Welcome to the Nazara Technologies Q3 nine months FY 2023 earnings conference call hosted by Elara Securities Private Limited. As a reminder, all participants lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there'll be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Karan Taurani. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Mike. Hi, everyone. Good morning, and welcome to this call of Nazara Technologies, Q3 FY 2023 and nine-month results con call. Please join me in welcoming the management of Nazara Technologies, which is represented by Mr. Nitish Mittersain, who is the Joint Managing Director. Mr. Sudhir Kamath, who is the Chief Operating Officer. Mr. Rakesh Shah, Group Chief Financial Officer. And Ms Anupriya Sinha Das, who is the Head of Corporate Development. I would now like to hand over the call to Mr. Nitish for his opening comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and a very warm welcome to all of you to Nazara Technologies Q3 and nine-month FY 2023 earnings call. I would like to start by wishing all of you a very happy New Year and a fantastic 2023 ahead. I have with me Sudhir Kamath, our Chief Operating Officer, Rakesh Shah, our Chief Financial Officer, Anupriya Sinha Das, our Head of Corporate Development, and SGA, our IR firm. We've uploaded our results presentation on the exchanges, and I hope everyone has had the opportunity to go through the same. Coming straight to our financial performance, we of INR 8,017 million in nine months FY 2023, which is up 80% year-on-year. Our EBITDA came in at INR 820 million for the nine months and a PAT of INR 558 million, which is up 22% year-on-year.
For Q3 FY 2023, we generated INR 3,148 million, up 69% year-on-year. Our EBITDA came in at INR 306 million and a PAT of INR 224 million, which is up 31% year-on-year. This performance is in line with our stated goal of driving fast growth through reinvestments into the businesses, while maintaining healthy profitability and positive cash flows. As we anticipated earlier and also mentioned in the last earnings call, it is heartening to see that our flagship product for young children, Kiddopia, came back on a growth path. Kiddopia subscribers grew by 3.7% in this quarter, while revenue grew by 21% , aided by the price hike we had taken in the earlier quarter.
We also undertook another price hike in this quarter on December first, and we have not seen any material negative impact in our core KPIs that we track, and this makes us confident that the benefits of this action will accrue to us in the coming quarters. I also want to highlight that our recent acquisition of Datawrkz in the AdTech space is performing well and has seen its revenues increase by 55% year-on-year to INR 1,182 million for the first nine months of FY 2023. Our businesses in NODWIN Gaming, Sportskeeda, Nextwave, and OpenPlay continue to perform well, and we are working closely with the Datawrkz team to ensure that they get onto a fast growth track at the earliest. A lot of the work we do with these businesses is instilling the Nazara DNA in each of them.
This includes focus on profitability, a long-term mindset, and enhanced governance. As long as we continue to drive these aspects, I firmly believe each of these businesses will continue to drive long-term compounding of value for us. We have also made several key hires across our businesses over the last few months, as we see the present market downturn as a good opportunity to attract good talent for ourselves. We have recently created a special projects team that will work closely to analyze and execute new opportunities that we want to pursue, including new tech trends such as Web3 and generative AI, with an intent to use them to our advantage across our businesses. We also continue to evaluate various M&A opportunities across the five verticals we operate in, and we will not hesitate to make fresh investments if opportunities fit our value creation framework.
I look forward to the continued support of all our stakeholders as we continue to pursue our long-standing commitment of Nazara playing a significant role in India's journey towards becoming a global gaming powerhouse. Now I will request Anupriya to talk about each of the businesses in detail, and thereafter, we will be happy to answer all your questions in detail as well. Over to you, Anupriya.
Thank you, Nitish. Good morning, everyone. In terms of our segment performance, esports contributed to 49% of revenue, while gamified early learning and AdTech contributed to 24% and 14% of revenue, respectively. Premium and skill-based real money gaming contributed to 2% and 5%, respectively, in nine-month FY 2023. Now moving to esports. For our esports vertical, which consists of NODWIN, Sportskeeda, and PublishME, our revenue grew by 84% for nine-month FY 2023 and 40% for Q3 FY 2023. During the same period, NODWIN grew. Revenue grew by 98% in nine-month FY 2023 and 53% year-on-year growth in Q3 FY 2023. NODWIN witnessed growth in revenue led by offline events such as DreamHack and NH7 Weekender, as well as creation of new international IPs.
EBITDA margins in NODWIN were lower due to significant investment made in creating these new IPs, as well as negligible margin contribution by the gaming accessories business that is still in high growth phase. Benefits of operating leverage will kick in as we scale revenue. Our own IPs and media rights revenue to stream to show non-linear EBITDA growth as IP scale. Also, the B2C business will become even more margin accretive once brands are well established. Revenue growth of 59% in nine-month FY 2023 compared to nine-month FY 2022, owing to strong growth in revenue from the US market, where Sportskeeda's video business and trending text offerings in core American sports like basketball, American football-
Miss Anupriya, can you hear us?
Hello.
Yes, ma'am, we can hear you now.
Yeah. So was I not audible in the beginning?
Yes, ma'am.
Okay. So should I-
No, go ahead, just continue.
8% growth in December 2022 versus December 2021, while average also saw a significant increase from 2 minutes 48 seconds in Q3 FY 2022 to 5 minutes 3 seconds in Q3 FY 2023. Gamified Early Learning , this vertical consists of Paper Boat and WildWorks. As Nitish mentioned, we are very excited to report that Kiddopia is back on the growth track, both in terms of subscriber growth and revenue. Subscriber growth for the quarter has been 3.7%. We increased marketing spend to $3.4 million in Q3 FY 2023, while maintaining CPT at $37 per user through time optimization for the user acquisition spend. Kiddopia has also taken another price hike in the beginning of December, and we have not seen any of our key metrics regress.
In turn, it has been 6.5%, 9% in Q3.
Sorry to interrupt, ma'am. Your voice is breaking in the between. The words are not clear. If you could speak, repeat the sentence once again.
Sure. Kiddopia has taken another price hike in the beginning of December, and we have not seen any of our metrics regress. In fact, churn has declined from 6.5% in Q2 to 5.9% in Q3. Our revenue growth for Q3 FY 2023 has been 21% year-on-year. Like Nitish mentioned, WildWorks is a work in progress. We have reported revenues of INR 298 million, with EBITDA of around INR 19 million in nine-month FY 2023. We are working on optimizing user spend across channels and working on product level updates to drive higher engagement and monetization. Moving to the AdTech segment, the AdTech revenue grew by 55% year-on-year in nine-month FY 2023. 31 new clients were added in nine-month period, contributing to 31% of total revenues during the same time.
I now move to the Premium segment. The revenue grew by 38% in nine-month FY 2023 over nine-month FY 2022, driven by 48% growth in ad revenues and 14% growth in IAP revenues. EBITDA margin increased to 29.9% in nine-month FY 2023 on account of revenue growth as operating expenses remained constant. We are in the process of ramping up the core team in Nextwave to help drive the next phase of growth for our business. Moving to the skill-based real money gaming asset called OpenPlay. Revenue growth of 28% in nine-month FY 2023, as OpenPlay works on optimization of products. We also note that the new proposed IT rules, which are the first steps towards clearer regulation of this sector.
As part of the public consultation, we have shared our feedback on some aspects that need further clarity, but overall, this is a great step. Moving to the Telco. For nine-month FY 2023, the revenue has declined by 16%, while EBITDA grew by 2%. We have been able to continue optimizing costs in this segment to drive higher EBITDA. I will close my remarks here and would like to open the call for Q&A and request Nitish, Sudhir, and Rakesh Shah to join me for the Q&A.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have the first question on the line of Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, it's Rahul Jain.
Rahul, your voice is not very clear. If you'll go off the speaker phone once.
I'm just
Okay. Mr. Rahul has left the queue. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. We have the next question from the line of Abhishek Kumar from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Good morning, everyone, and good to see growth back in Kiddopia. The first question I have is on Kiddopia. First, it looks like the growth has come at the expense of margin, which is not bad, but I just wanted to understand—you know, we have been taking price hikes for last couple of years. However, the blended ARPU seems to be quite stable. So just wanted to understand what is driving this. And second, you know, are you now comfortable with this kind of CAC, which seems to have stabilized, and therefore we can push for more user acquisition through higher marketing spend?
Hi, Abhishek. This is Nitish. I will answer both your questions. So I think if you see the ARPUs, right, the most recent price hikes have happened in the last quarter and the starting of December. What is important to understand is that the price hikes impact only new users that we acquire and not the existing subscriber base. So you will see a trend up of ARPUs over a period of time, which you are actually seeing. If I look at Q3 FY 2021, we were at $6.3 average monthly ARPU, which now increased to $6.8 on an average in Q3 of FY 2023.
We're seeing a gradual increase, and I think the back-to-back price increases that we've done in the last few months will, probably show a faster increase in ARPUs in the coming year. I think that's one point. I think on the CAC side, we are quite comfortable, with the current range of CAC, especially adjusted for the price hikes that we have done. If you also see, you know, our, our CAC was $39.3 in Q1 of FY 2023 on a spend of $2.7 million. We increased our spend to $3.1 million in Q2, and the CAC actually came down to $37.9. And in the current quarter, the CAC has actually come to $37.3 on an increased spend of $3.4 million.
So I think both these trends are very positive, right? We are increasing our marketing spends quarter on quarter, and at the same time, being able to optimize our CAC, which will also lead to margin expansion. So I think, overall, we are quite satisfied, with the way, things are playing out for Kiddopia, and are very hopeful that this growth will pick up pace in the coming quarters.
Great, thanks. So just to clarify, before I move on to my next question, should we building the same level of marketing spend, you know, going forward every quarter? Or would you increase or decrease it as you go along?
You know, we would like to increase it, provided, you know, we are within our guardrails of CAC, upper CACs. So I think, if the opportunity does arise and we are able to efficiently spend the money to acquire users, we will surely increase it.
Great. Now, my next question is on esports. So, you know, sequentially, the growth was not very strong, given, you know, Q3 is traditionally a seasonally strong quarter. And my understanding is, you can correct me if I'm wrong, is because last quarter was seasonally strong for the accessory business. So given that accessory business is not, you know, very margin accretive, there should be a strong margin expansion, which has not come through. So, if you can just explain me why the margins have still not gone up, and when can we expect margins to go back to historical levels of 6%-7% in this business?
Yeah. So I think, there are multiple things happening, here at NODWIN, which is kind of suppressing the margins in the interim period. One is, you know, even in this, Q3 quarter, we've seen revenues come from the gaming accessories business, as well as some of the new IP that we've launched, such as Playground, which remain today, margin neutral, I would say. So there's, you know, a significant growth come from those, areas, which have not contributed to margins. Now, the other aspect is, really speaking, you know, many of the real-world events are also coming back after a long time. And, you know, they will take, I think, a few quarters to get back completely up to speed in terms of efficiencies.
We have introduced new games in these events because of some of the games that kind of got banned earlier in the year. You know, we focused on new games and new development of IPs around that. So I think, that has also kind of, hurt the margins a bit. Our focus on NODWIN right now is to, you know, develop multiple businesses around that, putting the gamer in the center and make sure that we're able to, through that business, kind of cater to his needs on a 360-degree basis. So from our overall Nazara portfolio perspective, the way we are looking at NODWIN is, you know, to continue to drive market leadership in the key areas that we are operating in, while, you know, many of our other businesses right now focus on contributing to margins.
So I don't have immediate visibility on when margins on NODWIN are going to really come back to where they were or, you know, enhance. So I would not like to give any guidance. The last point here is also, you know, for addressing a lot of these areas that NODWIN has got into. NODWIN has been hiring some senior teams and, you know, key hires over there, which have also kind of, you know, added the costs on the team side to them. So I would think of these as medium to long-term investments, and we are very happy to support this business to continue to grow strategically for us.
Great, that's very helpful. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Jinesh Joshi from Prabhudas Lilladher. Please go ahead.
... Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I have a question on sports. I think recently, the government of India recognized the esports as a part of a multi-sport event. So basically, what is the implication here? I mean, will there be any budgetary support from the government here to train the players, or is this move basically just a veto so that more people take up professional gaming as a career option?
Yeah. Hi, Jinesh. So I think you know any step taken by the government to recognize esports is a highly positive step for us, right? I think the multi-sport recognition is just one step towards what we would really like to see esports recognized as a standalone sport on its own feet. And I think we will get this sooner or later, and this is a good step towards that. I think just categorizing and calling esports as part of a sport, right, allows a whole ecosystem to build around it, which includes professional athletes, better training, serious participation in global events, which then would lead to, you know, increase in fan base in India, which would mean increase in viewership, potentially helping us on media rights, et cetera.
So I think it's a whole ecosystem building, and this is certainly a step in the right direction, but there's a lot more we want to happen.
Sure, sir. So my second question is on OpenPlay. If I look at our MAU, they have declined from 27,000 odd in September to approximately 23,000 odd in December, and this is despite the fact that Google has now allowed a Rummy app to be listed on its Play Store. So is there any specific reason for this decline which you would want to highlight?
I think our focus has been on, you know, kind of, on OpenPlay, on, deep diving on our valuable customers and, really, enhancing their ARPU and setting our, you know, systems and our processes and our funnels right, so that as we scale our user base, you know, we are very efficient in our operations. The update on the Google Play really is, you know, it's a work in progress. We've launched our Google Play app. However, there was a lot of friction on the KYC process, which means, there's still some enhancements being done there for us to really, gain benefit of it. Early signs are very positive. We think that the quality of customers we are getting from Google Play, the ARPUs, you know, are much better.
We are recovering, you know, kind of 20% of our first-time depositor cost on Google Play app versus we normally, you know, might recover 10% in the first month when it's off Google Play. So we are very positive about this, but this hasn't gone mainstream yet for us. We're hoping that maybe by next quarter, we will really be able to scale up the Google Play opportunity and start, you know, showing better results from there.
Sure, sir. One last question, if I may. Sir, can you give us some color on how WildWorks has been doing, especially in terms of CPI? Because I think it had a subscriber base of about 100,000 with an ARPU of about $8-$8.5. So has there been any improvement here, like we have seen for Kiddopia? And any specific numbers you would like to give on marketing spend here as well?
You know, in WildWorks, I would say it's completely a work in progress right now. You know, we are trying to bring a lot of the learnings of Nazara to WildWorks. We are working very closely with the team. The first thing we did was, you know, bringing in someone senior in the data analytics team. There were a lot of fixing to be done in terms of how we are capturing the data. A lot of the data that we were capturing was not, earlier, was not accurate. So I think we have been kind of fixing the hygiene over there, but also creating a strong product roadmap that we feel will be, you know, valuable to the end consumer.
Lastly, we are also evaluating pricing strategy over there because WildWorks has not, you know, increased prices for a really long time, and we see a low-hanging opportunity there. So all in all, I would say there's still a lot of work going on, and therefore, a lot of the data points that we have or that we have shared in the past also, right, may not be the right reference point. I think we are hopeful that by next quarter, we will be able to show, you know, more accurate data over here, as well as positive momentum and traction. Overall, this quarter, contribution and revenues has been strong for us, and we've seen good growth. But underlying, we see a lot of opportunities where we can work on in a group.
We continue to be very excited about this opportunity, with Animal Jam being a fantastic IP, and we're very hopeful that, FY 2024, we will really see, you know, Animal Jam and WildWorks perform very well for us.
Sure, sir. Thank you so much, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have the next question in the line of Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks. Sorry, I got dropped earlier. Firstly, on the Kiddopia side of the business, since now the churn is stable, declining rather, despite the price hike and CAC is also getting optimized, now, what kind of growth one should see in the subscriber? What kind of anticipation one should build, going into this calendar or next fiscal? Any input on that would be helpful.
Yeah. But Rahul, it's a bit early for us to make forward, you know, guidance on that, because this is the first quarter where we've kind of come back on road. But like you rightly said, all the parameters are indicating, you know, a lot of potential, declining the cost per trial, increasing our pools, and reducing churn rate. The team is also doing a lot of work on the product side. So I think, it's not just a pricing strategy, but also the efforts that in the last year we have put in on the product, that has started to show some, you know, benefits. So I think, right now the guidance to the team is, let's not be in a large hurry to spike spends.
Let's just keep doing what we're doing with our guard rails on. As long as we are acquiring quality users at the right price that we are willing to pay, we can surely increase the, increase the, you know, amount of money that we are spending. Which, as you can see also in the last three quarters, every quarter we've gone from $2.7 million to $3.1 million to $3.4 million in this quarter. So you've seen about a 10% increase in spend every quarter, and we will try and continue to do that.
Right. And, on the profitability side, you know, some of this investment in the NODWIN and also the mix change that has happened, you said, difficult to gauge how these things will keep moving. In that light, will it be a better idea to share the NODWIN core business margin separately to understand how that business is shaping up, and either identifying the revenue and margin for OML, Wings, Playground, as a separate data? Probably that could give us a better idea. And also, any change in seasonality of this business that you foresee now, given that offline is also on, and now some of these businesses may not be as seasonal. So what should be the—how we should see the seasonality here in NODWIN?
Sure. So I think, two things, right? The business mix of what for NODWIN right now is, changing very rapidly quarter-on-quarter, because there have been multiple new businesses and new business lines that have been introduced. We would like to see it stabilize, you know, before we start, carving out and, you know, sharing individual line items, but shortly in the coming quarters, we will intend to do that. In terms of seasonality, I think, it's broadly the same. H2 will, you know, always, be more than the H1 in terms of, revenues. Although there will be some balancing because of the game accessories business, which has Q2 as the largest, you know, driver of revenues.
So I think it will normalize to a certain extent, but this October, the Q3 and Q4 is a time when most of the, you know, physical events also take place, because of the better weather, et cetera, in the country. So I think, broadly, the seasonality will still continue.
Right. Right. And, Animal Jam, I'm sorry, missed your comment. So when we see this margin and growth coming back into this business the way we would like it to?
You know, like I said earlier, we are very actively working with a team on multiple fronts, and I think, I would give it one or two quarters to stabilize before we have very clear visibility on growth. But the more we work on this product, the more we see, you know, low-hanging opportunities for ourselves. So we remain convinced that this is-- this was a great IP to buy, and there's a lot that Nazara will be able to do here. Hopefully by next quarter, I will give more visibility on more specifics around Animal Jam.
You're saying, for 1 or 2 quarter, probably the margin would be low and growth would be stable, and then probably some of the action that we are taking would fructify over the coming period?
Yeah, because, you know, we want to make sure that we get the hygiene right, that we have full grip on data, we have the right customer acquisition channels. Now we have completely given user acquisition of Animal Jam to Datawrkz, which is an internal team now starting to work very actively on. So I think the whole idea is before we start really scaling this business, we want to make sure we have a complete grip on all the levers of the business, and then we would like to do that. So I think by next quarter, we should be able to at least, you know, be very comfortable ourselves that we have, you know, all levers in place. We've kind of addressed all the low-hanging opportunities.
And then once we are satisfied with the, you know, the potential LTV, lifetime value, and the cost of customer acquisition across multiple channels, we will start scaling this business up.
Sure. That's very helpful. Lastly, if I can just squeeze in one, which is on the AdTech side of the business. Here we are seeing consistent growth, but margin is coming off. Is it because of some pricing pressure and given the macros we are in?
No, we've not seen pricing pressure, but I think a lot of new customers have been added. As new customers scale, we will see overall better margins. So I don't think it's much to do with pricing pressure. The company's grown fast. Introductorily, we, you know, we do better pricing for customers till they get to a certain scale. So I think that's what's being demonstrated on the margins.
8%-10% is the range that we should keep in our mind for this business?
At this point of time, yes. I think there will be many ways for us to optimize and increase these margins. We will focus on this in the coming year.
Okay. Okay, thank you. I think, you've done exceptionally well on the, gamified business side, and this metrics are very encouraging. Hope, you have a very great year forward. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Rahul.
Thank you. We have the next question on the line of Mukul Garg from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Please go ahead.
Thank you. I hope my audio is clear. Nitish, good morning. Again, like, you know, I think fairly, broad-based growth, and a good job this quarter. Had a couple of, you know, quick questions. First, a bit following up on, Rahul's comment on, on NODWIN. You know, is it, is it, possible to kind of give some sense of what was the core growth, in Q3? Because, Q3 historically is usually the strongest quarter, but this time you had Master Series in Q2, you had, accessory, you know, seasonality, which kind of played out, while Q3, NH7 and, you know, multiple other offline events also started. So how should we look at seasonality?
You know, Q4, again, in the past, has been the low season because of exams, and other, you know, kind of issues which, kind of act as a headwind. Has that been going away now, and will it be more broad-based?
Sorry, your last sentence kind of broke off. Can you just repeat that, Mukul?
So, with the, you know, kind of performance in the NODWIN business, be more broad-based than, you know, a Q3 heavy kind of a kind of impact, given the multiple events which will be there across the year in the offline model?
Yeah, I think, I think, more or less, yes. I would say, you know, Q4, for example, with more events will, you know, also do better. Q1, Q2 will also see better. So I think overall, like I was saying earlier as well, we will see more normalization across quarters. We still think, at least into FY 2024, Q2 will be a larger, larger, you know, share, but it, but the percentage may drop with the H2 versus H1, and the spends may normalize a bit. The mix, mix is rapidly evolving. We think, events will continue to grow, especially now with, as we were discussing earlier, there's a better recognition of esports. You will see much more, you know, audience coming in, much more players coming in.
So I think overall, we are very positive on physical events, online events, the media rights, as well as, you know, the other businesses that NODWIN has got into. Holistically, I think this business should continue to grow into FY 2024. At the right time, we will, Mukul, also focus on margins. It's not that we don't want to make margins on this business, and we will keep a strong eye over there and see whatever we can do, but at the right time.
No, I completely agree with you. Just a second part on, you know, following up on the recognition angle. SROs, you know, obviously there has been a lot of fear in the industry due to the kind of mixing up of RMG with esports. How receptive is government to kind of look at them separately and not, you know, do a mandatory, you know, your registration or, you know, validation of the users?
Yeah. I think, we are obviously engaging with the government and the entire industry is engaging with the government. I think a lot, a lot of the regulation right now is focused on where, you know, money in, money out is involved, right? And we usually focuses the entire activity or the regulatory activity on the skill-based, RMG side, and I think that's really the key focus. I think some better definition, comes out in the, you know, regulation once it's out, will be, good. But I don't see esports or our premium business, or other businesses impacted, you know, by this, regulation. I don't think they are the target at all.
Right. So you expect, you know, kind of, the regulations panel wants to come out a bit differently from the current clubbing?
Yeah. I mean, they put out a, you know, call to the public, looking for feedback, including the industry, and I'm sure they are incorporating, you know, reviewing all suggestions and, with the final guidelines, will address, you know, concerns that have been raised.
Sure. One clarification on Kiddopia. How should we see the flow-through of the price hike and the new users kind of coming into revenues? You know, will the average pass-through happen over a six-month period, or will it be a longer impact as the previous pricing kind of gets into revenues?
Yeah, I think, as you are seeing quarter- on- quarter, you know, there has been a increase in ARPUs. I think, over the next, couple of quarters, at least you will continue to see that because, you know, we've increased, you know, we took one price hike in the previous, quarter and one price hike in this quarter. So I think we've, you know, made some good 30% increase over there, which is surely going to play out. As new subscribers come in at higher price, this will. Therefore, if, you know, we, for example, aggressively scale up our marketing spend, and we're, let's say, able to raise our marketing spends, the ARPU will also raise faster because, the mix of the old users versus new users will change.
But, I think, trend-wise, we are absolutely in the right direction in Kiddopia.
Yeah, fine. Sorry, if I may take one last question on the premium side, that certainly there's not too much discussion happened on that. Your values and MAUs has been fairly stable there. Now, you know, I know the dynamics are not extremely favorable in that space, but you have been able to maintain a very high profitability there. Why not pour that back into, you know, higher advancements to drive growth, offline growth, given the pace at which the industry is growing?
Yeah, we are making many, many, you know, changes and enhancements in that product right now. And you're absolutely right. In the coming months, you know, we are very keen to increase our marketing spend and scale up the user base there. There are a lot of new updates that are going to be coming out after that. We are already starting to actually experiment with advertising. Again, we have Datawrkz set up a focus team to, you know, help us achieve that. And one of our targets is to see how we can really scale WCC to the next level and not remain kind of plateaued as it has been in the past.
Super. Great. Thanks a lot, Nitish, and all the best for the rest of 2023.
Thank you, Mukul.
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Deep Shah from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning. Thanks for the opportunity. Nitish, if you could just explain or rather kind of highlight some of the events which you plan to do in this year. So I see a slide in your presentation, but what are the games that we are looking to target and scale up, given that I don't think BGMI is coming back anytime soon. So one was that, that which games in India are we going to now target, or are we looking to scale them up, or create IPs? And are we looking at international events? Because some games have a large international audience also. Can we do that in the esports segment? That is my first question.
Sorry, your last line broke up. Can you just repeat that?
No, I, I'm saying that, say games like BGMI, where we have a good hold, they have a massive international audience also. So are we looking to host these events, outside India? Any plans on that, if you could just, share?
Yeah. So two things. I think, one is on what games are we focusing right now on, you know, New State has been one game that has done well. Valorant, I think there's a big opportunity, and the NODWIN team is doing, a lot around that. Interestingly enough, even in DreamHack, we saw a lot of success with online chess, so, we're also looking at that opportunity. So I think, we have many games, that we can, kind of play with. On the global opportunity, you know, we are evaluating and also trying to work with publishers to do international events with them on a larger scale. And perhaps those events, you know, could be also broadcast in India.
So I think that's, that's the line we are trying to kind of take on the games that are not very active in India today.
So, so yeah, thanks for that. But, if I can just ask a follow-up here. So, we've kind of been organizing international events already, maybe not standalone, but in partnership with others. So, is that the right assessment, or we were just, or we've not had international events done? How... I mean, what has been international presence in organizing IPs?
No, we have always been, you know, active in doing international events outside of India as well. We did, for example, even the PUBG events for South Asia in Q3 of FY 2023. So, it's not something new that we are going to do. We have always been active on it. We are doing it as we speak, and we supported Tencent in Dubai for PUBG. So I think, there is a lot of activity there and a lot of growth opportunity for us, there.
Right. And Nitish, secondly, on this real money gaming space, so yes, I completely buy your point that there is a lot of flux right now. But given that how polarized the space has become, where do you find our sweet spot is? Because cricket is completely dominated by one large player, and then I think they will try to enter in other sports also. What is that sweet spot that we are looking in, say, Rummy or create a platform? So what is kind of the blue sky scenario there?
Yeah. So I think obviously, you know, today's classic Rummy business that we have under OpenPlay, right? It's, you know, approximately INR 5 crore a month business, which from a RMG scale is extremely small. What we are really focusing on is building a very powerful platform. We brought in a new CEO in that business in the last quarter, who's also come in and worked a lot on the tools and the data that we are operating with, you know, really kind of enhancing the funnel that we operate in. So I think we have two thoughts here.
One is: How can we accelerate the growth of, the business, the existing business, by being more efficient, by being able to target users better, by being able to generate higher ARPOs, by taking advantage of the Google Play opportunity that is presented, in front of us, et cetera, right? There are many things we can do to kind of accelerate this core business. But at the same time, everything that we are doing to accelerate this core business, can that also become a launchpad for many other games, that we can drive alongside? So that's one thing. That's the organic part of, the RMG growth. The second is, I think, as over the next few months, as, both regulatory clarity emerges, as well as taxation clarity emerges.
We will not shy away from, you know, consolidating other other games and other players on this OpenPlay platform. Because I think, in this case, liquidity sharing, et cetera, could be very powerful. Cost efficiencies could be there, and we could actually create 1+1=3 . So I think scaling up RMG is very much on our mind, as this regulatory clarity is coming out, and we will see how we evolve this into FY 2024. In the meantime, organic growth is the strong focus for us. Hope it stands for insights.
Thank you. We have the next question on the line of Nitin Jain from Fairview Investments Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. So first of all, congratulations on the execution. My first question is on the overall business. So since the IPO, the company has maintained that, you know, it would be prioritizing growth over margin, but also make sure that the growth is profitable. But if you look at the consolidated numbers this quarter, and strip out the other income, we have actually made a loss at the PBT level. So my question is, like, going forward, how far would you be comfortable allowing the margins to dip to achieve growth? And my next two questions are on the gamified learning business. So the pleasant surprise this quarter has been the growth in the Kiddopia business.
Assuming that, you know, the decline in Kiddopia subscriber base has bottomed out now, does your revenue guidance for the year include a growth in the subscriber base? And regarding WildWorks, can you talk a little about the unit economics of WildWorks business? And whether we see any opportunity for price hikes here as well. Thank you.
Sure. Thanks, Nitin. I'll answer all three questions for you. The first one, I'm not sure I grasped properly, because our EBITDA was INR 30.6 crore at the consolidated level. And is not included in EBITDA. So, I'm not sure whether I misunderstood your question. I'll just answer the other two also, and then we can come back to the first, if you wish. The second one, in terms of Kiddopia, yeah, absolutely, we've grown 3.7% on our subscriber base this quarter, after many quarters of, you know, flattening out and some couple of quarters of decline. So I think we are very excited about seeing the growth coming back.
Given all the unit metrics are, you know, trending positively, we have encouraged the team to, you know, scale the spend and grow the subscriber base. So we should continue to see subscriber base growth. I won't be able to kind of, you know, put specific numbers there right now because it's the first quarter over, and we need to see how this is trending over the next quarter or two. In terms of WildWorks unit economics, like I said previously, there's a lot of work in progress, a lot of different things happening and a lot of moving parts. So I think it's a bit premature to get into a lot of specific unit economics of WildWorks.
But at the right time, once things are stable, we will start presenting almost exactly the same KPIs and unit metrics that we provide for Kiddopia, given that both businesses are very similar. Lastly, I very much think that there is a lot of potential to increase pricing in WildWorks. It's been untouched for maybe the last two, three years. And there are many different ways to do it, and it's all work in progress right now.
Okay, thank you. So just to clarify, my first question: so while we have been flat at the EBITDA level, so at the PBT level, if I strip out the other income, on its own, the business has, like, made a loss this quarter, so because of the significant margin decline. So if you can just clarify that, please.
Let me just open that page, one second. So our financials that... Look, I think there are two things here. One is on the EBITDA level, we are flat. That I think is okay for us. We've done INR 306 million or INR 30.6 crores EBITDA consolidated, versus INR 30.6 crores you know EBITDA on the previous quarter, year-on-year. Our thinking same, as long as we are going in the right strategic directions while maintaining you know profitability and cash flows, we are okay with it. I think one thing is on the fact, you must realize that we take a fairly large amortization of you know the acquisitions that we have done, which are non-cash amortization.
So I think, from a PBT perspective, that kind of colors it a bit. But, even then, I'm seeing, on my numbers, I'm seeing a PBT of INR 285 million or INR 28.5 crores; remove other income of INR 11.5 crores, it is still positive. So I'm not still very clear where you're seeing the loss.
Okay, I'll take it offline then.
Sure. Sure. Thank you.
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Ankit from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Hi, Nitish. Congratulations on a great set of numbers. So I have a couple of questions. First one on the unique wagerer count in the RMG segment, for this quarter, that, I mean, if you can give. Last quarter, it was around 27,700. I think this quarter you have not disclosed that in the presentations.
Sorry, your question is, why is the unique thing coming from-
Unique wagerers.
Yeah. Why that is declining?
Just the count of it.
I'm not getting your question.
Ankit, we can't hear you very well. If you could kindly go off the speakerphone and repeat your entire question.
Yeah, on the unique wagerer side, I mean, if you can just give the numbers of average monthly unique wagerers for the quarter, that number. Last quarter was around 27.7.
It's already in the presentation, 23,690.
Okay. And then second question on the AdTech front. So, AdTech is usually, this business is seasonal. Third quarter seems to be a seasonal quarter for all the businesses. So do you... In the fourth quarter, I mean, would that growth remain there, or what is the growth that you're targeting?
So, AdTech, you're right, October, December, because the AdTech, our AdTech business, right, has focused in the U.S., and October to December runs up into Christmas Day. So brands are spending the most during this, and then they drop off the spends in the first quarter of the year or the Q4 for us. The spend definitely drop off. So there is seasonality that builds up in Q3 and then normalizes in Q4. And you will see the same thing happen this year as well. But on an overall basis, we will continue to see a good growth year-on-year on the business.
Okay.
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Pranav from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello. Yeah, hi, am I audible?
Yeah.
Hello.
Yeah.
Yeah, just a quick question on Sportskeeda. So I think the revenue template for Sportskeeda could have been better, given the seasonality. And even the margin profile, when we compare on a year-over-year basis, they have declined a bit. So could you just give a sense of how you're seeing Sportskeeda and any takeaways with that were specific to this Q3 quarter?
Yeah. No, I think, you know, we continue to see good growth overall on Sportskeeda, and we're satisfied with that. The margins are... I think, we've, you know, also opened new sports, and we have kind of built teams on some new areas that we are investing in. So I think some of the margins are, you know, potentially will be slightly lower because of new investments that we are making in teams and content, et cetera. You can see our growth in terms of the average MAU rate, that has also steadily increased, even in this quarter, it's 76.9 million, up from 72.8 million. So, I think overall, it's a, it's a healthy business.
We continue to be very happy with it, and we continue to invest in new areas within that to see how we can drive growth for FY 2024.
Sure. Thank you.
Hi, this is Sudhir here. Nitish, can I just add a bit here?
Uh, please.
So I just want to make a point that on Sportskeeda, we also had a change in the management this quarter, as you know, with Porush stepping out and Ajay stepping in as the CEO, stepping up. And with that, there's also been a lot of new ideas and new directions in which we're trying to grow this business. And therefore, there's a bit of investment which goes along with that, and that's reflecting already in terms of the MAUs and so on. But over time, I think it will start showing in the margins as well. Just wanted to add that point. Thanks.
Thanks.
Thank you. That was the last question. I would now like to hand it over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you, everyone, for all the questions today and for listening in. We look forward to continuing with our work and coming back to you in the coming quarter with good numbers and all the strategies ahead for FY 2024. Thank you again.
Thank you. On behalf of Elara Securities Private Limited, that concludes the conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.