Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. V.S. Ganesh, Managing Director, Page Industries, for his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Thank you so much. Ladies and gentlemen, a very good afternoon to you. Thank you for joining us today for the performance of Page Industries for the financial year 2024. Joining me on the call today are Mr. Deepanjan, our Chief Financial Officer, and Mr. Karthik Yathindra, our President and Chief Sales and Marketing Officer. Before we delve into specific numbers for the year and for the quarter, I will briefly run you through the year gone by against the industry and economic backdrop. Last year, we witnessed a significant challenge and transformative changes in the innerwear and apparel industry. The economic landscape characterized by inflation, rising interest rates, and job losses in key sectors led to a reduction in consumer spending. Consequently, demand for products in the categories we operate in also saw a decline.
The industry was affected by lower consumption growth and saw a significant shift in consumer spending. The sluggishness in consumer demand was reflected in revenue growth during the first half of the year, followed by stability in Q3 and in Q4, with sustained focus to healthy inventory in the distribution network, we could see a resumption of growth trends. During Q4, the operating environment remained largely consistent with the preceding quarters, with a slight uptick in growth witnessed towards the end of the quarter. As I told you before, the apparel sector has witnessed challenging circumstances during the year, and the volume growth for the sector on a nominal basis has remained subdued. While grappling with inventory, erratic climate events and subdued environment in the general trade channels, leading to a slower than anticipated recovery. Despite these challenges, our commitment to sustainable sales practices remains unwavering.
We are actively implementing measures to uphold operating margins and optimize inventory, ensuring strategic and responsible approach to navigate through the current situation. I'm pleased to share that Page Industries can maintain its leadership in quality and market presence across all its categories. We continue to drive inventory health, improvement across distribution network, consumer connect and engagement, and optimize operational efficiency through various measures, including technology upgrades. Our commitment to technology, brand promotion, and expanding market reach remains unwavering, with a simultaneous focus on maintaining profitable operating margins. These focus pursued resulted in an impressive PAT growth of around 38.1%, while revenue growth was 3.2% in Q4. Owing to the prevailing macroeconomic and subdued market conditions, which were more pronounced than expected, FY 2024 annual revenue declined by 2.7% while maintaining our operating margins.
In line with our objectives, we continue to stay invested in enhancing consumer reach and experience, in diversifying and enriching our product offering, working on operational excellence, and taking digital transformation initiatives. A diligent control over expenses has ensured strong operating margins and sustained effort on the aspects of operational excellence, transformation, marketing, and this was achieved without touching our product prices. Our primary focus has been on enhancing productivity within our supply chain. We are embarked on this journey to modernize our distribution management system, aligning with our commitment to continuous improvement. Our distribution network expansions remains in line with our plans, and as of end of March, we have a network of over 106,000 MBOs, 1,382 EBOs, 1,670+ LFS outlets , and we are also strategically directing towards metros.
Our e-commerce channel witnessed substantial growth of 30% in FY 2024. This reflects evolving consumer purchasing preferences and our commitment to strengthening our online presence. Jockey.in has a refreshed user interface that has enhanced consumer experience. We have several initiatives being executed to further strengthen our B2C channels. We continue to invest for attaining our long-term objectives. Our strategic focus encompasses multiple plans, including intensifying our position in metros, expanding large format stores, expansion of exclusive brand outlets, growing B2C business, improving customer experience, strengthening our product portfolio, continued partner and consumer engagement, and brand building. Initiatives also being taken to ensure a robust supply chain. We express our sincere gratitude for your unwavering support and trust in Page Industries, and we eagerly anticipate the opportunity to address any questions you may have and provide further insight into our performance during this call.
However, I would suggest Mr. Deepanjan , to run you through the numbers for the quarter and for the year before we take questions. Thank you so much for joining in today.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Ganesh. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome again in today's earnings call. I hope you are all keeping well. I am pleased to report that Page Industries has delivered an improved performance in Q4 of FY 2024. To take you through the key financial highlights for Q4, we recorded sales volumes of 45.3 million pieces, growth of 6.1% year-on-year, resulting in revenue of INR 9,954 million. With revenue growth of 3.2%, EBITDA achieved INR 1,672 million, a growth of 24.5% year-on-year. We continue to focus on enhancing customer reach, experience, and engagement through investments in marketing initiatives and technology enhancements. At the same time, favorable fabric costs and operational expenses optimization contributed to strengthening the operating margins without touching product prices.
As planned, Q4 EBITDA margin was lesser at 16.8%, due to cost initiatives. PAT for the quarter was INR 1,082 million, which was a growth of 38.1%. PAT margin for the quarter was 12.4%. Coming to the annual performance for FY 2024, revenue and volume was INR 45,817 million and 208.3 million pieces. Revenue and volume had declined by 2.8% and 3.4%, respectively, affected by weaker demand and consumption predominantly in the first half of the year. EBITDA was INR 8,722 million, growing marginally by 1.1%. PAT for the year was INR 5,692 million, marginally declining by 0.4%.
Inventory at the quarter end was INR 11,703 million, as against INR 15,953 million at the end of Q4 FY 2023. Inventory days was 93, as against 124 days in Q4 FY 2023. The improvement in inventory days is in line with our continuing efforts for healthier inventory. Net working capital was INR 9,373 million, as compared to INR 7,680 million at the end of Q4 FY 2023. Working capital days was 75 against 69 in Q4 FY 2023. We remain debt-free, and the increase in funds is reflected in higher working capital days. To summarize our financial performance, we remain focused in driving operational excellence and capitalize on growth opportunities. We continue to make investments in marketing, digital transformation, and process improvements to deliver value to consumers efficiently.
We can now discuss any queries that you may have.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Avi Mehta from Macquarie. Please go ahead.
Hi, team. Hi, Ganesh, and, sir. Avi here. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. Sir, I wanted to understand first, you know, given your comments of a slight uptick in the demand conditions towards the end of the quarter, how far do you think we are from looking at, you know, the mid-teens kind of value growth that we target? Basically, I want to kind of get a sense on how are you looking at FY 25 from a sales growth perspective? Thanks, Avi, for the question. FY 25, you know, I can see things may improve, but, it is good if we plan that it, the uptick is gradual. I think better part of the year should be bound, because I can see the growth in economy.
Maybe we are also looking at a good monsoon, good industrial output, agricultural output. So these are all good things which should help us to boost demand in the later part of the year. But from a planning point of view, I would rather plan for a gradual uptick so that we are cautiously addressing our approach. So just so that I understand, from this current level of, you know, low single digits that we are, to reaching that mid-teen number, you are saying that it will be a gradual uptick is what conservatively one should kind of build in, but you are essentially optimistic of it kind of coming through. Is that the right summary or understanding?
It is, and we have taken enough measures, if the market is back, and if the buoyancy is back, we are all ready to address all the requirements. So we are well prepared. But from a margin point of view, to protect our margins from an expense point of view, from an operational control point of view, I would rather plan a cautiously aggressive approach and look at a gradual uptake so that we are well prepared. Got it, sir. And, sir, just from a conceptual question, you know, the margin profile that we are witnessing, I mean, is it fair to say that till the recovery pans out, margins are likely to remain at, in lower end of that 90%-21% range, something what we saw in 2024?
That's how it will be from a EBITDA margin perspective. So if growth is stronger, then margins will move towards the upper end of the range, otherwise it might be towards the lower end of the range or somewhere in the middle then. That's how. Is the right equation, sir? If you look at it, our margins, we've always been comfortable between 18%-21%, and we have been hovering around those. It's very important to note, this is despite we not touching the prices. We have taken enough initiatives— Mm-hmm. —to protect the margins without touching the price, which in the long run should do good for the brand.
We will continue to put in all the efforts to protect our margins and be in that zone and be a value for money proposition for our consumers. Got it, sir. Sir, last bit, if you could just update us where the current how is the dealer inventory levels like across say the athleisure in your space? You pointed out seeing some you know still there is being some pressure in the last quarter. Any update on that would be very useful, sir. Karthik, you want to update on that?
Sure, Ganesh. Hi, Avi. With regards to inventory level at our channel partners and for the full year, last year, we've seen an improvement of about six days. In Q4 alone, that's been about an uptick of about three days reduction in overall inventory. While there has been reduction in the overall inventory, this of course varies from category to category. The number I shared with you is at a brand level. It's a lot more pronounced in a few categories when compared to the other. While the overall inventory levels have dropped by about six days, this is also cueing in a lot of healthier mix in the inventory that the distributors and channel partners are holding today when compared to one year ago.
How is this versus history, Karthik?
Sorry, you're not coming through. Come again.
Sorry, I just want, how is this versus, you know, you had said that still elevated versus history. Now, are we closer to the, you know, normalized levels in dealer inventory? Is that how I should see it?
No, it's-
Or is it still high?
It's not, it's still not at an ideal level, where we want, our channel partners to be at. It is still at an inflated level. It will take time as we see, the, inventory correction is a function of secondary sales and the replenishment through the ARS system, which is, an organic process, which will take time. But what we are witnessing is that with every month passing by, we are seeing, one, the absolute inventory coming down, as well as the mix of the inventory improvement.
Got it. Got it. Sorry, just to clarify, when you said some categories, still innerwear is better off versus athleisure. Is that... because that's what you had indicated last time as well. I just wanted to clarify.
That's correct, continues.
That's correct. That's all. I'll come back in the queue for the other questions. Thank you very much, sir. Thanks.
Thanks. Thanks, Ali.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nihal Mahesh Jham from Ambit. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Good evening, sir, Ganesh, Deepanjan. Am I audible?
So you're sounding a lot more so.
Sorry, thank you. Sorry, am I audible now?
Much better.
Yes. Good evening, sir. So the first question was, if you look at the performance of this quarter, while you're seeing a 3% growth, obviously, last year in the same quarter, we've seen a sharp fall in our performance because of the ARS issue. And if I compare our numbers, say, to FY 2022 for similar quarters, versus the 3% growth in the Q3 quarter, this time around, it's actually lower by 10% versus Q4 of FY 2022. So when you look at it from that perspective, is there any aspect that you would want to highlight for maybe the moderation in sales? Because last year, obviously, you had the one-off ARS impact, so maybe the YOY comparison may not be relevant.
You know, if you compare with the year before, you know, there was post-pandemic, there was a huge upset.
Everybody had record quarters, so it's not a fair comparison because there was huge demand at that time. And you know, as I told you in my opening remarks also, now there has been a sluggishness in the market. So considering that, we have performed well, and that is because of various initiatives we have taken. And we also ensured that for all of the initiatives we have taken, is to ensure the sustained growth. And we have not taken any initiatives to buy sales of, or taken shortcuts to boost sales. We have been focusing on the hygiene because we need to look at the long term of the business. And as Karthik rightly said sometime back, we have been also taking initiatives to improve the inventory health of our dealers or distributors.
When we do try to do that, obviously the primaries may not be in line with secondaries, because we have to reduce their inventory, which will help us in the long run. We have to look at it in that context, by keeping the long term aspects of the business in mind. In that sense, I think we have performed fairly well.
Sure, sir. Point taken on that. Just one clarification then, that when you say, making plans for the coming year in terms of the growth, the performance in FY 2024 is a fair reflection, and there wouldn't be any adjustments or one-off you would believe that. You would be targeting your growth on the performance you've achieved for this full year, right?
Nihal, I couldn't get you there. Can you please repeat?
I'm so sorry. I was saying that then basically the performance of this INR 4,600 crores of sales in FY 2024 is the base on which we would want to grow ahead, and not that there are any one-off adjustments which would have made this number higher.
So as I told sometime back also, we are looking at a growth and we are prepared operationally to fulfill those demands and requirements. However, from a budgeting point of view, from a control point of view, I would rather look at, closely watch the market and respond to the market, which remains sluggish, you know, and if you can see that from the peer companies also. So this is where we need to keep a close watch and respond to the market while protecting the margins and making sure the hygiene is nowhere diluted.
Okay, got it. Just one last question. If I look at our multi-brand outlet and even this time, the EBO count, that is, MBO has been contracting for the last two quarters. This time even EBO has seen a bit of, moderation. So is this exercise gonna continue now for a couple of more quarters, or where are we in terms of rationalizing the network that we have?
Karthik, you want to clarify?
Yes. See, on the expansion front, I think last year there was also a drive for consolidation, like you pointed out, both on the MBO side as well as the EBO side. The EBO side, the net increase for the year might seem smaller, but the expansion, pure expansion is in line with what we've been achieving year after year. Last year, the exception has been that there has been cases of consolidation and relocation. We've gone on a drive to make sure that we move to better locations, larger locations, larger properties within the same catchment, so that we're able to service the consumer better. Our portfolio has grown quite a bit, when compared to when these stores were launched, a few years ago.
So there has been need for us to shut down a few stores and find larger properties within the same catchment, so that we can house the entire portfolio of the brand and provide consumer service. The reason you've seen some level of consolidation in the last financial year, which I see also happening, maybe for parts of this year, maybe the first half of this year, but thereafter, I think we would have, in a way, settled into having majority of our stores in the sizes that we want them to operate.
Sure. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Gaurav Jogani from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Sir, thank you for the opportunity. My first question also is with regards to the network. I mean, if we, we see the number of EBO cities, the EBO cities somehow, you know, seems to have contracted quite a bit from around 400+ cities to now 280 odd cities. So is that a right, right number, in the presentation?
Karthik? I will have to come back on that in terms of the towns of EBOs. I don't see that there is a contraction in the overall number of EBOs. There is-
Yeah.
In fact, an increase year on year. We'll have to come back on that particular number.
Yeah, Citi is actually showing 218, and this was 468 the last quarter. So if you can, you know, check and let us know later, that will be helpful.
Yeah, I think we need to check that and clarify this back to you, because our EBOs have grown and our current EB by end March, our EBO count was around 1,382. So-
Yes. Yes, sir.
Yeah, we will clarify after relooking at the presentation deck.
Sure. Sure, sir. Thank you for that. And sir, the next question, you know, is with regards to the overall revenue growth. Now, if we look at it, the last year, the base quarter, you know, witnessed a 12% kind of revenue decline, and on that, we grew, managed to grow only 2%. And within that also, if you look at it, the net realization has actually declined by 3%. So, what would you allude this to? Is it that, you know, while there has been some movement in the inventory, however, the primary sales are not happening that much, given that the secondary is still clearing. So would you allude this to the overall impact on the revenue growth?
Well, you know, one is of course, as I told you some time back, the market, you know, and that is something, we have to wait and watch, and, we are not lost share to competition, that I can tell you very clearly. In fact, we have only gained. And the second is, as Karthik said some time back, the distributor inventory has reduced. Had we gone by the old method of pushing inventory to the distributors and focus solely on primaries, we could have got more, more top line, you know? And in fact, three to four days of, revenue is sanctioned, we could have recorded that. But we are looking at the long term, we are looking at the overall hygiene and the inventory health of our partners.
So in that sense, you know, I think we are going in the right direction.
Sure. So, sir, the question, you know, largely is, I mean, would this pattern is expected to continue for at least couple of more quarters? You know, given the fact that there is no festive season around, at least in the couple of quarters then. So would you have expect, you know, this to continue in the near term?
See, you know, we have to wait for how the monsoon is. The interest rate is something we are still be looking at, how it is going to be. You know, we, the elections, the results have to come and the, the new government and the policy. So, but overall, I think this can't last, so later part of the year should be good. But, you know, as I told you some time back also, it's always good to look for a gradual uptake. In the meantime, we are all the initiatives when it comes to enhancing our product line, we have all the initiatives to come with more exciting products, improve our existing products, improving the inventory health of the distributors so that new products can be launched and discovered consumers, which is very exciting.
Our EBOs are actually there is a good refresh in the inventories there, so there are much exciting products reaching there. You can see our Jockey.in, our new website. It is very, very consumer friendly, very interesting. And the refreshed user interface has enhanced our consumer experience, and we are seeing a robust growth as far as city channels are concerned, and we will continue to focus on that. So, you know, when it comes to marketing brand building, you might have already seen the various initiatives we are taking, and I'm sure it is catching your eye. So we are doing all that is necessary, and therefore, we are confident that, you know, the long term looks very positive, and we are very confident that it can grow.
Sure, sir. Thank you. And last question from my end would be, if you can give some color on the, some of the categorical, performance, like, how, you know, how the men's, women's or the, the athleisure part of the business would have grown?
Deepanjan, you want to give a perspective there?
Yeah. So I think in this particular quarter, while men's innerwear has grown in line with this 6% volume growth that we are looking at, we see positive trends in women's innerwear as well. So the growth has been good in this quarter, although it is lesser than what we are typically used to the that in intimate category. But yes, compared to the men's innerwear, the women's innerwear has shown a better growth. And other areas like accessories and socks, we have seen a very good growth.
And so on the athleisure part, would that be a positive growth or, you know, that would be still negative on a YOY basis?
On a YOY basis, for the quarter, Athleisure has shown a growth. Whereas for the entire year, we are still since the first half are subdued, we are still down for the entire year. But for the quarter, we have seen a growth.
Okay, sir, thank you for answering my question, and all the best.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants in the conference, please restrict your questions to two per participant. If you have any follow-up questions, you may rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Somil Mehta from Kotak Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. So two questions. One is, on slide 11, you have mentioned about marketing strategy, wherein, there is a disproportionate investment towards men and kids, sorry, towards women and kids segment. Can you highlight some of the initiatives and internally, how one should look at the ROI on these kind of initiatives?
Mr. Mehta, I think Karthik is the right person to comment on that.
Yeah. Hi, Somil. See, on the marketing investment point of view, we of course look at-
... ACOS as a metric, not necessarily ROI for each of the category levels, because there is a lot, a lot of spill-on effect on the entire brand, unless some of the key categories that we carry and the brand is better known for. So ROI may not be the right metric there, but it is a stated strategy from the brand to have disproportionate investments towards these categories, where our penetration levels are relatively lower at the consumer level. These are women's innerwear, where we've had bras as our mainstay campaign for last year. The campaign titled, "Bras as versatile as I am," was our Diwali launch for last year, both on TV as well as outdoor hoardings. Juniors, when compared to the revenues, definitely the investments in marketing is going to be disproportionate.
We've also just gone live with our first television commercial ever for Jockey Juniors, which is on air every week. And large portion of the production costs that were incurred in getting that film in shape was in quarter four last year.
So just as a follow-up, how as a percent- broadly, as a percentage of sales versus the company average, what will you spend in the women and kids category?
It's best we look at it as an overall, because we don't see PNL individually for a category. We rather look at it for the entire brand, like I said, because there is a huge rub off effect. So overall, we maintain it at 4%-4.5% for the brand. And within that, again, large portion of investments are category agnostic. Everything that we do on the BTL side, which is significant portion of our marketing investments, is actually category agnostic. It supports a retail setup rather than particular category. So it's best to look at it at a brand level, which, as I mentioned, is between 4% and 4.5%.
Sure. And my second and last question, sir, I mean, one of your smaller peer has reported numbers, and also when I look at last couple of quarters, some of the smaller guys have done better, at least on the PNL front. Now, you have mentioned about increase in competitive intensity, both for organized and unorganized. But, within a relatively subdued performance, how much would be the attribute to the rationalization of the MBOs, and how much would be to segments or categories where consciously we choose to not be present on those?
Oh, there is certainly some portion of our revenue erosion, which can be attributed to, you know, the number of touchpoints coming down. But this is—I believe is a natural normalization that we are seeing post-pandemic. Majority of the erosion in stores are in the non-traditional grocery formats, which otherwise don't carry the categories which we play in. These were the outlets and stores that were, you know, recruited into the category in the post-pandemic era, where, you know, there was a good fit for revenue generation for the store, and of course, it added to the footprint of the brand as well.
But it's only natural that while we normalize these stores, concentrate more on their core offerings, and minimize their presence in the food space and the athleisure space that we operate in. So yes, there will be certain level of attrition over there for sure.
Sure. Thank you so much, and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Arpit Tapadia from IGE Family Office. Please go ahead.
Hi, I'm Arpit?
Yes.
Yes.
Good evening. On the point number eight of the notes, it has been mentioned that you have received a favorable order from CESTAT. Can you throw more light on the same?
Sorry, we were not able to make out. The line was not clear. Can you please repeat your question?
Yeah. Over the point number 8 into the notes, you have mentioned that you have received a favorable ruling from CESTAT against the order. So can you just throw some more light over the scene?
Oh, okay. So, if we can, sometime back in 2022, 2023, we had received, we were undergoing investigation from DRI, Indirect Taxes, relating to certain undervaluation in customs duty for imports. And we did get an order sometime in last year from the customs office, asking us to remit additional duty on the allegation that our customs duty valuations were undervalued. So we did, while we pursued the case, we also voluntarily paid around three-quarters of customs duty to pursue the matter legally through the appeal process. So there was a subsequent hearing sometime in October last year, and we got the orders early in late March or early April.
So in this order, it has been in our favor, and the CESTAT has ruled that there has not been any undervaluation. So it has been a favorable order, and what we have done has been legally upheld.
Okay. So entire demand has been got down?
... Yes, the entire order is in our favor, and whatever there was an issue, that has been overruled.
Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shirish Pardeshi from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, Ganesh, Karthik, thanks for the opportunity. I just want one clarification. You mentioned the quarter four volume was 45.3 million pieces.
Pardon?
What was the quarter four volume you mentioned?
Yeah, it was,
Yeah. So 45.3 million pieces.
Yeah, 45.3 million pieces.
So the question here is that the ARS implementation, and now we have a better inventory control. So when we look back one year, what have we achieved in terms of ARS implementation? And if optimally, you will look at 45.3 million is the volume what we have got, against that, what would be a ballpark number the trade inventory would be existing, maybe in terms of days or maybe in terms of volume?
Karthik, in terms of absolute volume, I'll need to work that out.
If you're looking for inventory days, so we are at inventory days of 93 days at the end of the quarter, of which, finished goods will be around 70 days.
Yeah, that's our inventory. What I'm trying to understand, at the MBO level, if we take one channel, against this inventory would be three times, four times higher?
Not exactly. So what we... Against the 45.3 million pieces, three times, four times higher? Not at all. This is the volume we've achieved in a quarter, right? And if you look at the annual volume, which was reported, is about 208.3 million. Right? So that's about a monthly average of about 17 million pieces. The inventory in the channel outside of Page, which we have access to, which is the channel partners, and I'm not counting the retailer inventory, should be give or take about 20 million pieces.
Okay. Yeah. Actually, that was the number I was looking, because you have now control on the ARS implementation.
Okay.
I got that. Second, on the slide 11, you mentioned that there is a significant growth expected into the athleisure market over the next decade. Now, when we look back last two years, the athleisure segment is somehow not firing as per our expectation in terms of offtake. So then from the marketing lens, are we trying to say that once inventory normalization happens for athleisure loungewear, we will try and get more new formats and new segments, and that's why I'm connecting the dot? The e-commerce sales would have come down significantly because of the lower throughput or lower demand on the athleisure?
Not exactly. So I think, what we are also experiencing specifically in the athleisure segment has got to do with the channel inventory that we are carrying, right? And this is, like I mentioned earlier, a normalization that we are experiencing. We saw a huge jump in our primary revenues for athleisure immediately after the pandemic for two reasons. One is obviously the consumer demand for products like these really shot up, as well as the inventory in the channel was quite dry. So we were able to leverage both these opportunities to show the kind of results we did.
Now, with normalization in place, while the relevance for athleisure as a category is lower than what it was during the pandemic, as well as, channel inventory coming under, steady shape, we are experiencing that over the last couple of years. Now, this is again, in relative terms to the pandemic stage, but overall, if you look at it, athleisure as a category is definitely seeing, a trend towards growth. Purely from a, from a consumer understanding point of view and, trend mapping point of view, at a consumer level, athleisure is certainly going to grow. It's about making sure that our product portfolio is ready to cater to that demand, and the supply chain, gets lean and stable in order to cater to that demand.
That's the effort that we've been putting in over the last couple of years. So once the channel inventory is in shape and, you know, the consumer demand that we expect from athleisure to be back, we should see growth. And the projection there is over a decade, and I think there is fair level of confidence that that outlook would be what we put on the slide. Yeah.
One follow-up here, you harp on channel inventory, but across all MBO large format, every place the inventory is a problem, or any particular channel the inventory is under control and is faring well?
So, relatively speaking, our exclusive brand store channel is better under control because the maturity of ARS in that channel is much better than what it is in trade. It's also because we introduced ARS first in that channel, and we are also able to, in a way, influence inventory holding right up to the store level, because they're exclusive brand store. Whereas in the trade channel, the inventory levels at the store level is something that is beyond our control at this point in time, and our influence is restricted to the inventory levels at the channel partner level, which is the distributor level.
... So in relative terms, I would say the efficiency in terms of the inventory holding will be way better in the exclusive brand stores.
Okay. And then just to add to what Karthik said, and just to clarify, if you look at it, if you look at uncertain, the inventory problem is also part of pressure which the industry went through. In fact, there has been lot of this, and there has been lot of liquidation happening by the peer brands. Lot of very, very, very attractive schemes given to liquidate stock. So when the retailer's inventory goes, you know, it affects everybody. So we are trying to maintain high, and this in effect it also the distributor. So this is a vicious cycle, you know, but I'm happy to say, like, we are in a much, much better position today.
I think we have a lesser problem compared to all the peers, and that's why I keep reiterating that we'll be the first ones to bounce back, you know? And it's also heartening to see that now everybody has realized we need to focus on hygiene, and therefore, I can see some normalcy returning as far as the push model is concerned. And this, this is actually good, you know, and this will... Now, going forward, I think our
That's really helpful. Just last question on the competitive pressure. What kind of pressure or which markets you're seeing? Is it primarily from the uncertain or, or it is because of from the volume perspective? Because competition is dropping the prices, what you said, but this is happening. I mean, I'm sure it would have been over by now.
Yeah, I think it is over by now because it is not sustainable, you know, in the long run, because at the end of the day, you have to remain profitable to grow and sustain the business. So at best, you can have these short-term interventions, so I don't think it can last.
Okay. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashish Kanodia from Citi. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. So the first question was on the demand trend. So in your earlier, in your opening remarks, you said, you know, toward the end of the quarter, there was some uptake. So given that we are already almost, you know, 1.5+ months into the current quarter, just, you know, qualitatively, how has been the demand trend? Do you see that the uptake is continuing or, I mean, just wanted your sense on the overall market condition and the demand trends?
Well, as far as demand trend is concerned, you see, if we look at it, Mr. Ashish, at long term, first let me tell you, if you look at it, the consistent CAGR of around 11% observed for the last six years, even amidst all these interruptions caused by the pandemic and other macro factors, it's clear indicator of a very robust trend. And, the ocean full of opportunities which are lying before us. I personally feel as a brand, we're in the right place at the right time, because India is a wonderful growth story, with the economy growing at a very good pace, the middle income group growing at a faster pace, young coming population, which is very aspirational, and rapid urbanization.
There is an increased organization, organized retail happening, and these are all integral factors which will contribute to sustained growth in India. You know, so we are very, very optimistic. We have also taken our own initiatives as far as expansion is concerned, both in terms of geographic reach and multi-channel strategy, and also in product diversification. We are set to serve as a catalyst, and these are all going to be a catalyst for our growth.
Uh, right.
So, you know, we look at, you know, this as a transient phase, where demand is yet to resume in the innerwear and apparel. We feel this is just a passing phase, and our proactive approach involves continued investment in shaping the future.
Sure, sure, sir, that's helpful. And just on a similar line, right, I think on the earlier question you highlighted that at least the you know practices by the peers has improved a lot. And you also talked about increased investment in branding and marketing. So, I mean, I'm just trying to understand from a margins perspective as we head into the first half, because there's a hope that second half should soon see relatively better growth, given all the macro trends.
But as you look at the first half and, you know, given the investment you are doing in branding, marketing, IT, et cetera, do you see that, you know, the first half margins could be slightly subdued, and in the second half, as things improve, that will kind of help you to achieve that 19%-21% kind of a margin for full year? Is that understanding correct?
... and thank you for forward-looking insights. But let me tell you, you know, sometimes if there are disproportionate investments in marketing or IT, it is up to the timing of the spend, you know? That particular quarter may have an impact, but overall, looking at it, we have taken a- we are budgeting, we have taken a conservative approach and try to control expenses. We have distinguished clearly between expenses and investments. We want to control expenses, but we want to make all the rightful investments, because we are very optimistic about the long-term prospects, and therefore, we continue to stay invested. We have taken all that into account, and by shaping the budget to protect our margins.
So, though I may not be able to talk about how we will take a quarter fee, we ensured that, you know, we protect our margins for the year, and that is the initiatives which we have taken. And we are also building enough flexibility or levers in our system wherein we can control costs based on the top line. We have been focusing on having more variable costs and less sunk costs or fixed costs, so that we can actually manage the business according to the top line. And therefore, we have more enough and more levers in our hands to manage the business properly, and that confidence we have.
Sure, sir, very helpful. Just last, a bookkeeping question. In terms of the online sales mix and growth, if you can share both for the current quarter as well as for full year, what was the, you know, overall contribution of online sales, and what was the year-on-year growth?
For the quarter of e-commerce business has contributed almost 8%+, and it has grown quite well. It has grown almost 30% for the year-on-year. For the entire year, it is slightly less as far as contribution is concerned, it is around 7%+ for the e-commerce business, and it is growing phenomenally.
Sure, sir, that's very helpful. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sheila Rathi from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for taking my question. Sir, you highlighted that, you know, the pricing-related discounts have come down from competition. I just wanted to understand what is the inventory situation for competition now? How close we are to, you know, inventory getting normalized for competition? Because last quarter, you had called out that, you know, until the competition settles with respect to the inventory, the demand recovery could take longer. So that was my first question.
Unfortunately, Sheila, we may not have full insight as regards the inventory are concerned, which is very internal to their operations. But, you know, I think the worst is over. Second thing, which I can say, is we do have loyal consumers who actually are wedded to our brand. It is just question of the retail environment picking up, and we should do well. I think we may not be getting too much influence by the practices of the competition. I think the worst is over, but only time can answer that.
Right. And to that, you know, we are taking efforts to take up our ad spends. So just to understand how what would have been our ad spend number in FY 2024?
So, as it has been around 3.9% in FY 2024, and for the entire year, we have spent around INR 184 in FY 2024.
That's the momentum we'll continue to maintain going ahead also, I believe.
Typically, as we explained earlier, that we typically spend around 4-4.5% of revenue as ad spend, so that momentum will continue.
Okay. Just one clarification. You know, Karthik, you mentioned that the retail channel inventory is about INR 20 million. Just want to understand what is an ideal number here, which one would want to have, or how far we are from the ideal number here?
Again, it varies from category to category, Sheila. I think in the Innerwear business, we are largely where we want to be. Of course, there is opportunity for us to optimize it further, but I think we are not far away from what we believe is a healthy inventory for all channel partners as well as franchisees. Whereas for categories like Athleisure, we are slightly on the higher side now, which, like I mentioned, is correcting itself month after month. We are also not trying to do this inorganically, because that upsets the mix that the channel partner holds, and hence we're giving it the time to correct itself through the ARS system.
Great. Just one final question. You know, I think online is doing very well for us and strong growth trends, and you called out 8% share of revenues. Just any call out here in terms of what segment is doing well? Is it more multipacks, premium or entry-level, and from categories, men or women? I think that would be very helpful. Thank you.
I think it's consistent. We're not, we're not seeing a specific trend which is favoring, growth in, in the, e-commerce space.
... The trend is consistent across categories as well as price points. I would imagine it is one of the cues towards consumer buying patterns. And the good part is that we've equipped ourselves both in terms of infrastructure as well as competency to cater to that demand, which is holding us in good stead.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashutosh from UBS. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you, sir. Thank you for taking my question. So my question is also on the competitive intensity. So, if you see, there are like already many private labels or the unlisted players in this space, and recently their analyst mentioned Trent management also highlighted that some percentage of their portfolio is also competing with Jockey. So, just want to understand, like, with the kind of retail expansion that Trent is doing and along with the long list of unlisted under ware players, how do you see the overall growth for Page, at least in the medium to long term? So any remark on that would be really helpful, sir.
Yeah. So, you know, if you see the market penetration, we, you know, we have been updating on that. We in the teens as well as men's innerwear is concerned, and in single digits in other category, and we are the most dominant player. And then, so that can clearly tell you how fragmented the market is, and there is so much, like, room for growth. And, therefore, you know, that what you said should not actually affect us. And we, we have been focusing on expanding our distribution. We have been closer to our consumers, through our retail expansion, and we, we have been present across all towns. And this approach has proven instrumental in effectively catering to the demands of these markets.
It is also crucial to understand that the substantial consumers are gradually transitioning from economy segment to the premium segment, you know? So the shift actually indicates a very promising trajectory, and we know that this is going to pursue, and that is going to be good news for us. As long as we can continue to be a value for money brand, give quality products, position the brand wherein they feel proud to own the brand and flaunt the brand, and if we maintain the hygiene in the marketplace, I don't see anybody stopping us.
Okay. Thank you, sir. That's very helpful. That's all from my side, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ankit Kedia from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead.
Sir, could you just share what has been the like-to-like growth in the EBO channel first for the quarter and for the year?
So, Ankit, usually, we don't share those specifics because it is in our interest and in your interest that we don't do that, because it is... This is something which will help the competition to shape their strategy. But what I can tell you is, during the second part of the year, the EBOs have started showing growth, like-to-like growth, which is a good sign as far as the retail environment is concerned, because that is the right barometer to see the market. In fact, especially in Q4, we could see good improvements. So that gives us room for a lot of optimism.
Is it fair to assume that the like-for-like growth is ahead than the company's revenue growth, overall?
Rahul, you want to take?
No, I think, to answer this, the like-to-like growth in EBOs has been subdued. You can say that it has crossed the company's overall growth parameter. But as Mr. V.S explained, the second half has been better. Whereas first half, it was kind of flattish. But yes, we have seen improvements.
My second question is on the price changes. While in your presentation and in some of your answers, you did allude that you might not take price increases in the year and you are, you know, doing a lot of innovation for that. What we are hearing in the market is you are introducing or introduced lower price point products in Athleisure. Can you please talk some on that?
So sorry, Ashish, the last part of the question was not clear. What you have heard in the market is?
Sir, are you introducing lower price point products in the athleisure category?
Well, we always, you know, our, our commitment to be a value for money brand, that remains unwavering, and this is deeply ingrained in our core pricing strategy. And, we actually keep a finger on the pulse as far as market is concerned and, introduce products based on market demands and the market sentiments. We, when we introduce products and at various price points, basically based on the feedback, we actually don't do anything specific for tier one, tier two, tier three, and metros. We treat them equal because our TG is the same, they just happen to be in these lists. So the introduction of maybe at a, a, Athleisure product at a lower price category, it, it is definitely based on the feedback which, which comes from the market and based on the consumer requirement.
Because as a brand, we always give consumer first. That has been our priority, and we try and give the best product for the different price.
So, is the feeling that the Athleisure has become expensive for the middle class consumer, and hence, incrementally, more product launches would happen at a lower price point and value for money price point?
Actually, we are seeing our consumers upgrading themselves, going for more premium products. If you see overall, across industry also, you can see the trend for premiumization. You know, that's where I said our, our product management team actually wants to cater to all segments, where we play on, and we position our, the price layering and position of products based on the market, but play within the TG, which we are focusing on. To answer your question, generally, we see people opting for more premium products.
Sure. And sir, my last question is on the product introduction in the women's innerwear category. You know, what are the gaps still pending out there, over the next couple of years? Where do you see from a product gap perspective, which would be, you know, addressed by the company?
Karthik, you want to clarify? Karthik, if you want to give some more color on the first part of the question also, you're most welcome to do that.
Sure. Thank you, V.S. Ganesh. On the first part, firstly, I think our product introduction strategy has been consistent across price points, so there is no undue focus towards entry-level price points. In fact, we've seen better traction for you know the upper end of our product offering across e-commerce as well as EBOs as well as the general trade channel. So, in terms of the quantum of launch, in terms of number of styles that is getting launched, I think it is equally distributed across all our price points. Coming to the... Your question was on women's innerwear in specific, Ankit?
Yes. Yes, absolutely, right, sir.
With women's innerwear, I think we've reached a fair amount of maturity in our product presence. I mean, a lot of work and a lot of new introductions over the last three years has brought us to a good space, I would say, where we address much of the both solutions as well as need states of consumers when it comes to intimate wear within the space that we as a brand operate. So going forward, I think there would be a few more solution-based products that is planned for introduction. But other than that, I think, let's say, the bra category today is quite wide and caters to all consumer needs in that particular category.
Much, much, wider than what it was, let's say, three to four years ago. And this has been consistent efforts towards that. So what you will see going forward is refreshment, a lot of upgrades and a lot more consolidation within the portfolio.
If I could just squeeze in one more question, if time permits. You know, in kids' wear category, there was a feedback that, you know, our product needs to be upgraded and price points need to be lowered there as well. Now with the new juniors campaign, what has happened at the back end that prompted you to be so aggressive, you know, with the juniors campaign in the market? Have we refreshed the full portfolio for the kids category?
No, our portfolios across categories undergo consistent refreshment year on year, broken into two seasons, and it's no different for the kids portfolio as well. In fact, for the kids portfolio, the refreshment is a little more frequent because we need to keep that freshness for that particular TG. So, unlike for men and women, where it happens twice a year, here it happens almost four times a year. The campaign is something that we would have anyway done. We were just waiting for sufficient penetration in the market. We could have done this three years ago, but then waited for the pandemic to, in a way, wean out.
And then once we believed we had sufficient presence on the ground in terms of touch points, we thought it right for us to take the ATL route of communication. And again, in ATL route, I'm specifically meaning the TV route. Otherwise, Jockey Juniors has been on outdoor for almost 3-4 years now.
Thank you, Karthik, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we would take that as our last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Deepanjan for closing comments.
Thanks, everybody. Thanks, again, for joining us and for the insightful discussions. We do look forward to such in time, insightful discussions again. Thank you again.
Thank you very much, members of the management. On behalf of Page Industries Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us.