Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Q3 FY 2023 Earnings Conference Call of PNC Infratech Limited, hosted by Axis Capital Limited. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements do not guarantee the future performance of the company, and it may involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone telephone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I hand over the conference to Mr. Jiteen Rushe from Axis Capital Limited. Thank you. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Rishi. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of Axis Capital, I'm pleased to welcome you all to the PNC Infratech Limited Q3 FY 2023 earnings conference call. We have with us the management team of PNC Infratech, represented by Mr. Yogesh Kumar Jain, Managing Director, Mr. Bhupinder Sawhney, Chief Financial Officer, and Mr. D.K. Maheshwari, Vice President, Finance. We also have with us the investor relations team of Strategic Growth Advisors. We will begin with the opening remarks from the management, followed by interactive question and answer session. Thank you and over to you, sir.
Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of PNC Infratech Limited, I extend a warm welcome to everyone for joining us today on this call. I have with me Mr. T.R. Rao, Director, Infra, Mr. Bhupinder Sawhney, CFO, Mr. D.K. Maheshwari, VP, Finance, and our investor relations advisor. We have uploaded the financial results and investor presentation on list of exchange, as well as company website for your reference. Initially, I would like to mention key updates in the industry, including recently announced Union Budget for the financial year 2023, 2024, followed by key operational developments of the company and highlights of financial performance during quarter three and nine months of financial year 2023. Both which we will be happy to respond your questions. I would like to take a moment to talk about the key updates in the industry.
As per the MoRTH data till the end of December 2022, 7,263 km length of highway were awarded, a rise of around 18% over the same period in previous year. As far as construction of highway is concerned, 5,774 km length of highway constructed till December 2022 has amazed the target of 12,000 km for the entire year, financial year 2023. Progress of highway execution hampered in many regions of the country due to prolonged monsoon that extended till the third week of October 2022. It is expected that the pace of construction will pick up during quarter four of financial year 2023. In the Union Budget, government continued its focus on infrastructure development across the core sectors.
Government announced a hike in capital expenditure for overall spending on infrastructure development by 33% to INR 10 lakh crore for financial year 2024, which will be around 3.3% of the GDP. Government allocated on outset of INR 2.7 lakh crore for highway sector for financial year 2024, a yearly growth of 34% over the revised allocation of INR 2.17 lakh crore in financial year 2023. Allocation to NHA increased to INR 1.62 lakh crores from last year revised allocation of INR 1.42 lakh crore, a hike of 14% year-on-year. Government allocated INR 97,278 crore to the Ministry of Jal Shakti, up nearly by 14%, 41% from last year allocation of INR 69,053 crore.
Allocation to Jal Jeevan Mission has also been increased nearly by 27% year- on- year to INR 69,654 crore. With the higher allocation of the above sectors, more business opportunities are expected in financial year 2024. Coming to key updates of the company. During the third quarter of financial year 2023, the company achieved financial closures by respective due dates for all seven HAM projects for which concession agreement signed during the first half of current financial year. Out of the seven HAM projects, appointed dates received for five projects starting from 10th November 2022 till 1st February 2023. Appointed dates for remaining two HAM projects, Mathura Package 1B and Sonauli-Gorakhpur are expected before the end of current financial year.
During the quarter, company received INR 3.6 crore towards an arbitration award published in its favor from Military Engineer Services, Government of India, in construction context, namely Resurfacing of Runways and Allied Works at AFS Panagarh, West Bengal. We are happy to share that CARE Ratings has upgraded the company's long-term bank facilities to CARE AA+. With a stable outlook from CARE AA and reaffirmed the company's short-term bank facility to CARE A1+. Credit rating of two subsidiaries has been upgraded. Khajuraho Highway Private Limited has been upgraded to CARE AA with a stable outlook. PNC Bundelkhand Highways Private Limited has been upgraded to AA+ from A+. Company continuing pursuit to extension the balance sheet coupled with prudent financial management helps rating upgrade constantly. I will share operational and financial performance of the company.
At present, the company has a total of 23 fund based off on various PPP formats, including BOT-T oll, BOT Annuity and HAM. Out of these 23 projects, we have 18 HAM projects with a total bid project cost of INR 34,590 crore. We achieved COD and pre-COD of five HAM projects. 13 projects are under construction. In terms of equity investment, total requirement for all these 18 HAM projects is approximate INR 2,440 crore. Out of this, we have already infused INR 1,176 crore till December 2022, and the balance will be infused over the next two years. The internal accruals that would be generated over the next two, three years should be sufficient to fund the total equity requirement. Moving on to our order book.
Our unexecuted order book on 31st December 2022 is over INR 17,800 crores. That includes EPC value of all the seven HAM, new HAM projects. Out of total order book of over INR 17,800 crores, the road and highway sector is around 65%, and water and canal project is around 35%. In rural drinking water projects under JJM, the company has booked the revenue of INR 615 crore till December 2022, which includes INR 108 crores revenue booked during the previous financial year. During the nine months of financial year 2023, total INR 507 crore revenue was booked from phase I and phase II of water supply project. We expect a total revenue of around INR 900 crores in financial year 2023 from the drinking water sector project.
As the government signs cover agreement of approved scheme progress billing for execution, we expect balance executable work would be around INR 3,000 crore at the end of financial year 2023. Cover agreement for all remaining schemes are expected to be signed during the next financial year. I will present a standalone and consolidated results for the third quarter of financial year 2023 and nine month ended December 31st, 2022. standalone revenue for third quarter of financial year 2023 is INR 1,627 crore, which is higher by 7% year-over-year. EBITDA for the third quarter is INR 208 crore, which is higher by 26% year-over-year. Profit for the third quarter of financial year 2023 is INR 129 crore with a growth of 59% on year-over-year basis.
Consolid revenue of quarter three financial year 2023 is INR 1,803 crore as compared to INR 1,722 crore in quarter three of financial year 2022, with a growth of 5%. Consolid EBITDA for the third quarter of financial year 2023 is INR 345 crore, which is higher by 6% as compared to INR 325 crore for the third quarter of the corresponding quarter of last year. Consolid PAT for quarter three financial year 2023 is INR 140 crore as compared to INR 83 crore in quarter three financial year 2022, with a growth of 68%. The standalone revenue for nine months of financial year 2023 is INR 4,946 crore, which is higher by 13% as compared to rupee 4,388 crore in nine months of financial year 2022.
EBITDA for nine months of financial year 2023 is INR 673 crore, which is higher by 20% as compared to INR 563 crore for nine months of financial year 2022. PAT for nine months is INR 427 crore as compared to INR 310 crore in nine months of financial year 2022, with a growth of 38% on year-to-year basis. Consolid revenue for nine months of financial year 2023 is INR 5,651 crore as compared to INR 4,982 crore in nine months of financial year 2022, with a growth of 13%. Consolid EBITDA for nine months of financial year 2023 is INR 1,189 crore, which is higher by 13% as compared to INR 1,054 crore for the corresponding period of last year.
Consolidated PAT for nine months of financial year 2023 is INR 512 crore as compared to INR 333 crore in nine months of financial 2022, with a growth of 54%. As on 31st December 2022, our net working cycle is 82 days, and our debtor days has improved to 67 days as on 31st December 2022, from 74 days as on 31st March 2022. Our net worth on a standalone basis is INR 3,752 crores as on 31st December 2022. Whereas total standalone debt is INR 150 crore, of which is equipment financed debt. As on 31st December 2022, we do not have any working capital loan. The total cash and bank balance as on 31st December 2022 is INR 365 crore. We have a net cash of INR 215 crore.
This translates to net debt to equity of 0.04 times. On a consolidated basis, our net worth is INR 4,125 crores, whereas total debt is INR 5,780 crores as on 31st December 2022. The total cash and bank balance, including current investments, is INR 1,100 crore. This translates to net debt to equity of 1.4 times. With this, we now open the floor for question and answer.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and then two. Participants are requested to use only handsets while asking a question. We have our first question from the line of Shravan Shah of Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir. sir, just to recheck the guidance in terms of the revenue EBITDA margin, and then I will ask on the order input front. For this year and the next year, revenue guidance and EBITDA margin.
This year in FY 2023, we are expecting the EBITDA margin around 13.3% to 13.5%.
Okay. Revenue guidance for this year?
10% as compared to FY 2022 growth. Hello?
For FY 2024?
In the range of 10%-15% as compared to FY 2023.
The similar 13.5% margin is one can see for FY 2024 also?
Yes. More or less, yes.
Yeah. Now major in terms of the road players. Though there is a significant tender pipeline is there. Just wanted to recheck in terms of the order inflow. We were looking at INR 8,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore for this year and next year INR 10,000 crore. How much we are planning to bid in before March? And how much water are we expecting?
Sir, there are more than 100 projects are NHAI already , NHAI and Ministry of a value more than, INR 110 lakhs gross. These bids are expected to be received before 31st March. There is a very robust pipeline is there. We have selected certain projects. Majority of these projects we have selected for bidding. We'll be bidding these projects and still we are hopeful of getting INR 8,000-10,000 of new order book before end of the current financial year. Hello? Hello?
Yes, we are connected. It seems, Shravan is either disconnected or his line is muted. I'll take the next question. The next question is from the line of Nikhil Abhyankar of DAM Capital. Please go ahead. Nikhil, your line has been unmuted.
Yeah. You can hear me?
Yes, we can hear you.
Yeah. Thanks a lot, sir, and congrats on a good set of numbers. Now that we have received the appointment dates for five projects and only remaining for two projects, what is the executable order book right now?
INR 17,800.
Sorry, sir.
As on 31st December. 17,800.
Sir, what will be the value of these projects?
What will be the value of these seven main projects?
Somewhere around INR 1 crore-INR 15,000 crores?
No, no. Actually, these are 65% of this INR 17,800 would be the highways and 35% would be from water irrigation.
Seven projects.
These seven projects will be around INR 8,000 crore.
Yes. Seven projects is INR 8,700 crore.
Okay. what will be the executable, value of the order book right now?
The entire order book is executable.
I was asking this question in regard of only 10%-15% revenue growth for next year. Can we expect to beat that guidance going forward?
See, we can't speculate as of now, how things will unfold, but we are expecting 15% growth. Always we aspire for the beating that, but as of now, we don't want to say anything more than 15%.
Okay. Sir, any update on the monetization front?
Already we informed in the last call that highest priority is given to the monetization of funding project of the company. In the first lot, total 12 projects selected for monetization, including 11 HAM assets and one BOT toll project. 12 selected projects would have a total debt around INR 6,800 crore and total equity of around INR 1,550 crores, Sir. Strategic advisor retained for running the monetization process. Due diligence of three HAM projects is underway by a potential investor. For remaining nine projects, NDA we have already signed with seven potential investors who showed interest in the portfolio and due diligence are under process. We will keep you updated on the progress as we have in forward.
Should we expect the closure in this financial year?
As regard out of HAM, three projects they have already visited due diligence on the site. We may execute the agreements before end of financial. By 2024, it should be finalized.
Okay. Sure, sir. On that note, I'll join back in a bit.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Ashish Shah of Centrum Broking Limited. Ashish, your line has been unmuted.
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity, Sir. First question is on the new seven HAM assets. When I look at the financially closed cost, the BPC, that is higher than the BPC that we had originally bid for last year. Generally, financially closed cost is a little lower than the BPC. Can you help us with the escalated BPC? I mean, because obviously there would have been some escalation also. I'm just trying to think, how different is the EPC from the escalated BPC.
You know, our EPC inclusive of.
Our EPC is inclusive of GST, right, 18%. Where BPC is actually not inclusive of the GST. They are only sure. That is a major impact of 18%.
Sorry. You are saying the BPC is inclusive of the GST which is applicable on the EPC project value.
Right. Right. Right.
The BPC did not include that.
Yeah. Because as per MCA current policy, all the-
Right.
What we need to quote BPC is exclusive of the applicable GST.
Correct.
Earlier in the FY 20 21 HAM assets this thing was not there. Is it?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Earlier, in between actually there were four, five morals before 2017 completely change in law. Then for a certain period they included the, GST, then certain period not, again they included. This has happened. But currently all BPCs are exclusive of GST component.
Sure.
The other thing, continuing with the same as that, for the TPC which you have given, let's say for all the assets put together, you have something like INR 9,400 crore of TPC. What would be the equity proportion out of this, out of this INR 9,400 crore TPC, what is the equity proportion?
Actually all the seven projects we have finalized the financial closure based on 82/18. 82% debt and 18% equity.
18%.
Right. as regard TPC method, we have to reduce the milestone payment 40% and remaining 60%, we have 82%, 18% in all the seven projects.
Okay. The proportion of equity is around 18%.
Right.
Of the grant portion. Yes, yes. Got it. X of the grant portion. The other thing is on the JJM projects, there, you know... We did say that we'll have an opening backlog of INR 3,000 crore, which will be DPR approved for next financial year. Now, what is the revenue that we expect for next year? Earlier, we had said around INR 2,500 crore of revenue we can expect from the JJM projects in FY 2024. What would be your guidance now?
We are expecting around INR 2,000 crore revenue for next year.
Okay. sir why this reduction and are we not expecting any incremental projects to also get approved in FY 2024?
I think the incremental projects are getting approved. What is happening, these projects initially of the low value things are need to be executed initially and like solar instrumentation as well as the overhead tank with a new technology and all, they are back ended. Incremental thing is there, but these INR 2,000 crore, the experience what we got in current financial year, we are expecting around INR 2,000 crore execution. We definitely try to execute more amount, but as of now, our guidance is INR 2,000 crore next year.
Right. Last question again on this is that by when do we expect the entire JJM scope that we have to, you know, be approved in terms of DPR and available for execution?
See, by end of FY 2025, we expect more than 95% of around 90% of the total JJM scope by the end of FY 2025. Only some residual payments will be left for FY 202026.
You're saying whatever JJM order book you have, by FY 25, all the revenue will be they will entirely be executed by and large by 2025?
Yeah, about 90%, yes.
About 90%. Right. I'll come back in the queue. Thank you.
Thank you, Ashish.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital.
Hi, sir. Good evening, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. First question is just clarification. Do we have enough orders on Jal Jeevan Mission side, in the sense other opportunities? Are there enough tenders available in the market now? Anything in the UP?
Now total, there are five phases. Out of five, four phases already bid out. There is one phase is still left. That we are looking forward to having some opportunities there in the phase, at that phase of the project. The bids are not floated yet. We'll come to know what will be the bid cost and what kind of opportunity maybe in next two to three weeks.
Just on the UP, sir. Anything apart from the UP which you are trying to, you know, bid?
As of now, we are not looking at. Going forward, if some opportunities comes up in other states, so we'll look into those opportunities whether to pursue or not.
On the NHAI opportunity side, sir, do we have, what kind of pipeline which is available in the state of Uttar Pradesh? Any rough ballpark numbers?
As of now, we have not calculated. As we said, there are more than INR 1 lakh crore worth of projects are available, to be bid out, before 31st March. This around 100 projects of INR 110,000 crore. We have not exclusively calculated about Uttar Pradesh. There is substantial amount of projects are there in the state of Uttar Pradesh.
Sir, lastly, sir, on the margin side, are we seeing, you know, reduction in prices, commodity prices, which should help the margin going forward?
There is no such increase in the raw. No doubt this this quarter it was 12.8%, but that is only because of the areas of the friendly increment we have given during this quarter about INR 10 crore, or otherwise it is 13.4% EBITDA margin.
Okay. Can I expect the margins to improve 30, 40 odd basis points going forward, especially for Q4 and as we enter FY 2024?
No, it should be around that 13.5. We should able to maintain around that figure only.
Including JJM execution, right?
Including JJM.
Understood, sir. Thank you and all the best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Noel Vaz, Union Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Yes. I just wanted to just clarify one thing. In our order book it is mentioned that we have water projects of about INR 10,200 crores. I presume by saying it 95% completion will be.
Speak loudly. We are not hearing properly, sir.
Sorry for that. Hello. Is it better now?
Yeah. Compared to him better.
Yes. We, in the order book it is mentioned we have about INR 7,400 crores from water and canal projects. I presume that when you say 95% completion by FY 2025, we are talking about this particular portion of the order book, right?
No, no, no. We didn't say that, we have INR 10,200 crores. canal we have a, allocated to Agra only.
Sir, if you see my presentation, there water canal is INR 10,400 crores, sir.
Okay.
That's the number.
Yeah. Yes. Okay. That is something. Second thing is that when we mentioned it, this is a clarification. When you say INR 8,000-INR 10,000 of new order flows by the end of FY 2023, this is a net increase. Am I right? This is not just inflows per se.
Yeah, it's a net increase only. It's INR 8,000-10,000 actual order book we are talking about.
Okay, thank you. Okay. That is, this is, that is all from me. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Ash Shah from Elara Capital. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. First question is, can you just give the revenue breakup for this quarter, between road, irrigation, and JJM projects?
Yes. You want the project-wise or this?
Industry-wise.
Road, it was INR 367 crore.
Okay.
This canal project is INR 31 crore, and remaining is the road sector.
Okay. Also, can you give the breakup of between the canal project and water JJM project on the order book front as of 24th December?
INR 7,200 INR 7,200, breakup. The canal is INR 993 crore, sir, and water project is INR 6,420.
6,420, and canal is 993.
Right.
Okay. Follow-up on this question. Canal project, I mean, last we spoke was that from January to June only we can work, otherwise we cannot work for the rest of the year. When can we complete this INR 993 crores worth of project by?
See, we have got time up to 2025, because as you see, the water, they are releasing water more than what we expected. We may get some kind of extension for the project. We should be able to complete before the extended time frames.
How much?
Yeah.
How much are we expecting for calendar year 2023, like for this period January to June, revenue?
For calendar year 2023, we'll be doing around INR 150 crore-INR 200 crore, INR 200 crore worth of work during the calendar year 2023.
Just last question. On the monetization front, you said that we are planning for 12 projects. Three are under execution. Is only one party buying all those 12 assets or we are selling it to different parties?
Different investor interested.
There are seven investors?
Till now we have signed the NDA with the seven investors. They have shown their intent.
Yes. See, it might be, one investor may take all the projects because however seven investors have shown for the entire portfolio together.
Okay. We are open to sell all the assets to one investor as well.
Yes. Yes.
Okay. Yeah. That's all from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Sandeep Dixit of Ārjav Partners. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Just wanted to clarification. I'm not sure I heard the numbers correctly. Did you say that margins will be in the range of 21%-21.5% going forward? 21.
No, no, no. See, EBITDA margin we said around a range of 13.5%.
30.
Pardon?
I'm sorry. I forgot. 13.5% EBITDA margin.
13.5. Yes.
I mean, if I look at the numbers, like historically pre-COVID, you were, your EBITDA margins were in the range of the high twenties. Has something structurally changed?
No, no. The EBITDA margins are on a consolidated basis. What I'm talking about a standalone basis EBITDA margin.
Okay. Can you please help me with the consolidated numbers, sir? I'm a bit confused with that.
Consolidated numbers
What will be the guidance for the consolidated margins?
Consolidated margin in the nine months, it is 21.05%.
The same it will be around same thing what going forward.
As it's currently, is it?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
The other question I still have was, you indicated the 10% YoY revenue growth. Is that for standalone as well or is it on consolidated?
It is for the standalone.
Would you have a guidance of consolidated?
What happened is some of the projects like OMP projects got completed during the current secondary year. We need to work out and we'll come up to you.
Sure. Thank you. Those are all my questions, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.
Thank you, sir. Sir, couple of data points. For fourth quarter, how much equity are we planning to put and for FY 2024 and 2025?
Actually in fourth quarter, we are expecting INR 135 crore equity to be infused. FY 2024 around INR 450 crore-INR 500 crore. FY 2024.
FY 2025?
Around INR 350-400 crore.
INR 300 crore-400 crore. Okay. Got it. Couple of, sir, data points on the balance sheet front. Inventory, trade receivable, trade payable, retention money, unbilled revenue, mobilization advance and hand debtors. Sir, data points Presentation sir.
Mobilization advance is INR 388 crore on September 22, 2022.
Okay.
Retention is INR 134 crore.
Okay. What next? Unbilled revenue, inventory, trade receivable and trade payable.
Trade receivables, I think, it is mentioned in the balance sheet also, no? It is INR 1,197 crore, trade receivables.
INR 1,197. Okay. Out of that, HAM debtor is?
HAM debtor is INR 606 crore.
INR 606 crore. Inventory is?
Inventory total INR 745. INR 745 crore inventory total.
Okay. Trade payable? Sir, trade payable, creditors.
INR 410 crore.
INR 410 crore. Unbilled revenue?
INR 115 crore, which is a part of the inventory.
INR 115 crore. Okay. Now the project-wise order books, sir. Starting with the smaller one, the Bhojpur books, sir, and Koilwar Bhojpur.
Bhojpur it, only INR 7 crore outstanding.
Okay. Bhojpur or Koilwar?
Koilwar khatam ho gaya.
Okay, Koilwar khatam ho gaya. Bhojpur INR 7 crore. Chakeri Allahabad?
INR 139 crore.
139. Challakere- Hariyur?
Challakere. 419.
419. Okay. Lucknow Ring Road Package 1?
Lucknow Ring Road INR 88 crore.
Nahi jo last quarter mein INR 405 crore tha wahi.
Ha wahi.
Ha, ha.
INR 240 crore.
Sorry, sir?
INR 240 crore, sir.
INR 240 crore. Jagdishpur- Faizabad?
INR 310 crore.
310. Aligarh- Kanpur Package 5?
INR 400.
400. Unnao- Lalganj?
620.
620. Meerut- Nazibabad?
430.
430. Delhi- Vadodara Package 29?
INR 150.
150. Package 31?
220.
220. Sir, this Gaju Village- Devinagar Bypass, what's the EPC value in order book?
Mathura.
Nai, Mathura, sir, you have already given INR 788. I'm talking Gaju Village, Devinagar Bypass Package-1 C.
1C, 60. 650. That is also Mathura. 650.
INR 650 crore. Okay. Sir, you mentioned the irrigation projects INR 993 crore, last quarter you mentioned INR 896 crore. There is a significant INR 100 crore kind of increase in scope of work?
Yeah, yeah. There is a 100 increase to INR 1,128 crore from INR 1,000 crore.
Okay, INR 1,120 crore. Okay. Okay, got it. Lastly, in terms of the CapEx, how much we have done and what we are looking for this year, next year?
Since December we are taking INR 37 crore.
Okay.
We are expecting in the range of 100, up to INR 100 crore or there by 2023.
Okay. INR 37 crore we have done, nine months. Okay, we are close to INR 66 crore we are expecting in this quarter.
Yeah.
The next year also the similar INR 100 crore plus range?
It should be under INR 20 crore.
Okay, got it. In terms of the fund-based loan, fund-based limit, how much we have utilized? I think the limit should be the same INR 1,000 and INR 5,000 crore. In terms of the utilized, how much?
INR 1,000 crore we have not utilized. There is a fund-based limit, we've not utilized it. The INR 5,000 crore, INR 2,700 something we have utilized. INR 2,585 crore.
INR 2,585. Okay, INR 2,585. Okay. It has reduced. And in terms of the debt level, how do we see by end of March?
March, that should be... You want to explain or no?
Ha, standalone, sir. standalone. Only standalone.
It should be around INR 200 crore. That will be for the term loan only.
Okay. Okay. got it. just to clarify, this quarter, this 3.65 crore arbitration booking revenue is entirely part of the EBITDA. There is no expense against that. also, in terms of the bonus, last time we mentioned that we were expecting some 50 odd crore bonus for Ali, Aligarh- Moradabad in the this quarter, fourth quarter.
Have we received or are likely to be received in this quarter?
Revenue, it has include only INR 40 lakh, and some part, in the interest income of
Okay. Aligarh Moradabad, INR 15 crore bonus, are we getting in this fourth quarter?
We are expecting.
Okay. The amount would be the INR 15 crore or.
Yes, yes.
Apart from that, any other bonus? Previously we were looking at Mumbai- Nagpur, where clarity was not there, and the Delhi- Vadodara package 29, 31. Are we expecting an broad range? When, when are we expecting to receive?
See, in case of Nagpur- Mumbai, still we, it is status quo. There's no clarity, the policy doesn't have to be. In BAV 29, see, we are expecting some kind of a bonus if we complete it before 17th of April. Similarly, BAV 31, if you complete it before 17th of May, there also we'll get some kind of bonus. Going forward, we'll be able to share.
Okay. Okay. Got it. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jiteen Rushe from Axis Capital Limited.
Thank you for taking my question, sir. Just one thing I want to understand, that you said in the, initially, to somebody else that, PPC doesn't include GST, but PPC includes GST. When we get grant from NHAI, that will be 40% net of GST or it will be 40% total of the PPC?
40% of PPC. That is 40% of PPC.
Basically that doesn't include GST.
Yes, yes. With the GST.
Sir, when you get on PPC.
That is 40% of PPC plus GST.
Okay, plus GST. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Basically when you are investing, you are getting debt including GST and you are investing equity also including GST. That is what I understand. Correct, sir?
Yes, yes.
Got it.
Yes.
Sir, in this quarter you said that there is increase in employee cost, because of the INR 10 crore additional payment. Was my understanding correct or am I missing something, sir?
Actually, we are giving the annual implement which we have declared in the month of October and November, and we have given the area from January to this October in this quarter. That is why you will see that my EBITDA margin is slightly little bit down as compared to last quarter.
What is that? That total amount is INR 10 crore, right, sir?
Otherwise my EBITDA margin in the range of 13.35%.
4%. Got it. Got it. Okay. That is something which we do it every third quarter. That is a phenomena, right?
Yes.
That is what the phenomena is.
Yes.
Got it. Sir, can you give the toll collection number, sir?
Yes. Toll collection in Kanpur Highway INR 20.5.
Uh.
In Bareilly- Almora is 14.9 . Raibareli is on to 32.16 .
Uh.
MP Highway 9.27.
Sir, which asset, out of these we are looking to sell in the BOT toll side, the one asset which you said?
Only one project of Bareilly-Almora BOT project. Otherwise MP Highway and Kanpur Highway is going to be completed in 2025.
Got you. Raebareli is a annuity project. That also Raebareli we are not looking-
MP Highway and Kanpur Highway.
Yeah. Sir, Raebareli we are not looking because it's an annuity project. That is why.
Project, yes.
Okay. Sir, you said there is an increase of INR 100 crore in the canal project. But sir, the e-execution has been muted so far. This will pick up probably this year. That is what you are trying to say because of the water which is being, you know, heavy water flow from the for the canal project as you said initially, right?
Sir, yeah. Actually we are effectively are able to do work for five months only in an year. this is even, we initially thought at least we'll be able to do eight months. effectively we are doing only five months. that is the issue. government also acknowledging the fact matter because they have to provide water to the farmers. farmers. This will have a socio-political ramifications. that is there.
Basically, sir, we have done almost INR 400, INR 430 crore revenue from water and irrigation in first nine months. With your opening remarks, you said INR 900 crore revenue FY 2023. Basically significant revenue in Q4 we are expecting, as you said correctly.
Yeah, yeah. See that INR 900 crores is from water sector, drinking water sector, out of which already INR 500 crores, INR 507 crores we have done. That is from drinking, rural drinking water sector. Remaining around INR 400 crores we'll be doing in the Q3.
Uh.
This is exclusive of canal.
Basically nine months you have done INR 507 crores in water. Now you'll be doing balance INR 400 crores in Q4.
Yeah. Nearly INR 400.
What is your canal revenue, sir, in nine months and expected in Q4?
In nine months canal revenue is INR 114 crore.
Okay. Q4 we can do something?
Yeah, yeah. Q4 we'll be doing around INR 20 crores in Q4. Because just now we started the work after receiving the water.
Okay, yeah. That's it, that's it from my side. Sir, one last question. Sorry. You said order inflow of INR 8,000-10,000 crore. You are saying some other projects also excluding roads. Anything excluding road we are expecting in this INR 8,000-10,000 crore inflow or this is purely roads, highways?
It's essentially highways and expressways only. In case the government bids out the water project under phase four, some revenue, some order book we are expecting from that. That depends upon the due date for the bids and other things. Otherwise, that will majorly...
What is the size of that phase 5? Hello. The size of phase 5, sir. What is the size of phase 5?
Phase 5 already awarded, now only phase 4 is pending.
What is the size?
The total under phase 4 is around INR 10,000 crore worth of projects are there.
This is the last leg from UP?
Yeah, this will be last leg of JJM in the state of Uttar Pradesh.
There are any plans to go in other states?
Yeah, we will go. We will go.
You will go.
We certainly will evaluate the opportunities.
Okay. That's it from my side. Thank you, and all the best, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vasudev from Nuvama Group.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity, sir. Most of my questions are answered. Just I wanted to know your thoughts on the competitive intensity in road space.
Progressing competition is high, as all you know. We have another INR 110 lakh crores worth of projects. What we expect, competition will be more than, because some of the players already got their cohorts and we expect that there is enough cake for everybody. We are expecting around INR 8,000 crores of new orders from this INR 1.1 lakh crore group which floated with NHAI in the last two years.
Sure, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vishal Periwal from IDBI Capital.
Yes, sir. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. First of all, I think, congratulations, sir, on maintaining the margins. I mean, regarding like, you know, how the peers are, I mean, they are coming out with the result. My question is more on the execution side, sir. I think initial commentary was JJM allocation has increased, ministry road allocation has increased. We are having an order book, why I think our guidance still remains in the range of 10% for this year, which again means like, you know, probably a muted growth in quarter four. Next year again 10%-16%. Is there any approval which are pending or any equity concerns?
I'm just trying to correlate with the macro and then how we are lagging, sir.
In the current financial year, FY 2023, though we expected more than 10% this year, very uncharacteristically, the monsoon has extended. Monsoon has extended even till the 3rd week of October in many of our northern sites. Some of our water sites like Dhej and Pilibhit inundated totally, and even our road works also affected badly. It's never expected because normally monsoon receives in the month of September, this year monsoon. In fact our Q3 we expected more revenue, we settled with 16 point something. That is the reason, in the current financial year we're talking about 10% growth over the previous financial year. Next year, 15% as of now-
15% you are guiding for.
15%. Going forward, we'll see the, how the approvals are forthcoming, for two projects still the appointed dates are to be declared. How this progress will pick up in this thing and how monsoon will behave in the next year. These are the factors. As of now we are pegging it at 15% growth over FY 2023.
Okay. Awesome. Second, this was more of a data point. What has been the inflow for us, in nine months, sir?
Order?
Order inflow for us in nine months this year.
Nine months, we couldn't get any new orders in the nine months. Compared to normally it is a trend in NHAI, so in the fourth quarter only the maximum number of projects are bid out in the fourth quarter. As I said, INR 110 lakh worth of projects are there for bidding in the fourth quarter.
now we are expecting at least INR 10,000 crores.
Yeah, yeah. We are expecting up to INR 10,000 crores in the current year.
Okay. Okay. Pardon me for my ignorance, sir. The last one is on, I think equity you mentioned, which you plan to infuse over the next two years. Can you give a breakup in 2024 and 2025?
2024 in the range of INR 450-500. In FY 2025, INR 350-400 crores.
Okay, sure. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. All the very best, sir.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Parvez Qazi of Nuvama Group.
Hi. Sir, just one question from my side. What was the toll collection in Kanpur-Ayodhya project and the Eastern Peripheral Expressway project this quarter?
Kanpur-Ayodhya already completed on 1st October, so there was no collection in this quarter.
Okay. Eastern Peripheral Expressway, I guess that went on till Nova November, right?
It has complete, closed from 10th of November, and till October and 10th November, it is around INR 49 crore.
Sure. One question to Yogeshji. I mean, do we expect that, let's say, prequalification norms for road projects will get changed anytime soon? Whatever has been going on for last two years, these things are going to continue now.
We are expecting from last three months. We will see what will happen. We can't say exactly when.
Sure. Thanks. That's it from my side. All the best in future.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Prem Khurana of Anand Rathi Share. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for taking my question, sir. Sir, I think, you've spoken a lot about the way it is you've been able to make progress with our UP drinking water supply orders in terms of execution. Could you please talk about, I mean, how has our experience been in terms of payment cycle? Because we've only executed a part of the order backlog now. Are we receiving our payments in time?
See, water, drinking water thing, payments are, work is reasonable. The only issue is that we need to bill for each scheme. If each Gram Panchayat, you have to raise a separate bill. The billing at a decentralized level is a very burdensome. If you are doing a work in a 1,000 Gram Panchayat, you have to write 1,000 bills every month. That is taking time consuming. Post that, there's certification and all it is taking time. Payments we are getting regularly. Only thing that the preparation, submission and certification is taking time.
When I look at our trade receivables for the quarter, right, I mean INR 1,197 odd crore and INR 600 odd is for high trade. Balance INR 600, how would this be split between, let's say our road EPC and the water EPC, canal as well as, I mean, the JJM put together?
Yeah, this includes everything, canal, water and other EPC projects.
The split between road and water, would you have that number readily available?
No, water is, only the billing which we have done in the last, in the month of December. It is around INR 114 crore approximately.
Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Which is not material. Sure. In terms of, so how many DPOs are we approved by now? How many more are we expecting to get approved in this quarter in Q4?
Around 1,200 schemes approved, out of, say 2,700, 1,200 schemes approved, for a value of around, INR 2,700 crore as of now. As of 31st December, and they are progressively approving. We expect all the schemes will be approved before, 30th June of this year.
Okay. The entire INR 7,000 odd crore that we have is everything will be approved.
Actually it's not INR 7,000, it will be around INR 600 because they are combining some schemes.
Okay.
To keep the overall cost and other, and cost per household within the norms fixed by Jal Jeevan Mission.
Right.
It will be around INR 600 crore-INR 500 crore. All schemes are expected to be approved before middle of this year, calendar year.
Okay. Sure. Sure. In terms of because when the roads have become big for us and we're gradually seeing even our water gain some size now. Generally it tends to take us some time to be able to kind of stabilize operation any new segment that we get into or possibly, I mean, to be able to find a new opportunity also takes some time. Have you started looking, I mean, in newer segments besides roads and water? Let's say railways or metros or anything of that sort?
See, we are looking at, see where we find some synergy. Definitely we are looking at projects. As of now firmly we can't say, see, but our focus will continue to remain on highways and railways.
Sure. Sure. That's all last from my side. I think, so on the monetization part, I think, earlier we were looking to monetize six hybrid annuities, one BOT toll and one BOT annuity. Seems there's a change. Right now we're looking at 11 HAM and one BOT toll. BOT annuity we're not planning to go ahead with the transaction. Would the I mean, the prospective buyers be the same, I mean, which were there earlier for these eight assets that we had or these are all new, seven new prospective buyers now? The idea is to try and understand, I mean, will it be as if, I mean, the process starts afresh or it is as if essentially, I mean, continues from the last quarter?
No, no. It is fresh because the combination of the portfolio is now different.
Okay.
11 HAM projects comprising five already completed and six is under construction and one BOT toll.
Mm-hmm.
This time we have not included BOT annuity project. The toll are there.
Okay.
So far firms have shown their interest, and we signed NDAs with them. Out of that a couple of players were there also.
Okay.
Majority of them are new.
Sure. When you say, I mean, out of these 11 HAM, two HAM plus one BOT toll is at advanced stage, would you be able to share how much of the equity between these three invested?
In all the 12 projects, equity around INR 1,500 crore.
Okay.
The debt is around INR 6,800 crore.
Sure. You said two HAM and then there is one BOT, unka separately, would the number be possible?
Yes. Three HAM project is around INR 1,700 crore debt.
Okay.
Equity INR 360 crore.
Okay, sure. Thank you. That's it from my side. All the very best for the future.
Thank you. We have a question from the line of Jiteen Rushe from Axis Capital.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the follow-up, sir. One last question on the that claims which you said INR 3.65 crores. If you said INR 40 lakhs is in revenue and balance is in interest, that doesn't fix into the numbers. Sir, can I just say either we can assume?
It is INR 2 crore is the amount, that is INR 2 crore is the claim amount and INR 1.66 crore is the interest. Total INR 3.66 crore we got it. INR 2 crore is the claim amount and INR 1.66 crore is the interest component. Total INR 3.66 crore.
Basically, sir, the interest reported in Q3 is INR 16 crores. In that, this is INR 1.66 is that. In revenue, we can assume INR 2 crores. Right, sir?
Actually, in this quarter, we have booked the revenue around only INR 40 lakhs. Earlier, already we have booked around INR 1.5 crore earlier period.
That was when, sir?
Sure. See, this project was completed, way back in 2016.
Oh, oh. Okay, okay. Okay.
They must pay the final bill and other due payments. These revenues were booked earlier. Only the additional revenue, incremental revenue of INR 40 lakhs we book and also the interest.
The interest. Okay. Basically INR 40 lakhs in revenue, INR 1.66 in interest, and INR 1.5 crores was already earlier booked in there.
Yes.
Okay, sir. That's it on my side. Thank you.
Operator, any further question?
No, there are no further questions at this time.
Okay. Sir, any closing remarks from your side?
Yes. Thank you everyone for your participation in our earning call. In case of further queries, you may get in touch with the Strategic Growth Advisor, our Investor Relations Advisor, or feel free to get in touch with us. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Axis Capital Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.