Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Q3 FY 2024 earnings conference call of Kalyan Jewellers India Limited. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company which are based on beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rahul Agarwal. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on Kalyan Jewellers India Limited Q3 and Nine-month FY 2024 earnings conference call. We have with us Mr. Ramesh Kalyanaraman, Executive Director, Mr. Sanjay Raghuraman, CEO, Mr. V. Swaminathan, CFO, Mr. Sanjay Mehrotra, Head of Strategy and Corporate Affairs, and Mr. Abraham George, Head of Investor Relations and Treasury. I hope everyone got an opportunity to go through our financial results and investor presentation uploaded on the company's website and stock exchanges. We will begin the call with opening remarks from management, following which we will have the forum open for question and answer session. Before we start, I would like to point out that some statements made in today's call may be forward-looking in nature, and a disclaimer to this effect has been included in the earnings presentation shared with you earlier.
I would now like to invite Mr. Ramesh Kalyanaraman, Executive Director of Kalyan Jewellers India Limited, to give his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good afternoon, and let me welcome everyone to the call. It has been a fantastic year so far. All the quarters have been excellent. For most, for the most recently concluded quarter, we recorded a consolidated revenue growth of around 34%, India revenue growth of 40%. Consolidated revenue growth for the first nine months of the current financial year is around 31%, and revenue growth in India was at approximately 36%. During the recently concluded quarter, we continued our strong expansion momentum, opened 22 new Kalyan Jewellers showrooms in India. While seven of these were owned showrooms, we expect to convert those to FOCO showrooms during the ongoing quarter, and the proceeds will be utilized to repay the non-GML working capital loan in India.
With respect to the divestment of non-core assets, we have secured the bank NOC for the sale and have completed the documentation with the buyer. In addition to the advance received earlier, we have received one more tranche of funds and expect to conclude the sale soon. Proceeds from this sale shall also be utilized to repay the debt in India. We are well on track to achieve the debt reduction target set for the current financial year. We are embarking on a debt reduction journey in the Middle East as well. As I mentioned in our earlier interactions, in addition to new FOCO showrooms, we will also be converting a few of our existing owned showrooms into franchised showrooms and shall be utilizing the proceeds from the conversions to repay the working capital debt in that region.
I would also like to spend some time on our digital-first platform, Candere's network expansion plan. As we speak, Candere has 8 physical showrooms, and it plans to add another 12 during the ongoing quarter. Aggressive network expansion plan has been drawn up for the platform during the next financial year, with 50 LOIs already signed and showroom locations beginning to be tied up. Let me give you an update about our international markets outside the Middle East. U.S. market for Indian jewelry has evolved over the years and holds significant promise. Even though we have been receiving significant number of inbound franchisee inquiries for U.S. market, we have decided to launch the first set of two pilot showrooms as company-owned ones. Post the pilot phase, all additional showrooms in the region shall be through franchising model.
We are upbeat about the upcoming new showroom launches and have launched fresh collections and campaigns for the ongoing wedding season across the country. Now I will invite Sanjay to take you to the financial highlights of the quarter. Sanjay?
Thank you, Ramesh. Good afternoon, everybody. We just completed a good quarter, and I shall give you some details about the numbers in this last just concluded quarter. We reported a consolidated revenue of INR 5,223 crore, a growth of 34.5% over the same period in the previous year.
... consolidated profit after tax was INR 180 crore versus INR 148 crore in the same quarter of the previous year. Now, so I want to just break this up between the India and the Middle East. I'll start with the India numbers. India revenue came in at INR 4,512 crore, a 40% growth when compared to the corresponding quarter in the previous years. India profit after tax came in at INR 168 crore, compared to INR 133 crore in the same quarter of the previous year, a 26% growth. Moving now to the Middle East. Revenue for the quarter in the Middle East was about INR 683 crore, a 6% growth compared to the same quarter in the previous year.
The Middle East business posted a profit of INR 14 crore for the quarter, compared to a profit of INR 17 crore in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. During this quarter just concluded, we opened 26 showrooms in India across the Kalyan and Candere formats. With this, I'm done with the summary of the financials, and we now open the floor for questions. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Shirish Pardeshi from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead.
Hi, Ramesh, sir, and team. Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity, and congratulations for good set of numbers.
Yeah, thank you.
Starting with the revenue growth momentum in the Middle East, and there is a loss. I mean, there is a PAT which is declined. So if you could give little more color, how you look at the next two to three quarters for the Middle East business?
The Middle East, yeah. So, revenue has grown by around, what, 6.5%. And, SSTs have been in the range of, what, 4%-5%. And, the PAT de-growth which you see is predominantly because of the interest rate hike, which has been there over the past two-three quarters now. And, there is at least a 2% interest rate hike, which has been there when you compare to Q3 of last year. And one more reason is that franchisee share comes with a lesser growth margin. So these are the major, two reasons why you see a de-growth in PAT, even after a 5%-6% revenue growth.
Way forward, I think it should be good because market is still vibrant and store expansion is also there and franchisee otherwise have also been signed for expansion there.
So, follow up here, what is this INR 50 million corporate guarantee we have given? And then what is it going to do to the impact on the Middle East business?
So the guarantee which you see is, you know, that in India, we had. The franchisee was very successful because predominantly the major reason being, we have tie-ups with banks and NBFCs here in India who fund our franchisee partners in their own terms. There, we did not have such kind of a tie up there and the partners whom we were looking for also could not arrange any funding in that region. So, now we successfully have tied up with financing houses, where they will fund our franchisee partners. The only difference being, we will have to issue a corporate guarantee on their behalf. So that is what you see as the additional corporate guarantee which is given.
But the advantage there, what we have got is that since we are in talks with the banks there, because they also know the rest, next two-three years, what is our plan in Middle East, because franchisee is coming in and more liquidity is coming in, and over the past two years also, Middle East has been behaving good, okay? And we could actually release Corporate Guarantee from certain banks. So the additional Corporate Guarantee is not very high, so it is almost a neutral transaction. But the guarantee which you see now in the update is that guarantee is going to on behalf of franchisee partners, but we have released certain Corporate Guarantee also. So it is almost a neutral transaction which you see.
I understand. But, but sorry, I'm little halting more. About 15 months before we were also planning to fundraise in the international market. Now, is those plans are alive?
Bond, you mean?
Yes.
We are not sure about the bond market still, because, you know, it's a bit choppy, but it's not a no. But as we speak, we don't see anything coming up very shortly.
Okay. My second question is on India business. I think the revenue momentum is stronger. But when I see the showroom contribution from the franchise zone is rising, but it is not directly reflecting into the studded share. Studded share is still hovering between 27, 20, and 29%.
Yeah.
So what is the problem here? I mean, I do understand, you have been taking a lot of efforts to develop these stores and franchise, but I think I was expecting that, we should be, neck to neck, with the competition, maybe about 30%+.
... Yeah, for two reasons, one being, at the store level, especially in the non-south markets, the standard ratio is still at, in the range of 30%. But what you see here is majorly because the first time revenue which we get when we open a franchisee store, that standard revenue might not be, at 30%, because it depends upon market to market, no? For certain markets, we'll have to keep some hyperlocal, gold jewelry, wherein the standard, composition which we sell in that initial bulk revenue might not be 30%.
Okay. Okay, got it. And the last, I think we see the festive season has seen a lot of discounting. So could you paint some picture how the competition behaved this time? Because everybody's trying to look at the same pie, and the discretionary spends. So is the competitive intensity is now normalized, or you think even quarter four, you will see the similar intensity?
Competition is part, now, you have seen it. I mean, every quarter competition is there, every market competition is there. It's how you handle your competition during various times, right? So during the period immediately after Diwali, yes, you are right. We saw some, heightened level of intensity in competition because the gold price suddenly started going up, where the, the local players in many markets, we started seeing more competition. Otherwise, it's very flattish. So we also spend more on promotions and campaigns in those regions where we saw this level of, competition intensity to, match in our, match in competition with them.
Okay. Just one last question for Sanjay. You have signed 50 LOI for Candere. At what stage you think the store expansion will take a speed?
Sorry, your voice, faded a little. At what stage would-
So the presentation says that we have signed 50 LOI for the Candere business.
Right.
So at what stage we see the speed will, which will pick up? Is it going to bunch up in quarter one next year, quarter two, or it will be evenly spread out, or we have plans to open few in quarter four also this year?
We will open, I think, about 12 in this quarter. The bulk of the 50 will kind of get spread out over next year. There's probably some upside on that number, but we'll talk of that later. This is the way I think it'll build over the next years.
Yeah. The reason why I'm asking is the offline is going to really solve the problem for Candere's sales decline? That's the whole question.
I think-
The last two, three quarters, we've been seeing there is a consistent decline.
I think, I think the first point we want to communicate is that this is an omni-channel business, and we believe the online business is going to be complemented. And as the offline store network rolls out, we'll have a good network effect, which will allow sales to come back. We are already seeing that in the seven-eight outlets that we are operating now, and I think we are headed in the right direction on that. We are not doing anything new. We are just seeing what is already playing out in the market with other brands.
Okay. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask questions. Next question is from the line of Gaurav Jogani from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity, sir. So sir, first question was with regards to Q4. How are the... How are you seeing the trends emerging in Q4, the first month is completed? So one on that, and second, on the store expansion plans for Q4 specifically, I mean, what kind of store expansion plans do you have for Q4 and the year end?
Yeah. So, momentum in January, it's continuing, like Q3. The SSTs have been very similar to what we have seen in Q3. Momentum is strong. And, store expansion for Q4, we will be opening at least 15 Kalyan showrooms and again, 12 Candere stores. Middle East can be one. And, next year we will be opening 80 Kalyan showrooms in India. International will be in the range of four-five, and Candere is minimum of 50, because 50 we are talking about is only franchise. Candere expansion will be a mix of franchise and owned. So we are already signed 50, and we are still signing, and we are looking out for locations. So Candere expansions, it should not be 50, it should be a minimum of 50.
Sure, sir. Got that. Sir, you also mentioned in that, you're planning to open two showrooms in the U.S. market. So that will be inclusive of the four-five guidance that you gave for the international markets?
Yeah. So that will include, five will be including the two.
Okay. Okay. Okay, sure. And sir, you know, my question also, again, is with regards to that guarantee part, the guarantee thing, if you can explain it sort of bit better, because it was a bit confusing. So I wasn't very clear on it.
I will do a detailed explanation, okay? As you are aware, we launched our first franchisee showroom in the region recently, and we have signed 5 LOI for the current financial year. One of the key factors for the success of franchisee rollout in India has been because we have tie-ups with banks and NBFCs who will fund to our franchisee partners in their own terms. But unlike in India, the only difference in Middle East is that we, we'll have to provide a corporate guarantee for these facilities which they provide to our franchisee partners. The corporate guarantee that you are referring to is for this purpose only, okay? The additional corporate guarantee given is only, say, what, INR 10 million or INR 11 million.
That will also come out, because we are reducing debt in the Middle East, because we are converting three showrooms there into franchisee from own, and this corporate guarantee of additionally INR 10 or 11, which is given now, will also come out in the next three or four months. So it will be a neutral transaction. The only difference being, as of now, all the corporate guarantee given is for Kalyan Jewellers loan, but the corporate guarantee which we are issuing now is not for Kalyan Jewellers loan. It is for the loan taken by the franchisee partners, and we give the corporate guarantee on their behalf.
Okay. So, in effect, I mean, while the total corporate guarantee will remain the same, now it will not be for Kalyan Jewellers stores, but it will be for the franchise.
Exactly.
Okay, okay. And, sir, like you mentioned, you know, that even in India, there are banks and NBFCs who gave the franchisees funding because of us. But is there any recourse, I mean, in case of any fault by the franchise partner in payments, will there be any recourse to Kalyan Jewellers in that case or not?
No, no, no, nothing, nothing.
Okay.
I think that's all.
Okay. Sir, my last bit is on the interest part, the interest expense part. I mean, if you see, on quarter-on-quarter basis also, the interest expense has largely, you know, remained flattish. And even on the nine-month basis, the interest expense is a bit higher. So if you can help us out, I mean, when can we expect this interest expense reduction going ahead?
So interest, because we have hardly reduced, what? INR 150 crore of debt now. So, interest reduction will be seen for the next financial year, because even as we speak in January, we have not reduced the debt because IPO money is yet to come. Only, 33 crore has come in total, and, the store conversion money has also not come. All this will be coming in, what? Maybe by March. So March might be the month where we save interest for the rest of the debt, which we are planning to reduce. And next year, of course, the full INR 300 crore-INR 350 crore, which we reduced this year, you should see interest again.
Okay.
Plus-
Yeah. So next year, what will be the guidance for the debt reduction?
So debt reduction for the next year, what we can estimate is INR 350 crore, 300 to 350 crore, which we reduced this year, will be there for the full year. Next year, debt reduction will be in the range of INR 400 crore-INR 450 crore, out of which you keep an average of, say, INR 200 crore for the full year. So, that will be the debt reduction, if you are trying to calculate the interest saving.
Sure. Sure, sir. And the last bit is on the other income part. You know, I mean, because you are also receiving some other income money because of, you know, the CapEx that you are incurring for the franchise partners. And I typically, you know, that is kind of INR 4 lakh a month number in that sense. And with the franchisee number increasing, what kind of other income can be expected in the time frame?
So we can't. I mean, in terms of line items, this is going to be the only thing. There is going to be the rent that we claw back from the franchisee, the infrastructure usage fee. That's all. No, no, no other line items.
No. So my question, sir, was like, you know, this year, by the end of this year, you'll probably have 80 franchisee showrooms for this, that will be closing this year, and probably we'll be adding another 80 showrooms next year. So in effect, if I take an average, there will be around 120 franchise showrooms, say, for the next year. And on that, should I take a INR 50 lakh fee for the entire year, so that will be a right assessment for the income?
Yes, yes, yes.
Which, that will be the INR 600, so.
I think what you, I mean, in terms of accounting for it, what you're saying is right, but this is not just a free income for us. There is a line item on the other side, which is an expense, so I'm sure you got that in mind.
Yeah. So we increase the other expenses because depreciation amount will also come in that line item, but accordingly, the other income will also come in.
Yeah. So I mean, it's quite neutral. That's the basic point that you will keep in mind.
Sure. Okay, got it. Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star nine and one to ask question. Next question is from the line of Ashish Kanodia from Citibank. Please go ahead.
Hi, thank you, everyone. The first question is, you know, of the 80 new franchisee stores which you are planning in FY 2025, how many of them will be under the revised terms, where, you know, the CapEx will be borne by the franchisee partners, and then, you know, there will be some margin benefit as well?
Maybe the first 30-35 showrooms will come with an old model, where the CapEx is put by Kalyan, and the rest, 55-60 will be, sorry, 45-50 will be in the range of the new model, around 45-50.
Sure. And, you know, while CapEx, I understand on the margin front, you know, what kind of incremental gross margin will you get for this 45-50 stores?
0.25-0.5. Depends, because it's a, it's not a plain vanilla model, it's a, what you call, performance, oriented model, which we have worked on this additional margin. So I think it should be budgeted in the range of 0.25-0.5.
Sure, sure. And, secondly, I think on the debt reduction, just, you know, wanted to understand, if, if I understand it correctly, you are saying, you know, current financial year, which is FY 2024, there will be a total INR 300-350 crores worth of debt reduction.
Yeah.
Then in FY 2025, what is the incremental number? Is it going to be INR 200 crore or is it going to be INR 450 crore? I mean, incremental, what will be the 25 debt reduction?
Incremental should be in the range of INR 400 crore-INR 450 crore, but it will be done over the year, no. So for him-
Correct.
to look at the interest saving, I told, "Okay, keep 200 as an average for the full year.
Sure, sure. So, just wanted to, you know, kind of, more from a debt reduction, not from an interest perspective. So out of this, you know, INR 300-350 crore, almost INR 130 crore will come through the sale of non-core assets, and the balance, you will be basically utilizing the, Free Cash Flow generation and, you know, just the conversion of stores, right?
Yeah. So 100 will come from the non-core, because even though it is 135, net of tax, it's only 100.
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, and the rest is we, we'll convert the seven showrooms which we opened in Q3, so that you, meaning, that comes in the range of what? INR 150 crore-INR 175 crore. So majorly done, no, plus some cash generated. So it's almost done in the way we wanted.
Sure. That's helpful. And on the store part, you said, you know, you are planning to open 15, you know, Kalyan showrooms in Q4 and 12 Candere. Now, this 15 store, does it also include, you know, the 5 Middle East store?
No, no, no, no. It's only India.
Okay. So in Q4, you expect to add five Middle East, right?
So out of the five, meaning, it can, it might be in Q4 or partially in Q1. It includes two new showrooms and three conversions. So all five are not new.
Okay. Sure. Got it. And, just, lastly, you know, in terms of, the plan to kind of enter into U.S. also, firstly, what kind of, you know, like, capital you are planning to deploy in, U.S.? And, you know, these two stores which you are planning, have you already identified the location, et cetera, and when these stores will most likely be, you know, kind of open?
Yes, locations have been identified, and again, we will be opening in the first half of the next financial year.
What kind of, you know, overall capital deployment you kind of, you know, you are expecting to deploy in for these two stores?
That's too sensitive, no, because too sensitive info.
Sure, sure. No, that, that's all from my side. Thank you so much.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press Star and One to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Pulkit Singhal from Dalmus Capital Management. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. This is the first quarter where we have very high revenue growth, which does not translate to an equivalent PBT growth. In fact, there's a substantial difference in your PBT growth and revenue growth.
Q3.
Yes, in Q3. So 40% is translating only to 26% PBT growth.
Yes.
Now, I understand that we are in a major, you know, revenue expansion drive, store expansion drive, and, and also there's a business model change, right, in which we are going for franchisees. Now, in the process of doing so, are you saying that this will be margin dilutive because you're going into areas which may require, which may not be as, you know, comforting on margins as you might have initially thought it to be? I mean, your thoughts on the same.
No. So we still stand by what we have stated earlier, that the PBT growth would be higher than the revenue growth for the full year. If you look at the nine months, the PBT margins have been similar YoY, even after absorbing maybe 0.2%-0.3% of pre-operative employee expenses in Q1 and Q2. The impact of the pre-operative employee expense is coming down and will fade further going forward. Okay? However, if you look at only Q3 in isolation, yes, you are right, there has been a degrowth in PBT as a percentage YoY.
And for this also, there is primarily because of two reasons: A, baseline PBT for comparison itself should be 5.4 and not 5.6 of last year, because we had very few franchisee shops operational last year, and bulk of the revenue was from KJ own shops. This year, significant share of revenue is coming from franchisee stores, where the PBT margins is 5%, as I have previously told you. B, there has been an increase of around 0.3% in advertisements, which was at a lower base in the last year, since Diwali, last year was in October. So otherwise, we still stand by what we said. We don't see any pressure on margins going forward and for the full year.
When we look at it two-three years out, this phenomenon of higher revenue share of franchisee will always take place because you are incrementally always opening new franchisee stores.
Yeah. Yeah, true.
So therefore, to that extent, this pressure should continue, right? For as,
Only, only in Q3, you know. Usually, our PBT margins are only in the range of 4.7-4.8%. Okay? Nine-month PBT is 4.8 last year, and almost in that range, before meaning this year also. So 4.8 this year, meaning 4.9 last year. Okay, so it is in the range below 5%. All the PBT, all the franchisee stores come with 5% PBT, okay? That is why we told you that revenue, the PBT margin growth should be higher than our revenue growth. Q3 was an exception where the PBT margins were 5.6% last year. That is predominantly because of advertisement expense at a lower base, okay?
So that is why we think that we still can stand by what we have said, and, it will be, it will be done in such a way that our PBT margin growth will be higher than our revenue growth. And again, one more thing, what we have to keep in mind is that the franchisee stores also might come up with 5.25%-5.5% PBT because we are working on a new model.
Right. Right. So the new model comes into play, and that helps the margins.
Not only that, but again, I told you, you know, usual PBT margins are only 4.8%. So Q3 was exceptionally high at 5.6%.
Understood. No, I'm now thinking one or two years out. I mean, as the share increases. So you have higher mix of higher PBT margin, new franchisees coming up. And even-
Yeah, that is fine. Even if it is a 5% also, then it should go up, because now you know that it's at 4.8, 4.9, no? Existing last year's PBT.
And also the deleveraging part, that should also kind of, I mean, in some ways help, because the PBT margin is with certain assumption of your interest expense, right?
I am talking about without that.
Understood.
Even without the interest saving, we should be at a higher PBT margin than, what you call, the PBT growth should be higher than revenue growth.
Understood. On A&P spends, because this is something which is evolving and maybe your current calculations, I don't know how much they are factoring in, but is this a one-off or do you see an elevated A&P spend scenario going ahead?
No, again, last, if you look at Q2, the A&P was only at 1.4%, which is 2.3% for Q3. If you look at nine months, A&P is at 2%. So, we should always budget for 2%. Diwali, Diwali moving, you know, from Q2 to Q3, because last time, October second week was Diwali, so we started the campaign by September. This year, Diwali was only November, so we campaign the started only by October. That is why the shift in expenses within the quarters, but within the year, it should be at 2%.
Okay. Okay. This last question on the studded share. As these first set of franchisee stores come in the base, their recurring revenue should have higher studded share, right?
Yeah, of course. Correct.
And so that will play out hopefully next year, although the initial... I mean, the new set of stores will again have the same problem of, of-
Yeah, so even if recurring studded share goes up, because we are opening 80 showrooms, that comes up with a lower studded, because in tier three showrooms, we cannot keep a 30%. Maybe it might be 25, maybe it might be 26. It depends upon that market. So that studded bulk revenue, in that bulk revenue, studded ratio might be lesser.
Understood. Understood.
But again, margin, meaning, the studded ratio, even if it grows, no, the margin is not going to be impacted because, like, even otherwise, franchisee revenue comes up with only, say, 5% margin.
Okay. It will adjust itself.
Only in the one time we are talking about, no? Otherwise, in the recurring stores, studded, studded ratios are strong.
Right. Right. So, so recurring stores don't have higher PBT margin than 5%? Is that what you're saying, even when the studded normalizes?
Meaning very partially, but if they get to 5%.
Understood. Got it. Great. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Manish Poddar from Invesco Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, hi. Hi, team. So just one question on the cash flow. So can you call out what is the cash flow done in this, let's say, quarter?
Hello?
Yeah. Yeah, I'm audible.
So, for the quarter, we had INR 328 crores operating profit before working capital change, and we invested around INR 114 crores into CapEx, and additional investment into inventory was INR 200 crores, which is mostly for FOCO and COCO showrooms we opened. Total cash balance in India has gone up by INR 113 crores.
Just to understand this absolute inventory number now is about roughly INR 7,500 crore? Do you see as a number of these this getting optimized, or how should one think about it?
Yeah, Manish, Abraham here. So for this quarter, we have opened seven showrooms with our own capital. So to that extent, the inventory term will not improve there because it's our own showroom. But those showrooms are getting converted in this current quarter. And where you are right, going forward, the inventory term will improve because the inventory will not sit in our books, it will be in the franchisee books.
Okay. So this should happen, in my understanding, this should have happened this year, right? So it's-
Yeah, yeah. It's already. If you refer to the September balance sheet also, you will see that improvement in inventory term, and you will see the same by the end of the year actually. Even better inventory terms.
So that's a size, 116,000. Okay, fine. Fine, I'll take this off then. Thanks.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Prathamesh Dwar from Tiger Assets. Please go ahead.
Yeah, sir, just wanted to know any revenue guidance you can before coming here?
Meaning for the next future years, you mean?
for 2025, for 2026.
Yeah. So we are opening 80 showrooms and, again, we have opened already. We will be opening 65 showrooms in this financial year. That revenue will fully come in the next year. SSDs are strong, but meaning keep a 6-7 SSD. So revenue growth should be, what? Strong enough, right?
Uh, okay.
It's very inappropriate to give a number, no?
Right. And so the major growth will be driven by, like, both, SSD and, new store additions, or the major will come from the new, new stores?
So three factors. One is SSD, two is 80+ new showrooms in the next year, three is the full revenue for the 65 showrooms which we opened this year.
Okay. Okay, sir. Got it, got it. And, am I sir, like you said, the PBT growth will be more than the revenue on the consolidated basis?
Yeah. Yes.
Okay. Thank you, sir. That's from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Anurag Dayal from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Basically, on the franchisee showrooms, now several showrooms have completed one year. So can you throw some light on how these showrooms have done compared to your initial expectation in terms of same-store sales growth or inventory terms? Are they trending similar to your own showrooms or slightly different, since most of these showrooms are, you know, opening in tier three towns? Some light on that will really help.
Yeah. So for stores more than six months old, we have around 30 odd showrooms in operation now, okay? Which is FOCO model. We have done the review for performance. Majority of the stores are performing as per expectation. However, there are around four stores where the inventory terms is still not up to the mark. We have offered the franchisee to reduce inventory, and but most of the franchisee have decided to continue with the existing inventory in that store. There are, two or three stores where we had to increase inventory because the stock turns were more than forecasted, and franchisee have been given time, till the beginning... They have a one-month notice, which we have already given. So, overall, majority of the stores are performing as per our expectation.
This inventory turns is like 2.5 times or something different? What you are-
Yeah, 2.5 for the first year.
Okay, great. So can you broadly tell us, you know, I mean, we would like to see the retail sales numbers. Will you start providing at some point of time since, you know, share of franchise revenue is increasing, to better appreciate these numbers?
We will surely at the appropriate time.
Yeah, that seems good.
Yeah.
Another is regarding your non-core assets. So I think aircraft is already done, and we hope to receive the rest of the balance amount by end of this year. So do you have any plans for the aircraft as well, which is on the book?
That is what-
Helicopter, sorry. Helicopter, sorry, not the aircraft.
No, no, let us first. This transaction itself got meaning not completed, no? Let us do this first, and then we shall... Helicopter is a very small asset, again.
Okay.
It's only worth what, it's only INR 20-odd crore in the book, helicopter.
What are other non-core assets and how much are we targeting this year from non-core assets also?
No, so non-core asset is majorly these aircraft and helicopters. But again, for the future years, what we see as a non-core asset is there are real estate, which is non-core for the business. Once we repay the debt, we can get these out from the system and which is again, we can liquidate it. So maybe if we repay around INR 350 crore repayment of debt, hundred crore worth of collateral come out, and that can be liquidated. So that is again a non-core.
Okay. Okay, okay. And the last bit is on gold metal loan. So in the domestic market, as I understand that it was reaching the end of the ceiling, and you were in negotiation with the banks to increase that. So is there any, you know, development there?
... So now our primary focus is to reduce the non-GML part. Okay? So then we are in a debt reduction plan. We are in a plan where we negotiated the banks to take out the assets. So that is our primary focus area, rather than increasing the gold loan quotient. So focus is anyway, for the next two-three y ears, on a very conservative basis, there will be only gold loan in the book, because we have plans to almost wipe out all the non-GML loans in the book. Worst scenario.
Okay. Got it. Thank you so much. Don't have anything else. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Pallavi Deshpande from Sameeksha Capital. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thank you for taking my question. So just one, two questions. So one would be, you know, what would be the amount of for the front-ending of the employee expenses, which you spoke about? So the absolute amount in Q2 was INR 5.5 crore, similar for Q3, what would that be? And second question would be, you know, this regarding these new store openings, if there is amounts unlisted being part of the collateral amount you quantified for the extra expense that may have gone into the OpEx.
So majorly salary, so it, it should be in the range of INR 5 crore-INR 6 crore every quarter, this year. And, now, for future years, why we told that this is substantially going to come down is because the base is also higher. So even if it is... Meaning, we will not-- Even if it is INR 5 crore-INR 6 crore, on a percentage note, the base is higher, so the impact is going to reduce. Otherwise, there is no, prepaid expenses other than salary cost, because that is the only cost which we bear on behalf of the franchisee.
Right.
In Q3 also, if you look at the impact, has reduced as the base is increasing. Q1 and Q2, there was 0.2-0.3, but Q3, the base is winning because the impact has reduced because the base is increasing.
Mm. Right. Right. And, the lease expense also will take on ours, and then it gets reimbursed from them to the other income, is that right?
Yes. We lease them. We lease the premises in Kalyan and then sublease it to the franchisee owners.
Right, and that shows up in the other income. So how much would that amount for this? In the other income, how much is that?
Yeah. Just give me some time, I'll just check that. You can move on to the next, and I'll give you-
Right. Yeah. The other part was that what would be the share of franchisee contribution to our revenues for the India revenues contribution? Last quarter, it was around 20%.
It should be winning in the range of what? 21%-22%.
Okay. All right. That's all from my side. I'll come back.
Yeah. So we will answer your question, okay? We, you're on the call now.
Yes.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Pratik from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir, can you hear me?
Yes. Yeah, loud and clear.
So a few questions, you know, one, thoughts on overseas expansion and, let's say, opening stores in the, in geographies that you are not present before, one. Two, in terms of, jewelry, do you wish to continue to do only gold and diamond, or you want to increase the assortments, you know, let's say, emeralds, rubies, et cetera, and maybe even synthetic diamonds? So, those are... And, lastly, your working capital, how much it got released? How is the return on capital employed shaping up?
Yeah. So one by one. One is the U.S. market. Yeah, the market, as we mentioned, the market is becoming very mature. There are, good set of competition there. The market is also expanding. So we wanted to, we wanted to enter that space. And again, we are opening only two own stores there. And, even though we have inquiries from franchising, we would like, we would like to do two own stores as a pilot, and then we might convert even the store into a franchise in the future stage. So the intention is to go and establish the brand there, and again, expand through the franchisee model if the market is vibrant enough. So that is about the U.S.
Targeting Indian population there or U.S. population?
Only Indian population.
Okay.
And second, you were asking about other than gold and diamond. We already have focus on Polki, ruby, emerald, uncut diamonds, et cetera. So that is a focus area for us already. And synthetic diamond, we are not, at present. The inquiry level at the store is, almost negligible or even zero. So once we see that demand is getting accumulated, then we will surely look into that. But as we speak, we don't see any demand, in that space, so we are not into that space as we speak.
Got it. Third was on return on capital employed, how much working capital reduction has happened because of your FOCO model, something on that?
Yeah. Hi, Abraham here. So because of the FOCO model, not strictly because of the FOCO model, we are reducing the, the capital employed. Capital employed reduction is happening because of our debt repayment.
Yeah.
So the FOCO model is enabling us to generate more free cash, and this free cash we are using to repay debt. Then through the debt repayment, we are releasing the collateral.
... Those collateral is what is coming out and going to reduce the capital employed. That is the way the capital employed is getting reduced.
Yeah, yeah.
But the return on capital employed is getting improved because of the FOCO model, because incrementally, we are not investing into the new showrooms except for the fit-out expenses this year.
Understood. So that I understand, how is it moving quarter-on-quarter is-
If you ask the-
Some numbers, that's it.
Yeah. As we speak, without considering gold metal loan as our capital employed, we are already at close to 19% ROCE. If, with, considering gold metal loan, we are closer to 15% ROCE. And this is, you know-
Hello?
Hello.
How was this number, quarter back and a year back?
So, almost a year back, we were closer to about 13.5-14%. Now we are crossing 15% this year, and we should be able to comfortably go closer to 20% and even cross 20% in the next two-three years' time. The ROCE is even with considering gold metal loan. Yeah.
Oh, even with Gold Metal Loan. Okay.
Yeah, yeah. Otherwise, we are already at 19%. We are already at 19% without gold metal loan.
How does Gold Metal Loan work?
Gold Metal Loan, in the industry, you know, there are two sets of ways the Gold Metal Loan is viewed by the market. One set of analysts and investors view it as payable, so they don't consider it as part of capital employed. But in our conservative calculations, we consider it as normal debt, in our conservative calculations. That is why I said if I take it into consideration and consider it as debt, then our ROCEs are closer to 15%.
Sure, under-
So it is gold taken on lease from bank-
Oh.
And it's one is a contract. So, some investors and analysts consider it as payable and not necessarily consider it as a capital employed.
Got it. Thank you.
Okay.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Ashish Kanodia from Citibank. Please go ahead.
Just two follow-up questions. One is, you know, you have talked about improvement in gross margins at our showroom level, on a YoY basis. So, you know, if you can provide any color, both for India as well as for Middle East, what is driving this improvement? And, you know, any ballpark number you can share, what kind of improvement we have seen on a YoY basis?
Gross margin improvement has been there, but very marginal on YoY, the KJ showrooms. The major component, you know, studded ratio again, but we have competition on the plain gold, so it gets negated because of the studded ratio improvement. Gross margin improvement for the next, because market share is increasing and focus might not be fully on improving the gross margin, but will be to improve the market share, because market is wide open and lot of shift is coming from unorganized to organized. So margin improvement will be very minimal, but revenue momentum is very high.
Sure, that's helpful. Secondly, on the demand side, you know, as you talked about a similar same-store sales growth in January as well, compared to, say, you know, what we have seen in 3Q. So just wanted to, you know, get more sense in terms of, you know, when you look at 3Q and maybe January as well, you know, have you seen any difference in demand trend across, say, a metro city versus non-metro city or, you know, even within your within metro and non-metro, is there any difference in the growth trajectory for, say, higher priced product versus lower priced product? Any difference you have seen across in terms of any of these parameters?
So more than metro, non-metro, there has been differences in the revenue growth. In certain markets, we have seen more revenue growth, okay, where performance have been much better than the rest of the markets. Like Tamil Nadu, for example, the revenue growth has been... The performance has been much better than the rest of South India. So there has been markets like that, but it cannot be only metro, non-metro. That's what I'm trying to say.
Sure. And, even, you know, maybe, have you seen any difference in, you know, the growth in terms of maybe, you know, between, say, a high ticket versus low ticket, right? You know, have you seen any difference in those as well, or they are also broadly similar?
No, in certain seasons we have seen that high ticket, product as such, the demand has improved, over the year. For the past two, three quarters, we see the trend, where high ticket products demand is, higher than the rest of the products, especially when it comes to diamond and Polki, et cetera.
Oh, sure, sure. That's very helpful. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Pallavi Deshpande from Samiksha Capital. Please go ahead.
Yes. I just wanted to understand in terms of this expansion of 80 stores, how much would be, south and non-south next year?
Yeah. So, Abraham, you want, you want to answer the other?
Yeah.
Okay.
So, Pallavi, to your earlier question, the rent income and the other income is about INR 6 crore for the quarter. In addition, the right-to-use assets, it has come down by approximately, about INR 11 crore in Q3. The-
Mm-hmm.
The reduction depreciation, yes. So this is-
Yeah.
... Okay. Yes, got it.
Your question for 80 showrooms, we should budget 70 Non- South and 10 South India.
Mm-hmm. Yes, that's clear. Yes.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Alisha Mahawala from Envision Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir, good evening. Thank you for the opportunity. For clarification, these 80 stores are all already NOC signed for the same?
Yep, all have been signed.
Sure. And, the 50 Candere stores, what is the kind of unit economics there? What is the inventory and the asset turn for Candere stores?
So, at a high level, this is going to be very similar to the model that we already have in place on the, Kalyan Jewellers side stock terms and the margin sides will be different. We do have a working model already in place. In this immediate first year, next year, that, we will increase the network, we will be quite conservative in stock term because we are going to, start building the brand only towards the second half of the year. So I think, I don't want to give out specific numbers now, but I've given you, an indication on how it can look like.
Will be, so at least the inventory should be in line with what how the Kalyan stores are, and the asset turn will be slightly lower?
Did you say inventory? No, inventory will... Inventory turn, yes, yes.
Inventory turn would be lower than that. What is the kind of inventory that?
The inventory turn and the margins, both are going to be different. Okay? In the very first year, which is next year, the inventory turn will be little lower, muted, because we're only going to start building the brand in the second half of the year.
Mm-hmm.
Margins are likely to be better only because share of stock will be higher.
Okay. And the 80 stores for Kalyan Jewellers, there's no company COCO store that you're planning to add, right? Apart from some Candere stores in FY 2025, are there any company-owned stores that you're planning to add?
Yeah, all 80 will be FOCO franchising-
Mm.
-for Kalyan.
Mm.
Candere will have a few owned stores.
Okay. Middle East or the international, apart from the two in U.S., there's nothing else that will be COCO?
Yeah. So there'll be no owned stores in the overseas, except the two in the U.S. Of course, as-
Got it.
You know that even this year, by the end of March, we would have opened only FOCO model stores, right? But there are quarters where we open own and then convert because the season we don't want to lose and stuff. Otherwise, the intention, even for this running year, was only to do FOCO model.
Got it. Okay, great. Thank you.
Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ramesh Kalyanaraman for closing comments.
Yeah, thank you very much, and we look forward for a great quarter and see you soon. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
On behalf of Kalyan, Kalyan Jewellers India Limited, that concludes this conference call.