Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Q1 FY24 post-results earnings conference call of PNC Infratech, hosted by IDBI Capital. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vishal Periwal from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Periwal.
Yeah, thanks, sir, Nirav. Good afternoon, everyone. I welcome you all for the PNC Infratech Limited post-result earnings call with the management. From the management team of PNC, we have with us Yogesh Jainji, Managing Director, T.R. Raoji, Director Infra, and D.K. Maheshwariji, Vice President, Finance. As usual, we'll have an opening remarks from the management and followed by the live Q&A session. Thank you, sir. Over to you.
Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of PNC Infratech Limited, I extend a warm welcome to everyone for joining us today on this call. I have with me Mr. T. R. Rao, Director, Infra, Mr. D. K. Maheshwari, Vice President, Finance, Strategic Growth Advisors, our investor relations advisors. We have uploaded the financial results and investor presentation on the stock exchange, as well as company website for your reference. Initially, I would like to mention key update in the industry, followed by key operational developments of the company, and highlights of financial performance during quarter one of financial year 2024, post which we will be happy to answer your questions. According to industry reports, road construction as well as projects awarding activities slowed down during quarter one of financial year 2024.
As per industry reports, during quarter one of financial year 2024, a total of 611 km new projects only awarded, and total length, about 2,250 km road constructed. As per recent MoRTH announcement, road construction target for the year 2023-2024 has been revised from 12,500 to 14,000 km. Similarly, 12,000 km target set for award of new projects during the year 2023-2024. Considering the uncertain target set forth for financial year 2024 and bidding process has still not picked up till date, pace of bidding and awarding activity by the authorities are expected to be intensified during the second half of financial year 2024.
As part of National Highways Authority of India's monetization plan, NHAI floated bids under toll operator operate transfer model for TOT 13 and 14 bundles for an aggregate length of 300 km and operation period of 20 years each. NHAI is in the process of awarding project packages of 610 km long Varanasi-Kolkata Highway, with an estimated project cost of INR 35,000 crore. After completion of this highway, the current travel time between Varanasi and Kolkata is expected to be reduced by 50%. I am pleased to share with you that our company secured 3 packages out of 14 packages of this highway floated so far by NHAI on our HAM format. Transport Ministry proposed to deploy advanced technology, Global Navigation Satellite System, or GNSS, to completely do away with the barriers at toll plazas.
As GNSS system will enable gate, gateless plaza, vehicles will no longer have to halt at plaza. The technology consultant appointed by IHMCL for the mandate are already working on it. Now, coming to updates on the company. Our company signed concession agreement for the four recently secured HAM highway projects secured in financial year 2023, having an aggregate bid project cost of INR 4,083 crore. The above HAM mandates includes Package Two, Package Three, and Package Six of six-lane greenfield Varanasi-Ranchi-Kolkata Highway of NHAI, and Package Three of four-lane highway from Singur, Upah to Berhampore, Karimpur, Ichheri of NH 70-31 of MoRTH. It is near to Prayagraj. Company's strong financial prudence, constant credit rating upgrades, enable company to secure debt to competitive rates. Now, moving on to the operational and financial performance of the company.
The company is currently having 27 BOT toll, BOT, OMT, and HAM assets. Company's fund-based portfolio of 27 projects comprise 22 HAM projects, with an aggregate bid project cost of INR 28,673 crore. Out of 22 projects, company completed and achieved PCOD and COD for 7 projects, 11 projects are under construction, and 4 projects are under development. With regard to equity investment, cumulative requirement for the 22 HAM projects amount to be around INR 2,900 crore. As of June 2023, we have already infused INR 1,716 crore, and the remaining equity is to be infused over the course of next 2- 3 years. The internal accruals that would be generated over the next 2-3 years should be adequate to meet the above equity investment requirement. Now moving to our order book.
As of June 30, 2023, our unexecuted order book stands at INR 14,900 crore, which does not include EPC value of about INR 4,000 crore of the four new HAM projects it got recently. Accordingly, unexecuted order book value would be about INR 19,000 crore. Out of the above total unexecuted order book, highway and expressway contract contributes around 72%, and water projects contribute around 28%. The company has achieved notable progress in rural drinking water projects under the Jal Jeevan Mission, JJM, during the past two quarters. Till June 30, 2023, the company has booked a total revenue of INR 1,454 crore under JJM. The revenue booked during the quarter ending June 30th, 2023 in the water segment was INR 421 crore. Now, I would pre-present the results for the quarter ended June 30, 2023.
Before discussing financial performance, I would like to share that during quarter one of financial 2023, the company received an early completion bonus of INR 37.02 crore, which was included in the revenue. We have not taken the above into the consideration, make financial performance of quarter one of financial year 2023, objectively, comparably with Q1 of financial year 2024. Revenue of Q1 of financial year 2024 is INR 1,861 crore, which is higher by 8% as compared to INR 1,721 crore in Q1 of financial year 2023. The EBITDA for the Q1 is INR 245 crore, which is higher by 11% as compared to INR 221 crore in quarter one, financial year 2023.
The EBITDA margin for the first quarter of financial year 2024 is 13.2%. The profit for the Q1 of financial year 2024 is INR 157 crore, as compared to INR 130 crore in the first quarter of financial year 2023, a growth of 21% on year-to-year basis. The PAT margin for the first quarter of financial year 2024 is 8.4%. Consolidated revenue of quarter one of financial year 2024 is INR 2,092 crore, as compared to INR 2,016 crore in quarter one, financial year 2023, with a growth of 4%. The consolidated EBITDA for the Q1 of financial year 2024 is INR 436 crore. The EBITDA margin for quarter one of financial year 2024 is 20.9%.
The console PAT for Q1 2024 is INR 181 crore. The PAT margin for the first quarter of financial year 2024 is 8.6%. As on June 30, 2023, our networking cycle is 83 days as compared to 87 days as on March 31 , 2023. Our net worth on standalone basis is INR 4,098 crore as on June 30, 2023, whereas total standalone debt is INR 489 crore. The total cash and bank balance as on June 30, 2023, is INR 186 crore. We have a net debt of INR 303 crore. This translates to net debt to equity of 0.17x .
On console basis, our net worth is INR 4,476 crore, whereas total debt is INR 6,774 crore as on June 30, 2023. The total cash and bank balance include current investment, is INR 943 crore. This translates to net debt to equity of 1.46x . With this, we now open the floor for question answer.
Thank you very much. We now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the questions queue come in. First question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir. F irst is on the just, going back to the guidance, what we have talked last time, 15% revenue growth, 13-13.5% EBITDA margin. Order inflow INR 10,000-12,000 crore, out of that, 30% from non, non-road. All these numbers, stand remain same or any change?
As you know, the growth is around 10%-15%, which we have informed in the last, last quarter. The EBITDA margin, we will continue in the 13%-13.5%. Contractual award FY 2024 will be around INR 10,000 crore.
Okay. Total non-road will be?
What else?
Shravan, sorry. Your voice is breaking. Can you please come in a better reception area?
Yeah. Is it fine now?
No, it's still breaking.
Seeing out of that, how much are we looking at from non-road, order inflow?
We still maintain around 20%-30% from non-road sectors.
Around INR 80.
20% to 80% from the roads and highway sector.
Okay. Sir, in terms of the monetization, you have 1 BP.
Shravan, sorry to interrupt you, but your voice is breaking, very badly. I would request to rejoin with you again. Next question is from the line of Ashish, from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir, and congrats on a good performance. Sir, one thing to check, you know, on this non-highway, what is it that we are looking for this, which segments will look to get this, maybe about INR 2,000-3,000 crore of increase?
See, water will continue to be the, one of the sectors, which, we are looking at. Also we'll be looking at the projects like railway. As you know that we got one arbitrary project last year for INR 755 crore in Haryana. Similar kind of projects like rail, metro rail or whatever we think. That is one area we are looking at. Apart from the water sector, which we are already working, other state governments also coming out with the projects on the JJM. We are looking, looking at those opportunities as a part of our non-road sector.
Okay. Just, given that, you know, I mean, we were expecting a little front-ended ordering with what, you know, any part of the other governmental order, but we are already in mid-August, and we still do see anything concrete happening.
Sorry to interrupt you, but your voice is coming muffled. Can you please speak through the handset?
Yeah, give me a second. Yeah, is it better now?
Thank you.
Yeah, it is better now.
Yes, sir. Okay. Sir, what I was asking is that, given that there has been a delay in the ordering this year as well, is there any risk in terms of the target for the awards, or you think this INR 10,000 odd crore can be still managed?
It can still be managed, yes, because the government has fixed a target of 10,000 kilometers of highways to be awarded during the financial year FY 2024. Even though that's the awarding activity slowed down in Q1, and even till date, it is still too low. What we expect that this will pick it up, get up during the second half of the current financial year. We are, we are still hopeful of getting a INR 10,000 crore of new projects during the current financial year.
Even we have already submitted 9 bids, that amounts around INR 11,000 seven-
INR 11,000 crore of bids are under evaluation. We submitted for 4 HAM projects and 5 EPC projects, which are under evaluation.
Sure. Just the last thing from me.
Any, any issue in the business development as well as the targets.
Second half will be better.
Right, sir. Just the last thing, some specific projects, if you can update in terms of status. One is the Haryana Orbital Rail. By when do we expect that project to commence? Are all the land and other ROW related issues taken care? Secondly, what is the status for the JJM? We earlier were looking at something like INR 2,000+ crore of revenue for FY 2024. We seem to be on track, but, just checking, on that number again, and also on the AP Irrigation Canal project. Yeah, thank you.
Yes, first thing, Haryana Orbital Rail, we executed the contract agreement in the month of May. We commenced the work there, and work is going on, the last week only we started the construction works also. There is no issue with the land, we feel that this project will be on track as per the time we have set forth in the contract document. The second thing, we are maintaining the same thing, INR 2,000 crore+ revenue for under the Jal Jeevan Mission. The Q1 , we achieve INR 400 crore+ revenue. Maybe second quarter, there may be slight thing during the intense monsoon and widespread monsoon strikes. We should be able to achieve INR 2,004+ revenue from the mission actually.
Third, with respect to AP Canal, as of now, as you know that only we'll be able to do only 5 to 6 months work. Now, water is being thrown into the canal system, so almost we stopped our works. This year, again, we come into the work during the next working season. Also, we are looking forward to have some payments because we have not received any payments so far from them.
Sir, any number you'd like to leave us, how much execution to expect in the AP Irrigation Project this financial year?
This financial year, we are expecting, around INR 100 crore.
... around INR 100 crore. Sir, this, when this project becomes very, very long tenured, right? I mean, it's around INR 1,000 crore project, where I think still may have-
Till April 2024, because of the limited working season availability, and also there is a-.
We have already slowed down.
We have already slowed down, and we written a letter to them saying that because paucity of funds and other things, so this project will take longer time.
Right, sir. Okay, thank you. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir, and congratulations on a very, very good set of numbers. First question is, sir, can you update us on the monetization, where we are right now, and are we confident that we will, we will close this in next couple of quarters or by end of fiscal year 2024?
Actually, earlier, earlier, we have informed in the last call, the company continued to give highest priority to the monetization of operation assets, therefore unlock its equity and divi- leverage its balance sheet. In the first floor, total 12 projects floated for monetization, including 11 HAM assets and one build-to-tool assets, which would have a total debt over INR 6,900 crore and total equity of over INR 1,700 crore. Strategic advisor retained for running the process, and interested buyers submitted their non-binding offer for the said assets.
Okay, understood. So you expect this to be finalized in the next couple of quarters. Is that a fair assessment?
Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
My second question is, sir, on the tender pipeline for NHAI, how is it looking like at this point of time? Is the number of more than INR 1 trillion, INR 100,000 crore?
See, NHAI already floated tenders, now.
Around.
tenders are already floated, which is coming around to 70-.
Sir, sorry to interrupt you. Yogesh, sir, may I request you to come a little closer towards the mic?
Yeah, NHAI already floated RFP for over, over 68 projects that comprising EPC and HAM, that is costing around more than INR 65,000 crore for bidding. Bid due dates for the above projects are staggered up to 31st October 2023, I think.
Yes, post that also, we have another five months, November, December and three months in the next calendar year. That's another INR 30,000-40,000. As you said, the pipeline will be around INR 100,000 crore during the current financial year.
My, my last question is, sir, how is the land acquisition progress on the 4 projects, 4 road projects which have won recently, especially the, the Varanasi-Ranchi highway?
In case of Varanasi-Ranchi Highway, NHAI has already issued Section 3G. Section 3G, at a more than 70%, Section 3G has been done. It is the Section 3H, which has to happen. The deposited money will now be in the designated accounts, and only Section 3H has to happen. They are, they are speaking with the respective state governments to expedite the process of Section 3H, so that the disbursements are distributed to the land owners and the land is taken into possession.
Right.
We, we hope that this should happen before the-
Appointed.
appointed date, and the conditions prescribed time what is available to NHAI, including 5 months to work for the financial year.
By end of Q3, we should be able to start the work. Is that a fair estimate?
It should be, because we signed it now...
It will take around five months, I think.
Yeah, yeah, five months. Maybe Q4, we'll be able to start the preliminary works.
Understood, sir. Thank you. Understood, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
gentlemen. Thank you for taking my question. Sir, first the bookkeeping question. If you can give us the details of the outstanding order backlog for the projects which I may ask. Sir, the outstanding order backlog for Lucknow Ring Road 1, Delhi-Vadodara Package 31 and 29.
Lucknow Ring Road, Ring Road is complete, already completed.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
BV, BV 29 is already completed, and 31 balance amount is around INR 100 crore.
Okay. Then, on the, the other HAM projects of, Chakeri- Allahabad, then, Chutmalpur-Ganeshpur , Unnao, Lalganj, Jagdishpur, Aligarh, Kanpur, Package Five, Meerut-Najibabad .
Chakeri - Allahabad is almost completed. It is only INR 34 crore remaining. Meerut- Najibabad is INR 165 crore. Chakeri, INR 227 crore, Jagdishpur, Faizabad is-
Chalakie is INR 227, right, sir?
Yeah.
Unnao, Lalganj?
Around INR 300 crore.
Sir, Jagdishpur and Aligarh, Kanpur, Package 5?
Aligarh, Kanpur, Package Five, around under INR 50 crore.
Jagdishpur?
Jagdishpur, Faizabad is around INR 90 crore.
Sir, this canal project, still the status quo is INR 979 crore. There's no change, right?
We have executed this in this quarter, around INR 14 crore work. The outstanding around INR 964 crore.
Okay. sir, the EPC value of this 4 HAM projects where we have signed the concession agreement should be almost like 85% of the BPC. That is a fair assumption?
Yeah, 85, 90, right.
Sir, it will be 85% of the BPC, of course, but BPC doesn't include GST.
GST.
Likewise, EPC also 85% not included, that also not including GST.
Got it. Got it. Sir, can you give us the equity break up? Because at the start of the call, you said balance equity requirement. Can you give a break up for the next 2 years? How are we planning?
For 18 projects, we required INR 2,440 crore, and for remaining new projects, INR 500 crore. Total requirement around INR 2,900 crore, and we have already executed INR 1,716 crore till June 2023.
Mm.
We, we require only INR 1,228 crore in next 2-3 years.
Mm. Can you break up, sir? 9 months, 25, 26.
FY 2024, you can take around INR 80 crore. 2025 will be around INR 450 crore.
Mm.
FY 2026 will be around 350. Remaining 1 FY 2027.
Okay. INR 380 crore will be 9 months. Got it. Sir, what is the toll collection at the operational asset, if you can highlight?
Yeah. Toll collection, MP Highway, it was INR 12.3 crore in Q1 .
Mm.
Kanpur highway, around INR 26.5 crore.
Mm.
Bareilly Banda, 16.2.
Marela?
Marela, it was INR 12.5.
Rae Bareli is a new project. Got you.
INR 32 crore, yeah.
INR 32 crores. Yes, yes. Sir, on the other, other break up, if you can give, like, CapEx incurred in Q1 and the targeted CapEx for full year, and mobilization, advance, retention, unbilled, debtors, inventory and payables?
CapEx, we are expecting FY 2024, around INR 100 crore-INR 120 crore. Out of that, INR 13 crore we have already taken in the first quarter.
Mm.
The retention as of June 30, is INR 120 crore, and advances from clients is around INR 490 crore.
Okay. unbilled, if any? Hello.
Unbilled amount, in June 30, around INR 53 crore.
If you can share the debtors, inventories and payables.
Debtors almost is the same in March. It is 93 days, which we already uploaded in the presentation.
Mm.
In case you want the break up, EPC is around 43% and 56% HAM outstanding.
In value terms, if you can give, otherwise, it's okay. Inventory and payables, if possible.
We will share that.
We will share. We will share.
Okay. Thanks. Sir, I have more question. I'll get back into you. Thanks a lot, sir. Thank you.
Sure, sure.
Thank you. Next follow-up question is from Manoj Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Sir, Lucknow, Unnao- Lalganj order book and Meerut-Najibabad, the order book is how much?
Unnao- Lalganj is around INR 300 crore.
It is.
Executed.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
INR 165 crore.
INR 165 crore. Ghaziabad-Aligarh , that is the package 1C?
One C is INR 480 crore.
INR 480 crore. Haryana, rail, the value will the same, INR 772 crore.
Right, right.
Water debtors is how much, sir, out of EPC debtors you mentioned, but how much is JJM debtors?
As on June 13, it was around INR 400 crore, but, mostly we have recovered during this, July and August. Presently, it will be around INR 250 crore. This is our-
Okay.
Correct.
Okay. And, inventory and trade payable would be how much? Last March, it was inventory was INR 764 crore. What would be the broader number, as on June?
Inventory as of June 30, around INR 880 crore.
Trade payable would be?
Around INR 600 crore, sir.
INR 600 crore. Okay. Sir, when we say that, in terms of the HAM monetization, we'll so just to clarify two things, one, we definitely we are saying it will be done in 2022? In terms of the cash payment or cash received, from the buyer, when are we going to get this money from them?
We are expecting in this financial year.
Okay. Okay, the entire money we are expecting to get in this FY 2024 only.
Yes, yes, we are. Yes, expected.
Okay. sir, any water projects you said that we are, we are looking at, so, is it anything left in UP or the MP one we are now going to bid for?
One project is left in UP under phase four, around INR 950 crore. Apart from there are projects that are coming up in the states of MP, Rajasthan, and also other states.
Okay. Okay. In terms of the bonus, sir, still that Aligarh-Kanpur Package five, then the INR 15 crore of Aligarh Moradabad, that we have already received 1,500, INR 15 crore. We have received. This Aligarh-Kanpur pending?
No, no. In case of Aligarh Moradabad, we are yet to receive the bonus because their, their final bill and other things to be settled, so we are talking to them. In case of Aligarh-Kanpur package five, so once CO is declared, then we exactly know what will be the early completion bonus for a particular HAM project.
Yeah. Apart from any other bonus, that, this year, we can expect?
See, that depends, the HAM projects, period. This quarter financially, as of now, we are not expecting any bonus. If you going forward, if you complete any new ongoing HAM projects ahead of schedule, then we'll be able to get the bonus.
Thank you. Shawn, sorry to interrupt you. I'll request you to join the queue again for a follow-up question. Next question is from the line of Ankit from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Hello. Am I audible?
Yes.
Am I, am I audible? Yeah, I just want to confirm one thing. In last quarter, you had given a guidance of 10%-15% in terms of revenue and EBITDA margin around 13%-13.5%. In current quarter, you are already making EBITDA margin of around 21%. Why the guidance is like that? It is on the console basis or it is on standalone basis, the guidance?
It is standalone basis.
Okay, it's on standalone basis.
Around for the console, console basis for the-
Sorry, sorry. Come back.
The guidance, what we have given last year is on a standalone basis, only 13%-35%, 13.5%.
Okay.
After now, Q1 also, it is around that only.
Okay.
Welcome.
Okay, got it. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead.
Hello. Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for taking my question. Sir, my question was with respect to the JJM opportunity in Uttar Pradesh, phase IV. I think last time the figure that you gave us, it was supposed to be almost around INR 15,000 odd crore sort of opportunity. I think, during your comments, you said it's around INR 950 crore, which is pending. Does it mean that the balance is already awarded? I mean, if it is awarded, does it mean, I mean, we couldn't get any orders, so would that mean the competition has gone up? How, how should we kind of consider this that we couldn't secure any order from almost INR 14,000 odd crore of number that was bid in the recent past?
That is correct. The balance projects have been awarded. See, the projects, majority of the projects comprising the distribution network, which we have not focused upon, because already we are doing distribution, networks for 22,880 gram panchayat.
One more feedback also.
Yeah, yeah, that we are doing. We, we focused upon the surface water and including the cross-country pipeline and railing maintenance. There is a limited number of projects, we couldn't get the any of these projects because of the stiff competition.
Okay.
One project is left, so we'll be trying for that.
Okay. from our existing, just how many DPRs would have been approved by now and the work has started? how many more are yet to be approved from, from the existing?
2,880, almost 2,750 DPRs have been approved and seen. As of now, we, we have a total work open fronts of 6,500. If you take out the INR 1,500 crore yearly, as of date, we have completed more than that. Around INR 5,000 crore roughly left.
Sure.
This year we are expecting INR 2,000+ crore, and remaining work we'll be able to execute in FY 2025.
Sure. Just one last question from my side. When I look at our segment performance, right, and thank you for giving us a breakup between your road, EPC and water. What I realize is, and what is evident from the numbers is, essentially the road seem to be kind of declining. In this quarter, when I compare it on a YOY basis, we seem to be down almost around 12%. When I look at the last year numbers as well, the growth that we delivered was because of water, and road was largely flat. When do you see the situation to change, wherein the roads again would become a larger share?
I mean, it still is a larger share, but then, it doesn't appear to be the growth driver for the time being, and roads seem to be the only, water seem to be the only, growth driver. I mean, do you see the situation will change and road again would start growing, and, we would also get to have support from water, which is where both the segments would drive growth, rather than one of two segments driving growth?
Yeah. See, the growth will be in a balanced kind of a platform, will be framework only. See, what has happened in the, in the road sector, the some of the projects, we are in the second, like, whatever MD mentioned, DAV 29, LRR, AKP 5, and also we completed Bihar and all. Again, what has happened now, the 7 HAM projects, now they are in the picking up. We started the last quarter, and now they are in the picking up, and they will have a peak during the next quarter and coming quarters, 2 quarters. Road continuing to be our flagbearer. Road will continue-
Focus area.
to be the focus area. Definitely, the, the margin, the revenue as well as the EBITDA margin will improve. Maybe there may be some temporary kind of hesitation during the particular quarter. Otherwise, road will remain to be the, our main focus area and also, revenue contributor.
Sure. One just last, with your permission, please. I mean, this is more sort of bookkeeping kind of question. When I look at the depreciation number, possible for you, and I'm not sure if you have that number readily available with you or not, possible for you to kind of break it down between how much of this is because of, the road and how much is attributable to the water segment? The idea was to try and understand the water, margins a little better, because when I look at the segment margin, water is doing around 15 on, I imagine these are EBIT margins, where then we would have adjusted for depreciation. Would, would that.
Water, we don't have any major machinery deployed. Certainly, the depreciation in the water sector is very insignificant when compared to road, where we deploy heavy machinery. Practically, water, we have not deployed any plant and machinery, except to kind of permissions and other things.
Sure.
Even the digging of bore and done, done by expert agencies. They bring their own bores and their own rigs, and they do it.
Mm-hmm.
It does not come in the books.
How should I look at the margins? Because, I mean, in roads, we tend to take that equity infusion requirement, as well, and despite that, the margin, segment margin are lower. And with water, which is probably EPC, are able to get access to mobilization advances as well. There's hardly any CapEx, but then seem to be generating much better margins. So how should I reconcile whether there's, and wherein, I mean, there's water, which is generating more with, and the work happening intensely, and then road is generating less?
No, o nce these new projects, new road projects are picked up, see, the cost of, I think now marginal cost would be less, when we have a higher, revenue from the road sector. Even, despite of the EBITDA, depreciation and other things, road will continue to earn that 30-35, 13.5%. EBITDA will sustain in the road sector alone. This is the. Now, as of now, as I said, that, depreciation is not almost nil in case of water. It is showing optically, but going forward, this would not be an issue in the road sector also. That also, on a standalone basis, still will have a 30 - 30.5.
Once these new projects and the ongoing, completing projects also will be earning some amount, all 7 projects are in full swing, which we started execution sometime in the beginning of this year.
Thank you, Prem. Sorry to interrupt you. I'll request you to join the queue again for a follow-up question. I request to all the participants, please restrict to two questions per participant. Next question is from the line of Nikhil from HDFC. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I had a question. Last, last quarter, you said that you had identified around 11 HAM and 1 EPC for monetization. Where are we? Like, what's the position as on date, on the monetization plan?
Yeah, that is, that is, as I, my colleague mentioned, the same thing, 11 HAM assets and 1 BOT toll asset. Out of 12 assets, already we have a completion for seven-- six assets. 1 more asset also will be getting the same way. This same portfolio will continue.
You are expecting to close the monetization, the plans and all those things by the year end, right?
Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yes.
Okay. Sir, on the JJM revenue for the full year, you mentioned INR 2,400 crore or INR 2,000 crore?
That is above 2,000. Above 2,000, 2,000 plus.
Okay. And sir, the new, four, the four new HAM assets that you had won in the last, in last year. What is the expected appointed date for them?
We are expecting appointed date for these projects during the Q4 of this current financial year.
Okay, sir. Understood. Sir, what is the current bid pipeline?
Current bids pipeline. There are so many bids, MHI, floated already over 68 projects. That includes EPC and HAM, both. That is costing around INR 65,000 crore.
Okay, sir. sir, those were my initial questions. In case if I have more, I'll rejoin the queue. Thank you and all the best.
Please, please.
Thank you, Nikhil. Next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Security. Please go ahead.
Yes, thanks for the opportunity once again. My question is, are you looking to refinance the existing debt of the completed road project? What are the opportunities which are available?
We are already working in monetization, so we are not thinking that.
Okay.
In the debt is on a sustainable levels only, as we mentioned, during the course of speech, that it is 1.41, which is a sustainable kind of a thing. Post monetization, this will further get reduced. We are expecting it will be below 1% or below 1.
Understood, sir. My second question is, what are the kind of tie-ups, the debt tie-ups, you're looking for the new projects, and one, what kind of money is available, and at what rate and reset?
We have already tied up with the bank. We have, in principle, we have already received the sanction of all the four projects, and the final sanction is under process. It will be clear separately.
Is it a possibility to raise this bond, sir?
Pardon?
Is it, is it possible to raise, to tie up the debt in the bond market?
No, sir, we are taking the long-term debt from the banker, banks.
Understood. What is the reset, reset this is only 1 year, 1 year of the rate, 1 year or it's more than 1 year?
One year, one year.
Understood, sir. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you.
Thank you. Next follow-up question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks once again, once again for taking my question. Sir, on the bid pipeline, you have highlighted, that you have bid for 11,400, which can open for next couple of months. Sir, anything which you can highlight on the non-road segment, as we are also targeting, INR 2,000 crore-INR 3,000 crore of inflows from, you know, metros, rails, and, water. What are the particular bids which are outstanding as of now, or and any upcoming bids which you can give in terms of value from various states, if possible?
See, what bids we had already submitted 11 bids, 5 HAM and 6 EPC. Yeah, most of them are highway sector only, and except there is one major bridge is there, a limited structure is there, over INR 3,000 crore. Others are from the highway sector only.
Okay, 11 bids plus 1, 12 bids. Yes, that is what we are trying to say, right?
11 bids. 11 bids, that includes the elevated corridor of INR 3,000 crore.
These are all NHAI?
NHAI and MoRTH, both are there.
Sir, interestingly, sir, this time, MoRTH, we have started participating in, and even competitor participating in the MoRTH projects. What kind of pipeline do we see? Because we have already got one project and, you know, more. What kind of view you can give towards the MoRTH pipeline? Because NHAI is always, you know, big pipeline, large pipeline. On the MoRTH, what kind of pipeline you see other than NHAI, where we can participate?
Sir, I'll tell you, the, you get 12,000 kilometers roads to be awarded during the FY 2024. That is what target set by the Ministry. 50% by NHAI, 6,000 kilometers, and the remaining 60% by MoRTH and NHIDCL, Infrastructure Development Corporation, to do the, this Parvatmala and other things in the roads.
Got it.
This time, MoRTH is also coming out with the bids on their own, and we see some kind of a substantial amount of pipeline from MoRTH also.
Basically, we can see around INR 30,000-40,000 crore from MoRTH also, other than INR 65,000 crore of NHAI.
We have not really assessed what would be the value in terms of estimated cost, but it should be around that only.
That is again a big positive for us in terms of inflows.
Yes, yes, yes. Earlier also, we executed successfully two MoRTH projects, executed through state and departments.
Sir, anything on railways or metros and state highways, you see, which you can throw some light on?
We are expecting some bids from the Maharashtra government also, from MSRDC, that is costing around INR 30,000 crore.
When you have to submit these bids, sir?
It's a prequalification document is already submitted. We're expecting. Which will come next month. Which will RFPs maybe next couple of months, RFP should be there. This bids floated by MSRDC in the state of Maharashtra.
Likely awarding would be November, December, probably.
Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes.
We will participate in all the projects. We are qualified to participate in all the projects.
Yeah, majority of the thing.
We are qualified.
our RFQ, and we are qualified.
Okay, that's it from my side. Thank you and all the best, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Parikshat Shah from LARA Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, you mentioned about the Jal Jeevan Mission, bid. Can you just give some value on that? You said, apart from Uttar Pradesh, you are participating in MP and Rajasthan. If you could provide some color on what is the total value size of those projects that you're looking to build or something like that?
See, some of the bids are there, already floated, and some of the bids they have to float, because again under JJM. Exactly value, we don't have in hand, but we'll share with you separately.
Okay, that's all from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from Kumar Sriman, from Axis Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good afternoon, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. My questions pertains to competitive intensity, both in HAM as well as EPC projects. One of your competitor, in the Concor, they've said that they are basically bidding for higher EPC projects, INR 1,000 crore. How do you see the competitive intensity currently, both in EPC as well as in HAM?
Sir, on the relative terms, definitely competition in EPC is more than HAM, because the HAM required 60% investment by the concessionaire. Certainly, competition in the EPC is more. Similarly, competition in the lesser value of the work is more when compared to competition with the higher value of works. Because even EPC also, if you have a larger works of 3,000-4,000, it would require some kind of a working capital. Similarly, in case of larger HAM projects, 60% of the debt and equity has to be infused by the concessionaire. That also require the credibility with the banks and lenders. This, as simple as that, more size, sizing more, less is the competition, and the investment is more, less is the competition.
You are also looking to bid for higher EPC projects, more than INR 1,000 crore, something like that?
If, if our preference would be that, in case, given set of basket of projects, our focus would be, higher return, higher value, both in terms of HAM as well as EPC.
Okay. Sir, are you also looking to bid for a station redevelopment project? Government has just come with INR 24,000 crore of projects, in, for station redevelopment. What's your take on that?
We are evaluating the opportunity, so we have not taken any call on that. We'll share with you once we have some kind of a findings of our internal evaluation.
Okay. Okay, sir. That's all from my side, and all the best to you.
Thank you. Participant, you may press star and one to ask a question. Next question is from Vishal Periwal from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir, thanks for the opportunity. On, on the margin front, I think if you look at on 15% growth rate and plus, we are targeting better revenues from JJM project, which is a higher margin. Now, our guidance on the margin is still the same. I mean, just trying to understand, like, you know, are we conservative enough from the guidance front, or probably it can surprise you upside, the 13.5% that you guided?
Yeah. If, if you see the JJM total portfolio of JJM is around INR 7,000 crore. What we achieved around INR 1,400+ crore, which is just a 20%. Now it will be premature to say that the JJM will have a higher margin than that, because the items are there, we are executing. The situation will crystallize only once we reach more than 50% of the JJM, whether the JJM projects are giving higher margin than the whole. Overall margin, still we are maintaining it 13%-13.5%. That includes both JJM as well as road sector. It will be too premature to say that JJM work should be giving a higher margin, until unless we execute at least more than 50% of the order book available under the JJM.
Okay. Sure, sir. Second question is on, I mean, like, you know, the road sector opportunity. Though, I mean, like, you know, the opportunity is there, but within that, on a quarterly basis, we have seen not much of bid pipeline or probably, like, you know, the bids are not coming. At a sector level, can you share, like, you know, it is more to do with, like, NHAI or probably anything that, that you can highlight that in future?
Actually, pipeline is there, yeah. Even pipeline was there even the last financial year also, because the NHAI has to ensure that land is in place before award of the projects and other internal issues and that. See, these bids, bid due dates are continuously getting postponed. See, the whatever bids they plan to bid before the March 31 of 2023, they postponed to Q1 , now Q1 again, further they postponed to Q2 . Pipeline is there, both with NHAI and MoRTH. Because of the some internal issues, they also want to have a land in place, the bid dates are getting shifted from time to time. Otherwise, there is enough pipeline, because see, once they set a target of 12,000 kilometers of road, then they have to do.
Now, it comes to around INR 2 lakh crore kind of a thing. They have to award. That's why, as I have indicated during the speech, the intensity of award would be much higher during the second half of the current financial year. Until unless they don't bid, they don't bid out and award, so there would not be in a position to achieve the target of INR 12,000 crore before the end of current financial year.
Okay. Okay. Sure, sir. In terms of just on the first question, which I just asked on the margin and coming on the revenue contribution, so irrigation as a, as a, as a sector or probably like, you know, other than roads, so in, in FY24 itself, it will contribute more than 30%?
That will be continuing even in the next year?
See, as you said, the INR 2,000+ crore, and last year, we had around INR 7,050+ crore, 15%, our revenue balance comes to around INR 8,000 crore. So INR 2,000 crore+ would be, I'd say, around roughly yeah, 25%-30% from the non-road sector and 70%-75% road sector for the current financial year.
Okay. Sure, sir. I'll, I'll come back and let you know, sir. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Nikhil from ICICI Securities Research.
Just a couple of questions, sir. Our bottom margins have dipped QOQ. I know-- I understand Q4 is always, a better quarter for execution, but should we expect our margins to become again, go back to 17-18 levels for water, by say, Q4? EBIT margins, I'm saying.
Yeah. in the Q2 , since because as I mentioned, the monsoon is very intense and also very active, because the our fixed cost will remain same, whereas, the revenue would be lesser than what we had achieved in the Q4 and Q1. We need to see how this... whether this 16%-17% will be able to sustain or not, because of the low volume of low revenues in the Q2, because of the monsoon season.
Okay. Sir, just one more question. We will receive somewhere around INR 2,500 crore of cash, and we have an equity investment requirement of around INR 1,100 crore. Will the excess go entirely to reduce the debt?
Let us see. Actually, we have well under core equity requirement of the existing projects.
Right.
As Ambika told that we are also going to build, We are expecting around INR 10,000 crore in this year. We require the equity to be including those projects.
Okay.
Apart from we have a requirement of cash actually there.
Okay. Understood, sir. Thank you. That's all from me.
Thank you.
Thank you. As there are no further questions, I will now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you, everyone, for your participation in our earning calls. We have uploaded the presentation on our company website as well as on our exchange list. In case of further queries, you will get in touch with the Strategic Growth Advisors, our investor relations advisors, or feel free to get in touch with us. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much. On behalf of IDBI Capital, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.