Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the KIMS Hospitals Q3 FY 2026 earnings conference call hosted by IIFL Capital. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing * then 0 on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rahul Jeewani from IIFL Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah, hi, good morning everyone. This is Rahul from IIFL Capital. I welcome you all to the third-quarter earnings conference call of KIMS Hospitals. From KIMS, we have with us today Dr. Bhaskar Rao Bollineni, Founder and Managing Director, Dr. Abhinay Bollineni, Executive Director and CEO, Mr. Sachin Salvi, CFO, Dr. Nitesh Shetty, CEO for KIMS Bangalore Cluster, and Mr. Srinath Reddy, Director, Business Strategy, and M&A. Over to you, sir, for your opening comments.
Good morning to all of you. A hearty and warm welcome to all of you. This happens to be the first meeting in the new year, and I take this opportunity to extend greetings for a healthy and happy year ahead for all of you. Last week, the Union Budget was presented, which is a quiet budget devoid of any frills or fanfare, but conveys a clear resolve for fiscal consolidation. The health sector received a 7% hike over the previous year, with a major push to mental health and making cancer and rare disease treatment more affordable. Primary focus was given to creating a skilled healthcare workforce to cater to the growing disease burden. That way, the hospitals will get more skilled people in the newcoming areas. Overall, it is a good budget, though it would have been better with increased allocations to the healthcare sector.
Now, let us move to financials and operation results for quarter three, 2025-2026. I'm happy to share that this is a record-breaking quarter, with the highest ever revenue crossing the INR 1,000 crore mark. Though Q3 is traditionally a weak quarter, I would say that we have raced fast, with growing results despite the usual initial pressures associated with new units because of our new inherent strength and enhanced network. Q3 FY 2026 highlights: total revenue of INR 1,003 crore, a growth of 29.2% on year-on-year and 3.9% on quarter-on-quarter basis. The EBITDA of INR 204 crore, a marginal decline of 0.4% on year-on-year and 2% on a quarter-on-quarter basis. The decline in EBITDA was mainly on account of EBITDA erosion caused by the newer units that commenced operations over the last nine to 12 months. EBITDA margins stood at 20.4% versus 25.9% in quarter 3, 2025, and 21.6% in Q2 FY 2026.
PAT at INR 52 crore in Q3 FY 2026 against INR 93 crore and INR 72 crore in Q3 FY 2025 and Q2 FY 2026, respectively. A consolidated EPS for Q3 FY 2026 of INR 1.3, a decline of 39.9% on year-on-year basis, and 20.1% quarter-on-quarter, respectively. Cash and cash equivalents include cash, bank balance, deposits with maturity less than 12 months, and investments in mutual funds at INR 206 crore as on December 31st, 2025. Q3 FY 2026, financial highlights: consolidated. Consolidated revenue from operations INR 998 crore, a growth of 29.2% on year-on-year and 3.9% on quarter-on-quarter basis. Consolidated EBITDA pre-Ind AS INR 193 crore, a decline of 2.2% on year-on-year and of 3.7% on quarter-on-quarter basis. Consolidated EBITDA pre-Ind AS and excluding other income of INR 188 crore, a growth of 4.6% and a decline of 4.3% on year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter basis, respectively. Operational highlights: consolidated Q3 financial year 26 highlights.
Average revenue per operating bed grew by 20.5% and 10.3% on year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter basis, respectively. Average revenue per patient grew by 13.9% and 9% on year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter basis, respectively. IP volume 61,139 grew by 13.2% year-on-year and declined 4.9% quarter-on-quarter basis. OP volumes 585,499, an increase of 24.5% year-on-year and a decline of 1.2% quarter-on-quarter. Other developments: KIMS entered into an agreement with Andhra Mahila Sabha for its land to construct and operate a hospital at Chennai for 26 years. The construction is expected to be completed within two years. At KIMS Mahadevapura, Bangalore, 25 transplants were performed just within three months it started functioning. At Thane, 100+ life-saving pediatric cardiac procedures were done within the first five months. It's a great achievement for the new unit.
We organized an event on the occasion of World Cancer Day, February 4th , where a good number of cancer conquerors, their families, and doctors participated. The chief guest was Padma Vibhushan awardee and famous cinema actor Shri Sarathkumar. I don't intend to burden you with an endless list of our clinical achievements. The point of note is that excellent medical care and latest technology is now available at Tier 2 and Tier 3 centers wherever KIMS is there. Even organ transplants are taking place at these small towns, which was unheard of before. There have been a galore of accomplishments during the year 2025. I will give brief highlights. We now have 25 hospitals across five states. In 2025, we launched seven hospitals: Bangalore, Mahadevapura, and Electronic City; two in Guntur, Kollam in Kerala; Thane, and Sangli in Maharashtra.
100 lung transplants were done in 2025 under the leadership of Dr. Sandeep Attawar and his team. Over 430 liver renal transplants across the group, led by Dr. Uma Maheswa Rao and Satya Reddy and his team. Over 120 liver transplants across the group done in this year under the leadership of Dr. Venkat Gopal and Sachin Daga and Chandan and other group team members. Over 100 organ donations are achieved by impressing the patient attenders to donate their kith and kin for their body so that at least 800 people got benefited out of this. Entire credit goes to our coordinator, Mangadevi, and Mr. Advik. Over 500 robotic surgeries done across and over 100 robotic Whipple surgeries done, which is a great achievement by KIMS Secunderabad. KIMS Ushalakshmi Breast Unit got two Guinness Book of World Records for largest breast cancer awareness program.
Launch of India's first TULSA-PRO for prostate cancer care treatment without operations. Launch of India's second magnetic resonance-guided focused ultrasound for tremor treatment, which is very, very successful. Launch of South India's first Gamma Knife for brain tumors for metastasis and other things. Finally, I would like to say that the new units have started stabilizing, and real growth on their part can be seen from the coming financial year. We have more expansion in the offering, and I will be able to let you know in the next quarter. Thank you for your continued trust and support. I conclude now, wishing you and your families the best of everything in the new year. Rahul.
Should we begin with the question-and-answer session now?
Please.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press * and 1 on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press * and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Ameya from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for taking my question. So first question is on the newer assets. Is it possible for the management to provide the occupancy number for Thane as well as two Bangalore assets, and also the trajectory for the EBITDA losses for these 3 units in the coming quarters, especially for quarter four and FY 2027? Thank you so much.
Yeah, it may be difficult to give you specific details on occupancy of each of the assets because all three assets are growing. But I think between Thane and Mahadevapura in Bangalore, towards the end of Q1, next financial year, we should become EBITDA positive or EBITDA neutral. Electronic City might take a little longer because we commissioned it only in the month of December. So I think by the end of Q3, Electronic City also should turn EBITDA neutral or positive.
Sure. For Bangalore, particularly on the Karnataka cluster, the RPOPs are upwards of 76,000 for this quarter. Should we consider some normalization in these RPOPs because this is just the first few quarters of the hospitals getting started, or do you think these RPOPs are maintainable going ahead?
Srinath, you want to take that?
Okay. So I think you should probably discount it a little because we have done a significant amount of transplant work in this quarter. Since the hospital is new, the base is still low. We should probably think of it similar to what it is in the Telangana cluster, around 70,000-75,000 RPOPs.
Yeah. To add to Dr. Abhinay, see, these are initial periods, but we strongly believe that these trends should more or less continue. There could be some small rationalization, but the trends should continue.
Sure. And the second question I have on the Andhra and Telangana cluster, the IP volumes growth has been for Telangana, it's in low single digit, and for, I believe, Andhra, it is declined. Despite bed addition and only operating at 50% kind of occupancy, is there anything to read into this? You expect the performance to improve?
Well, I think if you look at Telangana growth, it has been on a year-on-year basis, it's been 20% on a quarter-on-quarter last year, same quarter. On the volume growth also from last year, first nine months or last year to the first nine months of this year, there has been a 5% growth in volume. And revenue has grown higher. But at a mature cluster, to grow at 5% is healthy enough. As far as Andhra, in quarter three, we had a strike with the state government, so we had not taken an Aarogyasri scheme for almost a month. And that's why you see a significant dip in volume. But otherwise, January, things have bounced back, and the revenues are as per how it was in Q2.
Telangana, what optimal occupancy should we assume going ahead at annual?
Telangana, we should get to 75%-80%. There are little constraints in Telangana because some beds we have now shut down because of renovation. Once those beds come into operational, which will happen end of next year, that should contribute to growth. And the new Kondapur facility, the Kondapur facility today is probably running at 90%-95% occupancy. It should get commissioned in the next three-four months. Once that gets commissioned, there will be more volume growth in the Telangana cluster.
Sure. Thank you so much. I will join that. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Damyanti from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good morning, and thank you for the opportunity. My question is on Maharashtra cluster units. So first, for both Nashik and Thane units, can you update what is the status on NABH accreditation? The second point is the discussion which you are having with the insurance empanelment, what is the date? And since last quarter, have you signed any empanelment either in Nashik or Thane? And also, just want to understand, is NABH accreditation must before you really get empanelment with all the key insurance players? Thank you.
No, NABH in Nashik, entry level is completed. NABH in Thane is in pipeline. It will still take some more time. But for both units or any other unit, NABH is not a prerequisite for impanelment with insurance company. There has been some progress in both units on insurance impanelment. But the top five companies that we wanted to do, out of which two are done, three more are to be done. We are almost in the last leg of closure on all three for both Nashik and Thane. It should be done before the end of this quarter, quarter four.
Okay. And just want to understand, I believe your discussion or negotiation with insurance companies took a little longer than what we anticipated. So any point where you really had to negotiate a lot with the insurance companies, and what are the key pushbacks coming from them before they agree for signing the deal?
I think it is we always want a better price. We want something higher than what is already being offered. They obviously want to lower the price as much as they can. That is something that's a bilateral discussion between the hospital and insurance company.
Okay. And you said of the top five insurance companies, two are already done. You have closed a contract. Is it that for Nashik unit or which?
Nashik and Thane. Both Nashik and Thane.
Okay. And then second question I had on the overall RPOP and ARPP trends, you did mention there was a component of transplant in New Bangalore unit, etc. But when we look at the trends, it seems exceptionally strong than what we had seen in the last few quarters. So is transplant only the moving factor here, or something else has changed? And how should we look at the trends in coming quarters?
Are you referring to the group RPOP?
Yes, the consolidated RPOP and ARPP numbers.
Yeah, I think Thane and Bangalore both are high RPOP markets. All three hospitals got commissioned only in the last six-nine months. So definitely, the incremental revenue that's coming in from Thane and Bangalore, the RPOP will be higher, which will pull the overall group RPOP. And Telangana, which also, if you see, Telangana was at 65,000 last quarter, has now moved to 70,000 this quarter. So there is growth in three regions: Bombay, Hyderabad, and Bangalore, all three of them being high RPOP, which is pulling the overall company up.
Okay. So maybe not at, say, a 20% level or so, but we can assume better trend than what we saw in 1Q, 2Q, or any quantitative indication will be helpful?
Difficult to quantify because these are all different states, and each state is growing differently. So I think what we are delivering today, we should be sustainably growing that.
Okay. My last question is, if I look at your Telangana cluster, I guess your growth number for revenue in the last two quarters, they were somewhere in high single digit to low double digit. So will that be the range to look forward? Or as you mentioned, there is headroom to grow better compared to what we saw in the last two quarters?
I think we've always been indicating that Telangana is a very mature market with significant bed capacity by KIMS and other hospitals. As and when we add new hospitals, we might see this high single digit move up to a double digit number. But otherwise, just having mature hospitals to grow at a double digit number from that cluster will be difficult. But this year, because we are adding Kondapur, we're adding Kompally, and subsequent years, we are adding Kurnool facility, we might see double digit growth for the next three-four years. But again, moving forward after that, it'll be difficult to deliver double digit growth only from Telangana.
Got it. My last question is actually a clarification. Did you mention for Telangana, you are looking to reach occupancy of 75%-80%? And if yes, by when?
It will eventually get there, maybe another three-four years on the current occupancy. But as we keep adding more beds, the occupancy percentage will fall down. By absolute numbers, it will consist of that.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you for your answers. I'll get back in the queue.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chirag Gupta from Allegro Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I just wanted to know the net debt position as of December 31st.
It is about 2,800. Yes. So Chirag, it is about 2,850 or so at a consolidated level as on December 31st, 2023.
Okay. Yeah. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touchtone telephone. The next question is from the line of Karan Vora from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question. My first question is an extension of previous participant's question with respect to top five insurer impanelment. Can you highlight how many of the top five have been impaneled for Kerala cluster, and what's the progress on Bangalore? I know it's early days for Bangalore, but still just getting some sense. What are the targets of reaching those top five insurer impanelment if they have not already been for Kerala?
On Kerala, I think Kannur, we are done with most of the empanelments. Kollam might take another two quarters before the top five are fully done. Bangalore should take another six-nine months before the empanelment happens.
Okay. Got it. And Kollam, how many are already on board of the top five?
Top five, none. Maybe one, I think. I'm not sure.
Okay. Okay. And Kannur, all top five are done?
Yeah.
Got it. And the second question is with respect to Bangalore. So in the previous quarters' presentations, the kind of CapEx we have given for Bangalore, it seems like these are asset-light expansions. So any rental number which you are calling out as a percentage of sales is also fine, which we might be paying to the owners of those land or properties?
I think the total rent that we have, the commitment is around INR 2.5 crore per month for both the assets put together. Half of the Mahadevapura asset is owned by the companies. The remaining half, we pay lease. Electronic City is on a revenue share model. But I think the fixed commitment is towards INR 2.5 crore a month.
Okay. Sorry, you mentioned Electronic City is half owned, right?
Correct.
Okay.
Sorry. Sorry. Mahadevapura is half owned. Electronic City is on revenue share.
Okay. Got it. And the revenue share will be over and above the INR 2.5 crore per month fixed rentals?
No, no. It is part of it.
Okay. Okay. Got it. And the last question is with respect to RPOP. So whatever RPOPs in Q3, I think for Bangalore, we've already mentioned that there could be some moderation. But for other geographies, whatever RPOP we see in Q3, should that be considered as the new base of RPOP?
Yeah. For Karnataka and Maharashtra, we should still give it more time before it stabilizes. But other clusters, yeah, you should more or less take that as RPOP.
Okay. Got it. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kunal Randeria from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good morning. Sorry, it's on your payer mix. So your Aarogyasri contribution has gone down. Obviously, that is because incremental revenues are largely coming out of and outside of Telangana market. So as we expand in other states, are you also getting impaneled for those state schemes?
No, we only are impaneling state schemes in Andhra, not in other states.
Okay. It's only in Andhra. Okay. So your institutional bed contribution as well as revenue contribution should keep coming down over the years.
Correct. From state government schemes.
Sure. Sure. That's very helpful. Secondly, again, on RPOP, I'm not sure if it's covered earlier or not. But in the last couple of quarters, Andhra cluster has seen very sharp RPOP as well as ARPP growth. But there has been some moderation as far as the volumes are concerned, IP volume. So just want to understand what is happening over here.
No, even volume growths are growing very healthy. It's just that last quarter, we had a strike with the state government on Aarogyasri payment because of which, almost for 45 days, 45, 60 days, we had a then one month, Aarogyasri was completely banned in all hospitals. And 15 days before and 15 days later, it took time for us to scale down and ramp up. So that disruption caused us a decline in volume. But otherwise, we don't see any issue in volume growth or revenue growth in Andhra.
Got it. And the reason for ARPP or RPOP growth, I mean, is the case mix changing very heavily, or is it just the payer mix? No, even the case mix is some hospitals, we have started on-call services like in Ongole.
In Vizag, we have started on-call services. Transplant is picking up in a big way in Andhra. So it's a little bit of everything: case mix, pricing, and the payer mix.
Sure. Sure. And just one more, if I can. So I noticed this time around in the presentation, there is no slide on expansion plans. So should I presume that what was there last time, it is the same thing?
Yeah, you should assume the same thing. We have no new hospitals in addition to what we have already announced.
Right, sir. Right, sir. So Chennai is the only one that you would have announced. So other than that, there's nothing much coming. Perfect. Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touch-tone telephone. The next question is from the line of Anshul Agarwal from MK Global. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. A few clarifications. In the net debt number that you have mentioned, does that include all the payments made to our partners for bringing down the minority stake to 9%?
So yes. It is a net debt position as on December 31st, 2025. It includes all the debts which we have raised for the expansion. For minority, we do not get any. We have not raised any debt. But of course, it is out of the internal sources. So to fund the internal sources, you have to raise some working capital requirement.
That's exactly what I wanted to understand. There are no payments due to get that minority stake to 9% which have not already been paid?
Yes.
Perfect. Second question, sir, that I had was, is there any update on the new units that were going to be commissioned in AP? I thought in the last slide, I think we mentioned Ongole was supposed to get 50 incremental beds added in Q3, which in the AP cluster doesn't seem to have shown up. And Anantapur is expected to be commissioned in the current quarter. Could you help us with an update on these two units?
Ongole 50 beds got commissioned. That's what I just mentioned a week ago. Anantapur, towards the end of March, we should commission the cancer center and add an incremental 75 beds off the 250 beds that we are supposed to add. Rajahmundry, we are again slated towards the end of Q4. Kondapur, through end of Q1, we are slated to start. And Kompalli also, from March, we will start commissioning the hospitals.
Got it. Very clear. Also, just wanted to check, there's a dip in occupancy and profitability in the Kerala cluster. I understand seasonal trends, etc. But given that we are in the ramp-up phase in these two hospitals, any particular reason to call out for this dip in occupancy and profitability in the Kerala cluster?
In one of the hospitals at Kerala, both the hospitals are doing extremely well. In one of the hospitals, we had some one-time expenditure which we had to write off in the last quarter. But otherwise, both hospitals are doing extremely well. Kannur is ramping up quite well. In fact, December, January have been even more promising than the results of Q3. Kollam, yeah, is just six-seven months old. It should break even in the next one-two quarters.
Got it. Just one last question from my end. In the previous phone calls, we had mentioned that Anantapur, because of the ramp-up, we are seeing at least on a monthly rented basis, expectation is around break-even somewhere in the month of January. Are the trends suggesting the same, or should we wait for end of Q1 2027 for Anantapur to break-even?
So trends are suggesting that towards the end of Q4, we should break-even. But just to be on the safer side, we have also indicated end of Q1. But right now, things are going quite positive. There are some incremental costs that we are incurring on a month-on-month basis. But it's going better than planned.
Got it. Just one last question, if I can squeeze in. For the Bangalore cluster, is Q3 an apt indicator for the overall costs for both hospitals, or are there certain costs that you would think would sort of crop up in Q3 within the Electronic City hospital? Or is it a full quarter of costs that have come up in the Bangalore cluster in the current quarter?
Yeah, I can answer that. See, Electronic City, the cost, what you are seeing is only for one month, right, because we just started in the month of December. But for the Mahadevapura unit, it's the full cost. Yeah. Year-on-year, there could be some minor increase in overall costs to the extent of 7%-8%. But having said that, most of the costs have been factored in. Electronic City per se, the cost what you see is just one month.
Great. Thank you so much.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touch-tone telephone. The next question is from the line of Rahul Jeewani from IIFL Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Dr. Abhinay, you indicated about Telangana being a mature market and a competitive market. But if we look at our occupancies, our occupancies are still, let's say, for first nine months on an operating bed basis, hovering somewhere around 50%-53%. So with the scope which we have in terms of driving occupancy improvement, shouldn't our IP volume growth be slightly faster within the Telangana cluster? Because first nine months, the IP volume growth has been only, let's say, low to mid-single digits. So just your thoughts in terms of how you see these dynamics playing out with respect to occupancies in Telangana and the potential for IP volume growth?
See, Rahul, if you actually look at the Telangana occupancy, so occupied beds divided by the operational beds, correct?
Sure.
These are around 50%-55%. Sorry, 52%.5%. Now, in this secondary bed, we are renovating almost 200-250 beds which will only get commissioned in the next financial year. So actually, on the beds that are available, we are running at 80%-85% occupancy. It's just that those beds, it shows in the census beds, but they are under renovation. So that is one reason why we are not able to show more volume growth in the secondary bed facility. As well as Kondapur is concerned, it is already running at 95%-100% occupancy. And we are losing patients because of space constraints. Once we move to the new facility, there will be significant volume growth in that hospital. Sunshine are the other two assets, and they have been growing consistently on a year-on-year basis.
Since the bed capacity is spread over four facilities, Sunshine has been growing on a healthy basis, on a year-on-year basis, even on volumes. These two facilities where there is more growth potential, we are limited with bed capacity which should get sorted by one next quarter and one maybe in the next 18 months.
Okay. Sure, sir. Sure, Dr. Abhinay. So basically, Secunderabad and Kondapur. So when these 200 beds which we are renovating at Secunderabad, when would they come online?
Towards the end of next year.
So by end of FY?
Second half of next financial.
You mean FY 2027?
Correct.
Sure, Dr. Abhinay. And with respect to the new units, your presentation talks about the fact that the doctor onboarding at the Thane hospital is 90% over. So can you also talk about in terms of, let's say, the doctor onboarding for the two Bangalore hospitals in terms of where are we in terms of our targets for doctor additions in these two hospitals?
Yeah. Let Nitish also take that.
Yeah, Rahul. Yeah, Rahul, most of the onboarding of the doctors in all specialties has been done in both the hospitals. Probably very few people might be added in the future as the volume grows. But at this moment of time, consider all quaternary case specialties, tertiary case specialties; all doctors are on board. We are close to 200 doctors in two hospitals already on board.
Sure, Dr. Nitish. So 200 doctors?
Hello?
Sorry. Rahul, go ahead.
Yeah. So I was saying 200 doctors you have combined across both the hospitals as of now?
Yeah, that's right. And close to 120 in Mahadevapura and another 90 doctors in the Electronic City unit.
Okay. And so far the first Bangalore hospital, Mahadevapura, now the costs or let's say the losses should keep coming down. But for Electronic City, given that we only had one month of contribution, maybe for Electronic City, we might still see an increase in loss going into fourth quarter.
No increase in the losses because December month, January month, January has come down. As the revenue ramps up, which we are confident of, the losses only should come down because all the doctors, all the costs, fixed costs have already been done. So it's all a matter of the revenue ramping up. And the revenue ramp-up in Electronic City has been good. And we are confident that the losses only will come down and eventually lead to the break-even. Like indicated by Dr. Abhinay, we are targeting somewhere in the second quarter of the financial year, 2027.
Sure, sure, sure. And Dr. Abhinay, you talked about Thane and Mahadevapura achieving break-even in 1Q and Electronic City in third quarter of fiscal 2027. So just to clarify, you mean break-even for the quarter or let's say break-even on an exit run rate basis in these quarters?
You're saying towards the end of the quarter, we will break even for that quarter.
Okay. You will break-even for the quarter. So Thane and Mahadevapura by 1Q FY 2027 and Electronic City by 3Q FY 2027, break-even for the quarter.
Correct. Correct.
Sure, sure, Dr. Abhinay.
So, Rahul, what we are indicating when we say doctor onboarding is completed, the doctor onboarding is a continuous process even in mature hospitals like in Telangana and Andhra. So what we have completed is for phase one of growth, which is the first 24 months of growth. We will keep adding more doctors for more growth in the future because all these hospitals are large-format hospitals. We have more than 300 beds in each location. So it will be an onboarding process before we onboard doctors. And that's why cost keeps going up. Sometimes in between, we find good doctors. We take them, then the cost goes up. Break-even might get delayed here and there a little. But as long as the revenue is growing and the losses are diminishing, it's in the right direction.
Sure. Given that all these three hospitals are growing, can you also talk about in terms of the operationalization plan for incremental beds at these three hospitals?
I think we have now enough capacity first to break-even. Our focus is to prioritize break-even in all of these hospitals. We have enough capacity operationalized in all of these hospitals. All the CapEx for all three hospitals are fully done. There is no incremental CapEx that we'll have to incur for more beds up to each of their capacities. It's about adding more manpower, which is not going to take more than two-three months. As and when we see the occupancy ramp-up happen and we feel there is pressure on the system to add more beds, we'll operationalize the remainder.
Sure. And last question before I join back. So now, obviously, if we look at these four hospitals, Nashik, Thane, and the two Bangalore ones, maybe in Thane and the two Bangalore hospitals, we have seen a very good traction in terms of revenue ramp-up. But Nashik, let's say, still continues to be slightly behind in terms of ramp-up. So do you think that maybe a better strategy is to have or add hospitals largely in tier one markets where, let's say, ramp-up is relatively faster, easier as compared to, let's say, some of these tier two, tier three markets like Nashik? And if you can also talk about where, let's say, Nashik hasn't gone according to our plans. Thank you.
So Nashik, yes, it took us 13 months to achieve break-even. And in January, we are EBITDA positive in Nashik, Rahul. We have achieved almost INR 8.5 crore revenue, and we turned EBITDA positive. We got empanelment of CGHS, sorry, ECHS in Nashik. We should start being able to take patients from next month. The only difference in tier two and a metro market is the opportunity size is the same. In fact, there is more opportunity in tier two because of lesser competition. The ability to consolidate work there is much easier and much easier. But the only challenge is because the payer profile in tier two markets, you have a mix of cash, insurance, and corporate. Insurance and corporate, because they take time and it's a very price-sensitive market, that is why the delayed ramp-up.
But otherwise, fundamentally, we don't see any issue in Thane or Bangalore because these two are very high-cash-paying markets. Even though insurance empowerments are getting delayed, they are getting substituted by cash business, which may not be the case in smaller towns like Nashik. But now, last month, break-even at the 13th month of operations has given more positive feedback in the entire system. Now, with the empowerment of corporates such as CGHS and ECHS in the next few months, we don't see any fundamental challenge in the growth story of Nashik. It was a little slow, likewise in Nagpur. But overall, things in Nagpur have turned around significantly well in 24, 36 months. So Nashik, we don't see any we have similar confidence levels for Nashik too.
Sure, Dr. Abhinay. So with respect to the ramp-up which we have seen on ONCO and transplants in these other three hospitals and the fact that for the Nashik market, obviously, we cannot do ONCO. So has that also been a reason why Nashik has seen a slightly slower ramp-up as compared to these other three hospitals?
No, I wouldn't say that because even in Thane, we have not done any transplant work here. It's just that even in the broad specialties, we have just because of delayed empowerments from insurance, which is almost 30% of the business and being a price-sensitive market. And the remaining 30% of the business there is from public sector companies. And only 25%-30% of the business is from cash. And with only one payer to scale up in tier two markets is a challenge, like in the case with Andhra and all our hospitals in Andhra. So if you actually look at just the cash-to-cash business of KIMS in Nashik today versus the other competition in Nashik, we're probably the largest in terms of cash as a payer in that market already in less than 12-13 months.
Okay. Sure. Understood. I will join back with you. Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touch-tone telephone. The next question is from the line of Alankar Garude from Kotak. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good morning, everyone. So on a like-for-like basis, how would you compare your tariffs in Mahadevapura and Electronic City with other similar hospitals in those respective micro markets?
Yeah. So between Electronic City and Mahadevapura, internally, there is no change in the pricing. Both offer same pricing. With respect to competition, we are slightly priced, at least I would say that around 15% lower in the initial days. We may rationalize it in the coming few months. But yes, we will be slightly, at least for some more time, we'll be slightly lower compared to competition.
Got it, sir. The second question was, can you take us through your thought process behind entering Chennai? Which are the leading factors that drove this decision? And maybe a second question there would be, are you open to looking at further expansion in Tamil Nadu?
So like we earlier mentioned, we have always felt there is a lot of micro markets within these larger cities which are underserved. Like in Bangalore, like in Bombay, we felt there were many micro markets underserved. And very clearly, with the way things are ramping up, the thought process of these being underserved has turned out to be true. Likewise, in Chennai, we feel there are at least two, three micro markets visibly underserved today. We want to focus on being able to start new hospitals there and attract talent. And again, strategically, a lot of patients from Andhra go to Tamil Nadu for treatment. A lot of the people in Tamil Nadu, at least 20% of the population there are Telugu-speaking. The brand is well established. Among the doctor community, there is a strong goodwill.
And even now with Bangalore and Thane's success, that goodwill is even getting stronger because even outside the core markets, we've been able to do quite well. So given the size and the opportunity for consolidating one more state, that's the reason why we looked at Chennai. Earlier, we looked at Chennai, but we didn't get the right land parcel. Now that we got a very good land parcel, we said, "Let's start the story in Chennai." And that's the only missing link in consolidating South India. So with Andhra, Telangana having such strong leadership position, now with Karnataka, Bangalore, both hospitals doing well and adding more facilities, Kerala doing well and adding more facilities, the only missing link in the South story would be Tamil Nadu. And that's why we thought it makes logical sense for us to enter that market.
So does it mean, Dr. Abhinay, that apart from possibly looking at more expansion in Chennai, you would also be open to Tamil Nadu, the other cities in Tamil Nadu, or would it be just Chennai for the next few years?
I think we are pretty open. We are not closing our mind on the other cities of Tamil Nadu. At this point in time, we have not looked at anything. We are only focusing on Chennai as a market.
Got it. And similarly, if you can comment about Karnataka state as well, we have two in Bangalore with more in the works. Any plans of looking at other markets in Karnataka?
Nothing. I think at this point in time, we have enough on the table for Bangalore. We want to do a few more hospitals in Bangalore. We have a land which is already part of the company. We want to start work on that hospital too. We feel we can add more bed capacity in Bangalore. The kind of doctor traction we've got with these two facilities, we're pretty confident that with more facilities and more micro markets being underserved, we should be adding more capacity here and expanding this. After that, then we could probably potentially look at other tier two markets in Karnataka.
Got it. One final question from my side. In the past, you have also spoken about adding more hospitals in Mumbai. Can you share any update on your plans for Mumbai City?
Mumbai City, we are still exploring all the opportunities that are coming our way. Nothing concrete at this point in time. But like we said, overall, we believe there's a large footprint that we can create in Bombay City. We are working towards achieving that over a period of time. But for the next 12 months, I think our focus is to first ensure all the hospitals that we've commissioned, and we are going to commission in this financial year, to ensure that they all break even and there is no drag on the system.
Got it. So basically, any expansion plans, if at all, in Mumbai are unlikely to be finalized, at least for the next 12 months?
I wouldn't say that. But yeah, we're definitely exploring opportunities. As in when something good comes up, we might take it up to minimum. But our priority is on commissioning the current I mean, operationalizing and commissioning the current hospital.
Fair enough. That's helpful. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. The next question is from the line of Rahul Jeewani from IIFL Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Sir, now, let's say a large part of our current expansion is nearing completion. So the only large one which we have is Kondapur, which should get commissioned. So how do you see your overall debt now trending from a next one-two year perspective? Has the debt number peaked out?
Yeah. I think for the current expansion, the debt numbers have peaked out. If we add more new facilities, then it could potentially go up. But for now, we're almost done with most of the CapEx that we planned for three years ago.
Okay. Sure, Dr. Abhinay. Given that you said focus over from, let's say, a next one-year perspective is to scale up these existing new hospitals, that would mean that debt should moderate unless and until we don't announce anything large in any of the new markets.
Correct. Unless we don't announce anything large, I think debt should moderate.
Okay. And are we looking for something, let's say, a largest kind of an opportunity in any of the other markets apart from, let's say, a Mumbai market? And what, let's say, excites you still about Mumbai?
I think the way Thane has ramped up in the kind of confidence we're getting in Bombay, it's a pretty underserved market. And I don't see why we shouldn't consolidate and add more capacity. There is enough opportunity for two, three players to coexist in Bombay as a market. So I think opportunity is quite large. And we are waiting for us to do well in the first few hospitals: Nagpur, Thane, Nashik. Anyways, we're doing extremely well. But Thane also is ramping up well. Nashik, we're pretty confident with the way things are moving. So I think overall, Maharashtra being able to consolidate over the long run is a good opportunity beyond south.
Sure, Dr. Abhinay. Let's say these opportunities which you might be evaluating in Mumbai, would these be asset-heavy or asset-light expansions for you?
I think our preference has largely been to own land and building, Rahul. So I think it will take into account owning the land and building. Doing an asset-light model may be challenging in a city like Bangalore than sorry, in Bombay, the rental cost will be significantly higher. It'll be difficult for us to absorb that cost. But if we are referring to the opportunity in Ghatkopar, that's not true. We're not doing any hospital in Ghatkopar at this point in time.
Okay. Apart from, let's say, the organic expansion, any potential M&A opportunities in any of the markets which might where you might be interested in?
Nothing sizable. There are a couple of small acquisitions, potential acquisitions that have come our way, but nothing significant and sizable at this point in time.
Okay. Sure, Dr. Abhinay. Thanks for answering my questions.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Alankar from Kotak. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the follow-up. Just one question on Kondapur. You said you are operating at 90%-95% occupancy. Now, with this new hospital coming up, how should we assume a ramp-up of it? And what would be the plans for the existing hospital once the new building is up and running?
In six months, once the new building is ready, we will either shut down the old hospital. I think 20%-25% year-on-year growth at the new Kondapur facility is something that we are extremely confident about.
In terms of cost, would there be duplication of cost for six months? I mean, how should we look at the EBITDA for both the hospitals combined, say, over the next year or so?
There will be some duplication of cost. Like when we transition from the old Sunshine to the new facility, there has been some duplication. That will continue to be there in Kondapur also for three-four months before we fully shut down the old facility.
Got it. And any sense on the monthly fixed cost at the new facility?
It'll only be incremental. We are moving one of our old facilities into a new facility. So obviously, a lot of new doctors will come in, a lot of new incremental staff to service those patient volumes will come in. So it'll probably be higher by around 25% from the current fixed cost, 25%-30%. It also depends on when the new doctor teams are onboarding and stuff.
Got it. But given that it's expected to be operationalized soon, I mean, we would already be in that process, right, of arranging?
Correct. But it's a very large facility. It's an 850-bedded hospital. And the current facility is only 250 beds. So our onboarding will happen in phases. It will not happen on day one.
Okay. Okay. Okay. So significantly higher beds, but just 25% higher cost, as you mentioned. Got it. Yeah. That's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vedant Nilekar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi. Am I audible?
Yep. You're audible.
Thank you for this opportunity. I just had one question on the CapEx front. Now that most of our expansion is done and whatever further bed capacities that we are going to add, what is our expected CapEx figure for FY 2027 and 2028?
Sorry. CapEx for 2027 and 2028. 2027, the full closure on CapEx will be another incremental INR 500-INR 600 crore. And for 2028, we have not yet put a plan together because there's no new hospitals that we're commissioning in that year. It'll just be maintenance CapEx of the existing.
Okay. Got it. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Yeah. Very good afternoon. We have done a lot of knowledge by asking your questions. Let me clarify certain things beyond what all, in addition to what Sachin, Abhinay, and Srinath and Nitesh clarified. The debt portion is, even though we have 2,800, we are supposed to get nearly INR 600 crore from our creditors from mostly the state and central government, which are sent for the payment. But because of the lack of money there, that will definitely come. As I mentioned, we have already INR 200 crore cash as of now with us. So with these things, I think moving forward, we may not see any incremental debt will be there on the books, and it will start coming down quarter-over-quarter.
If there are any new opportunities, expansions which we are having, that we will be able to look into the other means of funds, not through debt. That's one. As far as the doctors onboard is concerned, initially, we started few specialties, and it's an ongoing process of expansion of the new facilities even in the old facilities like Nellore and other places. We are adding new specialties. When we add new specialties, then the doctors keep boarding. That will give an incremental revenue instantaneously because these are all the already existing facilities. There will not be a requirement of any CapEx. And these are all the things which we are doing for the growth so that the growth we can expect in all the hospitals. There is a potential in every hospital that needs to add a little more of new specialties.
As one of the calls I said about a year back, that in three years, we will be able to double our top line, which we are on the better than what I promised. Whatever the things that we do, it will always be for the benefit of the investors. And also, we consider the many of you have been worried about the debt ratios. We are very, very keen and confident that we will do good. And in the next few years, we expect better growth than the last two years. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you. On behalf of IIFL Capital Services Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line. Thank you.