Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the PNC Infratech Limited Q4 FY22 Results Conference Call hosted by Axis Capital Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Faizan. Good afternoon. On behalf of Axis Capital, I welcome everyone to the PNC Infratech Limited Q4 FY22 Earnings Conference Call. From the management side, we have with us Mr. Yogesh Kumar Jain, Managing Director, Mr. Bhupinder Sawhney, Chief Financial Officer, and Mr. D.K. Maheshwari, Vice President, Finance. We also have investor relations team of SGA in the call. To begin with, we will have opening remarks from the management, followed by question and answer session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good afternoon, everyone, and a very warm welcome to all of you present on the call to discuss Q4 of financial year 2022. Today, along with me, I have Mr. TR Rao, Director, Dr. Bhupinder Sawhney, CFO, Mr. D.K. Maheshwari, VP, Finance, and Strategic Growth Advisors, our Investor Relations Advisors. First, I will share my thoughts on a few sectoral highlights, which will be followed by financial and operational highlights of the company. Pace of projects awarding activity in the country significantly picked up during March 2022. During March 2022, MoRTH, NHAI and NHIDCL combinedly awarded a little over 5,100 kilometers of new highway projects located across the country.
Total length of highway and expressway projects awarded during financial year 2022 stood at over 12,700 kilometers, which is approximately 22% increase over financial year 2021. Though awarding activity in NHAI remained subdued till February 2022. Picked up the pace in March 2022. NHAI awarded 6,300 kilometers aggregate length of new highway and expressway projects in financial year 2022, as against 4,818 kilometers projects awarded in financial year 2021.
While there has been a surge in awards, awarding activity, development and construction activities were affected due to relentless challenges faced in execution by development and construction companies. In the beginning of financial year 2022, both supply chains and execution disrupted by more severe second wave of COVID-19. The year also witnessed an active and prolonged monsoon across the country. The challenges faced by industry during the year, including shortage of labor, sharp increase in prices of raw materials, including steel, cement, petroleum and other products.
The above challenges not only slowed down the progress of the construction, but also impacted the margins of the companies without any expectation. Pace of highways construction fell to 10,457 kilometers in financial year 2022, as against 13,327 kilometers constructed in financial year 2021. In case of toll projects, collection through FASTag grew sharply by about 67% on year-on-year basis to reach over INR 38,000 crore in financial year 2022. On national highways, FASTag penetration is now at 96.5% with 964 toll plazas live on FASTag, which is very encouraging scenario.
Now coming to the key updates and highlights of the company. Our company received robust order inflow during Q4 of financial year 2022. Company was declared as L1 bidder in seven HAM projects in March 2022 and has received LOA for all the seven projects with an aggregate bid project cost of INR 8,446 crores. In addition to Q4 order inflow, company also received a user fee collection mandate of Eastern Peripheral Expressway for one year from NHAI for a contract value of INR 369 crores.
In January 2022, company joint venture received LOI for design, construction, commissioning and operation and maintenance of three rural drinking water supply projects in district of Faliga, Badaun and Barabanki, amounting INR 2,337 crore. Company share in JV is 90%. On execution front, company completed four HAM projects and six EPC projects during financial year 2022 and received PCOD and CODs for the same.
The completed HAM projects include Haridwar-Dehradun Four-laning Package Two, Jhansi-Khajuraho Four-laning Package One and Two, Chitradurga-Davanagere Six Lane. The completed EPC projects include Varanasi-Gorakhpur, Purvanchal Expressway Package Five and Six, Nagina-Kashipur, Nagpur-Mumbai Expressway Package Four, and widening and strengthening of Lucknow-Kanpur National Highway in UP. Both Purvanchal Expressway package is completed ahead of the scheduled completion date.
In March 2022, company received INR 82.68 crore bonus for Purvanchal Expressway for package five towards 132 days early completion. In April 2022, company received INR 37.02 crore bonus for Purvanchal Expressway package six towards 97 days early completion. Given the substantial order book of water project, while company wants to consolidate its position in the water sector, company's focus area will remain the highway and expressway space.
However, company will pursue guarded diversification in the project development business to continue the growth momentum without assuming the concentration risk. At present, the company has a total of 25 projects in PPP format, comprising BOT toll, BOT NTP, OMT, and HAM assets. Out of these 25 projects, we have 18 projects on HAM with a total bid project cost of INR 24,590 crores. Out of 18 HAM projects, we have achieved the COD and PCOD of five projects, six are under construction, and seven projects recently awarded. In terms of equity investment, the total requirement for all the 18 projects, including recently awarded seven HAM projects, is approximately INR 2,390 crores, out of which we have already invested INR 915 crore till March 2022.
The balance equity of INR 1,475 crore will be invested over the next two, three years, for which internal accruals that would be generated over the next two, three years should be sufficient. Now moving on to our order book. As mentioned earlier, the company received decent order inflow in financial year 2022, total amounting rupees 11,152 crore. Our unexecuted order book on March 31, 2022 was INR 14,653 crore, while including all HAM projects for which we have been declared as L1, our order book would be INR over 21,000 crore. That gives robust revenue visibility for the company over next two, three years. Out of the total order book, the road highway project contribute around 65%, and water and irrigation contribute about 35%. Now, update on Ghaziabad-Aligarh project divestment.
Company concluded the divestment process of Ghaziabad-Aligarh project on May 26 2022, and the asset handed over to Cube Highways. Company received INR 274.85 crore from the sale, while total transaction closed at an enterprise value of INR 1,370 crore, that includes senior debt to the lender. In Q3 of financial 2022 financials, company already provided for an impairment of INR 39.39 crore, and since the deal is closed now, company further provided for an impairment of INR 90.33 crore during Q4 of financial 2022 in standalone financials, and INR 127.91 crore in the consolidated financials. It may be noted that no more provision is required to be provided for by the company in this regard.
I would present the standalone quarterly results of financial year 2022 and annual performance of financial year 2022. The results for the quarter and full year ended are not objectively comparable with the corresponding periods of last year, as during Q4 of financial year 2022, the company received an early completion bonus of INR 82.68 crore and has also provided an impairment of INR 90.33 crore towards sale of Ghaziabad-Aligarh project, corresponding to an impairment of INR 129.72 crore in financial year 2022. Revenue of Q4 of financial year 2022 is INR 1,835 crore, which is higher by 17% as compared to INR 1,644 crore in Q4 of financial year 2021.
EBITDA for Q4 of financial year 2022 is INR 225 crore, and EBITDA margin is 11.7%. Profit for Q4 of financial 2022 is rupees 135 crore as compared to rupees 129 crore in Q4 of financial year 2021, with a growth of 6% on year-over-year basis. Revenue of financial year 2022 is INR 6,305 crore, which is higher by 28% as compared to INR 4,925 crore of financial year 2021. EBITDA for financial 2022 is INR 787 crore, which is higher by 16% as compared to INR 677 crore in financial 2021. The EBITDA margin for financial 2022 is 12.5%.
Profit for financial year 2022 is INR 445 crore as compared to INR 362 crore in financial year 2021, a growth of 23% on year-over-year basis. On a consol basis, the impairment on account of divestment of Ghaziabad-Aligarh project is INR 127.9 crore in Q4 of financial year 2022 and INR 167.3 crore for financial year 2022. Consolidated revenue of Q4 of financial year 2022 is INR 2,226 crore as compared to INR 1,864 crore in Q4 of financial year 2021, registering a growth of 19%. Consolidated EBITDA for Q4 of financial year 2022 is INR 480 crore, which is higher by 14% as compared to INR 420 crore for Q4 of the corresponding quarter last year.
The EBITDA margin for Q4 financial year 2022 is 22%. Consolidated CapEx for Q4 of financial year 2022 is INR 247 crore as compared to INR 150 crore in Q4 financial year 2021, with a growth of 67%. Consolidated revenue of financial year 2022 is INR 7,208 crore as compared to INR 5,788 crore in financial year 2021, registering a growth of 25%. Consolidated EBITDA for financial year 2022 is INR 1,534 crore, which higher by 8% as compared to INR 1,422 crore for the corresponding period last year. The EBITDA margin for financial year 2022 is 21.3%.
Consolidated EBITDA for financial year 2022 is INR 580 crore as compared to INR 497 crore in financial year 2021, with a growth of 17%. Our net worth on standalone basis of INR 3,340 crore as on March 31st 2022, whereas total standalone debt is INR 216 crore, which is only equipment finance debt. This translates to net debt to equity of 0.06 times. As on March 31st 2022 , we did not have any working capital loan. The total cash and bank balance as on March 31st 2022 was INR 407 crore. We have a net cash of INR 191 crore as on March 31st 2022 .
On consolidated basis, our net worth is INR 3,628 crore, whereas total debt is INR 4,779 crores as on March 31st 2022 . This translates to net debt to equity of 1.32 times. The total cash and bank balance, including current investment, is INR 1,046 crore. With this, we now open the floor for question answer. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. We will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Reminder to the participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one at this time. First question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital Advisors . Please go ahead.
Hi. Good afternoon, sir, and congratulations on a very, very good quarter. My first question is how do you see FY23 in terms of revenues and EBITDA margin? Can you please explain the softness in the EBITDA margin in the current quarter?
Regarding EBITDA margin, it should be 13%-13.5%.
In FY 2023?
Yeah, for FY 2023.
What revenues, sir, revenue guidance?
It should be a growth of around 15%.
Okay. Sir, any color on the last year EBITDA margin, especially last quarter, was it affected by the high input inflation? How much was the impact?
As regards the margin, it has a marginal impact, but however, it is now recovering because steel price is also reduced. It is marginal impact because otherwise also we are having an escalation clause in all the projects, in the HAM project as well in the EPC projects also.
Understood, sir. My second question is, when do you expect your appointed date for all these seven new HAM project which you have won? What is the status of land acquisition?
Actually as regards the land status of five projects, 80% award is completed, means we have already achieved the 3G and FC in the process. Regarding the two projects, these are the 3G are less than 80%.
When do you expect the appointed dates for all the new projects, sir?
Pardon?
Seven.
Pardon?
When do you expect the appointed date for all the?
We are expecting between November and December. From October to December.
Understood, sir. Thank you and all the best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital Market. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. A couple of questions. First, when we say 15% revenue growth in FY 2023, so last time we said, 15 out of INR 100 crore revenue from UP projects. So that remains intact, or is there any change?
That remains intact.
Okay. How much are we factoring revenue from these seven HAM projects, where the appointed date, as you said, would be by third quarter, October, December?
We are not expecting much, but in the growth of 15% we have not considered the revenue majorly in these seven projects. We can consider around INR 200 crore-INR 300 crore.
Okay.
Yes.
INR 200-300 crore revenue expected from these seven HAM projects.
Seven projects in this financial year.
Okay. Got it. Sir, first, the breakup of equity investment and the monetization. You already mentioned that INR 2,390-odd crore equity is required and INR 1,475 crore is to be invested in two to three years. In FY 2023, how much and FY 2024, how much?
Out of the outstanding of INR 1,475 crore, we are expecting around INR 410 crore we have to include in FY 2023. Around INR 450 crore-INR 500 crore FY 2024, and INR 350 crore-INR 400 crore FY 2025.
Okay. Okay, got it. In terms of the monetization, where we were expecting last time, we said that by end of March we will have a clear idea in terms of five HAM and one annuity where we were expecting a monetization. We have three or so proposals. Any update on that?
Actually, we are only discussing with two buyers. Valuation is not below our expectation because of certain reasons. Rate of interest is also not stabilized at this point of time. We will take the decision in the FY 2023. We will take the call.
Do we think that by end of FY 2023 we get the cash from this monetization?
We are expecting.
The five and one annuity that remains the same, or is there any inclusion of more projects in that?
No.
Sir, I need a couple of data points, particularly the order book for the remaining projects which are not there in the presentation. I will name the projects, and if you can tell me the outstanding order book. Nagina-Kashipur, I think it is over, so it would be a zero, as on March.
Almost zero, yes.
Okay. Bhojpur-Buxar and Koilwar-Bhojpur.
Bhojpur-Buxar is INR 61 crore and Koilwar-Bhojpur is INR 50 crore.
INR 50 crore. Okay. The Chitradurga-Davanagere is over. Jhansi both the packages are over. Chakeri-Allahabad?
Chakeri-Allahabad. 362. INR 360 crore.
INR 360 crore. Okay. Purvanchal is also over. Mumbai-Nagpur as on March, package four.
It was completed in March. It was negligible. Around INR 25-INR 30 crore was outstanding on March.
Okay. The Delhi-Vadodara Package 29 and Package 31.
29 was 410, and Vadodara package 31, 510.
510. The irrigation project in UP, AP?
INR 940 crore. It is INR 980. INR 940.
INR 940. INR 940 or INR 980, sir?
940. 940 as on date because we have billed in the month of April and May around INR 40-45 crore.
Okay. Because in December it was INR 960 crore. Has there any increase in scope of work or?
Some POS was there.
As on March it was INR 980 crore.
Yeah.
Okay. Remaining is water projects. The first, which was INR 246 crore and other was INR 904 crore as on December. What's the value against that?
Actually, as last time our TR Rao had told that the value of the original value has been increased of the project. It was originally INR 2,300 crore which has increased to INR 4,700 crore. The total outstanding in the water project as on March 31 is INR 6,900 crore.
Sir, if you can help me with the individual breakup because we got the three projects. One was originally INR 246 crore, second was INR 904 crore, and the third six water projects were INR 2,351 crore. Against that what-
That we will give you in the offline individually.
Lastly, sir, in terms of the early completion bonuses, two we know, Nagpur-Mumbai we were expecting some bonus around INR 50-odd crore and Aligarh-Moradabad INR 13 crore that have we booked or, and apart from that, is there any other early completion bonus likely to be there in Q1 and Q2 ?
In the Q1 and Q2 of FY 2023, we don't expect any early completion bonus. In case of Aligarh-Moradabad, that bonus is due, but then there's some internal processes involved at NHAI, so it will take some more time before we release the bonus.
Okay. Nothing on the Nagpur-Mumbai Expressway? No early completion bonus.
Yes, sir.
Okay. Lastly, on the CapEx and the debt front, so, what's the CapEx for FY 2023 and debt, how do we see by end of this year? I hope the working capital days, whatever is there as on FY 22, will remain the same. If there is any change in that, please let us know.
In the CapEx, we are expecting around INR 100 crore-INR 120 crore in FY 2023. Working capital days around 95 days, sir.
Okay. The standalone debt would be by end of FY 2023 would be how much?
Roughly around INR 200 crore.
Okay. In terms of the inflow, how much more are we expecting in FY 2023 now?
In the range of INR 8,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore, sir.
This is also in the HAM or any other sectors now we are looking at?
This is combined, but primarily from the highway tech sector.
Okay. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good afternoon, sir. First thing, in the JJM, how much revenue we have done in Q4 and FY 22?
See, in JJM, FY 2022 put together, we have done a billing of INR 108 crores. We have done a work done of around INR 200 crores. I'm telling about the total in the four quarters put together.
Right. Okay. Sir, of this, how much is paid and how much is outstanding?
See, out of INR 200 crores work done, we booked INR 108 crores, and we received payment of INR 108 crores. 100% whatever amount we book, we received the payment.
Got it, sir.
Apart from that, we received around INR 156 crores mobilization advance under phase two, which is 10% of the DPR approved. INR 156 crore mobilization we received.
Interest free.
Interest free.
Right. Sir, just to reconfirm, the JJ models have a price escalation mechanism. Is that correct? Both the phase one and the phase two.
Yeah. Phase one and phase two, both are having.
No, no. Price escalation to the extent of only HDPE pipes. That is based on the regime of the oil companies, the base price and all there. Other price escalation is not there.
Sure. The pipe is a major component, right, of the.
Yeah. Pipe is the major component.
Right. Also, sir, coming back to the point on the monetization of the HAM projects. Sir, although, you know, we are looking at probably a better valuation than what we are getting today, but, you know, one point is that there are so many HAM projects in the market today and, you know, wouldn't it be more prudent to maybe take a little bit of a valuation, you know, take a little bit of lower valuation, but better to free up the cash flow? That's just a question that I had, whether, you know, we have any such thought process or we wait for the better valuation. We are also thinking in the same line.
We are also thinking in the same line. Sure.
Last question, sir. This quarter, we would have also had some revenue and cost attributed to the toll collection contract for the eastern periphery. If you can just give me what is the revenue which is included here and what is the cost, the payment to NHAI which is included in the Q4 numbers.
Actually, the total revenue was included in the INR 89 crore in the total revenue in this quarter.
Right. Okay. For the payment to NHAI, we can-
The revenue was slightly lower because of the COVID-19 third wave of the COVID-19. It is improving nowadays. It is now around INR 120 crore per day is coming. During Q4 , it was slightly lower than expectation.
That also may be one of the reasons why Q4 margin may be impacted, right? Because that INR 89 crores, you, that would have not covered the whole cost to NHAI.
Exactly, true.
Right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vibhor Singhal from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for taking my question. Sir, two questions from my side. First question, sir. In this quarter, the overall working capital and the debtor amount seems to have basically gone up a bit, quarterly-wise also and annual-wise also. Any specific payment delays that we are seeing from any specific project or is it related to payment from the HAM projects? If you could just give some idea on that.
This is not the reason, because specific date of March 31, it is comparatively higher because we are not taking the development of the HAM EPC project. Otherwise, it is in the range of the 50 days. Within March 2022, since the company was having the cash and bank balance, not taking the disbursement of projects from the bank lenders.
Got it, sir. Basically we are not taking disbursement on the HAM projects and
Right.
Until then we are completing. Later on when we reverse,
Right. Amount-wise, it seems the higher side, but data date-wise it is only 74 days.
Right. That will be
Pardon?
Sure, sir. Got it, sir. Secondly, sir, we are guiding to a 15% growth in revenue next year, which will probably take us to more than INR 7,000 crores of revenue. Or sir,
Right. Right.
From the road sector.
From the road sector.
From the road sector. Those INR 7,500 crores or INR 8,000 crores order book, in which we'll be able to do INR 5,000-INR 6,000 crores of order book. Is that understanding right, sir?
Right. Actually, the projects which we are executing in the road sector are expected to be completed, majority of them during the FY 23.
Right, sir. In fact, that is what I was about to ask. That means most of these projects will get completed in FY 23 year.
Yes, yes.
Got it. Sir, this year when we are looking at INR 8,000-10,000 crore of order inflow, will that be majorly road projects only? Or, given now the UP elections are behind, the government has been reelected and they might again start giving out Jal Jeevan Mission orders. Are we expecting some inflow from Jal Jeevan Mission also this year?
We are expecting some inflow, but essentially from the road sector to the extent of 80%-90%, it will be around 10% from the Jal Jeevan Mission.
Got it. Just one last question, if I may. Jal Jeevan Mission may have primarily taken orders in UP only. From what we understand, a lot of orders are about to come up in neighboring states of UP like MP, some in Rajasthan and other states also. Will we be interested in taking projects in those states also, or we will restrict ourselves to UP only for JJM?
We are evaluating Those opportunities.
those opportunities.
Okay.
Actually, our priority is to consolidate our position in the whatever projects we got in the UP.
Got it, sir. Sure, sir. Great. Thank you so much for answering my questions, and wish you all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bharanidhar Vijayakumar from Spark Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. What component of the water projects is made up of these pipes? You said it's majority of the project cost. Just want to find out the percentage.
Percentage-wise we will share you separately. Otherwise, just the pipes constitute the majority of the cost.
Constitutes.
Yeah. Followed by the overhead tank and other works. Boring.
Okay, okay. Not water pumps, et cetera?
See, normally we consider it including the water pump, the submersible pump and other fixtures. There is some element of solar power also in there. Majority is the pipes.
Okay. Next is on the competition. We had, you know, won the seven HAM projects in the month of March when competition was very high. Could you help us understand, you know, according to you, would these projects, you know, continue to have fair amount of margins that we usually do at around 13%? Or the number of bidders were high and you feel it might impact the margins on these projects?
See, out of seven HAM projects what we secured in the fourth quarter of FY 22, six projects are located in UP, which are lying in our stronghold area. We have our in-house mining as well as crushing and operations, and which is able to provide the raw material for these projects. We are also pursuing what best we can do in the value engineering side. We don't expect any impact on the margin. The 13% EBITDA, we should be able to maintain for all these seven projects.
Okay. Now coming to this INR 274 crores money received for the Ghaziabad-Aligarh deal. Where is it in the cash flows? I'm not able to see it in the consol cash flows.
We have received on May 26th.
Yeah, yeah.
Earlier we have received on May 26th. We said we have received.
Yeah. It'll be reflected in the coming quarter.
It'll be reflected in Q1 of FY 23.
Right. We had a lot of warrants loans given to this project. How would these reduce? How would this INR 274 crore be used?
Warrants have already been converted into unsubordinated in 2020, March 20, sir. It was reflecting as unbilled loans in the books of the EMC and the associated company. The total unbilled loan was INR 287 crore, which include the amount of the warrant. It was issued in the month, year 2016.
Okay, got it. Coming to this, you mentioned two projects of the new seven projects have some land acquisition delays or it's not up to 80%. We don't have possession for 80% of the land. Am I right? Which are these two projects?
Out of seven, five projects we have that the 3G award has happened more than 80%. Two projects, one is Mathura-Bareilly, one is Moradabad-Sonori. These two projects, the award is less than 80%.
Right. When you mean 3G, it is possession, right? Land possession.
Yeah. 3G means possession.
Yeah. These other two projects, when are we likely to get?
See, in comparison to the remaining five projects, there will be a delay of one month to two months. That's all. What we expect after all the seven projects, 80% land would be made available before declaration of appointed dates.
Sure, sir. Fair enough. Thanks and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for taking the question and congratulations on the set of numbers. My first question is on the revenue side for FY 23. As you said in previous answers.
Sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Rushi, the audio is not clear from your line. Please use the handset mode.
Yeah. Can you hear me now? Sorry.
Yes.
You said that revenue from road projects you can expect INR 6,000 crore in FY 23. In last call, we said that we can expect revenue from water projects at around INR 1,500 crore in FY 23. But with now revision in cost for the water project were almost 40%. What is the revenue which we can expect from the water projects and also revenue from the AP irrigation projects? If we add all this together, our revenue guidance can be upwards of 20%-25%. Can you please throw some light on this?
See, the water project, we still maintain INR 1,500 crore from the Delhi ones. The reality is that they have approved projects worth INR 1,560 crore. 702 DPR they approved. These projects they approved during the period of September and December, which have to be completed within 18 months. We expect a revenue of INR 1,500 only. We are not uploading. Irrigation, we are expecting a revenue of around INR 200 crore in the current financial year, FY 23. Both put together will become around INR 1,700 crore. Plus, in the road sector, as we mentioned, it will be between,
Around 66,000 Around maybe INR 5,500 crores-INR 6,000 crores-
Yeah.
from the road sector. Overall, we are expecting around 7,200 kind of a thing, 300. It will be around 15% of the growth.
sir, just harping on it, like in the water segment, you said the DPR was cleared last year in September, October. Probably, the DPRs will also come through this year, so your execution will again start. Then what is the revenue you're expecting in FY 24 and FY25? What is the completion timeline for these water projects and the irrigation project? What can be the revenue you are getting FY24, FY25, if you want to extrapolate?
See, with how fast they approve the DPR and based on the funds that are available with the state government, they keep on approving the DPR. As of now, we can't say, but definitely in FY 24 the revenue guidance will be more than FY 23. It will be around INR 2,000 crores what we expect. It is very rudimentary figure.
Uh.
It's our only being approved.
Right. We can expect the project to complete in 2025, right?
Which one?
The water projects in UP, JJM projects. These projects should get over in 2025. The three projects, old projects and the one new project in January.
They give 18 months time after approval of DPR.
Okay.
Whenever they will approve DPR plus 18 months.
Hopefully it will be completed by FY 25.
The irrigation project with AP which is going slow, and you gave a guidance of INR 200 crore only this year. I understand because of monsoon, the irrigation projects, kind of those projects get delayed. What is the timeline for this to get complete?
We have time up to 2024. We executed agreement in 2021, so we have got time up to 2024.
Okay. March, FY 24 you are saying. Okay.
Yes, FY 24.
Sorry, most of the older road projects like Delhi-Vadodara packages and the HAM projects of Unnao and others like Meerut and all that should get over this year, right, sir?
See Delhi-Vadodara, Lucknow-Agra and Bihar two projects and the [Inaudible], all these projects we expect to complete during the FY 23.
Okay. Which project will complete in 2024 then?
HAM projects which are now going on, it's currently free, so they may slightly go into 2024.
So -
Like, either no. [Inaudible] got a 30 months time.
Meerut
Meerut, Najibabad.
Sure. Okay. Sir, can you give me the toll collection number for your projects, sir? Like Q4 and FY 22 full year.
Yes. The M.P. highway is Q4 14.3, and
Mm-hmm
Full year is 51.3.
Okay.
Kanpur project, Kanpur Highway is INR 114.3, and full year is INR 442 crore.
Okay.
Kanpur highway is INR 20.2 crore, and full year is INR 100 crore.
Mm-hmm.
Narela is 10.46, and full year is 43.2.
Mm-hmm.
Bareilly, INR 13 crore-
Oh
Q4 and full year is 50.4%.
50.4. Okay.
RBJN Highway Jhansi 32.16, and full year 128.64.
What will be the Ghaziabad-Aligarh in Q4?
Q4 is 56.8. ODR is
ODR
225 point-
225?
Two.
Okay, 225.
Two.
Okay, sir. That's it from my side, and all the best, sir, for the new financial year. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Hey, good afternoon, sir. Thanks for the opportunity once again. My first question, clarification on bonus income. You said that, are you expecting the bonus income from the package five of the Purvanchal Expressway? And secondly, on the Aligarh-Moradabad project, how many days ahead of the, you know, we completed the project?
In case of Purvanchal Expressway package five, we completed 132 days ahead of schedule.
For Package five.
For Package five. The rate of bonus is 0.04% of the contract cost for each day. We got INR 82 crores from the Purvanchal Expressway Package five. In case of Purvanchal Expressway Package six, we completed 97 days ahead of schedule at the rate of 0.04%. We got a bonus of INR 37 crores from the Purvanchal Expressway Package six in the month of April, which will be reflected in Q1 of FY 23.
Understood, sir. Aligarh-Moradabad, sir?
Aligarh-Moradabad, see, there is a bonus due of around INR 17 crores because there is a lot of approvals and other processes involved. That is still at NHAI end. We expect to realize that bonus in FY 23.
Understood, sir. Secondly on the sec, we won a project from NHAI for collecting toll at fee plazas. Are you willing to do more such project or it was a one-off?
We evaluate, see, based on the project opportunities. We'll see whether we bid it. This kind of project will be only one project that comes from NHAI. This is a year, on a year-to-year basis.
No, no, presently we are not bidding for one year. We are trying for OMT and TOT. It is just, only one package is there.
No, it's. We can say it's a one-off kind of.
Yeah, yeah, one-off kind of.
Are you looking also for TOT, sir, while in charge? Or they will not take the toll risk?
No, just we are calculating, evaluating, and last two TOT, but not bidding.
Understood, sir. Are you looking at some package of the Ganga Expressway from the private companies?
No, no. Not at all.
Understood, sir. Thank you and all the best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parvez Qazi from Edelweiss. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for taking my question. Sir, I wanted to get some more details on the JJM project you see. Overall, I mean, how many DPR have been prepared till date? How many DPR preparation and approval do you expect in FY23?
See, in the JJM phase two, we have a total DPR of around 1,600. Out of 1,600, 700 DPR they approved, for a cost of INR 1,560 crores. We expect another 300 DPRs to be approved in the current financial year. That would roughly translate into around INR 500 crores further work. The remaining DPR, though we have prepared, it is in the process of approval and then finally sanctioned by the SLSSC and signing of concession agreement draft. It's a long-term process.
For phase one, everything has been approved, right?
Which one? For?
For phase, JJM phase 1.
Phase one is the only one project that DPR got approved. Now we achieved more than 35% progress in that one. We expect to complete that project in FY 23.
Sure. That's it from my side and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Congratulations on a good financial year and quarter. My first question is on UP aid budget. Any major projects in
Sir, can you come to Mr. Parikshit Kandpal? The audio is not clear from your line. Please use the handset mode.
Yeah. Is there any major CapEx announcement on the road or any other infrastructure projects in just 29/10 there?
Mr., your voice is not clear. Pardon us, please. Can you come again?
Sir, UP state budget.
No, no. As of now, nothing. See, Ganga Expressway is the last one. For other projects, even they are approaching Government of India. No further projects by UP Government.
Okay. The second question is on the water project. Sir, after INR 6,900 crore water project, JJM budgets. In the INR 6,900 crore, how much is only INR 1,500 approval worth of INR 1,500 available only?
Yes, yes. Out of INR 6,900 crores, only 1,560 water projects approved by the State Level Scheme Sanctioning Committee.
You said all these INR 7,000 crore will be completed by FY25.
We expect.
Just a last few questions on EBITDA margin recalculation presentation, 7.71%. Sir, you have this bonus is a part of in the results which were disclosed. Bonus is 82% of bonus part of revenue and impairment is the part of other expenses, right?
Yes, I agree. Yes.
Peripheral roads loss included. How much is the loss on peripheral roads in EBITDA?
Around INR 5 crores in FY 20-
Around INR 4.4-4.5 crores, sir, in Q4 , right? Because of that margin is a bit lower.
Right. Right.
Okay. Just lastly, sir, HAM project monetization, you spoke earlier, spoken about. Now the interest rates are going up. Still do you think the investors are still not giving a re-thought that valuations are going up, so valuation they should give to you should be little better because your body language is still like valuations are not as per expectation and you'll still wait and watch. What are the major variables in the model which is basically not making this deal happen? What are the major concerns? If you can just touch upon GST related issues, have that been sorted out by NHAI, then direct taxation related issues, have that been sorted out? Interest is obviously one part, so that is market dependent.
Other two things, if you can throw some light on how the investors are looking at those factors on direct taxation and GST related issues.
Actually, we are discussing on the buyers and, the main concern is the valuation, what we are expecting. We have to take the decision and we will take the call in FY 23.
Can public investors be sourced in? It's like, are we thinking because now the portfolio has become quite sizable, 18,000-19,000 crore plus of equity already and we are nearing INR 1,000 crore of investment. Are we looking at giving a re-thought that maybe public investor will be the right way of creating better valuation, better value at lower cost of capital?
Yes. Instead of the private, we can go with the public, invest also.
Okay. Any fundraising plans, sir? Because there is a huge outlay for equity. Are we looking at any fundraising plans for the company at a Standalone level?
Presently, we do not require for equity. There is no planning of the fundraising in next one or two years at least.
Okay. Just to conclude, sir, I mean despite, so earlier we used to get projects on a premium on HAM, we used to get margins of 13 to 13.5. Now last year, most of the projects have gone under discount. Commodity prices are higher. But still we are guiding that we'll be able to maintain 13%-13.5% margins because we have very local expertise and local supply chain within UP which can help us, get some productivity and value engineering benefits, right?
Yes. Yes, sir.
Okay. Thank you, sir. Those were my questions. I'm done. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Viraj Gawade from Aurum Capital. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for taking my question. Sir, can you shed some light on the INR 90.23 crore impairment of Ghaziabad-Aligarh Expressway and also INR 120.72 crore for the same one? Will we be seeing any impairment going forward?
No, no impairment in future.
Sir, why this impairment in Ghaziabad-Aligarh Expressway terminal?
Pardon?
Sir, why the impairment, the recent impairments of INR 90.23 crore, INR 120 crore, and INR 1.72 crore, why this impairment recently?
See, actually, the valuation, what we are expecting from the, say, plus, what are the compensation we are expecting from NHAI is more than what we, actually received. See, many of the projects of NHAI and a similar kind of BOT road, NHAI compensated higher amounts, but on account of delay in handing over of the land and other further, omissions on part of NHAI. In the case of Ghaziabad, though we are expecting more than INR 500 crore compensation from NHAI, finally the Ghaziabad-Aligarh project could able to receive only INR 150 crore. There were some, reduction in the compensation, so which resulted into impairment.
Okay, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.
Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Sir, what is the mobilization advance and the retention money as on March?
We'll share with you separately.
Sir, which is.
Retention money was INR 198 crore.
198.
INR 620 crore.
Sorry, retention money was INR 198 crore.
Right.
Mobilization was?
6:20.
620. What was the HAM debtors out of the total INR 1,273-odd crore debtors?
What is a HAM debt?
HAM debtors, receivable. HAM receivable. Total debtors [Foreign language] INR 1,273 crore, as on March. [Foreign language] HAM [Foreign language] debtors, because last quarter it was INR 942 crore odd.
It is INR 793 crore, sir.
INR 793 crores. Sir, Ghaziabad-Aligarh ka just a clarification needed. Though you said no impairment required, but when you announcement has came, it said that we invested INR 442 crore and received INR 275 crores, so that is the loss or impairment of INR 167 crores. The impairment that we have taken is lesser than that. Why is it so?
In Q3 you already provided INR 138 crore impairment.
Yeah, sir. INR 39 plus this INR 90 adds to INR 121, INR 127 crores.
Remaining it has gone in the PNCPL holding because the equity was infused by PNCPL directly as well as from PNCPL holding. 37 crore has gone in the PNCPL holding. In case you see the Consol account, the impact is 167 crore, including 39 crore in Q3 of FY 22.
Okay. Got it. The toll revenue project that we have, where we have booked INR 89 crore revenue and 4.5 crore loss in this quarter. This is in the standalone revenue. Every quarter, so this quarter, how do we see the revenue and are we looking for any EBITDA loss in this quarter?
We don't expect. What has happened from April onward, the toll revenues improved considerably. We don't expect any revenue loss during FY23 for the remaining nine months.
Okay. At the EBITDA level, if it comes as per your expectation, what would be the EBITDA margin? Revenue, let's say, whatever, INR 89 was in fourth quarter. In this quarter, Q1 FY 23, if it comes as per your expectation, what would be the EBITDA margin that we look at?
We have not specifically worked out. We'll come back to you separately on a one-to-one.
Okay. Thank you.
Mm-hmm. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Uttam Kumar Srimal from Axis Securities. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for taking my question. Sir, your guidance for CapEx of INR 100-125 crores in FY 23. What is the CapEx guidance for FY 24, sir?
Should also end in the range of INR 75 crore-INR 80 crore, but not more than that.
Okay. Sir, what is the current composition of our EPC and HAM projects, currently, in terms of percentage?
Around 65% is the EPC total and 35% is the water. If you will see the breakup of the HAM versus EPC, major part is the HAM project.
What would be in terms of percentage, sir, overall?
It will be around 80/20.
80% is HAM and 20% is EPC.
Yeah, yeah. Including the new projects.
Including new projects. Okay. Sir, now coming to operating cash flow. Last year our operating cash flow has reduced quite substantially. Do you think that we will be able to improve substantially in FY 23?
We don't think so much.
Because it has reduced to INR 88 crores, now in FY 21 plus to INR 73 crores. This is my-
It's a different gate actually, sir. In case you see the debtors, in case if you take the disbursement from the HAM project, so it should be much, much higher. Specifically we are not taking the debt disbursement from the HAM project.
Okay, sir. That's all, from my side, and I'll leave this to you. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prem from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question, sir. Most of my questions are already answered, just a couple of questions. First was mostly clarifications only. When I look at our consolidated financials for the quarter, contract revenue that you show in your segment numbers, it's around INR 1,800 crore. When I compare it with our standalone numbers, it's the difference is quite stark. I mean, when I compare with, let's say, the earlier quarters and the difference on an average used to be around INR 20 crore-INR 30 crore between standalone and the contract revenues that you report in segments. In this quarter it's more than INR 100 crore.
Would you be able to explain and why would this difference be there in this quarter, I mean, this large difference be there in this quarter? Same way, I mean, toll and annuity revenue that you report in your segment has gone up from INR 250 crores last quarter to INR 427 crores in this quarter.
This is only because of the elimination in the Consol account, because 13, 19 and COS will be approved, we have taken, so elimination in the Consol, that is the only reason between Standalone and Consol.
Sir, how about the toll, annuity income from 230 to 427? Almost INR 200 crore of change on a sequential basis.
We have received the annuity in the new HAM project, no sir. Because, around five projects we have received the COD and PCOD in this year.
Mm-hmm.
We have also received the annuity in the new HAM projects in this year.
Okay. Sure. Just one more question. On this Ghaziabad-Aligarh, the deal that with [Inaudible], I think everything is already settled. The money that has come to you, I mean, INR 225 crore, this is adjusted for any claims that have been received by the SPV or the claims will be over and above this? I mean, the INR 150-odd crore amount that you spoke about that we've been able to manage in terms of claims from NHAI. Has that money already come and the valuation is adjusted for the INR 150-odd crore or 150 is over and above this enterprise value effect?
It includes the INR 150 crore compensation that received by the SPV.
Oh, okay.
that includes that in the entire settlement.
Oh, okay. Sure. Thank you. That's it from my end. Thanks, [Inaudible]. All the very best for future.
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jiten Rushi for closing comments. Please.
Thanks, Faizan. We thank the participants for joining the earnings call. Thanks a lot. Over to you, sir, for any closing remarks.
Thank you everyone for your participation in our earnings call. We have uploaded the presentation to our company website. In case of further queries, you may get in touch with the Strategic Growth Advisors, our investor relations advisors, or feel free to get in touch with us. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Axis Capital Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.