Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the J. Kumar Infraprojects Limited Q1 FY 2024 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. Before we begin, a brief disclaimer. The presentation which J. Kumar Infraprojects has uploaded on the stock exchange and their websites, including the discussions during this call, contains or may contain certain forward-looking statements concerning J. Kumar Infraprojects' business prospects and profitability, which are subject to several risks and uncertainties, and the actual results could materially differ from those in such forward-looking statements. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Kamal Gupta, MD, J. Kumar Infraprojects Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of J. Kumar Infraprojects, I welcome everyone to the Q1 FY 2024 earnings conference call of the company. Joining me on this call is Mr. Nalin Gupta, MD, Mr. Madan Biyani, CFO, and our IR team. I hope everyone had an opportunity to look at our results. The presentation and press release have been uploaded on stock exchanges and our company website. There is an air of pristine optimism in India, even as the world grapples with economic uncertainty. The government has adhered to its infrastructure-driven growth path and continued with CapEx spending. Our performance trajectory over the last few years has been testimony of our disciplined approach and strong foundation. The high performance during Q1 FY 2024 reflects the depth of our execution capabilities. Our robust execution capabilities, coupled with strong repository of asset base enabling efficient execution, reflected in strong execution revenue growth.
We believe that the infrastructure growth story is shaping out well and especially the urban infrastructure segment. Our sustained outperformance and order inflow has enhanced optimism and confidence to continue the outperformance alongside improvement in margin profile. The project awarding gained momentum during the current fiscal year. We have so far received orders worth INR 3,570 crore in current financial year, and we are L1 in projects worth more than INR 4,000 crore, which include GMLR, that is, Goregaon- Mulund Link Road twin canal project, where our share is around INR 3,088 crore. We believe that the momentum will accelerate further in months to come, and we will be able to participate incrementally in the same. The company is at inflection point in terms of its corporate personality, strengthening its capacity and to sustain growth in terms of order book and overall performance.
When coming to the performance highlights of Q1 FY 2024, the revenue from operations upon Q1 FY 2024 grew by 14% to INR 1,131 crore as compared to INR 994 crore in the preceding year of Q1 FY 2023. The EBITDA for Q1 FY 2024 grew by 15% to INR 162 crore. EBITDA percentage stood at 14.3% as compared to 14.1% in the preceding year. The PBT for Q1 grew by 19% to INR 100 crore year-on-year, and the PAT for Q1 FY 2024 grew by 18% to INR 73 crore as compared to INR 62 crore in the preceding year. Our total order book today stands at INR 14,351 crore, comprising of balance orders as on June 30, 2023 and receipt of LOI of Chennai Elevated Corridor from NHAI amounting to INR 3,570 crore.
Before taking the Q&A, we would like to emphasize that our robust execution capabilities, coupled with strong repository of asset base enabling efficient execution, will translate into strong revenue growth as well as improved margin, EBITDA margins in coming years. We are aggressively targeting projects which we believe will help us to maintain our current growth and margin profile. We are confident of being awarded projects in excess of INR 8,000 crore during the current fiscal year by FY 2024. The company has sufficient cash as well as unutilized working capital facility to undertake large projects and also to ramp up execution of existing projects. Thank you so much. Now, do you have a need for question and answer, please?
Yes. Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir, and congratulations on a very good set of numbers. My first question is on the, of course, you have a solid order inflow for the quarter, and also you are L1 in one of the large orders. My question here, what is the order inflow you are looking at for the full year? Are you looking at a higher number now given that we have won these two large, one NHAI order and this Mumbai railway order?
Yeah, Mohit. We are looking for an order inflow of around INR 8,000 crore for the current financial year. I think we have an order book to around INR 14,000 by the year-end of FY 2024, INR 15,000 around by the year-end of FY 2024.
Okay, sir. Can you just let us know the Mumbai or the order inflow prospect in Mumbai city and also Mumbai city, Mumbai MMR, and also any order prospect in the metro?
There is huge opportunity for order inflow, Mr. Mohit, let it be Mumbai MMR or other states of India. MMR itself, there's this multimodal corridor which has come up. Maharashtra itself has summed up with more than INR 2 lakh crore of projects, which includes multimodal corridor, the Pune ring road, Bhandup Bandra city tunnel project, the Versova to Dahisar coastal road project, the other flyover projects of Mumbai MMR metro. There are a lot of metro projects which also you might have seen in the paper. They have announced a INR 15,000 crore metro line from Badlapur to Bhiwandi. So, there are huge opportunities here in all sectors, whether it's metro, elevated underground, road flyovers, other building projects we are supporting. We've already L1 in one building project in Delhi. So there are some more coming there. I think opportunities left and right, Mr. Mohit.
There's no dearth of opportunities, but we are just waiting to get our projects at the right number.
Understood. Sir, my second question is on the fact that you are guiding for a $1 billion kind of number for FY 2027. This is around INR 8,200 crore kind of top line, which implies that we need around 20% kind of CAGR in the revenues for the next four, five years. Are you on track to achieve that or do you think we need to diversify into more sectors to achieve this number?
Well, I would say that firstly, this year's growth that we are expecting is what we are going to say, around 15%, but from the coming three years, financial year 2025, 2026, we expect to grow at a year-on-year basis to around 18%-20% with these new orders coming up of nearly INR 8,000 crore for GMLR in Chennai, which will start giving the revenue to us from FY 2025 and onwards. We are very comfortable, I guess, to say that we should be able to become a billion-dollar revenue company by FY 2027. The dollar rate that we are seeing, it is of course one factor, because when we gave a target one year back, it was around 78. Now it's 75 to 78, and now it's gone up to 82.
Our basic target is that we are very confident that we should be reaching to around INR 7,500+ crore revenue by FY 2027.
Do we need to diversify into other sectors or do you think what you are doing right now is good enough for you to achieve that number?
Well, with the order book of around INR 14,800 crore as of today, and with the L1 being converted into the order book within a month's time is what we expect. With the revenue that we will be generating from the FY 2024, we should be standing at an order book of more than INR 15,000 crore. As we are already in the pipeline to bid projects worth around INR 50,000 crore in this fiscal year, we are sure that we should be in a growing trend. I do not find any problem with the next two financial years because we already have an order book of INR 15,000 crore as of today. So it should not be a problem for the top line for the next two years any which ways.
Understood, sir. Thank you and all the best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nikhil Kanodia from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Sir, am I audible?
Yeah, very much.
Sir, first of all, congratulations on a great set of numbers. Sir, I just wanted to confirm a few numbers before I proceed with my questions. You mentioned that you have an L1 of INR 4,000 crore, which includes GMLR, the Goregaon-Mulund Link Road of INR 3,088 crore, right?
Correct.
The bid pipeline you said is around INR 50,000 crore, correct?
There will be bidding coming. Currently we have already bidded for projects worth around INR 3,700 crore for which the bids have been submitted, and we are L1 in additional INR 4,100 crore.
What will be the bid pipeline? Like you are planning to bid for what worth of projects in this financial year?
It all depends upon what is the bid submission dates, but anyway, not less than INR 25,000 crore worth of bids is what we are expecting to bid. We feel that we should be able to bag some interesting types of orders also.
Oh, okay. Sir, with this, do you revise your FY 2024 revenue and margin guidance?
For FY 2024, we don't intend to revise our top line. It's what we have been projecting around INR 4,800 crore for FY 2024, because the new orders will be having a financial addition to the top line of the company in this fiscal year. From the current guidance of a growth of around 15% will be revised, and to around 18%-20% in the coming next two years.
Okay. Understood, sir. Sir, what would be your current funded and non-funded limits, and also the utilization?
Funded, [funded], and specifically what do you have? Utilization.
Funded and non-funded, the limits that you have currently and the utilization on the same.
We have funded limits of INR 635 crore, wherein utilized is 62% that is INR 392 crore. Term loan is INR 120 utilized, and non-funded is INR 3,200 crore and utilized out of that is 80%, around INR 2,600 crore.
Sir, can you repeat the non-funded limits?
Sanctioned is INR 3,200 crore and utilized is INR 2,600 crore, 80% roughly.
Okay, sir. Understood. And sir, what was the cash on June 30th?
Sorry?
Compare cash balance.
Cash balance?
Yeah, cash and cash equivalents.
Total cash balance as on June 30th will be in the range of INR 451 crore.
INR 400 crore, right?
Yeah.
INR 451. Sir, last quarter you mentioned that you are evaluating some of the bullet train projects. Sir, any kind of insights you can throw on that? What is the preferred match and where are we standing in terms of bullet train projects as of now?
The bullet train bid was opened and we were 18 in it. NCC Limited got the order, and we were at 18. The bids are only open, and we missed that opportunity. We will try for the next project coming up.
What would be net margin that you would have missed there?
It is around INR 950 crore, which is close to, I should say, 5.5%.
Okay. Sir, those were my questions. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chirag Singhal from First Water Capital. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. Just one question on the margin profile. Do metro projects have a higher margin profile than the other projects such as roads and flyovers? If yes, what is the basis point difference in general?
Well, the GMLR project that we have taken is a very unique kind of project. We anticipate a better margin, and we intend that we should be adding up around 150 basis points in the next two years time.
Okay. In general, just wanted to understand, the 150 basis points also hold true, if I look at overall metro projects that you have versus the other projects?
Yes. Sorry, Mr. Chirag.
I am saying that the 150 basis point that you mentioned, does this also hold true when we compare overall margins on the metro projects versus overall margins on the other projects?
Yes. So we are talking about the overall margin only, Chirag, and it is a mix of all the projects. Since we are working in a niche area, like it is a complex engineering project. So the margin rates are comparatively better than the road. So competition is also comparatively lower here. Yes, we will be seeing the margin going ahead also.
Sure, understood. Thank you.
Yes.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you, and congratulations on great set of numbers and a significant order win. A couple of questions. First, I need a clarity on Chennai Elevated Corridor. We are seeing that it is INR 3,570 crore. Are we going to even where our share is 90%, are we going to execute the 100%? Otherwise the difference is INR 3,400, so INR 170 crore odd difference is there.
Yeah, you are right, Shravan. The project cost is INR 3,570 crore wherein in two projects we have JV. So 90% is our share, but we will be executing 100% of the project. Our JV partners will be giving technical guidance for the civil structure for us.
Okay. This project in terms of the revenue this year, broadly, when the appointed date and broadly how much revenue will it contribute this year, FY 2024 or it will be the FY 2025 we will start booking the revenue?
Of course, we have already got the LOI, and in one and a half, two months, we should get the appointed date also after permission of the PBG and signing of the agreement. In another one month, we will get the order, its appointed date. We will get some part of the revenue in the current fiscal also from Chennai Elevated Project. It already will be booked for us.
Okay, got it. Second clarity needed in GMLR. The project is in JV, so are we going to book revenue in standalone or only the profit will come in standalone or will it only be in consolidated? We will be doing the job in an integrated JV, and the work, the profit will be transferred to the individual partners as and when the profit is generated.
As per the Indian Accounting Standard 7, the proportionate revenue of each of the JVs will come in their respective financials. Similarly, cost will also come, and automatically, EBITDA, PAT, PBT, everything will come.
Okay.
This is called proportionate method of consolidation in terms of generation.
Okay. So at standalone, we will be seeing the revenue from this JV.
Yes.
Okay. Got it. Broadly, in terms of there, when we are going to start booking the revenue and in terms of the CapEx, I understand we need a bigger TBM, so broader CapEx. What would be the share of our CapEx in the entire CapEx for this GMLR, and when are we going to do that CapEx? With that, overall CapEx for this year at standalone and the next year.
Well, for this fiscal year, there won't be any major contribution as such for this revenue. The revenue generation will start only from FY 2025.
Okay.
That is next year. For the CapEx, we are working out the numbers, but yes, there will be a sizable CapEx for the additional TBM that is required for this project, and it will be done in the next two financial years.
Broadly, it would be INR 200 crore-INR 300 crore kind of one TBM needed or two TBM we will be needing?
So there will be two TBMs required, and one machine will be on each partner's books.
Okay. And broadly, INR 250 crore or even higher than that?
Higher machines, so we are negotiating the price of it.
Okay. Got it. And second, in terms of the margin, when we say in the presentation, we have definitely increased from 14%-15% to 15%-16%, and just now in the previous reply, we said that we are looking at improvement of 150 basis points. So if I look at it from 14.3% plus 150 basis points, so kind of a 16.4%, 16.5% kind of a margin. Sorry, sir?
Yeah. Please go ahead.
I am saying, this year we will be having close to 14.5%, and from next year we can see a 16% + kind of a margin. Is that understanding right?
Shravan, as we told you, in the range of 14%-15% of the secure projects also with this margin. We are on the verge that we want to improve this margin going forward. We are on a commercial building phase, but we are on the verge of increasing these margins going forward, yeah. I cannot give you the exact numbers, but definitely it will improve.
Okay. Got it. And second clarification needed. Last time you said that we are in L1 in I think four mentally odd projects. Currently, how much exact value and how many projects are there? Apart from the GMLR, what is the value of L1 project?
There are four projects, which costing around INR 4,100 crore. If you include GMLR, that is INR 3,088 crore. There is one building project, development of colony at Hari Nagar, Delhi by Delhi Development Authority, costing INR 536 crore. This is all excluding GST. There is one metro Line 2B corridor station finishing work that is costing INR 100 crore, and one missing link flyover at Jai Villa by MMRDA that is costing INR 380 crore, taking it to INR 4,000 crore.
Okay. If we broadly convert this INR 5,000 crore base, then we should be easily seeing, as you mentioned, more than INR 8,000, maybe if we create up any large project, then the inflow could be even INR 10,000 odd crore.
That is what we have told you, in excess of INR 8,000 crore for this year.
Okay. Broadly, if you can help us in terms of this INR 25,000 odd crore that we are confident to bid, broader breakup in terms of any large projects, that would help.
Here, out of this INR 25,000 what we are saying, flyover, elevated corridors will be around INR 6,000 crore-INR 7,000 crore. Building works will be around INR 3,000 crore. Metros will be around INR 6,000 crore, and road works will be around INR 9,000 crore. Water projects will be around INR 2,000 crore.
Okay. Got it. I need a couple of data points on the balance sheet. Sir, inventory, trade receivable, trade payable, then the mobilization, retention, unbilled revenue.
Inventory is in the range of INR 970 crore. This includes raw material, work-in-progress and both. Trade-
Sorry, sir. In March, the inventory were INR 393 crore, and now it is INR 900 crore.
No. The one figure which you are saying is raw material stock. That was approximately INR 370 crore in March, and now it is around INR 430 crore in June. I had told you the total inventory, which includes work-in-progress also. That is INR 969 crore as of June 30.
Okay. Trade receivable?
Trade receivable is in the range of INR 1,250 crore as of June 30, and trade payable in the range of INR 640 crore.
INR 640 crore. Mobilization advance, retention money and-
Unbilled revenue.
Unbilled revenue. That is last question. Mobilization, retention and unbilled revenue.
Mobilization advance is in the range of INR 532 crore. Retention money as at trial is in the range of INR 267 crore.
Unbilled revenue?
Unbilled revenue is INR 533 crore.
Okay. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we request you to please restrict your questions to three questions per participant. The next question is from the line of Parvez Qazi from Nuvama Group. Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon and thanks for taking my question. First question is, what is the execution period for the GMLR project?
Five years.
Five years. Great. Second, it would be great if you could share the status of some of our major projects, like all the metro lines that we are doing in Mumbai, Pune, Surat, and we have CIDCO projects, et cetera. Thank you.
Well, all the projects are now in well track because they are one and a half year old or two years old projects. So projects are picking up well fine, and they are in full swing. We have already launched the TBM at Mumbai, Surat and Delhi, and all the three machines will be starting in one to two months' time.
Great. Thanks. That's it from my side, and all the best for today.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepesh Agarwal from UTI Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Congratulations, Kamal-ji, for the two other wins. My first question is, how the margin profile and the working capital profile of these two large projects is different from our existing business. Is it similar or you find them little different?
You are talking about the margin profile between smaller and bigger projects, right?
Yes, and also working capital.
Yeah. Working capital depends upon your type of project. There is a time, if you have maximum payments, the working capital goes up. But usually, if it's a bigger, small project, it does not matter about working capital. When we are bidding for these bigger projects, city type projects also, you do consider that optimization of the other overalls, whether you are quoting for small and big. For smaller projects, the overhead cost goes much higher compared to the bigger projects, city type projects. That's part of quoting overheads in. Margin-wise, it will be similar for bigger, city type projects also. But after the credential grows up, you are in a position to bid for bigger, city type projects going forward also, once you complete it.
Okay. Like in metro, you used to invest a lot in raw materials, et cetera, which used to lead to higher working capital. Do you think similar investments will happen in these two large projects?
Correct. At least in GMLR, that will be the case, wherein the material cost will be less, and the associate cost will be much higher. For the underground projects, the material cost is lower and the associated costs are high. For the elevated, the material cost is also similar to other small projects.
Okay. The other question I had, as you mentioned, Goregaon-Mulund project will be executed in a JV structure. How does the demarcation of the liabilities or efficiency gains between you and your partner, suppose there is a delay of cost overrun on the partner's stretch, would it impact J. Kumar also or other way around, if there are efficiency gains for J. Kumar, would it also to be shared with the partner?
When the project is executed in an integrated style, there is a leader who is being appointed by the joint venture, and the work is supervised by the JV board. There is no question of the delay being attributed at level of one partner to the other. Because it's a project, because there is two tunnels, but it has to be operated from the same shaft. It's very difficult to be executed as two individual partners. As the JV board, we have decided we'll be going in for an integrated joint venture, where the entire work will be executed by a common team. There is no reason why delay of one person is attributable to the second. We at J. Kumar, we are a well experienced contractor with tunneling and underground works.
We are very, very sure that this project will go on at the required speed, and we have already made strategy, initial planning and the procurement processes for calling in for quotations. Once we get the LOI, we will be on the scene in place.
Okay. The reason, another question here is, because the partner actually operates at a much lower margin than our margin profile. Does it mean at a project level, our margin profile would be looking lower than the company average, or do you think that we'll still be able to maintain that company average margin?
Are you talking about the margin for GMLR?
Yes.
Yes. The GMLR project has been bid in a joint bidding process where the margin of J. Kumar for this type of project, where we have been executing it for almost like last 10, 11 years. We have kept similar margin in this project. There is no question of having any impact on the margin for J. Kumar onto our share of project.
Okay. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Dipen Shah, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on a good set of numbers. I had a couple of broader questions. Firstly, on the overall infra sector, we have been hearing that the execution lines have picked up. If you could just give us some more idea on what has changed from the government side, both as far as the central government is concerned and more importantly, the Maharashtra government or the state governments are concerned. I am asking you more specifically on the new project, which is the Goregaon project, which we have got as well as the Chennai project. What is the proportion of land acquisition, et cetera, which has been done from the government side, and is there any potential for delays which could happen?
Coming to the government thing, we all know that this is the for infra. The announcing central state both are aligned. A few of the projects have really gone up.
As the government has kept the promise of including more funds or more CapEx spending in infra, to meet their targets of the GDP. You also know the infrastructure sector is second largest employment generation sector. It stands to all industry. Coming to the land acquisition, the Chennai project has already 90% of the land in position. There's some minor, 4%, 5%, 6%, either what they have to take. The quantity it will be given is because the 90% of the land is in position, so there's no issue of land acquisition in Chennai.
As far as GMLR is concerned, with the information that we have from the department on the environmental permissions and the requisite permission of forest service things in place. Now once we get onto the project, we'll come to know into more detail. What is very important to understand here is except the 1.6 km cut-and-cover ramp on the Goregaon side and around 300 m cut-and-cover ramp on the eastern side of Mulund, is only which is going to be affected with three external permissions.
If you talk about the entire length of 4.8 km, which is by tunnel boring machine, it won't have any implication. Once we enter it from the cut-and-cover side, we don't need any permission for the 4.8 km. Because the preliminary permission for passing through the forest or taking the tunnel below it by TBM has already been taken by the corporation, which has been clarified during the previous meeting.
Okay. That's great to hear. Just one more thing, like with the general elections next year coming up, any indications of whether the work would speed up in the next couple of quarters before cooling down in the last quarter? Or what has been the general experience of the project execution during times of elections?
Well, I would say that let it be any election time, all the governments or all the political bodies which has been proven, Maharashtra is a classical example to understand this fact, where there has been change of guard happening, but every time with whoever has come, infrastructure execution has been as a primary motive for all the political parties to show that they have done good job for the state.
We don't find any reason why any implication as to negative side should happen. Work should go on at a good pace, and we have a continuous pressure from the department and from the heads of the political party to push the work as much as possible to ease the traffic of every state. I think the work is going on in well controlled manner, and we should see the same happening during the election dates as well.
Exactly. That's what I was coming to. I was talking about the increased pressure on execution over the next couple of quarters before the code of conduct sets in. Anyway, thank you, and all the very best to you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Hemant, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Sir, congratulations on a very good set of numbers and thank you for providing me the opportunity. Sir, just wanted one clarification. That INR 3,570 crore, the order which we have secured till date, it is in GMLR. Is it fair to assume that it will only be added to the bottom line as per the accounting standards and not on the top line? One more thing, sir, are you being little conservative in guiding 15% for FY 2024? What the company is targeting is more than INR 8,000 crore of order inflow as per 2023.
If you see, Mr. Hemant, out of the INR 3,570 crore, only the GMLR portion is INR 170 crore-INR 180 crore something. As I told you, Hemant, that will be executed by J. Kumar only. They will be giving a technical guidance for some cable-stayed portion also only. The entire this thing, top line, as well as the bottom line will be coming in J. Kumar portfolio. There is no concern about that. Coming to the growth of FY 2024, as Nalin was just telling you, we have given a target of INR 4,800 crore. This will be a 15% jump than our preceding year, and we are sure to achieve this. Maybe as we say, we always like to say less and deliver more. Let us see how it goes.
Sir, new order books that Hemant, that you are trying to emphasize on, these order books will start contributing only from FY 2025 in the right way. Whether it is GMLR or whether it is Chennai, it will not start giving revenue in the current fiscal year. There are a lot of preliminary works that are required to be executed for any project to start and to get revenue for the top line. Sir, the INR 4,000 crore of order where we are in L1, some part of it also must have been given, right? How much portion will be added to the bottom line? I mean, how much of it will be not added to the top line?
Hemant, this INR 4,100 crore which we told you is completely our share.
Okay.
We have told you only our share. The total order size is bigger than that. Like the GMLR is a INR 6,300 crore project. This entire INR 4,100 crore will dip into our P&L and balance sheet as and when they begin.
You meant to say that INR 3,570 crore and another INR 4,100 crore will be added to the top line also? Hello?
Ladies and gentlemen.
Hello.
The line for the management seems to have disconnected. Please stay with us while we reconnect with the management. Ladies and gentlemen, we thank you for your patience. We have reconnected with the management. Over to you, sir.
Yes, sir. You meant to say that INR 4,000 crore and the INR 3,570 crore will both be added to the top line, right?
Exactly. In GMLR.
But, sir, as per a media interview today, I saw that our share in INR 4,100 crore is INR 3,000 crore. Maybe I got it wrong or I do not know, sir. Could you confirm?
See, I will tell you again, no confusion. We already secured projects worth INR 3,500 crore. All right? And we are-
Sorry.
L1 in INR 4,100 crore additionally. This includes a project of GMLR, which was costing INR 3,088 crore, which is our share of that project. So total project cost was INR 3,300. Plus other three projects taking it to INR 4,100 crore, which will be in J. Kumar group accounts.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, you may please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Nikhil Kanodia from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you so much for the opportunity. Sir, I need three numbers. On the CapEx front, what is the CapEx that you would have incurred in the first quarter?
INR 33 crore.
INR 33 crore. Sir, the guidance on CapEx, like for the full year CapEx, what is the amount that you are planning to incur?
Yeah. We have given a guidance of INR 150 crore, which will be incremental maintenance CapEx. But because of these two projects of Chennai and GMLR, there will be additional CapEx, like as Nalin told you, the TBM cost only will be big, so that will go in two years. Plus even the Chennai project will have some additional CapEx. So I think for this year it will be around INR 250 crore. Going forward again, this TBM which will be added, let's see what is the amount we are able to finalize with this, right? So that will be adding in another two years. Coming two years.
Okay, sir. Sir, the amount of debt that you are planning to close by the year-end would be?
Right now we are at INR 511 crore. As we always say, it will be max INR 550 crore- INR 600 crore by the year-end.
INR 500 crore- INR 600 crore, right?
Yeah.
Sir, what will be your target for working capital days? Like annual days, what is your target for year-end working capital days?
We are now at 126, 127 days, and we always try to do it at 120- 130 days. Like average of 125 days.
Okay, understood. Those are my questions. Thank you, sir.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jiteen Rushe from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for taking my question and process. Sir, my first question is on the JV part. You said, obviously, there is a revolution of this which is set on the joint venture. But sir, what would be the mix-
Can you just repeat?
Sir, my first question is on the joint venture project. Obviously, JV also, this is in joint venture with NCC. I just want to understand the mix of execution. As you have given, you will be doing the work together, but what will be the mix like? What is the portion of NCC in that project will be executing? Whether they will be doing the complex work or they will be doing a routine work of constructing the road, and you will be doing the more complex work of tunneling and what kind of margin probably you will have because of the complexity and the CapEx, as you said, you will be doing CapEx also in your books. How does it work? Can you please explain in detail?
Jiteen, as we have mentioned that this work is an integrated joint venture, where there will be JV board of both the parties who will be running this project, and there will be a common project head, common resources, staff, and machinery that will be deployed on this project, and the work will be executed everything as integrated project as a single project by a single company. It will be only the decision making which will be coming in by both the partners, depending on the calls that we are supposed to take. But otherwise, this project will be executed as one project by one company. The JV will be like one company taking the decisions and executing. There is nothing like one person will be executing the tough part and the other will be doing the easy part.
Basically, you mean to say you will be forming a joint venture company step down, where you will be having a stake in it and NCC will be having a stake in, and they will be investing in initial equity to support the CapEx and to get the things going. This CapEx of INR 250 crore, certainly as if the TBM comes, you buy the TBM machine for this project for the next year or year after, which can cost anything, INR 100 crore- INR 200 crore. This will be part of the JV, and it will be borne both by NCC and J. Kumar and probably, how it will work like that is the only thing.
Yeah. It will be purchased in joint venture, and after the end of the project, the machines will be either sold off or will be transferred to each partner by the respective value at the depreciated value.
You will be requiring two machines from either side, the tunnel boring machines.
Two machines together. One machine from either side it will be or it is two machines for this project.
Two machines together from both the sides.
Yeah, because it is a tailor-made machine of a particular dia. It is India's largest tunnel ever been constructed by a tunnel boring machine. We at J. Kumar feel pride that we have taken up this job and it will be executed in slash tunnel. This is not available anywhere in the country of this specific diameter, which is being required for this project. We have to make it and buy it in the joint venture.
This would be costing what? Like a machine would cost how much? INR 100 crore-INR 150 crore, or it could be somewhat still higher.
Around in the range of INR 600 crore- INR 700 crore for two machines put together.
Oh. This is like a large CapEx, which we can expect in 2025, 2026 then.
Yes, that's right.
Almost INR 300 crore each on your books and if at all it is a 50/50 JV, then it could be like that.
That's right.
Sir, coming back to the projects which you are planning to build in joint ventures. What are the plans now? Are you going to be steady-state with NCC and bid for complex projects like large ticket projects? Or there are plans to now build independent. Obviously, you've given the insight that L1 is your independent base. Are there any JV projects which you're planning in coming months and NCC is going to be a steady state JV partner for large ticket projects? Can you just throw some light or thought behind it, sir?
Mostly we would like to build all the projects on a standalone basis of J. Kumar itself. These joint ventures are strategic calls that are being taken depending upon the nature of work. But most of the projects that we are planning to build in this coming time would be on a standalone basis of J. Kumar.
Okay. Going forward, we don't see any JV bidding. Right?
I don't.
Won't get any such projects.
That depends on the project. If it is required, it will be different thing. But as of now, we feel that it will be only in J. Kumar as of now.
Okay. And sir, one last question from my side. Your experience in terms of ordering activity during the election years. How has been in the past, whether we could see some ordering in Q4. Obviously, we have seen slowdown from the road sector, especially in the roads. But whether can we see a pickup in non-road, especially like in the tunneling machine or the metro work from the state in Q4. Do you see that thing to continue, or we will see some blackout from February or January onwards?
We had replied this point even before in this Q&A, that there are lot and lot of opportunities all across the country. It's only now what we have to select, like recently we have bid for Kanpur Metro, we'll be bidding now for Jaipur, Bhopal. We'll be bidding for various projects in Mumbai. There are various for metros, for flyovers, for tunnels, for water projects, for building projects. So there are-
I understand. I agree with you. Sorry to harp on it.
So for the time being, the couple of months there will be. You cannot float new tenders, but the tenders which are already floated, so they can be like doing process of calling the RFP and evaluating. All this can be done. So we cannot float this, whichever state has this election for that 1.5 months around, we cannot float new tenders. That's the only constraint.
So if at all our order inflow target is achieved by, say, November, December, probably then we would skip or we will continue, but at our rate. That is something which I understand.
We'll continue bidding like one or two projects. So whatever projects come of our choice and our verticals, we will keep bidding for that. There's no doubt.
Right, sir. That's it from my side. And thank you and all the best, sir. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask a question may please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Sir, can you help us in terms of breakup of INR 3,700 crore projects where we have already bidded and bid is yet to be opened?
These are two NHAI projects of Delhi-Mumbai, Vadodara Expressway in JV. So we have two projects for this. Then there are some small projects of FOB and ROB. We also bidded for the Kanpur Metro, which is costing [INR 1,000 crore]. We also quoted for a building project, PWD building project in Okhla, Delhi, which is costing INR 500 crore.
Okay. These two NHAI project would be close to INR 1,000 crore each kind of.
INR 900 crore and INR 600 crore of our share. So INR 1,500 crore, INR 1,000 crore Kanpur Metro, INR 500 crore is this. So technically INR 3,000 crore, plus our smaller other projects, technically INR 3,500 crore.
Okay. Got it. In terms of the existing projects, just trying to understand, we last time have mentioned. Both this Line 3 underground, this will be over so by this year end.
Yeah. Line 3, we are completed, 88% of the project of Line 3 is already completed. The MMRC is contemplating to start this operation of the first phase from SEEPZ to BKC by early this year, so by end of this financial year. Like I said that road section should be started, 2024.
Okay. So from our side, in terms of the order book, we will be completing by this March, this should be over from our side.
Yeah, major parts will be over apart from some entry and exit where there were some issues. So all the station and other projects will be done and couple of entry projects will be over for a couple of months.
Okay. And this both the Dwarka Expressway would be mostly would be also 95% kind of would be over by March end.
Correct. Dwarka Expressway will be also 95% over by March, next year like March it will.
Okay. And in terms of Mira-Bhayandar, both underground and the normal, from now onwards, how much more time it will take to complete?
We expect around 1.5 years from now to complete these projects.
Okay. Including the underground?
Yeah. In the underground section also, the tunneling will be completed in a year's time. We have launched both the TBMs and some arrangements for starting the tunnel, actual driving is going on. In a year's time, we will complete the tunneling work and the other works, majority of the station work and other areas which should also be completed like in 1.5 , max two years time from now.
Okay. Delhi also, will it be in 1.5 , two years will be over? The INR 1,300 crore kind of order book that currently we have Delhi Metro.
Delhi will take around 2.5 years from now.
Okay. This Ircon project, sir, it is not picking up. From now, how much more time will it take? Because already I think more than one year it is there but hasn't picked up.
Ircon's appointed date was 19th January 2023. It's only been six, seven months, Shravan. It's not locked. It's not one year for the moment. Already the work is going on. All the four sides we have opened for the tunnel of 4.5 km. The project is progressing really well and we are expected to complete it well within time. There's no problem.
Okay. Thank you, sir, and all the best.
Q1, there was a revenue generation of INR 46 crore from Ircon project this current fiscal.
Okay. Just to, in terms of definitely for this year, we mentioned that debt level will be INR 550 crore- INR 600 crore. Next year, even if we, let's say, do a higher CapEx, so routine maintenance plus INR 300 crore kind of for TBM, then also the debt level for next year also should not be rising from INR 600 crore.
Yeah, because of that term loan, whatever those are, INR 650 crore, the term loan part will add up. The CapEx of this TBM will be in addition to INR 550 crore-INR 600 crore. INR 550 crore-INR 600 crore is the current debt as of now.
Yeah.
Because we will be repaying also some term loan. We will be repaying some term loan, but this CapEx will be added up to that.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was our last question. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Kamal Gupta for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Please do reach out to our CFO or IR team for any clarification or feedback. Thank you so much all. Have a good day.
Thank you. On behalf of J. Kumar Infraprojects Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.