Q2 19/20

Nov 12, 2019

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the InfoEdge Limited Q2 FY 'twenty Results Conference Call. Joining us on the call today are Mr. Hitesh Obraoye, Managing Director and CEO Mr. Chintan Thakkar, CFO and Mr. Sanshi Bichendani, Vice Chairman. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Hitesh Obudai. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, and a very happy Guruk Guruk to everybody. Good evening, and welcome to our second quarter FY 'nineteen-'twenty results conference call. As always, we will start with the overall financials and then cover each business financials in more detail. As you would recall, we had briefed you about the application of IND AS116 to our financials in our last quarter results call. For the sake of comparison with our last year financials, we would be calling out the respective numbers without adjusting for Ind AS impact in this call as well. The audited financial statements filed and the other schedule on segmental billings, revenues, etcetera, along with a data sheet have been uploaded to our website, www.inpoel.in. So let's move on to the stand alone financials. Billings in Q2 were INR 300.5 crores, up 15.3% year on year. Revenue in Q2 was INR 316.6 crores, up 19.5 percent year on year. Operating expenses, excluding depreciation for the quarter, were INR217.3 crores, up 19.1% year on year. And operating expenses we adjusted for Hind AS116 stood at INR223.5 crores, up by 2.5% year on year. Operating EBITDA stood at INR 99.3 crores versus INR 82.5 crores last year, having increased 20.3% year on year. And operating EBITDA readjusted for Hind AS '1 116 stood at INR 93.1 crores, up 12.9% year on year. Operating EBITDA margin for the quarter stood at 31.4%. Operating EBITDA readjusted for Ind AS 01/2016 stood at 29.4%, down from 31.1% last year. And EBITDA readjusted for ESOP noncash charges and Ind AS116 stood at INR98.6 crores versus INR83.9 crores in Q2 of last financial year. EBITDA margin readjusted for ESOP and Ind AS116 for the quarter stood at 31.1%. Cash EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR382.54 crores, up 3.6% year on year. Deferred sales revenue stood at INR480.7 crores as of September 3039 versus INR440.6 crores as of September 3039, a strong growth of 16% year on year. The cash balance in InfoEdge and its 100% subsidiaries standards was at INR 1,500 crores as of thirtieth September twenty nineteen. This was at INR $18.78 crores on thirtieth September twenty eighteen. PBT for S120, standards were INR $2.25 crores before exceptional items. Impact of deferred tax as is reversal is INR 12 crores due to the change in the tax rate. The tax provision for H1 is INR 63 crores. The effective tax rate for the business for H1 stands at 3.8% of PBT before exceptional item. The same in FY 'nineteen was 38.3%, and FY 'eighteen was 28.2%. All three of our ninety ninety nine nine Acres, Nokkie and Diva Sati, exhibited strong performance during the quarter with a billing growth in the high teens despite a slowdown in several parts of the economy. We continued to increase our spend on marketing in Diva Sati as part of our strategy to gain market share, and this has started showing up in our billing growth for the quarter. Overall, though spend on marketing for the quarter was maintained at INR 51 crores, which was in line with our Q1 marketing spend. We continue to invest aggressively in multiple new areas in all our verticals. Brand building, data science, new products and strategic acquisitions took investments for the future. We have also ceded two new businesses inside the company, one in the premium hiring space and another in the blue collar job space. At the consolidated level, the net sales of the company stood at INR3.9.5 crores versus INR280 crores from quarter in September 2018. For the consolidated entity at the PAT level, there is a loss of INR111.8 crores versus a loss of INR 40.7 crores from the corresponding quarter in the corresponding quarter of 2018. Adjusted for exceptional items, PATH stood at a loss of INR 113.4 crores in the quarter ended September versus a loss of INR25.3 crores in the same quarter last year. Now we will talk about the Recruitment segment in a little more detail. In '20, Recruitment segment billings were 209.8 crores, up 14% year on year, while revenues were at INR 226.4 crores, a growth of 18.7% year on year. Operating EBITDA stood at INR 123.9 crores, up 19.3% year on year. EBITDA margins were at 54.7% versus 54.5% in Q2 of FY 'eighteen'nineteen. And EBITDA we adjusted for in the AS 01/2016 stood at INR 120.85 crores with a margin of 60.4%. And EBITDA adjusted for readjusted for ESOP noncash charges and in the AS 116, six stood at INR120.4 crores at 54.5% versus 54.8% in Q2 of 'nineteen. Cash EBITDA for recruitment during the quarter stood at INR 306.8 crores, up 9% year on year. In in Q1 of in Nocree, in Q2 of FY 'twenty, we added an average of 30,000 TVs, new TVs every day, and the North Sea database grew to over 66,000,000 TVs. Apple TV modifications were also at 430,000 plus per day. We continue to be a market leader amongst our conventional domestic peers, with our traffic share increasing to 88%. As indicated by our JobSeek Index, we are beginning to see a slowdown in the non IT market. A strong customer base in the IT and ITS segments, which has been unaffected by the slowdown till now, has so far helped us drive growth in the Nokri business. We continue to explore avenues for future long term growth in our Nokri business. However, in the short term, a slowing economy could be a challenge. Our app usage, revenue registration, site engagement metrics continue to see healthy growth. Our branding campaigns have also helped us grow our traffic share in recent months. IIM Jocs reported a billing of 4.63 crores for Q2 of 'nineteen-'twenty. This is a growth of 15% over last year. The business operated at breakeven level during the quarter barring some onetime payoff. Moving to the 99 Acres business. Billings in Q2 in 99 Acres grew 20.8% year on year to INR 60.5 crores, while revenue grew 26.2% to INR 57 crores. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 4.3 crores. EBITDA profit for the quarter stood at INR 4.3 crores. EBITDA adjusted for Ind AS 116 stands at a profit of INR 2.4 crores, against a loss of INR 4.6 crores in Q4 'nineteen. And EBITDA adjusted for ESOP and Hind AS 116 expenses stood at a profit of INR 3.6 crores versus a loss of INR 4.4 crores last year in the same quarter. Cash EBITDA for 99 acres during the quarter stood at INR6.8 crore against INR57 lakhs last year. The overall business in that environment in the real estate business continues to be tough. We are focused on getting to clear leadership position in the big cities and the same time driving deeper penetration into the smaller sort of thousand cities. The broker segment continues contributes more than 53% of our overall revenue and has been a key growth driver of the business in both the primary and the secondary market. The key areas of focus and investment in 99 acres will continue to be brand building, improvement in the core platform experience and improvement in the data quality of our listings on the platform. Moving on to the Gvinsati business. Billings in Gvinsati grew 16% year on year in Q2 to INR 20.8 crores, while revenue grew 13.1% year on year to INR 20.8 crores. Operating EBITDA losses stood at INR 16.5 crores in Q2 of FY 'twenty, up from INR 7.2 crores last year. EBITDA adjusted for Hind AS 116 stood at a loss of INR 17.3 crores. EBITDA readjusted for ESOP and INR 116 stood at a loss of INR 17 crores for Q2 versus a loss of INR 7.1 crores last year. Cash loss for Jivasati during the quarter stood at INR17 crore. This strategy of high marketing spends to get more revenue share in the Jivasati vertical in the Match Mini vertical seems to be working well for us and will continue. Moving on to Sikksha business. In Q2, billings in Sikksha grew 9.5 year on year to INR9.4 crores, while revenue grew 16% year on year to INR12.5 crores. We made an EBITDA profit of INR20 lakhs. EBITDA adjusted for India AS 116 stood at a loss of INR 30 lakhs. EBITDA readjusted for ESOP and INT AS 116 for the quarter stood at INR 6 lakhs versus a loss of INR 22 lakhs last year. Cash loss for the quarter, which is a lean quarter in the Education space stood at INR3.0 crores. Moving on to our strategic investments. Zomato continues to drive efficiency across the organization. Burn in Zomato is down from a peak of $1,450,000 to less than about to about $20,000,000 a month now. Zomato is focusing on both increasing the take rates from restaurants as well as reducing the cost per delivery. Both PolicyBazaar and TataBazaar also continue to grow well. PolicyBazaar are actually focusing on developing exclusive products for their users with insurance companies. The secondary sales transfer deal between Tencent and Tiger Global is also closed and was executed recently. Based on revised revenue forecast for Merit Nation, we have provisioned for INR79.6 crores during the quarter. And recently, we also announced investments in a few startups like Legendware, Great HR, Hunter twenty four, fifty seven and T. We also did follow-up rounds in ShopKiran, ShoeConnect, Happy and Married during the quarter. We continue to evaluate both new investment opportunities, both financial and strategic, and we'll sort of continue and we'll from time to time, yes. Thank you so much. We are now ready to take questions. Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. The first question is from the line of Sharma Kunan from Perfect Research. Please go ahead. Hello? Hello? Yes. Go ahead, please. Yeah. Good evening, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. So I have few questions, so I'm missing down them together. Okay. So for us, please, your majority revenue is coming from subscription to recruitment database. So what step are you taking to diversify it? The secondon.com is a service which a customer will not use it repeatedly and thus having very low lifetime value. So does it make sense to invest behind such platform where everyday you will have to find new customers? Third, lifetime, The US economy went in 02/1989. There there was a big big commitment hiring in IT and our revenue. So what's that are we taking to diversify this dependency on this sector? The fourth, what risk do you what risk do you see for the Amazon entry in the food delivery market on Zomato? And then lastly, what press trend do you see from the g GeoMoney and Paytm coming in insurance segment for policy data? Thank you. Okay. Those are five questions. We try and also follow them. Yes, For recruitment, you said database and a lot of our revenue comes from the database. What are our plans for diversification? You're absolutely right. Database sales are a large part of our revenue. Over time, we make many other sort of offerings. In our recruitment business, we sell job listings, we sell branding solutions, we sell e hire services to certain companies. We also have an ATS product, RMS, which sort of has a few thousand customers now. So together, some of all these sort of products are now maybe about 35 to 40% of our revenue in Nocree, and some of them are growing faster than the database products. But the database product also continues to be a large part of our revenue and continues to be in big demand. Given Patti, so the question was whether the low light sort of time value of a customer makes it not a good mix, doesn't make it a great business to invest What we've seen is that and one of our one of the companies in our space is listed as part of Match Money. Over time, they've sort of managed to get to a reasonable EBITDA margin. So what we realized is once you build a brand, your customer acquisition costs go down. Marriage is a very sort of important life event in the life of any sort of human being. And often, it takes it's not as if you get onto a portal and you get married in two months. Sometimes, it could take a year or two for you to find the right match. And what we realize is that sort of many people on our platform have been on our platform for a long time to get the right match. So even if they get a lot of contact, they sort of continue sort of for a while till the time to find the right match. And they're also willing to pay a lot for a service like this. So we believe that if one can get to clear leadership in this vertical in the markets in which we operate, over time, the EBITDA margin can actually be fairly healthy, right? Because once the brand gets built, customer action costs go down, and you can still monetize that. IT dependency, that speaks to the nature of the market. About 40% of our revenue comes from IT and IT related companies. What has happened over the last few years is that this earlier, it used to be only the software services company, which were sort of body shopping or getting work from The U. S. Offshore to them. Now this vertical is fairly I IT what we call IT has sort of grown over time. There are product development companies. There are energy back offices. There are two in this sort of segment. There are startups who hire IT sort of folks. They are also part of this segment. So the truth is there's a lot of activity in this space still. IT companies are still hiring, they're still growing. Startups are hiring, they are growing. More and more M and A is already carrying back office in India. This part of our business continues to grow well. About 60% of our business is from non IT space. And here, we've seen a slowdown, which we've which I'm sure is temporary. Once we can't be recovered, this part of the business will also start doing well. But the truth is that a lot of white collar job creation is in the services sort of space. And within that, IT companies tend to be the large headers. And unless and until that changes, our sort of dependent on IT will continue to be high, right? Sandeep, do want to answer the answer? On the Motto and Aragon, naturally, when a company in Aragon indicates that they might be entering the food delivery space, obviously, you watch it with great interest. But one thing I want to say, this is that food delivery is very different from product delivery because you want food delivered in thirty minutes completing the order. It's a very, very different sort of delivery speed, delivery and logistics organization as of when you say, I'm delivering twenty four hours or forty eight hours over the evening, right? And that's a whole new kind of organization. So while obviously, we are watching the interest, we are confident about what we will do, continue to grow and defend itself, okay? Now the second question was about Positiva. Positiva has reached a place where it can has fixed serious market modes. It has got good defenses. First of it's got a brand. Most of it's started with organic. It means customers prefer the brand. It's got deep relationships with insurance companies. It is launching exclusive products with insurance companies. So we don't see CompuCom also being threatened by new entrants in a hurry. So we are as of now, we are watching. Obviously, you're going be paranoid about competition all the time, and we're watching from competition all the time and so so are the management of these two companies, the founders and and other people there. But we are confident of, in defending the terms and going. Okay, sir. Understood. Thank you, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Diresh Patak from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you. On Jeevan Sathi, the growth that you mentioned, revenue growth, can you provide more color in terms of how is it driven by, you know, the paying subscribers versus realization for paying subscribers? Give some more color on this. No. See, this is what we are comfortable with dealing. You know, basically, you know, the industry revenue is a function of how many free users you can get onto the platform and then how many of those converted to sort of paid users and what you are able to get from them when they pay to you, and how much you sort of, have to spend to acquire those users, right? So what we see over time is that our sort of market share in the markets we operate, which is mostly the Northern and Western parts of the country, has been growing, thanks to our higher sort of marketing trends, which has resulted in higher top of my recall and and more custom and more sort of profile acquisition for us. You know, revenue growth is exact number, can you provide, like, some in terms of, like, are you doing a large trade off between very low realization versus, you know, large revenue growth coming from paying subscribers? And have you materially dropped your realization? Well, we haven't materially dropped our realizations from what they were one or two quarters back. But yes, we are aggressive both on marketing and pricing in the market. Okay. And losses have increased quarter over quarter. So last year, we saw one step increase in marketing spend in So this quarter, is there a further step increase? And how do you see that going forward? Yes. Yes. We've upped our marketing spend in Givensati this quarter. The industry is, right now, is very competitive. All the other players also have their market expense, Match Money and Chardee are spending a lot more than they were spending at the same time last year, and so are we. So it's a very competitive market. And so so as we we we continue to get aggressive in this market. Okay. We are also spending a lot more than what we were spending one quarter back or at the same time last year. So this run rate is expected to continue, is it? Or this is just like a one off quarter? No, no. This is expected to continue for a while. The next question is from the line of Parag Gupta from Morgan Stanley. Hitesh, my first questions are on 99 acres. So your deferred revenue growth on that segment has been under 10% now. When do you think that starts reflecting in the revenue growth, which has been in the 20s? And the second related question to that is, while there has been a small breakeven profit in '99 acres in this quarter, how should we think about this for second half? Yes. We should not read too much into the quarterly numbers in INR998 crores, I mean, because the truth is the market is still a very tough market. New launches are sort of not happening like at the same rate as I wish they were happening maybe a couple of years ago. There is a financial crunch out there. New home sales are sort of flattish or down in most markets. The reason we have sort of shown a small profit this quarter is because we cut our marketing spend a little bit. But this could change going forward, depending on competition and a bunch of other things. So right now, we are okay. We are growing at 21%. We believe we are at 21%. Revenue will grow even faster. But like I said, the market is tight, and it's still very competitive. So this could change very quickly going forward. So this is so we're not saying that we're to continue to grow at this rate going forward. I mean growth rate could improve or you will fall. It's hard to predict in this market. Got it. And on the recruitment, you know, you have been talking about blue collar segment for for some now. So what is the progress there? You know, is the product ready? What can and, you know, what are your market findings suggesting with respect to the opportunity set and who your competitors could be on that front? Still very early days. I mean we see it as a big opportunity in the long term. And when I say long term, I mean five to ten years. I don't mean a year or two or three years from now. We are just getting started. We have built a couple of apps, which we are testing in the market with both job seekers and customers. Once we get confidence in what we have built, we will roll that the product out to more geographies. So we are very early in this game. Just like I said, we have sort of a small team working on this at this point in time. And we are seeing this as we think of this as a long term play, not something that we have to sort of win or invest substantially behind in the next twelve to fifteen months. But yes, over a ten year period, this could be a large business. Got it. Thanks, Satish. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Devra Dematsinka from Bajuria Financial Services. Please go ahead. Hello. Hello? Yeah. Hey. Good. Good. Good. Can you hear me? Yeah. We can hear you. Okay. So I just have one quick question. It's just about, you know, how you see things going forward. Like, what would you what would you say you know, like, what kind of acquisitions do you plan to make in within the next six months? And, I mean, are you currently, you know, working on any kind of deals where we can potentially see some new acquisitions happening over, say, the next quarter or two quarters, if you could throw some light on that? We just acquired IIM Jong a few months back. We have a long list of companies which we would I didn't like to acquire at the right But these are the large things you can make happen in three months or six months. So many of these things are opportunistic. Are you open to acquisitions in the space that we operate? Absolutely, right? If something like to happen in the next one or two months, hard for me to say. We keep talking to companies. We keep talking to founders. We sort of keep analyzing information. So we are sort of at it, but, you know, all these things happen when they are supposed to happen, they happen. Right. And I just had one more question on, you know, Zomato. Like, there have been articles, you know, floating around the news that say that there is a possibility that the matter might be breakeven by next year. Is that actually viable? Like do you think that, that can happen? So in March, the burn was USD 45,000,000. Think, overall, it's around 20,000,000. We have a clear agenda and program, see cutting burn while still growing order value. Total revenue orders. It takes me month on month. Is it possible? Answer is yes. Will it happen? Fingers crossed. Wait and watch. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mayank Bhabla from Dalal and Brochure. Please go ahead. Thank you for taking my question and congratulations on a good set of numbers. So actually, I have a few questions. One was, could you throw some light on this diminishing and carrying value of investments in start up investments in Aflac? Could you explain what was the reason for that? So basically, you know, in this at like, you know, which is running this type of merit nation, we have taken the diminution. So this is more to follow the accounting standard that we follow that we usually carry the investment at cost or market value, which is lower. So I think there are certain revenue concerns now on nonmarignation. And because of that, auditors felt that we should take some kind of an impairment in the process. And we have followed that, and we have taken the impairment on that. And so start up investments, is that is the same reason? Or it's No. So start up investments is an is a vehicle where most of our new investments, you know, have been, you know, Okay. So this is in relation to policy, Pazar, or these are the new investments in start TCS and forces, they've hired north of 10,000 headcounts, most of which majority of which are Freshers. So considering that our growth in recruitment solutions has been 19%, which is more or less same at the same run rate, so don't you think that is less, or how does it impact us? No. See, we work with over 8,000 IT companies. So, you know, number one. Number two, mostly sort of we can sell annual subscriptions to them, so they renew at year end. Number three, the IT business for us, actually, while the overall sort of revenue may have grown or billings may have grown at 15%, 16%, The IT revenue grew at a much faster rate than that. The non IT market grew at a slower rate. So you're and this has been the case for now three or four quarters. So the IT sort of market for us, like language in Hyderabad, the IT segment has been growing north of more than 20%. The non IT market has been slow, which is why the average has been more like 1718% for us. Okay. And sir, as far as you spoke about the slowdown in real estate in nineteen nine acres, So could we see that coming down to single digits? Or you will maintain 15% sort of 25 20% plus growth there? It's very hard to say what is going to happen in real estate. The real estate market is very unpredictable and decent hit very quickly in this market. Sometimes we feel you're going to go at 40%, but you end up at 20% because something happened during the quarter, which sort of gets you back. In some cases, we've also had where we when we thought we would go at 20%, but we've grown at 30% or 40% also. So it's a little sort of unpredictable. We don't have a very large renewal business like we have in Okri. So a lot of the business every year is fresh sales or every quarter is fresh sales. And sentiment can change from quarter to quarter. So actually, it's harder for us to predict what growth and or what revenue will be like next quarter. A lot, like I said, depends on the economy, will depend on fund availability to developers, will depend on new launches, will depend on whether people are willing to sort of invest in property or not next quarter. So we are still hopeful that we will or we are still hoping, and the targets we have set for our team are, of course, in that range, but we don't we can't be sure. Okay. And sir, just my last question was from this there were a lot of news flow I know it's been previously asked also, but a lot of news flows with Amazon or might it was supposed to be launched by Diwali, but there's no news as such. But in your interactions, have you witnessed something? Or if you could, you know, help us with some guidance that if when if at all and when are they going to launch or something like that? Because I believe there, if they launch, there'll be a lot of pressure on ad spend on Zomato also, which will lead into an already squeezed margin. Actually, Zomato, like I said, is very confident of defending its stock and without saving its economics very much. And like I said, that it's a very different logistics operation as opposed to delivering, you know, other products because food and meals are highly perishable. If you order something at 12:30, you want it delivered at one 1PM, half an hour. It's a totally different delivery operation. So it's like setting up a whole new company. What Anwar, of course, is not is very well resourced and has not any of money. And they do know how to deliver, and they do know how to handle logistics and stuff like that. But food, you do not warehouse. Food, you pick up from a restaurant and deliver. And you pick up from maybe 30,000, 40,000 maybe 25,000 restaurants in Delhi and CR and Delhi and and Delhi. You deliver within a five-seven-eight kilometer radius, and you deliver at half an hour. So it's a very, very different operation. So even for Amazon, it will be a fresh fusion. It will not be a kind of thing. Okay. Okay, sir. That's all from me. Thank you so much. You. The next question is from the line of Shaleen Kumar from UBS. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity, and good evening, everyone. First of all, I just missed two data points. One is your billing growth in 99 acres and your comment about losses in Zomato. Have you given a monthly run rate of loss in Zomato? October was about USD 20,000,000. Marked down 45,000,000 in March. So every month, they're releasing. And Vain Group, Nigerian Acres was 20.8%. Vain Group. Okay. Okay. Sorry. In in, do you track something like a churn rate or something like that? Yeah. Because brokers are are are customers, and I believe the churn rate could be potentially higher on that side. And as you also mentioned, you know, the print printability is a bit low in this business because, you know, it depends a lot on the confidence. So you think that because that segment requires a lot of handholding or pushing as well. Is my understanding correct? So you're absolutely right. We work with all kinds of customers. We work with developers. We work with owners. We work with large channel partners. We work with retail brokers, we work with people in the rental business. Churn is always very high with the smaller customers. So the customers who run mom and pop shops, have our one man shows, many of these businesses also shut down over time. So churn is very high. The smaller the customer, the higher churn. There is less churn at the with customers who pay us a lot more. So we've been in the business for many years who are sort of serious players who have large operations and so on. But yes, we track all these metrics, and we monitor them closely. So unless, Anand, we see a real uptick in the underlying market and we see builders coming up in, this segment is likely to be volatile, and we may require a guru investing in terms of real marketing also. You're absolutely right. Think what this is this the real estate market has, I think, peaked in 2010, 'eleven, and it's been, going downwards since then. The good news is that despite all this, our business has been growing every year. So irrespective of what happens in the real estate market, we've been growing at 15%, 20%, 30% every year. We have now reached a point where we are averaging about INR 20 crores a month in terms of revenue, and we are sort of either breaking even or making a little bit of money. Sometimes we lose a little bit of money, but it's not the business which is sucking up a lot of money. Having said but the market but you have to do it, the market continues to be tight, people are buying fewer homes. I mean, compared to the peak, I think sales are down to by 50% even ten years later. Strong for the real estate prices haven't gone up in most markets for many years. Having said so, we believe there are still many opportunities in this space. It's a very large category. We are so far we are so far focused mostly on the new home side. There's a lot more we can do on in new homes. There's a lot more we can do in resale. There's a lot more we can do in rental. Commercial property is something we haven't even touched. Yes, we don't do too much in the commercial. So in long term, I think it's a very big opportunity. Short term, there'll be ups and downs. There'll be years in which we do well. There'll be years in which we don't do well. But I think the trend is very clear. INR 50 crore or INR 20 crore a month business, breaking even, growing year on year. It's only a matter of time before it becomes large and profitable. For sure. For sure. I agree with you. And I also noticed that your employee cost has gone up a bit higher in this quarter. Any specific reason for that? No, in general, sort of, we've been upping we've been, of course, one, hiring more people and two, we've been upping the quality of talent we have in every area. We are investing a lot more in platform development. We are investing a lot more in data time design, improving the customer experience on our platform. Like I said, we also created a couple of new products, which are not going to generate revenue for a while, but we will spend on them for the next two, three years before they start sort of get anywhere. So we're making a lot of new investments, and most of these investments are in the require us to hire people. And some of these people are very expensive, but and there's no revenue. But hopefully, over time, as a result of these investments, we'll be in much better shape. And but it'll take a couple of years. Sure. Most of the hiring is on a mid segment kind of more on a tech segment rather than on a freelance suite kind of a marketing side? Yes. Mostly, it's a lot of high value hires, so there is some volume hiring. As this is where you tend to hire a few more people in customer service, a few more people in sales, a few more people in operations and so on, but they're not very large. And such and these resources are not very expensive. A lot of high value hiring is, like I said, in what are data science, technology, marketing, and some of the new businesses, which we are building for the future, which we're investing in for the future. Sure. And just a last bit, if I can squeeze in. Any comment on completion? Like your marketing cost is high related because of the G1TATI, but there an element of a competition related to Nocree as well as 1980 as well in that? See, Nocri, you know, we were we we had not spent a lot of money on on marketing and brand building for many years. We felt that, you know, we have been out of media for a long time. So this year, we were a lot more aggressive in Lockheed in the first half this year. And that paid rich dividends because we are out of media for a long time. We went back into media, and we can see the difference in terms of the number of app downloads and the number of resume registrations and modifications on our platforms has really worked well. It's not something which I mean, of course, in general, we've up the level of market spend a little bit, but some of these spends are sporadic. We may spend in one quarter and not spend in the next quarter. Let's see how this plays out. In nicer sectors, actually, we have cut our spending in the first half of this year. We do not spend as much as we, I think, probably spent in first half of last year. We are investing in some other areas, which we think deserves more investment right now. But this could change, but again, a lot will depend on what competition does in the market. In Siemens RTI, we regret it. In the Siemens RTI space, in the Massoni space, what has happened is that ad spend of all the players maybe three years ago, was about INR100 crores between us and Chadi and Massoni. Now it's 300 crores. So every player has upped their ad spend and so have we. And for us, it's working. It's paying this dividend. We are gaining share. We're gaining volume. Our top of mind recall is improving in most of the geographies we operate And our morning is telling us that, you know, if you continue to do it for the next two, three years, we'll get we'll become a very serious player in the market. Sure. Thank you so much for this. That's it for for my time. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vivekanand Subraman from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. I have three questions. So one is on the recruitment billing. I see that it has moderated this quarter compared to the last four, five quarters. So is this moderation led by IT becoming IT billing moderating? Or is it the non IT part of the billing that has slowed down further? Secondly, on in the matchmaking segment, you're doing phenomenally well compared to matrimony. How is it that your bidding growth is so good compared to their bidding growth? What are the factors in your view? Is it something to do with your markets of foray or strong presence and competition thereof versus, say, the spot markets? Or is there something else? My last question is with respect to the investees. We saw this secondary transaction in Policy Bazaar. Did you also have an opportunity to either buy or sell stake here? What are your thoughts on your stake in PolicyBazaar? Would you be keen on increasing your stake, decreasing it? Or are you happy with your stake? And a related question on the investees is, do you foresee any potential for secondary transactions in Zomato? Thank you. So, Panshi, Buddha, I think our thinking right now is for the moment we'll stay put. We won't increase, we won't decrease. We've got a substantial exposure there, and we think that's more than adequate. You know, as far as Zamato is concerned, look, we, as of now, are not looking for a second lien. They are quite happy with where the company is going. And once it goes if it does go to breakeven by March or April or even later, we think the world will be different. Yes. To answer your question on IT versus non IT, So like I said, our overall billing growth of 15% is much higher for India IT markets, a lot lower than the non IT markets. So billing growth has slowed down, and a lot of it is because of slowdown in non IT hiring, especially markets like Mumbai, etcetera, which have been impacted the most, I guess, by the Financial Services sort of slowdown. The other question was about us sort of going faster than Match Money. See, I don't really I can't really comment on the Match Money business. But basically, we are spending a lot more on customer acquisition today than these than ever. And that's resulting in us sort of getting a lot of registrations and a of profiles, especially to the north and western parts of the country. And our market share in these markets is improving every month, right? And what tends to happen in these businesses is that once your market share tends to improve starts improving, then your conversion rates also start to improve. So as a result, because we get more profiles, more people find matches on our side, and therefore, people are willing to move from free to paid subscriptions on our platform. So our conversion rates are maybe, I don't have to match any number, catching up because we were always behind with our competitors. And then maybe some of our competitors are losing ground in the markets in which we operate. Because in the market which we operate, we are probably paying the most right now, and that's resulting in our carrying shares. We are most of it. Okay. Understood. So just one small follow-up. So you are suggesting that the market the markets where you are focused on, you are spending the most, whether it is on marketing or say on customer acquisition. Is that assessment correct? Yes. So and therefore, we're gaining share in these markets, and therefore, we're losing share in these markets. Got it. Thank you. All the best. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vimal Goel from UBI Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. I'm from Union Mutual Fund, if that stands to be corrected. Sir, my I just have three data points. Rest of rest of the questions have been answered. Could you just tell me what was Jeevan Sathi's revenue? I missed out on that bit. And could you just give me recruitment businesses and maintain any current businesses EBITDA numbers, please? Jeevan Sathi revenue growth was 16% and billing growth was sorry, billing growth was 16%, revenue growth was about 13.1%. Billing was INR 20.8 crores and so was revenue. Now recruitment operating EBITDA in the recruitment segment stood at INR 123.9 crores, up 19.3% from September. And EBITDA readjusted for India at INR116 stood at INR12045 crores. And EBITDA readjusted for rupees of noncash charge in India at INR16 stood at INR123.4 crores versus and EBITDA margins were around 54.7% or so. In the real estate space, EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 4.3 crore. EBITDA adjusted for India, etcetera, stood at INR 2.4 crore versus a loss of INR 4.6 crore last year. And EBITDA cash EBITDA on itineraries during the quarter was INR 6.8 crores against the INR 57 lakhs EBITDA profit last year. And EBITDA adjusted for EPUB in the AS 01/2016 stood at INR 3.3 crores versus a loss of INR 4.4 crores last year in the second quarter. Just to make sure, your recruitment EBITDA, you said adjusted for India at INR 124 crores, right? Yes. That's correct. Okay. Okay. And what was this last quarter adjusted for India's? Sorry. Adjusted for India's was $1.20.85 crore. $1.20.85? Yeah. Adjusted, meaning actual EBITDA is $1.23.9 crores as per the new norm, but adjusted for India is $1.16, so that's $1.20.85 crores. Okay. So actual EBITDA is $1.23.9? What is reported is 123.94, sir. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much, and all the very best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Swapnil from JM Financial. Please go ahead. Hi. Hello? What is going? We can hear you. Yeah. Hi. This is Trish Kodak, actually. So so just two just two questions from my side. One, there has been a good 2.5 odd percent margin improvement in Nocree on a q on q basis. I'm just trying to understand. Is this primary to do with lower marketing spend in Nocree for this quarter? And and the second bit on, will the technology spends continue in Nokri as we have planned, and we've been doing for the last four, five quarters? To answer your second question, yes, we will continue to, you know, address aggressively invest aggressively in all the products that we're building, all the platform changes we are making, all the new algorithms that we're developing and so on. So that will continue. Now why has the margin improved by 2.4%? Maybe I mean, we'll have to sort of get back to you on this one, maybe on account of higher revenue. Yes. Think marketing cost doesn't kind of consistence, you know. So, yes, it could be some other cost, which would have. It's a small unit, you know, looking for. Okay. Okay. And secondly, sir, on Zomato, the company has done phenomenally well to expand operations as well as decrease its burners simultaneously. But it's a bit intriguing intriguing why how are they able to do that even while expanding into tier two, three, four cities, expanding to 400, 500 cities now. How have they been actually able to reduce burn rates? I'm not sure if you can when you grow very, very fast and you focus totally on top line growth, very often you don't keep your eye on cost of growth, right? So a number of cost inefficiencies creeping. And then when you say, okay, now the time of funds got burned, you start examining those costs and you figure out ways to do the same thing at a lower cost, right? So for example, they're cutting discounts, they're cutting marketing at the bottom end on small orders. They're cutting misuse and abuse, like people breaking up orders into two or three to get discounts, more discounts, and so on. And just by doing that, they are able to they are being able to cut the work. Okay. And and maybe things like I I think there's no more piggy bank now, I think, things like that. The piggy bank was not draining money. Okay. Okay. Thanks thanks, sir. That that's also. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mukul Garg from Hytong Securities. Please go ahead. Thank you for taking my question. I have two for, you know, Satish. Satish, first on on the Malkri business, can you help us with the sectoral visibility in in other industries except for the IT? Where are you seeing the slowdown particularly or is it across the board? And also if you can share the traffic share versus indeed for the most recent period? Yes. So we produce a monthly job peak index, and that has data by industry, and that's reasonably sort of accurate. So what we are seeing is that the slowdown is steady to more sectors. So earlier, it was limited to sectors like infrastructure and telecom and real estate. Now banking and financial services are also being impacted. We are seeing a slight slowdown in exports in sort of travel and tourism and some of those areas as well. It's not very pronounced, but things seem to be slowing down a bit in some of those sectors. Sectors like health care, education are still okay. IT services are still okay. But the other sort of manufacturing, exports, infrastructure, real estate, telecom, financial services, banking, some of these sectors seem to have been hit by the slowdown. And sorry, what was the second question? Missed it. So what is the online user profit share which you have for the recent quarter or the month versus Indeed? Yes. So it's been for the last few months, I think we've been averaging about 56% if you include Indeed in our competitors' sort of list. Excluding Indeed, we are currently at about 88%. And this is when you take the market to be just us and Monster and Times Job and Shine and Indeed. And what is the number if you include Indeed a year back? Was it around the same, 63 or 100 No, no. We had like I mentioned earlier, we had been out of media for a long time. So our market share had dropped a little bit, if you would include Indeed, along with the other players. We have maybe recovered about four or five points in the last two, three, four months. Right. Nagin, you've mentioned earlier on the call that you have got your, you know, marketing spend on the marketing business, and you are you are kind of thinking about whether they could, know, going forward. Given, you know, the the business which you are seeing in in other sectors, you know, high dependency on the IT. Is there something which is going to be a big focus for next few quarters? Can help us understand immediately how you are planning the marketing spend on the Nokia business? Well, actually, we decide on some of these things at the beginning of the quarter. So depending on how the market is, what kind of activity we see in our platform, what kind of competitor activity we see or foresee, we take these calls. We were on media as in mainstream media, TV and stuff like that for a long time. And when we went back to media, the results we got were very encouraging. You may have noticed that the number of TVs we acquired last quarter actually went up to 20,000 a day. Amort also went up. Traffic on the platform is very healthy. Now if the market starts to slow down, we may revisit some of these strategies. What also tends to happen on store market is that you generally have more sort of activity in your platform because there are more people looking for jobs, unless the market is very, slow in which when because on that asset, people actually give a book or find a job, so they stop with me. But so we sort of look at how we think every quarter, and they take a call of business quarter on whether we should be spending and how much we should be spending on marketing. It's hard for me to say what's going to happen going forward. Got it. And then one question for Sanjeev. Sanjeev, on Zumeta side, almost, I think, for last one year, there are new items which are coming out about cost 100, especially on upfront. We have not seen that, particularly as in the stake sale and kind of some of the same thing. So can you help us with any visibility exactly? Is Zumata looking out for funds? Or are they happy with their current cash position? And the second part is if there is a requirement for you guys to participate from a new entrant, would you be, you know, would you be participating, or you would like to stay away? So on the first one, I think there is enough investor interest in Zamaro that should they need money, they will get it when want it, right? But they're not announcing anything right now, so we can't say anything right now. As far as our participant is concerned, we are always supporting our good companies. Having said that, it's quite apparent to us that, look, Zamato is perhaps a little bigger than our balance sheet can accommodate in terms of further investment, the kind of around sizes that this business will require, should it require money. So while we have an open mind, there is substantial interest for the investor that will invest in tomorrow should we need the money. Got it. Thanks for taking my questions. The next question is from the line of Ritesh Bhagwati from Rockstar Capital. Sir, could you just repeat in regards to the impairment which we have recorded under the Startup Investment Holding Limited under this quarter? Like which company was it pertaining to? And why did we take that? So there was impairment in Merit Nation, Applet. And as a consequence, there was impairment in start up holdings, which is a 100% of the reviewers, and which is just largely a hold for some of our investments. So but basically, it was it was Meditation Applet, which is an underlying asset level impact. Ablik. So that was 8.3. But what about under Startup Investment Holding Limited? Which companies were we pertaining to? So the variety of assets under Startup Investment is another type of subsidiary. So it can be made possible that in some places, the investments have gone up, some places, investments have come down. So it gets segregated. There are some parts of merit nation which was held by start up investment and it should have been impaired. But there is also some part of investment, which were held directly by InfoEdge. So it's in stand alone as well. So when you're looking at the INR 83 crore number, it's mostly around start up investment. But I think in quarter one also, were certain certain impairment was taken in some other companies, and that INR83 crores is combined number of tax. Okay. Fair enough. Thanks a lot. Thanks very much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Salil Desai from Marcellus. Please go ahead. On medicalization, after this provision for the deletion, how do you look at the business? Any changes in strategy or approach? Well, look, medication has been impaired because, I mean, obviously, the business is under some stress, which is quite healthy. I mean, so we are still evaluating all options over there. Can't say anything more right now. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sanjay Ladha from Concept Investwell. Please go ahead. Thank you. So, sir, how do you see the valuation for the start up as we have lost many still commanding a very expensive valuation? And we see the example of WeWork and IDW, and now the valuation substantially corrected in WeWork. What is our view? And we are sort of start up now. And the second is how you see yourself going for long larger than longer term horizon, say, three to five years. Can we see same growth rate going forward, or it can be improved from here? Thank you. So same growth rate in InfoEdge or growth rate in what? Growth rate in in our company, right, in the revenue and profit or profit dumps. Of of InfoEdge? Yeah. Yeah. So I'll ask so I'll answer the first part of the question, and what's happening on startup valuations, and, maybe Hitesh can answer the second part. So look, we typically go into our start ups early on, right, before valuations have been bid up early. We sometimes do follow ons, and those would be largely to defend our pro rata, sometimes even more. But essentially, we are not we don't pay terribly high valuations in most cases, right? So we are conservative as far as our investing stand is concerned on valuation. Having said that, look, it's pretty obvious that, look, there has been a kind of divorce between public market valuations and private market valuations for a while. And essentially, that's what happened to WeWork, that The private market valuation was something else and the company market only gave you some ultimately gave you a certain valuation, right? But as long as you're conservative when you go in early, we believe our investments will be okay so long as the company so long as the business operations are good. In case you want to talk on growth? Yes, growth. So a couple of things. In both mockery and real estate, a lot will depend on what happens to the economy. We are very, very tightly sort of indexed to the GDP growth rates, for example. So the Indian economy starts keep growing at 5% per annum or 6% per annum, then of course, it's going be hard for us to grow at more than 15%, 20%. But on the other hand, economic growth picks up and IT companies continue to hire, like they've been hiring for the last four, five quarters, then who knows, at 78% GDP growth, we could also go at 25%, 30% time with that, but that's possible. That's doable. We've done it in the past, and nothing much has changed. Our market share continues to be high. So and we're working on a bunch of new things, new products, like I said. Similarly, real estate, the real estate market has been down for many years now. If growth were to come back, if the problems in the real estate industry get sorted out over the next one or two years, then who knows? If more homes start selling, if more if real estate becomes more affordable, if buyer interest comes back, if builders are better capitalized, I mean, we may grow much faster than we are what we are doing today. On the other hand, if things slow down even further, then our growth rate could suffer. So there are two so one is, of course, like I said, we continue to invest aggressively in all over because and we will try very hard to sort of offer better services, improve our customer experience, try and gain share from our competitors, try and one. Two, there's a natural trend. The revenue is going to move from offline to online, and that will only continue all the verticals we have in which we are present. And three, we can if the economy picks up from here on, then of course, our growth can also move into the next orbit. So just on a follow-up basis, so apart from Lockheed verticals, other part of the business are in last meetings, so how you are looking forward? Or how you are that this sort of companies will be profitable at net level at any if you use some guidance and not other more than short term and other more simplified for upwards of five years? Yes. So it's not as if our business are losing a ton of money. 99 acres has been floating with breakeven for several quarters now. In some quarters, we make money, in some quarters, lose money. But it's not as if we're burning a lot of money in 99 acres, Dicto and Shiksha. Shiksha has also been like a breakeven business for a couple of years now. Do we need to invest more to get the business do we see more optionality? We see a lot of opportunities, and we will continue to invest directly in these verticals. And like I said, even though let's say real estate, for example, as a case study, volumes have fallen maybe 50% over the last five, seven years in real estate. Offline advertising spends have shrunk maybe by 50%, 70% over the last five, seven years. The total market for advertising has shrunk by maybe 30%, 40%, 50% over the last five, seven years. But our revenue has been growing at 20% per annum for the last four, five years. So if this continues, even if you continue to this market continues to be the market it is today for the next five years, hopefully, we'll still double our revenue over the next five years at the very minimum. On the other hand, if you get better at executing and you improve the experience further and if sort of growth comes back to real estate, we could grow even faster, right? And a lot of the investments we sort of needed to make in building our technology and our brand and our platform has been made. Yes, some more investments will have to be made as we sort of as the business grows, but maybe not to the same extent as we have been doing in the past. So therefore, our margins sort of today's a five year period, our margins should also sort of become a lot better than they are today in real estate if we are able to do our double, triple our revenue over this period. Thank you. Thank you, Prahma. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mahang Babla from Dulal and Brochure. Please go ahead. Sir, Sir, thank you for taking my question again. Just one query on the accounting side. In the console balance sheet, sir, I've seen that investments have come down from $3.40 crores to $1.98 crores. So could you explain that to us? I would guess that it must be the, you know, the impairment that we have taken. That could be resulting into the reduction in the amount. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yep. That will be good. Okay. Okay, sir. Thanks. Thank you. Participants to ask a question, please press star then 1. The next question is from the line of Mahuresh, an individual investor. Your line is unmuted. Please unmute the line from your side and go ahead. You've reached an individual investor. Your line is unmuted. Please unmute the line from yourself. Go ahead. The next question is from the line of Devang Pat from ICICI Direct. Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you for taking my question. I just wanted to know your stand alone balance sheet. There has been increasing your noncurrent investments About thousand crores to 59 crores. Can you help me with that? Increase in one investment, non current. Non current. Non investments. Yeah. I'm non current investments. Confirm. I didn't get you, sir. Primarily because of the investment that happened in. In November November 13. Okay. And that is the reason that your current investment has declined from $3.39 to 64. Mister Pat, do you have any further questions? No. The I'm I just wanted a clarification. Is that the reason that the stand alone current investment has declined from $3.39 crores to 64 crores because of that investment is being funded from the current investment? Some part of that? The current investment would be because of, you know, the reduction that you have withdrawn money from mutual fund. Yeah. After the policy, we can say we withdrawn from that and then we have invested in policy design. Right. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to mister Hitesh Baroj for closing comments. Thank you everyone for taking time out on a holiday to be on this call, and have a great evening. Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of InfoEdge India Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.