Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4 and FY25 earnings conference call of Page Industries Limited. As a reminder, all participants' names will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Nupur Jain Kunia from Valiram Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.
Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and a very warm welcome to you all. My name is Nupur Jain Kunia from Valiram Advisors. We represent the investor relations of Page Industries Limited on behalf of the company and Valiram Advisors. I would like to thank you all for participating in the company's earnings conference call for the fourth quarter and the financial year 2025. Before we begin, a quick cautionary statement. Some of the statements made in today's earnings conference call may be forward-looking in nature. Such forward-looking statements are subject to risk and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ from those anticipated. Such statements are based on management beliefs as well as assumptions made by and information currently available to management. Audiences are cautioned not to place any undue reliance on these forward-looking statements in making any investment decisions.
The purpose of today's conference call is purely to educate and bring awareness about the company's fundamental business and financial quarter under review. Now, I would like to introduce you to the management participating with us in today's earnings conference call and hand it over to them for opening remarks. We have with us Mr. V.S. Ganesh, Managing Director; Mr. Dipanjan Bandyopadhyay, Chief Financial Officer; and Mr. Karthik Yathindra, Chief Executive Officer of the company. Without any further delay, I request Mr. V.S. Ganesh to start with his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you very much, Nupur. Ladies and gentlemen, a very good afternoon, and welcome to the earnings call for the fourth quarter of FY25. As Nupur told you, in today's call, I have Mr. Dipanjan, our CFO, and Mr. Karthik Yathindra, our Chief Executive Officer, along with me. I will briefly dwell into the past year before getting into the further details of the quarter. FY25 was characterized by rapid shifts in economic, geopolitical, and technological tailwinds, humbling us to remain agile and responsive. While inflationary pressures constrained consumer spending, particularly in the first half of the year, our ability to adapt was very evident in the overall strong performance of ours, especially in our e-commerce channels. We also responded proactively to the evolving landscape, aligning our product offerings with shifting customer needs and expectations. This is reflected in our growth trajectory.
In such a volatile environment, we continue to focus on enhancing the value to our consumers without passing on any price rise. While maintaining tight control over expenses, we continue to invest strategically to support the organization's sustained growth objectives. In line with this, our digital transformation initiatives, including advancements in the distribution management system, the transformation of our SAP core, and enhancements in consumer engagement are progressing as planned. The refreshed jockey.in website and mobile app have been well received by our consumers. This reflects our strong commitment to improving our users' and consumers' experience. Our new production facility in Odisha is now ready to begin commercial operations. Additionally, the broader adoption of the auto-replenishment system has contributed to more effective inventory management.
Coming to the quarter, in Q4, which is typically our leanest of all the quarters, I am pleased to share that we have achieved a PAT growth of 51.6%, a robust revenue growth of 10.6%, and this, supported by stable fabric prices and optimized overheads, has contributed to a healthy operating margin. For the full year, we achieved a revenue increase of 8% and a profit after-tax growth of 28%. Our timely interventions in inventory management and efforts to enhance overall supply chain efficiencies have not only supported market growth but have also contributed to a strong and healthy financial performance. Our consumer reach through diverse sales channels continues to expand. At the close of FY25, we have a network of more than 111,000 multi-brand stores, 1,453 exclusive brand stores, and 1,803 large-format point-of-sales. Our online network through jockey.in, mobile app, and several online aggregators continues to expand.
We express our sincere appreciation for your tremendous support and trust in our company. Mr. Dipanjan will now take you through the specifics of the quarters. Followed by this, we look forward to your questions, and we'll be more than happy to answer them. Thank you once again for joining this call today.
Thank you, V.S. Ganesh. Good afternoon and welcome to today's earnings call. Let me share the results of Q4 and for full year of FY25. Touching upon the key financials for Q4, we recorded sales volume of 49.2 million pieces, which was a growth of 8.5% year-on-year. Revenue in Q4 was INR 10,981 million, which was a growth of 10.6% year-on-year. EBITDA for the period was INR 2,352 million, a growth of 43.2% year-on-year. EBITDA margin was 21.4%. With stable raw material costs, sustained higher production efficiency, and controlled operating costs, EBITDA margins were maintained within our planned range of 19%-21%. There has not been any price increase in the quarter. PAT for the period was for the quarter was INR 1,640 million, which was a growth of 51.6% year-on-year. Inventory days were 64, as against 93 days at the beginning of the year.
Working capital days were 54, against 75 days in the end of FY2024. We continue to be debt-free. For annual FY2025, sales volume was 219.6 million pieces, which was a growth of 5.5%. Revenue was INR 49,349 million, resulting in growth of 8%. EBITDA was INR 10,626 million, which was a growth of 23.6%. EBITDA margin in the full year was 21.5%. PAT was INR 7,291 million, resulting in growth of 28.1%. To summarize, our sustained focus to deliver value to consumers through product quality, enhancement, communication, and customer reach has resulted in good revenue and profit growth. We continue to make the right investments, including in technology, while remaining cost-conscious. We can now take up your queries.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Sheila Rathy from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Thanks for taking my question. My first question was with respect to the volume growth. The number has been at 8.5%, much higher than what we have seen in the recent past. How would you evaluate this performance for this quarter on the volume side? Is it as per your expectations, or is it ahead of your expectations?
Yeah. So for us, the volume growth, yes, when we were looking at Q3, I can say Q4 was in line with the expectation. If you look at it overall, retail environment continues to be tepid, and therefore, it has not reached the levels which we want it to be in. People still are not buying as they used to. Especially now, we feel next year things should improve with tax exemptions being given, a bountiful monsoon being projected. We see that the real estate inflation is at an all-time low. If you look at the last six years and now, this is the lowest. All these things are very favorable. We expect going forward, we should see better traction.
Understood. Just to understand, how should we think about the e-commerce growth for us this quarter and any insight in terms of the share of e-commerce as a part of the total revenue?
Sure. Karthik should be able to throw more light on that, Karthik.
Yes. Thank you, Ms. Sheila, for the question. E-commerce continues to be ahead of the rest of the channels in terms of growth rates. We've seen handsome growth, handsome double-digit growth as far as the e-commerce business is concerned. In terms of contribution to our business, a little over 10% of our business today comes from the e-commerce channel.
Thank you. My final question was with respect to the gross margin improvement that we saw this quarter. Anything significant to call out here to showcase such a strong improvement in the margin?
I think there are two major factors. Definitely, the stability in the raw material prices, especially fabric and other things, has been very positively taken and positively impacted. The second thing is, of course, the production efficiency that we have been seeing that has been the higher production efficiency that has been sustained. Majorly contributing these, I mean, combining these two factors has resulted in a higher gross margin.
There's something a level we can assume could continue for us if a similar environment remains going ahead. Is that a right assessment?
Yes, Sheila. If the similar environment definitely remains, I think we will be able to sustain it. Yes, I think we have to watch out if there's any volatility in the costing price, maybe at the end of the year because of these evolving situations geopolitically. Otherwise, I'll change hands now. I think we should be able to have a gross margin.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Siddharth Sivaswamy from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Yes. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question was again on volume. If you could talk about which segment specifically led to this 9.5% growth? Was it led by Innovare or Athleisure? Just the second part on the volume was that 40-45 days into the quarter, can you elaborate if the growth momentum has more or less sustained or has there been any other shift? That is my first question.
Thank you for the question. In terms of range-specific volume growth, it actually remained more or less consistent. Of course, at this point in time, since we are reflecting primary numbers, it is also a function of the inventory levels in the channel. Given that, Innovare at this point in time is showing marginally higher growth rates when compared to Athleisure. So is the case with Accessories, which is our socks, handkerchiefs, towels, and caps business. It is showing slightly higher volume growth when compared to Athleisure. That, I would believe, is largely a function of the inventory levels that we are carrying in the channel. In terms of your second question, without sharing too much in the current quarter, retail has remained consistent to what we witnessed in the last quarter.
Understood. That was helpful. The second question was, I mean, probably the budgeting exercise for the year would have been done. Any planned price hikes for FY26 that you'd like to call out?
I'll change hands now. We don't see any requirement of any pricing increase yet. In the near quarter, we definitely don't see any requirement of pricing increase.
Got it. I have a few more questions while joining the team.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shyam Sundar from Franklin Templeton. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, good evening. Thanks for taking my question. My question is on this focus category of women and kids. How has been the progress there? How does it reflect in terms of revenue momentum? Any color you can share in terms of the salience of the women and kids category in our business? Thank you.
The kids category in specific has grown above average through the brand growth rate. We've also seen, after considerable stabilization in the previous year after the pandemic season, the kids category is back into decent growth rates in relative terms. In terms of the women's business, again, it's split between Innovare and Outerwear. Our Innovare business seems robust and strong in terms of growth momentum, clocking growth rates at par with our men's business.
Outerwear is where I think we are holding higher inventory in the channel, which has reflected in slightly lower growth rates when compared to Innovare. Thank you.
Thank you. That's helpful. The other question is we continue to see very healthy improvement in EBITDA margins consistently over the last few quarters. This quarter, we have seen both gross margin expansion as well as healthy volume growth. In our business, what are the choices or trade-offs we make between volume and margins? What are some of the business choices we make on an ongoing basis? You did talk about favorable arm tailwinds, but are there any other choices that we have to make to keep up both the volumes and margins at very healthy levels? Thank you.
I think so.
Thank you. Yeah. No, I feel we are actually reaping the benefits of the actions which we have taken over the last few quarters. It takes time for us to see those benefits flowing in. That is what we are seeing. What we were doing is we took a lot of initiatives in improving the overall supply chain efficiency. We have taken so much measures to have a much better demand planning and demand sensing and resulting in improved demand accuracy. Now, this, along with supply chain efficiencies, good control over expenses, the action which we took on inventory controls and to bring inventory to normal or acceptable levels, all this has helped us to improve the bottom line. I feel as far as the distribution is concerned, the benefits of ARS is yet to fully kick in.
It will, as I keep telling in every call, it takes time for us to get the full benefit. We are seeing continuous improvement, and there is much more to come on that front. It is a combined effort of all these things falling in place. Also, splitting assets, controlling overheads, all this has really helped us. Dipanjan, you would like to add anything more to it?
No, I just wanted to add that our business philosophy has always been balanced profitable growth, and we are always driven by volume growth. As Andy said, given the fact that all these initiatives have taken, we have started seeing the benefits of these initiatives. Given the fact that the expenses are quite under control, that is what is reflecting in a very healthy EBITDA margin. We do expect that the EBITDA margin will be continued to maintain in this range of 19%-21%.
Understood, sir. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'll fall back into queue. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants, please limit your question to two per participant. If you have a follow-up question, I would request you to rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Devanshu Bansal from MK Global. Please go ahead.
Hi, Sridhar. Thanks for the opportunity. You indicated that there were no price hikes in Q4, so wanted to better understand this 2% increase in realization. Is it due to better growth in online channels for us?
It's a combination of largely three factors. Definitely, there is premiumization, which we are seeing within the categories as well as across categories. When I say across categories, once the growth has kicked in to Activision, that's also helping us to reflecting in the higher realization. Definitely, the increase in share of e-commerce where there is a mix of, I would say, better margins as well as the full price sales, that is helping in increasing the overall ASP as well. There's no price increase, but these two factors are giving a natural push to the average realization.
Understood. Sir, you mentioned that it's north of 10% now. What was it last year or maybe the growth in the e-commerce channel if you can call that out?
I think last year, our overall yearly growth in e-commerce was also in the range of 41% or so at an annual level. The growth momentum has been sustained.
Okay. Second question on margins. We have been delivering upwards of 19%-21% EBITDA margin band, right? When we sort of talked about sustaining the higher gross margin if conditions remain stable, I wanted to check any thoughts around the reason to this band?
No. I think, see, the way things are, it's not, I mean, there are always inflationary pressures. There will be salary increase. There will be wages increase. Those things will happen. We are also in a very aggressive phase of digital transformation, which has started to be getting more aggressive this year. All these, I would say, the overheads and the input factors will result in increase in cost for sure. At the same time, as I said, given the fact that raw materials are quite stable at this point of time, and we are not expecting any price increase or raw material cost increase in the near future. While we are not planning for any price increase, at the same time, the cost will increase. Given these two factors, we are still confident that the margin will be in this range of 19%-21%.
Understood. Can you call out this mix of digital and marketing spend for this year and what is expected next year? Any increase or whatever way you can help us understand that?
We typically spend 4%-5% every year on marketing, including digital. That's what will continue.
IT spend things?
IT spend typically has been historically less than 1%. Yes, I think the past year, that is FY2025 and even FY2026, it will be something in the range of 1.25%-1.5%.
Got it. Thanks for taking my question.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Teju Shah from Avendus Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Congrats on the set of numbers also. I just wanted to know, in a very tough environment, we have been able to drive a very strong premiumization. I was just wondering what clicked for us. Was this a product mix change or channel mix which contributed significantly?
Teju Shah. Yeah. Go ahead, please.
No, I think I was telling Karthik to take it. Yes, Teju, to answer your question, I think it has been a natural premiumization which is happening across our consumer base. People are scaling up given the fact that the purchasing power has been increasing. Within the categories, also, people are scaling up to higher price point products, which I think, given the product features that we have, which is much more enriched, there is a preference for scaling up. That is the premiumization within the categories. E-commerce definitely has a play because, one, as long as we are selling to D2C, that is a marketplace and jockey dotting, we have the full price advantage there. That is also kind of pushing up the average realization.
Got it. Second, listening to hearing your commentary so far, you seem to be very confident on revenue growth, premiumization, gross margins. Do you see an upside risk to your margin guidance on 19%-21%?
You mean upside risk or upside possibility?
Both, basically. Upside possibility on that number.
No. As we have said earlier, even now we are telling the same thing. We are comfortable in that range of 19%-21%. While we have not taken any pricing increase over the last few years, I mean, this is the third year continuously, it's not that we do not have inflationary pressures in our increased costs. That's there. Given the fact that with better sales, the overheads are much better leveraged, and we are sustaining the production efficiency. Without even price increase, we are quite confident that the margin range will be maintained. At the same time, since the additional expenses will happen, we do not see the margin going beyond this range.
Okay. Last one is, I mean, Odisha plant, will it bring some tax benefits or thoughts to us?
See, Odisha plant, within the overall production capacity that we have, it's still in the minor portion. We do have tax benefits there. When I say tax benefits, government subsidies, state government subsidies are there in terms of wages subsidy. Then there are some capital subsidies. So it is there. At an overall company level, it is not significant that it will affect the margin.
Sorry to interrupt, sir. I would request you to rejoin the queue for your follow-up question. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Gaurav Jogani from GM Financial. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question, sir. My first question is with regards to the Q4 performance. Now, this year, we also had a benefit of earlier EEs. Does that, in any sense, have helped us to have a better primary sales, and which probably could have an impact on the Q1 numbers?
Early EEs have definitely helped in retail performance, I would not say necessarily for primary sales. Better retail throughput is what you generally see. Again, EEs from the overall scheme of things affect select markets. There are parts of the country that get better traction because of EEs, which is something that we have obviously leveraged in Q4. In the overall scheme of things, given the contribution of these select markets to the overall business, we do not see a big swing which we have, in a way, advanced from Q1 to Q4.
Sure. Sir, the second and last question is with regards to these efficiencies, especially on the employee cost and other expenses side. Over the past couple of years, because post the COVID era, we were also having a lot of inventory which got utilized over the next two years. Hence, we were not in need of replacing the attrition. Now, since the volume growth has picked up, do you see costs now also coming back on this front?
Yes.
Gaurav, actually, overall manufacturing efficiencies have gone up. It has actually improved by around 18%-20% of what it used to be. That is one piece. Secondly, we have been working quite a lot on lead time reduction. Today, we can manage and service our customers with less inventory. That is where you are seeing that continuous reduction which you are seeing in the inventory side. Yes, there will be expansion of capacities, but it will be in line with the top-line growth which we are expecting. The cost will be commensurate with expanded sales or revenue. We also have other initiatives which we have put in place to have a much better overhead utilization or absorption. That is where Dipanjan was coming from.
Looking at the budgets and the expenses and the top-line revenue growth, we are very confident that we can maintain the 19%-21% range.
Sir, just a follow-up here. My question was earlier around, given that you are already driving so much of efficiency, and if the cost also increased in line with your top-line growth, shouldn't you be able to actually surpass the 21% kind of a margin that you are already 21.5% margin is what you've already done in effective price?
No, because there are also inflationary pressures. As Dipanjan rightly said, there are salary increases. There are wage increases, which should be accounted for. There is also a renewed investment on IT side. We need to continue to invest on the R&D side of it. In fact, one of the good things we have done last year is to come with very exciting products. We need to continue to invest on that. I will attribute quite a lot of our growth to having the right product at the right place at the right time, thanks to our R&D team or the product development team and ARS. We need to continue to have those investments. That is where I said we bake all that in our budget.
If I go by what we are planning in our budget, we are well within this targeted range of 19%-21% without any price increase. Unless there is a big challenge as far as the input costs are concerned, which we do not expect.
Sure. Thank you. That's all from me, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sameer Gupta from IIFL Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi sir. Good evening. Congrats on a good set of numbers, and thanks for taking my question. Firstly, sir, you mentioned the channel inventory on Athleisure is still a little on the higher side. Just wanted some color. Where are we right now in terms of distributor days in Athleisure? Where would we like to be on a normal basis? In just a relative term, how was this number pre-COVID?
Thank you, Sameer, for that question. Specifically on Athleisure, see, thanks to the ARS and the efforts that we've done there, we've brought down our inventory days by about seven days from when we started the year. We still feel there is a potential to bring it down by another seven to eight days as far as the partner inventory is concerned. In terms of prior to COVID days, we are still higher than what we used to carry prior to COVID days. It's during the COVID period that we saw ballooning of inventory significantly across the value chain, which is what we are looking to moderate now.
Just a follow-up here. When you say seven days, is this overall, or is this just for Athleisure? If you can give the number as to where it is right now, is it 45 days, 40 days?
Overall, we are at a little over 50 days as far as outerwear inventory is concerned. The seven days that I had mentioned is specifically for outerwear, which is Athleisure.
Got it. Got it. This is helpful. Secondly, sir, I noticed the dividend for the overall year is around INR 900 per share. This implies around 135% kind of a payout. CapEx this year has been very normal, around INR 80 crore. With growth coming back, just wondering how to read this dividend payout number. Is there enough capacity for the foreseeable future? How do we read this? As a policy, we typically pay out up to 60% of our PAT. That's as a policy. Together with it, we also assess what is our fund position. Given that this has been a reasonably good year, especially compared to the earlier years, we have enough funds. Therefore, we have declared higher dividends.
Yes, I will not get too much into it as to whether this will be a trend in future or it can be a reason for predicting future. It will definitely be that, yes, if you have enough funds, we will pay higher dividends. It will all depend on what is the fund position at that point of time. On that note, sir, can you also provide a guidance on CapEx for the coming years? I think next year, we just closed the budgeting process. I think we are planning for around INR 180 crore of CapEx for next year. Again, the CapEx is largely for the upcoming KRPEG II expansion that we have. Also, we are purchasing one more land at Odisha. These two factors predominantly, plus there are usual upgradations that happen. Taken together, the plan is around INR 180 crore for next year. Got it, sir.
I'll come back and look to you for any follow-ups. Thanks for this.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rishi Modi from Marcelus Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, guys. Am I audible?
Yes, sir.
Yes. Yeah. First thing I want to understand is your QCOM, ECOM space. Under the accounts of the, it's growing faster than the rest of the channels for us. Based on my understanding of the FMCG industry, it seems that the QCOM channel is a very high gross margin channel for the company, higher than the other channels, which is the right pack size or something on those lines. I'm just understanding, is that the case for you guys? Is that playing into the gross margin expansion that you are seeing?
You're right about the pace of growth or pace of expansion within the Quick Commerce business. That is something that we have witnessed as well. Also, it's an async business. A large portion of the growth there is inorganic because of expansion into more dark stores within existing players, as well as new players coming on board within this channel. We've experienced quite an aggressive jump in revenues there because of the inorganic impact. With regard to margins, our margins are not very different for the Quick Commerce business, meaning not very high when compared to the rest of the channels in terms of what we experience. Further, Quick Commerce, while the growth rates are significantly high, its current contribution to the overall business of Page is still quite small to have any impact on the overall gross margins of the brand.
Okay. Just a follow-up there. What I'm seeing still, at least a couple of quarters back, was that I think Jockey was the only listed player on Blinkit or Zepto. But recently, a lot of these other players have also started getting listing, like XYXX and all these other new-age brand values and all. Just to ask you, in higher competition and at an older dark store where you were dominant, are you losing shelf space or losing share of sales even if you are losing shelf space?
The other brands being present in these platforms is not recent. In platforms like, let's say, Blinkit or Zepto, which were the platforms that we entered into initially, this was, in fact, in 2023-2024 itself, also had competition back then. We had enough brands present over there. We've not seen any significant change in our presence as far as Quick Commerce is concerned because of competition in the recent times, let's say, in the last couple of quarters. In fact, like we do with the rest of the marketplaces in E-commerce, at this point in time, we continue to lead this particular category in Quick Commerce as well.
Second, I wanted to understand on the OPEX front from Dipanjan. If I look at your FY25 OPEX over FY24, and I remove the 80 basis points reduction from employee cost, then addressing that, there is a 130 basis points increase in OPEX as a percentage of revenue, excluding employee cost, on FY25 over FY24. I just wanted to understand what are the main component changes, line item changes that we have seen out here?
I think if you're comparing between an absolute value increase, a large portion of the value increase will be for things like royalty. It will be for things like e-commerce margins, which are.
I'm confusing percentage of revenue.
In terms of % of revenue. Okay.
Yeah. So see, OpEx is 35.3%. If I remove 15.6% in cost, that's this year. Last year it was 34.9%, including OpEx, employee benefit expense of 17.5%. There's a 130 basis points increase if I adjust for the employee cost benefits that we have received. Where has that investment gone? I just want to understand that extra 130 basis points that we have spent.
Two major factors definitely have been, one, the IT expenses, which has contributed to the increase. We also have marketing.
That's 25, 50 basis points. Correct?
Yeah. We also have marketing expenses increased this year. I would not say it is an increase because the previous FY2024 was slightly on the lower side, but otherwise, this year is more like a normal increase. These two will be the major factors. The rest of the expenses are more fixed in nature and have largely been consistent.
Okay. All right. All right. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Naveen Trivedi from Motilal Oswal Financial Services Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good evening, everyone. Just on this demand bit more better, you mentioned about a better section you expect for the next year. Does this confidence is because of you have seen better sales growth acceleration in the first 45 days of this financial year? Thanks, Naveen. No, I'm not commenting on the first 45 days. This is what we are targeting in terms of what we want to achieve for the next year. It's more an intent in terms of where we want to get to in the next year. It has no reference to what we've experienced in the first 45 days. You mentioned in your presentation about Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities outperforming Metro 1 and Tier 1 market. Can you quantify the divergence and as well as what revenue cities contribute to your portfolio?
The way we break our business in terms of down classification, Metro and Tier 1, Metro Tier 1, Tier 2 contribute to 50% of the business, and Tier 3 and 4 also contribute to 50% of the business, considering how we've penetrated our markets over the years. That's in terms of contribution of business. In terms of performance, we've seen between the two about 4 percentage points difference, where Tier 3 and 4 have outperformed the Metro and Tier 1.
Sure. Thank you so much and all the best to you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Preghna Chandranwala from Elara Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on the set of numbers. I had a question on Athleisure. Given that it took about a year to reduce inventory by around seven days in the channel, do you see the demand environment now conducive for faster depletion in inventory in this year and resumption of higher growth in Athleisure? What steps have you taken to do the same, if at all, this can be done?
Thank you, Preghna. You're right. I think we are definitely in a better position than where we were about a year ago. Like I mentioned, we intended to bring it down further by about seven to eight days so that we can operate at an optimum 45 days inventory level as far as Athleisure is concerned. Considering that some of the good work has already been done, we should be closer to secondary performance when compared to the difference we saw last year. Yes, it should be a lot more conducive than what we've experienced in the early parts of last year.
With regards to specific efforts for Athleisure, the way we operate our business is we break ourselves into categories and have specific business plans and inputs, both in terms of sales initiatives and inputs, as well as marketing and brand inputs to drive each category as a business of its own. In that light, Athleisure, of course, has a complete business plan put together, a dedicated sales team to operate, and a marketing calendar to deliver on the demand objectives for that particular category. That is what will be going behind this. We are also looking at addressing newer consumer segments as far as this category is concerned. We believe that there is a potential there to address the younger audience as far as Athleisure is concerned.
This would mean a certain shift in the styling of our products, a certain shift in the fit of our products to make sure we are able to attract more younger audiences as far as the Athleisure business is concerned.
Just a follow-up on this. Are these products and younger consumer engagements begun, or is it the plan for the next year?
It is the plan for the current year as we speak. So it's 2025-2026 plan.
Okay. Understood. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Alok Shah from 361 Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is on the revenue contribution that you would be getting from your EBO channel. What would that number be in the ballpark now, and what would this number have been in FY2023?
We don't exactly share numbers there by each channel. Yes, we have seen significant growth in EBS this year, definitely. It is comforting to see that the growth is not just because of new stores' addition. It is also for the same store growth. Yes, we do not disclose the numbers.
Got it. No, no. The idea was to actually dissect this gross margin improvement a little better. If you can help us understand how much of this gross margin delta may have come from this EBO channel contributing to the sales, because I understand from a gross margin perspective, the share of the gross margin from the EBO would be higher than most of the channels. EBO, followed by maybe your own website, would be the highest gross margin contributor. If you can correct me on this, yeah.
What is more relevant is the EBITDA margin for each channel, and it is largely similar across the channels. Of course, there will be some variations here and there because each channel has its own margin structure, but it is largely similar. Only because of EBS or for any other channel, it does not impact our gross margin significantly.
Okay. Fair enough.
Sorry. I meant EBITDA margin, not gross margin.
Sure. Yeah. I get it. Lastly, in terms of in-house manufacturing, because we have done some commercialization of the plants which are under construction, how would that in-house manufacturing be now versus maybe two, three years back?
We have been traditionally largely in-house manufactured in the sense it has been in the range of 80-90% in that range. It has been largely in-house manufactured. This year, I think it has been 27% outsourcing. When we say outsourcing, it's a mix of completely bought-out products, but that's what we mean. It's around 27%. Yes, I mean, Odisha plant getting into commercial production, which is expected early June, it will not immediately impact this proportion anyway because it will take some time to reach the maturity, which typically is around six to seven months. We have started the recruitment process in Odisha and started the training process. To reach the decent level of maturity, that takes around six to seven months. That will specifically not impact the dynamic.
Got it. So then we'll again be in the band of 80-90%.
Alok, just allow me to clarify to you, actually, we always look at around 25%-30% outsourcing, 70% in-house. The reason for doing this is to make sure that even if there is any challenge as far as fulfilling capacities are concerned, the in-house capacities can be strengthened. If there is an upside, we can quickly make use of the levers which we have and augment capacities quickly. It is a nice blend. We also look at 30% because we want outsourcing to be at a manageable limit in the sense that there should be an extended factory of ours. The processes are exactly what we do in-house. It is not different. We have a management team closely helping the teams there and making sure the standards and quality are maintained.
We cannot go too aggressive on the outsourcing bit. This balance actually helps. It is also strategically important because they also bring in more capabilities. There are some vendor partners who may have technical capabilities which we may not have. Instead of investing in CapEx and technologies, we can actually use them. We work with world-class vendors who service the best of the global brands. We also can actually tap onto the intelligence and exposure they have to come out with exciting products. This is very recent that we always value the outsourcing bit of it. That is where there should be some exciting volume also for the outsourcing vendor partners to make it into a meaningful proposition for them. These are the reasons why we always look at a 25%-30% outsourcing and a 70% in-house.
Got it. Very clear, sir. Thank you. Best of luck for the future conversation. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sarbya Sadri Mukherjee from Bajaj Finserv. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. My first question is on the volume growth outlook. While I understand that Q4 has been particularly strong when I compare past few quarters, 8.5%, but are we seeing any possibility of going back to, let's say, high single digit or early double digit kind of a volume growth in FY26? Yeah. That's my first question.
I think that is the intent. We are targeting a volume growth towards that end, maybe higher single digit kind of a number, which is what we've seen in quarter four. The intent is to deliver that, obviously, subject to how the market reacts and what kind of tertiaries we are able to generate. Yeah, that is what we are targeting for the coming year.
Got it. Very encouraging. Follow-up to that is how has been, if you can highlight, how has been the secondary and tertiary uptake in Q4? That would be helpful.
Secondary has been slightly ahead of primary, not by too much, but slightly ahead in specific categories like Athleisure, where our inventory has been higher. That is the reason why we have seen relatively limited primary numbers. Overall, in major categories like men's and innerwear, for instance, our primary numbers have matched secondary numbers. In areas where we have inflated inventory at this point in time, secondary has been slightly ahead.
Okay. Anything on the retail tertiary side?
In line, because we today operate completely in an ERS system. So any numbers you see what we are presenting from a primary point of view can definitely not be higher than secondary or tertiary numbers because it's largely replenishment linked.
Got it. Lastly, if you can tell us the channel inventory. Last quarter, I think December, it was somewhere around 18 million pieces. As on March end, what would be that number?
I'm not sure where that is.
I don't think we have shared any channel inventory number per se. We have typically been sharing the movement in the inventory in the channel, but the channel number per se, we have not shared. We cannot share that.
Compared to December, is there any—I mean, has it increased or the same level, or if you can highlight that?
It's coming down quarter because of the ERS implementation. Yeah, we are reaching maturity levels in most categories.
Got it. Okay. Thank you. That's all from my side.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Gupta from Tara Capital Partners. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good evening. Thanks for taking my question. First, you mentioned the GSE TFO growth has been higher. Is that for you or for the industrial zone? How do you think about the market share wins in the top cities and TFC TFO?
Sorry, Aditya, but I didn't get your question. There's a lot of background noise.
Sorry, Aditya.
No, I just repeat. I was just asking, you mentioned that the growth in TFC TFO was higher than the Tier 1, Tier 2 cities. Is that for you specifically, or is that the market also right now?
It's difficult to answer. I would imagine it is for the market. Also, our presence in Tier 3, Tier 4 is also dominated because lesser number of other players are able to reach as deep as we are able to, at least in terms of competition that operate in the price points that we operate in.
Got it. Second bit on the price elasticity of the customer in the environment today, if there was a capacity to, let's say, operate at a lower end of the margin guidance but squeeze out a couple of hundred basis points extra growth, is that—is that sort of interesting to you, or the market is not like that currently?
We wouldn't compromise on the quality of the products that we anyway make in terms of entering a lower price point. With the kind of quality we want to deliver for our consumers, we are hitting an optimum price point while keeping in mind the value for money proposition that we want our consumers to enjoy. Having said that, you've also heard from us that whatever prices we are talking about is now about three years old. In effect, if I had to keep inflation in mind, we have become sweeter in terms of the value we are delivering to the consumer from a price-to-product point of view.
Okay. Got it. How is it that—and I'm comparing number CQFI25, the gross margin screen is about.
Sorry to interrupt, sir. Your audio is not clear.
Is it best now?
Yes, sir. Can you please repeat your question?
I was saying I was comparing gross margins to CQFI25 levels. There's almost a 400 basis point swing. There's an upmove in the other expenses also, right? Is it something to do with manufacturing costs that you listed? Because 400 basis point gross margin swing in three months sounds, it's a little high, right? You've not taken any pricing. You're saying the mix has not changed a lot. Is that something else that is driving this?
No, I think we have been on it for several quarters now. The major factor, as I highlighted earlier, is that this year, together, we have been selling out of low-cost inventory. That is definitely playing out and continuing to play out even in the Q4. The other major factor is definitely the sustained higher production efficiencies that we see or achieve. A combination of these two factors, yes, that has resulted in a higher gross margin.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you, everyone, for participating again. It was really a very interesting discussion. We'll definitely look forward to further such interactions. Thank you again.
Thank you. On behalf of Page Industries Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line.