Hi, now handing the conference over to Mr. Ritesh Shah, Head of Mid- Market Research Coverage and ESG, analyst from Investec Capital Services India Private Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Riddhi. Welcome all for Jindal Stainless quarterly conference call. We have with us our senior management. We have with us Mr. Abhyuday Jindal, Managing Director, Mr. Tarun Khulbe, CEO and Whole Time Director, Mr. Anurag Mantri, Executive Director and Group CFO, and Ms. Shreya Sharma, Group Head, Investor Relations. I'll hand over the call to, Mr. Abhyuday for opening remarks, and post that, we have- we'll have a Q&A session. Mr. Abhyuday is available only for 30 , 40 minutes, so would request participants to, drive the strategic questions in the first half of the call. Thank you so much, and over to you, sir.
Thanks, Ritesh. Good afternoon, everyone, and a warm welcome on the call. We have shared our Q2 FY 2025 earnings presentation with the stock exchanges, which is also available on the company's website, and today's call discussion will be on the same lines. Please note some of the information on this call may be forward-looking in nature and is covered by the disclaimer on slide two of the earnings presentation, and as Ritesh mentioned, Mr. Jindal is because due to some emergency, Mr. Jindal has a hard stop at 4:00 P.M. So request you all to please limit your strategic question to one each, and after that, we'll take the bookkeeping questions. Thank you. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Shreya, and good afternoon to everyone, and welcome to the Q2 FY 2025 call. Let me first discuss key business highlights of the quarter ending September 2024 , following which Anurag will take you through our operational and financial performance. Despite global challenges and disruption in ocean trades, we maintained our export volumes on a quarter-on-quarter basis. The export market continued to face headwinds due to weaker economic activity in the EU and the slowing of key sectors such as manufacturing and construction in the U.S. Though we are continuously targeting to increase sales in other geographies like South Korea, South America, Middle East, however, currently it is not compensating for the loss of sales volume in the major global economies. On the domestic front, we witnessed stable growth throughout the quarter.
Demand remained steady from railway coaches, lift elevator segment, pipes and tubes, and other segments as well. The performance of white goods sector exhibited improvement ahead of the festive season, and we also expect moderate growth in the two-wheeler segment till the tail end of the season. There have been good developments on the railway front as the rail ministry increases its focus on building a world-class rail network alongside enhancing industrial capabilities. The contract for the design, manufacturing, and commissioning of the first two high-speed bullet trains is awarded to manufacturers domestically. This was earlier expected to be imported. The contract specifies the car body to be manufactured using austenitic grade stainless steel, and we are well equipped to manufacture and deliver this grade as per the requirements.
Additionally, new train sets such as the Vande Bharat Sleeper train and the Namo Bharat Rapid Rail are further expected to boost the demand for stainless steel in the country. We also expect a healthy demand for stainless steel from the process industries, for ethanol, hydroelectric, thermal, nuclear power plants. Moreover, the government's renewed focus on the use of stainless steel in bridges and infrastructure applications in coastal areas will further elevate the demand for this alloy. I would also like to add that our announced projects are progressing very well. I'm happy to share that we have commissioned our Nickel Pig Iron Smelter facility in Indonesia in the month of August 2024, which is around eight months ahead of the scheduled timeline. I would also like to highlight that aligning with the Atmanirbhar Bharat mission of Government of India, we are accredited by...
We have been accredited by BrahMos Aerospace as a qualified vendor for the manufacturing and supply of steel sheets and plates for their cruise missile application. We've also supplied low alloy steel sheets for ISRO and HAL satellite launch vehicles. Now, coming to the ESG front. As a company dedicated to ESG objectives, towards our efforts in sustainability and ecologically conscious business practices, we have received recognition at multiple industry events. Both our Jajpur and Hisar units have been honored with the prestigious Energy Efficient Unit Award at the 25th CII National Award for Excellence in Energy Management, and Jindal Stainless has been awarded the prestigious Platinum Global Environment Award 2024 for its outstanding achievement in environmental excellence. With this, I would like to hand over to Anurag to discuss the operational and financial performance. Thank you.
Thank you, Abhyuday. Good afternoon, everyone, and a very warm welcome on the call. As highlighted by Abhyuday, we delivered consistent volume amidst challenging global scenario. Let me discuss in detail the operational and financial performance during quarter two of FY 2025. We delivered a stable sales volume of 564,627 metric ton in Q2, which is increased by around 4% on YoY, with a slight dip of around 2% on quarter-on-quarter basis. The standalone Q2 revenue increased by around 2% on a quarter-on-quarter basis to INR 9,746 crore, with improved product mix and limited sales in the lower end segment, dominated by Chinese imports. Quarter two, EBITDA remained steady at INR 1,007 crore.
That increased by 2% at INR 589 crore on a quarter-on-quarter basis. The H1 sales volume increased by 5% on a year-on-year basis, in spite of our export volumes falling 28% due to global economic challenge. So we are, the support of this volume is increased, because we are backed by the increased domestic sales, which is almost 10% higher than the previous year. So we saw a good domestic demand across value-added segments. Further, the continuous focus on maintaining a strong balance sheet as on 30th September 2024 , our JSL and JUSL net debt has reduced to INR 4,312 crore , which is down by 11% from June 2024.
This is despite the CapEx and investment outflow of INR 2,900 crore, mainly on account of the Chromeni acquisitions, Indonesia facilities, investment. We have achieved this through working capital optimization and achieved this debt reduction as part of balance sheet strengthening. Our standalone debt to equity is maintained at 0.2x , and the net debt to EBITDA stood at 0.7x . Our debt service coverage ratio has also significantly increased on back of strong cash flows. To close with, we continue to anticipate upbeat domestic stainless steel demand, and this will continue to rise with the domestic robust economic activities. With this, I would like to end my discussion and would request the moderator to open the floor for the Q&A session.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI. Please go ahead, sir.
Yeah, hi, good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for the opportunity. Congratulations for a good performance in very testing time. I have a couple, yeah, couple of questions. The first one is that recently we saw the DGTR initiating investigations into import of Chinese stainless steel tubes. Do we see any possibility of investigation into protection for our range of products as well? Because import influx is something that has been troubling the industry and us also for quite a while. So just wanted your thoughts on this.
Oh, absolutely, Amit, that is definitely on the cards. And, you know, just as you know, the stainless steel industry being a little bit unorganized, data collection from various MSME and other competitors is taking a little time to organize. But we are working on it, and we expect that soon we would be also applying for some kind of anti-dumping duty.
Okay. That's nice to know. The second question is essentially on the ongoing project. So I just wanted to understand the ramp up of Rathi and Raigarh. Where are we now? And also the NPI project, of course, you commissioned ahead of schedule. So is there a chance that the stainless steel project that we are contemplating could also be coming in what we had actually envisaged?
I'll take the last part first. So, definitely it's a two-year time period that they have taken for the construction of the new stainless steel melt shop. But looking at their speed and looking at, as exactly like you're saying, the speed that they've completed their initial project, our expectation is also it should come up before two-year period, but it's still too early to give any kind of clarity. Maybe few coming quarters later, we can give you a better picture on that. And for the other thing, Mr. Khulbe.
For Rathi, like, this H1, we have produced around 50,000 tons, which is almost aligned to our projection. So we believe that, this year, our Rathi utilization should be around 65%-70% capacity utilization. On Raigarh, we are still figuring out, I mean, this is this ramp up, and we're still figuring out, that, what we, or how do we take our business plan over there. But, on Rathi, we are... But it is still on the rebar, it is gradually picking up. Because as you could have seen that, very recently, Mr. Nitin Gadkari has also made two statements in public, where he has recommended the, the use of, a stainless steel rebar, at least in the coastal areas.
That also, we believe, will help the industry. And because a lot of circulars within the NHAI and their related entities, they are reinforcing this policy of use of the stainless steel rebars into the coastal areas.
So there are some good tailwinds coming up for long products, and we feel that volume should pick up there seriously.
Yeah. One related question here: Have we broken even on EBITDA in Rathi?
Not right now, Amit, because initially, as you mentioned, is that it's not a rebar. We are more focusing on the wire rods. So gradually it will move to a rebar, and it's more a stabilization phase, so initial fixed expenses are higher.
... But, as we move forward, we are on track on our plan.
Fixed expenses are higher, and because it's a stabilization kind of phase, so we started producing vanilla grades, where always margins will be a little under pressure. And now that confidence has come, and we are also moving now to higher grades, better variants. So from volume side and from margin side, there should be improvement in the coming quarters.
Yeah, so but this, at the end of this year, we will surely be at, because we are on track for the breakeven and some margins over there, better margin, better earnings over there.
Okay. That's very helpful. Thanks, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec Capital Services. Please go ahead, sir.
Yeah, a couple of quick questions. We had given volume guidance number of 20%. Do we still stay put to it, or would we look to downward revise the number? That's one. Secondly, on the spread guidance, we have indicated INR 18,000-INR 20,000 at standalone. Do we still stick with it, or is there any change? And third is basically on the capital raise, we have taken an enabling resolution. Any thought process or any variables that we are looking for before we tick that box? I think these are three quick questions. Thank you.
Good, Ritesh. Thank you for asking. I think we would definitely like to bring down our volume growth guidance. We had initially said 20%, looking with the expectation that export would pick up, and basically, we were bullish on export side. And that has not happened, and it's further actually, Europe and U.S. has just not recovered. In fact, Germany, which is the strongest market from a volume standpoint and economic prowess standpoint, is actually in a very bad situation. So, that is why, at this point, we would like to refresh our guidance down from 20% to 10%-15%. We're still quite positive on the domestic growth story. It's just that export is a bit of a dampener still for us.
And in terms of your EBITDA per ton guidance, we are trying to maintain it around INR 18,000 at the moment, because we still want to push our volumes. We still want to basically grow our volumes, not to the factor that we are able to hurt our margin to a large extent. So looking at factor of both of them, volume 10%-15% and EBITDA margin of around INR 18,000 per ton. And the third question?
And third question was on the capital raise. As we mentioned, this was only enabling resolution, which includes all sort of instrument on equity, quasi-equity, as well as on the foreign currency bonds and everything. Right now, as you would have seen in last quarter, consolidated debt has been reduced by more than INR 500 crore. So we have done quite a few working capital optimizations, and that has helped us to release permanent cash in the system. And therefore, the debt has not reduced despite outflow of INR 2,900 crore in last H1 itself. So our focus will always be a very prudent capital management and stronger balance sheet.
Depending on that and depending on our growth plan, we'll, whenever opportunity comes, we'll see that, but, there is nothing on the card immediately at this stage.
Sure. Just a follow-up. One last question for Mr. Jindal. Sir, what is your priority in order of ramping up the different variables that we have, including RKEF, SMS, Rathi, RVPL, and Chromeni? I was just perplexed when I heard the comment, we are trying to figure out on RVPL. So is it something on track, or how should we read into that? Thank you.
Priority is definitely, Chromeni, our Mundra asset, because that is where, you know, our overall, let's say, CR output was also less in the company, and the demand and requirement coming from our customers is maximum for our cold roll high quality product. So capacity-wise also, it is the largest, so our priority and investment-wise also, it is one of the largest. Priority is definitely Chromeni. I mean, others, I would all put at an even footing. I don't want to say one is higher priority than the other. But Chromeni, definitely, because immediately it can add to our bottom line, top line, volume growth. That is our main focus.
Thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Majumdar from B&K Securities. Please go ahead, sir.
Yeah, hi, thanks for the opportunity, and, congratulations again on maintaining your profitability despite a difficult quarter. You know, some of my questions are answered, but I would like to ask one question for sir. Is that on the NPI venture, the only commissioned smelter in Indonesia, is it currently viable at the $17,000 nickel price? Or what would be the viability of this project at nickel, of, what average price of nickel have you considered in terms of a longer-term viability for this project?
Rajesh, as you in our business, we have seen the nickel, and we don't take a call on nickel, let me tell you, I think, frankly, because we have moved away from that business model, and we started doing the mostly on, that, how we should maintain a consistent inventory. When it's not that when nickel looks down, we take a higher inventory and when it comes... So even this project was, had two objectives, if I recall. One, one is on the, backward integration to raw material security, which remains as it is.
In fact, that strategic objective remains completely intact as it is. Second was on that process, which was on, also on that to help expanding the margins through this, going back into the value chain, which obviously, as I mentioned, because once you maintain more of a strategic nickel inventories, it may go up and down, but payback period may delay slightly in that case, but typically we have seen it does not remain in those levels. So on an average basis, we expect it to be on track. So I think strategic objective remains. That was the first objective. That is completely intact. Profitability-wise, at this current level, it may sometimes not look good, as good as what we would have invested at that point of time.
But in our business, as you were saying, it's more we are working on a stable inventory management level. So from that perspective, we will continue to hold the stable margin range into this project also.
Just a related question on the investments you make, say, over a longer term, what is the kind of return you kind of anticipate on these investments? I mean, over a longer term frame in terms of the ROIs on these projects.
Our well-defined capital allocation policy, which we have published, is that at least 15% ROI for all the growth, investment and the projects.
Including NPIS?
Yes, it is, right.
Okay, because you mentioned earlier that I think despite the project being commissioned on time, the actual volumes from this may come a little later. So I was just wondering why that is happening.
No, but no, that is a common avenue. That is the way these projects work. Once they get commissioned, then one or two quarters they take to ramp up. It is not that quick ramping up. That's a very normal thing with these projects.
Correct. That's with any company, any facility, any factory, any country, ramp up is always a long, drawn process.
And that ramp up part is irrespective of when you commission. Even if you commission that after two years, the same period, it will take to ramp up. Yes.
Okay. And my last question is that, now that we have reduced the volume guidance somewhat, I think the new, the expansion of, in Jajpur will take now, three years to kind of come to full utilization instead of, the two years you're looking at earlier. So in that case, will we undertake any large CapEx, before that? Or we will look at, first, this utilization getting, first, this facility getting utilized before we look at a larger kind of investment?
We are not changing, we are not changing that. We still feel utilization should come up quite fast. For next year we are quite bullish again. We're not revising our guidance for next year volume growth, because, you know, there really is no reason for volume dip other than shipping time has increased, your container availability is less, your costs have gone up, which you're not able to pass on to your customers at this moment, because in their own markets, all your stainless steel companies' volumes are down. Which is why they are also quite competitive and they're quite aggressive there. Absolutely, the minute any respite comes in one of these wars or something, again, our volumes will pick up. Because we are in constant dialogue with our customers.
They want our material, they're requiring our material, but obviously because of... we also don't want to dip our margins and still maintain a steady volume growth. This is the situation at the moment.
So all this, if you see, Rajesh, is a temporary one, I would say, is that, like West Asia war prices that see higher time, lower, pickup in the, Germany and some of these geographies. We, I think and then domestic demand remain very strong. So if you see even domestic side, we have all still achieved, despite all these challenges, a 10% volume growth in this, and we will have a higher volume growth in H2, in domestic market. So, and as the premium domestic segment continues to grow faster than the normal stainless steel growth rate, we will continue to tap those opportunities. So it's not, it's, see, we are seeing is it, it looks more temporary at this stage, and we wanted to be prudent at this time.
If quarter four also, if the export volumes really pick it up, means there. A good thing is that our inventories levels in the Europe, that channel is very low. So that you can see from our Iberjindal , which was earlier having a stocks of the inventory that has been completely exhausted now. So in fact, the channel level inventories are at a almost is completely exhausted in that system. So whenever the demand picks come up, it will eventually get the opportunity to tap that.
Right, sir. I'll get back in the queue. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Vikash Singh from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead, sir.
Good afternoon, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted to understand one thing from the NPI project. By which quarter do you think that the plant will be ramped up and will give us economic hedge in terms of the nickel prices? And, once this plant is ramped up, what are the plans with the cash flow, which would be generated from that project?
FY 2026 onwards, as Mr. Khulbe mentioned, it takes two, three quarters to ramp it up. FY 2026, we should see a good utilization of this under this project. Cash flow-wise, that obviously idea is to bring the cash flow is to strengthen the parent company cash flow. It is a 100% subsidiary route. There is a mechanism to have a regular dividend from that entity to coming to India level or our Singapore subsidiary level. We will continue to have as per our overall capital allocation pool. It will be part of the overall cash pool which we have.
So that the one million ton furnace which we are putting up there, for that the cash flow firstly would go for India, and this cash flow probably arriving later on, so would come back later on. Is that a right understanding?
That INR 750 crore, which we were supposed to invest in the Indonesia project.
It's not that the downstream subsidiary route is different. It's not that India to Indonesia we can, we will transfer the money. Both projects are separately, are completely separate, and as in separate entities. Overall cash pool, you can say yes, but it's not that one RKEF money will immediately be diverted without bringing to India. The answer is no.
Understood. And just, one last question. Any update on-
Can I just request you to come again in the queue for a follow-up question?
Okay, sure.
The next question is from the line of Anupam Gupta from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead, sir.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, sir. Just, a couple of questions. Firstly, you said that Chromeni is the priority, so when do we see, sort of ramp up starting from at Chromeni, and what sort of volumes we should build in for this year?
Chromeni, by the end of this quarter, we are expecting it to start. And then, immediately after that, we believe it should start getting ramped up. And we are very confident, looking at the equipment and conditions over there, that we should be able to ramp it up very fast.
Okay. Understand. And, secondly, on the debt side, now that you have seen a reduction in this quarter, what is the expectation of debt for the end of this year?
So, our end of year guidance, because since some of the volumes guidance we have been reduced, what we are saying that we will not have an increased debt, and because of all this reduction working capital optimization, which we are doing, and that will help us to make up that gap. So we are maintaining that around INR 5,500 crore of year-end debt guidance.
Okay. Okay. Understand. Yeah, that's all from my side.
Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Ashish Kejriwal from Nuvama Wealth Management. Please go ahead, sir.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for giving me the opportunity. Sir, two quick questions. One, though our export market, we have witnessed, you know, weakness in demand and all, but if you look at even in the domestic market, we have delivered around 11% YoY growth in the first half, which is very much lower than 20% what we were expected earlier. So is it mainly because the overall demand is relatively weaker than what we expected, or there are certain segments which we don't want to go because that will hurt our margins again? That's my first question.
Yeah, that is the second part is the main reason, Ashish, because domestic market being fairly, decent volume and decent size, so we could have definitely increased our volumes, push more volume domestic market, but that would have severely hit our margins. So we took a call that we should definitely increase volumes, push volumes, but in those areas where we have good margins and, earnings. So that's why it was more a strategic call, from this angle. Otherwise, we in very high growth in India very easily.
Understood, but this was the expectation in the beginning of the year.
There was a partial shutdown. Yes. Q2 had a shutdown of 10 days-1 5 days, hovering between two months, so that is why also volumes in domestic are little less in Q2.
Okay. So overall, you are saying that in second half, in domestic market, at least we can have 20% plus growth. The demand is not an issue.
We can. See, again, we can show you, but it, it's a factor of margin versus that. So totally depends on the factor of both of them, but definitely 10%-15%, definitely we can.
So why I'm asking, because at the beginning of the year also, when we are giving the margin guidance as well as volume growth guidance, the only thing which is lacking mainly because of the export market. Now, even if I exclude export market, then even in the domestic market, we are not seeing the same thing.
Actually, understood. So basically what we are saying is that overall volume guidance of 10%-15%, and if we assume a export of around 10% mix, then domestic market, what we are saying is that 15%-20% of domestic market growth.
Okay. Second question is, related to that, old blast furnace, which, they put in a different, in a promoters group company. But, earlier we were thinking that, you know, if we can use part of their pig iron, that will be economical to us. So any color on that, which we can give?
See, Ashish, that project is completely separate out of JSL, and JSL has no obligation to take that material. It will be completely looked at on a arm's length basis, on a commercial basis. So that will surely obviously, the idea was that for especially the ferritic grade series, 400 series, it could help if we get the material from this group. So it could help us in bringing the cost down for the 400 series. But all this will, once the project start, that time we can—we have a choice, but there's no commitment or obligation for us to take that material.
Yeah, yeah, I agree. That's what I was asking, whether or not when the projects are going to be started so that we can have some cost benefit, if it's possible?
... Project is expected to start, probably, somewhere in next month or end of this financial year or early next financial year.
Okay. Okay, fair enough. Then we can have a look on cost side. Thank you, sir, and all the best.
Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Tushar Chaudhari from Prabhudas Lilladher Private Limited. Please go ahead, sir.
Yeah, good evening, sir. Congratulations for the good set of numbers despite weak exports. So just question on Chromeni. You said it is our priority, and it will start by end of the quarter, while earlier conversation, I guess, we were trying to start it in November. And so is there any delays over there? Are we seeing any problems? And what is the... Is there any going to be meaningful volumes in FY 2025? How much volumes we expect 2025, 2026?
Oh, definitely. See, we were first, like you said, looking at early November to start, but now we are saying that towards end of middle of December to end of December, so it's hardly 1.5 month delay, but that's only because of, you know, when you enter a new plant, there are certain things that we need to rectify and improve upon, and also in October, there were severe rains, so for 15 days almost, we could practically not do any kind of work on the equipment, on the software, on anything.
So that was another kind of issue that we faced, which now everything has been rectified, and if the plant, which we're all on track to commission it by end of this month, end of this quarter, then we should see some decent volumes in FY 2025.
Okay. So out of 600,000 tons, let's say, then we expect around 10,000 tons out in FY 2025 and 2026. I would be more looking out for volumes by that time.
Much, much more than 10,000 tons. 10,000 tons is, maybe a monthly target almost, so definitely higher than 10,000 tons.
Okay. Okay, thanks a lot, sir.
Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Kirtan Mehta from BOB Capital Markets. Please go ahead, sir.
Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. Could you share the series mix for this quarter?
Series mix? Yeah, sure, Kirtan. So I said in the order of 200, 300, and 400 series, it was 35%, 47%, and 17%. And this is for the quarter.
Right. And in terms of the, we said that we are not changing our FY 2026 guidance, so that remains basically the 20% volume growth with INR 18,000-INR 20,000 margin. That's what we are sort of reiterating and remain optimistic about. Is it subject to sort of the export mix going back to 15%?
So no, 2026 guidance, we have not given a 2026 guidance as such, per se. What we are saying is that, we are on track in terms of the way facilities will be utilized, because all these things what we have explained are temporary, like Red Sea issue is not expected to be continuous. Hopefully, by stage or more, if we assume that everything is a permanent nature, then it's a different scenario altogether. But all these things, all these are temporary measure. We believe that the kind of domestic demand we are seeing in the market, in the premium segment, is giving us a robust boost to our volume. We will continue to hold on that.
Sure. And one last question was on the... We had earlier said that we'll guide on the tax shelter later. Is there any update where you can suggest the available tax shelter from the acquisitions?
Tax shelter of, see, every subsidiary has a different sort of tax shelter. In fact, say, for Rathi and Raigarh were in the range of INR 100 crore-INR 200 crore of acquisition cost only. So, they have a different, they have some tax shelter. Then Chromeni, some of the losses are there, but I think, let's wait for this plan to ramp it up, and we'll have to see and then, offset those losses actually. So I would say then, don't build it up right now too much on the tax shelter. But yes, definitely, I would say it will always be a, a good positive tax shelters, which we will get.
Fine, sir. Thanks.
Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Pallav Agarwal from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead, sir.
Yeah, good evening, sir. So, just had a question on, you know, the outcome of the China stimulus effort. So we've seen a lot of news flow from there. So, what would be your, you know, the view on whether this will actually help domestic demand over there and probably reduce some of the dumping into India?
Well, this is what even we expect, and we are also happy with the China stimulus, because we also believe that this should help the domestic demand in China and should reduce the pressure, the compulsion of those Chinese stainless steel producers to dump outside. However, but we will remain watchful because this is also true that China has much, what should I say? Much larger capacity than what they need for their domestic consumption.
... While on one hand we are, we also feel good about it, but then we, we'll, we would remain a bit watchful before we conclude on this.
Sure, sir. And, you know, like the carbon steel manufacturers probably are asking for more stricter implementation of quality standards. So is something like that on the anvil for stainless steel as well?
Yes, stainless steel industry is also asking for stricter implementation of quality standards. There are two things on this. What is happening is, one, wherever government has declared the QCO, they need to strengthen the implementation process on the ground, like even checking at the customs and all. So, but, definitely wherever, I mean, on these aspects, the industry is, we are in discussions with the government, and we are asking, suggesting them also the ways and means to strengthen the implementation of whatever decision they are making. Whatever area it is remaining, they are suggesting them and helping them to come out with more such kind of QCO orders.
Okay, sir. Sir, lastly, so nickel prices really haven't, you know, recovered, unlike probably some of the other non-ferrous prices. So what's holding back? Like, you know, the, why are the nickel prices so subdued for so long?
I think, we are not the, rightly placed to answer this question, because as a risk management policy, what we have done is that, we have stopped taking call on the nickel or any of the forex, and that's how you are seeing more consistency in our, our mix. We just do a completely natural hedge sort of, balancing, in our process, so that it remains more of a, with a certain time lag, thirty to forty-five days, it goes into, it gets passed on to the consumer. So, difficult for us, I think, I can see in the call you, you will have a much larger, better people and intelligent people to who can actually predict the nickel prices, but frankly, it's difficult for us to say and commit on this.
Right, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you, sir. Before we take the next question, we would like to remind participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Prasanth Gopal from Spark Asia Impact Managers. Please go ahead, sir.
Hi, sir. What will be your exposure to government infrastructure projects? Any rough estimate, if possible?
Sir, your question, we could not hear you properly. What is the question?
Hello? Yeah, what will be your exposure to government infrastructure projects? Any rough estimate that you have?
Directly, it's like this. We have, like, a project for railways. If you see, end user is all government, even whether it's a coach factory, whether it's infra, but it's not direct projects with the railway ministry as such. But we would develop with them, but we don't supply directly on that because we supply to, like, coach factories. We then provide to fabricators, the contractor who is doing the railway infra upgrade. Similar thing happens in the highways and rail over bridges.
On the infra side, it is picking up, I will say. Gradually, stainless steel is getting acceptance, and as we already stated that, MoRTH, Ministry of Road Transport and Highways, they are also now issuing orders for compulsory usage of stainless steel in the coastal area. So with this, we believe that in infrastructure, the stainless steel demand should come up in the coming time in a far more stronger way.
Okay. Noted, sir.
Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Kirtan Mehta from BOB Capital Markets. Please go ahead, sir.
I'd like to take the opportunity to ask one, couple of more questions. We are developing the other export markets, like South Korea, Middle East, South America, Japan. What would be proportion of them in our export mix out of the 10%?
It's actually very less right now because these are. See, if you see, when you start into any new market, initially it's only a very starter, and you do the more testing of the waters and especially the segment and the product range. So it's starting. We are seeing a positive result. So like, country like Japan, we never exported earlier in the past, and it was, yeah. So then we have proven the quality, then we can actually get into those markets also. So I think the volume-wise, it's very less. I would say it's still largely dominated by China and Vietnam and in our import, sorry, import side. Sorry, your question is on export side. Export side is still dominated by the U.S. and European markets.
Right, sir, and in terms of the second question was about the, we have seen another round of nickel weakness during the quarter. So, is there a possibility that it could lead to any inventory valuation loss in the next half?
See, as we mentioned, is that we try to work on a more. We don't do the inventories build up on in anticipation to that. We generally try to do create a balancing of the nickel in and nickel out strategy and sort of almost a natural edge with a 30 days-45 days time lag. So last time also you were seeing even in a so immediate dip, we if it's a very consistent dip, then only so we try to keep mitigating with the pass on as well as the product mix. But if it's a continuous, say, nine months or 10 months, then sometime it could hit, but then it recovers also faster. So it's both ways side.
Practically, we try to keep a static range of the nickel exposure in our system.
Thank you for this clarification.
Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec Capital Services. Please go ahead, sir.
Sir, is it possible to provide more color on Chromeni, likewise on Rathi, on the monthly run rate, which is possible, say, three months out, just to get a better sense from the volume standpoint?
So Chromeni, I mean, if you talk of the capacity, the installed capacity of the equipment, then the design capacity is around 60,000 tons a month. Of course, these capacities are designed with a certain productive specification, and these can go up and down depending upon what product you are actually processing there. So we believe that we should be ramping up towards these midrate capacities, and in a couple of quarters, we should be closer to good utilization of these capacities.
Right. And sir, Rathi and RVPL, what is the stated capacity?
For Rathi, Ritesh, it's INR 1 lakh 60,000 tons, and for RVPL, it's around 60,000 tons for the P&T, pipe and tube.
Okay. And specifically for Rathi, possible to quantify the monthly run rate, given we have indicated, like, 70% utilization by FY 2025?
So actually, when this capacity, when Shreya says it is only for wire rod. But when you produce, again, as I said, that all these capacities start varying depending upon the product you make. So when you make rebar, then the capacity start, you know, coming down. So with the certain product mix, or the kind of product mix what we are anticipating, the capacity should be around 120,000 tons a year. And I mean, that should be the capacity with the product mix. And right now we are at close to 60,000 ton in Rathi, so. But that's right now we have not moved to a rebar side, but as we move to a rebar, the capacity comes down, but the margin also improves then.
Sure. Sir, just two more questions. I think in one of the earlier questions you made a remark that had it not been for the focus on profitability, we could have done better volumes locally. So a simple question is, as we look to ramp up with all those downstream capacities, is it something where the profitability will be maintained and we are confident on the volume of it?
So see, these are finishing lines, so surely, I think, right now we are constrained with our cold roll capacity. So, certain range of the product, then we don't have a choice but to get into a different segment right on. So which will obviously... So we should improve the margin, overall, the volumes which we can sell in the market at our targeted margin levels.
Sure. That's answered, and last question, sir, would you like to just rehash on our CapEx numbers what we have given for three years and what we intend to achieve for FY 2025? Is everything on track over there, or if at all any changes would be good to know. Thanks.
No, no, everything is on track. In fact, of this year, INR 5,500, which we targeted to spend, almost half of has been spent. INR 2,700 crore-INR 2,800 crore has been spent in March 2021. We are on target to that, and we have, as I mentioned, that though some of the volume guidance, we, it's coming down from 20 to 10 to 15, but we don't expect the debt to increase, because we have managed to, with this volume reduction in volume and some working capital optimization, to release cash in the system through that route.
Sure. That's, that's quite useful. Thank you so much.
Thank you, sir. That was the last question. Ladies and gentlemen, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Ritesh Shah for closing comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Ritesh. Over to you, Anurag Mantri, if you have any closing comments, please. Thank you so much.
Let me thank everyone for attending this call. We are positive that strong economic activities will be driving the demand for stainless steel across the sectors in the domestic market, and we are set to take advantage of these prospects, owing to our competitive pricing and efficient delivery cycle. I hope that we have been able to answer all your questions in a satisfactory manner. Should you need any further clarifications, or if you would like to know more about the company, please feel free to contact our investor relations team, and a lot of information is available on our website as well. Thank you so much.
Thank you, sir. On behalf of Investec Capital Services, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.