Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to J. Kumar Infraprojects Limited Q3 and nine-month FY 2024 results conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. Before we begin, a brief disclaimer. The presentation which J. Kumar Infraprojects has uploaded on the stock exchange and their website, including the discussions during this call, contains or may contain certain forward-looking statements concerning J. Kumar Infraprojects business prospects and profitability, which are subject to several risks and uncertainties, and the actual result could materially differ from those in such forward-looking statements.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Kamal Gupta, MD, J. Kumar Infraprojects Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good morning, everybody. I am Kamal Gupta. On behalf of J. Kumar Infraprojects, I welcome everyone to the Q3 and nine-month FY 2024 earning conference call of the company. Joining me on this is Mr. Nalin Gupta, MD, Mr. Madan Biyani, our CFO, and our IR team. I hope everyone had an opportunity to look through our results. The presentation and press release have been uploaded on the stock exchanges and our company website. We are delighted to announce another quarter of strong and all-round performance for Q3 FY 2024, including top-line growth of 15%, improvement in our PAT margins to 6.8%, as well as further strengthening of balance sheet, including moderation in our working capital cycle days to 130 days as compared to 138 days in Q2 FY 2024. In fact, FY 2024 has been a historic year for us so far in terms of order awarding.
The company achieved the largest accretion in its order book and witnessed substantial revenue growth during nine months FY 2024. We have already been awarded projects worth INR 8,061 crores in current fiscal with robust bid pipeline suggesting further awards in the current fiscal year. We believe that India will emerge as one of the fastest-growing infrastructure drivers in the world, marked by an unprecedented investment going into virtually every part of its transforming infrastructure story, whether it is airports, ports, railway stations, metros, expressway, water treatment projects, or roadways. On the other hand, we believe that a sectoral shakeout, higher construction benchmarks, and rising pre-qualification standards have led to an industry-wide consolidation. This trend favors larger companies with robust balance sheets, enabling them to address even bigger opportunities and strengthen their market position.
Coming to the performance highlights for Q3 FY 2024, J. Kumar's revenue from operations for Q3 FY 2024 grew by 15% to INR 1,219 crore as compared to INR 1,062 crore in Q3 FY 2023. The operating margin for Q3 FY 2024 grew by 18% to INR 179 crore as compared to INR 152 crore in the preceding year. The PAT for Q3 FY 2024 grew by 16% to INR 83 crore as compared to INR 71 crore in the previous year. Coming to the performance highlights for nine months FY 2024, the revenue from operations for nine months FY 2024 grew by 13% to INR 3,454 crore as compared to INR 3,069 crore in nine months of FY 2023.
The operating margin for nine months FY 2024 grew by 14% to INR 501 crore, and the PAT for nine months FY 2024 grew by 14% to INR 229 crore as compared to INR 201 crore in nine months of FY 2023. Even the PAT margins have gone up as compared to previous years, it stands at 6.6%. The operating EBITDA margin also stands at 14.5% for nine months as compared to 14.3%. For Q3, the EBITDA margin stands at 14.7% as compared to 14.3% of the preceding year. Our total order book as on December 31, 2023 stands at INR 16,744 crore. The order book includes metro projects contributing around 30%, elevated flyovers, corridors contributing around 34%, roads and tunnels contributing around 25%, and others contributing 12%. We now begin with the question and answers. Thank you.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir. Sir, before asking a question, just a clarification and also a request. The clarification is order book in presentation, page 13, we have mentioned INR 16,774 crore, but in the press release it is INR 16,744 crore order book. So what's the right number of order book?
INR 16,744 crore is the right figure, Shravan. Maybe one-
Okay. Second is, sir, this time we have removed the project-wise order booking from our presentation. If you can continue the previous policy, it would be better for all the investors and analysts in terms of the project-wise forecasting the revenue. That's the request.
Yes, Shravan. This time we are giving it segment-wise because it has been decided in the board that it should be given segment-wise since the projects are increasing.
I know.
Yeah. Looking to everything as also we decided giving it segment-wise, and if anything particular you require project-wise, you can get in touch with our finance team, they will give you whatever details are required, sir. No worries.
Okay. Now coming to in terms of the, just wanted to check on the guidance. For this year, we previously had said INR 4,800 crores revenue and 14%-15% EBITDA margin and for FY 2025, 16%-17% revenue growth and 15%-16% EBITDA margin. What is the revised number?
Well, we stick to the guidance given by us of around 15% growth for the FY 2024, wherein we should be around INR 4,800 crores is the top line, with a 14%-15% EBITDA margin. If you look at the EBITDA margin of the current quarter of Q3 also, you will find it is at 13.7%. We are working hard towards achieving these margins, and we are very confident with the current order book. For this year, we will be able to maintain EBITDA of 14%-15%, and in the coming 6-8 quarters, we will be trying our best to take this EBITDA margin from 14%-15% to 15%-16%. With the order books that we have bagged, we are quite expecting that we will be able to achieve this 15%-16% EBITDA in the coming 6-8 quarters.
For FY 2025, again, I think this is too early for us to comment on this number as of now because the new orders that has come will take some time to get materialized into terms of revenue. So, I think Q1 will be the right time to really talk in terms of the exact numbers where we will be achieving for FY 2025. But yes, 15% is surely what we are, 15% plus on the higher side, we should be expecting it offline.
Okay, got it. On the order inflow, so already received is number is the INR 8,061 crores. But in terms of how much is L1, I think Hari Nagar and Delhi Transport, what's the value? How much is the L1 projects?
We are L1 in projects worth around INR 3,024 crores, wherein there are two projects of Hari Nagar bidding projects for NBCC. There is a coastal road project that we are L1 into, the Mumbai coastal road from Versova to Dahisar , which is from BMC. The other coastal road project that we have bagged is from CIDCO, which is for the Navi Mumbai side, coastal area. All these four projects put together could be around INR 3,024, where we are L1 and we expect substantial order out of this to be converted into the order book within this quarter itself.
Okay. So CIDCO value is how much?
INR 915 crores.
INR 915 crores CIDCO. Hari Nagar is INR 270. Delhi Transport, sorry sir.
Hari Nagar is like, you know, there are two projects. Now both the projects put together is around INR 830 crores plus GST. Without GST, yeah.
Okay, INR 830. Delhi Transport, that is already converted into LOA?
No, this is L1 position, Shravan.
Yeah. Okay.
[inaudible]
Okay. Now, how much more we can look at in terms of bagging in next two months, and how much value of projects that we have already bidded where the bid is yet to open, and how much are we planning to bid?
We have already bidded for projects worth around INR 3,100 crores in different parts of the country. That are there, and within these two months, we expect further around projects of around INR 5,000-INR 10,000 crore in this 2-3 months, is what we are expecting. These projects will be depending upon when is the final date of submission, but there are some MSRDC jobs, some BMC jobs, and some other jobs that we are in the process of bidding.
Okay. Got it. Now, a couple of balance sheet items, if you can help me. Inventory, absolute inventory, trade receivable, trade payable, mobilization advance, retention money, and unbilled revenue.
Inventory, Shravan, is almost INR 998 crores both put together. You can hear me, Shravan?
Yeah. INR 998, so in September it was INR 367. Against that, what is the number of inventory?
I told you, no stores and all is almost INR 447 crores. Work in progress, if you call unbilled revenue also, that is around INR 550 crores. This put together is INR 998 crores. Trade receivable is INR 1,200 crores or so.
Trade payable?
INR 500 crores or so, trade payable.
Okay.
And if you talk about mobilization advance, that is INR 380 crores or so.
Okay. And retention money?
Retention money, the receivable side is INR 90 crores.
Okay. In terms of the CapEx till date, how much we have done and how much more we are looking at for FY 2025 GMLR now, if anything has been finalized, so how much we can do? Last time we said INR 350 crore-INR 400 crore can be done for FY 2025.
For GMLR, basically this CapEx is not yet finalized the order, but the CapEx will happen in one to two years' time. INR 400 crores.
In nine months, how much we have done and how much is left for the fourth quarter?
INR 33 crores is what we have done in nine months and INR 11 crores in Q3.
In the fourth quarter, how much more we will be doing?
We have a guidance of INR 150 crores, Shravan, for FY 2024.
Okay.
In the fourth quarter. But I think it will be slightly reduced, so let's see how much we've done. Maybe something will spill over to the next year.
Okay. Got it. Thank you, and all the best, sir.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir.
Yes, Parikshit.
My first question is on the total bid pipeline. Kamal, over the next six months, we are entering an election season, so how do you see the bid pipeline, total prospect pipelines for you?
We are looking to a bid pipeline of around INR 30,000-INR 35,000 crores in coming 6-9 months.
What will be the guidance like for this year, sir? Any revised guidance for the order inflow for FY 2024, and how much you are expecting growth on that in FY 2025?
We have already secured projects worth INR 8,000 crores in FY 2023, FY 2024. We are expecting by the year-ending closing by FY 2024, it should be INR 10,000- INR 11,000 crores order inflow, taking our order book to around INR 17,000- INR 18,000 crores. For coming year, we are expecting around INR 6,000- INR 7,000 crores of additional inflow on a cumulative side. Let's see how it comes and what are the opportunities coming after the elections.
Okay. This is the last question, sir. I think in the past few quarters, we had embarked on transforming our audit processes, and we had hired internal auditors, I think, Big 4, and we start the journey of moving towards a Big 4 auditor in our company entity. How is the journey where we are in the transformation now? When do we expect any decision being taken on that?
With auditor's appointment, you must be aware as per the rotation policy as per the Companies Act. The existing auditor, as we checked, very soon would be completing that rotation cycle. You are right, we are already in our process to assess as per the company's drawings and all. We are waiting for that rotation of the last auditor to complete, after which the board and the management will take an appropriate call.
In fact, we have already taken Deloitte as our, for internal-
Internal audit.
management audit. For the transition, Parikshit, like we are having that labor and the transition should be smooth. Deloitte is already on board for our internal management reviews, audits. It should be done soon, yeah.
Okay. This is the last question, sir. How has been the payment cycle? If you can give some color around what kind of debt numbers you are looking at the year-end and on the working capital side. Do you see any challenges are there or everything is smooth now in terms of collections, payments from clients?
Debt for the year-end should be around INR 650 crores. The working capital cycle impact has been reduced from 150 days to 130 days now, Parikshit. Payments are coming smooth. Payments, doesn't look to be any issues in any of the departments that we are working.
Okay, sir. Thank you and wish you the best. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thanks, Parikshit Kandpal.
The next question is from the line of Vivek Gautam from GS Investments. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. First of all, I just wanted to know what is the impact this having same state government of a double-engine government, both at center and state, is having on our order book and especially in states we are in. What about the states where the government is of different party other than BJP in center. What is the impact it is having? Second thing is about the receivables and the concerns which are there in this particular sector on write-off, receivables, better days. How are we planning to tackle that, sir? How good is this double-engine government for us, sir, in our business, sir? Yeah. Thank you.
Well, Vivek, I think more than what we would say, what is seen in the industry is quite obvious that all the political parties coming. They have to push the Indian infrastructure, actually main sector from where the entire focus and the board bank comes in from. If you look at the entire last 10 years, there has been a good growth overall in terms of Infrastructure segment, and the government is increasing more and more money into this sector because that is the only sector through which the employment generation and a chain effect of giving business to the entire industries comes in from. If you look at our order book itself and overall, in terms of the other competitors as well, you will see that the order books are going high for most of the companies.
Political parties changing, I think this is my personal view, that there is not going to be any impact whether BJP comes or any other government for that matter, because everybody has to show a growth in the Infrastructure segment wherein we would get a chance for the next term. As far as J. Kumar is concerned, we have been having decent relations with all political parties in terms of doing a good work with good speed and quality. We don't see any reason where in the coming this financial year also, there would be any impact on the order books or revenues.
What about the receivable issues, debtor days and other concerns plaguing the sector of infrastructure?
In that way, I did not get your point. What issue are you trying to address?
Basically, our company sector is in the infrastructure, wherein delayed payments, high debtor days, receivables, write-offs have been an issue, sir, so in the past, sir.
When you talk about government sector, Gautam, you will not find any write-offs or receivables happening or something like that. It is 43 years we have been working into government sector, and there have not been any abnormal delays in payment or any bad debt sort of situation which has ever been seen. Sometimes it happens if there are some variations or any sort of change of scope that happens. In that condition, there are some payments being delayed due to the finalization of rates or something like that. Otherwise, on a monthly basis, the routine billing cycle is going on, and the receipt is also happening in a comfortable way.
The consolidation in the sector is helping our company also, sir?
Yeah, absolutely.
Sir, one more thing, sir, is on the past, if I go through, because I have recently started tracking the company, so pardon me for the same. In the past, there were some serious issues on the SEBI and other people had raised that query. All those have been sorted out, sir, and what was the issue and how did we sort it out, sir? Just give comfort on the-
Mr. Vivek, this is a very old issue of 2015, 2016, where all this BMC blacklisting or of the SEBI misunderstandings, whatever were there, those all are well sorted, and the blacklisting has been completed in 2019, and we have back orders from the same department of around more than INR 6,000-INR 7,000 crores. There is no reason of being worried about the BMC issue because it is deep into the grave, and these problems have well been sorted. There were issues which have already been sorted. SEBI also, there is no issue, and it has been already closed from all the ends.
Excellent, sir. If you can just highlight some USP of our company. For example, the experience and the infrastructure we have for the tunnel boring machine, I believe others are not having. If you can just highlight the differentiating factor and the USPs. In the Delhi region where I stay, I believe the project execution work has been done at a very good pace. Is it true that Dwarka Expressway work, we had taken over from our big competition, and still we have been able to execute it on time, sir?
Yeah, Mr. Vivek. As what you're rightly saying, J. Kumar works in a very niche area. We don't do normal conventional road work. We are only into structures and complicated projects and very prestigious projects. If you see all our projects, whether it's the Dwarka Expressway, whether it's one of its kind of projects, wherein one civil engineer will see all sort of structures in one particular project. We believe in latest technology, novel ideas, first of its kind work. We are doing the first ever shallow tunnel of 3.5 kilometer in Dwarka Expressway, Delhi. This GMLR project of Mumbai is the first biggest ever tunnel boring machine in India, which we bought 14.5 meter tire. This is again with J. Kumar. We have been doing these metro stations, which was first done by us with complete precast technology.
Again, this is started recruiting by other peer competitors and departments. Chennai project is again a 20-kilometer elevated double-decker flyover, elevated corridor along the Cooum River. We believe in doing all these complicated and technically challenging projects. This is what you're asking, right?
Yes, sir.
Also I would like to mention that for tunneling, we are among the only two companies in India who has a huge fleet of tunnel boring machines, and J. Kumar is one of the only companies, I would say, who is doing the smallest tire of tunneling, tunnel boring machine jobs in India to the largest dia tunnel ever been constructed in India of 14.5 meter. Even the coastal road project, which is only the tunnel work is executed, and the other tunnel works which are going on pan India, including Mumbai of Thane Borivali or Orange Gate or any other project, at around 10- 11 meters. This is a 14.5 meter huge dia tunnel, which has never been ever constructed in India, and we have taken up this job.
As Mr. Kamal has already mentioned, we take up only niche, complicated jobs, wherein we are able to do these jobs in a much better way and make good EBITDA margins of what we have been doing.
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Gautam.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. My first question is on the bid pipeline. You said that you are looking at INR 30,000 crore, INR 35,000 crore worth of projects. Is it possible to give some granular details about this bid pipeline segment-wise, which are orders that you think which are sizable or which you think it should get closed? We understand that given the election, most of the companies are saying that there is a delay in closure of civil work, there is a delay in finalization, and this delay can sustain for the next 8- 9 months.
As rightly told by you, Mr. Mohit, because of the elections, these two months, that is March and April, will be cooling period, wherein they cannot award any new contracts or they cannot come out with any new contracts. Of course, the project which has been in pipeline, the process will go on. That is one. What we have been saying is, in coming nine months, we will be bidding for around INR 30,000 crore, INR 35,000 crore for projects. That includes lot of verticals, whether it is metros, elevated corridors, tunnels, building. MMR region itself has a lot of projects coming up. The metro itself is like MMR is coming up, new metro lines. Agra is coming up with new metro lines. Delhi Metro is coming up with new metro lines. The bigger ones only I am talking. Mumbai MMR region, Pune Metro is coming.
Nagpur.
Nagpur is coming, and MMR, you must be aware of this multi-modal corridor that is from Virar to Alibaug, that is the Pune ring road. This project worth at around-
INR 30,000 crores.
INR 30,000 crores. This itself. We have already been qualified in these and the bidding will be started. This will be the bigger ones. We will be also coding for some elevated sections in Mumbai of BMC and MMRDA. Also, we will be coding for some tunnel projects of MoRTH and MSRDC, which are in pipeline. There are some buildings projects of railway stations and hospital buildings. These are the projects what we are intending to build in coming nine months, Mr. Mohit.
Sir, is there a significant pipeline of railway station redevelopment? Are we bidding for it?
Sorry. Can you come back?
Is there a significant pipeline of railway station redevelopment?
Yeah.
Are we bidding for it?
Yeah, Delhi Railway, we are trying. There are some qualification issues, but we are trying for that, Mr. Mohit Kumar.
Understood. Last question from the CapEx side. I think you mentioned, just clarifying, this INR 150 crore this year. What is the number next year, sir? INR 200 crore. Is that the right number?
Capx?
CapEx, yeah.
We were looking for around, in coming year, apart from our routine maintenance CapEx of INR 150 crore, we are looking for around INR 350 crore to INR 400 crore in coming two years. So next year may see around INR 250 crore of CapEx, you are right. That is mainly because of the GMLR project, where we have to purchase the tunnel boring machine. Because that is a unique type of machine, and we have to buy for this specific project.
Understood, sir. Thank you and all the best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vasudev from Nuvama. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity, sir. Most of my questions are answered. Just two questions.
I am sorry, I am not able to hear you. Can you please Your name, please?
Hello.
Yeah. Please carry on.
Yeah. I was saying that just two questions from my side. Firstly, what is the status of the appointed date for our Chennai NHAI order that we got?
It is 23rd November 2023.
We have received for all the four orders?
Sorry. All the four orders. All the four projects on the same day. You are right. All the four packages on the same day.
Sir, just out of the total order book, what is our current order book under execution?
Total, on company level you are saying, right?
Yes.
I would say this coastal road and GMLR, where the work has been recently awarded. Chennai also, we have started the work.
[inaudible]
I would say out of the INR 17,000 less
INR 17,700.
Yeah, so around INR 17,000. So 17 minus, I would say around seven. Chennai has also started, so GMLR, the preparatory work has started, but all other works, so around INR 13,000 crores.
So all INR 13,700 crores projects have started. Of course, that is what Mr. Nalin Gupta is saying. Some of the new projects of GMLR and [inaudible], the projects have started, so the revenue generation will be after two, three months. But the projects are all started. All the projects what we are talking are started, INR 16,744 crores.
Okay, sure, sir. That is from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rehan from Equity. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Just a quick question on page 13 of the presentation. I can see that the segment-wise breakup, metro cumulatively is 29%. It is slightly lower than our average because we are stronger in the Metro segment. Any reason for the same, or do you see any projects coming up or orders that coming up which will take this number to higher of the entire pie?
Mr. Rehan, it is not only about metro. See, it is all about the opportunity and our strength in the particular sector. As we told, we work in very niche area where there is some engineering required. When we got this opportunity of two, three bigger projects of this INR 3,700 crores of elevated corridor of double decker at Chennai, and the biggest tunnel project of India, that is the GMLR project, so we grab this opportunity. Wherever we get this good opportunity, the mix keeps changing. Metro, of course, we are strong. Metro flyovers are big similar projects in terms of equipments and technology. These are similar sectors.
Okay, got it. Second question would be on the part of the execution, how does a company of such a high caliber scale up their execution? We see a robust order book and we see the order inflows repeatedly increasing. How do we see faster execution? What are the bottlenecks that J. Kumar would have to clear for faster execution?
I think, Mr. Rehan, we are already on a very fast-track execution. We are urban contractors. If you see, we are not working much in greenfield. In urban contractors, we do quantify these timelines before bidding only, and well works with this. That is why if you see our margins are better because we utilize our resources much better as compared to the peers. The pace of the execution is also going very well and very fast according to us this year.
Okay.
All this work that we have taken up, the new projects also, like the Dwarka project has almost been completed. It is just some handing over things are going on. For our Chennai project also, we have already mobilized. The same team has started mobilizing and executing the work at Chennai. For GMLR also, which is the same tunneling job like an underground metro. As J. Kumar, we have been quite experienced contractors into this metro sector for more than around 12 years now. All these works are the routine work that we have been doing at a bigger scale. All the key position team has already been appointed on these projects. We have taken up well, properly with setting up of casting yards and all activities have started.
There is no reason why we should be concerned about the progress or about the scaling up of this execution.
Got it.
We are quite confident to take it up very comfortably.
Got it. Out of this current order book, as someone asked in the queue earlier as well, the executable orders, out of the entire order book of INR 16,000 crores- INR 17,000 odd crores, there are no blocks in any of them? Have we started foundation or any basic structure in all of the projects? Is there some bottlenecks, some permissions lacking part of the order book?
All are into execution, so there is no stalled projects at all.
No bottlenecks.
One project of coastal CIDCO was waiting for the permission for like six, eight months before, but even that is executed two weeks back. Even that is started. All the preparatory works of the new projects have started and where the project was like four, five months back, the foundations have also started.
Great. Thank you, sir. Thank you so much.
Right, Rehan.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jinesh from Nivesha. Please go ahead.
Is my voice on?
Yes, sir, you are audible.
I just wanted to get a view on competitive scenario in underground and elevated metro projects. This is my first question.
What exactly do you want?
Jinesh, in terms of competition, I would say competition is there everywhere, and no sector is such that there is no competition, I would say. But when it comes to larger projects, I think the area of competition into the larger projects is comparatively less, I would say, or more reasonable, I would say, because the qualification to, I would say, J. Kumar and L&T, we are among the two companies who have such larger certificates in single ticket size of having previously executed work, where the amount of contractors bidding for such type of work is quite rational bidders, and not erratic bidding that you see or unreasonable bidding.
Competition is there, but metro sector and the areas where J. Kumar expertise into, like I would say, the elevated corridors, expressways, or where more structures are involved, tunneling is involved, these areas are expertised area of J. Kumar. There is a fair competition, I would say, and not unreasonable as compared to the road sector that you can see.
Correct. Thank you, sir. Could you please elaborate on the margin difference in underground as well as elevated metro projects?
Well, if you see, Mr. Jinesh, J. Kumar, we work with an average EBITDA margin of around 14%-15%, which we are further trying to scale up, and that is a margin, that is an average margin that we make on these overall works. Some projects would also give you 18%, some will give you 12%. As a specific, we cannot say what is the difference between underground and elevated. On an average, we can say around 14%-15% is the bidding range through which we bid for, and that is how we have been able to sustain. Again, there are economy of scale, better optimum utilization of your resources. All this put together is what we mean this margin of 14%, 15%.
Correct.
We also about what opportunity is there to optimize your designs and do some value addition. That may be also in underground or maybe also in an elevated corridor, Mr. Jinesh.
Okay. Thank you, sir. The last question. How do you see this metro division going ahead in your order book in couple of years further?
So there is lot of opportunities all across the country. Even if you talk of Bombay, Bombay is coming up with new metro lines, metro line 10, 11, 12. Pune Metro is further going up for the next phases. One of the tender we will be submitting in a week's time. Actually, the submission was tomorrow, but it's been shifted by around a week. Again, we are bidding for Bhopal, Agra, Patna. So metro works you can see all across. And I think for another 10 years down the line, this sector is going to keep booming because it's not restricted to tier 1 or tier 2 cities anymore.
And again, for these opportunities, it is at a national level, there are so much of infrastructure works all over that the percentage that you see that has been dropped at 29% is because of the other bigger ticket size order books that we have bagged. So that doesn't mean that the metro sector is going down or something. It's basically the type of works that we have bagged, like this tunneling job of GMLR and the Chennai Elevated Corridor. The ticket sizes are so big that these two works constitutes around INR 7,000 crore. So that's how the percentage metric seems to be that metro is going down. But that's not so.
And we will continue to be in metro for-
Because that's one of our very specialized area with all the equipment, plant and machinery that we have for those zones. But as Mr. Kamal mentioned, it's also been utilized into like the elevated metro or the elevated flyover. Similar types of plant and machineries are required. So utilization of that is happening to be optimum. So that's what we are interested for.
Okay. Thank you so much, sir, for the clarity. All the best. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Jinesh.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mahesh from LIC Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Sir, just want to understand how much is the non-fund based bank limits as of now?
One billion, Mahesh. One billion.
You want the fund-based and non-fund based limits?
Yes, sir.
We have a sanction limit of around INR 3,600 crores, wherein 73% has been utilized, that is around INR 2,600 crores. What else do you want out of it?
No, no, I just wanted that. I mean,
Okay.
We are just at 73% of that, right?
Yes.
Okay. Sure. And sir, we have an ambitious target of achieving $1 billion of revenue by 2027. So in this journey, we need to raise any fund for this or internal accrual will be sufficient for us?
Right now we don't have any plans, and our internal accruals are good enough to sustain the thing. But let's see going forward how it works.
Sure, sir. Thank you so much.
Welcome, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Viren Shah from Periscope T he Family Office. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Am I audible?
Yeah, Mr. Shah.
Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I had a question that it seems that there is a 50% jump in interest cost year-on-year. Is the company planning to use more debt and increase the leverage to boost the profit, or do you have plans to reduce the debt in future? I understand that there is a lot of CapEx going on, and that's why you might need debt. Do you have any plans to bring that down in the future?
The debt. If you look, we are at a very comfortable debt equity of 0.24. What else was the question? I'm a bit confused, Mr. Shah?
The interest cost through the income statement. The interest cost, there is a 50% jump in interest cost. It was INR 33 crores this year, and in the third quarter FY 2023, it was INR 22 crores. That's why I have got this question that is there increase in leverage?
Yeah. This was particularly for some additional we have secured some NCLT projects in liquidation. So basically a loan of INR 90 crores for that. So that was the processing and the interest fee what we have paid. So probably that has made it jump. So we are very much conservative and sure to maintain this interest cost well within the limit, Mr. Shah.
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aman Aggarwal, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir.
Yeah, Aman.
Sir, any visibility for the order book of INR 20,000 crore? Can we achieve that by 2027?
Visibility for 2027?
Yeah.
Yeah. We are looking for an order book of around INR 25,000 crore, by FY 2027. Yeah.
Okay. In the presentation that has been shared on the website, basic website, we have a PAT margin of 6.7.
You are not audible so well. Can you be a little louder, please?
Yeah. Am I audible now?
Mm. Yeah.
We have a PAT margin of 6.7% as of FY 2023.
Yeah, FY 2023.
Can we say we can achieve a higher margin in the coming year, in FY 2024 or FY 2025?
If you see our operating margin also, which was 14.3 or 14.5, has gone up to 14.7 this quarter. We are expecting a higher margin and better, since our margins have already been improved, and we are expecting to further improve our margins in coming quarters. As Nalin has already told before, in coming six quarters, we are planning to have an improved margin of 15%-16%, which was earlier 14%-15% operating.
Okay, great. Thank you, sir.
Welcome.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Reuben Mathews from Equity Intelligence India Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Good afternoon. Just a simple question. I read in the news that you had recently acquired Pranav Construction. Do you mind just sharing maybe the idea behind it? How would this benefit JKIL?
Well, Reuben, we have acquired this company called Pranav Systems, which is into fabrication and manufacturing of formwork systems and centering systems. This is a company which is doing an excellent job in terms of high-precision molds and shuttering centerings. This company went into the NCLT, and we have acquired this for looking at the nature of work that we are into. It was a value for money deal. We have acquired this, and this will help in having assurance in terms of the dependency that we have on the timely delivery of molds, shuttering, and centerings for all our elevated and underground projects.
Okay. There's no liabilities that come with this, right? I mean, since you took it from the bankruptcy court.
The only liability that we have to pay against this acquisition, which also includes the-
Ladies and gentlemen, management line has been disconnected. Reconnecting. Ladies and gentlemen, we have connected the management line. Over to you, sir.
Yeah. Mr. Mathews?
Yeah.
Yeah. So what I was saying was that the total cost of acquisition for JKIL for the Pranav Company is INR 45 crore. So any liabilities that was being borrowing for Pranav is their obligation. Our total cost of acquisition is INR 45, which includes the entire assets, the factory, all the machineries that this company has. I think it is a good deal that we have bought from.
Oh, okay. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask question. The next question is from the line of Abhishek from Hem Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Congratulations for great set of numbers. My question is regarding our order book of INR 16,700 crores. Maharashtra share is 58%. Sir, are we planning to diversify to more geographies?
Mr. Abhishek, as you must have seen, we have expanded geographically also and sector-wise also. Initially, we were only into transportation. Then, as you know, the share which has changed now. South, we took a small work in Bengaluru first, Karnataka. Now we took a big portion of INR 3,570 crores of NHAI project in Chennai. Again, we took an additional project in Chennai of INR 560 crores. We are right now working in Chennai, sorry Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Maharashtra in a big way, NCR, Delhi, Lucknow, [inaudible] U.P., and Gujarat. We have already spread our wings in all these states. Further also, if we get good opportunity, we are bidding for those projects, and given opportunity, we will go for that.
Okay. Sir, we are bidding for Madhya Pradesh metros also, Bhopal and Indore?
Yeah, we have bidded for Bhopal metro.
Bhopal tender has already been bidded by us, and the bids have to open.
Okay, sir. Next question is regarding, sir, are we also bidding for airport projects?
Airports, most of the projects in airports nowadays are into privatized sector. Because of that, there are no huge opportunities as such due to this sector. But whenever there are some private works or government works coming up, we will try for it.
Okay. And sir, what will be our peak debt level for FY 2025?
Our debt level right now is INR 622 crore, and by FY 2025, we expect it to be less than INR 650 crore only.
Okay.
FY24.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
By the year end.
Okay.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Khushbu Gandhi from Share India Securities Limited. Please go ahead. Sorry, ma'am, you are not audible. Please use handset.
Am I audible?
Yes.
You are not audible, ma'am.
Yeah. [inaudible]
Ma'am, you're not audible. We're not able to hear you clearly.
[inaudible]
[inaudible]
I request you to reconnect again in the queue, please.
Yes.
The next question is from the line of Chirag Singhal from FirstWater Fund. Please go ahead.
Am I audible?
Yeah, very much.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, just one question on the revenue guidance. What is the revenue guidance for next year?
The revenue guidance for next year again will be, as Mr. Nalin told, 15% plus. So like this year, we are targeting around INR 4,800 crore. So there will be a 15% plus jump for the next year also.
Got it. You also said INR 6,000, INR 7,000 crore of order inflow. So that was for FY 2025, right?
Yes.
For the coming year.
Coming year.
Got it, sir. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Sir, what is the cash level as on December?
Around INR 520 crore, which includes FD and all other cash and time balances. INR 530 crore, I would say.
Sorry, INR 530 crore?
INR 530.
Okay. In terms of the working capital days, I think you have mentioned 130 days. Sorry?
130.
Yeah. Any further reduction is possible because previously we were looking at around 120 odd days.
Yeah.
Just trying to directionally, there is still scope to reduce.
It is possible. Our target is to achieve around 120-125 days, Mr. Shravan. That is right.
Okay. In terms of the fund base limit, so last time it was INR 967 odd crore. Is the number same and how much we have utilized?
Fund base is INR 976 crore is the limit and INR 420 crore is utilized now, which is 43%.
Okay. INR 420. Okay. In terms of, particularly this Chennai Elevated where we have got the appointed date. So we will be definitely seeing a revenue booking to be there from this quarter Q4 onwards.
Yeah. From Q4, there will be some revenue booking. You are right.
Okay. And sir, broadly, any projects which are likely to be completed in the next 3- 6 months. If you can highlight the couple of projects which will be completed, like line 5 and 6 underground.
We have recently opened the Navi Mumbai Metro rail and coming to the Mumbai Metro Line 3, that is from Colaba to Sewri, the first phase of 12 kilometers from Sewri to BKC, the trial run will be started in this month, February only, and I think it will be done by Honorable Prime Minister, sir. And by April end, I think this line should be ready to put into operations, metro line underground. Also our Santacruz-Chembur Link Road, the critical portion of cable stay is balanced, which will take another six months, so by July even that should be through. And all other works, these are the works which will be completed in this coming three, four months.
Okay. Thank you, sir, and all the best.
Thank you. The last question is from the line of Rahil Shah from Crown Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Just to clear my confusion on this order book situation. You said that pipeline for the next 6-9 months is around INR 35,000-INR 39,000 crores, correct?
INR 30,000-INR 35,000 crores.
INR 30,000-INR 35,000. Okay. Can you please just repeat, at this moment, what amount of projects have been bid for by the company and by FY 2024 end, what will be your order book number?
We have already bid for INR 20,000 crores of projects.
Okay.
By FY 2024, our order book, we are looking for a closing order book of around INR 17,000 crore- INR 18,000 crore, wherein we have already bagged INR 8,000 crore of projects and we are evaluating another INR 3,000 crore of projects.
INR 3,000. Okay, got it. So INR 17,000 you are looking at ending. Okay. No problem. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The last question is from the line of Khushbu Gandhi from Share India Securities Limited. Please go ahead.
Yes, am I audible?
Yes. Go ahead.
Manageable.
Question is that-
Sorry, ma'am, your audio is not clear.
Hello?
Yes.
Yeah. Now it is good.
My question is that since we are aiming to reach $1 billion by FY 2027, most of it should be a 20% and looking at the strong order book, are we just being conservative stating 15% revenue growth for next year, or we are looking for the projects would be starting a little bit late and that's why our revenue would be on a 15%?
Khushbu, if you look at the order books that we bagged of this INR 10,000, INR 11,000 crore for this fiscal year, all these order books have flown in in Q3, Q4. Because of this, the actual revenue contribution, like if you talk about GMLR, it's an underground project wherein the main tunneling work would start after, I would say, in FY 2025 is where it will start generating substantial revenue because the major portion in the GMLR job is of tunneling. I would say that in the basic, any elevated project also if you see, around 4-6 months is gone minimum into the preparatory works, design preparation, soil investigation, survey jobs. In FY 2025, there won't be any major substantial contribution, which we will see in FY 2026 coming in a big way.
That's the reason we said that for FY 2024-2025, there would be 15% is we are sure of what it will happen, and by Q1 we will be able to get more gauge about what is the status of progress of work, wherein we can revise this guidance to be more precisely.
Ms. Khushbu, it's like we have a tendency, like we always say less and do more, so we always believe in surpassing our guidance.
Okay, sir, and all the best for the future.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. As that was the last question, I would now like to hand the conference over to Kamal Gupta for closing comments.
I would like to thank once again to all of you for joining us on this call today. We hope we have been able to answer your queries. Please feel free to reach out to our CFO or IR team for any clarification or feedback. Thank you so much to all. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of J. Kumar Infraprojects Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.