Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the full Q FY 22 earnings conference call of NTPC Limited, hosted by Batlivala and Karani Securities India Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rajesh Majumdar from Batlivala and Karani Securities India Private Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah, hi. Good evening and a warm welcome to everyone. We have with us the NTPC management to present to us the Q4 and FY 2022 earnings call, headed by Mr. A.K. Gautam, Director, Finance. I shall hand over the proceedings to Mr. A.K. Gautam, and then he can take us forward from there. Over to you, Mr. Gautam.
Thank you, Rajesh. Yeah. A very good evening to everybody. I, A.K. Gautam, Director, Finance, welcome all of you to the Q4 FY22 conference call of NTPC Limited. NTPC continues to deliver phenomenal performance and support the nation by ensuring uninterrupted supply of power. I have with me Sri Ramesh Babu V., Director, Operations, Sri Chandan Kumar Mondol, Director, Commercial. I also have with me other key members of the NTPC team. Today, the company has announced the audited financial results for the FY22, along with financial results for Q4 FY22. The key performance highlights for the financial year and quarter ended 31st March 2022 have also been disclosed on both the stock exchanges. Operational highlights of FY22. During FY22, NTPC has added 3,372 MW capacity to its portfolio.
Commercial capacity of 4,032 MW, including 502 MW capacity from renewable sources, was added in FY 2022. The commercial capacity of NTPC has now become 64,597 MW on a standalone basis and 68,302 MW for the group as on March 31, 2022. NTPC group generated 361 billion units and recorded highest ever annual generation in FY 2022, as compared to 314 billion units in FY 2022, an increase of 15%. NTPC standalone gross generation in FY 2022 is 299 billion units as compared to 271 billion units in the corresponding previous year, registering an increase of 10%. NTPC group recorded highest day generation of 1.22 billion units on March 16, 2022.
During FY 2022, PLF of coal-based stations of NTPC was 70.74% as against the national average of 58.76%, thereby maintaining a spread of almost 12%. For FY 2022, three coal stations of NTPC, which Korba, Talcher and Rihand, were among the top 10 performing stations in the country in terms of PLF. NTPC group, being a leader in the power sector, has a strong commitment towards renewable energy and would be targeting RE capacity of 60 GW by FY 2032. NTPC has diversified into producing energy through cleaner and greener sources such as hydro, wind, solar and other green hydrogen solutions. Company has also forayed into variety of business areas, including fuel cells, e-mobility and waste to energy. NTPC group has already commissioned 1,852 MW of RE projects under EPC mode till FY 2022.
3,440 MW of RE projects, including ongoing projects of NTPC REL, are presently under construction. Further bids of 2,830 MW have been won. During the period, we have suffered losses due to grid restrictions and fuel supply. The generation loss due to grid restriction in FY 2022 was 97 billion units as compared to 122 billion units in the previous year. The generation loss on account of fuel supply constraint was 7 billion units in FY 2022. Now I will touch upon status of fuel supply. During the FY 2022, materialization of coal against ACQ was 92.83% as against 86.72% in FY 2021. Coal supply during FY 2022 was 195.63 million metric tons, including 2.47 million metric tons of imported coal.
The coal supply during the corresponding previous year was 170.24 million metric ton, including 0.92 million metric ton of imported coal. NTPC has registered a growth of over 27% in the production from its captive coal mines. Total coal production of 14.02 million metric ton was reported during FY 2022, as against 11 million metric ton in FY 2021. Cumulative expenditure of INR 7,963.66 crore has been incurred on the development of coal mines till 31 March 2022. Now I will update you on various other financial activities. Total income of NTPC for FY 2022 is INR 1,20,042.43 crore, as against corresponding previous year total of INR 1,03,552.71 crore, registering an increase of 15.92%.
PAT for FY 2022 is INR 16,111.42 crore as against INR 13,769.52 crore in FY 2021, registering an increase of 17.01%. Total income of the group for FY 2022 is INR 1,34,994.31 crore, as against corresponding previous year total income of INR 1,15,546.83 crore, registering an increase of 16.83%. PAT for the group for FY 2022 is INR 16,960.29 crore, as against corresponding previous year PAT of INR 14,969.40 crore, registering an increase of 13.30%. The performance of our JV and subsidiaries has been outstanding in FY 2022.
Our subsidiaries have earned profit of INR 1,946.78 crore in FY 2022, as compared to INR 1,737.60 crore in corresponding previous year, registering an increase of 12%. The share of NTPC in JV profit has increased by 49% from INR 683.87 crore in FY 2021 to INR 1,020.13 crore in FY 2022. During the FY 2022, we have accounted dividend income of INR 2,134.34 crore from our subsidiaries and joint venture companies, as against INR 1,274.19 crore received against during FY 2021. For FY 2022, the board has recommended final dividend of INR 3 per share at a share price of INR 10 per share, subject to the approval of shareholders in the ensuing general meeting.
As you are aware, interim dividend for FY 2022 at the rate of 40% of the paid-up share capital, that is ₹4.4 per share, has already been paid in February 2022. The regulated equity as on 31 March 2022 for NTPC standalone and group was INR 70,890 crore and INR 91,054 crore respectively. We expect our regulated equity to grow at a double-digit CAGR over coming years based on the capacity already under construction, making NTPC a compelling investment pick. Gross block and capital work in progress of NTPC Limited. The gross block has increased by INR 26,833.54 crore to INR 2,38,390.91 crore as at 31 March 2022.
On group level, gross block has increased by INR 35,431.48 crore to INR 3,08,125.18 crore, mainly on account of capitalization of new units. CWIP stood at INR 68,598.66 crore as at 31st March 2022, as compared to INR 75,343.60 crore as at 31st March 2021. At the group level, CWIP stood at INR 91,025.21 crore as at 31st March 2022, compared to INR 97,404.16 crore as at 31st March 2021. The ratio of gross block to CWIP is 3.48 in FY 2022 as compared to 2.81 in FY 21.
We expect growth to continue further forward and believe the turnaround from CWIP to gross block would be quicker because of greater mix of renewable capacity having a shorter gestation period. Now, fund mobilization. During the FY 2022, the company has signed a syndicated term loan of $750 million with a door-to-door maturity of 10 years on 25th March 2022 with a consortium of banks. The loan is first SOFR, secured overnight financing rate, based floating rate of loan. During FY 2022, NTPC Renewable Energy Limited has signed a term loan of INR 500 crore with Bank of India and received a sanction for total term loan of INR 2,070 crore.
Average cost of borrowing for FY 2022 is 5.94% as compared to 6.24% in FY 2021. In FY 2022, we have incurred a CapEx of INR 21,035.87 crore on a standalone basis and total group CapEx of INR 34,490.55 crore. The capital outlay for FY 2023 on a standalone basis has been estimated at INR 22,454 crore for NTPC. Now, certain highlights about the commercial function of the company. During FY 2022, NTPC has realized INR 1,16,148 crore, which is almost 100, more than 100% of the bill amount. During FY 2022, INR 8,800.32 crore bill were discounted with the bank as against INR 18,323.60 crore discounted during FY 2021.
Further, the trade receivables are maintained at a level of less than 45 days of sales. Further, I would like to list few other highlights. NTPC Renewable Energy Limited has obtained the highest domestic credit rating of AAA within 1 year of its incorporation. NTPC Renewable Energy Limited has been listed, have been issued letter of intent from Government of Rajasthan for development of 10 GW RE parks, public projects in Rajasthan. Also, it has signed a joint venture agreement with Damodar Valley Corporation to set up ultra-mega renewable energy power park and projects won the BEST Award 2022. These were some of the highlights I wanted to share before we begin the question and answer session. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles.
The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir, and congratulations on a good set of numbers. My first question is,
Please go ahead with your question. Your line is now unmuted.
Hi. Can you hear me? Hello? Yeah. Hi. Am I audible?
Yes, you are.
Hello. Hi. Good morning. Good evening, sir. Congratulations. Good set of numbers. My first question is, where are we in the journey of monetization of our renewables portfolio? Are you reasonably confident of completing some transaction in this fiscal?
As you know that, we have already created wholly-owned subsidiary of NTPC Limited, that is NTPC Green Energy Limited. Under its umbrella, the companies like NTPC Vidyut Vyapar Nigam, NTPC Renewable Energy Limited will be there. In this company, post getting clarification from the Ministry of Power regarding taxation issues, renewable assets which are lying in NTPC will be transferred to this company. On getting transferred to this company, they, we will be going for either the IPO directly in the market or through some strategic investor. Yes, we are planning to have certain amount of monetization during the FY 2022-2023. Only NVVN will not be there. Director Commercial just confirmed that NVVN will not be under this umbrella.
Understood, sir. My second question is, given the supply demand situation, do you think there'll be some revival in thermal capacity addition, and we will have some role to play in the interim till the time the energy transition, you know, goes through?
Okay. I will ask my ED, i.e., EPN, CPN to please address this question.
We are going to add approximately another 500 MW of power in the days to come to augment the power requirement of the country.
Hello?
Hello. Yeah.
My question was, yeah, are we going to see some sort of revival in thermal capacity addition given the shortages? Do you think we'll need to put up some more capacity in medium term?
I think.
Yes.
He has already given your question answer, that we will be going to set up another 6 GW.
Yes.
-of capacity, in respect of thermal power stations.
It is below or this, below or it will be, you know, pure thermal capacity?
It will be brown thermal capacity addition.
That he's talking about carbon capture here, that is also.
Yeah.
Sir, we have just floated a tender to add 2x660 MW at our own Talcher power station. That is one, that is for certain. That is going to come. It will be the thermal capacity only.
Apart from that, let me update. Singrauli is 1600 MW, Lara 1600 MW, and Darlipali 660 MW.
Understood, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you. All the best. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Punit Gulati from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you so much. My first question is with respect to the, you know, quarter-on-quarter improvement in profitability while the capacity addition both was limited to about 300 MW. Can you talk about what has really driven this growth?
Okay. Repeat the question, I could.
I could not get. Can you repeat your question, please?
Yes. Saying your quarter-on-quarter profitability has been quite impressive, INR 41 billion going up to INR 56 billion on standalone basis. While the capacity addition for the quarter was only about 294 or 300 MW. What has driven this earnings growth?
Actually, you are talking about the profit after tax now?
Yes. Yes.
You know that in the previous quarter, we made certain tax adjustments under the Vivad se Vishwas Scheme, which had led to a reduced taxation of around INR 2,000 crores in the previous year.
Okay.
In addition, I would like to add one more point. The capacity addition that you are talking about being added in the fourth quarter, we also have to take into account the capacity added during the entire year if you are comparing quarter-over-quarter.
There are certain CERC orders which have been received during the quarter, third quarter.
Okay. What would have been the impact of those?
I think, in fact, you can, just a minute, please. Quarter-to-quarter. Previous year sales is around INR 821 crores.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. That is there. Other items you can obtain from Aditya.
Okay. The second is also, if I look at the standalone profit versus the consolidated profit, it seems the subsidiaries were a negative number. Can you help clarify what really happened in this quarter?
It is mainly because in the standalone financial statement, we accounted for dividends, which on a consolidated basis was eliminated.
Okay. Copy. What would be the profitability by subsidiaries elements?
Huh?
Just a minute, please. Let me quickly check.
Yearly, huh?
Yes.
Profit after tax from the subsidiary companies is INR 1,946.77 crore as against INR 1,737.60 crore in the corresponding previous year.
Oh, 17. Oh, got it. That's it. Thank you so much, and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahul Modi from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. A couple of questions. What would be the bidding pipeline which you are expecting over the next 6-12 months in renewables that would come up? Secondly, how is the solar module market currently? Because I believe now with ALMM coming in, we've got limited suppliers. How do you see the supplies panning out? Thank you.
Rahul, Mohit will answer this question.
Yeah. Good afternoon, Rahul. Bidding pipeline is actually guided more by SECI and MNRE rather than by us. Our expectation is that they might go ahead with bidding of around at least 10 GW in the balance period of the year, if not more. On the solar module side, yes, the supply is constrained because all these factors have come together, ALMM plus BCD and overall inflation in the prices. There is inflation pressures there. But everyone is hoping for some kind of, you know, grandfathering or something else which will relieve this, so that's what we supply as such.
Sir, is it causing any delays as such? Do you think you are more or less comfortable in terms of timeline?
Some of our existing projects will face little bit of delays, but not only because of modules, but also because of GIB issues.
Right. Okay. Perfect. That's very helpful. Just last question, broadly on coal availability, which obviously we're reading a lot in the headlines, but how is our coal availability, you know, currently and on the imports that we are targeting? Thank you.
Mr. Babu, Head of Operations, will be clarifying.
Right now we have around 12 days coal available with us. As per the government guidance, we're also importing coal. We have already placed some orders, and some coal has also already started coming to the port, and we are shifting them to our stations.
Sir, what would be the price of imported coal? Just to understand the trend that's coming.
Price of import coal is actually depend on the index at the time of loading.
Right.
It varies. When the index goes high and we need to pay more of index, less will be there. It will link to the index.
Right.
Right now the index is around $40.
Okay. Thank you very much, and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Subhadip Mitra from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, and thank you for the opportunity. My first question is if you could please tell us what is the adjusted PAT number for fourth quarter and full year FY 2022?
For the fourth quarter it is INR 4,559.98 crore as against INR 3,831.01 crore in the corresponding previous quarter.
Okay. For the full year, sir?
Full year it is INR 14,700.99 crore as against INR 14,218.07 crores.
It's 14,218 for the last year versus 14,700 for the current year.
Correct. 14,701.
Okay, understood. Secondly, just to get an update on the capacity addition that we are looking at. I think, if I remember the numbers correctly after the last call, we are looking at about close to 4 GW of thermal additions in FY 2023 and a similar number for 2024, with maybe another 1.2 GW of renewables. If you can just give us an update as to, you know, how much you're seeing getting added in 2023 and 2024, and if possible, split that between thermal and renewable.
Yeah. Actually, we already told that we'll be adding approximately 6 GW of thermal. Also that, for your question, which is pertaining to 2022, 2023 specifically, we'll be adding 5 GW . As for 2023, 2024, we'll be adding approximately 6 GW.
If I heard you correctly, sir, you're saying that we are adding about 5 GW in FY 2023 and 6 GW in FY 2024. If possible, if you can split this up between the thermal and the renewable part, how much of FY 2023 5 GW is thermal and renewable and same for 2024?
In this financial year 2022-23. 2023, which has 5 GW, renewables will be approximately 1.5 GW. For 2023-24, it'll be the renewables will be approximately 950 GW. 950 MW or 9 GW.
Right. 950 MW in FY 2024 and 1.5 GW in FY 2023. Correct?
Yeah.
Okay, understood. Lastly, you know, a question with regard to you know, one of the earlier questions where we talked about some of the renewable projects which may see delays because of GIB issues and also because of the modules. Is it possible, sir, to quantify that how much of our capacities are getting impacted by GIB?
As of now, Sudeep, I think roughly 900 MW is impacted by GIB. Because we have to get the permission from the committee appointed by the Honorable Supreme Court. We are in that process. That's about 900 MW.
Sir, is this 900 MW included in any of the targets for FY 2023 or 2024, or these are not included?
Yeah. That is included. In fact, the FY 2024 number would be actually higher. Anyway, so that is included in this, we are expecting to get the clearance in the next few months.
Understood. In case there is, let's say, a worst case scenario of further delay that happens, with regard to the Supreme Court, rulings, then the 2024 target number could get impacted. Am I right in understanding that?
No, I don't get it. Because if there's a delay, the applications have already been filed. If the delay happens, these capacities get shifted to next year. 2024 doesn't seem to be impacted.
Yeah. Maybe I'm not understanding it correctly. I just wanted to understand that this 900 MW or 950 MW that we are saying, renewables which we are targeting for FY 2024, does that number get impacted in case these projects get delayed further?
No. It is again speculation, Sudeep, because, you know, when we get the approval and all these things, as of now these numbers are what about the projects which under construction. Anything which is being awarded in this year will obviously either come next year or the year after that. That is expected not to be impacted by the GIB. This 900 MW would largely be. We expect that mostly to be commissioned this year only.
Okay. Understood. These are targeted basically for FY23. That's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anuj Upadhyay from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Yep. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. One clarification. The number which you quoted that 5 GW-6 GW capacity addition, is on a consolidated basis or standalone. Am I right, sir?
Yes.
Hello?
Yes, please.
Fine. Thanks, sir. Sir, any deemed under recovery? Can you quantify the deemed under recovery which we have booked for the current fiscal? Was this largely because of the fuel supply issue or some other reason?
Yeah. During the current financial year it is INR 453 crores as against INR 600 crores in the previous year.
Okay. Thank you, sir. Two things, sir, again. One, the status on the Khavda, where exactly we are positioned, when we expect the project to get commissioned out there in the phase one. Secondly, you also mentioned about the 10 GW of RE where we are signed LOI from the Rajasthan. Any timeline by when we expect to commission? Will it happen in a phase-wise and over what period of time the entire 10 GW will get commissioned?
The Khavda we intend to start the work in the next one and a half months or so, and the timeline is to commission close to around 2.5 GW in the next 30 months. That's the timeline as of now. As for the capacity. You got it?
That's it. 2.5 GW over next 18 months, right?
Yeah, yeah. About 2.5 GW in the next 30 months.
Okay.
We intend to start the work in the next one and a half months.
One and a half months.
The Rajasthan part ten is still under discussion. In fact, we have had a couple of meetings with the Rajasthan officials and they have started identification of the land which they will offer to us. That is still too premature to talk about in terms of the capacity and timelines.
Okay, fine, sir. One final clarification on this, Rajasthan, the 10 GW deal, sir. Does this also fall under the area where we are facing GIB issues or is altogether different land parcel?
No, I think you hit the nail on the head. That is exactly the reason Rajasthan Government is taking a bit more time to acquire the land because they don't want it to be covered under the GIB-affected area.
Fair enough, sir. Thank you, sir. That's it from my end.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Good evening and thanks for the opportunity. My first question is for Mohit, sir, on renewables. You know, earlier you had expressed that NTPC would have a 15 GW renewable capacity by FY 2025. If you could also give us the number on the operational RE capacity of NTPC today. What is in standalone? What is in subsidiary? And what is the total size of the portfolio, including under construction and under implementation capacity?
That's too many questions in one go. I am not sure whether I remember all of them, but okay, sir. We have, I think it was already mentioned by Director Finance in his opening remarks. We have 1,852 MW which is under operation today. In fact, that number got increased by 35 MW just today because we started work on another capacity. That is the number we have today. Your initial question regarding 15 GW, obviously, this discussion was when the impact of COVID had not been factored in. To that extent, we expect this to be a delay of about 12 months in achieving this capacity, because there have been, you know, headwinds in terms of getting the work done and all these issues have been there. But we are not significantly delaying from what we had committed upfront.
What was the third part?
Yeah. What is the total size of your renewable portfolio today? So we know the operational RE capacity. What is the size of the under construction portfolio right now and the under implementation or, you know, whatever you call it?
Operational capacity is 1,857.
Yeah.
Under construction, where the work is already in progress is about 3,400.
Okay.
We have about 2,800 MW which is under tendering. That is pipeline as of now.
Okay. 2,800 MW under tendering. Sir, you had mentioned that there was this 15 GW sort of expression of interest for module sourcing. You know, how has that progressed? Has that got curtailed because the module prices have been elevated and there are uncertainties?
Yeah, you're absolutely right. We had come out with a request since the module prices have been very high. We, in fact, intended to go ahead with the long-term sourcing of the module. That's something which is held back as of now, because we are waiting for some more normalization in the module prices, because even the bidders are not very confident to offer a price which they will be able to hold for some time.
Fair enough. You know, when it was mentioned earlier that 6 GW of new coal-based capacity is going to get added. I'm just wondering that, you know, with so much, you know, global opposition to addition of new coal-based capacity, which banks in India are going to fund the loan for these projects? You know, overseas banks, I understand, you know, overseas funding will be very difficult for new thermal projects.
I think we will get the funding.
What is the source of funding? I'm just trying to understand.
Source of funding would be from domestic sources, and we will also try for bonds from the interest market.
Last question. What was the late payment surcharge in FY 22 versus FY 21? What was the PLF incentive in FY 22 versus FY 21?
Surcharge in FY 2022 is INR 754 crores as against INR 2,316 crores in the corresponding previous year.
Sure.
If you want the quarter numbers also, it is during the current quarter, it is INR 161 crores as against INR 620 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year.
Okay. PLF incentive?
Incentive is almost similar with the year, INR 386, INR 399. INR 386 in current year as against INR 399 in the previous year. In quarter also almost similar, INR 69 in current quarter versus INR 45 in the previous quarter.
Thank you. Sir, what is the figure of overdue receivable at the end of FY 2022? That's my last question.
Mondol Sir, overdue receivables.
Yes.
Overdue as on thirty-first March, it was INR 4,274 crores.
Okay. This figure was about, what, INR 60 billion as of FY 2021?
Last year, what was it, Mondol?
It was 5,660.
5,000. Thank you so much, sir. I wish you all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepika Mundra from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir. Sir, just two questions. Firstly, on captive mining, what is the outlook in terms of potential for next few years in terms of output and CapEx? And secondly, for the gas-based power plants, can you walk us through the outlook for those in terms of regulated equity recognition?
Well, captive mining, I can only tell that last year our captive production was 14.1 million tons. FY 2022-23, we have a target of producing approximately 26 million tons, which is more than 80% increase in the capacity. FY 2024, right now I will not be able to tell you how much you will be doing it because we are in the process of awarding a new contract, new MOUs to our mines like Chatti-Bariatu and Talaipalli. Also if it is awarded, definitely it will be more than this capacity of 26 million tons what we are planning this year. What was your second question?
Gas-based.
Gas-based. Gas-based today, right now, gas price is very high. Definitely it will be very difficult for running the gas plant, because most of the their ECR may not be sustainable. They may not come under this merit order dispatch. But still we will continue to have the fixed charges because, except for few capacity which, some of the DISCOMs have already surrendered, and that capacity is approximately 1,000 MW out of the total capacity of.
Six.
6,000 MW capacity and 1,000 MW has been surrendered by various DISCOM. We are trying to allocate this capacity to other DISCOMs if they are willing. Probably government is also going to take certain steps because of the power shortage in the current scenario. Therefore our government has already approached GAIL to arrange the best possible gas rate on which I think so most likely that POSOCO is going to run this capacity on emergency basis for the grid security.
Understood, sir. Thank you. Sir, would you be able to give us the total revenue for the renewable 8 MW projects which have been operational so far for the past year?
I think right now it is not available. You can obtain this information from Aditya Dar separately.
Okay, sir. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aniket Mittal from SBI Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Yes, ma'am. Thank you for the opportunity. Just a couple of questions from my side. Firstly, just to understand on this, incremental, brownfield capacity addition that you're doing in Singrauli, Lara and Talaipalli, what stages of discussion have been? Has, like, any of the DISCOMs come forth, to ask you for these incremental capacities? And have you tied up PPAs for these incremental capacities?
This addition we have already indicated you that 6 GW we are thinking. So far as PPA is
So far as PPA is concerned, for Singrauli and Lara, we are already having the consent for this PPA. We already have it.
Okay. Who are the DISCOMs with which we are doing this incremental, 3.2 GW?
In case of Singrauli it is Southern Region, and in case of Lara it is Western Region.
We've got a go ahead in terms of the PPA. These will be 25-year PPAs?
It will not be a problem, but there are other, I mean, we still have to have the environment clearance in case of Lara. I think Singrauli is already there.
Already available, sir. Yeah.
No, not in terms of fuel source. I was asking like in terms of Singrauli and Lara. So you're saying that the PPAs, we've got a go ahead from the discoms. These will be 25-year PPAs.
It will be 25-year PPA, that's right.
As per your estimates then, when do you see Talcher, Singrauli and Lara then coming on board? Any rough timelines that you have in mind for when you can set up this incremental 5 GW?
Last year already NIT is done. I think.
The investment approval is happening about August and the schedule is of 50 months.
Sorry, I could not hear you. Could you repeat that?
What he is telling is in case of Talcher, which is 1,320 MW power station, that investment approval likely to happen in August. Thereafter for completion it will be taking four years' time.
Okay. In case of.
As far as Lara and Singrauli is concerned that NIT is yet to take place. That NIT needs to-
Sir, the
Yes, sir. Singrauli and Lara, they are under continuing, means active discussion.
Okay. That's another discussion. Okay, fair. One question on the CapEx front. If I look at the NTPC renewable energy entity itself, could you tell me what would be the CapEx for NTPC RE over the next three years? Split that up between the solar capacity and green hydrogen, please.
I think what we can share with you right now is the tentative numbers for the next year, because beyond that, a lot of things are linked to the projects which have acquired investment approval and the working of FE.
Mm. So-
Next year, tentatively, we are looking at a number of about INR 8,000 crore for the next year.
INR 8,000 crores for
Next year, meaning this, the current fiscal.
Okay. Thank you. Just to understand on the green hydrogen front, because there are some pilot projects that we have started, I think, undertaking and ordering at a couple of our plants. I think Simhadri is one. We're also, I think, looking to do it one of our other plants as well. If you could just, you know, highlight what is the sort of CapEx that you're looking to put over there. Any other incremental plants where we are trying to develop this on a pilot basis?
Yes. CapEx, no?
No.
Plans.
Okay. Plans.
Okay, plans. You're right. We talked about Simhadri earlier. Other one was mentioned in the opening remarks by Aditya Pradhan. We have signed an agreement with Gujarat Gas to blend hydrogen in the natural gas, which they will supply as piped natural gas in the Kawas township of NTPC. The other pilot which is already underway is at Vindhyachal, where we are doing green hydrogen plus carbon capture and convert that into green methanol. That's the third pilot, for which partly the work has started. Fourth of course is the mobility pilot for which we intend to place the orders in the next two months, yeah, the next two months or so for the hydrogen buses as well as hydrogen filling stations and all these things.
That as of now is the broad thing.
Okay, sir. In general, what will be the CapEx related to these pilot projects right now?
These are basically pilot projects and CapEx numbers. Of course, we can compile it separately and maybe have it sent. Yes, it can be given separately.
Sure. That works. Thank you for taking the question.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sarit Maheshwari from Edelweiss. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, you mentioned about 6 GW of brownfield capacity. What could be the likely CapEx over here?
It will be around 11 GW, INR 60,000 crore. Around INR 60,000 crore.
INR 60,000 crore. Okay. Sir, that works out to be close to INR 10 crore per megawatt. Since these are brownfield, you know, what is it actually causing such a high cost? Because I believe greenfield is more closer to 8-10.
It is because we have also to clear the areas in the greenfield project to make them available for generation of new powerhouse. We have to shift certain assets also. I told you approximate expenditure. It is not necessary it will be 10 GW, it can be nine also. eight or nine. They will involve FGD.
Yeah. One is FGD CapEx. Okay. Sir, safe to say that all of them will be on the regulated also, only regulated, right?
Yeah.
Okay. Yeah, that's it from my side, sir. Thank you.
Thank you, Sarit Maheshwari.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhineet Anand from Emkay Global. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Two things. First, I wanted to know on the thermal side, what is the amount of capacity that is going out of PPA in 2023, 2024, 2025, or a cumulative number, if you can give the next three years.
I think at some point of time, DISCOM wanted that they will be exiting. Now they are asking, approaching us for the capacity, if anything is available. Unfortunately, NTPC does not have a single megawatt available to be given to anybody. We don't think in another 4-5 years there will be any question of exiting thermal capacity from, by any DISCOM.
The gas power plant that you talked about, I think 1,000 out of the 65,000 that we have, those can be at risk?
Well, yes. Risk is only there we may not be getting the corresponding ROE from that proposed station. Nothing other, otherwise that ROE and RONW will be very minimal. These are all old power station already. We have recovered the depreciation, et cetera. As such, government is also rethinking how to run these gas-based power plants. They are in active discussions.
Sure. Secondly, sir, on the FGD side, majority of the orders have been given. If you can give a ballpark number in the next 1 -2 years when everything, all this, FGD being installed, what could be the incremental CapEx from NTPC side on just on the FGD that would have been done?
Yes, sir. Yeah. For NTPC standalone, we are targeting approximately INR 3,400 crores for this financial year and approximately INR 4,000 crores for the next financial year.
I mean, these are the CapEx that you would be doing, right?
Yeah.
What I was also trying to understand, cumulatively, what is the spend on FGD that you would have done? Because that will then come under our regulated part, right?
It is INR 29,330 crores.
All this by 25, I presume, would be spent, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Thanks, sir. Those were my questions. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Rajesh Majumdar for closing comments. Mr. Rajesh, can you hear me?
Hello?
Yes, sir.
Hello?
You are on echo.
Okay. Yeah. Thank you ladies and gentlemen for a very interactive session, and thank you to the management of NTPC for conducting this session for us. I wish all the participants goodbye, and thank you once again for attending the NTPC Q4 and FY 22 earnings call. Thank you very much, everyone.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you. On behalf of Batlivala and Karani Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.