Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to PNC Infratech Limited Q3 FY 2021/2022 earnings conference call hosted by DAM Capital Advisors Ltd. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Kumar.
Thank you, Nirav. Good afternoon. On behalf of DAM Capital, I welcome you all to PNC Infra Q3 FY 2022 earnings conference call. From the management side, we have with us Mr. Yogesh Kumar Jain, Managing Director, Mr. Bhupinder Sawhney, Chief Financial Officer and Vice President Finance, Mr. Devendra Kumar Maheshwari. To begin with, we'll have opening remarks from the management followed by Q&A. Over to you, sir.
Yeah. Good afternoon, everyone, and a very warm welcome to all present on the call to discuss quarter three financial year 2022, our financial results. Along with me, I have Mr. T.R. Gaur, Director Infra, Dr. Rupinder Sawhney, CFO, and Mr. DK Maheshwari, VP Finance and Strategic Growth Advisors, our Investor Relations advisors. I hope everyone is safe and taking all necessary precautions to protect yourself and others. I will first share my views on key sectoral development and highlights, and then share operational and strategic financial highlights of the company. Though overall highway bidding activity by NHAI has been active during financial year 2022, the awarding activity by NHAI has been a bit subdued during January and first half of February.
It is expected that awarding activity will be picked up by NHAI during the next one and a half months of financial year 2022 to match financial year 2021 figure of 4,818 kilometers. In the recently announced Union Budget, government continued its focus on infrastructure sectors across the sectors. As per the budget announcement, the national highway networks in the country will be expanded by 25,000 kilometers in 2022/2023. With emphasis on road development for accelerated socioeconomic growth and employment generation, government increased allocation for development of roads and highways by 69% to INR 1.98 lakh crore in financial year 2023 budget from INR 1.18 lakh crore initially made in financial year 2022 budget.
In the comparison to budget of financial year 2022, absolute increase in allocation towards road sector has been INR 81,000 crore, out of which increase in allocation to NHAI being more than INR 76,600 crore. This rapid increase of national highway network and substantial increase in budgetary allocation for road sector is a sign of encouragement and inspiration to the highway development firms in the country. PM Gati Shakti Master Plan will encompass the seven engines for multi-modal connectivity in the country with the speedier implementation of the project through technology, digitalization and networking to facilitate faster movement of goods and people so that overall logistic costs are reduced. Government also allocated INR 60,000 crore for financial year 2022/2023 for Jal Jeevan Mission to provide potable water to 3.8 crore households and villages.
In the budget, government also announced that the draft DPRs for river linking, five river linking project has been finalized, which include Gangajal, Damanganga-Pinjal, Par-Tapi-Narmada, Godavari-Krishna, Krishna-Pennar, and Pennar-Cauvery. FASTag-based toll collection picked up significantly in quarter three FY 2022 and reached record high monthly collection at INR 3,679 crore in December 2021, which roughly translated into an average daily collection of INR 119 crore per day. As per the data released by the National Payments Corporation of India, the toll collection increased INR 502 crore in December 2021 on month-on-month basis, which was primarily driven by increased economic activities led by festive season and spurt in manufacturing activity. Now coming to the key updates of the company.
During the quarter, the company received LOA from NHAI for collection of user fee at 135 km long Eastern Peripheral Expressway, three plaza in the state of Haryana and Uttar Pradesh for one year for a contract value of INR 369 crore. On 25 January 2020, the company in joint venture received LOA for three new EPC project, namely survey, design, preparation of DPR, construction, commissioning, and operation maintenance for 10 years of rural water supply for total villages of 2,337 in the state of Uttar Pradesh from State Water and Sanitation Mission, Namami Gange and Rural Water Supply Department, Government of Uttar Pradesh.
The approximate aggregate value of above three water projects is INR 2,337 crore, and its specific value will be known at the time of execution of agreement after preparation and approval of detailed project reports. The above projects are to be constructed in 12 months upon approval of DPR and signing of agreement and operated for 10 years post-commissioning. As mentioned in the previous earnings calls, the company continue to focus on diversification in the project development business to continue the growth momentum without any major concentration risk. However, given the strong pipeline of upcoming projects from NHAI and MoRTH, our focus area would continue to be the road sector. The recent trend of contract awarding in the water sector is very encouraging. We look forward in increasing our presence in the water sector through Jal Jeevan Mission.
We believe that the pipeline of projects to remain robust from this mission in the long term. However, the company will focus on consolidated the ongoing water sector project first. At present, the company has a total of 19 projects on PPP format, comprising BOT toll, BOT-Annuity, OMT, and HAM projects. Out of these 19 projects, we have 11 HAM projects with a total bid project cost of INR 16,144 crore. From our HAM portfolio of 11 projects, we have achieved COD of, and PCOD of five projects, and remaining six are under construction. In terms of equity investment, total requirement for these 11 projects would be around INR 1,468 crore, out of which we have already invested INR 7.9 crore till December 2021, and the balance will be invested over the next two to three years.
The internal accruals generated from the next two to three years should be sufficient to fund the total equity investment. Now moving on to our order book. As mentioned earlier, the company has focused on diversification of the order book, and the results are visible in the current order book. Our unexecuted order book for 31 December 2021 was over INR 12,000 crore including all the projects for which we have already received letter of award. Our order book would be over INR 14,300 crore. That gives a strong revenue visibility for company over the two to three years. Of the total order book of INR 12,000 crore, the roads EPC contract contributes around 24%, road HAM projects contribute around 45%, and water and irrigation contributes around 31%. Update on Ghaziabad-Aligarh project divestment.
We have signed the share purchase agreement on April 1, 2021 with Cube Highways, and as on date, we have received NOC from all 10 bankers. NOC from NHAI for change in NOC is also received. Formal approvals for final COD and extension of concession period on account of reduced traffic are awaited from NHAI. We are expecting receipt of consideration from this transaction from Cube upfront on the closing date and our share of agreed earn-out after FY 2023. However, the company considered an impairment amounting to INR 39 crore in its investment in the SPV during the quarter ending December 31, 2021. Balance of impairment, if needed, would be considered upon receipt of consideration from Cube , which is expected by the end of FY 2022, and assessment of earn-out.
Now I would present the results for the quarter ended December 31st, 2021. Before discussing financial performance, I would like to share that during quarter three of FY 2022, the company has considered an impairment of INR 39 crore in the investment made in the Ghaziabad-Aligarh road project and has provided the same under other expenses. We have adjusted the above to make financial performance comparable with the previous corresponding periods. Financial results of standalone and consolidated without considering the impact of impairment. Revenue of third quarter of FY 2022 is INR 1,522 crore, which is higher by-
Ladies and gentlemen, please stay connected. The line for the management call. Participants, please stay connected while we join the management back to the call. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your patience. We have the line for the management reconnected. Sir, you may go ahead.
We can start from financial results, sir?
Sure, sir.
9 months result.
Mohit, sir? Hello?
Hello. We can start from result of nine months or from starting financial year?
Nine months. Nine months, sir. Nine months.
Revenue of nine months financial year 2022 is INR 4,388 crore, which is higher by 34% as compared to INR 3,281 crore in nine months of financial year 2021. The EBITDA for nine months financial year 2022 is INR 602 crore, which is higher by 37% as compared to INR 440 crore in nine months financial year 2021. The EBITDA margin for nine months of financial year 2022 is 13.7%. The profit for nine months of financial year 2022 is INR 349 crore as compared to INR 233 crore in nine months of financial year 2021, a growth of 50% on year-to-year basis. Consolidated financials for the quarter ended 31 December 2021.
Consolidated revenue of quarter three financial year 2022 is INR 1,722 crore as compared to INR 1,582 crore in quarter three financial year 2021, with a growth of 9%. The consolidated EBITDA for the third quarter of financial year 2022 is INR 365 crore. The EBITDA margin for quarter three financial year 2022 is 21.2%. The consolidated PAT for quarter three financial year 2022 is INR 117 crores. Consolidated revenue of nine months financial year 2022 is INR 4,982 crore compared to INR 3,923 crore in nine months financial year 2021, with a growth of 27%.
The consolidated EBITDA for nine months of 2022 is INR 1,093 crore, which increased by 10% as compared to INR 998 crore for the corresponding period last year. The EBITDA margin for nine months financial year 2022 is 21.9%. The consolidated PAT for nine months 2022 is INR 362 crore as compared to INR 347 crore in nine months financial year 2021, a growth of 6%. On the standalone balance sheet side, as on 31st December 2021, our net working cycle is 96 days. Our net worth on standalone basis is INR 3,205 crores as on 31st December 2021. Whereas total standalone debt is INR 339 crore. As on 31st December 2021, we do not have any working capital loan.
The total cash and bank balance as on 31st December 2021 is INR 246 crore. This translates to net debt to equity of 0.11x . On consolidated basis, our net worth is INR 3,374 crore, whereas total debt is INR 4,431 crore as on 31 December 2021. The total cash and bank balance, including current investment, is INR 854 crore. This translates to net debt to equity of 1.31x . With this, we now open the floor for question and answers. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking the question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The first question is from the line of Abhishek Singh from PhillipCapital India. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for taking my question and congrats on strong executions once again. My first question was basically on the order inflows this year. Is there any specific reason why throughout the year and whichever the period is left, you will be able to basically capture more good orders from NHAI and PWD.
[Non-English content] projects 5 EPC 2 TOT projects already we have submitted. That amount is around INR 17,000 crore. We are expecting three to four bids out of bids.
Okay. Sir, [Non-English content] or they can go to next year also?
All bids are submitted.
Yes, yes. [Non-English content] These bids are expected to be opened, the financial bids before the end of March.
Okay.
Yeah, you know, the competition has been very, very steep and very aggressive because of the widespread relaxation of the qualification criteria, as well as the dispensing with the bid security. Now, recently the ministry has taken a decision to restore the bid security in both EPC as well as HAM bids. Certainly, this will have an effect on the competition. This will act as a threshold and work as a barrier. We also see going forward, the competition will subside. Nevertheless, whatever bids we have submitted, we have submitted a total of ten bids of an aggregate value of INR 17,000 crores, which are under evaluation and which will be opened before end of this financial year.
We expect, as our MD said, nearly around 4-5 bids, 5 projects out of these bids.
Okay, sir. Got it. [Non-English content] next one and half months [Non-English content] .
[Non-English content] qualification criteria [Non-English content] change [Non-English content] earnest money [Non-English content] earnest money [Non-English content].
Okay.
[Non-English content] will be better time for us.
Got it, sir. Got it. Sir, secondly, sir, [Non-Englsih contents] opening remarks [Non-English contents] Jal Jeevan Mission [Non-English contents] ?
[Non-English contents]
Sir, Ken-Betwa interlinking river. [Non-English contents] .
[Non-English content]
[Non-English content] linking project [Non-English content], river linking [Non-English content] bid [Non-English content]। Sorry, can you.
Definitely [Non-English content] evaluate [Non-English content] opportunity [Non-English content] initial stages [Non-English content] . Definitely we will evaluate.
Thank you very much.
I'll come back if you have anything more.
Thank you. I request all the participants, please restrict to two questions per participant. If time permit, please come back in the question queue for a follow-up question. The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Congratulations on a decent quarter. My first question is on JJM project. If you can tell us, out of the INR 3,200 crores order book which was there. What is the pending order book? And how much was the revenues in nine months and third quarter of this financial year?
Okay. See, to all the listeners, to all the analysts, because this, whatever statements we'll be making will be the forward-looking statements will not assume any warranty or representation or anything, express or implied. These are subject to all kinds of risk and uncertainties. And the final actual results would be materially different from what the statements we are making today. This will be whatever we are talking and whatever we are sharing of information will be subject to the standard disclaimer and safe harbor. Okay. Second thing, when it comes to Jal Jeevan Mission. Jal Jeevan Mission under phase two, we got around 2,476 villages.
That is the PNC share, out of 3,500 villages we got, 3,400 villages we got. Out of 2,476 villages, we already submitted DPR for 2,003 villages, which roughly translates into 82% of DPRs have been submitted. We also signed the tripartite agreements. DPR approved by the state level committee for about 1,077 villages we already got it. This is out of 1,077 villages, we commenced work at more than 400 villages. 200 bores already drilled. The remaining bores are underway. During the first nine months, only we raised bills for the DPR preparation and some boring kind of a thing.
This fourth quarter, we'll be doing billing maybe say around INR 100 crore-INR 150 crore before end of this financial year. We also received more than INR 130 crore interest-free mobilization advance from the Jal Jeevan Mission.
What is the total order book, sir, as of now, nine months order book on these projects?
The nine months order book, we got a project of 2,337 new villages we got. Earlier we have a 2,476. Total we have a 4,830 villages.
Okay.
Yeah.
Second question.
We are considering INR 1 crore per village when we prepare the DPR and when we get the DPRs approved, this is coming on an average of INR 1.4 crores. Four thousand eight hundred crores will roughly translate into more than, I think around INR 7,000 crores. We'll come to know only once these all DPRs are approved and then we sign our agreements.
Okay. My second question is on Aligarh-Ghaziabad project. If you can highlight some numbers. As I remember correctly, we had about including loans and advances, equity and, receivables to be realized from the FPE, about INR 300 crore plus. If you can highlight how that number increased now, and the INR 39 crore write-off is the funding part which we did for this quarter, that's why you've taken the write-off. Can you just highlight on that?
Actually, MD has confirmed that we have received the NOC from all the 10 lenders. We have received the change in ownership NOC from NHAI. As regards the COD extension of time, this has already been approved and minutes are awaited from NHAI, which is expected within this time. After discussing with the auditors, conservatively, management has assessed that the amount we have included on account of the unsecured loan and the debtors, we have provided 10% as impairment in this quarter.
The total amount is, you are saying INR 390 crore is the total exposure then?
Yeah, INR 390 crores is on account of unsecured loan and this debtor and the.
How much we are expecting to realize from Q funded deals then? That means about INR 360 crores we will get after deducting INR 40 crores. We should get about INR 350 odd crores from this?
If certain things are still awaited to an extent, that's an unknown package from Cube Highways and certain from partners. As soon as we will receive the minutes of the NHAI, then settlement and distribution will be clear. That is why Yogeshj has confirmed that we will consider in the FY 2022 impairment in case if needed or in the FY 2023 after receiving the amount.
Okay. Got it, sir. Understood. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mayur from Profitmart Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. I just want to ask what is the outlook for the next quarter? What is your thoughts on that? Thank you.
As already informed in the earlier call that this year we are expecting the top line with the growth around 20%, and certainly we will achieve.
Okay, sir.
Topline with 20% compared to FY 2021.
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir.
Mayur, do you have any follow-up question?
No, sir. That's it.
The next question is from the line of Jiteen Rushe from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good afternoon, sir. Thanks for taking my question and congratulations on the set of numbers. Sir, my first question will be on the order backlog breakup project-wise. I would require the order backlog for Delhi-Vadodara Package 31, Delhi-Vadodara Package 29. There are more orders, I will repeat. If you can tell me one by one, then I can just note it down, sir, please.
Package 31 outstanding is INR 637 crore and package 29 of Vadodara is INR 590 crore.
590, okay. Sir, this Purvanchal package 5, 6 in Mumbai-Nagpur Expressway.
Purvanchal 5 almost completed, which is negligible. Purvanchal 6 is also around INR 89-90 crore.
Mumbai-Nagpur?
Nagpur-Mumbai, INR 110 crore.
Okay, on the old packages of Bhojpur, Koilwar, Nagina, Varanasi, what is the status?
Bhojpur outstanding is INR 90 crore and Koilwar, INR 85 crore.
Is complete.
Nagina-Kashipur, INR 120 crore.
Varanasi complete?
Yeah.
Sorry, sir. INR 120 crore you said, Nagina?
Yeah, yeah.
Varanasi complete?
This quarter it will be completed in the current quarter.
Okay.
This Nagina-
Varanasi also we completed. There is no significant order backlog there. We completed, we received the completion certificate for that.
Completion certificate. Sir, this Jhansi package one and Chakeri Allahabad?
Package one also, we received completion certificate on 28th January this quarter.
Mm-hmm.
There is no order backlog as on that. It's no significant order backlog in Jhansi package one. In Jhansi, secondly, there was INR 460 crore outstanding.
Which package, sir?
Secondly.
Okay. INR 460 crore. Okay. Sir, continuing on that, what is the Andhra Pradesh, because you said that till December we cannot do the execution because of the extreme monsoon and the status. So whether have you done any execution in December or the order backlog is still INR 975 crore and the execution has started from January?
No, in the December quarter, we have done some execution where there is, the water is not released.
Mm-hmm.
Again, we'll resume the canal works and other things from the first week of March.
Okay. What is the outstanding order backlog then in that project?
It's around INR 960 crore.
960. Okay. Sir, this UP water supply project of INR 275 crores which we had received, what is that order backlog, sir?
INR 2,700 crores.
No, 2,700 opening. Last quarter it was INR 255 crore as on September.
Maybe, maybe INR 246 crore.
sir, we have not booked any revenue from this other two UP project of, say, INR 32 billion. You'll be booking revenue from Q4 of INR 100 crore-INR 150 crore. Right, sir?
Q4 we will book the revenues.
The next question is on the balance sheet numbers. You can give me the debtors, creditors, inventory, unbilled revenue, retention and mobilization advances.
Mobilization advance was INR 536 crore in December 2021.
Mm-hmm.
Debtors was INR 1,500 crores, sir, which was debtor days of 96 days.
Creditors, inventory, retention, unbilled.
Retention was INR 303 crore.
Inventory and creditors, sir? Hello?
Yes, yes.
Yes.
Inventory is 50.
How much, sir?
INR 4 crore. INR 494 crore inventory.
INR 494 crore. Creditors would be?
In.
Hello?
Creditors is INR 1,140 crore.
Any unbilled, sir, or just small only as usual?
For Delhi ART, very negligible.
Sir, why is the debtor days were high, like 96 days? It's very high as compared to our usual run rate. Any reason why or we have done some late bookings which resulted in high debtors?
Actually, debtor days, as you are aware that PFC in fact is not helping to utilize the limit. That is why we have not taken the disbursement from our HAM project from the lender. Irrespective, we have some amount we are discounting at the rate of 4%. Instead of taking the disbursement from lender, we are discounting the bill at the rate of 4%. That is why debtor days slightly higher because of the outstanding in the HAM project.
What is that number, outstanding?
INR 940 crore and again INR 15 crore, INR 1,500 crore.
INR 940 crore is the outstanding from HAM projects as on December.
Which is 61% of the total debtor process.
Total debtors. This strategy will continue this quarter also, that you'll be not taking in traditional debt from the.
We have started to take the disbursement.
Take the disbursement. Okay. Sir, what is the toll collection numbers, sir, for the projects?
Toll collection in MP highway were INR 12.8.
Okay. This is in crores, right, sir?
Yeah. In OMT Kanpur-Ayodhya is 121.5.
Okay.
Kanpur Highway 33.5.
36.5? Okay.
33.5.
33.5. Okay.
Narela is 10.7.
Okay.
And Bareilly Almora is 14.30 .
Okay. Ghaziabad?
Ghaziabad is 54.5.
Okay. Sir, CapEx, nine-month CapEx in Q4 target and next year CapEx target, sir, and revenue growth and revenue growth guidance next year and margin guidance.
The CapEx, we have earlier informed around INR 125 crore, but in nine months we have taken only INR 20 crore, and we are expecting around INR 40 crore-INR 50 crore by end FY 2022.
Next year?
Next year it should be around INR 125 crore.
What is the revenue guidance for next year?
Next year revenue guidance, again subject to disclaimer, we are.
No, we understand that. Right, sir.
15%.
Are you bidding for any projects, other than which Government Expressway Subcontracting? Are we looking to bid for such projects because we are bidding for TOT model, which is again the asset heavy model. If you have not participated in the BOT projects of Bundelkhand Expressway, then what is the logic of bidding for this TOT project? Are you interested in taking any subcontracting work from Adani? That's it from my side.
See, actually, the TOT projects are brownfield projects. All the TOT projects are brownfield projects which have a tangible toll revenue history. In case of a Ganga Expressway being a very greenfield project and completely a greenfield alignment, so there we perceive some risk in that, whether the traffic or how the traffic will be diverted from the existing network to this road.
Mm-hmm.
How much time will it take to ramp up the traffic?
Mm-hmm.
Other consideration, this is a key consideration with the traffic revenue risk. We have not.
We do it. Are you planning to take any subcontracting work from Adani and IRB for this Ganga Expressway if they award any because we are the expert in UP?
As of now, we are not this thing, so even between two corporates, don't want to discuss much on that.
Thank you very much. I'll then request to come back in the question queue. A request to all the participants, please restrict to two questions per participant. The next question is from the line of Faisal Hawa from H.G Hawa and Co. Please go ahead.
Sir, do you see any kind of risk emerging from, you know, the high debt levels that NHAI is having at this point of time? Could it be a reason for their, you know, releasing these orders not on time in this financial year also?
See, what has happened. Because of the code of conduct is still in force in Uttar Pradesh, and also they have some in.
Very strict.
Five states where these projects are located. They are taking some time for evaluation because they also want to appoint the independent engineers before awarding these contracts to the concessionaires and the contractors. This is getting delayed, but we expect the opening of the financial bids as well as the awarding activity will be picked up maybe next one and a half months before end of this financial year, so that the NHAI would like to meet their targets.
How do you feel about the high debt levels that NHAI is carrying? Could it be a risk to the entire industry?
That is a very large issue, and I think we don't want to comment on that. Being a government authority and also NHAI got loose assets, and also then they also want to go for a monetization and they also have other frameworks like InvIT and all. It would be very difficult to comment on that. As such, we don't foresee any major risk in that aspect.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you, sir. Most of the questions have been answered. Just trying to again understand in terms of the guidance when we are saying 20% for this year. That means we are looking deeper in the fourth quarter on the top line front. Is it right?
See, pardon. Can you come back again?
Sir, I am saying that when we are saying that we can get a 20% top line growth for this year, does that mean we are looking at 25% in the fourth quarter on the top line front?
See, fourth quarter would be definitely better than the fourth quarter of last financial year, corresponding quarter of the last year. That top line, what my colleague has mentioned is a 20% minimum. It would be maybe between 20% to 23% or 24% kind of a thing.
Okay. Next year when we are saying 15%, that is based on the assumption that even if you can repeat in terms of the order inflow, we are expecting four to five projects out of 19 bids. How much is the value of each of these projects or average size? In general, how much are we targeting to get the order inflow in this one and a half months?
Yeah. See, we have already secured orders worth INR 2,700 crore. As we had earlier mentioned, our total expected order inflow for the current financial year would be INR 8,000 crore. Since we already got INR 2,700 crore, we are looking forward to have a order of around INR 4,000 crore-INR 5,000 crore before end of this current financial year.
Okay. It is slightly on the lower side. Next year we can look at INR 10,000+ crore kind because to sustain the growth of 15% we need a sizable order inflow or rather we need to keep on increasing the order inflow from FY 2023 onwards. Just trying to understand if that is the case, are we only looking at the road as a case? Because previously we are looking at airport and other also. Now as we said in water we will be first now consolidating. Are we looking further order inflow in the water also or only the road that would be the driving 70%-80% of order inflow?
There also, how much are we now comfortable to look at the HAM projects as a inflow for this out of this INR 4,000 crore-INR 5,000 crore and for next year also how much we can take HAM projects?
Sir, our road sector portfolio even in the order flow also we are expecting around 70%-75% from the road sector. Because that will continue to be our focus area and focus sector. Whatever orders we'll be expecting from the roads and highways will be on a 50/50 basis kind of a thing. We always look forward to have a 50% HAM projects and 50% EPC projects, so that there is a balance between the fund-based and non-fund-based projects. Jal Jeevan Mission, since because government has already allocated INR 60,000 crore in the FY 2023 for the Jal Jeevan Mission, so many other state governments will also come. Also it is expected the fourth phase also will come from, in, from the Uttar Pradesh.
There also we look forward to have a bid for them in case good opportunities are there in the Jal Jeevan Mission. As our managing director has mentioned, before embarking on the new projects, whatever projects we got, 4,800 villages, we want to consolidate them. We want to submit the DPRs and start the work on those projects before venturing into the further scope. Definitely in FY 2023 you have another 13 months from now, so we look forward to have projects in that. In case of the airport sector, we also have a because there's a lot of synergy between the roads and the airports, particularly airfield pavements and all. We also see if good opportunities are there, EPC opportunities are there in the airport sector, we will bid it.
Okay. Sir, just if you can help me in terms of the asset monetization. Previously we said that we were looking at five HAM and one annuity project, so where INR 650 crore equity has invested. Where are we? Will it be a direct sale or InvIT form? How much time it will take? When can we see the announcement? And at the same time, in terms of this water, continuing on that part, so the previous three water projects is INR 3,500-odd crore. You, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, you mentioned that in terms of the DPR post that, does that value can increase sizably in terms of after finalizing the DPR?
Broadly, how much revenue are we looking at in FY 2023 from this INR 3,500-odd crore?
See, definitely, once the DPR gets finalized, there will be increase in the estimate. Now we are assuming that INR 1 crore per village, this can go up to INR 1.3-1.4 crore on an average two village. There will be around 30%-40% increase in the value of these water projects. Whatever this first phase we have, 2,476 villages, it roughly translates to INR 2,000-3,000 crore. Fifty percent of that we are expecting in FY 2023. It roughly comes to around INR 1,500 crore. Maybe, it may further increase, but it will be around INR 1,500 crore execution in FY 2023.
That's great. Now on the asset monetization front of five HAM and one annuity.
Yes, sir. We have received the three proposals for monetization, which are still under evaluation. We should be able to take a decision on this before the end of FY 2022, followed by the due diligence by the prospective buyer.
Are we only looking at direct sale and not the InvIT format, or that is, that option is also available?
Yes. That option is also available, but we'll see what kind of valuation we are getting, which, finally we'll be getting from these, proposals what we receive. The final call, we take a call, before end of this financial year accordingly.
Broad timeline in terms of getting our equity back, is it fair to say that FY 2023 may not we see some, any kind of an inflow coming back in terms of the equity coming back? It most likely would be in the FY 2024. Is it a right understanding?
Yes. Largely it is a right understanding.
Thank you. Item 27, I request you to come back in the question queue. I request all the participants, please restrict to two questions per participant. If time permits, please come back in the question queue for a follow-up question. The next question is from the line of Alok Deora from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon and congratulations on decent quarter. Just a lot of questions were already answered. Just one question on the TOT bidding. Just wanted to understand the strategy there, because how much of this kind of asset-heavy projects we are willing to take? Because you know a few quarters back we have mentioned that we are not looking at any sort of a toll projects. Now that we are looking to bid for TOT projects, which has a very long-term kind of toll collection. How much of this would we are looking to keep as a part of our overall order book going forward?
This particularly what out of three TOT bundles, bundle six, bundle seven and bundle eight, we bid for two bundles. As you know, the bundle six is virtually in our backyard. It is Agra Bypass. So there we know about the project. In fact, we executed EPC of that project. So with certain considerations, we bid for that. In case of the TOT bundle seven, there we got a one-year toll user fee collection contract for one year. So there we are the highest bidder, and we got the project, and we started toll collection from first of January. There also we got some firsthand information. So with that we've done.
In a long-term strategy, we are not looking at a TOT as the kind of area where we'll be pursuing. These two we are bidding with some specific reasons, and also which are very close to our area of business and the center of our operations.
Sure. The water project which we won very recently, when is that expected to start?
Water projects, what we got in the month of January 2,337 projects. Now we are expecting the list of villages provided by the Jal Jeevan Mission and the State Water and Sanitation Mission by March. We'll have three months time to prepare the DPRs and getting the DPRs approved. You can say by the end of June. Once the DPRs get approved, we'll commence these projects you can say from the Q2 of FY 2023.
Sure. Large part would come in the second half of FY 2023 in terms of revenue recognition.
Usually, when we start the project, then there will be some enabling works and other things, and boring. The substantial execution will start from the H2 of FY 2023.
Oh, oh. Yeah, that's all from my side, sir. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of , Vijay Kumar from Spark Capital Advisors. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Am I audible?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. My question is on this Jal Jeevan Mission projects. If the final project cost or value is not finalized, based on what is this order awarded, the INR 2,337 L1. That is just an initial estimate, and it will change after your DPR preparation. Is that the understanding?
Yes. It is an initial estimate of 2,337. Initial estimate says INR 1 crore per village, subject to preparation and approval of the DPRs.
Right. Still the L1 mechanism is what is used to award these projects, right?
Yeah, yeah. See, these projects are awarded based on there is a set of BOQs there. Then on those rates, one has to bid the plus or minus kind of a thing. Whoever quotes the lowest, the bids are awarded. Based on the quantities of the DPRs, these already pre-agreed BOQ rates are applied, and then accordingly, project cost is decided for each village.
Understood. How will the cost pass through mechanism in this Jal Jeevan Mission projects? Would we have any problems due to the material cost increases?
In the phase two, we have an escalation provision for the regime. In case of any increase in the HDPE pipe, HDPE material, there is an escalation provision there in the phase two. In the phase three, they have removed that provision. Otherwise there is no provision for the escalation in the Jal Jeevan Mission. The rates, whatever the rates, BOQ rates or whatever, it has considered some kind of an escalation factor in that. Any steep increase or any unexpected increase in the basic input material, it'll have some pressure on the margin. There is something already built in these rates.
What will be the typical mix of components in a project? Like, how much percentage of cost would be, say, pipes, pumps, electrical works and civil works?
I don't have it readily, the breakup. We can share with you separately.
What kind of margins are you expecting in these projects, sir, including or excluding some margin pressures in the next one year.
Something around, it will be 14% EBITDA.
Sure. Okay, that's it from my side. Thank you so much, sir. I will probably get in touch with you on this water project soon.
Okay.
Okay. Thank you. Yeah.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahul Singh from Phillip Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Yogesh sir, thanks for taking my question again. Sir, just two questions. One, a bookkeeping question. What is the outstanding order value of Lucknow Railway in the order book?
Lucknow Railway. It is INR 700 crore, sir.
INR 700 crore?
Yeah.
Right, sir. Just one last question from my side. Sir, in the last 25 days, sir, we are trying to restrict ourselves and bid for only in the north of and central part of India, or is it just coincidence?
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Except Kerala.
Okay. Any specific reason, sir, [Non-English content].
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[Non-English content ] sir. Thank you so much, sir. Thanks for answering my question, and wish you all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Uttam Kumar Srimal from Axis Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir, for giving the opportunity and congratulations on good set of numbers. Sir, can you give the break-up of equity investment in HAM? How much we have invested in this year and the balance that will be invested in this year and the budget for the next two years in the HAM projects?
Actually, we require INR 1,470 crore total equity in 11 HAM projects. Out of that, INR 750 crore we have already infused till December. The remaining INR 720 crore we have to infuse in this quarter and next two years.
Okay. Sir, how much would be invested in the fourth quarter?
Fourth quarter, around INR 200 crore. FY 2023, INR 320 crore, and FY 2024, INR 200 crore. Total requirement-
Okay, sir. That's all from my side. Thank you, sir. Okay.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parvez Akhtar Qazi from Edelweiss Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good afternoon, and thanks for taking my question. Overall, just wanted to get your views on the impact of commodity prices on our margins for the HAM project execution that we are doing. At a blended level, what is the kind of margins that we will see, let's say, in FY 2023?
HAM projects.
HAM projects EPC work.
Yeah, I'm talking about the margin EPC work that we do on HAM projects.
It will be between 13%-14%.
Okay. Sure. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for taking my question, sir, and congratulations on a decent set of numbers this quarter. Sir, just a small clarification on this water supply orders in Uttar Pradesh. You said, I mean, the cost estimate could change from INR 1 to 1.2, 1.3 or 1.4 crore rupees per village. I am assuming, I mean, this variation would essentially be because of change in the BOQ and not the price that you would have given for each of these items that you need to use. Am I right in my understanding?
Yes.
Okay.
BOQ rates are whatever it is agreed to. Increase in the quantities will result in the increase in the overall cost of the projects.
Sure.
The rates will remain same.
Sure. Could there be a situation wherein, let's say, I mean, you submit a DPR with certain amount, I mean, a number in terms of BOQ that you would be required to use, and authority was not to agree with that quantity and make you go back your estimates. Because essentially, let's say, I mean, assuming there's a loophole, right? I mean, at the time of bidding, I could quote a number in terms of BOQ which is low and then suddenly go and revise that number. You could.
At the time of quoting the thing, we are only quoting for the rates.
Okay.
We are quoting for the items because in fact these items.
Got it.
Rates are so fixed, we are only quoting ± percentage.
Okay.
Subsequently, the quantities what we are putting, we are based on this site surveys and site studies.
Mm-hmm.
We are arriving at the quantities for each village, and then we are preparing the DPR.
Sure.
Only after approval of the DPR only we'll start the execution. There won't be any kind of differences later. Because they will approve the DPR.
Right.
They will approve the quantity for each item.
Right.
The rate what was pre-decided, that will be applied, and then execution will be undertaken accordingly.
Sure.
There won't be any difference, because whatever DPR we are submitting, they're duly approved.
Sure. No, no, I understand that. I was wondering, I mean, could there be a situation we've not had that situation till this time, but could there be a situation wherein you give a certain number in terms of BOQ and the authority says, "No, I mean, this is not the right number. I mean, it is possible to be able to do it for a lesser quantity." Could there be a situation? I understand, you've not had that issue till this time.
They have issued guideline for.
Each item and each.
DPR.
Yeah. DPR and they, their set guidelines are there. We are preparing DPRs based on those guidelines.
Sure, sir. Understand this. On cash side, our cash balance has come down this quarter. Is it possible to explain this INR 250 crore of cash reduction on a sequential basis? What would explain this? Because when I look at our net working capital cycle, it essentially seems, I mean, it is lower than last quarter, which essentially means, I mean, working capital maybe would not have infused any significant money. INR 95 crore I understand is the equity infused. What would explain the balance around INR 160 crore of reduction in the cash balance?
Well, I told you that we have not taken the disbursement.
Mm-hmm.
from one of our HAM project because of the non-utilization of the working capital limit.
Okay.
That is why slightly it is reduced. Accordingly, the debtor amount has also increased to that extent.
Okay.
If we taking the disbursement, certainly that cash and bank balance is increased, should increase.
Sure. Sir, just on this, you gave creditor number. Would you be able to kind of repeat that number again, please?
It is INR 629 crore with the 80 days creditor days.
Eight.
INR 629 crore, yeah. Creditor days payable with the payables.
Payables. Okay.
INR 629 crore.
All right, sir. Sure. Thank you. All the very best for future.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amrita Farmahan, Ambit Private. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Unmute.
Hello. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is regarding what you mentioned about the change in the qualification criteria for the NHAI awards. When is the applicability of these changes in the criteria? As in, is it going to impact or is it going to benefit in the Q4 or will it be from the Q1 of FY 2023 onwards?
It has been explained.
This will be the real effect of this reintroduction of EMD, bid security and also the rationalization of qualification will have this positive impact from the Q1 of next financial year.
What or how is the awarding activity in Q4 right now? As in January and February been.
In January and February, the awarding activity was a bit subdued because the elections are going in the five states and some other regions which I had mentioned earlier. What we see is that the awarding activity definitely will be picked up during March before the end of the current financial year.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is on line of Kalpit Narvekar from Allianz Global Investors. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Thanks for taking my question and congratulations for a decent quarter. My first question was, in terms of the INR 15-20 crore of top line that you did in this quarter, do you think there was some loss in terms of execution because of monsoons or because of UP elections? Say, some sides had some rallies or something for you. Is there any? Do you think the execution could have been higher in this quarter because of that? Also, do you think that fourth quarter will have some impact on execution due to the elections, particularly in the UP, the projects in UP?
No, no. See, the elections in Uttar Pradesh will not have any significant impact on their execution because I would say no impact at all. In Q3, there was a slight, you can say, when compared to Q2, reduction of INR a few crores. Because in Q2, what has happened, some major projects we achieved the final COD, including Purvanchal Expressway and all these things. Before achieving the final COD, there was some spurt in the activities and to achieve these final CODs, the execution has been expedited and that's why we were able to achieve higher income in Q2 and when compared to Q3. Otherwise, for INR a few crores kind of a difference, there is no specific reason for these things.
We don't foresee any problem with the elections even in Q4 also.
Yes, sir. My second question is again related to the same thing. In terms of your exposure to UP state, what would be the order book exposure to, say, UPEDA, on the road side? Also on this water side, 50% is funded by the state, right? Do you see any sort of receivables impact on these projects? Do you see any impact on getting payments from these agencies given that elections are happening? Firstly, how much exposure? And secondly, is there any risk in terms of getting payments on these projects, right? From UP state.
First thing, this Jal Jeevan Mission, we have a 50% from. Also we don't foresee any funding problem for the UPEDA, whatever the small amounts are left out. As of now, the exposure kind of a thing, UPEDA, I don't think that the UPEDA is launching any new project as of now, as on date. We'll see, once, in case any new opportunities comes up. Otherwise, we don't see any funding problem in UP.
Great, sir. That's very helpful. Thank you so much and good luck.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harish Kannan from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. My question is on the bid you said you have received three offers for your HAM assets. Last time I remember you had said there were five HAM assets and one BOT asset with total equity investment of about INR 6.7 billion.
Which you were expecting bids. Is the amount same, now the INR 670 crore?
Yeah. Yes, the amount is same.
Okay.
Five HAM which we executed the agreement.
This Aligarh-Ghaziabad is not included in this, right?
Yeah, that is not included. That's not included.
That is over and above this. If we go for monetization and if these things go through, so we are expecting at least more, somewhere around INR 1,000 crores of inflows to come in over the next year, FY 2023.
Yes.
Okay. Great, sir. My second question is on mobilization advance received from JJM orders. What interest rate have you got these mobilization advance at?
In mobilization advance.
No. Jal Jeevan Mission phase II, there is no interest on the mobilization advance.
It's interest free, mobilization advance.
Yeah. It's 10% of the approved DPR cost, interest free.
Okay. On the question also, you said that this total villages 2,476 is what we have got in the earlier the orders which you have got earlier. In the order book you have only included INR 2,476 crore or you have revised it to that 1.3 or 1.4 after. Why is this INR 12,000 crore?
As of now, we are still maintaining that 2,476 only in the order book. Also the new order also-
We correct it in the March.
We revised in the March.
End of March.
Yeah. Once this all DPRs approved, we'll revise this order book numbers before end of the March in the Q4 quarter.
Total INR 4,800 crore is what, including the JJM orders you have. You are reporting it, which has an upside of INR 2,200 crore once the orders get approved. 7,000 crore number comes from there, right?
Around 7.
Maybe slightly, maybe 5% ±.
Lastly, sir, you said that INR 1,500 crore revenue will come from the old orders of 2,476 villages. You said the new set of orders will start contributing from second half of next financial year. That itself should add another INR 700-INR 800 crore. Isn't it right to expect that next year we should have about INR 2,200-INR 2,300 crore of contribution from JJM orders?
As of now we are estimating around INR 1,500, including the new orders what we received. Once this DPRs are prepared for the new orders and then these DPRs get approved and all, so all timelines and all. We'll be able to tell you what the figure will be maybe going forward during the first or second quarter of next year. As of now we are maintaining it as INR 1,500, the total order book.
Just the last thing, sir, on the political risk. Now there's election going on. Do you perceive any risk from that to our execution if there's any change of government or change in guard? Do you think these programs will continue? Because now water is almost INR 7,000 crore of the order book, which is almost half of the order book. Do you think any risk there? Because NHAI, I understand will continue, but more on the water side, do you think the state government, if there is a change, can it impact the execution?
No, it will not impact, we think.
Okay. Sure, sir. Thank you, sir.
Percent is given by the central government in this generation.
Thank you very much. Now I hand the conference over to Mr. Mohit Kumar for closing comments.
Thank you everyone for joining in. We would like to thank the management for giving us the opportunity. I will hand over the call to management for closing remarks. Over to you, sir.
Thank you everyone for your participation in our earnings call. We have uploaded the presentation to our company's website. In case of further queries, you may get in touch with the Strategic Growth Advisors, our investor relations advisors, or feel free to get in touch with us. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. On behalf of DAM Capital Advisors Ltd, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.
Thanks.