Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Pidilite Industries Limited's Q4 FY 2018 earnings conference call, hosted by Axis Capital Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touch-tone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anand Shah from Axis Capital Limited. Thank you, and over to you.
Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Axis Capital, I welcome you all to the Pidilite Industries Q4 FY 2018 earnings conference call. We have with us the senior management of the company, represented by Mr. Apurva Parekh, Executive Director, and Mr. P. Ganesh, the CFO. I'd like to now hand over the call to the team for opening remarks. Thanks, and over to you.
Good evening, everybody. I will begin with a summary of the financial performance for the quarter ended March 2018 for the standalone business. On a comparable basis, net sales at INR 1,261 crore grew by 14.5% over the same quarter last year, with underlying volume and mix growth of 13.3%. This was driven by a 13.4% growth in sales volume and mix of consumer and bazaar products, and 13.9% growth in sales volume and mix of industrial products. EBITDA before non-operating income at INR 255 crore declined by 0.3% over the same quarter last year, given the input cost-led contraction in gross margins by about 1% and ANSP cost increases. Profit after tax during the current quarter is at INR 238 crore, an increase of 235% over the same quarter last year.
Current tax for the fourth quarter of FY 2018 includes an amount of INR 46 crore being excess income tax provision of earlier years, now written back. For the year ended March 2018, on a standalone basis, comparable net sale at INR 5,281 crore grew by 12%. EBITDA before non-operating income grew by 5.3%. Profit after tax increased by 23.4% over the previous financial year. I will move to our summary of the consolidated business for the quarter ended March 2018. On a comparable basis, net sales at INR 1,473 crore grew by 19.8% over the same quarter last year. This excludes the sale of the Cyclo division of Pidilite USA, which was sold in June 2017. EBITDA before non-operating income stood at INR 274 crore for the quarter and grew by 5% over the same quarter last year.
Profit after tax during the current quarter is at INR 248 crore, an increase of 57% over the same quarter last year. For the year ended March 2018, on a consolidated basis, comparable net sales at INR 5,989 crore, excluding the sale of Cyclo division, grew by 11.5%. EBITDA before non-operating income grew by 6%. Profit after tax increased by 12% over the previous financial year. During the quarter, Pidilite also completed the acquisition of 70% stake in Cipy Polyurethanes Private Limited. Gradually improving demand conditions led to another quarter of double-digit volume growth. While commodity cost inflation as a result of rising input prices and currency headwinds is a concern, we remain focused on delivering steady volume-driven growth. We can now open the floor for questions.
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star 1 on their touch-tone phone. If you wish to remove your question from the question queue, you may press star 2. Participants are requested to use only handsets while asking a question. We have our first question from the line of Abneesh Roy from Edelweiss. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks. My first question is on Brazil and Egypt. Sir, Brazil, minus 8% sales decline in Q4 and minus 3% full year. What's the longer-term game plan? I remember many years this issue has remained. Do you also plan to exit this market at some stage, the way you keep rationalizing? Same is the case for Egypt, although that has done reasonably well for the full year.
As far as Brazil goes, I think one thing to note is that from last two or three years or so, we have been able to eliminate the losses at EBITDA level, with various initiatives to improve gross margin and controlling expenses. Hence to that effect, we have really focused on We have reduced the sale of certain low-margin products as well as low-margin customers. The sale has been impacted due to factors of this nature. We currently, at this time, are focused on ensuring that this business is run in an efficient basis while we evaluate strategic options. As far as Egypt goes, Egypt is part of an important focus territory for us, which is Middle East and Africa. Egyptian market has seen a lot of ups and downs, including currency-related issues. Hence, it has had an impact on profit.
In Egypt, we sell Fevicol and related adhesives, and we believe that long-term it is an important market for both Egypt as well as some of the Northern African countries.
Dharin said that also to add, even in Egypt, we have been able to cut down the losses which the company's incurring at this point in time.
Sure. Sir, my second question is on the Indian subsidiaries. I'm seeing extremely good performance from Nina and Percept. Quarter four year-over-year growth is even superior than the full year growth of both businesses. That's not the case for ICA. If you could take us through all these three subsidiaries, why ICA has not done well and why Nina and Percept have accelerated in Q4 versus the full year?
Yeah. Again, if you look at the waterproofing business and which is where Nina waterproofing and Percept waterproofing businesses play a role. These have seen a good uptick in business. Overall, if you look at the construction sector, while the larger cities, there is still some amount of stress. At a very broad level, there are a lot of construction activity which is going on in small towns, in rural areas, which are typically the smaller constructions as opposed to the large city constructions. Overall situation is improving as far as both of these businesses are concerned. They are definitely seeing a good uptick and very decent order size book.
At the same time, if you look at ICA Pidilite, in the last quarter we had shared that towards the end of last quarter, we had a classification issue with the authorities, which is something which we have contested. There was a spillover effect of that into Q4 as well, and it's this factor which has actually impacted the performance for the quarter. Having said that, supplies, et cetera, have resumed. While the matter in terms of the classification issue that is being contested by us, the business is something where the disruption is now not there anymore. It started off.
Sir, could you clarify on the classification issue? Was it GST related and why should it impact sales?
Again, this was, as I mentioned, a classification issue where the DRI had taken a position that we have not done the right classification. Temporarily, they had actually seized the stocks, which means that for a period of time, we were not able to sell, but they have since released it. The matter will, of course, now take its logical course in terms of what happens to the classification. Currently, we have moved to the revised classification under protest and recommenced business.
Are we providing for this? Any provisioning we are doing?
The amount which we have paid under protest, that is fully provided for in the books, and which is why you're seeing that the profits have taken a dip in the quarter.
Sir, last question. Could you say what could be the revenue potential from the floor sealant and tile adhesive? I saw the interview today of the MD, he was talking about these. What can be the long-term potential and what's the current status of floor sealant and tile adhesives?
I think it is floor coating, must not be floor sealant. Having said that, I think both product portfolio have substantial potential. As you know, we would not like to spell out any individual sales target for this product group. Floor coating market in India is at a nascent stage, and we believe there is very substantial potential, and hence that was the reason to acquire CP business. As the construction practices in India evolve, the flooring is also likely to evolve and result into substantial business. Similar is the case of tiling adhesive. Lot of tiling in India is still done with cement. While as in a lot of countries similar to India as well as in Western countries, there is significant use of tile adhesive.
That is also a market which is likely to grow at a faster pace, I would not like to individually spell out any growth numbers for them or any target for them.
These will be largely unorganized, right? Currently?
It is not unorganized. It's a change in user habit. In tile adhesive, as I said, if people are using cement, you are moving from cement to tile adhesive. As far as flooring goes, these are floor coatings which are epoxy-based or polyurethane-based, where currently these type of floor coatings are not used. These floor coatings are much superior, which gives much greater durability in industrial facility, healthcare facility, food industry. Here again, it's an improvement in the current practices. As you know, Pidilite is very good where we participate in actually changing the user habits.
Okay, sir. That's all. Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Avi Mehta from IIFL. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Congratulations on a good revenue growth performance. There is a change in the commentary that I noticed. You've pointed to steady volume-driven growth versus in the third quarter, you pointed to profitable volume growth. I just want to know, am I reading too much into this change, or does this suggest an increased preference on sales over margins, and is there a minimum margin? Anything on that front would be very helpful, if you could share.
Again, as we have seen, clearly there are headwinds in terms of raw material cost as well as the rupee dollar exchange range, which would obviously put some amount of pressure as far as margin goes. Would that result in any price increases we'll need to take? Answer is obviously yes. Would we take the full amount of increase or would we take at a lower level and absorb some part of it is also something which will come into play. The reason why I'm saying is that our focus as category leaders in most of the spaces we operate in would clearly be in terms of volume growth. When we say volume growth, it's got to be profitable volume growth. It's not as a question of going in for volume growth at any cost. We'll continue to be focused on profitable volume growth.
It is not that you've changed, it's just I'm reading too much, probably.
As we have mentioned in the past, we will continue.
Yeah
to operate in an EBITDA band.
Okay
that would be our way forward.
Yes, sir, we have not spelled out the. Are we okay to spell that band out or no, you would prefer not to give us the band? What exactly would that band be?
Again, over the recent quarters, we have operated at a significantly higher rate of EBITDA, even going to 25%, 26%. Currently, we have entered with a 24. We would be comfortable with EBITDA being slightly lower than where we are currently, but obviously, it will have to operate within a band, say something like a 22%-25%, thereabouts.
Okay, sir. Okay. That's the first part. The second part, sir, is that, your comment was about gradually improving demand conditions. Now you have seen 3 quarters of very healthy volume growth rate. What is it that is a concern for us to not call out a demand recovery because you have actually performed very well for 3 straight quarters. Why the conservatism? I am just trying to understand what I mean.
Again, if you look at the current year, quarter 1 obviously was impacted by GST. Quarter 2 was also partially aided by the fact that Q1 was poor. Quarter 3 had a very good growth, part of it coming from a lower base because we had demonetization the previous year. In that sense, one could say this is a clean quarter. Yeah, there would have been some amount of demonetization impact in the current quarter as well. Much more of the impact would have been in the previous quarter. What we see is that there is definitely growth momentum. We do see a gradual improvement as far as the demand environment is concerned.
At this point in time, I would say maybe a couple of further quarters is where we will have a clear view to say that in terms of demand momentum, is it something which has really picked up. Clearly, the indications are positive.
Okay, sir. Lastly, if I may. This quarter has seen a very healthy performance in the U.S. subsidiary. Just want to kind of understand, is there any one-off over there, or is this the run rate that we can assume? What has happened, if you could throw some light? Because the subsidiary performance has been very good in the fourth quarter.
I would not read too much into one quarter for a subsidiary of that size. The business has had a steady improvement in performance. It had headwinds of change in user habit in the adult coloring segment. That's why if you see the full-year performance is not as good. Otherwise, it has a good, steady business with customers like Walmart, Amazon, Hobby Lobby, et cetera. I would not read too much into a growth of one quarter. Otherwise, we have a reasonable, steady business in place.
Let me rephrase it. Is it that the adult coloring impact is largely in the base, which is what we saw? That's what the numbers suggest. I was just trying to see, what is the one-off, if at all there is?
No one-off. Last year's sale could be lower due to various reasons, to some extent, because I would not say that the growth that we have achieved in this quarter is the normal growth rate. That is not the kind of growth rate that would happen sort of every quarter.
Fair enough, sir. I'll come back with the other questions. Thank you very much, sir.
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Gunjan Prithyani from J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for taking my questions. Just looking at the growth trends, if I look at the mix that you've given in your presentation of the adhesives and the construction chemical, it shows that the adhesive and construction chemical is growing at high teens, whereas Arts still continues to be a drag. Is that correct?
Yes. See, when we do Art, it's arts and craft products, and within that arts and craft products, there is a portfolio of products which is for artisan segment. Handicraft type of segment. That particular segment, we still continue to see the stress, and it has still not fully recovered after the demonetization. Also there has been an increase in competition intensity in that segment. That particular segment, which is part of what we classify as art and craft product, is still under stress.
That did see a degrowth last year, right?
That is right.
Would you say that FY 2019 should stabilize, or we should see a drag? The reason I am asking this is that if I look at the growth of the adhesives and the construction chemical, it actually is far better than the headline growth. If this drag is not there in FY 2019, then we could actually have the complete flow-through in terms of 16%, 17% coming through in the overall reported numbers.
As a matter of policy, we would not like to give out or call out any projection. The sector was under stress. We are hopeful that this stress now would stabilize, and we should see a stability in this sales growth. I would not like to say whether what exactly will happen in the next year.
Okay.
We are encouraged by good growth rate in other two segments. They are the far two bigger segments. This is a smaller segment. This had seen lot of good growth two years ago. Now it has seen some stress. We have to see how this year goes.
I'm sure the other two segments have really done very well.
They are much more larger and significant segments. Also, as I said, within this segment also there are other products which are like school craft adhesives and some of the hobby craft color. They are doing okay.
Okay. Got it. Sir, second would be on the VAM, if you can give us some sense, how do you see this trending? Of course, there's been a sharp increase that you've seen in past quarter. Where is it now, and how do you see in terms of demand supply dynamics? Is there something we should be worried about or it should just follow the crude in terms of inflation?
Currently, if you look at the VAM prices, they have moved up along with crude, but in terms of the way VAM behaves, it's not necessary that it should move in tandem with crude. Again, in terms of numbers, if we were to look at it, in quarter three, we had shared that the average price is about $975. For quarter four, it was up at $1,100. If you look at current procurement prices, it's even higher. VAM prices definitely are at an uptick and at close to historic levels at this point in time.
Sir, current would be how much?
Currently, if you look at market spot prices, it's $1,300 plus.
It's still trending up?
Yeah.
Okay. What kind of pricing action we are okay to take? You did mention that we will be okay to absorb. Any thoughts there? We should just go by the EBITDA margin guidance, or is there anything that you think we would be covering up 50%, 60% of the RM inflation?
Clearly, in terms of price increases, the raw material procurement cost will also be a major function in terms of our pricing decisions. What we would do is we would not take across the board prices. This would be product specific where the input cost impact is higher. Obviously, there would be some amount of prices increases which would kick in. This would be product specific.
Okay. Just last one clarification in this other expenses, if you can give how much was the ad spend for the quarter and the year? Also this provision which you mentioned for the classification issue, was this captured in the other expenses in this quarter?
Yeah. Two points as far as the provision for the classification issue, that has been provided for by our joint venture, ICA Pidilite. That's not something which is there in the Pidilite Industries books of accounts. Of course, it will come into consolidation, but not in the standalone books. The second point as far as the ANSP spend, yes, it is part of other expenses and which is where you are seeing a significant uptick out there. The way we manage our ANSP spend is also not typically quarter by quarter. It is more activity led, which is why we are seeing a high level of spend in quarter four.
What we should also remember is that, as an overall full year spend, the total spend is at around 3.7% to sales versus the previous year, which was close to 3.5%. On a full year basis, it's not a very significant increase. It's actually more of a timing issue.
It would stay at 3.7% to 4% range going into FY19 also, as you are looking to accelerate the volume growth?
Yeah. We have been typically operating in a 3.5% to 4% range, and as the business grows, the absolute amount which would be available for spends would also go up.
Okay, got it. Thank you so much.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Chirag Shah from CLSA. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thank you for taking my question. We spoke earlier about how Pidilite has developed a full product portfolio of joinery products. Can you just give us a little bit of an update around that, especially in the background of the fact that the MDF market in India is growing very fast?
As far as joinery product portfolio goes, as we have shared earlier, we have now a good product range. We have a good route to market. Also we have done a tie-up with this company called Jowat, which is a German company, which specializes in joinery adhesive. Overall, we are well prepared for this segment, and we are taking all the appropriate actions to ensure that we have a good market share in this segment.
Just elaborating further on that, on the Jowat JV, do we have access to their product portfolio?
Yes, we have access to certain product. Yes, certainly.
Okay. Fair enough. Thank you.
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Kartik Rastogi from ASK Capital. Please go ahead. Rastogi, please go ahead.
Yeah. Hello?
Yeah, you can go ahead.
Yeah. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. I just wanted to ask one question. How is the growth in the rural market and urban market and how Pidilite is expecting its revenues will grow in both the markets?
A smaller town or the rural growth is certainly faster than the urban towns. We are putting in extra resources to ensure that we are well prepared for the higher growth which will come from smaller towns. We are having a faster growth like many other companies in smaller towns.
Okay. I also wanted to ask, there is a shift happening because of GST from unorganized to the organized players. How do you see the business will pick up in the future? How do you see the demand picking up?
Any shift that would happen from unorganized to organized would certainly benefit a company like Pidilite. Even here, as the GST implementation has happened and as there is better enforcement, the companies who are not tax compliant will certainly suffer, and benefit of that certainly should come to more organized companies.
I would also like to add that GST implementation, while it's reached a level of stability, things like e-way bill is still being rolled out. The invoice matching, which is the ultimate objective in terms of what entitles you for the credit, that's not yet implemented. It's also something where the entire implementation process will take some more time, and gradually that's where the benefits for the organized players will also start showing up much more.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Atul Tiwari from Citigroup. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thanks a lot. Sir, in past, we have spoken about achieving 15% kind of revenue growth, and now we are there, at least in this quarter, and even higher than that probably. We are seeing demand revival. Should we expect next year a minimum of this growth and possibly even a higher number? I mean, should we reset our aspirations going ahead?
Again, as far as our aspirations are concerned, historically, over time, we have grown at 15%+, and that has always been our stated aspiration in terms of growth numbers. At the same time, we should remember that's not a target we are chasing. We do believe that as a company, we do the right things, the outcome is something which will follow. Having said that, if you look at the last couple of quarters, yes, the demand environment definitely is improving. The outlook definitely looks positive. Things are auguring well. I would still say that probably a couple of quarters is where some amount of definitiveness will come in terms of the demand pickup situation.
Okay. Sir, what will be the consolidated CapEx in FY 2019 and 2020?
Typically, our CapEx is anywhere between 2%-4% of our revenue, and while we would be adding capacities, et cetera, on an ongoing basis, we would expect to be within this range.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Prasad Deshmukh from Bank of America. Please go ahead.
I have a couple of questions. Firstly, when the raw material costs are going up, and you spoke about potential price increases also, but are there any pockets in the business, especially post GST, post-demonetization era, where you think you can save enough costs so that price increases probably can be delayed?
There are definitely a few areas in terms of whether it is the network optimization in terms of how we distribute the products, the pure logistics play, et cetera, which again, would get implemented over a period of time. But having said that, the kind of raw material increases which we are seeing currently is quite significant at this point in time. Unless they moderate, I would guess amount of price increases would be on the cards.
Second question. If I look at your debtor days, they seem to have gone up. I'm looking at post-Ind AS numbers. They've gone up from, say, 48-56 from FY 2016 to like two years consistently they are going up. Is there any reason for this?
If you look at the current year, we have also done the acquisition of CP, which has happened towards the end of the year. What you would see in debtors is that the entire debtors would come and sit over there, but the corresponding sales is not there. That's one major reason why the debtors days as of March 2018 has gone up.
Got it. Last question. In the post-GST scenario, this consolidation of industry consolidation and so on, whatever is being spoken about. The smaller guys, how are they responding? Is there a threat that they actually follow the right business practices and then probably start scaling up faster? Or is it like many of them are scaling down also?
No, it's too early to say anything. The smaller players still exist, and they are trying to run the business as best as they can. I don't think we would like to hazard a guess on how they transform or how they adopt themselves to this. I guess it would be a mix of it. Some of them may adopt and may become more organized. Some of them may not be able to manage.
Thanks a lot.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, you may press star and one for asking a question. We have our next question from the line of Rohit Kadam from Credit Suisse. Please go ahead.
Hi, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. Sir, firstly, could you please explain the rise in other income? Quite a sharp rise this quarter we've seen.
That's primarily on account of treasury income.
Okay. Can you call out for some trends going forward, or this will continue to be quite volatile?
Again, we did complete the buyback towards the end of the year, so you could see some amount of debt driven by that in Q1. As free cash flows keep getting generated, unless they are used for, say, acquisitions or any other purpose, you would expect to see an increase in treasury income, which we would have, because the cash surplus is something which in the normal course would go up.
Okay. Got it. On the second question was on the EBITDA margin band, what is it that you mentioned would be a comfortable level for you? 20%-22%?
Yes. Typically, a 21%-22% going up to a 24%-25%, that could be the band you could look at.
Okay.
Over the last couple of years, we have been at the higher end of the band.
That's right. I was looking at your gross margins historically. I think back in FY 2011/2012, when we had a similar kind of crude spike, when crude was sort of low for a couple of years, then there was a sharp spike in crude and VAM. We had about a cumulative 500 basis point gross margin impact over those two years. My question is, if we are looking at a massive gross margin impact going forward, given that you are not looking at sort of taking up sufficient price hikes, would you be willing to use your ad spends as a lever to kind of maintain EBITDA margin impact at a lower level?
I think ad spend is not something which would come in as a lever in terms of EBITDA margin, and we should also remember that we are talking about 3% up to 4% of sales, not a very significant number. It's actually the effectivity of our advertisement expense probably, which might be creating an impression that these absolute spends are very significant. Having said that, it will have to be a combination of sales mix, some amount of price increases, as well as cost efficiency. In such a scenario, it will be a combination of factors which will come into play.
Got it. That's helpful. Lastly, any price increase you have taken in the last few months which you could call out for, maybe in the last quarter?
Yeah. Some of the products we have taken price increases, both in Q4 as well as in Q1 this year. As I mentioned, this would also be products where we cannot do an across the board increase.
Got it. That's very helpful, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Participants, you may press star and one for asking a question. We have our next question from the line of Sriram R from Sundaram Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Sir, thanks for taking my question. Sir, if I go a couple of years back, around towards the end of 2015, margins were around 14%. VAM prices were around $ 900 mark. Today they are $ 1,300, and the margin that you are saying is around 20% odd levels. Is it sustainable or am I looking at a different picture? Can you just throw light on what towards the end of 2015 and compare it with what is it today?
Sir, can you please clarify the number? What are you referring to 14 and 20 means which number?
Yeah. Towards the end of 2015, FY 2015, margins were around the 14% mark.
Net profit margin or what are you talking?
EBITDA margin, sir.
EBITDA margins were actually 17%-18%.
Okay. At that time, the VAM price is around the $900 mark, right? Today, I just want to make a correlation. If there is something, can you just throw light on how the margins will be sustained going forward? How do you say 20% in terms of some inputs will be helpful.
No, I think as P. Ganesh explained clear. First of all, the VAM prices are still not really $1,300. This is a new buying price as of today. Our current cost is not $1,300. If there is a significant increase in material cost, we will take several action to mitigate the impact of that. Now, our point about remaining in a band is that we may or we may not be able to fully mitigate the impact of increase in the cost. We will use the various levers that P. Ganesh talked about to mitigate as much impact of material cost that we think is judicious to pass on.
Okay. How much will it be passed on? Just in case.
As we said that we would like to operate, as Ganesh said, we would like to operate in a band of about 20 to 23 to 25% EBITDA margin. That is the band in which we like to operate, and hence we will take various action on product pricing and other things to try to remain in that band. In the year which you mentioned, when material cost has suddenly gone up from $800 to $1,600, the impact was too fast and too sudden, and hence it had an impact in one year.
Okay.
That is something which can always happen, however, we will take whatever action we can to mitigate the impact of it while remaining in a overall EBITDA band which we have indicated.
Fine, sir. That's helpful. Thank you.
Thank you. Another reminder to all the participants, you may press star and one for asking a question. We have our next question from the line of Anand Shah from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Just a couple of questions here. Sir, firstly, on this margin profile for the domestic subsidiaries, where Nina and Percept and all, we have seen improvement. Is this the level of sustainable margins? Also on ICA, last year it was about 11%. This year, obviously, because of the classification issue, you did see a drop in margin. What's the sustainable margin level there?
Nina and Percept, we have been taking various action to improve their margin profile, including improving the product and customer mix. That has resulted in a good growth. It's too early to say what is a sustainable margin for the business. Our endeavor is to continuously try to improve the margin of these businesses, and that is largely by improving the mix that we have. We have to see this for next one or two years and see actually how this pans out. As far as ICA goes, Ganesh has explained the difficulty that we had. We faced some difficulty in Q3 and Q4 because of the product classification issue. While we are contesting that, the production and supplies have started. For long term, it's a very good and exciting business. It's a large market.
It's a market which is adjacent to Pidilite, we believe that we can build a fairly decent size business in that subsidiary.
Okay. Just one bookkeeping question. There's the others category also within this domestic subsidiary. Which businesses does this represent? There's a INR 16 crore revenue example you record in 4Q, about INR 55 crore for the full year. Apart from Nina Percept, ICA, and CP.
This is actually part of construction chemicals.
This is part of construction, but it's housed in a subsidiary, right?
Yeah.
Yeah. We have couple of subsidiaries which we had acquired or set up as a joint venture, which again supplies to other domestic subsidiaries. That is one of that. Other is also a Holdtite business which we had acquired several years ago. That Holdtite subsidiary, which has a manufacturing plant in Jammu. That operates as a separate entity, but it supplies all the products to Pidilite. That is, again, 100% subsidiary of Pidilite. However, it manufactures the product and sells to Pidilite. Some of these subsidiaries are captive in nature to sell products to Pidilite or its subsidiaries.
Okay. Sir, one more thing on construction chemicals. I read somewhere that you have sort of split distribution or teams in a way. You have a team which is now involved in educating and spreading awareness dedicated to the channel and consumers. Can you elaborate on that?
Yes. We have a team which is focused on sale and retailing, while there is a team which is used into what we call market development. Their effort is to educate customer, educate the influencers to work with various people in the ecosystem to improve the sales of the product. It is a team that does not do retailing by going shop to shop, but it is involved in market development.
Okay. This has been since how long?
It has been since some time. The structure of that team keeps on changing from time to time, depending on our priorities. It's an approach that we have had for several years.
Okay. In construction chemicals, the general uptick that you've seen apart from macro, would I be right in saying the brand-building initiative, especially Mr. Bachchan's campaign and all that, would have also helped significantly in driving growth here?
Yes, it has helped. It has helped improve the brand awareness, product awareness, and it has certainly helped sales.
Okay. Any specific product ranges there which are doing really well in construction chemicals that you can call out?
No, we would not like to call out any particular brand or product. It's a portfolio of products that we sell under Dr. Fixit brand, and several brands in that portfolio have done well.
Okay. Perfect, sir. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of individual investor, Chirag Shah. Please go ahead. Hello? Shah, please go ahead.
Is that Okay. Good evening, sir. Sir, my question is on ICA. Sir, I want to understand the normalized EBITDA margins going ahead, and also the opportunity for exports.
I think it's too early to talk about the normalized EBITDA margin, but let me explain you what we are doing. We are setting up a plant in India, in Gujarat, Khambhat. We are going to start manufacturing a lot of product in India. Earlier, most of the products were imported and repacked into India. That's a big change, which is going to help the margin. Second is, we have invested resources in sales and marketing, which would allow us to grow the business faster. Again, as the business grows faster and by local manufacturing, the cost would come down. The EBITDA of this business will improve. Again, we would not like to give any band on the projected margin, but clearly we are working towards a structural improvement in margin over next several years.
Okay. Sir, what would be the current margins? Because this quarter was a wash completely, that's why.
Currently, the margins are strictly not comparable because sales was impacted as well as given that we have paid additional taxes under protest, the margins are also impacted. It is not strictly comparable.
Okay, fine. Who are the two close competitors to ICA?
There are paint companies, all the paint company. I think Asian Paints has this business. There is a company called Sirca which has this business. There are several players who are in the wood finishes market. Some of them have premium wood finishes like Asian Paints and couple of other companies. Largely paint companies are in this segment and there are a couple of other companies who are also into wood finishes.
Okay, fine. Sir, any outlook on export for this product?
We are operating at the higher end of the markets. We are operating in specialized premium wood finishes, which we believe is a faster-growing market.
Okay. Any-
Currently the focus is on the domestic market, and that is where we are working towards scaling up.
Okay. Sir, any outlook on revenue for FY 2019 for this particular segment?
No, we would not like to give any outlook, but you can understand from our efforts that since we are setting up a manufacturing plant, we have entered into this joint venture, it's clearly with intention of making it a sizable business. What it would actually be next one or two years is something which we would not like to call out.
Okay, sir. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Manish Poddar from Renaissance Investment. Please go ahead.
Hi, Apurva. Congrats on the results. Just wanted to get your thoughts. What will give us confidence that we'll be more confident about the outlook going ahead? That's what metric you all internally would suggest?
We don't look at metrics like that. Our effort is to have a proper strategy and then to ensure that we execute the strategy well. Sometimes there are certain factors which would not allow us to achieve our desired growth rate. Our effort is to continue doing the right set of things, and that is what we are clearly focused on. We really do not spend a lot of time looking at external factors which are not in our control. We continue to do both things which we believe are right for the business. If sometimes the factors are against you, we may see a little slower growth rate. On a medium to long-term period, we believe that if we execute our strategy well, we should be able to achieve our desired growth rates.
Okay. Have you called out any price hike which you have taken, let's say, off late to cover this RM price pressure?
Yes, we have taken the price increase in some of the products already, as there is further strengthening of raw material price, we will take further appropriate pricing actions.
How much would it be blended, let's say, broadly?
Currently, I think, Ganesh, anything on that?
Again, these are product-specific. If you look at the rubber-based products where, again, there was a significant increase in RM cost, the increases would be in the range of, say, 2%-5%.
Okay. Okay, fine. Thanks.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sanket Sanghavi from Ascon. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for taking my question. My question is, in 2018, as you entered into a joint venture with Jowat, it's a leading industrial adhesives. Sir, where do you see how much % of revenue will be coming from this sector and how much kind of market share do you actually assume that it will dominate in India?
First of all, it is not a joint venture, and second is, we would clearly not like to give any specific figures about an individual business like this. Jowat is a leading player in certain type of adhesives, and our tie-up with them would certainly help our business. I would not like to give out specific figures of how much we plan to achieve or what share we are likely to achieve. It will clearly strengthen our business and would help us grow it faster in that product technology.
Okay. One more question, sir. We've seen in quarter-on-quarter results, sir, the consumer and bazaar products, the revenue that we were earning has gone down. Could you just highlight more on that thing?
Sorry, can you repeat your question?
Sir, the consumer and bazaar products, the revenue coming from the consumer and bazaar products quarter-over-quarter has declined from the third quarter to fourth quarter. Sir, could you just throw more light on that thing?
If you look at growth, in fact, consumer bazaar sales, we have actually had a good growth.
I think comparing Q3 values. See, quarter-over-quarter comparison is not valid for us. There are various factors of seasonality and otherwise, and hence you cannot compare Q3 sales with Q4 sales. That's what you are asking, right?
Yes, got it.
That is not comparable at all in our case because of seasonality and several other factors, which is channel inventory and other things. Traditionally for us, Q4 is the slowest quarter, and Q2 and Q3 tend to be higher quarters. This is a pattern that you would see for the last many, many years.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. As there are no further questions, I hand the conference back to the management for closing comments.
I'd like to thank everyone for coming on the call. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. On behalf of Axis Capital Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.