Q3 19/20

Feb 12, 2020

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the InfoEdge Q3 FY 'nineteen-'twenty Results Conference Call. Joining us on the call today are Mr. Hitesh Uburuay, Managing Director and CEO Mr. Chetan Thakkar, CFO and Mr. Sanjeev Pichandani, Vice Chairman. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in a listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Hitesh Obaroy. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to our third quarter FY 'nineteen-'twenty results conference call. Like in the past, we will start with the overall financials and then cover each business in more detail, followed by Q and A. As you would recall, we briefed you about the application of Ind AS116 to our financials in our last quarter results call. For the sake of comparison with our last year financials, we would also be calling out the respective numbers without adjusting for Ind AS impact in this call. The audited financial statements filed and other schedules on segmental billing, revenues, etcetera, along with the data sheet have been uploaded on our website, infos.in. Moving on to the stand alone financials. Billings in Q3 were INR299.5 crores, up 10.3% year on year. Revenue in Q3 was INR320.5 crores, up 14% year on year. Operating expenses, excluding depreciation for the quarter, were INR214.6 crores, up 8.5% year on year. And operating expenses readjusted for Ind AS116 stood at INR221.3 crores, up 11.9% year on year. Operating EBITDA stood at INR105.9 crores versus INR83.3 crore last year, an increase of 27.2% year on year. And operating EBITDA readjusted for AS116 stood at INR99.2 crores, up 19% year on year. And operating EBITDA margins for the quarter stood at 33%. Operating EBITDA readjusted for INT AS116 margins stood at 31%. Cash EBITDA for the quarter was INR85 crores, up 8% year on year. Deferred sales revenue stood at INR457 crores as of December 3139 versus INR404.5 crores as of December 3138, a growth of 13% year on year. The cash balance in IEIL and all its 100% subsidiaries stands at INR $15.14 crores as of December 3139. This was INR $18.69 crores as of December 3138. The slowing economy has had an impact on our business growth across different verticals, especially Niagara and Nokri. As stated in our earlier call, we continue to invest behind product, tech, brand and data science inside the organization. We also continue to invest behind our strategy of building our Jeevan Sathi brand as is reflected in the high marketing spend in this vertical. And we also continue to invest aggressively in adjacent businesses and marketplaces. Moving on to the consolidated financial highlights. At the consolidated level, the net sales of the company stood at INR335.06 crores versus INR290 crores from in December 2018. For the consolidated entity, at the PAT level, there is a loss of INR 62.12 crores versus a gain of INR $3.30 crores in the corresponding quarter of December 2018. Adjusted for exceptional items, PAT stood at a loss of INR 62 crores in quarter ended December versus a loss of INR 93.11 crores in the corresponding quarter last year. Now let's move on to the Recruitment segment. In Q3 'nineteen-'twenty, recruitment segment billing were INR210 crores, up 8.5% year on year, while revenues were INR230.3 crores, a growth of 13.1% year on year. Operating EBITDA stood at INR134.1 crores, up 20.4 from last year. Margins were at 58.3% versus 54.7% in Q3 of FY 'nineteen. EBITDA readjusted for Ind AS 116 stood at INR130.8 crores at a margin of 56.8%. Cash EBITDA for the recruitment segment during the quarter stood at INR113.8 crores, up 10.2% year on year. In Nokri, in our last quarter call, we have shared our concerns about several sort of sectors in the non IT market slowing down, sectors like auto, manufacturing, real estate and BPSI. This continued in Q3 as well, and we actually saw the slowdown spreading to other sector IT sectors like FMCG, travel and retailing as well. So in Q2, the key drivers on Okri's growth, the IT and ITS segment was unaffected by the current slowdown, and that helped us. But we are now witnessing a slight slowdown in our IT and ITS business as well, which is about 40% of our total revenue. And this impacted growth in Q3. However, on the job seeker side, on the user front and on engagement on the platform, we continue to do well. We saw strong metrics during the quarter. We had about 12,000 new CVs being added to the platform on a daily basis. The number of MOREs went up to 390,000 a day, and we had more than 5,000,000 active postings on the platform. We reduced our marketing spend in Q3 given the tight sort of market. We spent INR 6 crores as against INR 10.5 crores last year in Q3. Even in Q4, we don't see our marketing spend going up significantly. SimilarWeb, in the month of December, has updated their app estimation methodology, and this change in estimation has been applied retrospectively from June 2017 onwards. For SimilarWeb, they have done this to improve reliability of their app data, and their app data is now at least 10% more accurate versus previous estimation where the app was underrepresented. This change has impacted our app timeshare for both NOCRI and ninety nine Incur. In the case of NOCRI, the timeshare trend has remained the same over last year. However, the pace has changed from 64% to 94%. IIM Jaws, which is a business we acquired a few quarters back, reported a billing of INR 4.87 crores for Q3 of 'nineteen-'twenty. This is a growth of only 10% from 2019. The business operated at a breakeven level during the quarter. Going forward, we have decided that the Nokri sales team will also sell Iron Jocs products to its customers. Let's move to the other verticals now. In 99 Acres, which is our real estate verticals, billings in Q3 grew 10.9% year on year to INR 54.3 crores, while revenue grew 15.3 to INR 58.2 crores. EBITDA for the quarter stood at 1.7 crores. EBITDA adjusted for India at INR 116.9% at a nominal loss of INR 0.2 crores against a loss of INR 3.2 crores reported in Q3 of last year. Cash loss of 99 acres during the quarter stood at INR2.9 crores against a cash loss of INR3.8 crores last year. Overall, collections in 99 acres grew 11% in Q3, while expenses grew around 5%. All business verticals of new home, resale and rental registered growth. Resale and rental grew faster than new homes in Q3 on a smaller base. Number of clients continued to show a healthy growth in both the builder and the roofer segment. The average relief per client, however, saw some pressure in new home clients. Some of our builder clients continue to face pressure due to the twin factors of lack of liquidity stroke financing triggered by NBFC's own funding goals and tepid and end unit sales in new homes. While nobody can say precisely when the market will sort of bounce back, we feel it may we survive before it recovers. Live listings on the platform continue to increase and cross the 1,000,000 mark for the first time. Both broker and owner listings grew sequentially quarter on quarter. We continue to invest and focus on improving the platform experience in the business and drive more inquiry generation and repeat usage from our customers. Moving on to the Matrimony business. In Operating EBITDA loss for Jivansati stood at INR 19.1 crores in Q3 FY 'twenty, up from a loss of INR 15.2 crores in Q3 of last year. EBITDA readjusted for Ind AS one hundred sixteen stood at a loss of INR 19.9 crores. The cash cost for Givensati for the quarter during the quarter stood at INR 18.5 crores. Most of this additional sort of loss was on account of higher marketing spend in the category, which helped us gain share. Moving on to the education vertical. In Shiksha, in Q3, billings grew by 11.4 year on year to INR 13.3 crores, while revenue grew 15.8% year on year to INR 10.7 crores. We made an EBITDA loss of INR 1.7 crores in Q3. EBITDA adjusted for India at INR 116 stood at a loss of INR 2.2 crores versus a loss of INR 2.5 crores in Q3 of 'nineteen. Cash profit for the quarter stood at INR 73 lakhs. We continue to sort of put more efforts into getting more and more high quality content on the platform. Moving on to our strategic investments. Zomato announced additional funding sort of commitment from up to USD 150,000,000 from Ant Financials. They also announced the acquisition of Uber Eats. With this, Zomato is now a market leader in food delivery. Zomato continues to drive efficiency across the organization. Early signs show that the acquisition is panning out well. Losses have been on a downward trend in Tumato for the last few months now. During the quarter, we also announced the sale of our stake in Meditation for INR50 crores and return of all outstanding loans amounting to INR27.5 crores. Post signing formalities are in process. Recently, we announced the setting up of an alternate investment fund, the Indian Full Edge Venture Fund. The fund has been established with an initial commitment of INR 150 crores from INR 150 crores. We continue to invest new investment opportunities in start ups through this fund. That's all from us this evening. Thank you, and we are now ready to take any questions. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. The first question is from the line of Sachin from Perfect Research Equity Fund. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir. I have few questions listing them together. Number one, how big is the size of the opportunity for nocari.com in India? How much can be the overall market grow from here in the long term? Next one, what thought process do we have in purchasing small stakes in investing companies as even if they perform, they may not give a meaningful return in the long run due to a small stake? For example, Saipem 36% stake in Q3 Digital Media recently. And the last one, given massive increase in the addressable Internet population due to geo, do we see a massive jump in our addressable market in the future? Okay. I think the first question was what is the opportunity for North Korea in India. So it depends on how we define our market. In the segment we currently operate, which is a white collar sort of active job seeker hiring space, we already work with 80,000 companies. In the Indian market, as the economy grows, more people get hired, more companies set up shop, and our business will continue will grow with the economy. Of course, we can grow at a faster rate if we are able to help companies hire more people through us, number one. Number two, if we are able to launch new products and services and get a higher share of their wallet. And number three, if we can enter new segments or adjacent segments to the ones we operate in. We are still a very small part of the total recruitment sort of spend of companies. Nobody has the exact number. But as I said, companies spend there are, for example, 8,000 or maybe even 9,000 recruitment firms we work with, which are sort of paid by companies. There are referral programs which companies run. There are advertising campaigns they carry out. So the amount of money spent on recruitment is huge, maybe a few billion dollars a year. We are still very tiny in the entire scheme of things. So the opportunity is huge. It depends on how you define the market and what strategy we choose to follow going forward. Second question was around why do we pick up small stakes in investing companies. Rajiv, yes. Mike, so you gave the example of Q Key. So look, that specific company, we've gotten at a slightly later stage than we normally do. And therefore, the valuation is at a record place. And the issue is not how much percentage we own. The issue is how much X you will get from here and how much money are we putting in. So we are putting in about $3,500,000 okay? And another $1,000,000 is convertible in the next round valuation, dollars 1,500,000.0, right? It's a total of 5,000,000 Total 3,500,000.0 Total $3.05 And million dollars really, it's a question of where the company goes from here in terms of valuation. And if you're getting into a slightly later stage company, then you've got to do a in terms of your return expectations, do an adjustment for a lower risk. And therefore, obviously, you cannot expect the same X in a later stage company as you would in an earlier stage company. Yes? Yes. And if I'm correct, your if I remember right, your third question was around the size of the addressable market growing because Internet penetration is growing, right? You're absolutely right. As more and more people get on to the Internet and as they sort of spend more and more time on the Internet, the addressable market for many of our sort of products and services will grow. For example, already a lot of our growth in Jeevan Sathi comes from Tier two and Tier three cities. It's coming from Tier two and Tier three cities. Some of the so we are experimenting with the blue collar sort of platform. We are sort of toying with the idea of launching one at some point in time. If we were to do that, a lot of our users will be sort of people who've just got on to the Internet in the last one or two years. So of course, the fact that there are more and more people now on the Internet and they are using the you're spending more and more time on the Internet will, in the long run, sort of expand the opportunity set for our products and services. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mokul Garg from Haitong Securities. Please go ahead. Thanks for taking my question. Hitesh, just wanted to focus a bit on the Nokri business. We know that you have been talking for last few months about an overall macro slowdown kind of impacting growth. But the billing growth was weaker than I think probably what you were also expecting at the start of the quarter. Is that a correct assessment? And given that you are seeing weakness in the IT space as well, how should we look at near term billing growth? Will it stay in single digit? Or do you think this was more of an aberration? Well, the truth is I don't know. It's very hard for me to say what's going to happen going forward. What we have said on the last call is that we were taken a little bit surprised by what we saw in September. We were expecting higher growth in the quarter, but then September was slower than expected. And the last quarter also turned out to be a slow quarter. Up till Q2, IT was at least IT was holding. Last quarter, we saw IT services company also slow down their hiring. Now this may be an aberration. This may be a temporary phenomenon. IT companies may bounce back. At the end of the day, they're not indexed to the Indian economy. They're indexed to what happens to the rest of the world. But I don't know. So it's going to be what we certainly saw was that the non IT market slowed down even further in Q3. So markets like Bombay, markets like Delhi, growth was in in these markets was lower than growth in Q2 in these markets. And these are primarily non IT markets. Going forward, is the slowdown going to get worse? The ARPU is going to get better. We will only time will tell. A lot of our business sort of comes up for renewal at quarter end. So we can't even go by what we are seeing in January. We will have a better sense of what's going to happen only in a couple of months from now. Fair enough. And on the margin side, there was very material improvement in the EBITDA margin during the quarter. Do you think there is more scope to kind of squeeze cost through ad reduction if the billing growth remains weak? Or do you think you will kind of start seeing pressure on profitability if billing does not recover or revenue growth does not recover? See, we are not sludging advertising. So we saw a decrease our ad spend decreased last quarter, and that may be the case this quarter as well unless competition becomes very aggressive. However, we don't want to slow down or sort of curtail our investments in or reduce our investments in some of the newer products that we are building or the newer technologies and that we are investing behind. So that those investments will continue. And yes, if revenue growth continues to be single digit for a while, then our margins will get it, in my view. Got it. I'll get back into the queue, but just wanted to clarify the similar number, if you can just repeat the market share, including and excluding Indeed? Yes. See, what's basically happening here is that a lot of these third party sort of traffic sort of measurement companies, they basically keep tweaking their methodology. And every time they tweak their methodology, the numbers sort of if they report change dramatically. So one, I would not going forward, I would not read too much into what these guys are reporting because they sort of keep tinkering with their algorithms. Now for example, what they're reporting for NaNokri is 94% share, which until some time back was more like 65%. Now do we really believe these numbers? Frankly, I don't know. I don't know whether we should trust them anymore. Our traffic is growing. Our metrics are fine. So we don't have a problem. But it's not as if we have suddenly gained 30% share. It's just that they've changed their methodology, right? In 900 acres, our share may have declined a little bit. It's not as if we are getting hit in the market. It's just that they have changed their methodology. Now they may change their methodology again in the next six months, and we will see a different number. So I would take some of these numbers now with a pinch of salt. What basically what is happening is that a lot of the traffic is moving to the mobile devices and to the app. And many of these sort of companies don't have a very good handle on how to sort of count this traffic. And maybe this is what is leading to this these periodic revisions from time to time in their methodology. So with I mean, they claim that they get better with every change, but we don't know how far they still have to go. The next question is from the line of Aman Jain as an individual investor. Please go ahead. Aman Jain, not audible. Hello? Yes, please go to the question. My question is currently we have two businesses in our umbrella, which require good amount of management. So can you please explain why we are going and acquiring new businesses when our existing businesses need a fair amount of nurturing at this place? I'm not sure I understood the question. But what you're saying is that our existing businesses require a fair amount of attention. So why are we going and acquiring new businesses? Is that the question? Yes, please. Please. Why are jobs? Can you which business are you referring to? Because we are investing. When we invest, we don't run those verticals. We have an investment team that manages the investments. From an acquisition standpoint, we haven't really acquired many new businesses. Just acquired IIM Job sometime back, which is a small business and which there are massive synergies with the current Nokri operation on that front. So we believe that we can grow that business substantially given our distribution sort of muscle. As far as the internal businesses go, see, we have a business unit structure. We have business heads in place for all our verticals, and they are fairly seasoned sort of people. They've been around for a while. And they focus only on the business which they run and nothing else. And then my second question was regarding, like, referring to the last phone call, where you mentioned that we were funding start up in its early stage by virtue of which we used to get a substantial amount of space with a very little capital commitment. But we if we look at the last few acquisitions we have made, we are committing more capital and getting a relatively less compared to what we used to get before. So I need to know like what has what made this change? Like what changes can be attributed to? Your voice is muffled. But if I heard you correctly, what you're saying is why are we investing more money at higher valuations in start up? Yes, sir. If the valuation is higher, you're investing at so much, you will get a university. But really, the issue is you assess the business to see the stage it's at. If it's the second or third round where they're raising capital at, they're already doing about INR 60 crores, INR 80 crores of revenue, the valuation will be higher. But the risk will also be lower, right? And we take these calls. We get some right, some wrong. Hopefully, once we get right, we'll more than doubt be the ones we get wrong. And that's why it's planned out there. So that's a early change investment. So we don't believe we are overinvested. We believe we are doing fine, and we will continue on that spending. So this change can be attributed only to the like valuation side and nothing apart from that? Sorry, I didn't understand your question, sir. So this change is like mainly attributed to the valuation or like in which stage we are and nothing apart from that? So the valuation would be That makes sense. The company, the state of the company, how much revenue it's doing, is it building IP, quality of team, is it a market leader, is it getting natural direction of kind of opportunity? We look at maybe 10 or 15 or 20 things before we invest. And yes, each business will have different valuation in our estimation. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prince Podda from GM Financial. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Three questions actually. One, on the marketing spends, I see I think most of the marketing spend was decreased from Jivansathi. Still, we have seen a very strong growth in the top line of Jivansathi. Can you explain a bit what led to this growth? Well, actually, we didn't reduce spend in Riyo Vansathi. We upped our spend on Riyo by over 25% this quarter. And as a result of which, we got more profile and as a result of which, we got more revenue growth. So we decreased our spending in 99 Acres and Nokri, but upped our spending in Dvinsati this quarter last quarter. And sir, the second question is on the blue collar space where we are trying to do something. What are the challenges we are, if any, we are facing in the blue collar space? And what are we doing to kind of crack that space? Is there anything specific we have been working towards? No. No. See, we have right now it's very, very early days for us. We have just built a small product, and we will test market the product in one or two markets. And depending on that response, we'll sort of go back to the drawing board and make changes, if required. So it's very, very early days. We are looking at the blue collar sort of play as a very long term play. Maybe we'll have something sort of to report in about a year from now. Okay. That's fair. And sir, the last one, which is very critical to understanding, this creation of AIF change anything? Because we have seen in the last few weeks, there has been increase in pace of investments. So I understand that we invest mostly as the companies come to us and if we find a good opportunity. But somehow, it feels like after the creation of the AIF, the pace of investments has increased. Does that change anything, that creation of AIF? No. The pace of investment has not increased. The point is it took four, five months to float the AIF. And while that has happened, there were deals that we were talking to and keeping them warm and parking them. And the moment the AIF happened, those deals came in for investment. So it's actually a backlog of deals that have come in suddenly. It's not as the pace of investment has gone up. As far as the strategy is concerned, in the AIF, nothing really changes. We are still focused on the same sectors, same stage of deals. The AIF was done for multiple reasons. First, it infuses more disciplined rigor in in the the investing activity. It also puts some prudence and discipline in how much exposure will take in a single company. It also keeps one eye on exits as far as financial investments are concerned. It's also good from a it's more entrepreneur friendly from an Angel Tax perspective. And it helps us to attract really high quality talent in the investing activity. That's why we did And we can assume that all the investments and follow on investments will happen through this AIF going forward? So as was said earlier in the press release, that the follow on investments in the earlier companies will happen from Infowjoint subsidiaries. Infowjoint subsidiaries. Fresh companies will be invested in financial investments, not strategic, right? Financial investments will happen through the air. And the follow on rounds in that will also happen through the air. There's a separate team now for strategic investments, which is going to look at start ups and acquisitions investments in acquisitions in strategic areas, which are recruitment, real estate, matrimony and education investments. Okay. That's If I can squeeze just one more question, sir. That last quarter, we have been saying that most of the money raised in QIP was staying, and we were we had not been using that money for 99 acres. But this time around, I see a big amount of money seems to have been already used, which is about INR350 crores out of that INR750 crores. Can you just clarify what all this investment has gone into in 99 acres? I'm not sure whether you have the facts correct. I don't think there is any crores investment in 99 acres. I'm not sure if there is something around capital reduction that has happened and if you are kind of INR350 crores, if you are confusing with that. Okay. In the utilization of funds up to December 31, that referring to that. So I'm not sure if that is There is a reporting requirement that has changed and which require us to kind of present all the investment that would have happened up till date. There's a new requirement from SEBI to disclose from QRP funds what we have in this is the first time that we are disclosing that. And it's a cumulative amount that you might be referring to. Yes. That's With the five year investment that you are referring to, there's nothing that one quarter. We are just saying that's a cumulative amount for all the five quarters. And there was no such requirement earlier. So I think that's why probably Okay. Got Got it. That's all from my side. Thank you, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mokul Gulp from Haitong Securities. Please go ahead. Hey, thanks for taking my question again. Sanjay, just wanted to quickly check on the Zomato side. The I think you guys are saying that the migration from Uber Eats was quite smooth. Can you just help us what is the methodology you guys are following to measure how many people have successfully migrated and have started ordering via Zomato app? And if you can just update us on the burn rate as well. So look, burn remains where it was a couple of months ago. So it hasn't increased materially since the Uber acquisition, number one. Number two is when you say migration is successful, the company is not revealing specific numbers. However, it means that everybody or a large percentage of people who came to the Uber app and tried to use it, a large percentage of them downloaded the Zomato app and ordered, right? But the company is not revealing specific numbers on this. What I'm saying is that we are now number one in orders, and we are also more efficient. Understood. But in case of ordering on the Zometo app for Uber Eats users, you guys have some data in terms of what percentage has actually placed an order versus what how much they were kind of doing on Uber Eats? Anything you can share there? The company has not limited enough for competitive reasons. Fair enough. That was primarily what I wanted to check about. Thanks for taking my question. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Srinathvi from Bellwether Capital. Please go ahead. I just wanted to find out what would be the traffic growth in 99 acres in Nokri, if you could kind of share some percentage growth numbers? And also wanted to find out in the AIF structure, are we looking to raise outside money or and create a fund structure out of it? Or is it is the AIF going to be completely a captive operation? So let me take this AIF investment. So right now, we have the approval from SEBI, and we have kind of registered ourselves. We have, as we said that, we have kind of done the initial commitment of INR 150 crores. And as we go forward, we will look what more commitment is required. Just to kind of clarify, it's actually it does that because the AIF is a more tax efficient and in many other ways, it's a more kind of investor friendly vehicle that we have adopted it. Earlier, we used to invest through subsidiary companies. Other than that, as Sanjeev also earlier explained that in terms of the philosophy, in terms of how we operate and all that, I think it's more or less same. As we go along, we can take a call if we wish to that do we need to kind of get money from outside. But right now, we don't think that we have any intention to go out in market and raise funding for AIF. So it's just a structure change, but nothing else changes? The options are open, right? But as of now, look, let me put it this way. In the last three years, we invested close to INR800 crores from our own balance sheet or from our subsidiary balance sheets, right? We see no reason to change that pace of investment in the next three, four years going forward. Now we have no announcements to make as of now on raising capital from outside. And as of now, we've capitalized it. But as we go along, we take a course. Okay. And if you could share some traffic growth numbers percentage growth numbers for 99 Acres and Nokri, just to kind of given the slowdown, is it affecting traffic? Or is it largely only affecting piece? Just one of It's some still clarity growing both in Nigeria, ECA and Nocri, but for competitive reasons, we don't give out growth numbers year on year. Yes. You. The next question is from the line of Ashish Das from Sheikhund Limited. Please go ahead. Hi, thanks for the opportunity. So question is on 99 acres. So I can see that number of paid listing has bounced back the growth actually. So but our revenue growth has is like moderated. So could you just indicate like our realization has declined there or number of paid listing volume has not converted much? You're right. Number of listings on the platform has grown. But we saw different realizations in our new home business, which is not really a listing business, where a lot of the sort of spend is on marketing solutions on the platform. So we saw a dip in that, and that's why revenue growth is not in line with Listing growth. Okay. Can you give us some outlook on this business? Like we have seen the increase in the number of listing, but how are the markets? And how do you see in like in coming quarters? See, the market for Illustrator continues to be very, very sort of tough. We've seen a lot in this sort of space over the last few years, starting with demonetization and Dera and GST and now the NBFC crisis, which is hurting both developers and is making it harder for people to get loans and stuff. So in pockets, there is activity and there is action. But on the whole, the real estate market continues to be tight. There aren't too many buyers in the market. So new launches have taken a beating over the last few quarters. And there is some sort of movement on cleaning up inventory, old inventory. Government is trying to do a few things to ensure that projects that are stuck for a long time see the light of day. But it's a long sort of haul. At our end, we continue to focus on improving the experience of users on our platform. We're sort of investing more in our content quality. We're investing more in our reconnaissance and improving our trying to improve our user experience. We are trying to get more supply onto the platform. So we continue to work in all these areas. But it's not going to be it's going be a while before the business starts growing at a very healthy rate once again. Okay. My last question is on Juban Shathi. Like you highlighted that a lot of investments on branding side or marketing expenses has done and you have I believe you must have gained some market share because lot of listing has come on your platform. So is it sustainable? Or how is the competition you see in the Matrimony segment? So there is a lot of competition in this space. There are three players, us, Matrimony and Shati. In the North and West, we compete mostly with Shati. In the South, we don't really have a big presence. Ad spend of all the three players have gone through the roof in the last couple of years. At the same time, all of us have been discounting heavily in the market to acquire customers. So on the one hand, there is pricing pressure. And on the other hand, customer acquisition costs have gone up. We have upped our spending in this space. As a result of which, we have gained share. There are sort of the number of registrations we get on a day to day basis is up over last year. We've made inroads in certain markets where we were very weak. But if we have to continue to do well, we have to we will continue we will have to continue to invest, and we are prepared to do that. So are you doing like branding activities in the other segments where you are actually weak in the Southern and Western side? No, no. We are focused on a few markets. We are not spreading ourselves. We don't want to spread ourselves very thin. We are not very active in the South. Most of our marketing activity is in the North and Western parts of the country. The next question is from the line of Manish Bodar from Nippon India AIF. Sir, I just wanted to get a sense that the two investments namely Zomato and Polisibadar, you had done them generally at the end of the down cycle last year. And this time across, given the outlook which you're giving for Naukri, you're doing a lot of investments right now. So are you trying to insist that the downside is done and this is the right time to invest? Or how is that? Just wondering if could get your thought process as well. There is no thought there is no strategy like that. There's no thinking like nature that this is when we invest more and we invest less. We invest when we believe that it's a good company and we it's the right valuation, right team, right market, right opportunity, then we invest. And just to correct you, we invested in Polyspora in 02/2008. That was not at the end of the downside. That was actually boom time, and it was just before the Lehman crash and market was really high. We invested in Zomato in June 2010. I mean the market had tanked and was coming back a bit, but it was not as if the economy was doing well. So but the market had come back in 2010 after a very bad year in 02/2009. So actually, both were none of those were down cycles. And we don't time investments whether the market is up, market is down. We just look at in start up, we don't do that. In up, we invest behind good start ups. We have good people doing, first, good ideas and we evaluate on several criteria, and then you invest. Got it. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aditya Vadhyay from Fortune Wealth Management. Please go ahead. Yes. Good evening. I wanted to ask one question about the AIF. I just wanted to know that is this new AIF rolled up in your consolidated statements? No. So this AIF has come only in January now. So we are not talking about the December 1. So obviously, it is not included. No, no. Going forward, how will it go? So I don't know, we will look at what the accounting requirements are, and I believe that CB has also come out with some new guidelines very recently around how to go about the NAV and how to disclose it and all that. So we'll look into it. And if it is required, obviously, we'll consolidate. Okay, okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. Follow-up question from the line of Srinath from Bellwether Capital. Please go ahead. Hi. I just wanted to find out the broker contribution in 99 acres has significantly increased over the past, say, two, two point five years. So just wanted to understand what specific actions have we taken in that particular market to kind of see a significant mix change? And also, we this is as of last quarter, we have about 20,000 brokers that we build. What kind of penetration market penetration, is there any way that thing out of X number of registered brokers, we would have a 20% share, 30% share? Or is there any kind of indication on market penetration you could give on the broker side? That would be nice. So it's not as if we have gone after brokers or we have a very active program in place to get more brokers on board. We've expanded the sales team a little bit, and that helped us get more customers on the ground, more brokers on the ground. But maybe it's also the nature of the market. Maybe the market is moving towards more brokers in certain cities. Like Delhi has always been a broker heavy city, but the southern markets had very few brokers till sometime back. Maybe that's changing a little bit as time passes. The number of brokers may have gone up, but it's not as if the amount of or percentage of business you get from brokers has gone up significantly. Just as the number of brokers because of our expansion, they have gone up over the years. So sorry, what was the other question you asked? So we have listed that we have about number of customers, about 20,000 broker customers, which has actually gone up from 15,000 to 20,000. It has seen a significant growth over the last two years given the current market situation. So just wanted to understand what kind of penetration or if it's a difficult question where there's a lot of unregistered brokers and so on. But if you could give us a feel on what would be the penetration that we would have in that particular market? Very hard to say because you don't have to register to become a broker in India. So there's no data available on this. And there's a so brokerages are different from agents. So the number of brokerages or sort of firms which employ more than, let's say, X number of people in the broking business is I don't think that number is very, very large, and we have a reasonable penetration amongst in that set. But the number of people freelancing, agents, people that are working on their own, out of their own houses and doing sort of such activity is very large. And we have no way of knowing how big that market is. Even post RADAR, there is no I'm Mostly for new homes. So RADAR sort of only people who are selling channel partners who sell new homes are the ones who have to who need to register with the RADAR authority. So there are lots of brokers who do resale, rental, commercial properties, small deals here and there. There are brokers and there are sub brokers and there are agents and sub agents. So the very large number of people who are employed in the industry. The number of brokerages or sort of companies or firms which employ at least five people is not very large, and there, our penetration rates will be very high. Ladies and gentlemen, show no further questions from the participants. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Hitesh Obarai for closing comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, everyone, for being on the call, and have a great evening. Thanks. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of InfoEdge India Limited, that concludes today's conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.