Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Nuvama Wealth Management Limited Q2 FY2026 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ashish Kehair, Managing Director and CEO. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the quarter two earnings call. We really want to thank everyone for joining us, especially on a holiday. As always, I have with me my colleague Bharat, our Group CFO and Head of Strategy, the SGA team, our Investor Relation Advisors. I'll begin by summarizing the quarter and also share a bit of perspective on the market as to how we see it and the business outlook. Bharat can then take you through the detailed numbers, and then we can jump into the Q&A section. Just summarizing the results very quickly, we had a resilient Q2 performance despite the volatility and loss of that one large client. I think this reflects the strength of the overall diversified platform, which actually works in our advantage, especially when one of the businesses is going through a rough phase.
I think the others are able to contribute, and we are back in the game. We were able to capture flows across asset classes in our wealth businesses, and we also saw strong synergies between wealth and asset management, especially in our commercial real estate fund. I'll talk a bit about that when I'm on the asset management section as to how the two are working really well together. Lastly, I think new client acquisition across all businesses was very, very strong, including asset services, which is why I think the recovery there has been stronger than what we had expected. Revenues overall for H1 grew by about 10%, and growth across most businesses except core capital markets, which is institutional equities and investment bank.
Even in the investment bank, except the large M&A deal which we did last year, which was in the public domain, the Pasami deal, there is growth if you remove that. Profit grew by about 8% year- on- year, and ROE stands nearly at 29%. On the overall macro, I think Indian economy remains steady and resilient, supported by the strong domestic demand. Post GST, I think the demand is really working well and has been able to counterbalance a lot of impact that was happening through tariffs. Now I'm told that even tariff is on the verge of being closed out. I think the future looks better than what we have seen for the first six months. On the regulatory side, in my view, both SEBI and RBI are following an approach of, I mean, disciplined pragmatism.
They are bringing in reforms which may look a bit tough in the short run, but I think in the long run, it will have a genuinely, I think, multiplier effect on the overall wealth management, asset management, capital market, insurance businesses, which I think is good. Yes, short term, there'll be some strain in the new announcements that are coming. RBI, on the other hand, on what we saw, which they have done with banks. Specifically loosening up the capital markets exposure, which is, I think, really in line with the changing market trends. Hopefully, they will follow it up with NBFCs also, is what our view is. Let's wait and watch. In that side. In fact, even SEBI, we are reasonably pleasantly surprised on the pragmatism which they are displaying now.
I think all in all, the regulatory tonality has undergone a significant change, I would say, in the last 12 months. They are able to balance both the need for regulation and being contemporary and changing with the need of the times, and also enabling an environment which will help businesses grow faster. Coming to our businesses, starting with Nuvama Wealth and one of the key focus areas which we've been saying for the last four years now, which is managed products and investment solutions, I think numbers speak for themselves. The asset base grew by about 28%-30%, depending on which starting point you look at, and the revenues grew by about 67% year- on- year.
It's a clear reflection of the momentum that is getting built there, and also the conscious and deliberate focus of building that part and treating broking completely as a product, which is now less than, I think, 10%-11% of the overall revenues. This quarter, in the MPIS, we saw a reasonable amount of flows across the spectrum: managed products, alternates, fixed income. I think all the limbs were performing very, very well. It's now about 58% of our total revenues for this segment. On technology front, I think this business, as we've always maintained, gives the highest bang for the buck because you're dealing with a large population of salesforce and a distributed geographical presence with a large number of clients. Consistency, efficiency, any kind of improvement in whichever part of the value chain you see in this business, I think technology acts as a huge multiplier.
On the client side, we've made significant strides and advances across the value chain. Whether it is investing or analytics or reporting, I think it'll now be best in class in the industry for this segment. We now give family-level consolidated reporting. When I say consolidated, it's truly consolidated. It covers products like AIF insurance, general insurance, over-the-counter fixed income, unlisted assets, execution reporting, IRR computation at family level. I mean, the convenience to be able to see it on both the mobile app and on the web platform, I think is industry-leading in this segment. We've done a lot of work on this also, on, let's say, the delivery of, I would say, advice to clients where, again, the objective is personalization at scale because you're dealing with a large set of people. You don't want a cookie cutter. You don't want a cookie cutter kind of a solution.
You want to build something in which it addresses the need of the client, and yet, it is scalable. Therefore, and I think generative AI has come to a lot of help, at least in that space, where we've implemented our portfolio advisory solution. We piloted with the top 30,000-35,000 clients, and I think the results were very, very encouraging. The clients, for the first time, saw their overall portfolio spread across multiple distributors in one place and were able to play around on how to do allocation, what objectives, what goals they want to achieve. I think we'll really work on to develop this further. Last quarter, and I think quarter before that, we spoke a lot on lending. FY2025 was a year where we wanted to bring in the discipline, the product side, and improve the ROE, which was done.
We said we will expand the book this year. You're seeing that getting reflected now. One quarter itself, the book size has grown by about 40%. Not reflecting in NII. I will talk in detail when I'm addressing one of the questions that why is NII not going up. I'll just quickly summarize. The book has gone up towards the end of the quarter or latter part of the quarter. If you look at the overall drivers which have an impact on NII in a quarter, it's basically the average book. So average book was not up by 40%. Average book would have been up by 20%-22%. That has a slightly negative impact in the quarter when the book has gone up because under the RBI guidelines, you have to book the expected credit losses.
Although there have been no credit losses in this book, but you're still, there is a standard provisioning which you have to do in the quarter in which end-of-period book has gone up. That impacts. Second thing that impacts the NII in this segment is in the ESOP business, how much of the loan book is getting churned. Because if the churning is high, then processing fees get upfronted. That churning was lower in this quarter. Third is that we, on our financing side, about 25%-26% of our financing comes from market-linked debentures. That has a quarterly volatility in the hedging cost, which could range from - 0.1% to + 1%. Last quarter, we were on the positive. This quarter is on the negative. That swings the NII a bit quarter on quarter. When you look at a full-year basis, it contributes a positive delta of about 50 basis points.
On the RM front, in this business, the approach we had taken for the last three quarters was to pause and stabilize the overall count. We are about 30% of the population with less than one year, which is a large mass. The objective is to work on making them productive because they are less than 1x their fixed cost vis-à-vis the rest of the population, which is about 4x-5x their fixed cost. Second is that we should not look at the count of RMs with the same lens because the composition is changing. Like we said, in the last 15-18 months, the RMs which are leaving maybe are of lower cost, and we are replacing them more with bank RMs which are of slightly higher vintage because our client profiles are also changing with the period of time.
Therefore, now one incoming is equal to almost two outgoing in terms of productivity, cost, skill set, and everything. The numbers may not be just, I mean, a plain reading of numbers may not give the right picture. Yeah, that's on the wealth side. Moving to Nuvama Private, I think there, again, coming back to our key focus, which is the recurring revenue and recurring assets. Once again, numbers, as I keep saying, speak for themselves. The growth in the overall recurring assets continues to be decent. On a full-year basis, again, we expect north of 25%-26%. Half-year continues to show that same momentum. About INR 2,500 crore came in Q1, but managed product within that was about INR 2,800 crore.
Actually, if you look at managed product quarter on quarter, Q1 was INR 2,300 crore, Q2 is about INR 2,800 crore, which is more closer to our heart because advisory asset, which is slightly down, is of a lower yield, if you will. The second milestone which we wanted to share is that our assets have now crossed INR 50,000 crore. Effectively, we have doubled in two and a half years. That's a CAGR of about 32%. Hopefully, we are able to sustain this in future. On the transactional side, we had a very good quarter this quarter, and I think the trend will continue, at least for the next two quarters. This is where I was talking about the synergy between asset management and wealth management, where we were able to leverage on the syndication opportunities created by the Commercial Real Estate Fund.
I have been saying that we are working actively on launching our credit in the asset management side, which should happen maybe in the next six to eight months, which will add tremendous syndication opportunities which some of our peers have been able to leverage very well in their businesses. That is right now missing for us, and I think that piece will also. This Commercial Real Estate gives you a sense of what we can achieve if we are able to synergize between the two across two-three asset classes, which are real assets and credit assets. Here on the RM front, our strategy has been consistent, deliberate, cautious addition. We are happy to state that we continue that. We maintain that we will add about 15%-16% a year. Over the last two and a half years, maintaining that trend, we've added about 40% of the population in this business.
We've also expanded geographically. On the international side, once our Dubai operation stabilized and we moved into operating break-even, now we have about seven, eight RMs there working full potential. We've now expanded into Singapore because there has been client demand, local client demand, and even in Singapore, the team kept saying that there is an opportunity we should start stuff, and we have started. We started small. We've been cautious always on the international side, and we will be deliberate and conscious because costs are high. As and when we see the opportunity, we keep ramping up. As of now, we feel both these markets offer significant potential for us to expand. We're also looking to add another office in Dubai, which is outside of DIFC because DIFC allows you to operate with a certain set of clients, which may not fit into the profile of Nuvama Wealth.
It fits into the profile of Nuvama Private. There's another license that happens, which is an SCA license, which gives you license to operate on the mainland with the diaspora clients. That licensing, we are now going ahead, and hopefully, in the next three to four months, that should also be operational. On the asset management side, let me begin with our Commercial Real Estate Fund. We've now reached about INR 2,400 crore of fundraise, and our target size is about INR 4,000 crore. We want to close it by, let's say, middle of Q4, by, say, February, the entire INR 4,000 crore. We are taking INR 4,000 crore as a target size. We are almost 30% deployed, and I'll talk a bit about the deployment in a second.
Once we hit 60%, and hopefully that we should hit by, let's say, June next year maximum, it will be time to move to the next fund, which can either have a similar mandate or a broader mandate because now we are more experienced as to how we should play this game. Hopefully, in Q2 next year, our second Commercial Real Estate Fund will get launched. On the deployment side, last quarter, we mentioned that we did our first deal. This was prime office space in Delhi in Saket. We've been able to close our second transaction, which is a very, very large office space, fully leased in Chennai, in Perungudi. We bought this from Capitaland. It's a Grade A asset and a large deal. It was a total value of INR 2,600 crore, INR 1,300 crore equity value, INR 1,300 crore LRD.
Half of that went to the fund, and half of it was syndicated. On public markets, last quarter, we mentioned that we're working on settling the performance, which is now done. Q2, the total gross sales were about two and a half times of Q1, but there was a big planned redemption of one large client on advance tax, which we lost. Now, I think the regular redemption will be 10%-15% of the AUM. We will see accretion from Q3 onwards in that. From a performance perspective, both of them now are operating in top tier. The key thing here to note is that you're all aware that we applied for the mutual fund license because we were very keen to operate the SIF vehicle because it gives a significant tax advantage as compared to an AIF for both the strategies which we run.
Thankfully, now we have a track record in both the strategies, which is long-short and absolute return. For us, both these strategies work very, very well in the regulatory guardrails which have been implemented for SIF. As and when we get the SIF license, the expectation of which is in the next maybe six months, we want to go live. April is where we want to go live. We will migrate this, which shall expand the target market base significantly because you will come down from a 1 crore to a 10 lakh ticket size. It will open regular distribution across banks, other wealth managers, and IFAs. We are actively looking forward to it. On private equity, deployment continues to be at full pace. On the private equity funds per se, very little deployment is now left. We have started raising crossover for our new pre-IPO fund.
There also, we've done certain deployments. We are also looking at three to four exits very soon. Two IPOs, DRHPs have been filed and should hit the market, I think, one of them in November, one of them in December. Both ideally should list between 1.5x-2x. That will give a bump up to the NAV and hopefully will act as a catalyst to the fourth fundraise. The other two deals, again, banker appointment is in process, and the expectation of the team is by April to June, those two also will. These four itself will give a reasonable amount of NAV jump. I wanted to talk about the yield compression that has happened on the private markets. In our VDF, which is the other strategy where we deploy in venture debt, we have consciously taken a call because deployment got delayed. Deals were not coming at the right valuation.
We did not want to risk the investor capital by putting it at any valuation. We consciously said that for three quarters, we will not charge fees, which is due to us, which is an impact of about INR 20,000,000 a quarter. From April 1st, we will start charging it back. It is a temporary reduction which will come back from April 1st. In VDF, we have about INR 6,700 crore of deployment left. We charge fees as we deploy and not on the committed value. As and when that 600-700 crore, which is, let's say, maybe you can take 25-25 crore a month to be the deployment to be done. About, say, nine months to twelve months, we deploy full. The overall yield there is about 60-70 basis points. That addition will happen into the revenue which comes into the private markets.
Coming to asset services business, I think this was the most anticipated and washed out after what happened at the beginning of the quarter when we lost that large client. I think resilience is clearly demonstrated. We basically recalibrated our entire strategy, and we looked at the existing clients and the new pipeline, both on the domestic side and on the international side. Our sense was, which continues, that by maybe middle of Q4, we will come back to the same levels where we were. 50% of the loss is now recovered. Let's say the client was contributing X revenues. As we speak, by end of Q2, 50% of that X is now recovered on a run rate basis. The balance 50% will come maybe by January, February. I think that reasonably brings us back into the game. On a half-year basis, the revenue has still grown year-over-year 5%.
The fundamental thing which people keep asking here is on concentration. Now, you have to understand two, three things that at a cross-section of time, concentration in this business will be there. There are only 30-40 HFTs who are invested right now in the country. By any Pareto principle, the top 10 will be contributing 60%-70%. That is the case for us also. The key point is that the top 10 keeps changing every twelve months. If we see our own book, the top 10 contributors of FY2023, which were, let's say, 60%-70% then, are less than 25% now. Same thing, the top 10 contributors of FY2025 would be less than 40% now. If you understand what I'm trying to say, three years back, there were 10 HFTs. You are now 35-40 HFTs. If you plot this three, four years out, you are looking at 100 HFTs.
Structurally, the concentration in the market will keep coming down as you move forward. I don't think one should be too hung up on that. Market opportunity remains really attractive. If you look at the overall FPI AUM growth, that has clocked about 20%. On a five-year basis, despite so much exits that has happened. AIF, PMS have clocked about 45% CAGR over the last five years. Even now, in the last six months, there have been about 150 new registrations each for FPIs and AIF, PMS. The strategic trend remains as strong as ever for this business. Our pipeline also is extremely strong. New client acquisition continues to keep pace. People are now reasonably settled with the regulatory framework around derivatives and the stance of the regulator. I think they are now increasing the pace of their deployment.
I think business seems to be in a good place from a sector and a macro perspective here also. Institutional equities and IB, I think, is going through a tough phase, especially on the institutional equity side this year. Because when you compare last year to this year, I think the key change that has happened is that the F&O regulations came, which has brought down the ADTO across the market level, which is now reflecting. Q1 was extremely weak on the ECM side also. I think Q2 was a complete reversal. Q1 saw about 15 IPOs. Q2 saw 50. There was a jump. I think the trend will continue. Maybe once that stabilizes, you will see the secondary volumes also coming back. On the IB side, fixed income continues to shine. We retain our position as the number one banker for IPOs.
We moved up one rank in private placements. We are now number three. Just to remind, we were in the 20s about three years back. With the inclusion of bond Indian GSEC in the index, I think the FPI interest has gone up significantly. That part of the business has also gone up. Fundamentally, the business, which was about INR 20 crore a quarter, has basically moved to INR 30 crore a quarter for us, which is a 33% jump. Combination of ECM plus fixed income, I think, holds that also in a reasonably good state. Although on a full-year basis, because of the Appasamy deal last year, we may not see a significant jump. I think trend-wise, we are reasonably okay. Yeah. I think that basically sums up our performance and outlook across businesses. I can now request Bharat to take you through the details of the financial performance.
Bharat, over to you. Yeah.
Thank you, Ashish. Good afternoon, everyone. Ashish, we discussed quite a bit in detail. What I'll do, I'll focus on the key numbers as well as more on the console label so that we have enough time for the Q&A also. As Ashish mentioned, overall, in terms of the various moving parts of our businesses, what initiatives we are taking, how the client behavior is moving, how are we doing our geographical expansion, RM and all. That has been discussed. The two things which is over and above what Ashish has covered is that we have actually declared our interim dividend for FY 2025-2026, which is INR 70 per share. This has been approved by the board in the yesterday board meeting. This is similar to our dividend distribution policies where we have mentioned about 40%-60% is our dividend distribution range.
This comes out to be around 49%-50% for the H1 profit. We have declared that the record date will be 11th of November for that. The second is that in the board meeting, we also deliberated should we look at our share split. I'm happy to share that the board has actually decided to split the shares from INR 10 face value to INR 2 face value. Obviously, it'll take some time in terms of the way all paperwork and the things have to be done. The share split has also been approved by the board. That's the two things which is over and above the quarterly performance which we have, which just Ashish updated.
Having said that, if you look at the overall console number, the console number are assets, client assets at around INR 4.4 lakh crore, which is obviously added by the net new flow, which we've been adding over the last four quarters. That has helped. That's INR 4.4 lakh crore. Overall revenue for the quarter was at around INR 772 crore, which is a 4% growth on YoY basis. This time, both wealth and the private has actually led the pack wherein they have grown by 26% YoY. Now the wealth and private business contribution in the total revenue has touched 57% in Q2, which was 47% Q2 last year. There is an absolute 10% increase in the wealth and private contribution to the revenue. Similar thing you will see in the PAT also.
The contribution has actually moved from 35%- 45% in the PAT for the company coming from private and wealth itself. The strategy which we've been following is to focus and enhance our wealth and private franchise. That is playing in well. Overall, if you look at the cost, the cost is at around INR 437 crore, which has grown by 12%. 75% of this cost is employee cost, which is about people and variable cost of it. The OpEx, you will see that there is a growth in the OpEx. For OpEx, my recommendation here is that last year we did around INR 410 crore of OpEx on the full-year basis. This time, quarter one and quarter two average is hovering around at INR 110 crore. The way to look at our OpEx growth is twofold.
One is that a 4%-5% increase in the OpEx will happen because of the usual inflation. The vendors' bills will go up as part of the inflation. The lease rentals will go up. That is roughly 4%-5% of the cost. The balance 4-5% cost increase will come because of our expansion. As Ashish was also referring, we have opened new branches for, say, wealth and private. We have actually expanded our DIFC office. We have actually now taken a lot more space close to our HO because as we are establishing our mutual fund license, we need more space. So we have actually taken a lot more space closer to our HO, which will obviously come in the quarters to come also.
But having said that, headline 10% kind of an OpEx increase, 4%-5% inflation link, 4%-5% link to the business is what we can expect on a steady state basis. That's where the OpEx is expected to go. In terms of the overall PAT, it is INR 254 crore for the quarter, which was INR 264 crore for last quarter, and maybe INR 258 crore for the similar quarter last year. And the ROE was at around 28% for the quarter. Again, my recommendation and the view on the PAT is that the same PAT, that same INR 250 crore PAT, what was there, say, last quarter and now, the composition is what makes the difference. And that is where I was saying that the composition of wealth and private has moved from 35%- 45% in the similar genre of the PAT.
I think that is more relevant to know rather than attempt just the absolute change in the PAT per se over a quarter or quarter on a year on year. That's where I think as a business we are moving. And it seems on the right trajectory. Rest, Ashish, anyways, covered a lot of details in terms of the various businesses. I would suggest that if we can move to the moderator to take the questions. Ashish, is that okay?
Sure. Yeah. We can move to the questions. Thank you, everyone.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question- and- answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchdown telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question.
Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We'll take a first question from the line of Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. And congratulations instead of numbers given the challenge that we had on the asset services. The first question is on the asset services side wherein the yield has gone up this quarter. Is it again because of that one lumpy client going away and this has more sustainable yield? Is that the way to think about it? That's the first question. Second question is on the flow front where we have seen strong flows in wealth and private both. Do you think that this momentum can continue?
Because in one of the segments, it's like almost the amount of flows that you've been in the first half is equal to what they have done in the entire last year. How should we think about flows from here on in both wealth and private? Third is on the overall PAT, right? Bharat, you mentioned that we should look at the way the mix has been changing. On an absolute basis, the PAT has been stagnant at about that INR 250 crore mark for the past four or five quarters. How should we think about the profitability moving ahead, going ahead? Those are my two questions. Thanks.
Thanks, Prayesh. First, on asset services. I think you have to look at two things in tandem. Essentially, the yield and the assets. What we have always maintained is that the earning assets.
There is one set of assets on which you earn custody fees and all that, which is one. And one on which you earn float. In the one on which you earn float, it is typically the clearing clients where there is a split between GSEC and, let's say, bank deposits which come through us. That ratio keeps changing with the size of the clients. When you saw the yields went up, you also see that the clearing assets have come down. Basically, yes, there is an impact of, let's say, that large client because that large client bought a large amount of assets. The ratio was skewed higher towards GSEC, lower towards deposit. If strategically we are able to get a large number of smaller clients, the yields would be higher.
If, let's say, some clients come in and then scale up, scale up, and scale up significantly, then their ratio would change. At least for the next two to three quarters, we can project the yields. That looks to be in the range of 2.6%-3-3.2% because we are in the acquisition mode of many, many clients. If, let's say, somebody ramps up, maybe it corrects. When it comes down, there will be a simultaneous increase in the clearing assets. That is that. On flows of both private and wealth, we are reasonably confident that it will continue. There is no one-off here. It is reasonably granular across different product categories. Maybe 10%-15% up, down, that keeps happening in our business quarter to quarter. If you ask me from a directional trend perspective, we do not see anything changing in the strength of the flows per se.
On PAT, like you, we also want to cross the 250 kind of a, I do not know, it is an artificial threshold which has come and something keeps happening. Hopefully, now everything is behind us and we come back to our 20% growth trajectory from here on because the rebasing of asset services should happen. I think one quarter has passed. As I mentioned, in the next three to five months, we will recover fully what we lost from that client. Thereafter, then it is again an upward move, which you will see in terms because wealth businesses are anyways performing what it should do, even better, I would say. Asset management, as it keeps adding, it moves into breakeven. And even if it does not, I'm saying the adjacency benefit that it brings to other businesses is significantly high.
So as we add credit, maybe there'll be some drag because new team will come and all that. I'm not so much concerned. But otherwise, that 20%-25% growth trajectory should be back once the rebasing of asset services happens.
Got that. I will come back in the queue for more. Thanks.
Yeah.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Manas Agrawal from Sanford C. Bernstein. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Couple of questions around asset services and then on the split. Asset services, essentially, is there any phasing impact also because assets have grown more than revenue despite yields going up? So is there a back-ended cadence to asset accumulation within that business? That is A. B, can you help us understand where the cost to income sits for the period because this is a slower growth quarter?
So as to say, and historically, my understanding is this business, you have operating leverage favoring you. Third, this is hypothetical. If weekly was to go away, any indication of what clients would do behaviorally or from a financial perspective? That is on asset services. And on the split. My first reaction to that whole discussion around doing a split is, is it aimed at improving liquidity so as to facilitate potential exits for shareholders? That is my question on the split.
Manas, can you repeat the first question? I didn't understand when you said assets have gone up faster.
So I'm looking at the press release and I've not necessarily looked at the data book in detail at this point in time. Your asset services, assets have gone up 15%. Your asset services revenue has gone up 5%. We already discussed that.
Are you comparing year- on- year?
Yes.
Actually, year on year closing assets in asset services is down 15%.
Okay. My mistake over there. So we can skip that question. That is fine. That bridges the gap. Cost to income and any potential impact on weekly expiry and then the split.
%Got it. So cost to income broadly. I think the range there is similar. So overall, if you look at the segment of asset services and capital markets put together, last full year was 40. Q1 was also 40. Q2 is also 40. Because there is some amount of control you have on the cost side, especially the variable employee cost, which moves in line with the revenues. So the range at which you operate in cost to income will be between 38%-39% to 43%-44%-45% unless there is a massive deterioration in the capital markets business. Otherwise, this is the range we'll operate in.
I think, and going forward. As we add clients and the rebasing happens because of the loss of large clients, we will come back to the trajectory of operating leverage. You will see improvement happening from Q1 next year onwards. The split actually was long overdue in the sense. We received a lot of representation from retail investors and all that. When we analyzed our own book out of some 2-3 lakh retail investors which we have, more than 70% or 80% hold less than 10 shares. I think more than 50% hold less than 5 shares. There was a lot of this thing, which we then said, "Okay, let's just go ahead and do it." It will have no bearing on exit planning for, let's say, a PAG. Because if you look at how a PAG exits, okay, I am just talking about the theoretical modes of exit.
The most basic is selling blocks in the market. Now, selling blocks in the market happens to institutions, nothing to do with split. Second is selling to other private equity or strategics, which also has nothing to do with split. Exit of the shareholder and split actually do not have any correlation whatsoever. If you look at the peer group, and when we saw the peer group, everybody has split. Everybody trades in that 1,000, 1,200, 800, 900, except maybe Anand Rathi, which has also done a split. Otherwise, if you look at Motilal, if you look at 360, if you look at IIFL, everybody has that INR 2 or INR 1 stock. We were the only one remaining at that 10 bucks. I think we just said we should just do it. That is it.
Understood. Any discussion around weekly expiry potentially going ahead?
It depends on what weekly converts to.
This is one thing which we realized is that, like the world of macroeconomics, there is no ceteris paribus here. There are too many moving parts, right? If you see the volumes that are happening in MCX, we would not have imagined that two years back. That is picking up. There is discussion around GIFT Nifty and volumes there, how they will bring back. Let's say weekly moves to fortnightly, I do not think too much will change because the way you look at it is that if I have 100 bucks to deploy, I will still deploy 100 bucks. If you divide the earning of the intermediaries who make money by trading in derivatives, I would split it into two buckets. One is brokers. Actually, three. One is brokers. Second is exchanges. Third is custodian and clearing agents.
Brokers and exchanges will get impacted because they earn on transaction, number of transactions, and transaction volume. Clearing and custodian does not get impacted that much because they earn on the position. If your position size is still there, you will require collateral. You will require margin. If you require margin. The earning of the custodian and the clearing agent is consistent. That does not change. That is how we look at it in terms of overall impact if weekly were to go away.
Understood. Thank you. One last question. Sorry, you brought up MCX, so I am asking. Your clearing license is across asset classes or is it only some asset classes?
Yes. No, across.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure management is able to answer queries from all participants, kindly restrict your questions to two at a time.
You may join back the queue for follow-up questions. We will take our next question from the line of Dipanjan Ghosh from Citi. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good morning, sir. I hope I am audible. A few questions from my side, maybe one on each of the segments. First, on Nuvama Private. Can you break up your recurring AUM and flows between corporate treasury and ex-corporate treasury for 2Q and 1H? And you also mentioned on the TBR pipeline, so going kind of sustaining in 2H also. Should we expect a 2Q run bit or some moderation to that? Second, a data giving question on the—sorry. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Just one second. I am just noting down corporate treasury and transaction. Yeah. Go on.
Yeah. On the AMC business, just wanted to get some color. And you mentioned that some of the deals are nearing their exit.
Should we expect carry booking gradually, or do you want to kind of defer it over the period? And last question on your capital markets business. In terms of the IBIE. First is, if you can split it between IBIE and also, just let us say hypothetically, if all of your primary market deals were to convert over the next 12-13 months, what revenue quantum can one really expect in that business?
Private, let me start. Corporate treasury is actually negligible in both Q2, H1. Actually, Q2, there was a loss on an outflow of about INR 3,000,000,000 from a corporate treasury. Rest all is non-corporate treasury. Transactional income, if you see the way we look at it, is that we should see an almost 15%-17% growth over last year.
Once we look at H1 numbers, that basically gives a sense that Q3, Q4 should be order of magnitude between INR 750,000,000-INR 800,000,000 as against the INR 1,000,000,000 of Q2. AMC carry, we do not accrue. We typically start book only when it gets realized at the end. This exit, we will not lead to a booking right now, no. Once our commercial real estate fund moves into that zone, we will start doing an accrual and booking. Once we launch credit, these two asset classes render themselves more to a carry accrual and booking. Our sense is that on equity products, we still want to be conservative and want to do it more towards the end and not. Do an accrual or an estimated probabilistic accrual as of now. That is our stand. Capital markets, IB + IE, it keeps changing, Dipanjan.
Broadly from a profit perspective, if, let us say, both put together contribute in a year about 20% of the profits, then anywhere between 12%-13% comes from IE and 7%-8% comes from IB. The last question was, if all our ECM deals were to convert, so you are assuming a probability of 100%, then the revenue is INR 250 crore. If I apply probability, which we do, then it comes to about INR 150 crore.
Got it, sir. Just one question on the regulations part. I mean, if this consultation paper from SEBI on MS side were to go through. I think we obviously do not get color on the exact details of the business, but on your IE business. And on the distribution income across INR 20 crore-INR 25 crore,
about INR 20 crore-INR 25 crore on top-line basis.
If it goes exactly in the shape and form it has come, and we charge zero on research.
Sorry, sir. This also.
Charge anything on research, and you charge only 2 basis points. Derivatives is already less than 1, so no impact. On cash side, there is a blend of DMA, non-DMA. We are not at 12 basis points. Nobody is at 12 basis points except people like yourselves who are MNC brokers. We would be lower, much lower. If this settles anywhere around 5-6 basis points, we will actually benefit than lose.
Got it. On the distribution front, I mean, the similar circular, any effect on distributor commissions?
To us, our total MF income is still quite low. I mean, both businesses put together would be less than 5%-6% of our revenues, so not too much to us.
I think higher on distribution on MF, they will get impacted on that 5 basis points depending on how the split is decided. For us, no. Right now, no.
Just to be clear, this INR 20 crore-INR 25 crore on an annual basis, right?
Yes.
Got it. Thank you, sir, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. We will take our next question from the line of Lalit Dey from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Sure, sir. Just two questions. One, we have seen a good increase in the lending book in this particular quarter. However, the margins have declined from 6% to around 4.4%. Anything particular to read over there? Secondly.
Go on, go on.
Yeah. Secondly, in the wealth business. As compared to the previous last quarter's presentations, the RM count seems to have declined from 1,200 to 1,100.
Are we seeing some aggression over there in the same? Yes.
On the lending board, like I said in my opening remarks, you have two, three, four things. What impacts the NII? One is basically the most basic is the composition of the book. That part has no impact. I'd say how much is margin financing, how much is loan against shares, how much is ESOP, margin financing being the most profitable. That for us has remained consistent. That has not had a bearing. Second is what proportion of the ESOP books churns in a quarter. Let's say you exercise ESOP, there is a processing fee charged that gets amortized over the period of the loan. Now, you've taken a loan for, say, six months or one year. Amortization will happen monthly.
If you happen to sell your ESOP in the second month, then in that month, the entire realization is booked. When the underlying stock price moves faster, we see behaviorally people exit their ESOP loans faster. Processing fees get booked faster, which happened in some of the underlying ESOPs for us in Q1. The reverse of that happened in Q2. It is just a timing difference. The third, I think, more important thing is when our book size increases, you have to see the timing. If the timing is towards the latter part of the quarter, then it acts as a negative in that quarter because we have to book what is called expected credit losses as per RBI. That booking is done on the end-of-period book size basis.
Let's say hypothetically, your book was INR 100 crore at the end of Q1, and it remained at INR 100 crore for the next two months. In the third month, it became INR 200 crore. Now you earned NII on INR 200 crore only for one month, but you paid the expected credit loss on the full INR 200 crore. The benefit will start coming from next quarter onwards, which you will see. That ECL or expected credit loss was high. The third is again a timing difference of the profit or loss that happens on MLD hedging. We have about 25% of our borrowing that comes from MLD. That hedging can move ± 0.5%. Plus to minus, which is a 1% range actually. In Q1, Q2, we move from plus to minus.
Q3 expected, again, we'll move back to plus because on a full-year basis, you end up making a 0.5% profit, which reduces your cost of funds. These are the three things. Hopefully, in Q3, Q4, you will see an uptick on NII, which will happen, which will benefit the business, the cost, income, productivity, everything. On wealth RM also, Lalit, I mentioned, you remember that we are changing the composition of the RMs. What we had earlier on our full population basis, we are upgrading them. Almost by 70%-80% fixed cost basis. Numbers may not actually talk to each other. If I lose two RMs of, say, INR 700,000, and if I hire one of INR 1,400,000, I'm at the same level because productivity of 5X will deliver the same revenue. But my OpEx goes down, my training cost goes down, my supervisory, everything else goes down.
That is the transition that is happening. Having said that, Q3 onwards, we will start adding RMs on a net basis also, which you will see from next quarter results.
Yes. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Sanketh Godha from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Ashish, my question is more on, again, on the net flow number. Last time when we spoke, in the last call, you highlighted around INR 24,000 crore-INR 25,000 crore of flow happening in 2026. We already are closer to INR 13,000 crore in Q1 for all products put together. You still want to maintain that guidance, or you think it will surprise positively? If it's the case, then which segments can be doing that? That's the first question.
The second thing, just wanted to understand, probably a bit of color on your asset clearing business. Whether your HFT guys are predominantly Nifty guys, or they even do a lot of Sensex. The reason I'm asking this question is that the Sensex in general asset index has been taking a lot of market share. Whether your participants or HFT clients are heavily skewed towards Nifty, or they have an equal, or they move in line with the industry, how Sensex contribution has gone up for the industry. These are the two questions.
On the first one, Sanketh, I think right now, we feel that it will be in the lines of what we had guided earlier, which is INR 25,000 crore-INR 26,000 crore. If we happen to launch a few more products in asset management, that could lead to a positive spin there.
Or maybe both the wealth and private businesses can add a bit more. I do not want to build that anticipation right now. On HFT, I think your assessment is reasonably accurate that they actually move in line with the industry. Because see, they ultimately will follow where the volumes happen. They have to do that, otherwise, and whichever segment will produce volumes, they have to chase that. They do not have a choice because that's where their algos will work because they need volumes to work. In fact, most of them operate across both and are split across both, and in general, will move in line with the market volumes between Nifty and Sensex.
Understood. Understood. Lastly, Ashish, this SIF thing, what you mentioned in the opening remarks.
Is it fair to say that the day SIF will go live, then given tax angle you mentioned, is it fair to say that your AIF money, which is sitting in public markets today in AMC business, will largely get directed or sales will happen more there? If it is the case.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no. That is by far the desired end outcome only. Even if the client doesn't shift on their own, we will make them shift because it is superior for them.
And the yields or your realization, which is around 60 basis points on the public markets today, that number will still hold up or it will be better relatively from your perspective?
So basically, if you look at it from a two-year perspective, I think it will go up because we will add a larger number of distributors. We have now.
More performance on the belt. So. In both these categories, from a performance perspective, we are really the top players across the board. I think it will start right now. The issue is that many of the retail-oriented or affluent-oriented distributors are not able to touch our product because of the minimum ticket size. That changes. Hopefully, the yields will inch upwards.
Understood. But you might be enjoying Cari in the larger ticket size, right? That advantage will go away.
See, the Cari also brings down the fixed fee, no, Sanketh?
Understood. Understood.
Yeah. Anyways, we like fixed fee more than Cari because certainty is higher and everything is higher. Even for the distribution community, the fixed fee product works much better than the Cari product because it brings more predictability to their revenue streams.
Understood. Thanks for the answers. That's all from my side.
Thank you.
Next question is from the line of Mohit Mangal from Centrum. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. I have three questions. My first question is, if you see the net new money within the wealth segment actually saw a big jump from INR 2,800 crore- INR 3,800 crore. Was this because of the increasing wallet share from old clients or the newer clients contributed to this increase? Second question, I mean, you explained that the transaction income within the private division grew abnormally higher because of the syndication opportunities. Safe to assume that your transaction would grow higher than ARR and that ARR as a percentage of the segmental revenue would be less than 50%? My last question is basically, I was looking at your consolidated balance sheet, and the loans and investments have seen a big increase. What could be the reasons for that?
Yeah, that's it.
First one. In wealth, 2,800- 3,800. I think the contribution from deepening of existing clients is higher than new. Typically, for us, that's the case. In certain quarters, only new clients contribute more. In a general basis, you have a larger pool of existing clients. If you take the full revenue and full flow and split between the two, the contribution from existing will be higher. On private, let me give you a bit of color on the transactional income in general, and then we can go into the specifics. See, in private, transactional income is basically driven by four or five drivers. One is your classic brokerage. Then your fixed income and MLD, MLD being very, very minuscule. Fixed income largely. Then you have unlisted shares. And last is syndication.
If you look at 100 rupees of, let's say, transactional income, almost 70-80 comes from BAU, which is brokerage and fixed income. Only 20-30 will be this is what we call episodic, which is unlisted and syndication. Episodic syndication for us now, because I keep saying we don't have credit funds. We work with external credit fund managers where the deal supply is slightly more sporadic. Once we have our own credit funds launched and we are deploying every month, you will see the syndication also become a part of BAU like for some of our peers. It's a combination of this. If you are asking whether between ARR and transactional, the share of transactional will go up like in this quarter for a full-year basis, the answer is no.
On a full-year basis, we will still end up, I think, with more than 55% being ARR and 40%-45% being transactional. Loan book and investment book gone up. Investment is basically client facilitation where we hold stuff on our book to downsell. That is in line with the growth of business. Both fixed income and any other syndication or unlisted deals, if it is sitting on the balance sheet and the transaction has not yet concluded with the downselling, that's just temporary. Loan, as a part of design, we said that we will grow. If you look at our overall lending income, it's, let's say, 10%-12%. Whereas if you look at our peers, it's about 20%. There is a 50% gap, which is a clear scope available for us to ramp up the loan book. This is the first step we have taken. Directionally, we will keep increasing that.
Understood.
Thanks. This is very helpful. Thanks, and wish you all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Raghvesh from JM Financial. Please go ahead. Raghvesh, your line is unmuted.
Yeah. Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. I had one question on the wealth space. When I try to back calculate the retentions, which are having on the MPIS business, it's coming to somewhere around 1.5%-1.6%. Can you explain that, or am I doing something wrong?
Can you repeat the sentence? There was.
Raghvesh, can you please see your handset mode, please?
Yeah. Hi. Is it better?
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes. On the MPIS in the wealth space, when I'm looking at somewhere around 37,000-38,000 crore of client assets and the venues which we are giving, my retentions are coming to somewhere around 1.5%-1.6%, which appears slightly high.
Can you explain how that number is coming in?
If you look at the products there, it's essentially mutual fund, PMS, AIF. These three would be managed products. There, depending on the underlying asset class, the yield could range between 70 basis points to 1.2%. Depending on the product class which we are dealing with. On a blended basis, maybe we hit about 90 basis points to 1%. Then there is fixed income. There is insurance. There is MLD. There is unlisted, where you are earning more transactional income, and the yield is on gross sales, which is higher. Combination of these two essentially gives you that 1.5%, 1.6% which is broadly in line with, let's say, if you look at an Anand Rathi Wealth also makes, it's similar to that.
Okay. Okay. Thanks for this.
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, we'll take that as the last question for today. I now hand over the call to management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. I think I really want to thank all of you for being there on a holiday. We were expecting a lower participation. I think this has been higher than what we had expected. Would look forward to meeting you all once again in quarter three, hopefully with positively surprising all of you. Thank you once again.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Nuvama Wealth Management, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.