Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the KEC International Limited Q1 FY25 earnings conference call. We have with us today from the management, Mr. Vimal Kejriwal, Managing Director and CEO, and Mr. Rajeev Aggarwal, CFO of KEC International Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in a listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing the star then zero on your touchtone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vimal Kejriwal. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good morning, and thank you, Steve. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Q1 earnings call of KEC. Let me begin with an update on the overall performance for the quarter and thereafter talk about each of the respective businesses and certain key strategic developments. We commenced the financial year with a robust order intake of over INR 7,600 crore, a staggering growth of 70% vis-a-vis last year, despite the challenges posed by electioons. Our YTD order inflows have been driven primarily by T&D, followed by civil and renewables. Additionally, we have a substantial L1 position of over INR 9,500 crore, predominantly in the T&D business, which are expected to be awarded in the near future. Both our order intake and L1 positions in T&D have a balanced mix between India and international.
We have a well-diversified and strong order book of INR 32,715 crore as on date. With this, our order book plus L1 position stands at a record level of over INR 42,000 crore. In terms of revenue, we have achieved revenues of INR 4,512 crore for the quarter, a growth of 6% vis-à-vis Q1 last year. The growth could have been higher, but for the acute shortage of manpower across businesses owing to the elections in India and the continued pressure on the supply chain in some products. Our margins continue to demonstrate an upward trajectory with an improvement quarter-on-quarter over the last seven quarters.
We have achieved a strong growth of 20% year-on-year on EBITDA, with EBITDA margins for the quarter improving by 70 basis points vis-à-vis Q1 FY 2024 to 6.5%. During the quarter, we have successfully reduced our interest expenses by 30 basis points as a percentage of revenue, now standing at 3.4% for Q1 FY 2025. We have significantly enhanced our bottom line with PBT and PAT growth of more than 2 times. PBT margins have increased by 140 basis points to 2.5%, vis-à-vis 1.1% last year. Our PAT stands at INR 88 crores. We continue to focus on our debt levels and balance sheet. Our net debt including acceptances stands at INR 5,596 crores, a reduction of more than INR 100 crores vis-à-vis last June.
Despite a revenue growth of INR 2,000 crore, that is 11% in trailing twelve months. During the quarter, we have realized further collections of INR over 160 crore in Afghanistan. We have successfully repaid INR 100 crore of high-cost debt in SAE to further reduce our debt levels. Over the past year, we have brought down the SAE debt by more than 40%, bringing the total outstanding debt, debt down to INR 300 crore. Now, coming to the specific businesses. Our T&D business has achieved revenues of INR 2,499 crore, with a stellar growth of 17% vis-a-vis Q1 last year. In a significant achievement, KEC received an award for executing the maximum circuit kilometer addition transmission line in India for FY 2024 from PGCIL. This esteemed award recognizes our leadership in the India T&D industry.
In terms of order intake, the business continues to witness significant traction with a staggering growth of more than two times and new orders of INR 5,000 crores across India, Middle East, Africa, Americas, EAP and Australia. We are pleased to share that the business has secured prestigious orders from PGCIL and both existing and new private developers in India, thereby diversifying our client base in the private developer segment. On the international front, the business has secured significant orders, especially in UAE and Africa. We continue to widen our presence in the tower supply business. During the quarter, we have secured a large tower supply order from Australia, which reflects our dedicated efforts to expand and diversify the tower sales business globally. In SAE, the business achieved revenues of INR 346 crores, a strong growth of 12% and a positive PBT.
The business continues to secure a steady inflow of orders and has a robust order book plus L1 position of over INR 2,500 crore. The business is well positioned for securing orders for supply of towers and hardware from won projects in Brazil's largest auction held by ANEEL last quarter. The overall tender pipeline in T&D continues to be strong in both domestic and international markets. In India, the power T&D sector is going through a very exciting time, with substantial investments being planned to enable the green energy transition agenda. In international, we continue to witness opportunities across Middle East, Saudi Arabia, Africa, CIS, and the Far East.
With a record order book and L1 in T&D of over INR 26,500 crores and an increase in tendering activities across regions, the business is expected to gain further momentum and contribute significantly to the company's revenues and margins going forward. Our civil business has delivered revenues of INR 1,059 crores, a growth of 11% vis-a-vis Q1 last year. As conveyed above, the growth has been impacted by the severe labor shortage during the quarter due to elections. The business has strengthened its order book with multiple orders of INR 1,000 crores in the residential building and different segments from the recruited clients. In a significant achievement, the business has secured its largest order in the residential building segment, marking its entry in Northern India. With this, KEC is now executing over 70 high-rise towers for market clients pan India.
It has strengthened its presence in key real estate hubs like Mumbai, Pune, and Bengaluru, diversifying and expanding its building portfolio while exploring new geographical territories. We have strategically pivoted towards the adoption of new age technologies and embraced agile working methods, leading to execution excellence and enhanced client satisfaction levels. By integrating advanced digital tools, such as building information modeling, BIM, document management systems, AI-driven business development, asset tracking and management systems, operate management systems, and fuel monitoring system for mobile assets, we are at the forefront of technological advancements in the construction industry. The business outlook remains healthy across segments. With a robust and diversified order book of over INR 10,000 crore, we are confident that civil will continue to be a major growth driver for us. Our railway business has achieved a revenue of INR 471 crore for the quarter, de-growing by 38%.
The business is progressing well on the completion of existing projects. During the quarter, the business commissioned the automatic block signaling system for a project in Andhra Pradesh. ABS enhances railway safety, increases line capacity, and improves operational efficiency. Additionally, the business is also progressing well on the implementation of power system on over 750 km of the railway line for North Central Railway, which will further enhance safety and speed. The business has secured new orders of INR 500 crore in the conventional and emerging areas of metros. These include maiden orders for composite gauge conversion works and power supply systems for Bengaluru Metro.
With an order book of over INR 3,000 crore from clients across central public sector undertaking zonal railway and metro projects, private enterprises, and international government establishments, our focus remains on fast-tracking the completion of existing projects, optimizing working capital, and selectively bidding for opportunities in India as well as in the international market. In oil and gas pipelines, the business has delivered revenues of INR 126 crore, a growth of 21% vis-a-vis last year. The business has commenced execution of its first international project in Africa. It has also received approval from Saudi Aramco for bidding for onshore oil and gas pipeline projects. The business continues to focus on building required pre-qualifications to expand the size of the addressable market.
In the renewables business, we are pleased to share that the business has secured its largest order for a 625 megawatt peak solar PV project in Rajasthan. This has enhanced the order book of this business to over INR 1,300 crores. Apart from this, the business is also executing a 600 megawatt peak solar project in Karnataka and setting up solar projects for a leading auto ancillary company in India. Strategically, our focus is on building future growth engines in other areas of energy transition, such as wind and green hydrogen. We aim to capitalize on the global shift towards green energy and transportation, supported by government's sustained commitment to promoting renewable energy. Our progress on these initiatives reaffirms our confidence that the renewable EPC business will play a significant role in our future growth. Our cables business has achieved revenues of INR 363 crores.
The business continues to maintain a sustained order book momentum across diverse segments, including T&D, railways, metro, solar, and metros. We are progressing well on setting up the fully integrated manufacturing line for aluminum conductors. During the quarter, the business has secured orders for supply of power transmission conductors from government utility and private TBCB developers. Additionally, in line with our focus on increasing exports, the business has obtained US approvals for cable exports to the US, which is expected to drive growth in the future. In ESG, we continue to embed industry-leading practices across our operations in factories and project sites. As part of our strategy to make all our manufacturing plants water positive, we are pleased to announce that our Jabalpur plant recently received a water positive certificate for its efforts in promoting water conservation.
With this achievement, three of our manufacturing plants, Gutikoni, Jabalpur, and Vadodara, are now water positive. Now, let me update you on some of our key strategic developments, which are led by the relentless thrust of the government on infrastructure development and the rising private investments to cater to the growing demand. Considering the evolving scenario, KEC needs to be prepared to seize the unfolding opportunity. Over the last few years, our cable business has achieved a significant uptick in performance as it clocked its highest ever revenues, profitability, and order intake in FY 2024. Besides, we are incurring CapEx into the business, which will result in an increase in scale and size of business.
Further, the cable industry is set for significant growth, projected to grow at a CAGR of 10%+ till FY 2028, driven by government infrastructure investments, green energy initiatives, and rising demand in real estate and industrial sectors. To capitalize on this strong performance and market potential and to bring out sharper focus to our cable business, we intend to transfer the cable business into one or more subsidiaries without any dilution of economic interest of the stakeholders. This will enable optimal capital allocation, enhance stakeholders' value. Additionally, the strong credit profile of the cable business will enable it to secure funding at more favorable terms. We are confident that this realignment of our business will drive continued growth for the business in both revenue and profitability.... Overall, our outlook remains robust across our businesses. The global EPC sector, particularly in India, promises exponential growth opportunities in the infrastructure sector.
This has led to infrastructure projects and opportunities being more unique and complex, requiring us to invest in superior capabilities and heavy equipment to bring innovative solutions to play. This favorable landscape enables us to explore organic and inorganic growth avenues within our current operations and adjacent new verticals. It also requires us to make serious investments in the business. Our strategy focuses on strengthening our position in the infrastructure EPC sector, while concentrating solely on EPC activities and excluding investments in development assets. In order to capitalize on the opportunities as they arise, considering the market conditions and other pertinent factors, we intend to raise sufficient liquidity through equity. Accordingly, we propose to have enabling resolutions to raise capital as and when need arises at the ensuing AGM.
The board has also approved issuance of non-convertible debentures of INR 500 crore, which will be used for general business purposes without increasing our overall borrowings. In conclusion, I would like to convey that with the highest ever order book plus L1 of over INR 42,000 crore, combined with a substantial tender pipeline exceeding INR 150,000 crore, we are well positioned to deliver sustained growth in the coming quarters. Thank you. I am now open to take your questions.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Arafat Saiyed from InCred Research. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Am I audible?
Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah. So my first question is your arbitration award of INR 20 crore. So can you further explain about from PGCIL you receive, so can you further explain on that, on what terms you receive this amount?
You're talking about the arbitration award? I was not very clear.
One sec, one sec. Hello?
Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah. So my first question is on arbitration award of INR 20 crore. So can you furthermore explain about this award, in what terms you receive this and from where?
It's a small award which we received, I think, from Delhi Transport. It's an old arbitration which has been going on for, I think, more than a decade, and that award has come in the end, so that's why it has been accounted for this quarter.
Okay, and sir, now coming to next question is on, let's say, coverage. So can you furthermore explain about what kind of opportunities you're looking in this space, and where KEC stand in terms of, let's say, KEC will do EPC work largely, right? So from where we are Setting this technology, and what's the outlook for KEC in this space?
So coverage has been talked about a lot. Even now, we are still waiting for some tenders to come in, although there was some announcement that we'll have some tenders coming in, in the next couple of months. We are just keeping our fingers crossed that, you know, those tenders come in. I think the basic issue which I'm seeing in this coming out is that the number of players who have the equipment are very few, and their capacities are limited. Which is why if you look at even the existing orders, the execution has been pretty, I'll say slow. And even our orders, which have been going on for some time, we have been facing some issues, you know, across execution because of, small size of, all the equipment manufacturers.
So we have a tie-up with one of the three approved vendors, and we will continue with them.
Fine. Fine. Fine, sir. That's it from my side, and we'll come back in the queue.
Thank you, Arafat. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Priyanka Biswas from PNB Paribas. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity for the question. So sir, my first question is pertaining to your cable business. So you are going for creating a separate subsidiary so to bring more focus. So just wanted to have a few questions on that. So what is the growth target for you? What sort of CapEx should we expect based on that? And since you also highlighted that there may be favorable funding costs, so what can be the delta, and what is the typical ROC of this business?
So, Priyanka, the ROC is actually more than 100, because it's almost operates on a negative working capital. Because we generally sell under 30, 60 days and all that, and you buy at 180 days, et cetera. So typically, we have seen that this business per se does not require too much of a capital for the day-to-day operations. Okay? We have been investing. I think in the last two years, we would have probably invested around INR 50-60 crore or maybe slightly more than that, and the current year, we'll probably be investing another INR 100 crore in this business. So with that investment, right now, we expect that in two years. So the last year we did around INR 1,675 crore or so, okay? This year we are expecting to grow by another 20%.
Going forward, next two or three years, I think, we should be growing again by the similar number, INR 20-25 crore, without any significant investment right now. Once we decide to, you know, once it is these, once it is subsidized, and then it is able to raise its own capital, et cetera, then we may decide to, you know, grow in a, invest in a much larger manner. But today, with the current investment which we have made in the aluminum conductor, and we are also making investment in some other processes and technologies, which will require roughly around, I think, INR 80-90 crore of further investment during this year. We should be close to reaching a turnover of, you know, almost 2,800-2,900 crore within FY 2026 or so.
I think that's the way the plan is.
So, sir, like, given the capacity what you have, let's say after this INR 100 crore that you will invest in this year, so what sort of peak revenues can be made? Because since you got the approval to export cables to U.S., so there will be additional opportunities on top of that. So what can be the peak level based on the capacities you would be putting in?
So, Priyank, based on today's metal prices, we could, we could do around INR 3,000 crore or so. Okay? If, if the metal prices go up, you can, you can do better or if the rupee depreciates. You know, ultimately, it's a function of the, the raw material cost where it is. However, we still have some LT capacity available with us, so we'll have to see how it, how it, ends up. But I'll say broadly, around INR 3,000 crore would be the capacity, in terms of revenue after the current investment.
Sir, okay. If I may, just add on. So, like, if I remember sometime back, in the transmission space, while there are a lot of tenders and orders that is coming through, but you were also highlighting in the past about supply chain constraints, especially transformers and, let's say, equipment supply disruptions to Middle East and projects particularly. So where are we on that currently?
So the supply chain issues are still there, but they are not as bad as they were before. It's slightly easing out. Many of the players have started expanding their capacity. Okay? So I think from Q3 onwards, we do expect that a lot of additional supplies will start coming in. Q2, it will still be a little bit of a challenge in terms of supplies, but not as bad as last year was. Okay? So that is as far as I think conductors and even transformers, as a result of we are slowly seeing expansion happening. Middle East is an issue where the supplies were from Europe. I think now they are getting it sorted out. So I think from Q3 onwards, we do expect that this situation should start improving significantly.
So Q3 or Q4, maybe, more or less a normalcy can be expected?
Yeah. We have to come back in the Q because obviously it is Q4.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bhoomika Nair from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. So just continuing on the cable side, if you can just elaborate on where our margin profile is now, you know, when you're seeing this revenue growth to be fairly robust over the next two years, how are you seeing the cable margins actually moving?
So, Bhoomika, one of the reasons why we want to subsidize and to bring bigger, greater focus is our cable margins are at least 200-300 basis points lower than the market. Okay? We do expect that, you know, with the focus and all that, probably in the next 2 years or so, maybe 3, I don't know how quickly we can, but we would expect it to, you know, at least reach 9% or so. Whereas the market, we are seeing generally 10%-11%. I think we have been a little bit underinvested in this business. We are starting investing. So I think in 2 years or so, we should see at least 200-300 basis points increase in the cable margins.
Sure. So the other thing was, you know, this quarter, the revenue growth has been relatively muted because of the elections and related issues. And Q2 being a very strong monsoon aspect, do you think there's a risk to our annual guidance of a 15% kind of a revenue growth? And if not, I mean, when you're seeing a very sharp pickup in the second half, particularly the fourth quarter, you think given the timelines of executions of our order book, this should be achievable?
100%. I don't think we have any doubt. And especially if you look at the order intake, which we have had, okay-
Mm.
I think I don't think we have a choice. But to deliver and probably deliver more, but I don't think I want to commit right now. I don't think we are even worried about the 15% growth. That's why in the earlier question, I did answer that supply chain woes are coming down slightly. Our own conductor manufacturing will also start. And you know, I think slowly we are seeing some light at the end of the tunnel in terms of capacity, et cetera. So as far as 15% growth is concerned, I don't think we are worried about it. But yes, you are absolutely right that H2 will definitely see a pickup. The numbers have to go up.
We are trying to see if we can even increase in Q2, but that looks difficult with the way the monsoon is behaving, okay? But overall, I don't see any risk.
Okay. So just if I may squeeze in one question more in terms of the debt profile, and the working capital, which has expanded. You know, how are you seeing that kind of panning out in terms of the working capital, given that you may see accelerated execution in the second half? Could there be a possibility, increase in the debt levels, which is why we've actually taken the enabling resolution for the QIP?
I don't think that is the way to look at it. So honestly, the Q1 debt levels are although they are okay, so when you look at the revenue increase, we would have loved them to be a little bit lower. We had some delays in some receivables and all that, and primarily because, you know, the government passed an interim budget, they did not approve some items. And so there was some funding blockages in some of the government projects, especially on the water side, et cetera, where allocation has now been made, and we already started receiving funds. Okay? And there are some other payments which now the projects are getting over, I think we should come. So I don't think we are too much worried.
The enabling resolution on QIP is a different ballgame. I'll come to that. The NCD part was also to that purpose, so we can smoothen out our borrowing, et cetera, but not to increase our borrowing. As far as the QIP is concerned, I think we are very clear that there are two purposes for which we would like to do as and when we do it. Right now, it's only an enabling resolution. I don't think we have anything on the card immediately today or tomorrow. But we have basically said that we want to strengthen our balance sheet.
There has been a lot of discussions going on and, you know, saying that, with, with the margins profile, which we had in the last couple of quarters or last couple of years, you know, we have been hoping that the margins will increase, for then the balance will get strengthened immediately. If that doesn't happen for some goddamn reason, then obviously we would, we would like to strengthen our balance sheet. The second piece which I talked about is you are seeing what is happening on the infra side.
Right.
Huge amount of growth is happening. There are a lot of opportunities which keep on coming up. And today, we don't have, you know, the luxury of waiting for 3 months, 4 months or so. And since we did not ever have an enabling resolution, we wanted to have an enabling resolution available with us, which can cut short the time of an acquisition by maybe 60 days, 75 days or so. So that was the whole purpose. Maybe a part of it we may use for debt, but debt replacement, et cetera, but I think it's a little bit too early to talk about it. Right now, it's just we just wanted to arm ourselves with a resolution, so that if there are opportunities, we go ahead with it.
Sure, sir. Sure. I'll come back in the queue for more questions. Thank you. All the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, everyone. So congratulations on a decent quarter. So my first question is on your standalone margins. So again, straight 10th quarter wherein we have seen the margins coming off, adjusted for arbitration, about 4.5%. So what is still plaguing this standalone financials? I mean, why we are not seeing improvement here? So which are the segments where you see continue to see the pain, and when do you think the worst will be behind us?
Yes, so Parikshit, I think there, there is some improvement in the standalone versus earlier, but to me, I think, probably Q2 is the last quarter that we will see some pain. Because what has happened is that, most of our legacy projects are in the standalone, which is why they are getting over now. And, you know, the railway business, we have been having some issues with the margins. So since railway, railway is in, is in India, in the India books, standalone books, that is why we are seeing some, some, more problems going on. But I think worst case to us will be Q2.
From Q3 onwards, I think you'll start seeing standalone improving, because then the entire PMP portfolio, which you are now seeing, the execution and the supply for the newer projects will start happening. So I think we'll probably wait for one more quarter, Q2. Obviously, there may be some improvement, but I don't see a significant improvement in the standalone. Okay? And as I was talking earlier, we are seeing a lot of orders coming in from Middle East, a lot of power supply, so they are part of our subsidiaries. Then you have SAE, which is doing better. That is again, so that's why you see a large part of the, I'll say, improvement getting reflected right now in the consolidated.
But I think from Q3 onwards, the scenario will change, where standalone will also start contributing.
Okay. The second question is on fundraise. So INR 4,500 looks to be very big fundraise. So my question is, in a way, like, so like we have been adding about 15% growth, so do you think what this quantum of fundraise can do on growth? And we have largely been doing EPC projects. Do you think that now there's a scope wherein we can take, start taking some equity exposure with maybe financial investors, someone, wherein we need to put in some money so that can add incrementally to the growth? So what will this fund do to your growth prospects, resetting it above 15%? Secondly, on... I think you touched upon deleveraging, so partly I understand we go to towards, towards the deleveraging.
But and thirdly, on the equity side, so if you can give some sense like whether we'll only be an EPC company, or we start looking at some of these opportunities coming up in the power side, on renewable side, on the equity CapEx?
So, so Parikshit, I am very clear on the third question, that we will continue to be an EPC company. We have no intention of becoming a development company, because we've got enough opportunities, okay? But as of today, I don't think we even have a risk of it, of saying that we want to become development. So that's clearly ruled out. Secondly, Parikshit, if you look at our growth, you know, we grew from INR 500 crore 20 years back to INR 20,000 crore today, and we have not raised a capital at all. At some point of time, we felt that, you know, maybe there's a need to raise some capital.
So we are still debating it internally with the board and with everyone else, saying that should we raise some capital to strengthen our equity or debt profile? Although we are very confident of our margins coming in in H2, et cetera, but we are still debating it. The third piece which you asked is on the growth profile. So clearly right now, we are on a trajectory of 15% or so. If we have to do, and if we do a large, because you are right, that the amount is large. So if you have to put that money, obviously, acquisitions and all will have to be large. So that, to me, could take your growth profile to maybe 25-30% from the 15% immediately.
Okay. This is the last question around the two businesses, cable and the conductors. So just want to understand, you highlighted clearly on cable's growth path, but on conductor, the CapEx which you are incurring, what kind of top line it can give in, say, two, three years' time? And between the two businesses, what will be the captive consumption and what will be the third-party kind of sales?
So the number, Parikshit, is that around INR 600 crore should be the turnover at full capacity, and that should come in next year. So we expect to commission it in Q3. So, you know, Q3 and Q4, we'll probably get INR 100 crore-INR 200 crore of revenue out of this business. But next year, FY 2026, we have a full INR 600 crore of revenue coming in. Obviously, our choice, our first preference would be to supply it to our own projects. But we don't want to be fully captive, so at least a part of it will definitely go to third party. We've already taken couple of orders, both from utilities directly and from developers to supply, because we want to keep the product in the market also.
But I don't have a number, but probably 60%-70% would come to our own projects right now, okay? Going forward, we'll see, and if this works out well, you know, expansion of this capacity is not, is not a very difficult thing. You know, 6-8 months, 9 months, you can always add more capacity if it is required.
Okay. On the cables business, what will be the captive and out of the INR 3,000 crore which you are targeting this year, how much is captive, how much will be third party?
I don't know out of 3,000 what will happen, but typically we have been having around a 20% captive, okay?
Okay.
Out of the INR 1,600 crore, roughly around INR 300-INR 350 crore would have been captive. You know, the balance captive would depend upon how much of this conductor is sold outside and all that. To me, I don't think captive will go beyond 25%, maybe 30% at the most.
In future, will you ever list this company? Because now you're putting it out in a subsidiary and with targeted improvement in margins to 9%, and this business may get better valuation. Do you think that at some point in time you would think of separately listing it out?
Difficult to say today, okay? Difficult to say today. We'll have to see how, how the business pans out in a few years, okay?
Okay.
I would not, I would not like to say yes or no, but I think we'll have to see how it shapes up. You know, then depending upon the numbers that it generates and the interest that it may have, I mean, I will not either rule it out or say yes or no to it. But it's something which can always be looked at after maybe two years or so. Once we reach the INR 3,000 crore revenue, and it's a sizable revenue, then we will take our call as to what is to be done.
Sure, Sir. Thank you. Thank you for your answer.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shrinidhi Karlekar from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Very strong order prospects pipeline that you have, around INR 150,000 crore. It's a jump from INR 130,000 crore you have had a quarter back. Would it be possible to share how is it split across domestic and international? And between the domestic side, how is it across the various segments you operate in?
You read it what? Sorry, I cannot hear you clearly.
The breakup of order prospects pipeline of INR 150,000 crore.
Okay. I think roughly around 40% or 45% is in transmission, okay? And the balance is spread across civil and renewable, and also part of it in railways. But around 40, 45% is in T&D. And in that, I think roughly half of it is India and half of it is international, in the T&D piece.
The non-T&D will be India, right?
Non-T&D is, I think almost, almost India, except, yeah, I think except a little bit of renewables could be outside, but it's largely India.
Right. And sir, second question is on the order book. You have a very strong order book of almost INR 40,000 plus. So between that, how are contractual terms, both in terms of price variation clause as well as payment terms versus the last cycle you have had?
Difficult to give you a straight answer because, you know, we are running 300 projects. Each of them have got a different this. So broadly, what happens is in civil, you will have a pass-through on cement and steel. That's a major cost item there. In transmission-
Yeah.
It would again depend upon contract to contract. So some of them have got a pass-through, some of them are fixed price. In some of the Middle East countries, it, it's pass-through till they sign the contract. The day you sign the contract, it becomes fixed. So I'll have a... I'll not be able to generalize it. But just to add that, you know, wherever we have a fixed price, the day we get a contract, we go ahead and hedge it. So if you want to, if I were to make a statement, I think the metal risk today on our order book is virtually zero as of today, okay? We are more or less hedged fully on our metal exposure, except for steel.
Obviously, the steel cannot be hedged, but I think steel prices have been generally benevolent, so I'm not too much worried about it today. As far as the payment terms are concerned, the standard payment terms are always 10, 80, 10. 10% on advance, 80% would be progress, milestone and all that, and 10% will be retention. Most of the clients give you the retention against a bank guarantee, but many do, many don't do it, okay? So those are the standard payment terms, 10, 80, 10.
... Right. Just one on, a similar question. Is it on the electrical equipment that you need to procure from capital goods company, where you are hedged in terms of the back-to-back orders you place after you get order?
Sorry, what was the second part?
The electrical equipment, like transformer and switchgear, that you would be procuring, how are you hedged against inflation in that product category?
So typically, most of them would be on back-to-back. Typically, most of them would be on back-to-back. In some places where they are not on back-to-back, they're there with the help of our supply chain, and we, you know, we do provide a firming up of the, of the metal. Okay? But largely, they would be on back-to-back, I'll say. Largely.
Right, sir. Okay, sir. Thank you for answering my questions and all the way.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Riya Mehta from Equitas Investments. Please go ahead.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity. In terms of cables, I wanted to ask that which particular SKU or which particular sector or the end users are we seeing greater demand coming from?
Solar.
So that would be power cables, and that would be-
Yeah, that would be... it's almost domestic. I'll say 100% domestic, as far as the solar is concerned. Yes.
Hundred percent.
A little, little bit is also now coming in from T&D also, but it's largely solar driven demand.
Solar driven. Got it. And in terms of conductors, we, what would be the captive use? I think for cable you mentioned 25% around, but for conductors, how much is the captive?
Conductors would be probably 60%-70%, as I said earlier, okay? But that, that's a choice which we have. We have enough demand to consume 100%. Okay? But instead of just making a 100% captive product, we would still like to keep it as a market product. So we've already taken a few orders from utilities and other developers, so it will, it'll honestly depend upon how much we can get from outside for our own supplies, for our own requirement. I'll say 60%-70% would be captive in aluminum conductor, at least now. We have enough demand for it internally.
Got it. And, in terms of shortage of labor, as you mentioned earlier, so in which category are we seeing it? Are we seeing it in the very base level or in the engineer level, or, where are we seeing, manpower or lack of supply and-
Um-
Are we seeing the group?
Yeah, yeah. So it starts with base. Base is not that bad. It's, it's there, but it's basically people like, you know, carpenters, fitters, electricians, masons, so what you can call semi-skilled or skilled. Those are the people where we are seeing problems in the civil. If you come to T&D, there's people who do erection. The erection gangs are there. So I think those are the levels. Engineers, I don't think we are seeing any issue at all. And even above engineers, recently, we just hired, we have added 300 fresh engineers, postgraduates and graduates to KEC. So at that level, we are not seeing a problem. The problem is at the semi-skilled and skilled worker level. Painters, for example, you know, those people.
Got it. The cable facility will come by what time?
The aluminum conductors would start production in Q3.
Cables, cables.
Cables, we have only aluminum conductors. Nothing else in cables we are adding.
Okay. Okay, got you. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Bye.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Anwani from PL Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for taking my question.
Hi, Amit.
Hi, sir. So wanted to understand more on-
I'm sorry to interrupt, Mr. Amit. Your voice is very low. Could you speak a bit louder?
Is it better now?
Yes, sir. Can you please-
Yes.
Use the handset when speaking?
Yeah. Yes, sure. Better?
Yes, sir. Better.
Yeah, go ahead.
So, so just wanted to understand more on SAE Towers. You did highlight it about the, repayment and I think INR 300-odd crore debt still there. So just wanted to understand, what are our... You know, are we targeting further reduction? What is the interest cost, there now, and, the order inflows and, growth target for this year for SAE Towers?
The interest cost there has come down to around 10.5% now. Okay? The debt will keep on reducing once the, as, since they are making money now, they have a profit, so cash flows and all are reasonably okay. So most of the debt reductions which has happened now has happened from their own cash flows. I don't think we have put in money now for one year or more?
Yeah, one year.
One year, so we have not put in any money. So all that debt reduction which you are seeing is coming from their own cash flows. Business-wise, I think we are pretty okay with them, 10%-12% growth. They can't grow too much because it's ultimately a manufacturing facility, so unless and until we put in more, a lot more money and expand the capacities. Right now, we have some capacity available, so depending upon how the order flow pans out, we will probably do a little bit more. Right now, we're talking about 10%-12% growth.
Sure. Next, sir, on the... You did highlight it on the renewable energy business, that we are seeing a significant opportunity, and we are doing a capability building. So just wanted to understand if you could highlight which part of the business and capability building is happening, and any pipeline sort of there in mind and, you know, seeing the competitive environment there, what kind of margins? Any, any more color, if you could give on renewable business strategy for us for next one, two years.
Okay. So like margins typically would be 8%-10% in this business as of today, okay? Capability build, we are trying to do across all the verticals. So for us it is solar, wind, as well as green hydrogen. Solar, we already have, I'll say, decent amount of orders. We have been, you know, a little bit cautious in taking orders, but I think we are right now two large orders, and we continue to bid for more. So maybe we'll pick up one or two more orders during the year. That's the way. And we are trying to build more capability on engineering, trying to see. You know, we had a solar manufacturing earlier in terms of this model mounting structures and all that.
So, you know, we thought we'll add something, but now with transmission being so much, our factories are completely full. So there's more capability being added on, on the engineering and execution in solar. As far as wind is concerned, we did not have any capability, so we are trying to build capability to design, quote, and execute. So if you look at the AC part of it, we can do it very easily. We're still trying to work with some of the OEMs and all that to see what else can be done. I think in a couple of months, our capabilities and all should be in place in wind. Green hydrogen, I think is still far away. We have built some capabilities.
We have quoted for some projects, but I think there is too much of competition right now. Everyone wants to show that they've got green hydrogen projects, so they've been bidding crazy. I think it will take some time. We have hired couple of people on the integration side, because we want to be an integrator on green hydrogen rather than being a manufacturer somewhere. So I think it's some time away, okay? I think that's the way I'll say our renewable would be. You will start seeing some ramp up in the renewable revenues in the coming years. Yeah.
Sure. So lastly, on the domestic order intake, does now we are expecting that the Andhra Pradesh again, the redevelopment works will restart in a big way. Does that add anything or enhance our domestic pipeline for next 12, 18 months? Any thoughts you would like to give on the Andhra Pradesh opportunities for us?
So, so for me, I think it's, it's a, it's a good opportunity, and we are waiting and watching. Okay? I think, we will see, what actually happens on the ground, honestly. But I think you are right. It, it, it's a, it's an opportunity. So I, I do think that some things out of that way will definitely, come out, in the near future. Amit, I think you'll have to,
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, sir.
There's a long queue of questions here.
Thanks.
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference room, please limit your questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Mahesh Bindre from LIC Mutual Funds. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity.
Hi, Mahesh.
Hi. Hi, sir. Sir, you spoke about the transmission opportunity. I mean, we are a premier player in this segment. So over the next 5-7 years, how big this opportunity looks like for us in terms of ordering?
Difficult to answer this because when you talk to... If you look at the national transmission policy and others, and then when you look at government talking about 500 gigawatts of renewable, and also look at the power demand. To me, you know, we have always been talking about INR 70,000-INR 80,000 crore between the states and central. That would be there in any case. It may grow further, the way things are happening. And if really government actually spends or pushes for this 500 gigawatt, and this green, this, and this energy renewable is not considering even what you require for green hydrogen. What government has been talking about green hydrogen, they want to do more.
Difficult to say, but at least to me, 20-25% increase year-on-year for the next 4-5 years should not be a challenge at all.
Because, sir, I mean, the government CapEx is around INR 350,000 crore. That's what they're talking about by 2030. But going by the generation side, this number looks very low in terms of historically, how it has been spent on transmission side and generation side.
Yeah, I understand that. We are keeping our fingers crossed that this number goes up. I said this number of growth based on what has been happening in the past, and also because of the inability of the states to fund. So I think the joker in the pack would be how much do the states spend? Because today, all this is coming on interstate. So in intrastate and all that, we have not seen too much happening. In fact, if you look at our order book, our state order book would be probably 10%-15% of our entire India order book, which needs to definitely go up, because ultimately-
Right. Right. So thank you so much, sir.
Thanks, Mahesh. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jayesh Shah from OHM Portfolio Equity Research. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Am I audible?
Yeah, you are.
Yeah. Mr. Kejriwal, I think you've done a very impressive job on, you know, working on the margins and cash flow, given the overall constraints of the EPC business. And I think my question is similar to some of the other questions that the other participants had entered.... that if you look at the entire transmission space, the higher margins or value additions are perhaps not in the EPC, but in associated areas, whether these are products or whatever components or whatever else you can do. And hence, you know, we have seen oil companies doing so well, while KC, KEC has kind of lagged behind in that area.
I have a simple question, and I think this is a question which you may also have been grappling with, that is, is there any way that you could transition from just being an EPC company to a product company, given that the sector tailwinds are so strong, supply shortages are there? If at all KEC has to make this change, the time is now or never. How would you look at it? Because I know as an answer to a previous question, you have said that you would like to do only EPC, you would not want to be developer. But I would still provoke you to give your thoughts, you know, to all of us to understand better, because we believe that KEC is capable of doing much more than just EPC. Thank you.
Thanks, Jayesh. So to me, Jayesh, we have been, you know, these ideas keep on coming everywhere every time we discuss this. So, if you look at our current year's revenue, almost 30% of our revenues should probably come from product sales. Okay? Just for your mind, not to our own projects, but third party. However, we did feel that, you know, that's not the place where we want to be, and this is the reason why we are also moving cable into a subsidiary. Otherwise, you know, the product sales could have probably moved out. But what we are doing is, in whatever area we have core, that is our tower manufacturing, which in a way is a product company, product sales. So there we already expanded our Dubai capacity. We are expanding our Jaipur facility also.
Even in SAE, both Mexico and Brazil, we have added a lot of equipments. We are expanding our hardware capacity. We are also working on backward integration of our supply chain, where on the angle manufacturing, et cetera, and other pieces. We set up a PVC plant in our cable factory. I think beyond that, we have no intention right now of moving into products. See, Jayesh, today you may look at it and say that our shortage is so your product, the product is good. Look at two years back, three years back, what was happening? The same conductor guy who today wants a 12-month delivery schedule for me, used to sit outside my cabin and say, "Please take them until tomorrow." Okay? So it's a question of what happens.
Either today, on products you would have made your full investment, et cetera, then the investment gets stuck. I still remember two years back, my tower factories were running at 50% capacity. So I think as of now, we do not have any intention that nobody knows. But I think we are happy being a company, and we would prefer to continue to do that.
I see. Okay, thank you very much.
Thanks, Jayesh. Thanks for the suggestion.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chinmay Kabra from Emkay Global Financial Services. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir, I just had a question regarding the order inflow guidance. So since we have already achieved approximately 30% of our initial guidance, is there any update on it going ahead? And if you could also just help us with the up, if there's any change in other guidance, like revenue or margins?
Chinmay, as of today, we have got no change in our guidance. We still stick with INR 25,000 crore of order intake, 15% growth in revenue, and 7.5% for our EBITDA.
Got it, sir. Thank you. Other than that, I wanted to know if you could provide a timeline on when is the management may be planning to go ahead with the subsidization of the cable business?
Since we have already approved it, we are right now, you know, now the approval came only on Friday, so now we're in the process of getting our valuations and other things done, and also legal and other, you know, approvals, et cetera, and looking at what is, what is required. Okay? Although, since we are trying to transfer to a 100% subsidiary, it should be relatively an easy task. Give a timeframe to the... Maybe between 3-6 months is what we are looking for. Yeah.
Yes, sir. Those were my questions. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepak Krishnan from Kotak Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Just wanted to follow up. Where are we in terms of we are sort of in rating upgrade a couple of months ago from one of the rating agencies?
Deepak, Deepak, we can't understand. I can't understand what you're saying. I think there's a line, problem with the line.
Can you hear me now?
Yeah, slightly better. Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, I just wanted to understand. So we had sort of a rating downgrade a couple of months ago from one of the rating agencies. So where are we on that? Like, do we think that, you know, something could kind of incrementally change toward the positive in the next couple of months? And does the, you know, capital raise or potential capital raise have anything to do with our ratings as well?
So today, it's difficult to get a rating upgrade immediately. Typically, I think they take 6 months or 9 months, maybe 1 year before they revisit. But clearly, if you do a capital raise and it's for strengthening the balance sheet, then obviously we'll go back and represent to them, and we do hope that that can happen. That is also somewhere at the back of our mind, but let's see. I don't see the upgrade happening immediately, unless we do the QIP very quickly, which is not right now, not on the card.
... Yeah, Deepak.
Hello, Mr. Deepak. Does that answer your question?
Yes, sorry, I just got disconnected for a second. Just one follow-up. Just wanted to understand, like, in terms like we've reiterated about 7.5% EBITDA margin guidance for this year, do we kind of see this momentum continuing, you know, in double digit guidance in the works for FY 2026 in terms of margins? How are we today in terms of, you know, thinking of that?
So FY 2026, we definitely expect to increase it. So if you look at our Q1 margins and then if you're talking about 7.5, so obviously, the H2 margins will definitely be better than 7.5, otherwise we'll not reach an average. Whether it will double digit or not, very difficult to say right now, but I do expect it will be definitely better than the 7.5 which we have this year. Whether it will be 9, 8.5, 10, little bit difficult to quantify, but I'm very sure that it will be more than what we are talking about this year.
Sure, sir. Those are my questions, and all the best for future.
Thanks. Thanks, Deepak. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Uttam Kumar from Axis Securities Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, you mentioned that we have received some more INR 60 crore from Afghanistan. So what is the pending amount currently from Afghanistan?
Yes, balance amount, around INR 200 crore, roughly. Yeah, roughly around INR 200 crore also.
INR 200 crore. Okay. And sir, you mentioned that, this year you will, spend some INR 100 crore on, cable business. So what would be the CapEx for this year, FY 2025, including this, cable one?
Overall, we are targeting around INR 350 crore-INR 400 crore.
Okay, sir. Okay, sir, just one final question. That's all, from my side. Thanks a lot.
Thanks. Thanks, Uttam.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, for the cables business, so we did a revenue of around INR 1,450 crores in FY 2024. So what kind of number we are looking for 2025 and 2026? As you mentioned that in 2026, we can reach around 2,800-2,900. So what will be the growth in next two years?
So, this year we are talking about around 15%-20% growth for FY 2025, okay? And FY 2026 would be higher because our entire aluminum conductor manufacturing would be in place. I think on an average, around 20% growth is what we should be achieving in cables.
26 revenue, including conductor, should be around INR 2,800, which will double, so our cable revenue.
Vaibhav, I think somewhere the numbers are mixed up. FY 2024, we did INR 1,675 crore of revenue in cables. Okay? So this year, probably around 2,000 is what we should be looking for, and then around, maybe a 20% rise year-on-year for the next couple of years.
Okay. Okay. Thanks a lot, sir. Those are my questions.
Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Priyanka Biswas from PNB Paribas. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity again. Just one quick question. So I just wanted your outlook on the Middle East CapEx, since I think in the oil and gas you mentioned about Aramco, and if you can also highlight, like, the Middle East transmission pipeline, let's say, for the next two, three years.
So Priyanka, Middle East is doing very well in terms of transmission. Both. It was earlier restricted to Saudi, but now we are seeing a huge amount of CapEx coming out of Abu Dhabi also. So to me, these two countries are leading the charge, and we are very, very positive on the CapEx on both these countries. Earlier till last year, our exposure was, you know, more concentrated on Saudi and in a way, little bit on Oman. But this year, many of the orders which we announced have all come from Abu Dhabi, okay? Whereas we now have large elements in Saudi also, so which will come in.
So it will now balance between the two countries, and we are also seeing a very large pipeline of tenders, both in Saudi as well as in Abu Dhabi. Okay? So if you ask me, we are pretty positive. In fact, if you look at international T&D today, the most of the orders are coming in from the Middle East region.
Sir, if you can just elaborate on the Aramco, that's what I had asked. Around the oil and gas, you were saying that, we got qualified on that.
Aramco I think will take time. Okay? We are in no major hurry in oil and gas. I think we are happy with what's happening in T&D. So we have started looking at that. I don't think we have bid as of now. I don't think we have an intention of bidding immediately, but we just took the opportunity of today.
Okay, sir. That's all from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Riya Mehta from Equitas Investments. Please go ahead. Hello, Miss Riya, your line has been unmuted. Please go ahead with your question.
Thank you for the follow-up opportunity. I was just wanting some further insight on the coverage policy, and I think the allocation of the budget has also increased. So if you could just give a macro outlook on the same?
See, although I think it's gone up by INR 1,000 crore or something, if I'm not wrong, the issue which I'm seeing is that, there is some discussion going on, on, on the level three, level four, which, which level? I think they're right now on level two of Kavach. So I think government has been debating that piece. That's my understanding, which is why the orders have not been, tenders have not been coming. Also, the capacity has been limited. So we do expect that in the next couple of months, a few orders will start coming in. But unless and until, they approve more vendors and the capacity goes up, looks difficult. Or they sort of change the levels and start allowing, you know, international players who have this technology, to come in.
Little bit difficult. I am not honestly seeing too much of opportunity at the moment. Okay? If there's something different happens in couple of months, because as of today, there's no tender out, which means that for next year, if the tender comes in, but the process is 3, 4, 5 months for award and all that. So I'm not seeing any major revenues flowing in from Kavach. Even if it happens, the order intake will happen. Okay?
Got it. And, there were, articles, news articles which were saying that the oil and gas, orders which were coming in from Saudi last year around has slowed down a bit, and I think even L&T had a similar outlook. What kind of traction are you looking from that geography?
We are honestly not there in that geography for oil and gas. We have got approvals. We are even looking at, more on the water side there other than the oil and gas. What we understand from whatever we have also read the same thing, is that they have put on hold some of the projects which they don't want, although they are continuing to invest a lot. So it's not that they have stopped investing, but seem to have become much more selective in their investment. Similarly, to come to Abu Dhabi, we are seeing ADNOC going ahead with some significant investments in oil and gas. Okay, so between the two, I think large investments are still happening, but not to the extent which people were talking earlier.
Hmm. Okay. Thank you, that's all from my side.
Thanks, Riya. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shrinidhi Karlekar from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thank you for the follow-up opportunity. Sir, you have a very strong return profile that you have in your cables business, and this is despite about 200-300 basis points lower margins versus your peers. So may I ask you to please elaborate how your, in terms of asset turnover profile, as well as the working capital profile of this business?
So clearly, if you, if you're asking about asset turnover, I think if you look at the numbers which I've been talking about, let's say aluminum conductor, we are saying we'll invest INR 60 crore and we'll get INR 600 crore and all. And similarly, a new investment, if you're talking about INR 80-90 crore, again, we expect a revenue of, you know, INR 600 crore or so. So typically, when we do an expansion or of an existing, in an existing, facility, let's say around 7-8 times has been the, asset turnover. Obviously, when you set up a new facility, like what we did in Vadodara many years back, it was around 3, 3 times or 3-4 times.
Right. And then how is working capital profile, sir?
Working capital, as of now, is negative in the sense that we are buying on credit and selling a little bit on a lower credit period and all that. So we are not investing on that.
Okay, so the acceptances you have on the credit table side?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Acceptances and also industry credit. But, but it, but it's basically, you know, your creditors are more than your-
So in that case, then, how large is the receivables profile in terms of days, or?
For cable business, it is somewhere around 75-80 days.
75-80. Okay. Thank you for answering my questions.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jay Jane from Beyond Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Can you... Hello, am I audible?
Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah. Can you throw some light on the L1 order, L1 of your INR 31,000 crore? Which are the major orders here, and can you give a breakup of your transmission, T&D business and other businesses of this INR 31,000 crore?
On the L1, typically, we don't give breakup in details, but almost 90%-95% is in T&D. Okay? Split between India and international. In fact, international probably in L1 is more than India. Okay? INR 41,000, what breakup do you want?
Just the split between T&D and geographical split. Thank you.
The T&D would be roughly 50% of it, and the rest would be non-T&D. Okay? And geographically, it would be around 74% is domestic, 74-75%. 25% is international.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pratik Lambe, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Thank you for taking my question.
Uh-
Yeah, my question was on international T&D order book currently. I want to understand, sir, how is it that I can look at it going next two years in terms of strategy that KEC would have on building its international T&D business, whether in terms of executing EPC projects or, you know, the pure supply orders, and also on the margin and the geographic regions that we would be targeting mainly?
... Thank you, sir.
So, Pratik, if you look at our geographical spread on P&D, I'll say broadly, if you look at it, one is our what we call our neighboring countries, which would be Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, et cetera, which is where we had a very strong presence. However, of late, we are seeing the orders coming down slightly. Okay? I still remember three years back, my Bangladesh revenue was more than India revenue in P&D. So that's one region where we see consistent flow. I'll say consistent flow. Maybe it, for us, a revenue of INR 800,000 crore is what we are looking at. Depending upon what happens in Bangladesh, the revenues can go up. Second is obviously Middle East, which is obviously our largest region.
As I was answering the earlier question, we are seeing a huge potential between both the two large countries of Saudi Arabia and Abu Dhabi. So those would be our biggest focus area in terms of P&D. Africa has started picking up now. I think from what had happened in COVID, where the entire funding had dried up and the funding had been diverted to more humanitarian issues, you know. Now we have slowly started seeing projects coming up. Even we had announced a large project some time back, and we are still hopeful of getting some more. So Africa will slowly start coming back, okay, from INR 500 crores to maybe INR 1,000 crores in order. That's what we want to look at it.
Then the next piece where we are in East Asia, which is basically Malaysia, Thailand, Cambodia, and all those regions. Those are typically INR 400-500 crore for us, and I think that's where we still expect them to stay. We are not seeing a significant bump up happening in that. The place where the increase can probably come in is the former Soviet Union CIS regions where we are already doing 2 projects and we have some more tenders which are coming up, and hopefully, if the war subsides and all that, then we'll see a lot more growth coming in from the former Soviet Union. That leaves out Americas, where we don't do EPC, we only do tower supplies.
There we are seeing a large growth happening both in Brazil, Mexico, United States, and also countries like Peru, Chile, Colombia, the South America part of it. So that, that's an area where we look at very positively and do expect that tower supplies to that region and to Australia is the last piece, where we are seeing some very large projects being announced happening. So I think that's the way we are looking at it. Our international is roughly around INR 5,000 crore and odd, so I don't see it growing by, you know, 30%, 40%, but I think it should grow reasonably. That's the expectation we have, because we also need to keep in mind the geopolitical risk, et cetera. So we want to keep a balance between international and India.
Yeah. So will the international growth be, you know, ahead of the domestic, or how do you see that?
Sorry, what did you say? International will be?
Will it be ahead or more than the domestic P&D growth?
So international is growing, but India is growing much more than that. So I don't see international growth being ahead of India. You know, right now, the way India is growing, I clearly think that India will grow more than international. At least in absolute numbers, for the next two years, we see India going far ahead of international in terms of absolute numbers. After that, the growth percentage may be similar or different, I, I'm not sure, but India will definitely be more than international, I can say that.
Okay. Okay, sir.
Yeah, yeah.
Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Thanks. Thanks a lot, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bhoomika Nair from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir, thanks for the follow-up. Sir, just wanted to understand the civil business. For the last couple of quarters, we've kind of stagnated in terms of the order intake. So, you know, are we seeing any improvement, per se, and what is our outlook in terms of growth out there?
Bhumika, civil, if you... What is actually happening in civil is that, at least as far as we are concerned, we are not seeing too much on private CapEx side. So what has happened is that the industrial order flow has come down, I'll say, significantly. The growth is primarily getting driven by residential as well as, to an extent, commercial. Even on government side, we had not seen a major, you know, what we call public spaces, like, let's say, hospitals and, you know, airports, et cetera. I think they're all gone slow, either because of elections or whatever. So I think now with the budget behind us, I do expect that this part will start picking up.
The residential is looking very, very bullish even now, notwithstanding whatever has happened on capital gains and all that, but the number of inquiries which we have on residential is very high. Industrial, we have started receiving inquiries, so I do hope that, you know, that will pick up. The other major areas where we were there was elevated viaducts and water. So elevated viaducts, I think we are reaching, slowly reaching a saturation point where we are not seeing too many announcements coming on elevated. But water, I think we are very, very positive with the current allocation of in the budget, et cetera. We do see a lot more water projects will come up.
There'll be, in my view, three or four types of: One is what we have, Jal Jeevan Mission, which is, you know, on the rural side. Then we have one which is on Amrit, which is on the cities, bringing in more water to cities. Third one would have been the lift irrigation, which is there. So I think there are three major type of projects which we are talking, and we have started seeing projects coming up in all of them.
So I think we will start seeing revenue, order book from water. The growth has been a relatively little muted, because we did not get the margins which we were expecting to deliver, which is why we, we also, you know. And also, Bhumika, what happens is that with, with P&D going so, growing so much, we said, "...". So, you know, we actually became more conservative in civil, raised our entry barrier and increased the margin levels and, you know, the cash flows, et cetera, which had an impact on the, on the order intake. I'll say it was more or less a conscious decision than by default.
Right. Right. So this should kind of see a muted growth in the current year, unless re-water kind of picks up, I'd say.
But on the order intake, you may say muted, but revenue would be pretty decent, because we already have an order book of more than INR 10,000 crore. So there will be a definitely a revenue growth.
Okay. Okay, and what kind of a revenue growth we are looking at, sir, for the full year?
We are maybe looking at around 30% growth in civil.
Okay. Okay. Understood. Understood. Fair point, sir. Thank you so much.
Thanks, Bhoomika.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashal Mehta from Smart Sync Services. Please go ahead.
Hello?
Yeah, sir.
Am I audible?
Yeah, you are, sir.
Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, so I have one question. Pardon me for my ignorance, but in the last con call, you have mentioned that in that particular month, you were doing around 100 kilometers of coverage implementation work. And I guess that would be the month of May, if I'm not wrong. So I just wanted to know that whether the project that we were already having on the coverage side, was that executed and was any kind of revenue booked in that particular segment?
Oh, I don't have the exact number, but we did book revenue. I, any idea? So I don't think we have the exact number. Maybe you can speak to Abhishek about it, but the project is still under execution. I... If I'm not wrong, around 30%-40% or maybe still the project is already executed. So I think, I think it will be probably a quarter or two by, by the time the project will be, the, the two projects which we have, we, will get over.
Okay. And any kind of split? So, as far as I know, that one kilometer of this coverage implementation work is costing around INR 50 lakh to the government. So any kind of breakup that you might be able to give that what part is of our JV partner and what is the part of our own, as in for execution work, in percentage or maybe in ratio?
So Ashal, I don't have the exact numbers, but I think broadly, equipment would be probably around 70% or so. But I may be honestly wrong, but from my recollection, it would be around in that range, and 30% would be on the EPC side. But it's not necessary that all the equipments come from the JV partner. I'm just giving you the breakup between, you know, construction or let's say, execution versus equipments.
Done then, sir. Thanks a lot. Thank you for this insights.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today's conference call. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Vimal Kejriwal for the closing comments.
Thank you very much for your continued interest. Thank you.
On behalf of KEC International, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you once again.