are talking about, our capacity utilization has been nearly 73.32%. As the trail is picking up, we are increasing our capacity utilization in many of the cases. Yesterday, we also had our cost audit, and it has also observed that the utilization of the plant, capacity utilization, has improved a lot as compared to the pre-COVID-19 levels, COVID-19 levels also. We are in process, and we are going to increase their capacity also, and the utilization of the, not only the existing assets, but the asset going to be added. Since we have to meet the demand, so we'll have to increase the production of from these plants as well.
You will find some good improvement on a better side as far as the capacity utilization is concerned. May and June are the peak period, July, in fact, now the railway demand is throughout the year except for the month when you have a winter. You will find a more or less good capacity utilization throughout the year, except for the maintenance days.
Okay, okay. My second question was, what's the update on the payment aggregator license, which is pending since last two quarters? Just wanted to understand, will it help in bringing additional revenues or will help in cutting down the costs?
It will help the payment gateway business. Yes, we had applied for the license. We were stuck up in between. Many changes are to be made. We are iPay licensing, we had applied to RBI. RBI has given a certain guideline. We are compliant with that guideline. We are in process of following. As a follow-up, we are about to submit two papers to them very soon. As far as the revenue from the iPay is concerned, let me explain you that our revenue from the payment gateway has been very good this year. This has been nearly INR 67.37 crore from the payment gateway. Out of this, the net profit has been around without GST has been INR 38.09 crore.
The revenue projections are there, that is why we are going ahead. Till the time it is not there, we are going with only with the PG. We have not stopped the PG work. In aggregator model, yes, we are going to increase the revenue once we are through. The process is not that simple, sir. It requires lots of effort, that fees and the entire process has to be rebuilt. We are doing that. The technical changes are also in the pipeline and as well as the approvals are also in the pipeline. You will hear the good news in the days to come.
Okay, that's it from my side. Thank you for answering my questions.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Jyothi Shetty from Aryaman Capital Markets Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is on the Vande Bharat side. If you can give us a little bit brief, which are the, how is the pipeline, and which are the companies that we are having contract, if we can disclose? Apart from that, why are other expenses... Sorry, why are other income is increased from previous quarter?
First is the other income is from the other resources. The interest has gone up.
Increasing up.
Increasing.
FD rates.
FD rates have improved, the interest has improved, so other income has improved. Answer to your second question, ma'am. Answer to your first question is, some light on the Vande Bharat. As far as the operation of the train is concerned, it is controlled by the Ministry of Railways. We know that much, as you have read in the newspaper, that the trains are going to be inaugurated. The Vande Bharat, so far, we are operating, doing the entire hospitality business. Services are being provided by IRCTC on Vande Bharat. As of now, we are providing services in nearly 17 Vande Bharat, two were earlier. These services are there. If Railway decides to operate more and more trains, we would be providing services in all.
Who would be getting the contract or who's running the contract may not be that important. Important is the licensee that IRCTC is getting, and rest of the operation part, IRCTC is handling well.
Okay, thank you so much, ma'am.
Thank you, Jyothi.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Akshay Bhor from Citadel. Please go ahead.
Hi, am I audible?
Yeah, Akshay, you are audible.
Ma'am, my question is on the internet ticketing business and growth as we think about the next year in this business, because ultimately this contributes to about 80% of your EBIT contribution. I just want to understand what are the levers from here for you to deliver growth in this business, in terms of either internet penetration increase or number of passengers increase, and how do we think about each of these variables?
To explain to you, I would like to share few figures with you, Akshay. That is the daily average ticket, if you recall, in the first quarter was around INR 12.73 lakh tickets in a day. When we were having a good number of our two-way tickets available with us, that was nearly 38%. Subsequently, when the decision was taken, our booking went down to 11.63%. And now in the third quarter, the booking went down further. It was 11.31%, but the average now, but in quarter four, the booking came back to 11.61%. The average booking that we are doing is nearly 82% of the total ticket inventory available through online mode.
As far as the services convenience fee, which is contributing, nearly 75% to our profit. More or less, the pattern of the convenience fee remains the same, barring INR 1 crore or INR 2 crore, INR 1 crore, INR 2 crore, or INR 3 crore here and there. You can see our revenue from the convenience fee is nearly INR 200 crore average on a month, and the total revenue that we have collected from the internet ticketing is around INR 802 CR in the entire year. As of now, the booking remains the same, but we are focusing more on the non-convenience fee resources, which have now increased, which are contributing to 33% of the total revenue of the internet ticketing business.
Out of it, the total revenue that we have earned through this business and related businesses, nearly INR 1,200 crore, out of which INR 802 crores, that is 66.94%, was contributed by convenience fee. That is your ticketing business. The non-convenience fee business is around 33%, sir. That was earlier INR 337 CR in the last financial year. This year it is now almost touching INR 400 crore , so there you find some growth. This growth has been mainly due to many factors. That is our loyalty program has also contributed, our CG integration has also contributed, our agent portion has also contributed, our IT earning has also contributed.
When we see the revenues from the IT business, it has to be seen in totality, not alone with the convenience fee, which is 82%. May, it may increase to 83, 84 in the years to come. At the same time, we need to focus upon the non-convenience fee resources, which are the added business, ancillary business to the internet ticketing. Our intention is to increase our revenue there more and more, and to not only to retain the internet ticketing, but to show a good growth by providing the good services to the customer.
Got it, ma'am. Just a clarification, is it then fair to say that, you know, looking into the next couple of years, the growth in the internet ticketing segment will be largely through non-convenience fee, and convenience fee could remain in the same sort of INR 200-ish crore kind of ranges that was there for?
Some growth will be there in the ticketing also. As the internet improves in the country, some marginal improvement happens every year. It was little fortunate or unfortunate in the COVID days, that growth, which was to happen in the years to come, happened in one year. That is why some variation you can see, some variation in the revenue, which was also seen just after the Covid. It was a bread earner during that period. As the train increases, the capacity utilization increases. Like Vande Bharat are being added, and more and more trains will be added, so our revenue will also take us, will go on a higher side gradually. The margins are going to be little at a slower pace as compared to the COVID period.
Yes, our focus is going to be more on the non-convenience fee, where we are trying hard. Aggregator business is one, and our other loyalty programs, you might have noticed that we are doing lot of loyalty programs ahead. We have already opened with the three banks as compared to one previous bank. Ticketing also, we have recently launched the Char Dham ticketing with the other parties. Other party ticketing also we are focusing, that Char Dham booking is very popular. Our payment business is also there, and we are also focusing more on the B2B partners and the other businesses.
Correct. Got it, ma'am. Just one last question from my side. This is again on the on the convenience fee itself. Ma'am, you would have a decent visibility in terms of what is the likely passenger booked growth in the next couple of years. And as we understand, already the capacity of Indian Railways is so high that you, by adding a few table streams, you know, it doesn't move the needle in terms of overall passengers travel. Do you have a visibility in terms of what is the growth rate that you could see in terms of passengers booked or traveled in your case?
I don't know. I don't have the overall picture of the passenger traveled on Indian Railways. I can only tell you about the reserved segment....
On the reserve segment itself, ma'am, do you have a visibility of what could be the passenger count?
I can tell you. First thing, if you see the January figure, the passenger travel was 4.85 billion. In February, because of the winter, it has a seasonal variation also, the number of passengers reduced to 4.59 billion in the reserve segment. In the month of March, it increased to 5.09 billion, the number of trains also decreased correspondingly in the month of February, but increased in the month of March. We have to see the seasonal variation also, yes, there is a scope. As the new trains are being added, more and more customers are getting diverted from the other mode. The festival rush is now also there. The holiday rush is now happening. All trains are full.
You will not get reservation in any of the trains these days, the trains are running with the full booking. This is good news for all of us. The more booking, the more revenue to us.
Got it, ma'am. I'll leave it at that. Thank you so much for your time.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Rohit Jain from Tara Capital Partners. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Can you hear me? Am I audible?
Yeah, Rohit Jain, you are audible. Hi.
Yeah, hi, good morning. Taking off from the last question, you said that on the ticketing side, most of the growth is going to be driven by non-convenience fee, and the convenience fee is going to be more or less stable. I mean, it could grow slightly, but the main growth is going to come from non-convenience fee. Can you tell us, what is the difference in the margin profile between convenience fee and the non-convenience fee?
In the convenience fee, when we talk of the, you want me to tell you the productivity margins in that?
No, no. I mean, like, I'm assuming that convenience fee would be your highest margin business. I mean, pretty much it's a platform business. Everything sort of flows to the bottom line. Just compare it to that, like everything margin, anything.
I got it. I got it, Rohit Jain. In fact, the non-convenience fee will have better margins, better than convenience fee. I'll tell you how. Because while when we calculate the convenience fee, we need to pay to the CRIS also for maintaining the infrastructure. The entire infrastructure of the ticketing is costly. There our expenditure, though not as much, but it is certainly more than what we are going to spend in the non-convenience fee resources. Here, what we are doing, the infrastructure that has been already been placed on top of that, these are the ancillary services, which is a total bonus business for IRCTC. Here the expenditure is less, and here the expenditure is going to be more. Most of our businesses, like payment gateway, et cetera, there our expenditure is almost negligible because the infrastructure is already in place.
I do need not take any additional bandwidth. The only manpower, monitoring resources and the reconciliation expenditure is added to it. That is very meager as compared to the other infrastructure expenditure that we normally do in the internet ticketing.
Understood. Just another related question to last question is, I guess what the previous participant might have been trying to ask is, as you said, most of the ticket trains are already running at full occupancy. It's difficult to get reservations, so which means pretty much Indian Railways is working at peak capacity. And if you look at the budgetary announcement, every year, the number of trains being added is hardly anything as a percentage of the overall base. So given that internet penetration is pretty much at peak levels, I mean, in the near term, 80%-84%, and all the trains are working at full capacity. So what will drive the growth in the ticketing volume?
I mean, if you look at on a YOY basis, should we expect ticketing revenues to be sort of low single digit to flattish, assuming no change in convenience fee?
It may not be exactly flattish. It will have some seasonal variations and the festival variations, of course.
No, no, I mean, I'm talking on a YOY basis, like if you consider the full year, that will rule out the seasonality, right? I mean, if we take the whole year versus the next year, the seasonality will adjust itself.
Yes. there is, some growth factor associated with the internet ticketing, and as the more and more awareness is happening, the growth sinusoidal curve may not be that sharper. It will grow, but it grow at a slow pace.
Yeah, that's what I said. Is it fair to say that it would be a low single digit types?
Sir, we have already come at 82%. There is going to be a growth, but growth will be at a little, the factor will be little less. That is why we would be focusing more on the non-convenience fee resources. You can't presume that we to have a we still have an offline model available for the persons who are not, who are not that literate. We should have, because it is the services type. Indian Railways has offered services from all the more internet ticketing is one. There will be a transition of the customer from offline mode to online mode, like all businesses, it is also going to happen.
That transition, we will be a beneficiary, but at the same time, just to keep the momentum up, we would be focusing more and more on the other businesses so that our total revenue from this segment, that is internet segment, remains on the top notch.
Understood. Can you just help us understand the, let's say, stable or steady-state margin in the catering business? That margin has fluctuated pretty sharply over the last few quarters. Going forward, what can we expect in terms of a stable margin for that business?
... catering is now contributing nearly 41% of our revenue this financial year it has contributed. Our margin has been more or less same as we had earlier, that is 10%-12%, depending upon segment. Catering, our margin almost, it is going to be in that side only, except for the e-catering, where we have a 15% margin.
Right. More or less, going forward also, 10%-12% should be the steady state range for the catering business?
Yes, you can say so.
Just last question, what drove the sharp increase in the tourism revenue quarter-on-quarter?
You should be happy with that, sir.
No, just trying to understand. We are happy, but we just try to understand.
I tell you the reason. The domestic tourism are on its boom, right? I think I would like to apprise this house, that IRCTC earlier was running into, only into the budget tourism, and we were doing the luxury tourism as well. We have come up with the new model of the business after Ministry of Railways has announced a scheme called Bharat Gaurav Scheme, under Ek Bharat Shreshtha Bharat. Scheme announced by ministry, Honorable Prime Minister has taken this initiative, and in this, our Ministry of Railways has announced a scheme, Bharat Gaurav, where we have taken 10 rigs. These 10 rigs have been customized and put it into the operation. This new segment has been added. Earlier, we were operating only 80 trains in a year, 80-90 trains in a year in the budget segment.
We would be running nearly 300 trains in a year, and each train is contributing to nearly INR 50 lakhs of our revenue. Out of it, yes, of course, some expenditure of the railway and IRCTC and the service provider is also there, but a good margin of a 10% is left with us. You can say that we have operated many such trains. We did lot of domestic tourism, and we competed with the open market. We could drive lots many customers to IRCTC, and static catering also contributed into that. We could do good business, and the results are in front of you. In the years to come, this Bharat Gaurav is going to add a revenue, not less than INR 250 crore alone from this segment, which used to be nearly INR 60 crore -INR 70 crore only in the previous year.
You can anticipate good growth in the tourism.
Understood. Just last question, and thanks for answering all the questions. Given that, future growth is going to be driven, more by, let's say, non-convenience fee, things like Bharat Gaurav and catering, which are, let's say, 10%-12% margin business, at what level should we expect the overall margins to settle? I'm assuming it's going to be lower than the 33%, 34%, 36% that we are used to. Can you help us understand what would be the, margins going forward?
You can expect the same result, sir.
I mean, even if the mix of non-convenience fee increases in the overall revenue mix, the margin is not going to come down?
Yes, yes, I agree, sir. It can be even better if the non-convenience fee resources are doing pretty well and the Bharat Gaurav segment, the way it has picked up, the market and the brand equity of the IRCTC has improved in this segment. We are getting full cooperation everywhere, and the good number of bookings are happening, and the revenue in this segment put together is going to be high and the margins are also going to improve.
No, no, ma'am, what I'm trying to understand is, the, let's say, catering business and the Bharat Gaurav business, you said, are a 10%, 12% margin business. As their proportion in the overall revenue goes up, even though the absolute numbers might go up, but margins will settle lower, right?
Yes, likely things will be there. At the same time, absolute numbers will go up.
Yeah, yeah, that I understand. I'm not asking that. From a modeling perspective, I'm just trying to understand, is there a margin number that we are working with? Is there a visibility there? Is there some visibility there?
We are able to do even better in the non-convenience fee resources. That is going to compensate.
Understood. Okay. Okay, thanks a lot. Thanks for answering all the questions. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Rahul Jain. P lease go ahead .
Hi, is my line audible?
Yeah, Rahul , it is audible.
Yeah, hi. Congratulations on very good numbers. Ma'am, just a couple of things I need to check. Firstly, on the catering side, can we see all normalization related to that lean period, peak period related reconciliation on catering license fee is done?
We have completed for the peak period, and for RSB trains we have done. For the lean period, it is still on, and for the mail express train, it is still on. We have not been able to complete that exercise because we started little late and we are still in process. Maybe in a lean period, we'll the team is going to complete that soon.
Okay. regarding this-
You might have seen, Rahul, you might have seen in the remarks.
No.
That the invoices that we have seen some impact on the results also, which was on a good side. Accordingly, the demand notices were given to our licensees. Many of them have disputed also. We are resolving those disputes first before the money gets realized. We are very much in the process and actively in the process.
Sure, sure. In the ticketing business, since the two years, normalization is largely done with, what should be the growth potential here in the convenience fee side?
Convenience fee will have the convenience fee as compared to the previous year, it has grown up because the number of passengers have gone up. The overall passenger travel on Indian Railways is going to increase because many new trains are being added, and many new trains are being run during the season. Festival extra trains are being operated. We have already seen the growth as compared to the previous year, in spite of the fact we got second less mandatory provision dissociated in the quarter, first quarter itself. More or less static, more or less, uniform results were there. As far as the growth is there, growth is going to be happen, going to happen. It is going to happen more in the non-convenience fee, which has even better margins.
The overall earning from this segment is going to be on a better side. That is what my, our perception is.
Right. If you could share some basic data on the convenience fee side, basically average selling price for the quarter, mix of AC, mix of UPI, those kind of metrics.
Yes, I'll certainly share. See, our total contribution in the last quarter, the quarter we are, Q4 that we are discussing, the sleeper class has been 42.87%. The second less is has, is more or less to the pre-COVID level, that is 12.52%, and the third AC is around 28.29%, and second AC is about 6.93%. This is the very small amount. So this is the bracket as far as the class wise is concerned, and the UPI transaction is contributing nearly 33% now. As we know that the average UPI transaction in this year has been 33% as compared to the previous year when it was 31%, and before that it was 24%.
The overall increase in the UPI transaction is also impacting this. There, that is what I think I answered your question, Rahul?
Yes. Ma'am, on the non-convenience part within the ticketing, any two, three key segments which are sizable, if you could quantify them and the drivers for them going forward?
Yeah. You will find the increase in the revenue in the loyalty program, and of course, the iPay the payment gateway business, you will see some improvement, further improvement. You will also see if our result aggregator license comes through, then you will see further improvement in that business. Advertisement revenue has shown a good improvement, where we have nearly INR 67.41 crore from our advertising business. There, that growth may continue, and we may do even better, because this year is going to be very important. That is in the internet segment, in the other segment, in the tourism, yes, Bharat Gaurav is going to add. IRCTC has a very interesting mix of the revenue.
It keeps on changing, but the overall absolute things, as you know, Rahul, you are a better judge, that we end up landing always in good numbers. Maybe the revenue mix may change. This year, the tourism will also show a good improvement, because earlier the revenue from the Bharat Gaurav type trains used to be nearly INR 60 crore. Now it is going to be nearly INR 250 crore , and the margins are going to increase. Absolute number also will increase. The loyalty scheme in the internet ticketing, we are going to show a jump, and the e-catering will also show some improvement. Overall, there's going to be a goody, very good picture and very good future for our investors in IRCTC.
Thanks. One more question on the tourism side. Can you share the metrics for Tejas in terms of revenue, frequency?
Tejas has done well this year. The overall revenue that we received from Tejas has been INR 155 crore. Operating expenses has been INR 130 crore. Put together, both Tejas has given a revenue net profit of INR 24.3 crore. Occupancy level of Ahmedabad Tejas has been nearly 81%, and Lucknow Tejas has been nearly 69%.
81% and 69%, what you said, is it?
Yes. That is occupancy level.
Right. what's the situation on some of the businesses which are on the tourism segment led by overseas traveler like Maharaja and Buddhist Circuit?
Maharaja has also done very well this year. Last year, it was COVID, so we could get only INR 2.84 crore when we ran through charter. This year we have been able to get nearly INR 55.38 crore from Maharaja, which is a good number, and the number of packs that we have traveled is highest in the country, in the luxury segment. In air ticketing also, as compared to the earlier revenue of INR 8.54 crore in the previous year, we are having INR 23.04 crore in this year. Other business in the air ticketing also has done well, and state period also segment has also picked up as compared to the INR 30 crore of the previous year. This year we have done INR 153 crore.
Entire put together, the tourism business has given us a revenue of INR 555.98 crore as compared to INR 187.89 crore of the previous year. We can expect more growth in this business because of the Bharat Gaurav being added in the fleet.
Right. Just last bit on the state comment that you made, ma'am. I think we generally see some more traction in the election period. Do we expect this since general as well as some state election are coming?
Like any other tourism product, it is also subject to season variation. I can only answer this at this juncture. It all depends on states, whether they want to spend their money in this direction or not. Generally, people work in this direction, so we hope for the good.
Right. Thank you. Thanks for the color. It's great being associated with you for so long. Thank you so much for your guidance through this period. Thank you, ma'am.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Madhuchanda Dey from Moneycontrol. Please go ahead.
Hello, ma'am. Yeah, I have a couple of questions. One is a housekeeping question. What was the absolute number of tickets booked in FY 2023?
Yeah, just wait for a while. I have to look for the number. The total tickets you said, booked in?
FY 20 23.
I'll get you the number. Samo, I think.
Yes.
INR 43 crore.
INR 43 crore. Okay. Ma'am, this year's Bharat Gaurav revenue is INR 60 crore. Is that right?
This year, the Bharat Gaurav train just started their operation. Earlier, we were running the same segment in the name of a Bharat Darshan and Pilgrim Special.
Okay.
That together was contributing not more than INR 60 crore, which is going to be now INR 250 crore -INR 300 crore , with the 10 rakes that we have taken from Indian Railways on lease.
Okay, that is your projection for FY 2024?
Yes, sir.
Okay, ma'am. You have answered all these questions very nicely on internet ticketing and also on the tourism side. Am I audible?
Yes, you are.
Yeah. My question is: What is your take on the growth in catering and Rail Neer for the next two years? What will be the driver, and what kind of growth rate can we expect?
We would be on the positive side in the Rail Neer , as we would be starting our two plants very soon. Bhubaneswar and Tinsukia, we are going to start this plant. Further, we are upgrading the capacity of the existing plant also, we are going to increase our production. Secondly, we are going to improve our capacity utilization by doing some operational measures. Our performance in the Rail Neer is going to be better side. As of now, we are producing nearly INR 15.52 lakh L a day, which we would be increasing, taking up to nearly INR 70 lakh L a day by the end of this financial year.
by 2025?
Yeah.
By 2025, what kind of capacity will be there for Rail Neer ?
2025, we would have ended all our plants, so we would be meeting the entire requirement. Nearly 80% of the railway requirement of the water will be met by all these measures that we are taking, then we will be serving nearly INR 18.5 lakh L water in a day. That will add a good amount of revenue to our team.
Got it, ma'am. What about catering? What are the future drivers? What can we look forward to?
The future driver in the name of a new train seat that is coming up, that is Vande Bharat, which is a prepaid train. We know that, there has been an announcement that many more new rakes are going to be inducted. That is going to add a fleet to our revenue, one. Secondly, the existing tenders, which have not, could not be done yet because of, because we are a small duration tender, that we are trying to wind it up. Now we are focusing in, not only on the revenue side, on the operational side also, so that we can provide better services to our customers and bring a good brand value to our businesses, in addition to the revenue.
Ma'am, my question is, from these initiatives, one is Vande Bharat and the pending tenders, what kind of incremental revenue are you looking at for FY 2024 to start with, and again, for FY 2025, what kind of growth can we expect?
As and when the tenders are awarded, the revenue gets added, ma'am.
Yeah, I understand. If you could give us some color on kind of growth that we are looking at.
Some numbers.
Not numbers, but some idea about the kind of growth.
Bidding process, ma'am. At times, vendors bid very high, then you get a good number. At times when the train doesn't is not having a good route, then it gets a less bid. Difficult to project. At times, the competition in one circuit is very high, you get a very, very high bid. Then the other processes also there. Maybe very difficult to predict. However, the growth will be there and a good amount of a growth more than I think 10% is going, we can anticipate.
One segment we are focusing is e-catering, where we have already reached to the extent of a 40,000 meals in a day. We are already providing, and in quarter four, the figure has been nearly 43,000 meals, and it is growing steadily. We have also started booking to our agents. These are B2C agents, which are there on our website, and the number of our vendors with our food aggregator has also gone up. The number of food aggregators has also improved. The direct vendor number is also improving, so you can anticipate some growth in this segment as well.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, we have reached the end of question and answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Very good afternoon once again. It has always been pleasure talking to all the investors and all the participants here. Sharing our experiences with the IRCTC has been one part, but at the same time, what market thinks about us and what are the queries of the market, we are more than happy to answer. Not only through the earning call, we are always open to share our experiences and our thoughts in the investors call also. IRCTC is a very transparent and open organization, and believes in the transparency as well. I welcome you all, and all the investors to be part of this journey, as you have been in the past, and show your patronage to this company as usual. Thank you very much, and wishing you all the good health to you and your dear ones.
Thank you, sir. Thank you once again.
Thank you. On behalf of IRCTC, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect.