Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Mahanagar Gas Limited Q1 FY 2026 earnings conference call, hosted by Emkay Global Financial Services Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this call is being recorded. With this, I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sabri Hazarika. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah, thanks. On behalf of Emkay Global Financial Services, I welcome you all to the Q1 FY 2026 post-earnings conference call of Mahanagar Gas Limited. We have with us the top management of the company led by Mr. Ashu Shinghal, Managing Director, Mr. Sanjay Shende, Deputy Managing Director, Mr. Rajesh Patel, Chief Financial Officer, and Mr. Rajesh Wagle, Senior Vice President, Marketing.
Today's session will be a brief on the results, followed by a question and answer round. Before we begin, I would like to mention that some of the statements made in today's discussion may be forward-looking in nature, and we believe that expectations contained in the statements are reasonable. However, these statements involve a number of risks and uncertainties that may lead to different results. We urge you to consider that quarterly numbers are not a reflection of long-term trends or indication of full-year results. With that said, I will now hand over the call to management. Over to you, sir.
A very good afternoon to you all, and I welcome on behalf of MGL Management to the earnings call of Mahanagar Gas for the first quarter for the financial year 2025/2026. I would like to thank you all for attending the call today. MGL continues to create CGD infrastructure across its business segments in the licensed area. During this quarter, 16,348 domestic households were connected, and thus we have established connectivity for nearly 2.85 million households. We have also laid 79.08 km of steel and PE pipeline, taking the total length to over 7,538.63 km. We have 385 stations as of 30th June. We also have added 84 industrial and commercial customers during this quarter, and therefore, as of 30th June, we have 5,161 industrial and commercial customers in total.
During this quarter, there is an addition of 20,332 CNG vehicles, and now we have more than 1.1 million CNG vehicles registered in our geographies. With respect to Unison Enviro Private Limited, a wholly-owned subsidiary, the company has added four CNG stations during this quarter, and with this, it has 86 stations as of 30th June. The company has added 3,338 domestic households and has established connectivity for nearly 42,338 households and added one industrial customer during this quarter. Thus, we have 63 industrial and commercial customers as of 30th June. UEPL has laid 73.78 km of steel and PE pipeline, taking the total length to 435.56 km. There was an addition of 3,939 CNG vehicles in the UEPL area during this quarter, and with this, now UEPL has nearly 57,537 CNG vehicles registered in its geographies as of 30th June.
Coming to MGL's operation, overall average gas sales of Q1 for the current financial year compared to the corresponding quarter of the previous year has increased to 4.229 MMSCMD from 3.858, which is an increase of 9.61%. Compared to Q1 of the current year to the corresponding Q1 of the previous year, sales volume in case of CNG has increased 2.77 MMSCMD, which is an increase of 7.54%. Sales volume for the domestic PNG has increased 0.569 MMSCMD from 0.547 MMSCMD, which is an increase of 3.88%.
In the case of industrial and commercial sales, commercial sales volume has increased to MMSCMD from 0.539 MMSCMD, which is an increase of 26.09%. During this quarter, we achieved overall average sales of 4.229, as again 4.194 MMSCMD in the previous quarter, which is an increase of 0.85%. The current quarter volume consists of CNG volume of 2.981, domestic volume of 0.569, while 0.679 MMSCMD of gas has been supplied to industrial and commercial segments.
EBITDA from operations for the quarter is INR 485 crore as compared to previous quarter EBITDA of INR 378 crore, which is an increase of 28%. EBITDA excluding one-time trade margin reversal is INR 370 crore and INR 315 crore for the current quarter and Q4 of the previous year, respectively. Net profit after tax for the quarter is INR 324 crore as compared to previous quarter net profit after tax of INR 252 crore, which is an increase of 29%. Coming back to UEPL operations, during the quarter, the company has achieved an overall average sales volume of 0.225 MMSCMD, as against 0.208 in the previous quarter, which is an increase of 8.55%.
Current quarter volume consists of CNG volume of 0.204 and PNG volume of 0.021 MMSCMD. Compared to the previous quarter, sales volume in case of CNG has increased to MMSCMD from 0.189 MMSCMD, which is an increase of 7.94%. For the quarter ended this 30th June, MGL as a consolidated entity has achieved total gas volume sale of 4.455 MMSCMD. A scheme of amalgamation of UEPL with MGL was filed with NCLT on December 24th. The NCLT has approved the scheme of amalgamation and pronounced a final order on 9th July, with February 1st, 2024, as the appointed date of amalgamation.
The scheme will become effective upon filing of the certified copy of NCLT order with the ROC, Maharashtra. MGL has entered into an MOU with BMC for setting up a CBG plant in Mumbai. During this quarter, the government of Maharashtra has approved the leasing of land to MGL at Deonar, Mumbai for setting this plant. With this, I conclude and would now like to open the floor for questions. Thank you very much for your patience.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from the line of Probal Sen from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity, sir. Congrats on a strong set of numbers. Two questions. One was that in this quarter, what was the sort of APM net allocation that we saw, excluding new well gas? What is the exact percentage that we got for our priority segments, number one? Second question was this amalgamation scheme now that it has been approved, when can we sort of tentatively expect the full consolidated numbers to be available or rather be reported by MGL? And third, if you can give us some color on the CapEx for the next couple of years, including on the CBG as well as on the battery venture and on our core business. Those are my three questions, sir. Thanks.
Thank you, Probal. First question was with respect to APM. APM this quarter domestic is 100%, as you are aware. As far as CNG is concerned, 37% of the total CNG volume were catered through APM gas. Okay. Does that answer your first question?
Yeah, sir, just if I can have a small follow-up, how much was then the new well gas that we got in this quarter for CNG?
New Well Gas was roughly 500,000.
Understood. Right, sir. Right, sir. And the next couple of questions?
Yeah. With respect to UEPL, after this pronouncement, the signed copy will be received by us in maybe one or two days now, okay? And within 30 days of that receipt of the copy, both these companies are supposed to file with ROC, the Registrar of Companies, within 30 days. And within that, I think seven, eight days, the final order should come. Okay. So in our view, everything should get over by 15th of August, and you will see quarter two as a single entity for MGL and UEPL. Okay?
Understood.
Yeah. Coming to company level, MGL core business CapEx, along with UEPL, we should be incurring anywhere in the range of 1,100-1,300 for next two years, at least. Okay? Coming to IBC, the first phase cost is roughly INR 850 crores odd. Of that, roughly INR 350 crores will be contributed by MGL, INR 350 crores-INR 380 crores. Okay? That is the range for the 40% stake in that company. And this should happen gradually. Maybe majority of that should at least the first phase is going to get completed by around June next year, April to June next year. So at least 50% or more will go in the first phase. And maybe in the next six months, balance will go. Okay? So we expect from here around 18 months' time, in a phased manner, that outflow will happen. We have already paid INR 35 crore-INR 36 crore. Balance 300 or a little more than 300 will be there in the next one and a half years' time. Okay?
Right.
As far as CBG is concerned, the overall project cost is in the range of INR 600 crore-INR 650 crore. Okay? This was an assessment some time back. We may have to reassess the cost. But as far as investment by MGL is concerned, since there is a JV partner and there is going to be funding through debt and equity both, equity from MGL side should be in the range of around INR 130 crore. Okay?
Perfect, sir. Thank you so much. I'll come back if I have more questions. Thank you so much and all the best.
Thank you.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Yogesh Patil from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Thanks for taking my question, sir. Sir, let me continue with the Probal question. If you could provide the detailed breakup of gas sourcing in MMSCMD unit from each source like APM, NWG, HPHT, Henry Hub, and any other we are taking it from the spot or IGX, that would be really helpful. You have already mentioned 0.5 MMSCMD NWG. Apart from that, if you could provide.
So roughly 1.69 was APM. That is domestic as well as CNG both. Okay? 500,000 is HPHT. A little less than 500,000 is NWG. Okay? Henry Hub, we have contract of around 1.45, but we consumed a little less because NWG was available. So we might have consumed this quarter around 1.15. Okay? And though we say we bought spot, but it was all HPHT through IGX. Okay? Which was also again in the range of around 0.4.
Okay. So sir, despite of sharp decline in Henry Hub prices and the crude link prices during the Q1 versus the Q4 FY 2025, your cost of gas per unit has remained flat. Is it because of APM deallocation during the quarter, or is there any reason?
See, average APM received in the Q4 was around 47%. Against that, APM received in this Q1 is around 37%. Okay? And that 10% reduction has been replaced by NWG and other gases. So more or less, the increase in the cost due to reduction in APM and reduction in rates of other gases has compensated, and roughly cost of gas per molecule on a weighted average basis has remained same. Your observation is correct.
Sir, our operating expenses per unit during the quarter was INR 6.6 per SCM. So generally, we remain in the range of INR 6.1-INR 6.2, except fourth quarter. So is there any higher expenses during the quarter which is one-off kind of expenses and which lead to INR 6.6 per SCM in this quarter?
There is not much one-off, but let's say compared to last year, this year Q1, we have done a little bit more on CSR. So you will see that little lesser in the subsequent quarters. Whereas last year, the CSR expenses were back-ended slightly. So that is one. Other than that, I don't think any major expenses are booked. Maybe slight increases there compared to earlier quarters. Yeah. Repair maintenance and some amount of lease rent has increased on account of some new plots which are taken by us. And also, there was some past period demand for some lease rent in the range of few crores.
Which is a one-off item.
One-off item, which is one-off item.
Sir, if you could share the total CNG vehicle additions during the quarter compared to the last quarter Q4 FY 2025, that would be helpful. And lastly, also, if you could throw some light on the seven-member committee report draft, when we can expect any timeline from your side?
The vehicle addition was around 20,300 in Q1 against Q4 of 27,000 addition last year Q4. Coming to that Bombay High Court committee, it is, I mean, more or less several meetings have taken place. We are still waiting for some fine-tuning of the draft recommendations and some more data is required. We expect within a few weeks, the final recommendation from our side will be ready, which we will be submitting to the court.
Thanks a lot, sir, and best of luck.
Thank you. And then the next question comes from the line of Yash Nandwani from IIFL Capital. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is on the slowdown in the CNG volume growth. We have seen about 10% growth or even higher in the last few quarters. This quarter, it has a little bit slowed down to 7.5%. So is it just because of the early monsoon, or is there any other reason?
It's very difficult to pinpoint exactly whatever reasons, because we typically don't have data at that level of granularity. But if you look at trends, our BEST volumes have been going down, then in Q1, the number of new vehicles sold is also down. Probably the media reports say that the cost of new vehicles because of.
Sorry to interrupt, sir, but I think the voice is echoing.
Is it still echoing?
Yes, sir.
Is this better?
No, sir. It is still echoing.
Your voice is also echoing.
Just a second, sir.
There's some problem from their end also.
Sir, can you speak once again?
Can you hear me?
Yes, sir.
I can hear you, sir, loud and clear.
No echo, I hope.
It is clear, sir.
Okay. The second part was there has been a slowdown in new vehicle additions in this quarter, primarily because of there has been a significant increase in the price of new cars. Typically, we used to have about 15,000 odd cars, private vehicles and cabs, which used to come on to CNG every quarter. That has gone down by about 5,000-6,000 . So these are the two reasons. Early monsoons could have an impact on it, but.
Sorry to interrupt, sir, but the echoing is from the line of the participant. I request you to mute your line after asking the question.
Okay.
Okay. Yeah. Now it is better. Apart from these, I mean, we have not been able to really pin down any very, very concrete reasons for the slowdown. Ups and downs keep happening as long as the trend is towards an increasing side. It's very difficult to ascribe reasons to, and it may vary. Some quarters may see a better result, and maybe some monsoon effect could be there, because this year monsoon has arrived slightly earlier as compared to maybe last year, and still, we have got around 7.5% Q1 of last year versus Q1 of this year, so yes, you are right. Not 10%, but at least growth numbers are there, and we expect that going forward in next three quarters, we will take some steps to ensure that some growth does happen.
Sir, my second question is basically on continuing question on the gas allocation. Sir, what is the APM and NWG gas allocation currently for second quarter, and how it is expected to be third quarter since it is expected that you will receive the allocation two quarters in advance now?
That intimation, actually, you can mute your mic, Yash, because sometimes it is getting echoed here. The intimation, although it is there mentioned six months in advance, but some fine-tune does happen 15 days or one month in advance. As of now, we have around 37% APM and around 16% new well gas. We expect adjustment happening not to a very great extent, because already last six months, we have seen several adjustments which have happened.
We don't expect much reduction as of now, but we don't know really, because our experience in last seven, eight months has been that there has been a lot of variation in allocation, sometimes going up and down. Please be rest assured that since the LNG volumes also we have marked with term contracts, as well as new well gas is getting allocated, the crude is low.
HPHT gas is also coming on for sale. We are well covered, and we think going forward, the trend is that LNG prices will be softened, and therefore we expect to manage lower allocation of APM also. Just to reiterate that APM allocation for domestic is 100% available. This trend is expected to continue like this for a long time, because whatever gas is coming is giving first priority to domestic PNG. CNG, the government believes that it can absorb a higher gas price, and MGL as an entity has better margins as compared to some of our peers, as well as we have CNG prices which are lower. Those levers are available with us, and we can do some price adjustment depending on volume growth and our expectations on margins. I hope that answers your question.
Yes, sir. Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
From the volumes bit, historically, we have always given guidance on a long-term CAGR kind of a basis. And we have typically maintained that quarter- on- quarter, or it is not necessarily that target will be hit every quarter or something like that. So these ups and downs are there, but the volume guidance is always slightly longer-term directional.
And as per past trend also, Q1 slightly remains lower, maybe because of school vacations, a lot of buses do not operate. That could be one of the reasons. And if you look at the number of vehicles added in last Q1, more or less, it is in the same range as 20,000 +. Of course, compared to Q1, it is lower. I mean, Q4, it is lower. Yeah. Move on to the next.
The next question comes from the line of Amit Murarka from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. So on UEPL, I think you had earlier mentioned that there will be some amounts of depreciation and tax losses which would be available once the merger is done. Could you quantify how much that would be?
See, we won't be able to give you the quantum, but what I'm saying is, or what I have mentioned earlier also is, today, as an independent entity, whatever capital expenditure being done by UEPL does not get tax benefit because they have cumulative losses yet to be absorbed. Okay? But once it is a single entity, all the capital expenditure will become eligible for depreciation because as a single entity, it's a profit-making entity.
And there will be some tax benefits on account of merger, definitely. So these are the two aspects on which there will be tax benefits. Okay? So it's mainly timing difference. Let's say individual CapEx of UEPL, which would have got tax benefit after maybe two to three years, since it is part of MGL now, or it will be part of MGL now, it will be faster. Okay?
Understood. Understood. Also, on the CapEx and network expansion, what is the target of CNG station addition this year? And yeah, I had a follow-up to that as well, but what is the target this year?
Last year, we have added 66 stations, 46, 40.
36 and 30.
Sorry. Maybe around 40 from MGL and 26 from Unison. But this year, we target around 80 new stations to be added.
Sure. Also, there's a trend of declining throughput per station, actually, if you see. Obviously, I mean, there's times that. So I just wanted to, in that context, understand, in your understanding, how much time does it take for a station to fully mature and reach optimal levels of volume?
Look, typically, a good chunk of these new stations are coming up in the daughter booster mode because in far-flung areas of GA2 and GA3, our pipelines have not yet reached. The typical throughput of a daughter booster station is much lower than the throughput of an online station. So if the ratio of daughter boosters to online is higher, the overall throughput decreases. But whenever we open even a new daughter booster station, that reaches its plateau volumes pretty quickly in about two, three months.
Okay. Okay. So the declining throughput is largely, you're saying, because of the increase in ratio of daughter booster to online?
Yes, yes.
Sure. I'll come back.
Since we add number of stations like last year, 66, so it takes some time for those geographies to actually people start taking vehicles or moving, seeing the queuing problem also. It takes some time. As Rajesh mentioned, maybe a few months it will take to come up to the earlier levels.
Got it. And lastly, just you had also spoken about a deal wherein you have the tie-up with BEST for filling up and adding commercial vehicles there. So is that tie-up fully rolled out, or you are in the process of doing that?
We are targeting 15 stations. Last month, we were at two. About two months back, we were at two. Now six more have got added. The remaining five, six, I think, will be added by the end of this month or August.
Sure. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Varatharajan from Antique Limited. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, on the mix of volume in Zone 1 and Zone 2 transportation, so if you have a number, please share.
See, as far as MGL is concerned, Zone 1 should be around 68%-70%, and Zone 2 is around 30%-32%.
HPHT will be completely Zone 2?
Sorry?
HPHT will be completely Zone 2?
No, HPHT, part of it is Zone 2. Maybe out of four contracts, we have one contract in Zone 2, rest of the contracts are in. No, you are correct. I think HPHT, everything is Zone 2. You are right. All is from KG Basins. KG Basin and gas will be Zone 2.
Zone two. Yeah.
Fair enough, sir. My second question was on the CapEx side. If you can do some kind of a breakdown to indicate how much is going where. For example, you're adding 80 outlets, so maybe broadly costs INR 3 crores or INR 4 crores per outlet. And then where is the drain effectively going? So how much of pipeline you are planning, and what are the other expenses which you would be doing? And if that can be also broken up between Mumbai GA1, GA2, GA3, and other than that, like any Unison?
See, at a company level, I'll give you the breakup. Mostly, as you are right, if I'm putting 80 stations, somewhere in the range of I'm talking now UEPL as well as MGL both, it should be around INR 300-INR 350 crores. Depending on other than equipment, if I'm able to take either land on outright purchase basis or on long lease basis, okay, it can range between INR 300 crores -INR 350 crores. Okay? Then another INR 250 crores-INR 300 crores will go mainly into steel trunk line. Majority of that will be, of course, in UEPL area also, and also in GA3, where we are still putting up trunk line. Very small part could be in GA1 for maybe supply security or looping of area, etc. Some part of steel still will be there in GA2 as well, okay, because some of the municipalities we are laying trunk lines in GA2.
The rest is all further branching out, reaching out to customer or medium pressure lines post these steel trunk lines. So if you take 300 CNG-350 CNG, another 250-300 is purely steel line, and maybe balance is medium pressure line, last mile connectivity, connecting industrial, commercial customers, etc. Some part could be there for other CapEx like INR 50 crores-INR 100 crores, okay, which may include adding small offices in different region for CRM and ONM purposes, and some IT and other CapEx, which could be in the range of INR 50 crores-INR 100 crores out of INR 1,200 crore or INR 1,300 crores CapEx.
Thanks, sir. That's very useful. Thanks, sir. I'll come back in the queue .
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Maulik Patel from Equirius. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Just one thing on that GV which you made for the sales side. You mentioned that the total investment from your side will be close to around INR 360 crores, right?
INR 375 crores, yeah.
INR 375 crore. We will be holding around 40%-45% stake, correct?
40%. 44% is current holding, but that is for a temporary period. Ultimately, it will come to 40% will be ours, and 60% will be IBC.
Okay. So you will not be doing just from an accounting perspective, you will just add the associated profit in your P&L, right, whenever you have a plant in the company?
Yes. Yes. It will be only profit pickup from that.
Yeah. Profit pickup from that now. Okay. Got it. Got it. And second is on particularly that you mentioned that volume, which after many, many quarters, the volume growth, why which has come down to 7.5%. Has the current month of July been spending a similar line, or it has been relatively improved than what you had in Q1?
Why, numbers actually are just... give me five, 10 minutes. I'll get back to you.
Sure. Okay. That's all. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Nitin Tiwari from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good evening. Thanks for the opportunity. Just staying on the volume bit. So what's our current guidance for volume growth for FY 2026 and 2027 as a whole, and also our guidance for our margins? And I also wanted to understand the margin perspective from the recent tariff reforms that PNGRB has notified, which perhaps would lead to, I mean, the applicability of Zone 1 tariff for CNG. So how do we see that impacting our margins, and if you can share some guidance on that?
Q1 volume has been slightly low, as has been evident. But if you see Q1 volume overall of last financial year versus this financial year, it is still a 9.6% growth. So for this financial year, although we have said that nearing double digit or high single digit volume growth is expected, which we expect, again, high single digit numbers should be there by the end of this financial year. Regarding that margins, although EBITDA per SCM for this quarter has been around INR 12.6, but going forward, last quarter has been INR 10. This 12.6 also includes some trade margin, which is a single point entry. So without that, it is around INR 10. So we expect around INR 9 or so, INR 9.5 or so by the year-end, the margins number.
Regarding the tariff, it will be around INR 60 paisa-INR 70 paisa per kg CNG impact, but we will see when it is implemented and what are the final numbers for both the zones. And some of it, if required, we can pass on to the customer. Again, it all will be depending on alternate fuel cost and overall margins on our balance sheet.
Just to add to this, as I said earlier, my current purchase mix is 68%-70% in Zone 1. Okay? And 30%-32% is in Zone 2. Okay? Now, the manner in which this PNGRB zone-wise tariff is implemented, though we don't know the rate, for all priority purchase, it will be Zone 1 rate, correct? And if you look at MGL total volume out of this 84%-85% is priority volume. So there will be some increase, but the Zone 2 tariff which we are paying, maybe in the range of 32% or so, should come 50% of that will again be falling in Zone 1 because my 15% is the only volume which is in INC. Okay? So there will be some saving on account of Zone 2 getting classified in Zone 1 because of the priority volume. Also some volume because of the rate increase, there could be an impact.
Got it, sir. And so second question is around our LNG business, and also you had indicated in our last meeting that there are two large stations being planned on the Mumbai port of JNPT, I suppose. So what is the status of those two stations?
These stations are being done through Mahanagar LNG Limited , MLPL, and we have one station operating from MGL side, and one Aurangabad station is operating since last October. One more has become ready in Madhya Pradesh in a place called Seoni, and three more stations we are expecting this year to be added, three or four, so one will be in Bhiwandi, one will be in JNPT, and one will be in Amravati, and one more we are exploring in Maharashtra, so by the year-end, we expect around in total, MGL including, maybe six or seven stations will be there.
Understood, sir. And what is the status of two large CNG stations that you are planning?
Yeah. That is also underway, and there was some delay because of some permissions from some of the state authorities. But we are expecting it to. We have put it on fast track. In another seven, eight months, we expect to commission one in Sion, that is in Wadala. The other one will be also commissioned in a few months' time.
Seven, eight months you mentioned, sir, right?
Yeah. Seven, eight months.
Understood, sir. Thanks for answering my questions. I'll get back in.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Somaiah from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks. I hope I'm audible. So the first question is on the renewable gas mix. So this 0.5 MMSCMD is roughly around 15%-16%. So is this the max that we can get, or is it because our portfolio, we already have HPHT and Henry Hub, so 15% is something that we have opted for?
Ideally, I think any reduction in APM should get replaced by NWG because it is basically reclassification of the gas produced from the same well. Unless there is a production going down at the well, whatever is a cut in APM should get replaced by NWG. Okay? So there is no clear-cut guidelines how much NWG will be available. So I'm not able to very confidently say how much it will be going forward. Because in the past few months, you have seen the manner in which APM cut and NWG replacement has happened. Okay? I don't think any linkage is done with HPHT because HPHT we are independently bidding and getting the gas. Ideally, APM and NWG should be considered based on the production from the old fields.
Got it. So at 16%, whatever is the allocation, we have got it completely. It's not because of our portfolio mix we have taken into account.
No, no. I don't think so there is any dependence on that. No. New Well Gas, whatever is getting reclassified as from APM to New Well Gas, again, New Well Gas is given on priority to CGD only.
Got it.
Today also, APM plus new well gas, I'm getting around 2.3 overall, 2.3 MMSCMD.
1.7 + 0.6.
Correct. Correct. 0.5. 2.2. I'm sorry. 2.2.
Yeah. Sir, also on this marketing program that we do on the commercial vehicle side, so this 2.0, I think it's supposed to I mean, where are we on that? I just want to understand.
Yeah. The marketing scheme was closed on 31st March. Q1, we didn't run the scheme. Q1 is typically a slow quarter for commercial vehicle sales, etc. But we are.
We plan to do it this year?
At an appropriate time, we'll reinitiate the schemes. We are also exploring some bulk customers. In case we get some bulk customers, we will do it on B2B type of a deal with customers to see that more fleet of heavy commercial vehicles are added. Yeah. So we are looking at large fleet operators, transporters, etc., and trying to work out bulk deals with some of them. So in regards to the previous question on CNG sales trends in July, the volume is marginally higher than Q1, not appreciably higher, but marginally higher. Directionally, it is more than the volume of Q1. This is just for the first couple of weeks of July for the data as available.
Okay. Sir, the BEST volume decline, if you could just quantify that on a YoY basis, what would have been the impact?
Last year, at around this time, we were selling about 125,000 kgs per day. That is down to about 98,000 kgs per day.
Understood, sir. So one last question on the CapEx. So you did mention INR 1,100 crores at a core business level. So including the equity investments, so it's roughly around INR 1,300 crores, INR 1,300 crore-INR 1,350 crore per year, including both the other investments.
Yes. You are right because 1,100 or 1,200 does not include the diversification or the new company investments.
Got it. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question comes from the line of S. Ramesh from Nirmal Bang. Please go ahead.
Good evening and thank you very much. So if you were to look at the UEPL performance this quarter, can you just take us through the revenue, EBITDA, and PAT? And how do you see the UEPL volumes perform over FY 2026, 2027 based on the CapEx you are doing and the growth in the infrastructure?
EBITDA in the current quarter is around INR 16 crores. Okay? There is a marginal decrease compared to previous quarter, which was around INR 17 crores in absolute value terms, right?
Yeah.
Volumes presently, they are 0.021 MMSCMD. Sorry. That is only for CNG. And another for PNG is around 0.02. So roughly 0.225 MMSCMD is the overall volume on a quarterly average basis. We expect that growth should be in the range of 30% every year, this year, maybe in next two to three years.
Are they making profits after tax or you're still losing money there?
No, no. It is making profit after tax.
Last year, it has made profit after tax of around INR 21 crores.
And Mr. Ramesh, that includes the interest cost, which is actually an income for MGL also.
Okay. So on the.
It is definitely profit-making.
So in terms of the CapEx you are doing, including UEPL, you're talking about INR 1,100 crore-INR 1,200 crore. So if you look at the ballpark ROC expectation, when do you think you will be able to achieve the normalized ROC on the incremental CapEx you are doing in the next two years? Can we assume that it will start happening by FY 2028 once the assets stabilize in your gas sourcing and the volume growth stabilizes, or will it take, say, another three years? So when do you think there will be visibility on the cash flows and the ROC on the incremental CapEx?
I think it should take three to four years from here.
Okay. Fair enough. So one last thought. Now, if you're looking at the long-term cash flows and the CapEx, when do you think you will achieve the growth CapEx and when would you move towards normalized maintenance CapEx? And what would be the normalized maintenance CapEx to evaluate the long-term cash flows and values that form on a DCF model? Because your CapEx leads to a back-end returns, so you'll possibly have a good idea in terms of when you think that you'll achieve steady state. So can you give us some sense in terms of what will be the steady state CapEx and when do you think you'll achieve that?
If we look at existing MGL business, maybe for trunk line, etc., maybe it may take another three to four years, not beyond that. And then whatever remains could be very marginal, this. Okay? And even on account of CNG stations required to cater to the population or making a scenario where you move in and move out of the station very fast, it should not be more than four to five years putting up new stations and adding. And they are also mainly in GA3 and GA2. Okay? So our CapEx for MGL existing GAs should taper down within four to five years, and then only last-mile connectivity for customers who get added. Okay?
So even if I'm running at 3 lakh connections per year, and we have already reached out to almost 2.7 million households, considering 4 million, that also, I think, takes another four or five years max in my view. Okay? When it comes to UEPL, I think the CapEx cycle should be for another seven years at least, six, seven years minimum. But that will be a smaller this. Maybe initially a few years, 150 - 200, and then it should taper down to below 100 for the next four or five years.
So one last thought on yeah. Sorry. Please go ahead.
As far as if you see, we don't segregate on DCF this, but CNG business should have a replacement CapEx a little earlier. When I say a little earlier, around 15-18 years, mainly the equipment, I'm saying. But the rest of the CapEx, it's pretty long, minimum 25 years and beyond it is. Okay? Of course, repairing some of the assets which are above ground, like say risers or meters, etc., which may need replacement again 15-18 years' time. Okay? So majority of CapEx lasts very long. As for PNGRB, at least, I think 25 years is the authorization period. Beyond that, it should last. But we don't have history in India. Globally, I think there are examples where 40-60 years also PE lines and steel lines in the range of 40 years should be there.
That's useful. So can you give us some color on the GA3 volumes this quarter and what is the kind of growth you expect? And what is the kind of CapEx required in GA3 in the next one or two years?
GA3 volumes presently are 0.2245. Current quarter GA3 volume, I think 0.324, not 244, 324.
Okay, and how do you see the growth in the FY 2026, 2027?
FY 2026, 2027, I think it should grow at least 15%-20%.
Probably a bit more, maybe around the same as UEPL, 30% or so.
Okay. And what is the CapEx required in GA3 specifically? And also on the shifting from daughter booster to online stations, when do you think that will happen?
Shifting from daughter booster to online is a slightly long process because we have to lay long pipelines to reach all the places. But what we are also doing is we are adding three more city gate stations. So one will be added in this month only to Sion, and two more will be added in a few months' time, maybe seven, eight, nine months, or in a year's time or so. So that will ease out our daughter booster stations will be gradually converted to online stations.
But at the same time, we are adding more stations every year in this geography. So there will be definitely more DBS also will be coming on. And maybe in two, three years' time, the things will get normalized. Then it will be mostly online, and some will still be operating on DBS because everywhere we will not be able to lay the pipeline to make every station online.
Is it possible to give a breakup of the CapEx?
Sorry. May I request you to join the queue for a quick follow-up question?
No problem. Thank you. Yeah.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Mr. Arya Patel. Please go ahead.
Hello. Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. I just had one question. So what was the average realization for industrial and commercial customers in Q1 as well as the average realization in FY 2025 and quarter four FY 2025?
Industrial and commercial average realization without tax around INR 50. Okay? And it is slightly lower, maybe around 5% lower linked to Brent compared to last quarter. The INR 50 is the average for the last year. Okay? And this quarter, it is slightly lower, 5% lower.
Got it. Thank you, sir. And what was Q4? Sorry.
Specifically for Q4 also was in the same range, INR 50 average realization, which ranges some segment more than INR 60, some segment near INR 50 or a little less than INR 50. Mainly commercial LPG bottle linked segment is earning higher, and the LDO-FO linked customers between INR 45 -INR 50 range.
Got it. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Sagar Kapadia from Prabhudas Lilladher. Please go ahead.
Hello. Hello. Sir, can you hear me?
Yeah.
Yes, sir. You're audible.
Yeah. Sir, recently, we had read in news that MSRTC is going to procure more of these hybrid CNG LNG buses. So I wanted to know, since earlier we used to give figures how much conversions have been made from the MSRTC buses. And also, I would like to know in our geographical area how many bus depots of MSRTC are there and what are the plans of MGL, how many CNG stations can be established in those bus depots?
Currently, around 600 buses of MSRTC are running, and they had added some more buses last few months. However, there is some potential because as they are having a fleet of around 18,000 buses, but that is all across Maharashtra. And they are, I mean, having both the options. They are also exploring LNG option and CNG option. So we are in touch with them. Some more MSRTC stations we are adding gradually. As of now, maybe how many are operating?
Around 12 or so are operating right now, 10 or 12.
Going forward, some more will be getting added?
Going forward, they will be informing us as regards which depots they'll be deploying these buses. Mainly, they'll be in the Raigad district, GA3, a few in GA2, and we will upgrade or add infrastructure as required to fuel those buses.
Okay, so that can compensate for the lesser volume of the BEST, which is declining?
Yes, yes, yes. To some extent, yes. But BEST, we were operating around 3,000 buses at one point of time. Now it has come down to 1,800 buses. So yes, you are right. MSRTC will pick up, I mean, compensate for some. But we are also in touch with BEST. Let us see if something gets materialized there also.
Okay. So we said we are operating 600 buses on CNG, right?
That's correct.
From the MSRTC side currently?
Yeah.
Okay. So that number can improve if they go for the option of CNG?
There will be a mix. I mean, it's not that only on CNG. There will be a mix of both CNG, LNG, and diesel.
Yeah. Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. A request to all participants, please limit your questions to one question per participant. The next question comes from the line of Keshav from Kotak. Please go ahead.
Hello. Good evening, sir. Sir, can you please give us GA1 volume breakup and the YoY growth rate?
Around 50% is from GA1. Around 0.3% was GA3. Balance is GA2, maybe around 45% or so.
Total volume for this quarter is around 4.23. GA1 is 1.9. GA2 is 2 million, and 0.33 is GA3.
Thank you. And sir, can you also help us with YoY growth rate of this volume?
So if you compare Q4 average FY 2024, there is slightly degrowth in GA1. But GA2 has grown from 1.85 to 2. And GA3 has grown from 0.24 to 0.33.
Thank you so much, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Hardik Solanki from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. My question is already answered. Thank you.
There is one question by Mr. Ramesh regarding GA3 CapEx. GA3 CapEx planned for this year, 2025, 2026 in the range of INR 200 crore.
The next question comes from the line of S. Ramesh from Nirmal Bang. Please go ahead.
Hello. Yeah. As a follow-up to the question, sir, if you look at your overall business now in terms of the gas sourcing and the price increase required, what is the additional price increase required to improve margins? And when do you think you'll be able to do that? And if you see gas prices remaining stable at these levels, do you see the operating leverage and volume growth helping you improve your EBITDA growth and earnings growth, say, over the next few quarters?
Sir, Ramesh, if I exclude the one-time reversal of trade margin from both the quarters, this quarter as well as the previous quarter, my Q4 EBITDA was 8.35 per SCM, and my Q1 this year EBITDA is 9.68, to be very precise, so actually, there is a growth in EBITDA margin, okay? And that also, I'm saying, will improve because slightly Brent in the Q1 was slightly lower, so realization in industrial commercial compared to previous quarter or previous average was lower by 5%-6%. We expect that if the Brent remains on an average better than Q1, then that will also add somewhat, and gas cost, I'm seeing on the softer side, so right now, I think on margin front, we need not do anything unless there is some change in the input gas cost or any other factors like foreign exchange or allocation.
Tariff also.
And tariff, zone-wise tariff.
So as mentioned earlier also, Mr. Ramesh, that we are having, I mean, good margin on EBITDA also. I mean, earlier, if you used to track our margins, they were in the range of INR 7 also. So now we are in the range of INR 9.5. Secondly, we are still selling CNG at a lower price as compared to many of our peers. So therefore, we have some margins available there also to pass on the price in case it is required. Also, it depends how petrol diesel prices fare and what is the movement of Brent and the procurement of all the cost for LNG also. So all this is a, I mean, dynamic situation. So we keep a track on these parameters to take a decision on price hike or price reduction in CNG. The other segments are more or less every month we do the price declaration.
That's useful, sir. Thanks a lot and wish you all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take this as the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
I would like to thank once again all the investors for putting faith on the Mahanagar Gas and wish you all the best. Thank you so much for joining in.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Emkay Global Financial Services Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.