Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon, and welcome to the IRCTC Q4 FY 2022 earnings conference call hosted by Dolat Capital. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Ryan. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Dolat Capital, we welcome you all to the Q4 and twelve months fiscal 2022 conference call of IRCTC Limited. I take this opportunity to welcome the management of IRCTC, represented by Rajni Hasija , who is CMD of the company, and Mr. Ajit Kumar, who is Director of Finance and CFO of the company. Now I would like to hand the conference over to IRCTC management to take the proceedings forward. Over to you, please.
Good afternoon, everyone. I hope you and your dear ones are in good health and spirit. I welcome you all to this conference call to discuss the performance of your company, that is IRCTC Limited, for the quarter and the year ended March 31, 2022. Yesterday, the company had announced the audited financial results for the fourth quarter and year ended on March 31st, 2022, and the same has also been disclosed on both the stock exchanges. Please allow me to share with you a brief overview about quarter four of fiscal 2022 and results of our company. Following this, our Director of Finance, who is CFO of the company too, will provide the details and performance of our business segments, for which we shall be having a question and answer session.
I begin with a brief view of the salient feature of our results, which you must have seen by now already, rather. In the last quarter of the previous financial year, IRCTC has been able to once again demonstrate its resilient business model. Though the impact of the wave three of the COVID-19 was there, we were a little lucky as the impact of the last wave was not that dangerous as the second wave was. Q4 financial year 2022's revenue was at INR 691 crores. It saw strong growth of 28% quarter-on-quarter, that is the consecutive quarter, and more than double on year-over-year, given that the base quarter had the impact of pandemic. The most important factor is that the revenue for the quarter four is just 3.5% lower than the pre-COVID level.
It means we are very near to the pre-COVID levels this, maybe this year. In quarter four of the financial year 22, the catering segment has been the main driver on the quarter-over-quarter revenue growth. As you would be aware that difference in the profitability, our business segment, the change in the business mix resulted in EBITDA margin coming to 40%, nearly 40% versus 42.8% year-over-year and 51.7% quarter-over-quarter. However, the absolute EBITDA of INR 277.3 crores was in line with, rather very much in line with INR 279 crores in the quarter three of the previous financial year.
Net profit before the exceptional item for the quarter four of the previous financial year came at INR 218 crores versus INR 209 crores in the quarter three of financial year 2022, and INR 107 crores in the quarter four of financial year 2021. For the financial year 2022, revenue came to INR 1,880 crores, that is 1,880 crores, which grew nearly by 1.4x year-over-year, given that the financial year 2021 had much severe impact of the pandemic as compared to the current year, the year passed.
EBITDA margin came to 46.8% versus 24.3% year-over-year, and the net profit before the exceptional item came to INR 667.7 crores versus INR 150.5 crores year-over-year. Importantly, the financial year 2022 net profit crossed the 19-20 mark of 528 crores also, which is a very good news to all the investors. The Board of Directors have recommended final dividend too. That is INR 1.5 per share, subject to shareholder's approval, which we would be taking in our AGM. That makes the total dividend per share is 3.5, because INR 2 we have declared as an interim dividend earlier.
As I have shared earlier that for the emergence of another wave of infection, the travel and hospitality industry can look forward for a much better financial year 2023 and beyond. IRCTC's business segment, catering, packaged water. Importantly, tourism can also look up to a better performance in such a industry environment as the things are now on a gradual improvement. I shall now hand over call to my colleague, the Director Finance and CFO of the company, Shri Ajit Kumar, to brief you on the financial and segmental performance of the company. Thank you very much.
Good afternoon, everybody. I hope you all are doing in good health. I will first give a brief overview about the Q4 FY 2022 results, after which we shall have the question and answer session. With Q4 FY 2022, revenue saw another quarter of strong improvement in its improvement, both on quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year basis. The revenue of INR 691 crore grew by 27% quarter-over-quarter and by 104% year-over-year. Given that staffing segment with a relatively lower margin that has seen the sharp increase in revenue share and overall EBITDA margin 40.1% versus 42.8% year-over-year and 51% quarter-over-quarter. However, we have been able to maintain the absolute EBITDA almost at Q3 FY 2022 levels.
Now the business segments of the company, the number one is the internet ticketing segment that has demonstrated its resilience amid the impact of third wave of infections. Revenue for the quarter was INR 292.8 crore, growing by 42.4% year-over-year and declined by 6.4% quarter-over-quarter due to lower ticketing volume. However, absolute EBITDA posted a slight growth, that is quarter-over-quarter, and EBIT margin came at 91.5% versus 84.8% quarter-over-quarter and 83.3% year-over-year. The staffing segment that has seen a sharp increase in revenue at INR 266.2 crore and grew by 1.5% quarter-over-quarter and just under 3% year-over-year.
This enabled the segment to further improve its EBITDA margin to 9.4% versus 5.5% quarter-over-quarter and loss on year-over-year basis. The share of staffing segment to overall revenue increased to 38.5% in the fourth quarter versus 19.4% in third quarter and 19.9% in fourth quarter of FY 2021. Now, given that is relatively lower margin, the overall margin has seen moderation in fourth quarter of FY 2022. Rail Neer in the quarter four revenue of INR 51.9 crore or -4% growth quarter-over-quarter.
Reported EBITDA loss came at INR 24.3 crore, but it was mainly due to the impact of that 15% railway share on profit of the previous year that is amounting to INR 27.13 crore was remitted back to railway, so that is the main reason. For further years it will be, I mean, good margin will be there. Tourism segment that has saw a growth of 10.1% quarter-over-quarter to INR 80.1 crore. Importantly, it continued to trim its losses and has almost was a breakeven level. The bank balances and net worth of the company as on March 31, 2022 is INR 172 crore and INR 1,884 crore respectively. That's the end of the opening remarks. Now we can straight move to the question and answer session.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question is from the line of Mr. Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead, sir.
Yes, congratulations on very strong numbers. My first question is related to the significant revenue traction in the catering business. In our earnings call on ninth February, we said we have not done assessment about the catering contract, but with the end of the quarter, we were able to see significant jump in revenues. What if you could explain what led to this massive increase and how many contracts have normalized to potential revised rates on the pricing?
Well, I can be proud of my team, if I say so, because when the cooked food started, it only started in the month of November. We made it effective gradually till December. From January to March, we saw a sudden jump because the fast tendering process being followed by IRCTC, where a lot of powers were delegated to the juniors. If you ask me how many tenders were finalized, the number is going to be in thousands. Because initially the tenders were given for a shorter period, then for six months, and now again we are going to start the process. The cooked food start was the main reason, and increasing the footfall at the station so that the static units can also be revived, was also the reason.
I give you the numbers. If you recall my earlier earnings call, where I used to give the numbers of the trains where IRCTC was providing the catering services. That was 417 only. We were not actually doing the TSE trains. As of now, IRCTC has taken up heavily on the TSE trains and more than 70 trains brought under the ambit of contracting. Out of which 596 tenders have already been placed and rest tenders are in finalization stage. It is the hard teamwork of the catering department and the tendering department that has resulted in this mobile catering increase in jump. Similarly, the static catering also picked up very well because the footfall has gone up and our formula was like that.
Once the footfall picks up, the licensing will also be restored to the previous level. This could be the reason, Mr. Jain.
Okay, that's quite helpful. Other than that, now when we see this catering revenue, can we say that the full quarter benefit has come into this number or March revenues are significantly higher than that?
No. Still is left because the process was gradual. It is only we started seeking them only in the month of January. Even then, the whole trains were not there. Like 150 trains under the TSE section would be completing their awarding this month. It is only in the month of July, and it is a continuous cycle. Few trains end up their contract early. It's a cycle. It is a continuous process. The complete process may be, we are hopeful that we'll be able to complete by June end. If not June end, at least July first week, we'll be able to complete the entire process.
Okay. Understood. Moving to the next segment, which is on this 2S side. As on the website, we can see that for 2S we are not able to book the ticket beyond thirteenth of June. Is that the last period beyond which we will not be booking tickets on the 2S category?
This is as per the guidelines issued by Ministry of Railways and different for each train actually. I will not be able to comment very specifically about it. I can tell you that in quarter three, our daily average ticket was nearly INR 13.69 lakhs. Now it is around INR 12.87 lakhs. The impact is not much as we had seen. In 2019-2020, when pre-COVID level, it was only INR 8.25 lakh tickets per day. Still there is a more than 50% jump as we see the pre-COVID level. Maybe by end of June, you say, it may drop, maybe by a few more thousand. Because
Yes.
Over a period of time, IRCTC has been able to gain the confidence of the people. Where the unreserved ticketing is there is unreserved ticketing. We can't help it.
Right. INR 12.87 lakh is daily for this quarter. That is what you shared.
Yes. Quarter four, the average has been INR 12.87 lakh only.
On the rail meal business, we saw this significant charge, which was for the railway profit share that we gave of around INR 270 million. Can you share more input in terms of what this charge is and what could be the recurring nature of this?
The IRCTC was supposed to share the profit on all the departmental catering segment. Initially all the plants, I think till 2009, all the plants were running in the departmental thing. We were, in any case, because you get a captive audience in the railway station, and we don't sell rail meals in the other sectors. The clientele is being brought to IRCTC by Ministry of Railways. Some sharing work to be done, which was part of the MoU signed in the year 2007 between IRCTC and Ministry of Railways. CFO in his beginning statement has also mentioned and given the figures of the amount.
If we calculate it from 2007 to 2021, the revenue that IRCTC has received from this packaged drinking water business is nearly INR 1,200 crores or so. Profit margins was nearly, I think, INR 180 crores or so. IRCTC, technically speaking, deducting all the payments towards the Indian Railways and compensating the losses in the departmental catering, came out with a figure of INR 24.46 crores, out of which INR 2 crores is to be adjusted, and it is subject to the reconciliation with the railways for which Ministry of Railways had sent invoice, so we have to pay that.
For the rest of the year now, I think it is going to be a regular feature, and we would be sharing nearly 15% of the profit of the railway segment with the Indian Railways, as per the MoU signed between us.
Can we say that this 15% is a net new charge which has come to us, which was not applicable till last year?
It was to be made applicable, but could not be made applicable because of the reconciliation process which got over.
Right.
It was happening on both the sides. Now it got over, reconciliation process could be completed. That is why these dues that were due on IRCTC, which were paid. Rail Neer segment continued to be a profitable business and the profit from the Rail Neer segment will be there. It is only the 15% of the profit may go there.
Now-
Which would be compensated by, I think, with the upcoming new more plans.
Right. Now, henceforth, whatever will be the, let's say, FY 2023, if we make INR 100 crore of profit, 15% before paying tax will be paid to government towards their share.
Okay. They share.
Share.
They share. Clientele is there. Station is there. We got a captive clientele. Otherwise, IRCTC is our.
Right. I can understand the rationale. I'm just trying to understand the mathematics.
Yes.
The 15% of PBT is what we will share with them.
Yes.
Okay. Not 15% of revenue on other line. It is 15% of PBT or PAT, whatever.
Yes, yes.
Okay. Just last one, question from my side. Any input we can share on the other income side, why we saw significant jump in that?
As usual, internet ticketing has been the major contributor.
70%.
70% of your earnings has come from there. Your earnings on all convenience fee and the non-convenience fee both have gone up. Like, convenience fee has contributed to nearly INR 694 crores, which is. Non-convenience fee revenues have been contributed to nearly INR 267 crores. Leaving apart, advertisement revenue has also gone up, has nearly matched the pre-COVID level, although it has not crossed. Our iPay, the payment gateway, has crossed the previous year level, the pre-COVID level too. Put together, we could earn, I think nearly more than INR 1,000 crores from the internet ticketing segment alone. This could be a main contributor. The activity in the tourism front has also gone up. In fact, it took off only in the month of February.
The impact of the COVID was still there in the month of January. Gradually, our trains are also picking up. Our all kind of a tourism is now back on track, as I told earlier also. I think put together, with the main contributor as internet ticketing, all vectors are contributing. The Rail Neer is also contributing to the revenue. The sale of the Rail Neer has also gone up.
Credit card INR 6 crore.
Yes. Our SBI credit card has also contributed INR 33 crores.
Right. As I said, ma'am, my question was more from the other income, non-operating income, which jumped from INR 16 crore to INR 25 crore in this quarter. Is there anything very specific or is this the new run rate?
Income-
Sir, it's only forfeiture of an EMD and tender.
Since we could finalize many tenders and could do the reconciliation process.
Mm-hmm.
Could complete the reconciliation process of many vendors also. This could be the forfeiture of security fee or EMD recovery. It is that income only. Because we finalize more tenders, income is more.
Advertising.
Got it. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'll fall back in with you.
I think any question.
The other income.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Jinesh Joshi with Prabhudas Lilladher Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. I have a question on the catering side. As per the news reports, which were published some time back, it was stated that Indian Railways had decided to take over the responsibility of setting up food plazas and fast food units from us in certain zones, citing delay from our end. What is the latest development on this side, if you can please share with us?
We were very fortunate to handle the situation because most of our tenders were in process. Not even for the single unit. The tendering process for all the unit was in process and at the advanced stage of tendering. As of now, not even a single food plaza has been handed over back to us, the railways. Rather, what was with the IRSDC, Indian Railway Stations Development Corporation, that food plaza has been now handed over back to IRCTC. It has not impacted us much. As far as the tendering is concerned, it is a continuous process. The contractor completes their contract period. Again, it is given on the contract. During COVID, many of our partners, service partners, have taken exit because there was no footfall at the station.
There was no revenue potential for them. They took voluntary exit. The security was also forfeited, etc., as per the rule. Fortunately, our advanced tendering stage and everything, the intention behind that letter could be that ministry wanted to ensure the passenger services, which we could restore in a very short time. We were already going in process of doing so.
Sure. Madam, secondly, if I look at our internet ticketing segment, it reports an EBIT margin of about 91.5% in Q4, which is higher than what we have been reporting in the recent past. Is there any element of one-off here? Secondly, I would also like to know what is our progress on our IT modernization CapEx plan. What is the total sum which we have earmarked, and how much do we intend to spend in FY 2023?
The revenue from the internet segment has been very good. It has been more because one factor was, since you had one more class, 2S, which was contributing nearly 36% of the total ticketing. Secondly, the overall ticketing, there is a gradual shift of the people from the offline ticketing to online ticketing. Our average has also gone up. In spite of the fact that the trains were, again, made underserved, we didn't see the percentage jump. If you compare my pre-COVID level figures of the internet ticketing, the average ticket booking per day was nearly INR 8.25 lakhs per day. Now in this quarter, in the last quarter, we could have INR 12.87 lakh tickets in a day. 50% increase alone is not because of that.
It is also because of the efforts taken by IRCTC team in gaining the confidence, and there is a transition from offline mode to online mode. Secondly, it is not only the convenience, it is the other earnings of the internet ticketing, like the agent charges, the mobile app integration charges, the PMP charges, all have gone up. We have introduced more and more partners and given a flexible policy. Similarly, the payment gateway charges share has also gone up because the number of transactions had gone up, so it has also gone up. Our marketing and advertisement income has nearly matched the pre-COVID level. Although the industry could come up only in the last quarter. In spite of the fact we could match the figure.
Had this been 9 months with us, we could have really done wonders. Our payment gateway and SBI Card has also. We have done much better than the pre-COVID level also. All these sectors have contributed together in giving the good figures for internet ticketing.
My question was on the margin side, but nonetheless, I'll take that later. If you can just answer that part with respect to CapEx plan. How much do we intend to spend?
Okay. I'm sorry, I missed that. The CapEx we had earlier planned, INR 100 crore. We are still on. Many of the items have been tendered. The tenders are on. We are also working parallelly on the DR side, for which the testing with the various partners have already been initiated. Our CapEx will be around nearly INR 80 crore-INR 90 crore this year.
Sure. One last question from my side. I think some time back, Indian Railways had decided to cancel a few passenger trains to allow for rapid movement of coal inventory to arrest the power shortages prevailing across the country. Basically my question is what proportion of our capacity was impacted due to this move, and currently are we back to full capacity?
No, no impact because generally the cancellation is nearly 19%. It remains the same. Similarly, the refund is nearly 18%. It just remains the same. We have not noticed any impact of this movement.
Sure, madam. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one. Our next question comes from the line of Madhu Dey with MC Pro. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good afternoon, ma'am. I have few housekeeping questions. One is pertaining to this 2S. In the fourth quarter, out of the average or the total internet ticketing revenue of INR 268 crore, what was contributed by 2S, if you could specify?
36%.
Even in fourth quarter?
Yes.
Okay. Both in terms of volume and value, there must be a difference in-
In terms of volume only.
Volume.
Value-wise, 2S is very cheap.
Exactly. Value-wise, what would it be, in terms of value?
Well, I'm not having the value-wise figure readily available with me. I cannot give this figure on the basis of approximation, actually.
Okay.
I don't have it, this value-wise figure. I can only give you the number of tickets as of now.
Okay. In this INR 268 crore, what was the convenience, non-convenience breakup for fourth quarter?
The total revenue from the non-conventional resources was not INR 267 crores. It is actually INR 337 crores.
That is for the full year, ma'am.
Yes.
Yeah.
I think what you're asking about the quarter. Quarter is around INR 98 crore. Quarter four was INR 98 crore out of which my contribution from the agent business was INR 17 crore. From my loyalty program and lead generation and few other things was around INR 75 crore. Advertisement was nearly INR 11 crore. My payment gateway contributed nearly INR 12 crore and put together INR 98.7 crore in quarter four.
Okay, ma'am. Ma'am, my other question is on the catering side, as you mentioned that you know you're going to reach pre-COVID by June end. Is there any other contract with the railways on the catering side also, where you could have some revenue sharing or anything of that sort on a future date?
In addition to catering, we have been given additional work of a retiring room upgradation. Earlier that was confined to few stations. Now it has been more and it has been given on a Pan India kind of a thing. We have started working on that. This is going to be an additional revenue source this year. The more tender we award, the more licensee is going to be there for the retiring room upgradation. Similarly, for more executive lounges, the way we launch, we will be adding more and more licensee also. In the catering, while mobile catering will be able to match up. During pandemic unfortunately, many of our contractors have exited from static catering business because the footfall at the stations had gone down.
We are trying to revive and bring back all the contracts in position and award all the contracts. In fact, many of them have been awarded also. They are in process of commissioning. You can foresee a jump or some good increase as far as the catering revenue in the static catering from retiring room, which it is, added in the catering revenue only and from the executive lounges also.
Ma'am, my question was, is there any revenue sharing with the ministry on the catering also?
We already share as far as the mobile catering is concerned. No new sharing has come up. The old trend is there. In mobile we continue to share 40% as we were doing on the pre-COVID level or now. Even in the departmental in the railway business we would be sharing only 15%. Even in the retiring room also some sharing is there. The sharing will be there as per the MoU signed between Ministry of Railways and IRCTC.
Yeah, that's what I was kind of trying to find out from you, ma'am, that in the mobile you share 40%. In the static, how much do you share with the Railways?
Again 40%.
In the new business ventures like retiring room and
Again 40%.
All 40%.
In e-catering 40% and in the retiring room also again 40%.
Okay. Ballpark.
In railway it is 15%.
Right.
Of the profit.
Up to 40% of catering PBT to be shared with the Railways and 15% of Railways PBT to be shared with the Railways, right?
Put together, correct.
Yeah. Ma'am, my one last question, if I may. What was the contribution of the Tejas in the quarter? Is it under the tourism segment that you put it under?
Yes, we put it under the tourism segment, though we have requested not to put it in the tourism segment.
Tejas Forum.
You need to be in the earth, isn't it?
Yeah. Auto FX.
Yeah. Tejas has contributed in the entire financial year INR 54 crores and in the last quarter INR 21.35 crores.
What is the kind of EBITDA or has it broken even? Any idea on any color on that?
Well, I think the train initially in the month of January was not done well because of the COVID apprehension. It is only in February, March we could do so there in the last quarter. As of now the train has shown an operating loss of nearly INR 4 crore. Which we would be recovering this year, this financial year, because now the bookings have gone up.
Okay. Thank you, ma'am, and all the best.
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Ayan Bira, an investor. Please go ahead.
Congratulations, ma'am, on the excellent set of numbers. I have a question regarding the average realization per ticket for this quarter. My second question is the EBITDA levels for the internet ticketing segment for this quarter.
See average ticket size.
Realization.
Average realization.
Okay. Nearly, I think it is nearly INR 38,000 crore which we realized from the Ministry of Railways. The total number of tickets that we issued was around INR 41 crore.
INR 41 crore for this year, right? For this financial year.
INR 71.74 crore tickets were issued by IRCTC this year. We realized for Government of India, Ministry of Railways around, say INR 38,000 crore. Number of passengers that we booked was INR 73.43 crore.
INR 16.30 crore realized. INR 16.30 crore realized per ticket.
It is nearly.
INR 16.6 crore.
INR 16.6 crore.
Per ticket.
Per ticket.
Okay, ma'am. It is INR 16.6 crore per ticket is the average realization.
Realization.
Okay. Ma'am, the EBITDA levels in this particular internet ticketing segment is relatively high, as you said. Can you give us the figure around? Because I think-
Nearly 90%.
Okay. Ma'am, another question is that, in the segment, two-way segment, you said that it contributed 36% of the revenue.
Yes.
I also would like to hear from you the respective contribution from the sleeper class, that is, non-AC class and 3 AC, 2 AC class.
That is 37%.
Sleeper is 37%.
37% in the last quarter.
37% sleeper class. Okay.
Yes.
For the AC classes is the rest.
I can give you the figure like this. We have first AC class that is called first AC and first class, and there's another EA. Put together nearly not even 1%. Second AC is 4.2%. Third AC is 17.7%. Chair car is 4.1%. There's another class, 3E. Anubhuti may be a class, put together 2.3%. You got it, sir? Hello? I think there is some disconnection.
Our next question comes from the line of DN Shah with SBI Global Trade Banks. Please go ahead, sir.
Thank you for giving the opportunity. Madam, what is the capacity utilization of Tejas?
Capacity now is nearly I think we call it occupancy level. That is another term. Now we are running more than 70%.
At what level it will break even?
Breakeven happens at more than 75%.
Okay, so we are very near to it. Can we
Very near.
Happen in this June quarter?
Hopefully, we are able to achieve this quarter.
Okay. One more question on the catering side. When this, you know, catering started from November onwards, it was licensed even at the old rate. I believe that the license revision as per the due dates was to happen sometime in this quarter or something. Have you already done that? Any reflection of that in March quarter?
It has started. We are nearly completing the phase. Maybe you may see the effect of that in the June end.
We'll get it from November onwards, everything in the June quarter.
Yes, sir.
Yeah. That, that's very nice to hear. Thank you. All my questions are answered.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Mayank, an investor. Please go ahead. Mr. Mayank, your line is unmuted. Please go ahead. Okay. The next question comes from the line of Om Prakash Kaveri with Spark Capital. Please go ahead, sir.
Yeah. Hi, madam. Good afternoon. One question on trade payables. When I look at the balance sheet, the FY 2021 ending trade payables has been restated. As per the previous financials, it was INR 180 crores. Now, in this Q4 results, I think that INR 180 crores is restated to some INR 580 odd crores. What is leading to this restatement in trade payables?
Previously, we are not taking the trade payables. We thought they are transferring to trade payables.
I would like DF to answer this. Director Finance will answer this.
It is only this data which we have transferred within different heads. Because earlier it was not showing properly. Now we have-
Okay.
Trade payables. Hello?
Going forward, the current classification would hold, right?
No, this current classification is now correct. We have, I mean, this old one.
This was on the advice of our statutory auditor.
Yeah, sure. Thank you. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Ayan Bira, an investor. Please go ahead.
Namaskar, Ms. Hasija.
Namaskar.
What is the average ticket booking in the 12 months?
In the previous quarter, sir, I just mentioned INR 12.87 lakhs tickets in a day.
Yes, I mean now, currently, what is the average of month April?
Sorry, I'm not carrying April figure. Before I go, I'll get you the April figure also.
Okay, ma'am. One more question, ma'am.
It is nearly INR 13 lakhs. Because it is a peak season, we have already been telling continuously that April, May are the peak season for us.
Every-
It has been rather more than the average booking also.
Okay. Thank you. One more question, ma'am. Ma'am, in third quarter, we have profit in Rain Neer, but in this quarter we mentioned loss. Then what is the reason this?
The reason is that the work of a Rail Neer we started in the year 2002 onwards. We and IRCTC and Ministry of Railways in the year 2007 had signed a MoU that for various businesses where railway is also contributing in the business, some profit sharing has to be ensured to the railway. As per that MoU, the profit sharing for the railway was to be ensured, for which some reconciliation was to happen, which earlier did not happen, now has happened. We can say reason for the last 15 years has been done. 15 years money has been transferred.
It is 15% of the PBT that we have given subject to reconciliation with the railways, though we have completed a major chunk of that. Henceforth, 15% of the net profit, of the profit, PBT in the railway segment will be shared with the railways also.
Okay, ma'am. Thank you.
Ji.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Ayan Bira, an investor. Please go ahead.
Yes, ma'am. You have said that for this financial year, 2021-2022, the convenience fee has gone up to INR 337 crore. There are some components of this convenience fee. There is a loyalty program. Can you elaborate on this loyalty program?
Loyalty program we have with the SBI Card, and now we have for the Bank of Baroda card also. This card, SBI Card is working with us since 2007 or 2008. There, when we sell some card with the value of, the value of the card is, initial or first year fee is INR 500 crore. There we get around INR 403 is with the IRCTC for selling the card. In the forthcoming year, some share in the annual maintenance fee that the bank charges from the customer is shared with the IRCTC. Whatever sale happens through IRCTC platform we share. In that segment we have already shared, we have already earned in this financial year around nearly INR 37 crore.
Okay. The advertisement revenue for this financial year, madam, any figure for the advertisement revenue?
INR 33 crores, sir. INR 33 crores, and we have nearly matched the pre-COVID level. That is, in pre-COVID level, this revenue was INR 34 crores. Now we have got INR 33 crores. But put together non-convenience revenues running, in the pre-COVID year, that was in 2019-20, it was INR 231 crores. Now it is INR 337 crores. You can see that we have crossed the levels of the pre-COVID also in the non-convenience fee section.
Ma'am, can you give a breakdown of the INR 337 crore? I want to know just the major components. Advertisement is thirty-
I will give you, sir. I will give you only major heads.
Okay. Yes, yes.
First is the agent business. In the agent business, when agents tie up with us, we take some fees. In that section we have earned around INR 173 crores. Right. In the payment gateway business also where we do lot of integration, individual integration, there we have earned around INR 56 crores, nearly INR 56 crores. From our marketing expense it is INR 33 crores. Loyalty program, INR 37 crores, I told you just now.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
ICICI, our payment gateway, INR 36 crore.
Okay.
Becomes INR 337 crores.
ICICI has been contributing of late.
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
And it is-
In 2019-20, ICICI contributed around INR 23 crore. This year it has contributed INR 36 crore.
Going by the trend in this non-convenience fee, I think the guidance for the next two, three years is quite lucrative. Maybe a 15%-20% growth in the non-convenience fee segment as well.
Even why we should not grow, I would say like this, because intention is to retain the internet ticketing business and simultaneously increase the non-convenience fee revenues so that, because a stage will come, we have already nearly 82% of the booking.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10%-12% booking is going to be offline always.
Yeah, yeah.
It's very hard, the increment in the booking is going to be maybe 1% or 2% every year. Our dependency on the convenience fee has to be shifted. That business will be with us, but we have to explore the other resources also. That is what we are doing. We have been able to do also. There is a good jump we have noticed this year. Nearly INR 100 crore jump is there.
Okay, ma'am. Thank you very much. Okay.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Jin Varghese with Earthwise India. Please go ahead.
Hi, ma'am. What I wanted to know is that, you know, the current tickets issued per day is about INR 1.87 lakh. Do you see this number growing substantially anytime soon?
See, in the month of April, because of the season, temporarily it has gone up to more than INR 13 lakh. In May also, I'm pretty sure, today I've not taken the figures, it is going to be nearly the same. But I think the second is not going to be there in the reserved segment. Some decrease may be noticed.
Okay.
By June 30, the things are going to settle. We will come to know as per my experience in this industry, in this work of ticketing goals, in any case it will be much more than the pre-COVID levels. It was only INR 8.25 crore because there has been a transition of a customer from the offline mode to online mode. The increase may not be as drastic as we have seen during the COVID period, because we have already achieved a very high level and reached up to the level of 82% of the total ticketing is happening through internet only.
The total availability is about INR 16 crore, INR 16 lakhs per day. Is it around INR 16 lakhs?
No.
Online plus offline.
Online and offline percentage is around 82% and 18%. 82% is online and 18% is offline, as of now.
Okay. In terms of your segment margin, you know, if you could give me an idea of what happened. The number seems to be at a high 92%. Can we expect this to be some kind of a normalized number, or is it a one-off event?
This could be because of the excess booking that you have achieved. Since you have achieved, so your payment gateway charges automatically goes up because more transactions have happened. If more transactions have happened, so your lead generation also goes up. You have more people online, so your loyalty program goes up. It is all related. It work in a cascading manner, sir.
Okay.
Once you are good at booking, the things start rolling after that and we start caching everything pertaining to that. The advertisement revenue also goes up because you have more clicks and more. Your own payment gateway is used by many. It is all correlated with the booking and with each other. It revolves around a center.
Okay. If you don't mind me asking another question. In terms of tourism and travel, do you see this number to be in a sense, you know, the market and in the sense the public have opened up. Do you see this number increasing any substantially, you know, since we have holidays too?
People have started holidaying. Inbound is not taking off that well. It is not the outbound also. It is the domestic tourism which is taking off very, very well. All our packages towards Char Dham. Earlier we were doing only by air. Now we are going to start with the bus service also. There's so much demand in the domestic segment that we also have to change our strategy to meet the requirements. The trains, et cetera, is already running. People want to have now some break. Maybe the COVID fear is gradually has gone or going away, so people are coming out in lots. Our Maharajas' Express is going to be on track soon. Golden Chariot, which we acquired from. Not acquired, rather we have taken for operation from Karnataka State Tourism Development Corporation.
That is also going to be on track soon. Our Buddhist train will also be there. We are also coming up with the new Bharat Gaurav and going to operate our first Ramayana, which would be linking two countries, India and Nepal. All our air packages are doing well. Our air booking is also, we are doing well. Things are now started improving from February onwards as far as the tourism is concerned. Actual results have been seen only in the month of April, not in the month of March.
In terms of margins from, you know, national or inbound or outbound compared to domestic.
Generally we keep 10% margin, but there are few products where we have crossed the margins of 20% also. There are few products. When the demand is more, we also try to play with margins. When the demand is less, we also try to reduce our margins. This, it depends on a product to product. We never charge less than 10%, that is for sure.
Thank you, ma'am. I'll fall back to you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Rattan Joneja with Co Value Technologies Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity and good day to you. My question is about on internet ticketing. What is the percentage of unreserved tickets to total tickets for Indian Railways, and what change do you expect? The second question relating to internet ticketing is, do you see any change in pricing, increase in pricing for your convenience fee going in the future, couple of years?
I will answer your second question first. We don't foresee any change in the pricing of convenience fee that we are charging from our customer as of now. As far as the percentage of the unreserved segment is concerned, it is correct. The 7% of the total inventory available. I'm telling you from my experience and which I have worked in the railway. Total, I think the 7% of the inventory is only reserved, but the revenue from the reserved segment is much more than the unreserved. That is the thing I have learned in Indian Railways that I can quote you. The exact figures you can see on the Indian Railways portal.
Do you mean to say 93% is unreserved tickets in India?
In unreserved also there are further segments, suburban, non-suburban. There are many segments. For that you need to see the Indian Railways portal, sir.
Do you see this?
We can only tell you about the reserved per segment.
Do you, over a period in the long term, five years, 10 years, 15 years, do you see this change coming? That unreserved percentages will start coming down.
Given an option to a customer, if the facilities are available and the confirmed travel is also ensured, why people will not get themselves converted to the reserved. When the unreserved were not there during the COVID period, people were traveling in the reserved, as reserved segment. Over a period of time, if the transition is happening, well, I am not a travel forecaster. Given an option to a person, the person would certainly like to travel in the confirmed kind of a setup rather than uncertain setup.
There is an opportunity of conversion. Because the trends will be-
There looks an opportunity. If unreserved trains get converted into reserved, there is an opportunity for us. Since it has been on the other side, we lost some chunk of that. Not the fully, but still we are much ahead of the COVID level, pre-COVID level. Side by side, Indian Railways have also started introducing many new trains with the modern technology and modern coaches. When such kind of facilities are available, people would like to try that also.
My other question was relating to you had launched bus ticketing. We have not heard or read what is the status of the bus ticketing business that we are getting into. Also, you had mentioned the hotel aggregation business. There was a lot of tie-ups that were happening with a lot of hotels. What is the status of that business?
In the bus ticketing, we have not only tied up with the redBus and the AbhiBus, we have also tied up with the various state tourism development called state STDCs, et cetera. I think seven states we have tied up, and we are also booking their buses. Bus booking has gone up after this. How much is it has gone up, I'll get you the figure in before we close.
Okay.
The revenue for the bus booking is INR 6 lakh per day.
All right. Thank you, madam. Thank you. Okay.
We are giving you the details.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question of the day. Now, I would like to hand over the conference to our management.
Well, thank you very much to all the investors for patient hearing, and I hope we have been able to clear all your doubts and able to address any query. In case of any further queries, you may also send them to our relationship officer, who can also send you a reply through email. However, I am also available round the clock, and all the queries you have can be answered. Staying with IRCTC is a good proposition as it was earlier. We can wish each other a very good luck for the coming year. Let's hope that the way the previous year has been very kind to us, the upcoming year will also be. Thank you very much, investors. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Dolat Capital, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.