Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to PCBL Limited Q2 FY2026 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by ICICI Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and zero on your touch-tone phone. I now hand the conference over to Sanjesh Jain from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thanks, Danish. Good evening, everyone. First of all, happy Dhanteras and happy Diwali to everyone. And thanks for joining on to PCBL Limited Q2 and H1 FY2026 Earnings Conference Call. We have PCBL chemical management with us on call, represented by Mr. Kaushik Roy, Managing Director, Mr. Suresh Kalra, CEO, Aquapharm Chemicals, Mr. Raj Gupta, CFO, Mr. Anand Kumar, Group Head, Investor Relations, Mr. Pankaj Khedia, ED, Investor Relations. I would like to invite Mr. Kaushik Roy to initiate the call with his opening remark, post which we will have a Q&A session. Over to you, sir.
Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us for the Q2 FY2026 Earnings Conference Call of PCBL Limited. It's a pleasure to connect with all of you once again as we share the highlights of our performance for the quarter and discuss key business developments.
Our results and presentation have been uploaded on the stock exchanges and the company website for your reference. In Q2 FY2026, PCBL Limited reported healthy growth in Carbon Black sales volume on both year-on-year basis as well as quarter-on-quarter basis, and improved capacity utilization across three product lines. However, the margins were impacted by continued pricing pressure in a relatively softer market environment. We believe that this phase has largely bottomed out and expect a steady recovery in profitability in coming quarters. This quarter, we achieved high stable power generation and sales volume.
Our Working Capital Cycle improved by 12 days in H1 FY2026, releasing around INR 240 crore of cash, and overall cash generation remains healthy, with a reduction in gross debt of over INR 300 crore since March 2025. Our Facility and Solution segment under Aquapharm witnessed a gross margin improvement by 10% on the back of a better product mix.
Margins in Carbon Black during the quarter were influenced by a challenging global environment following the imposition of high import tariffs by the United States. We have also noticed customers being quite cautious in their purchasing patterns, reflecting broader economic uncertainties and tighter inventory position across supply chain.
Currently, our Carbon Black exports to the US account for around 5% of total volumes, and with the 50% tariff in place, the business remains constrained. However, as the US continues to be import-dependent for Carbon Black, we expect both volume and margin to recover once the situation stabilizes. Meanwhile, we are proactively taking steps to mitigate the impact and strategically rebalance our export strategy.
Given this backdrop, in this environment, we have identified specific areas where operations can be improved and efficiencies can be enhanced. Dedicated teams are already working and actively implementing initiatives across functions to optimize process, manage costs, and strengthen overall competitiveness. These focused efforts are helping us stay resilient and well-positioned for recovery. With the recent GST cut in India, we are already seeing signs of recovery in the auto sector. Demand is picking up, and we expect this growth to sustain. Domestic tire demand is projected to grow at 6% to 8% in FY2026, led by stronger replacement demand in the second half.
Now, coming to the global scenario, major enterprise companies have announced significant investment to expand production capacity in North America, with projects planned through 2029. Just for instance, Goodyear is investing around $865 million, Hankook is committing $1.6 billion, Bridgestone is bringing in about $610 million, and Michelin plans to invest nearly $540 million, and some other tire companies together are investing approximately $4 billion. This reflects long-term optimism in the sector despite current demand softness.
While this quarter reflected certain short-term challenges, including the impact of US tariffs, temporary deferment of purchases following the GST rate cut, and subdued overall economic sentiment, the long-term Carbon Black demand-supply dynamics of the industry remain strong.
With improving market conditions and expected pickup in demand, we are entering a phase of renewed growth momentum. In line with this, PCBL Chemical is poised for an exciting period ahead, with several strategic projects scheduled to come on stream in phases over the next 18 months, positioning us well for sustained growth and long-term value creation.
Let me share some of these projects with you. Specialty Black Line, dedicated for superconductive grade of 1,000 metric tons per annum capacity, will be commissioned in Palej, Gujarat, by this month, and commercial production will begin from 2025 November, which is next month. Brownfield expansion of 90,000 tons rubber line in Tamil Nadu is under commissioning stage and likely to be operational in the current quarter itself. Number three, commissioning of Specialty Black Line, 20,000 metric tons per annum in Mundra, is likely to be pushed to March 2026.
On the battery chemical side, Nanovace's pilot plant project is on track. Process patent for the nano-silicon for battery applications is already granted in the US and likely to be received in Japan, South Korea, and Europe over the next two quarters. The company has also applied for two process patents, namely carbon-silicon composites and battery-grade graphite from biosources. Excuse me. Acetylene Black Plant of 4,000 metric tons per annum is expected to be commissioned over the next 18 months.
We are on track to achieve our targeted capacity of over 1 million tons of Carbon Black capacity in the next couple of years. The global conductive Carbon Black market continues to grow steadily, supported by rising electrification and the expanding energy transition worldwide. Demand is being driven by multiple sectors, including electronics, energy storage, EVs, and industrial applications.
Three key mega trends, the global shift to renewable energy, increasing electrification, and rapid expansion of data centers are reshaping the need for advanced conductive materials. Asia-Pacific remains the largest production and consumption hub, while the US, the United States, and Europe continue to be strong, high-value markets. PCBL Chemical's expansion into superconductive grade Carbon Black will position us to tap into these growing global markets and cater to next-generation high-performance applications.
We are expanding our capabilities via customized offerings and continued innovation, particularly in high-performance applications like battery chemicals and energy storage. We are the first company globally with all three advanced technologies, namely Superconductive Carbon Black, Nano-silicon, and Acetylene Black, catering to conductive solutions and next-generation battery applications. In our Specialty Black business, we maintain growth despite current market challenges, demonstrating strength of our supply chain and customer relations, while continuing to expand product coverage and applications.
We have strengthened our sales force, warehouses, technical support, and distribution network to enhance customer connect and service. Our successful EU strategy now serves as a blueprint for the Americas, EMEA, and Asia, with a focus on service excellence, faster turnaround, and portfolio expansion. The aim is to position PCBL as a local player in each region, defend our stronghold in the Indian subcontinent, and at the same time, expand into high-potential markets like ASEAN, China, and the EU.
During the quarter, PCBL achieved two significant milestones in its sustainability journey. The company successfully registered under the International Renewable Energy Certificate (I-REC) platform, entitled to credits for clean energy generated across our plants. In addition, PCBL was once again honored with the gold medal in the EcoVadis Sustainability Rating for financial year 2023-2024, placing us among the top 5% of companies globally.
Together, these achievements reinforce our commitment to sustainability and further strengthen PCBL's ESG profile and brand positioning globally. PCBL Chemical has established a resilient and far-reaching global footprint, supported by a seamlessly integrated manufacturing and distribution network. As the company scales into high-margin, high-growth segments, it continues to demonstrate discipline in capital allocation and agility in responding to evolving demand cycles.
Now, coming to the quarterly performance. During the quarter, our consolidated sales volume in Carbon Black business increased by 5% quarter-on-quarter to reach 161,728 metric tons. This translates into a capacity utilization of over 99% during the quarter. Consolidated revenue from operations during the quarter was INR 2,164 crore, and consolidated EBITDA was INR 278 crore. PBT stood at INR 78 crore, while PAT stood at INR 62 crore.
Of the total Carbon Black sales volume, domestic sales volume stood at 99,549 tons, while international sales volume stood at 62,179 tons in Q2 FY2026, which means a 6% year-on-year growth. Now, moving on to our segmental performance. Tires accounted for 93,892 tons. Performance Chemical stands at 50,331 tons, while specialty sales volume was 17,505 tons.
We expect this share to continuously ramp up over the next few years with increasing demand and capacity addition. During this time, we also achieved the highest-ever power generation and sales volume during the quarter. Power generation increased by 7% year-on-year from 209 million units to 223 million units, with an external sales volume growing by around 10% year-on-year to 138 million units, as against 126 million units in Q2 FY2025.
Coming to the sixth monthly performance during H1 FY2026, consolidated revenue from operations stood at INR 4,278 crore, as against INR 4,307 crore in H1 FY2C25. Sales volume for Carbon Black increased 4% year-on-year to 315,821 metric tons in H1 FY2026, as against 302,610 metric tons in H1 FY2025. The consolidated EBITDA for H1 FY2026 stood at INR 603 crore, as against INR 738 crore in H1 FY25. Power generation went up by around 9% and sales volume by 11% in the first half of the financial year.
Despite macroeconomic volatility and evolving trade barriers, PCBL is strengthening its position as a multi-chemistry platform focused on innovation, scalability, and localization. By expanding capacity, leveraging digitalization and automation, and partnering with global technology leaders, we are creating future-ready solutions. Let me now hand over to my colleague, Mr. Suresh Kalra, CEO of Aquapharm Chemical, who will update you on Aquapharm's performance and outlook. Suresh, good evening. Good evening. Thank you for joining us. Over to you, Suresh.
Thank you, Kaushik. Thank you. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for joining us in this call. I will update you on Aquapharm Chemicals Limited, especially for Q2 FY2026. Aquapharm navigated challenging external environment with regional dynamics shaping performance across our key markets.
I'll take one by one, so India delivered strong growth, which was supported by expanding reach and deeper engagement with key customers, while Saudi Arabia continued to scale on the back of strategic accounts. Our US business faced some near-term softness, being a fragile business, and the oil prices were almost at very low for a long time on a WTI index basis, but the sales trend seems like improving in August and September.
Our Home Care business delivered robust growth of 18% Q-o-Q, so Q2 financial year 2026 versus Q1 financial year 2026, in quantity sold, and it's driven mostly by expanded reach and stronger engagement with our key customers, especially our large key customers like P&G, Unilever, etc. Our Water Solutions maintained strong momentum, also grew at.
I'm really sorry to interrupt you, sir, but your voice is echoing.
All right. Just give me one second.
Thank you, sir.
I hope it's better. I took the installed speakerphone on normal form. Okay.
Yes, sir. Okay.
So our Water Solution maintained also very strong momentum, growing at about 16% Q-o-Q, driven by strategic accounts. Our another segment, the fourth segment, is application-specific solutions, which were almost flat and slowed down in the domestic textile industry.
In the Oil and Gas segment, which is, as I said, our US-based business with a plant in the US, their volumes were a little down by 14%. Overall, all of our four market segments, home care grew very robust growth. Water Solution grew very strong growth. Application-specific solutions were flat, and Oil and Gas saw some volume downtrend because of the cyclicality of the oil market in the US.
Geopolitical tensions continue to remain elevated, as we understand, and the recent 100% tariff imposed by US and China actually created some good opportunities for Aquapharm's phosphonate and green chelates business because the US customers are now also looking forward to diversifying sourcing beyond China. There were a lot of dependence on China for them, so that's creating an opportunity.
At the same time, the recent application of tariffs by the US on India, especially on the biocides and select polymers exported from India, has impacted a portion of our business, which leads to some temporary headwinds in the near term. In spite of that, Aquapharm delivered a steady performance in Q2 FY2026, closing the quarter with a revenue of INR 395 crores, with a growth of 9% on top line and an EBITDA number of INR 48 crores.
During the quarter, our focus remained on strengthening our commercial capabilities and technical depths to support long-term sustainable growth. We also recently onboarded a very senior-level industry expert as head of our R&D and Innovation Center, a very experienced guy from the industry, and we are now going to steer our innovation efforts also for the future, which helps us advance our next phase of product development.
We also have enhanced our sales organization in the USA. As I said, the business is driven by cyclicality, so sometimes you really need to work on very strong opportunity pipelines. So we are enhancing our sales organization with very strong technical orientation people, with some great customer engagement focus, laying the foundation for improved market reach and the market resilience in the coming quarters. That effort has already been taken, and we are going to see the benefit of that in the coming quarters.
A few more key business updates I would like to share here. One is Aquapharm now offers a complete green chelate portfolio. So Aquapharm is possibly the only company today in the entire industry which has the entire portfolio of green chelate. So green chelate like GLDA, MGDA, and IDS. They are ready for commercial sales. Alongside two new polymer products, one of them is PESA granules, which is used in auto dishwashing like Racket kind of customers, and the second is PM300, which is used in water treatment like Ecolabs like of customers. So these trials and discussions are underway with multiple customers. We have now the complete range ready with us.
We also have commissioned a new plant of PBTC. If you have seen before, it was a traded product for us for a long time, and now we have commissioned a plant, so it's going to move from a traded product to a manufactured product for us. Sampling has been initiated for all strategic accounts, and discussions are ongoing for the global water treatment players. We are also undertaking a de-bottlenecking initiative, which is also complete for acetyl chloride.
This is one of the product lines where we're completely sold out, so we undertook a de-bottlenecking operation, which is complete now, and that will increase the efficiency of our business. Along with that, we're also putting granulation lines to support our new granulated products.
Coming to our segmental performance in terms of volumes, Home Care, which is our product line basically for fabric care and home cleaning, that reported 10,000 tons of volume. Oil and Sas reported 6,500 tons of volume. Water solutions reported 5,000 tons, and the application-specific solutions reported 4,000 tons of volume. We are pretty confident now of delivering a visible EBITDA improvement from Q3 onwards because of all the initiatives which are complete.
We are building new opportunities, and we've already seen some tender wins, especially a very large tender at Saudi Water Authority's our purification plant has already won, and we are also participating in tenders with Procter & Gamble for the green chelates for the US operations.
Our focus on expanding the customer base is across key regions, coupled with very strong distributor partnerships. We have also entered into a new distributor partnership in Africa with Solevo and a couple of other distributors which we are currently being appointing in the Latin American market.
At the same time, there's an extensive workshop-style approach which we have taken for our new product development to identify new molecules through close collaboration with our customers. We have a very strong standing with a lot of our customers, and we're using the voice of customer there to identify the new products required in that workshop-style approach.
Our commercialization efforts will be going along with it, strengthening our NPD pipeline, looking forward to enhancing the profitability and supporting our sustained growth momentum. With this, I will conclude my remarks. Thank you for your attention. I would now welcome for any questions to Kaushik Roy or myself.
Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll now begin with a Q&A session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use headsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question is from the line of Aditya Khetan from SMIFS Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. So just a couple of questions. Sir, in your initial remark, you mentioned this US tariff impact and GST-related changes has led to slower volume uptake. Sir, if you can quantify, if these situations were normalized, if these were not about to happen, how much volumes we have lost in this quarter?
This is a question for our Aquapharm business, right?
No, sir. This is for the Carbon Black business and for Aquapharm.
Sorry. Then I'll go to Kaushik first, please.
Yeah, Aditya, specific to US, we have cut down our volumes by roughly about 2,000 tons in this quarter. And so far, as GST impact is concerned, so while we have not lost volume, in fact, our domestic volumes have gone up, but it was a lot of sales in the spot market, and we did face pricing pressure. So the impact of this deferment of some of the auto purchases kind of was felt, not directly on the volume, but on the pricing more. Okay. Specific to us.
Okay. And sir, this is your growth spread. What we understand is that market demand is also soft. Comparatively, is there also higher supply which is coming from Russia? We knew earlier the share was lower. Now it has doubled up. So because of higher imports coupled with lower demand, is this the reason to blame for lower spread?
We don't see a structural change in the demand-supply scenario, but last five, six months, the market and the industry have been facing a lot of headwinds. Everything came together kind of. This US tariff, which was initially introduced at a lower level, then increased, then GST rate cut announcement, which also kind of resulted in some deferment of auto purchases. Russian imports have been happening since last one year.
The overall levels have not gone up. So India still is importing almost about 8,000 to 10,000 tons a month, which is not much, honestly, but of course, I mean, these imports are happening at a lower price, which is kind of creating pressure on the spot prices. But we don't see anything which is kind of destabilize our plans going forward. We have our own strategy to deal with all these headwinds, but of course, I mean, it takes some time to respond to the situation, but we remain very optimistic about our performance in the ensuing quarters. Do you want to add anything to it?
Got it. Sir, earlier in earlier calls, we used to highlight that from our commodity Carbon Black Space, we have some specialty products also over there that will also help to improve EBITDA by INR 1 per kg. I believe for the last one year, we were highlighting this point. So is that thing taking place right now, or do you feel like that will be slow from year on?
Our specialty volumes are going up. Even this quarter, if you look at our volumes, they have gone up. Quarter- on- quarter, we have a 9% increase. Even year- on- year also, we have increased. On a full half-year basis, you will see that there is an increase. This year, based on our capacity, we can reach maybe about 72,000 to 73,000 tons, and we are on track to achieve that volume. So the product mix is changing for better, but of course, the current situation is not a usual one, and therefore, the impact on the margin.
Okay. Okay. Sir, on Aquapharm , in your initial presentation, you highlighted there will be a visible EBITDA improvement. You mentioned, I believe, sir, for the last few quarters, we are at the similar EBITDA in Aquapharm, and we are clocking around INR 20 per kg on EBITDA. You see most of the negatives earlier, we used to mention about higher cost and lower product mix. All these things are there in the current spreads and EBITDA, and you see how much jump if you can quantify for FY2026 and for FY2027.
Yes, sure. Sorry.
Yes, sir, just go ahead. Yeah, please go ahead.
Okay. So our business is divided into four major market segments, and also right now, it's aligned pretty well geographically. Okay. So India business, which is basically we call it Aquapharm India, is manufactured in India and mostly supplied in Europe to some extent in the US. So I would say, for example, Aquapharm India businesses, 20% of the revenue comes from US. So that is the only business which is impacted due to tariffs. Now, if you see at the global level, that business becomes only 9% of the impact. Okay. So the tariff situation on India product is impact for sure. Some of the products are exempt also, so the impact is there but still limited. Okay.
On the other side, the benefit to us due to tariff is because we have a manufacturing location for oil and gas for a plant in US in Houston, and most of the customers also in US in Permian Basin. So we have a benefit over Chinese and any other suppliers. Now, right now, our India business is clearly showing clear improvement, already visible improvement, but the overall numbers are still looking the same to you at an EBITDA level because our US business right now is going through a low end of cycle because of the oil prices are staying between $62 to 65, which is possibly one of the lowest.
Usually, the sweet spot for oil prices is between $75 to 80, and the better it goes, the better efficiency products are needed. So right now, we are facing headwinds due to the type of business in our US manufactured business, while India manufactured business is seeing quite a growth, and overall, it is still offsetting, and that's why we are looking at the normal.
If I take a number, for example, the India business alone, EBITDA grew at INR 28 crores in Q1 and INR 33 crores in Q2, so a very clear visible improvement in the India business. So when we are saying that overall improvement would be visible in the coming quarters because we know oil is a cyclical business, and it has to change in the coming quarters.
Okay. Sir, just a follow-up on this. At what crude oil price level will the start getting operating leverage?
Yeah. So it's not always directly as such linked, but this is very clear that the crude oil price, so we talk about Brent and WTI. WTI is about $4 lower. So WTI today is about $62 to 65 or $62.9 last night. So the moment it started improving, the efficiency products, because we make efficiency products mostly, which are basically scale inhibitors, corrosion inhibitors, and H2S scavengers, they are used more and more, and especially the high-end of the ones that required more when the efficiencies are needed more, and that linked with oil prices, but not a linear, I would say, comparison which we can make, but we definitely see the improvement when the oil prices go up.
Sir, just one last question. I think I'm close. You had mentioned in your earlier remarks, so this expansion figure is included in our numbers like we have stated to double from 1.4 to some 3 lakh tons. So this de-bottlenecking is included in that figure?
Yes, that is included, but it's not, yeah, it's just a de-bottlenecking. It is not completely expansion projects, but yes, that is included. You're right.
Got it. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
That's it from me.
Sure.
Thank you, sir. Our next question is from the line of Sanjesh Jain. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good evening. Thanks for taking my questions. First, on the Carbon Black side, again, the spread appears to be quite subdued. I think this quarter, we did EBITDA per kg, which is under INR 15, one of the lowest in so many quarters. And there has been general commentary that globally, there is a slowdown in auto. Even some of your peers have called up that in their earnings call previously. Do you think this situation is temporary in nature, or at least FY2026 appears to be somewhat subdued and what we report, and that should be a fair assumption?
Well, at this point of time, there are a lot of uncertainties in the market, as you know. One is, of course, US tariff, and specific to India, it is also about GST. And beyond that, even the global economies, if you look at, you talk about USA, you talk about Europe, or you talk about Asia, including India and China. Other than India, in the Q1 , we had shown a good number, 7.8% GDP growth, economic growth. Most of the places, the fundamentals are a little soft, and consequently, the growth is not very strong at this point of time. The projections are also a little soft at this point of time.
But having said that, we feel that we have kind of a reached level from where it will start improving. It will start improving. How fast the recovery can happen, that is something possibly time will tell, but a lot of actions are being taken internally to manage or sail through this difficult headwind or the strong headwind we are facing at this point of time, more focusing on the operational excellence.
So that is one initiative. So that should take care of the challenges what we are facing, but these things do take time. I'm sure all of you will appreciate. But on the other side, since our feeling, and we are quite clear about it, that going forward, things will improve, and therefore, our expansion plans are all in place. The CapEx are on in place.
As we explained a while back, that 90,000 tons of Tamil Nadu is coming on stream within the next few weeks' time. Similarly, in Mundra and Palej, both the places, specialty lines are coming up. Nanocave pilot plant is also, so overall, in a nutshell, our thinking and our outlook is very positive, and we should be able to overcome. I mean, it is a global phenomenon at this point of time, so I'm sure it's a matter of time things will get sorted within USA, and US is a potential market for us going forward, so we should be able to recover fast.
I mean, we are all ready with all our arms and ammunitions in place. We are making sure that we are fully geared up. The moment opportunity comes, we should be able to capture that opportunity. So that's the overall outlook, and in a way, you can say it's a positive thinking from our side. Some headwinds are there, but we should be seeing better times going forward, and not too far off. It's just around the corner, possibly.
Got it. One additional question. Last quarter, we spoke elaborately about one of the competition reducing the capacity in the Western world, and now again, you spoke to quote almost $78 billion of investment is going in new tire manufacturing. So this, in a way, is good for us. Are we in early stage of any of these CapEx which is coming in terms of supply agreements, long-term supply agreement, which we are trying to complete capacity? And by what timeline you are expecting these capacities to be operational?
Yeah, you are absolutely right. Some of the not-so-viable production lines are under shutdown, going under closure in the near future. I'm not taking the name, but you're fully aware of. Some of them are based out of the U.S. Some of them are based out of Europe and also South Africa, in Africa and South Africa, which is kind of advantage for us, of course, and since the efficiency level of manufacturing is pretty high with the Asian manufacturers, particularly, and we are adding capacity, we are already in discussion with some of the global players for our next year contract, which is just another two, three months away, so that discussion has already started, so now this capacity utilization will take time. 90,000 tons is like a plant. It is almost like a plant, equivalent to a medium-sized plant.
It will not happen overnight, but gradually, the production will go up in line with buying from the customers. We have started discussion of that, and trials will start now as soon as the lines come on stream, which is end of this month and commissioning early next month. We'll start the trials, and thereafter, it is more about discussion with the customers, tying up the volume and quickly scale up.
And our endeavor is to utilize capacity as far as possible in the next financial year itself. It should be more than 50%, I guess, in the next financial year. And by exit of next financial year, we should be touching the run rate to achieve full 100% utilization. That is the level of confidence we have.
Got it. One last question on the superconductor grade, what we spoke earlier. When should we see a material contribution?
Yeah, we are not able to hear you, actually. Some problem, I think, with the line.
Can you hear me now? He llo?
No. No.
Sir, we can hear you. Mr. Sanjesh Jain, I can hear you.
Can you hear me? Let's do one thing. You go on with the call, next caller. Let me come back in the queue.
Sure, sir. The next question is from the line of Radha from B&K Securities. Please go ahead, ma'am.
Hi, sir. Can I audible?
Yes, you are.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, for Aquapharm-based products, what percentage of the US market is being catered by China directly or indirectly? And now, if there are 100% tariffs on China, how much volume growth, as well as any margin expansion that you're expecting due to this?
Yeah, thank you. Thank you, ma'am. I'll answer this question. So US market, as I said, is divided for us, divided into two major parts. One is Oil and Gas. Oil and Gas is where we manufacture locally and we supply locally. All right? So we basically do not compete with a lot of Chinese products there. We rather use them a lot for our buying raw materials, okay, for the Oil and Gas market.
A lot of production happens in Oil and Gas, but a lot of imports also come. So it's a combination. So we get some benefit when we are competing with them, and the duty becomes very high. But at the same time, if the raw material for us gets expensive also because of the duty on China, then also we get impacted. So it's kind of an offset impact.
While our other business, which is Home Care business, there we are going to see a lot of benefit coming to us, although we are supplying from India, but right now, at this moment, and we know that it is uncertain, it is changing every day. As of now, the duty structure on China on these products has become 100% effective last week. Okay? If that continues, we are going to see a significant benefit.
Now, how much to quantify it is that we are looking at all the pluses and minuses. For example, we are seeing some demand drivers also in our favor with smart appliances for the Home Care industry coming and the phasing out of the EDTA, mostly in the phosphonate side of the business for the Home Care. So net-net, overall, we are looking at currently, we are at an average of INR 50 crores of EBITDA every quarter. We look forward to end this financial year with the INR 75 crores of EBITDA overall for the global business on a 12-month basis. So that's an exit we are looking at today, comparing all the pluses and minuses coming towards the business. I answered all the questions?
Yes, I just to confirm, INR 75 crores of EBITDA, you want to end it on a quarterly basis by this year end?
By this year end, that's correct. So that's where our exit is planned at this moment.
Okay. Okay. Great, sir. So second question is on nano-silicon. With regards to nano-silicon, the company is investing INR 500 crores in a rapidly evolving technology and targeting a substantial INR 1,200 crores EBITDA by 2030. So can you please highlight any customer approvals or feedbacks that have been received in the initial stages as of now?
Hello?
Yes.
Radha, can you repeat your query?
Yes, I wanted to understand any customer approvals or feedbacks received in terms of nano-silicon?
Radha, we are waiting for the pilot plant of ours to get commissioned. And once the pilot plant is commissioned, we will be sending the approval-grade material to a lot of customers. And then we hope that in the next six to nine months, post-sending of the approval-grade material, we'll be able to get product approvals. The interest level on this product remains high. And so sometime by the second half of next year, we look forward for a lot of positive news around this.
And in addition to that, based on our lab samples, we have already started producing this material in our lab. So we have kind of approached some of the global names. I cannot name those names for obvious reasons. But there's a lot of excitement with this product. They have shown a lot of interest. And as Mr. Pankaj just mentioned, now as we are moving from lab to pilot, once the pilot is ready, which should be by FY2027, sorry, FY2026, another two, three months' time, thereafter we'll start submitting the sample, and then the engagement will be much deeper. And we are pretty confident that we'll get a very positive response from most of them.
Okay. So thanks for all this.
Yeah.
Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Dhruvin Kadakia from SKP Securities. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted to confirm that given the current situations that are going on overall in the market for Carbon Black as well as for Aquapharm for the next two years, what are our expectations with respect to sales realization per ton and EBITDA per ton?
Well, it will also depend on the level of crude and raw material prices. At a steady level, we believe that whatever drop we had to absorb because of the current market conditions, I think we can get back to there in a couple of years' time. So our EBITDA, which used to be around, say, INR 20,000, for the first half, it has come down to about INR 16,000. So that lost a margin of INR 4,000. We are fairly confident of recovering once the market stabilizes.
Okay. That is for Carbon Black. And Aquapharm in particular?
Suresh, would you please answer that question?
Yeah, Raj, I think the principle remains the same. So in that sense, a lot of our business actually depends on how the crude oil moves. So net-net sales realization would definitely also be part of that. It doesn't mean that it improves the EBITDA levels. So I mean, of course, I mean, this is one of the metrics which we used. But at the same time, I would say that we'll be focusing more on how much per ton we are going to make as profits.
And that's what we are currently mostly finding because the product mix also changes significantly. So the average selling price becomes less important. Right now, it's about INR 115 per kilo. I mean, if I just go by that, then we'll be looking at improving it to more than INR 200, actually, with the product mix which we are planning, yes.
Okay, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Krishan Parwani from JM Finance. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for taking my question. So I actually joined the call late, so I'm not sure whether you've answered any of these. So just first, on the Carbon Black side, there's been a sharp decline in per-kg EBITDA. So did you already respond to that? Why is that?
Yeah, Krishan, we kind of responded to that. Two, three things. One, we had to deal with the burden of US tariffs. And just to give you a sense, in Carbon Black business, annually, we were doing about 350-odd crores of business there. In our case, the effective tariff rate is 20%. Though it is 50%, but we get some exemption, but it is still 20%, which makes it kind of a INR 70 crore a year kind of an impact at EBITDA level.
Now, part of that hit our numbers this quarter. So operating expenses to that extent are higher. So that's one. The second is, if you look at crude, it came down steeply in last quarter from about $72 to 73 in the previous quarter to about $63 to 64 in June, September, July-September quarter.
Now, when that happens, then some of the operators who can buy oil from spot and sell in the spot market, they price their product differently. And we have to compete with them, especially considering that the market conditions currently are soft. I mean, this GST deferment also had some impact in pushing the auto sales towards the last part of the quarter. And consequently, I mean, the market was kind of oversupplied, which further created the pricing pressure. So all of these conditions kind of hit us in one quarter, and therefore, the impact on the margins.
Okay. Great. Thank you for the elaborate answer. Just on that particular inventory losses, if I may, I mean, if I call it that, how much of an impact do you think it would have made on your per kg EBITDA? Let's say it is X of other income, INR 14, 13.5. So X of that inventory losses, would you have been around 15, 15.5? Just the expectation not.
I would not call it inventory losses because it was not a write-down that we had today. But it is only that it gave opportunity to some of the producers to buy lower-priced oil, produce, and sell at market at a lower rate. And we wanted to keep our capacity utilization high.
And consequently, we had to compete with them in the spot market. So it was more of that. But if you look at our volumes, volumes have gone up. I mean, despite all the challenges, all the headwinds that we were facing, we could still keep our capacity utilization at almost full level. I mean, we were at about 99% in this quarter.
Got it. And just a clarification on that front, because I think you mentioned about US tariffs. And as I see, your exports sequentially have declined to about 62 KTPA compared to 65, 63, KTPA. And how much of a volume is the U.S.? Because as far as my understanding, it's probably not more than 5% to 10% of the overall Carbon Black sales. Or is it higher?
No, no. It was 5% only. We were doing about 30,000 tons. Last year, we did 30,000 tons, and that was around it. But of course, I mean, we see US as a large market, large opportunity for us. US imports about 200,000 tons a year, and once the tariff settles to some lower level, we obviously would be doing more volume there. But again, for this 30,000 tons, it converts into almost INR 350 crore of sales of revenue.
Got it, and second question is on the Aquapharm. I think I did hear that there is a tariff impact also there in the Aquapharm. But when do you think you can get to a INR 70-80 crore EBITDA run rate, I think, which we had initially planned or hoped that by FY2026, we'll see somehow like a INR 70-80 crore EBITDA run rate? So are we still on track to achieve that?
Yes, thank you. So as I said earlier, we are kind of hovering around INR 50 crores of EBITDA. And with all the initiatives which I discussed without repeating them, we are looking forward to reach at the end of this year, financial year, with an exit of INR 75 crores of EBITDA.
So while we maintain our current set of business, that new product lines which we have introduced, and looking at the positive demand drivers which are coming from Europe, and looking at the additional business which we are going to generate from Saudi side, I think with that pipeline, it seems right now very confident for us to reach an exit rate of about INR 75 crores, which is something which we promised to you earlier.
So not changing. Just as I said again, with the US change in the cyclicality of the business and the tariff situation uncertainty, slightly delayed our plans. So something which we would have achieved by Q3 in our possibility of doing a Q4 it's the only change. And on the earlier one I said about the net realization, I think also want to clarify pretty much.
There will be a lot of things that will change in the product mix in the future. But I don't see any significant change in the net realization in the coming quarters. We are looking at a lot of new product development in the next year and two years, which I already discussed that we have our innovation center. We are putting a workshop-style approach. With that, we are going to add a lot of new end-use products with very high realization. But in this coming Q2 , I see a lot of improvement from our EBITDA perspective. For sure. At the end of Q4 , as I said, I'll be repeating, we'll be close to INR 75 crores.
Got it. Got it. Thank you. And one last clarification, if I may, or rather a question, small questions, I guess. So with the kind of EBITDA decline and net debt not going anywhere, do you want to rethink your dividend policy? I mean, do you want to conserve that INR 200-300 crore cash, whatever that you have? That's my last question.
Raj.
Krishan, frankly speaking, in this quarter itself, we saw significant improvement in the working capital days. And we don't see the current quarter's performance as an indication of performance going ahead. The fact remains that we are running at over 99% capacity utilization on the Carbon Black business. And in a matter of going forward, you would see significant improvement in the performance. So cash generation is likely to remain healthy. And that probably gives the confidence to the board to maintain a strong dividend payout policy.
Okay. Got it. Thank you so much for answering my question. Wish you and the entire PCBL team a very happy Diwali. Thank you.
Thank you, Krishan.
Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Shashank Kanodia from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good evening, team, and thanks for the opportunity. Sir, firstly, just wanted to check, is there anything to call out in the employee costs, employee expenses? Because it is a sharp 25% jump on Y-o-Y basis.
Shashank, our appraisal cycle is July to June, and therefore, typically in Q2 , employee expenses go up. Now, I mean, if you compare year- on- year, it has also gone up because of some fresh hiring. We are expanding both organically and also we are investing in technology, and therefore, we will require more talent in the organization, and some of this hiring has happened in the last one year's time. And consequently, the effect is visible in the employee cost.
So sir, should we assume this is a new run rate for us, quarterly new run rate for us?
Yeah. It will be kind of quarterly run rate. There is some one-time also because some senior-level employee joined during the quarter. And there were some joining bonuses, etc. But that's not much. That's INR 2 to 3 crore. But more or less, this is indicative of the going forward run rate.
Right. Secondly, sir, as you rightly mentioned, in the first half, EBITDA per ton on the Carbon Black business is roughly INR 16,000 to a ton. So given the fact that you mentioned that things have been bottoming out, so for the full-year basis, can we lock an annual rate of INR 16,000 as EBITDA per ton for this fiscal year and then returning to a course of INR 20,000 plus kind of within 2027 onwards? Any take on that front?
Though it is early in this quarter, and the major issues like US tariffs and all, those are still unresolved. But what we are seeing is that crude has stabilized kind of around $60 to 62. And the disadvantage that we faced last quarter because of steep decline in crude price is not likely to be there this quarter. Based on that, we have confidence that Q3 , EBITDA per ton should be better than this quarter.
Right. Sir, for the full-year basis, can we do something like INR 16,000, or is it still early to take a call on that?
I guess we should do better, Shashank. But I mean, the situation globally, I mean, both in the domestic market as well as in the international market, a lot of things are happening one after another. If you assume a steady state kind of a scenario, if you assume that this US tariff situation is going to be resolved with some kind of rational tariffs, I think we can do much better.
Right. And sir, usually, we maintain our target like being at INR 20,000 base case as EBITDA per ton to improve around INR 1 to 2 per kg every year, taking us to INR 25 per kg by FY 2029 and 2030. So does that really alter that game plan, or is it still very much possible for us to really traverse that journey?
No. Long-term guidance remains same, and we remain on track. All the initiatives that we discussed with you all, those have already been initiated internally. And we are pretty confident that we'll deliver those numbers. But those numbers, again, I mean, when we were at INR 20,000, the market conditions were different.
We did not expect so many disruptions, so this, again, INR 16,000 is not a normal margin profile of the business. This is due to that, and we, therefore, expect the company to come back to the previous run rate level once we have some solution to these issues, and with all the changes that those are happening at the product mix level, operating leverage, and then yield improvement, etc., operational efficiency and all, we expect us to be on track for that INR 29,000, INR 30,000, sorry, INR 24,000, INR 25,000 EBITDA per ton.
Right. Right. Sir, just a small feedback. It has taken a. I'm knowing personally for the last seven, eight years, it has taken a long time explaining to the investment community the strength of the business in a non-commoditized nature, but this kind of performance really didn't match up with the initial commentary and the thing. So just a small suggestion, if we can be a little more realistic, if we can give this guidance to the community in the future. That's the only feedback on my side.
Actually, Shashank, when we give guidance, those are based on some basic assumptions, right? Like external situations remaining stable. And of course, I mean, today is not a normal situation. If you compare our current year's performance with, say, three, four years' back performance, even in good markets, we used to deliver about INR 12,000, INR 13,000 kind of EBITDA.
And now, even with so many headwinds, we are still able to deliver some INR 16,000 kind of EBITDA. So definitely, there is improvement in our operating efficiencies, in our size of business, in our product mix. So those changes are visible. And we are pretty confident that the numbers that we have communicated to you all, we will deliver them. Long-term guidance, we are on track. We are pretty confident. But short-term disruption, it takes us some time to respond to the headwinds. But we are confident of our capability as an organization and as a team. And God willing, in a couple of quarters, we'll again show improvement, start showing improvement.
Sure, sir. Thank you so much, and be sure of the rest.
Thank you, Shashank.
Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Mr. Kumar Saumya. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good evening. Sir, just one question from my side. This quarter, we had a healthy growth on the domestic front. So how sticky is that? And how do you see the domestic volume standing out on the end-of-year course of the business?
See, the market was soft during the quarter. And of course, our focus was there on to utilize our capacity. But then we also had to compete with some of the spot players, which is reflecting in our margins. It will take some time for us to reroute our materials to the targeted markets. We'll have to move more volumes out of the domestic market because if we continue to sell more here, it will further impact the pricing and the margins. So I would not call it a very steady state or steady numbers. Of course, we'll ensure that our capacities are utilized to full. But it will take us a couple of quarters before we can find the right market mix, market and customer mix.
Got it. And sir, my second question, the point that you highlighted, the effective tariff that you have is 20%. Is that because you're sourcing raw material from the US?
Yeah. We are importing raw material from. Yeah, s o we are importing raw material from the US and 60% of the price at which we sell our material in the US consists of inputs from the US. So the raw material part of that is about 60%. And therefore, that portion becomes exempt from tariff. So it is only the balance 40% which gets tariffed at 50%.
Got it, sir. Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you so much. That was the last question. On behalf of PCBL Limited and by ICICI Securities Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.