Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q1 FY 2023 earnings conference call of Kalyan Jewellers India Ltd. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. Now I'll hand the conference over to Mr. Rahul Agarwal from Strategic Growth Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on the Kalyan Jewellers India Ltd Q1 FY 2023 earnings conference call. We have with us Mr. Ramesh Kalyanaraman, Executive Director, Mr. Swaminathan, CFO, Mr. Sanjay Mehrotra, Head of Strategy and Corporate Affairs, and Mr. Abraham George, Head of Investor Relations and Treasury. Mr. Sanjay Raghuraman, who is the CEO, is unable to join the call today due to some personal contingencies. I hope everyone got an opportunity to go through our financial results and investor presentation uploaded on the company's website and stock exchanges. We will begin the call with opening remarks from management, following which we will have the forum open for question and answer session.
Before we start, I would like to point out that some statements made in today's call may be forward-looking in nature, and a disclaimer to this effect has been included in the earnings presentation, shared with you earlier. I would now like to invite Mr. Ramesh Kalyanaraman, Executive Director of Kalyan Jewellers India Ltd, to give his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. The recently concluded quarter has been yet another positive one for Kalyan Jewellers, and we are witnessing continued robust momentum in both footfalls and revenue across all our markets in India and Middle East. We launched our first franchised showroom in Aurangabad during the recently concluded quarter. As we speak, the store is performing as per our expectations. We are on track to launch the remaining pilot franchisee stores before the start of the festive season. We have built a meaningful pipeline of additional franchise stores on the back of very encouraging response from the potential franchisee partners. Given the robust pipeline of franchisee showrooms and stability in the operating model of the already launched showroom, we believe we can advance the launch of the next set of franchisee showrooms.
In the Middle East, we continue to see strong momentum driven largely by the overall economic recovery in the region and return of tourist traffic. We remain confident on the market and will be looking for calibrated expansion through the internal accruals from the region. Our online vertical, Candere, continues to show traction, and it will be embarking on the next phase of growth, starting with the launch of the first physical showroom before the start of the festive season. Mr. Vinod Rai has been formally appointed as the Independent Chairman by the Board of Directors with effect from July 1st, 2022. Before I pass on to our CFO, Swaminathan, who will take you through the financial highlights of the quarter, I would like to highlight about the remarkable transformation in the profitability of the business when compared to the pre-COVID period.
Our consolidated PAT over the four trading quarters has been approximately INR 380 crore compared to INR 140 crore, INR 150 crore achieved in the few years prior to COVID. Let me conclude by saying that we are confident about the current financial year. Our Q1 performance has been impressive. With the continued traction during the current quarter, along with the robust store expansion plans for the rest of the year, we are extremely excited about the revenue growth as well as the overall profitability of the business. Over to you, Swaminathan. Thank you.
Thank you, Ramesh. Good afternoon. We are really happy to be talking to you all after a great quarterly performance. For the recently concluded quarter, our company reported a consolidated revenue of INR 3,333 crore, a growth of over 104% compared to the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Consolidated EBITDA was INR 264 crore versus INR 69 crore in the corresponding quarter of the previous year, a growth of 283%. Consolidated PAT was INR 108 crore versus a loss of INR 51 crore in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Now let me give you the breakup of the Q1 performance, starting with India. For the recently concluded quarter, our India revenue was INR 2,719 crore v ersus INR 1,274 crores when compared with corresponding quarter of the previous year, a growth of 113%.
Our India Q1 EBITDA was INR 280 crores versus INR 50 crores when compared with the corresponding quarter of the previous year, a growth of 336%. Our India PAT was INR 95 crores compared to a loss of INR 43 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Now let me share some information about our Middle East business. Our Middle East revenue for the quarter came in at INR 574 crores compared to INR 340 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year, a growth of 69%. Middle East EBITDA was INR 47 crores versus INR 18 crores over the same period of the previous year, a growth of 161%.
Middle East profit came in at INR 14 crores for the quarter compared to a loss of INR 9 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Moving on to our e-commerce business. Our e-commerce initiative, Candere, posted revenue of INR 44 crores versus INR 24 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year, a growth of 83%. The quarter recorded loss of INR 1.2 crores was a profit of INR 31 lakhs for the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Coming back to KJL, during the quarter, we had no bullion sale, and our gold coin sale to retail and corporate customers was approximately INR 13 crores, which is approximately 0.46% of our total revenue. During the quarter, we opened four showrooms, including a. With this, I'm done with the summary of financials and now open the floor for questions. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Anyone who would like to ask a question, please press star and one at this time. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question from the line of Aniket Sethi from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, Ramesh. Good afternoon. Thanks for the opportunity.
Hi.
It's again nice to see the comment on good new consumer recruits in your presentation after it was kept in the previous quarter. Two questions there. First part, wanted to understand, is this largely pertaining to the non-South market? Essentially what I'm also trying to understand is what would be the difference in contribution from new consumers, or rather new customers in your South versus non-South markets on a same store level basis. The second part is, while I understand, it's more of a secular trend, the new consumer recruits, but do some factors lead to acceleration in specific quarters?
The growth from new consumer has been very similar across both the markets, South and non-South. The difference in overall growth rates is because of the impact of lockdown in the base period.
Okay. You mean the base period had some impact of lockdown and rather the sequential quarter, and that's why the gains from new consumer were lower. Is that what you're pertaining to?
Yeah. This year we see more new consumers from non-South markets. Okay. That will be because of the lockdown effect impact.
Mm-hmm. Understood.
And also
And
Because we are opening new stores basically in the non-South markets, the new customer growth will be more there.
Okay. What the understanding is, let's say, see, you would be gaining, you know, or rather the share of new consumers from unorganized players would be higher. Right? It's slightly difficult to gain share from the branded players. Given that thing is there, the gains from non-South markets should be higher from the South markets on a like for like basis. Is that understanding right?
No, can you repeat the question again?
South market, be it lesser from an industry perspective, the share of organized players is estimated to be higher in the South market versus the non-South market.
Yeah.
A lot of your new consumer recruits would be coming from the unorganized market as well, right? The share would be higher from those particular segments. That should be a key advantage for some of the new consumer recruits from your non-South markets in
There are two things. First of all, even though in the organized segment, South is, like, more organized than non-South.
Yes.
We have still got a majority or a good quotient of non-South play, what you call, unorganized players in South also.
We are gaining that market share from there. When you come to non-South, yes, the unorganized to organized shift is more aggressive there because there is more vacuum from what? Unorganized players. We have opened new showrooms there last year in non-South markets, okay? South markets. We will get a new customer growth in the stores which we opened last year, no?
Understood. Got it. That's helpful. Second, on the franchising bit, can you share some details on how are you selecting your franchising partners, or rather the franchise partners? Are these the interested parties in the jewelry business or you are looking mainly at financial investors?
Yeah. We are not looking for franchisee partners to get involved in the day-to-day operations at all, okay? We don't give any preference in experience in the industry because of that. We have a process put in place where it'll be multi-stage background checks and threshold for net worth, et cetera, and we have a consultant who does the job for us.
Okay. Till now, how many, let's say, is this like if you're signed with a single franchisee and he's expanding your store or it's more like every store is a different franchisee altogether?
It is different, which we have signed. We have signed six LOIs and,
Okay.
We have not signed more than that now because we are just waiting for the first set of franchise to open and get operated. On the franchise which we have already opened in Aurangabad, it is performing like what we wanted.
Understood.
We have a pipeline of other franchisee partners who are interested to work with us. We have put them on hold because we want to just get settled more with the existing franchise which is already there and what we are planning to open in the next couple of months.
All the franchising is done in the non-South, right?
Everything is non-South. Not only franchise, all the stores planned for this financial year are in non-South. Almost all the stores.
Got it. On the OpEx bit, given, you know, expansion will, you'll see some operating leverage. If just on the ad spend, if you can just clarify. You had roughly INR 200 crores of India ad spend in FY 2020. The last normal year. Any guidance you have on the absolute numbers given you don't look to enter any new cities or we should continue to look at this number from a percentage of sales basis?
We should. If you look at Q1, it was at 2.2%, but on a year level, I think we should be looking for what? A 2%. That's our target.
2% on annually. Okay, got it.
Yeah. Anything
Yeah. Got it.
Above 1.8% to 2%. Our target is 1.8%, but keep it as 2%.
Got it. If I can just squeeze one last question. On the jewelry hallmarking bit, any incremental updates you can share on all the compliance, so whether it has increased or same versus what it was some time back?
No, they are keeping on fine-tuning the hallmarking procedure, wherein there was some loophole where 22 karat and 21, 22 and 19 were made compulsory hallmarking. People used that gap wherein the 20 karat, et cetera, were sold without hallmarking. Okay. That gap is also being solved now. A couple of months ago that is also solved. They are tightening the process, and we expect that further there'll be strengthening certain processes, et cetera. Next 12 months, I think it will be fully set. That's what we feel. Because with the increase in duty, we're sure the government will also understand that that should be also tightened, no. There'll be more incentive to actually tighten the process.
Got it. Perfectly understand. Thank you so much, Ramesh. Wish you all the best.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shirish Pardeshi from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, Ramesh and team. Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations for good
Thank you. Hi.
Hi. Hi. I have three questions. The first question which comes to my mind, that Candere has been growing much faster, but surprisingly you have booked the losses of about INR 12 million in this quarter. If you can quantify what is it exactly? Is that OpEx is going up and because of that this is the nature or, it's one time, we have taken some correction.
Candere, as you rightly said, it has been growing in the range of 80% year-on-year, right from when we acquired it. Now we are looking for the next set of or the next phase of expansion, where we have already started investing in upgrading the software, upgrading the team, aggressive marketing spends, et cetera, because we are gearing to the next phase of expansion. As I told you, we are planning to open the first physical showroom before Diwali this year and we are looking for that.
Okay. This store, again, will be in non-South market or it will be in metros?
It's in Mumbai.
Okay, my second question on slide 36 when I see, it's heartening to know that the non-South revenue has moved up from 30% to 34%. I think directionally it is picking up. I was a bit surprised that studded has not moved in that ratio. I mean, studded has moved from 20% to 24% in this quarter. Any thoughts how you look at the rest of the year for non-South revenue and the studded portion to move up?
If you look at Q4 versus Q1, the studded ratio is almost stable, wherein it is around 24%. Even though actually Q4, the non-South revenue mix was higher than Q1. Of course, we know that year-on-year is not the right comparison because of the disruption. The thing which you are seeing is year-on-year, wherein you know the markets were completely uneven, no? The opening, the closing, et cetera, due to the disruption of COVID. If you look at quarter-on-quarter, it is more or less stable at 24%.
Yeah, I got that, Ramesh. My only point what I was trying to say that.
How to increase it, right?
a lot of energy to get our studded portion up and even non-South. What is it that we can expect in the balance of the year?
Okay. We have constant push to increase the studded shares, and the studded share will be higher mostly in the non-South markets. Usually Q3 and Q4 are more non-South heavy, okay? Q1 and Q2 are South heavy. If you look at Q3 and Q4 should do more studded in a usual scenario. Again, all the new stores which we are opening, we are opening in the non-South markets, which is going to take your studded ratio higher, and subsequently margins will also be higher.
Okay.
That's our target.
Okay. In the domestic business, the growth is superb. If you can say that how much was the grammage growth, that would be really helpful.
The grammage is almost stable, Q4 to Q1.
No. What is that number?
Okay, I'll just give it to you, okay? In kilograms. You can go forward. I will come back to you and give the numbers.
Yeah. My last question is on, of course, we have seen the gold metal loan is one of the thing which is impacting, and we've seen that the cost is also coming down. Margin is not moved. I mean, we are still at 7.9% with the recovery which has happened. I think, maybe after five, six quarters, we have seen a normalized quarter and we had good season also. I'm sure, in the second half season will be much, much more better, sharper. What is it that, at this time, we can expect, 8.5%-9% EBITDA?
Here, first of all, 8% EBITDA in Q1. Q1 is a more South-heavy quarter. Q2 will also, we think that it will be in the similar lines. Q3 and Q4 we estimate to have a better EBITDA margins than Q1 and Q2. To your question, where it will reach 9%, as we have told before, once the non-South revenue mix increases, the gross margin will increase and the EBITDA margins will also go up. If you look at our expansion will be focused in the non-South markets, and that is where, or that is the direction where we are going to go also.
Okay. The last question, you did say in the beginning that we have opened the Aurangabad store.
Yeah.
You did say that there are some more stores which will come in the franchise-owned company-operated model.
Yeah.
If you can tell some timelines whether this will be before the season, next season or it will be during the season or post quarter three, quarter four?
The pilot franchise stores we had planned for six numbers.
Correct.
Now one is already done. Rest five will be done before Diwali.
Okay. Before Diwali.
Yeah.
Can you share a month's experience, what is it that you have experienced in Aurangabad?
It is, I mean, regarding the store success, there is no challenge at all because we have been expanding over new markets for the past many years. The only area was to fit in the working, what you call, dimensions where it is well on track. It is now more than a month now. The operating model which we had set has got stabilized.
My question was, let me redesign the question. Is it more of a yellow metal demand which is happening? Because that's a tier two market, we can say that. Or what is the local consumption pattern? Is it pure gold? It's a studded gold or it is purely a studded?
No. Studded ratio usually outside South India is more than 30%. Okay?
Okay.
In South India it's in the range of 21%-22%. This being a non-metro and a tier two market, it is in between the South and the usual non-South percentage. In short, it's between 22% and 30%.
Okay.
That was estimated as well.
Okay. All right. Thank you.
Yeah. Regarding your the volume
Yeah.
It was 4,000 kgs. Just for you to understand, we actually try maximum to increase our standard ratio. We as a brand, more than volume, of course, we target on our revenue. We also try to push to the standard where we do not focus on more of a gold volume. We focus on revenue growth because we also as a brand push standard jewelry.
Okay. Wonderful. Thank you, Ramesh.
Thank you.
All the best to you and the team.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question at this time. The next question is from the line of Nilesh Shah from Moon Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Sir, I have a few questions. The first one is just if you can qualitatively talk about how the trend is panning out in July and maybe starting of August? Without getting into numbers, that'll be helpful.
Finally, Nilesh Shah. July, as we speak, the momentum was very good. It is actually the footfalls, the momentum, or the consumer sentiment, et cetera, are extremely positive. In Middle East also.
Okay.
The trend is being very positive as we speak, and we expect a good season.
Okay. That's good to know. The second bit is on the interest cost. Now, given that you know, our metal gold loan component is moving up, which you highlighted last quarter, and will that more than offset any interest cost increase that you will see because of the environment at this point in time? Which is to say that on a sequential basis year on, should we be expecting a marginal drop in interest cost for the company every quarter?
Yeah. If you look at there has been some interest rate hike in the recent past for the non-gold
Mm-hmm.
loan quotient.
Okay.
In Q1. We should also expect that there is some hike in the interest rates. Of course, as you rightly said, we were at INR 1,500 crore gold loan in the last financial year, which is now at INR 1,600 crore, and as we speak it is INR 1,650 crore.
Okay.
That will negate most of the cost increase because of the rent. We can expect a minimal, what do you call, reduction in interest because there is a interest cost hike which is happening now when compared to last year.
Yeah. It will offset that interest rate hike. That's good to know. Okay.
We should gain some also.
Got it. Now moving on to the balance sheet, you know, your P&L seems to be on track. You've delivered last few quarters of strong growth and the margins also seem to be on track. If you just can talk a little bit about the ROE profile of the company. Strictly on the basis of calculation, annualized about 12% at this point in time. If I was to, let's say, remove some of the fixed assets which are probably being used for collateral against your gold metal loan, you are clocking ROEs of about 14% or so and ROCs which are probably in the ballpark of 14%-16%. Does this mean that at the store operating level, the ROEs ex-franchising would be upwards of 20%?
Okay. I will answer part by part where, yes, ROE is now at 12%, and yes, there are collateral which has been mortgaged in banks for our exposure, which is a traditional way of getting bank loans in our country, especially in our sector. When we move on to franchise where our own store expansion is lesser than the franchise and we have more liquidity in the system in terms of reduction of own store expansion. When we go and reduce the bank loans, these collateral will come out and it will surely help us to have some free cash which will return, which will again increase our ROE.
Got it. Can you confirm whether at the store level today, you are running with ROEs which are in excess of 20%?
Yes. Correct.
Okay. Got it, sir. That's it from my end. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pankaj Bobade from Affluent Assets. Please go ahead.
Thanks for taking my question. Am I audible?
Yeah, yeah, very much.
Well, congrats on a very good set of numbers. Just wanted to understand, this is the like-for-like comparison for last same period last quarter would not be a right one. The thing is that whether this momentum of, say, approximately 3% PAT margin would be, is sustainable going forward or do we see anything, I mean, it coming down at some lower level?
No. Q1, if you look at Q1 has been very good. If you look at our four quarters, because why I'm telling four quarters is because we have got an undisrupted four quarters together, post-COVID, for the first time. If you look at the PAT number there, it is INR 380 crore+. Which is like 2.5x when compared to our FY 2020 PAT. EBITDA margins are at 8%. Gross margins are getting stabilized at around 15.5%. Q3 and Q4 are better EBITDA margins because better gross margins. I think it should be more than sustainable.
My second question would be, in one of the last call you had mentioned that, with the franchisee business model coming into play, our margins would expand. Can you please throw more light on the same? How would it happen?
Yeah. Margins will expand at the PBT level, meaning not on the EBITDA level, because as you know, franchisee, the EBITDA margins will come down because we are not going to get the whole gross margin to our books. But because it's a FOCO model at the GP level and the EBITDA level, it will be lesser, but on a PBT level it will expand.
As you mentioned in one of previous participants' call answer that you are looking for an investor who would not be interfering in day-to-day operations for that specific franchisee.
Yes.
How much he would be just investing in the location, I mean, the property, right?
They will be investing in the inventory and the CapEx, and we will be managing the store for them. It's a gross margin share, where the OpEx will be borne by them except the salary costs.
OpEx will be.
In short, no. The PBT levels will be same or more than the PBT levels now for the existing stores.
Oh, yes. Sure. Thank you. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. Anyone who would like to ask a question, you may press star and one. Next question is on the line. Deepak Poddar from Sapphire Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you very much, sir, for the opportunity. I just wanted to understand, first up, I mean, number of stores we are looking to open both on the owned side as well as the franchisee side in FY 2023?
Yeah. If you look at our expansion, it is going on track. We already opened four showrooms in Q1, out of which three are in the non-South, out of which one is franchise. We are getting very good response from the franchisee partners. There might be a change in the composition between the franchise and owned store. The expansion plans are on target. We will see how it gets stabilized, and then we will come back to you on the exact composition between franchise and owned store. As we speak, the plan is to have 12 owned stores and six franchisee stores for this year.
Okay. Total 18. And this composition is subject to change maybe, on the interest or on how the franchisee are performing, right?
As you know, franchise, we don't want to lose the opportunity of the prospective franchisee coming on board. There might be a chance in composition between franchise and owned store. It will depend upon the stability at first, and the first store is already stabilized, but we are waiting for the next set of showrooms also to get opened and then decide on whether to change the composition or not. Even if it happens, it is good because as you know, PBT levels, it's the same, and.
Yeah.
We might have to convert a few of our own stores which is planned to the franchisee people, but it will be only delay by a quarter or by a couple of months.
Okay. Fair enough. That I understand. You did mention that PBT level is same for owned versus franchisee store, right?
Yeah. Maybe better also. Meaning, yeah.
Okay. For owned store, what's the CapEx per store generally on an average?
There are like, owned store it is INR 30 crore on inventory and INR 4-5 crore on CapEx.
Uh-huh.
Franchisee, usual bucket is INR 20 crore on inventory and INR 3-4 crore or INR 2-3 crore on CapEx. There are franchisee partners who come for a bigger bucket size also. That only then we will be able to convert our own store to franchisee, right? Because if they come with a INR 20 crore for a INR 30 crore store, it cannot happen.
Correct. In case of franchisee that the CapEx of INR 3-4 crore as well as the INR 20 crore inventory is being funded by them, right?
Yes. Yes. Correct.
Ideally for us it would be only 12 stores into INR 35 crores, right? That's the
Yes.
That's the rough.
Initial plan is that. As I told you, mentioned before, it'll depend upon the franchisee again, the next set of franchisee getting stabilized.
Correct. Sir, my last query is on your revenue growth. Largely, I think this first quarter was a low base last year, right? So ideally a 20% revenue growth seems little conservative, given the fantastic performance we have delivered this quarter, right? So just wanted to understand the same from you.
Yeah. Yes, as you rightly said, according to us, Q1 has been good. Q2 momentum and traction as we speak continues to be extremely strong both in India and Middle East.
Uh-huh.
With respect to showroom launches for the year, we have already opened four stores, already announced 10 more stores before Diwali, and also we are going to get the full year impact of the 18 stores which we opened last financial year.
Correct.
As I mentioned, we launched our first franchise. It is just getting stabilized. It is almost stabilized. It is again going to give a additional, capital efficient leg of showroom expansion. All put together, yes, we are extremely excited about the current year revenue and the way forward.
All right. There's an upside risk to this 20% growth that we have been seeing, right, on FY 2023 on an overall basis on the revenue growth. Because as I see a 25%-30% revenue growth is quite possible for us.
We don't want to give any perfect guidance on the number, but, I gave you a overview, right? So, we will not be able to give a perfect guidance because, you have got the message what I meant, right?
Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. Yeah, that's quite helpful, sir. Yeah, that's it from my side. All the very best. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Anyone who would like to ask a question, you may press star and one. The next question is from the line of [Palani] Deshpande from Smartkarma. Please go ahead.
Yes. My question has been answered. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Hemant, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Congratulations on a very good set of numbers. I have a couple of questions.
Thank you.
First of all, I would like to know, like, you are targeting almost all the franchisee stores to get opened in non-South. Is there any particular reason behind it?
Non-South, as you know, gives us a better gross margin. The gross margin gap between South and non-South is in the range of 8%-10%. That is one reason.
Okay.
Second is that we are very well penetrated in the South. We are there in almost all the Tier One, Tier Two cities. We are not very well penetrated outside South India. We have a lot of vacant markets there. That is why we are planning only for non-South markets.
Okay, sir. Sir, my second question is, any kind of revenue target you have in mind, like the previous participant asked, like, I think you can do more than 20% revenue growth. Any ballpark number, maybe at, maybe a range?
Unfortunately, you know our limitation. We will not be able to give any guidance. On the whole, you would have got what exactly drives us this year and what plans we have and what has happened in Q1 and, at present, what is the status. We are very excited.
Sorry, even if you can't provide a specific number, maybe a range will help actually, sir.
No, no. We will not. I'm very scary.
Okay. Not a problem, sir. Sir, one more question from my side. Like, it may sound actually weird, but I would like to know, like, any spurt in the gold prices, how does it affect the company? On the one hand, there is inventory gain, and on the second hand, there may be a slowing demand. How does it impact it you overall?
No, on a consumer side, as you know, consumers have seen gold price going up, coming down. The fluctuations are already seen, and consumers exactly know that gold is a long-term asset and a very liquid asset. As you know, gold here is not only seen as an investment, but also as a part of cultural ritual. On a consumer point of view, there is no impact. Consumer comes with a budget. If the gold price is very high, the volume which he is going to buy, he or she, will be lesser. If the gold price is low, then the volume which he or she is going to buy will be higher. The budget is not going to vary. There is no impact or zero impact for a consumer point of view.
For the company, we don't take any price risk or price gain on our inventory.
Okay, sir. Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Ashish Agrawal from Banyan Capital. Please go ahead.
Sir, congratulations on a very good set of numbers. I have just one query. What is the guidance for the not a fixed number, but a ballpark, you know, average that we may want to maintain in the ad and promotion expenses?
Yeah. Q1, we had a 2.2% of our revenue was spent for ad and promotion. It depends. It varies quarter to quarter. Plan is to restrict it between 1.8%-2%.
Okay. We want to maintain it as a percentage rather than an absolute, right?
Yeah. Because we will need to do that, wherein if you have, at different stages, you will have to invest in marketing depending upon the revenue and the revenue contribution from different regions or a market or a particular town.
Okay. Thanks a lot. That's it for now.
Thank you. Anyone who would like to ask a question, you may press star and one. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question at this time. The next question is from the line of Vaibhav Gogate from Ashmore Group. Please go ahead.
Oh, hi. Thanks. Could you explain seasonality in the business?
Seasonality, Q1 and Q2 are more of South-heavy. Q1 comes with Akshaya Tritiya, and Q3 and Q4 are more non-South heavy. Q3 starts with Dhanteras and Diwali and the wedding season. If you look at, quarter-wise, Q3 usually is the best quarter. Second comes Q1, third comes Q2, and last comes Q4. The usual scenario.
The quarter. Okay.
Q2 and Q4 used to be similar.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chetan Shah from Jett Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thank you for an opportunity. Just one small quick question. This is specific to our franchisee business model. If I have understood this correctly, we are kind of experimenting in a particular region, non-South area, and see how this is evolving. If you can give us some flavor that in next two to three year timeframe, how do you want to take this forward? What are the two or three important parameters you will be tracking to take this on a fast track going forward? That would be very helpful from your side, please.
If you look at as of now, we already have signed six LOIs. Okay? We opened one store, and that is getting stabilized. Stabilized in the way it is, the operating model is stabilized. Otherwise, store opening or revenue at a store or walk-ins, that is not what I mean because that is all a usual scenario wherein we usually open 18, 20 stores a year. This particularly because it's a new operating model, that is why we highlighted that it has got stabilized and our plan is to go aggressive on expansion through this model. Why we are holding it on now is just for the pilot franchise stores, which is the six franchise stores which we want to open.
We want to exactly understand whether the stability is there in the operating model so that then we can accelerate the plan and go aggressive on expansion plan through this new window. For our understanding, there is a good pipeline of franchisee people who are interested and we have put them on hold because we want these stores to get stabilized. I will be able to give you more clarity on the progress by the end of this quarter.
Sure. That'd be very helpful. Thank you. That's it from my side, sir. All the best, please.
Thank you. Anyone who would like to ask a question, you may press star and one. The next question is from the line of Pankaj Bobade from Affluent Assets. Please go ahead.
Thanks for giving me another opportunity. First thing I would like to ask you, what is our target ROE going forward as our franchisee business model stabilizes? Where do you want to take it from around 12%-14% to what level?
Yeah. All our new showrooms, the ROE is around 20%. The more new showroom comes then it will get averaged from the 12% which is there today. In between, as I told before, we have plans. Meaning, when once the franchisee gets stabilized and once we go very aggressive on the franchisee expansion, once we don't use the full cash flow which comes for store expansion, there will be reduction in our bank exposure, which will take out certain securities which again comes in as cash excess to the company, which will again further improve our ROEs. That is our target.
How many of our stores are so-called old stores which are contributing less to the ROE?
Oh, we have, meaning only one store is franchised, rest everything is owned.
No, no. You mentioned that we have 158 stores right now.
Yeah.
The new stores are contributing 20+. The old ones which are contributing less, I just wanted to have a rough approximate number. How many are those?
I didn't mean like that because why I told 20 is because the overhead expenses are borne by the existing stores. The corporate overheads are not increasing when we increase the number of stores. That is why we are highlighting that new stores are 20% ROE and operating leverage will start stepping in. Did I make it clear?
Yeah. I got your point. I just wanted to have a rough number. Okay. How many are the new ones which have started which are contributing better?
All the new stores are contributing how we need it because of the. Of course, the revenue which we estimate from a store gets achieved. It is not that one particular store contributes more.
Okay. My second question is that we have a battery of celebrities for endorsement, I mean, for advertisement. Our A&P is relatively quite a high number, which is a normal thing in jewelry business. I have seen in some parts of especially central India, where the local stores are using their own customers as sort of celebrities to advertise. Have you looked at this angle, which may probably reduce your A&P? I'm not sure. Maybe it may even dilute, but I just wanted to request you to have a look at that, though that thing.
I understood your question. In marketing, you see, Kalyan as a brand, we are able to scale up throughout the country, which is very rare in the jewelry segment.
Right.
We started from South, and we are able to penetrate into almost all the parts of this country, and that is because of the strength of the brand which we have created over the past many years. We are well-stabilized with our existing model for marketing and brand promotion. The percentage of marketing expense which we do is in very similar lines with the industry standard. It is in the range of 2%-2.2% is what the industry spends. It is more than that, in fact. To answer you, whether we can use our consumers for marketing, we still do that on a micro level, but that cannot in any way substitute the macro level marketing which we do.
Okay. Got your point. That's all from my side.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepak Poddar from Sapphire Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks once again, sir, for the opportunity. Sir, I just wanted to understand on the debt side, how do we see debt buildup going forward?
Our gross debt level is same as March numbers, which is INR 3,365 crores. This will be stable as we go and complete this year.
If I see interest cost, it's been declining since last three quarters. I presume it might be because of the change in mix of your gold versus your normal loan, right?
Yeah, it is.
Current interest cost of INR 70-75 crore, is that the range we are looking at? I mean, in spite of this higher interest hike or
No, the number which you are saying, it includes lease interest, which is Ind AS numbers. If you look at our finance cost, that is bank interest, it'll be around INR 50 crore per quarter.
That's likely to remain stable, right? I mean, in spite of that rate hike.
If you look at our interest, as I told, mentioned before, you can expect that it can be marginally lesser than the last financial year because the gold metal loan quotient is increasing when compared to last year's. Even though the interest cost, there is an increase by the banks, that will be negated because of the gold loan quotient, which we are increasing. When compared to the last year, you can expect a marginal decrease in the total interest bucket.
Net-net, after the impact of these two.
After the impact of. Yeah.
Okay. Fair enough. I understood. Yep, that's it from me. Thank you very much. All the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of [Prathamesh] Agrawal from Varanium Capital. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity again. Sir, just one question. Since we are saying that second half will be north heavy, what can we achieve like 16.5-17 kind of level in the second half from a gross margin perspective? Like with also previously stated in calls that whenever the studded mix ratio tends to move around 27%-28%, we normally tend to make margins in that range. Would the exit for the year could come you know around 16.5%-17% if all things remaining same?
If you see the studded ratio before pre-COVID, when even the studded ratio was 24%, we used to achieve a margin between 16%-17%, if the South and non-South revenue mix was 35, 65. Now because of the new studded products which we have launched, wherein the gold content is high, the 24% studded ratio is actually, it should have been 27% to get the same, 16, 17% margin. Last year, Q3 was 16% margin.
Okay. You are saying in a sense that because of the newer product mix, I think you'll have to you know make that mix 27% to kind of achieve a 16%-16.5% kind of margin.
If the studded mix goes in the range of 26%-27%, then the margins will be in the range of 16%-17%.
Okay. Do we expect that kind of level by at least quarter four? Until that time we'll have clarity on non-South stores, franchisee stores as well as since the entire store opening for this year is in non-South markets.
The focus is on non-South markets. Studded ratio usually is very high there. Q3, Q4 are more non-South heavy. Studded ratio should grow because of that. Last Q3 the margins were 16% and our focus is also to grow the non-South revenue.
Okay, sir. That's all. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prashant, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hello. Am I audible?
Yes, sir, you are audible.
Yeah. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Most of my questions have been answered. Just two financial questions. For this quarter, what has been the cash flow from operations before tax?
Can you repeat the question?
What is the cash flow from operations before tax on a consolidated basis?
Okay. Just give me a moment. I'll just tell you the figure. You can go to the next question.
Okay. My next question is on the advertising and promotion expenses. It has been explained that, I mean, you know, we are very much in line with the industry, but my other way to look at it is that as we grow in the top line-
Yeah
Do we still keep the same percentage or, I mean, the absolute number will be same, so the percentage will kind of taper down?
No, we will surely bring down the percentage. You know, that's why from 2.2%, our target is 1.8%-2%. It will be further brought down when the top line grows. It is not that consistently we'll be spending 2%.
Okay. On the cash flow side, sir?
Yeah, one second.
Yeah. Our cash flow for the quarter is about INR 190 crores.
INR 190 crores. I guess, I mean, the buildup in inventory has been used to. I mean, because, if you see the profit before tax is around INR 400 crores, add depreciation and, I think the-
You're talking about quarter or the full year, sir?
Quarter.
Okay.
I mean, is there a buildup in inventory in anticipation of business in the coming quarters?
This, you have to understand, as the season comes in or new shops being opened, there will be a continuous movement in inventory, which will be requiring buildup of inventory.
Okay. That's it from my side, and wish you all the best for the coming quarters.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ramesh Kalyanaraman, Executive Director for closing comments.
Thank you very much for participating in the earnings call, and we really look forward for a fantastic year ahead and starting from Q2. For Q1, we are really excited, and today forward also we are really excited. Thank you very much, and see you all soon.
Thank you. On behalf of Kalyan Jewellers India Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.