Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the PNC Infratech Limited Earnings Conference Call, hosted by Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all the participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers, I'm pleased to welcome you all on PNC Infratech Limited Q2 FY 2024 and H1 FY 2024 earnings conference call. We have with us the Managing Director of the company, Mr. Yogesh Jain, along with the senior management team. We'll begin with opening remarks from the management, followed by interactive Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yeah. Good afternoon, and season's greetings to everyone. On behalf of PNC Infratech Limited, I extend a very warm welcome to everyone for joining us today on this call. I have with me Mr. T.R. Rao, Director, Infra, and Mr. D.K. Agarwal, CFO, Mr. D.K. Maheshwari, VP Finance, and Strategic Growth Advisors, our Investor Relations Advisors. We have uploaded the financial results and investor presentation on Stock Exchanges, as well as the company's website for your reference. Initially, I would like to share key updates in the industry with you, followed by key operational development of the company and highlights of the financial performance during quarter two of financial year 2024 and H1, H1 of financial year 2024, post which we will be happy to answer your queries.
The target set for highway construction in financial year 2024 is higher than financial year 2023, as it stands at 13,800 km against 10,331 km constructed in financial year 2023. However, highway construction experienced a significant decline during the month of September 2023, with only 371 route kilometers completed during the month. Essentially, due to the active monsoon and persistent challenges in getting the vacant ROW and removal of obstruction timely for uninterrupted construction. Industry expert availability of vacant and long stretches of maximum extent at the very beginning of project execution for uninterrupted construction and progress to meet the targets. When it comes to award of new projects, though, NHAI's target of 12,500 km length of new highway set for the financial year 2024 by MoRTH, NHAI and NHIDCL together.
With half of the set target to be met by NHAI, awarding activity has been very subdued during the first half of financial year 2024. Many new projects on both EPC and HAM modes scheduled for bidding during the first half of financial year 2024 have been shifted to second half of financial year 2024. Even bid due dates set for quite a few new projects in October 2023 have also been postponed to November and beyond. Industry expects that the government authorities will resolve land acquisition and other issues quickly, thus making funds available for bidding and construction of proposed new projects to achieve their highway awarding target of 12,500 km before end of the financial year.
Given the target, NHAI alone is expected to award new projects worth over INR 150,000 crore before end of current financial year, out of which bids for projects worth over INR 90,000 crore already floating. On brighter side, according to Crisil Infrastructure Year Book 2023, India infrastructure spending will double to INR 14,300,000 crore during the period between 2024 and 2030, compared to the amount spent during the period 2017 to 2023. According to the industry sources, the government intend to expedite monetization of operational highways in the coming years in order to garner funds about INR 200,000 crore.
Similarly, in the next three years, NHAI is expected to construct up to 4,500 km of new highways on an average in a year and monetize these assets through InvIT and TOT models. Now, coming to the updates on company. Our company has received provisional completion certificate for four-laning of Mitrasen to Kanpur section of NH-91 in the state of Uttar Pradesh on hybrid annuity mode, which is known as the Aligarh-Kanpur Package Five on August 4, 2023, 38 days ahead of schedule, and became eligible for early completion bonus. Further, company also received completion certificate for Package 29 of 8-lane Delhi-Vadodara access-controlled greenfield alignment expressway, executed on EPC mode under Bharatmala Pariyojana. Company, one of the wholly owned subsidiary, PNC Kanpur Highway Limited, concessionaire for Kanpur- Kabrai BOT toll project, has repaid the term loan in full.
As such, there is no debt outstanding. Company's strong balance sheet and financial prudence result constant credit rating upgrades in sustainable manner, which enables company to secure debt at competitive rates. Now, moving on the operational and financial performance of the company. The company is currently having 27 BOT- toll, BOT Annuity, and HAM projects. Out of these 27 fund-based projects, company has 22 HAM projects, with an aggregate bid project cost of INR 28,673 crore. Out of 22 HAM projects, company achieved PCOD and COD for seven projects, 11 projects are under construction, and four projects are under development. With regard to equity investment, the cumulative requirement for HAM projects is about INR 1,100 crore.
Till 30th September 2023, we already infused INR 1,845 crore in HAM projects, and the remaining equity is to be invested over the course of next two to three years. The internal accruals that would be generated over the next two to three years should be adequate to meet the said equity investment requirements. Now, moving on to our order book. As of 30th September 2023, our unexecuted order book stands around INR 18,000 crore, which includes EPC value of INR 4,400 crore of four new HAM projects for which concession agreement has been already signed. Out of the above total unexecuted order book, highway and expressway contracts contributed around 72%, while water and irrigation projects contribute around 28%.
The company has achieved notable progress in rural drinking water projects under the Jal Jeevan Mission during the past two quarters. In the current financial year, till 30th September 2023, company has booked a revenue of INR 818 crores in water segment, and overall, till date, company booked a total revenue of INR 1,850 crores under this segment. Revenue booked during the quarter ending 30th September 2023 in water segment was INR 397 crores. Now, I would present the result for quarter ended September 30, 2023, and half yearly of financial year 2024. Before discussing financial performance, I would like to share that during half one of financial year 2023, the company received an early completion bonus of INR 37.02 crores, which was included in the revenue of H1 of financial year 2023.
We have moderated the above in key financials of quarter two and H1 of financial year 2023 to make the financial year performance quarter two and H1 of financial year 2024, comparable with the corresponding periods. Standalone quarterly results. Revenue of second quarter of financial year 2024 is INR 1,693 crore, which is higher by 8% as compared to INR 1,561 crore in second quarter of financial year 2023. The EBITDA for the second quarter is INR 228 crore, which is higher by 10% as compared to INR 207 crore in second quarter of financial year 2023. The EBITDA margin for the second quarter of financial year 2024 is 13.4%.
The profit for the second quarter of financial year 2024 is INR 140 crore, as compared to INR 131 crore in the second quarter of financial year 2023, a growth of 7% on year-over-year basis. The PAT margin for the second quarter of financial year 2024 is 8.3%. The standalone revenue for H1 financial year 2024 is INR 3,554 crore, which is higher by 8% as compared to INR 3,282 crore in half yearly 2023. The standalone EBITDA of half yearly financial year 2024 is INR 473 crore, which is higher by 10% as compared to INR 428 crore in H1 financial year 2024.
The standalone profit for H1 financial year 2024 is INR 296 crore, as compared to INR 261 crore in the H1 financial year 2023, with a growth of 14%, the PAT margin for the H1 financial year 2024 is 8.3%. Consolidated revenue of quarter two, financial year 2024 is INR 1,911 crore, as compared to INR 1,795 crore in quarter two, financial year 2023, with a growth of 6%. The consolidated EBITDA for the second quarter of financial year 2024 is INR 400 crore, as compared to INR 326 crore in quarter two, financial year 2023, with a growth of 22%. The EBITDA margin for quarter two, financial year 2024 is 20.9%.
The consolidated PAT for quarter two, financial year 2024, is INR 148 crore, as compared to INR 132 crore in quarter two, financial year 2023, a growth of 12%. The PAT margin for the second quarter of financial year 2024 is 7.7%. The consolidated revenue for H1 financial year 2024 is INR 4,003 crore, which is higher by 5% as compared to INR 3,811 crore in H1, financial year 2023. The consolidated EBITDA for the H1, financial year 2024, is INR 836 crore as compared to INR 808 crore, with a growth of 4%. EBITDA margin for H1, financial year 2024, is 20.9%. The consolidated profit for H1, financial year 2024, is INR 329 crore.
The PAT margin for the H1 of financial year 2024 is 8.2%. On the standalone balance sheet side, as on 30th September 2023, our net working cycle is 79 days, as compared to 87 days as on 31st March 2023. Our net worth on a standalone basis is INR 4,226 crore as on 30th September 2023, whereas total standalone debt is INR 395 crores. The total cash and bank balance as on 30th September 2023 is INR 197 crore. We have a net debt of INR 197 crore. This translates to net debt to equity of 0.13 times. On a consolidated basis, our net worth is INR 4,612 crores, whereas total debt is INR 6,959 crores as on 30th September 2023.
The total cash and bank balance, including current investment, is INR 802 crore. This translates to net debt to equity of 1.47x . With this, we now open the floor for question answer. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touch-tone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. So my first question is, do you still maintain the order inflow guidance for your FY 2024, given the, given that the NHAI awarding has been very muted, and we haven't seen the, any order inflow from the other segment?
Guidance, what earlier we said, same thing we are maintaining. Guidance for the FY 2024 will be 10%-15% growth over the FY 2023. And, since as our managing director has spelled out just now, and most of the projects which were, supposed to be bid out during the first half of the financial year, 2024, have been shifted to second half of the reasons best known to NHAI. So we still expect, up to, INR 10,000 crore new order inflow, during the current financial year, before end of this, before that first March. And huge number of, projects are in pipeline and, already projects worth more than INR 90,000 crore have been floated, with the due dates staggering between, 1st November and 31st December.
Further, bids are also expected to be floated during the fourth quarter of the current financial year. We still maintain INR 10,000 crore new orders before end of the current financial year.
Are you seeing, sir, that the BOT portion is increasing in the tenders which are floated? And my question is, to connect, are you seeing that the BOT share is increasing in the tenders, and will you participate in those tenders?
You are talking about BOT toll?
Yes, BOT toll. Is it?
No, no. As of now, the tenders which have already been floated by NHAI are HAM as well as the EPC projects. We can say 60% HAM and 40% EPC projects. So far, no BOT toll projects are being promoted by NHAI.
My last question is on the non-road order inflows, which are the segment which you're looking at, and are you seeing some activity? Because the H1 we haven't seen, we haven't received any order. So which are the activity, which are the segment you are looking at, and which are the geographies?
See, on the non-road sector, as you know, we are already doing a project of INR 6,800 crore in rural drinking water supply, and those projects are progressing well. We are looking at the same sector because of the synergy and the experience gained over last two years. Rural drinking water projects we are looking wherever these projects are funded by Government of India under Jal Jeevan Mission. Because there's a slight pause in some of the states which are going for a poll, like Rajasthan, Chhattisgarh, and Madhya Pradesh. So we expect in this region new projects on the rural drinking water sector. Post election process, so we expect some projects will come up for bidding, and we will pursue those opportunities.
Understood, sir. Thank you and all the best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you so much. Participants who wish to join the question queue, please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Ashish Shah from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good afternoon, and thank you for the opportunity. So the question is on the total receivables and unbilled on the water, the Jal Jeevan revenue that we have executed. So if you can share, what is the total amount of receivables and unbilled from that particular segment?
As regards the receivable, the debtor days is 91 days, and EPC side, outstanding is around INR 1,000 crore, and SPV is INR 703 crore. Total, that amount is INR 1,769 crore. Actually, the EPC part is mainly because of the water, about INR 600 crore, and as of that, in the month of October, we have already realized more than INR 300 crore.
Okay. And balance, sir, out of the INR 1,000 crore receivables from EPG, which you said, 600 you said is water, and the balance 400 would by and large be what, sir?
Then, such as EPC project at Delhi-Vadodara, around, and canal, then, MSRDC, and say, small, outstanding, small, small, like Lucknow, Lucknow Ring Road, like that.
Right, sir. Right.
Old outstanding
Got it, sir. And sir, water meter, is there any delay in getting the money or yeah, time, this is like in line with what the billing cycle should have been?
No, no. Water, we are getting the thing, only the process is a bit lengthy when compared to highway and other thing, because the billing has to be done at a each scheme level. Each gram panchayat level, you have to do a, you have to raise a separate bill. So what is the large number of bills are to be generated, and then these bills are to be satisfied and then paid. So there is a slight delay in the preparation and processing of the bill. Otherwise, the money is coming. As Mr. Maheshwari said, as of thirtieth of September, more than INR 600 crore money were due, and in October itself, we realized more than INR 300 crore. Going forward in November and all, we'll be able to realize the entire amount, and then further billing will continue. So the process is like that. But as such, there is no problem of funds, or there's no problem in getting the payments. Only process is bit lengthy.
Got it, sir. What would be your target for water segment for the in terms of revenue for the financial year? I think earlier we have talked about a number upwards of INR 2,000 crore or somewhere in that range.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We, we are maintaining the same number. More than INR 800 crore we already billed, because of the monsoon and some flooding of some of the areas, the things are due. The water execution will pick up, during the second half of the current financial year. So we still maintaining between, at more than INR 2,000 crore billing in FY 2024.
Okay. And last one, before I get again in the queue, sir. What is the release expectancy, you know, installation, light and where are we in terms of the asset sale process? You know, and, and are we on target to, you know, achieve a part of that process at least by March 2024 as per what you said?
Sir, asset sale progress, sir. Asset sale, where, where are we in that process? And, and are we on track to deliver at least, you know, a part of that asset sale for the concession assets by March 2024?
The monetization, you are talking about monetization. Monetization is on track.
Ji.
As last time we said, we entered into a non-binding term sheet with one of the prospective buyers who shown interest, and the due diligence process has already been completed. So we are on the further course of action. So we are on the track. We expect, we want that closure should happen before the end of the financial year, and we are working towards the same.
Got it, sir. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much. Participants who wish to ask questions, please press star and one at this time. The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, sir. My question is, in this year, how much would be our bidding in the non-road segments till now?
How much?
Nobody.
See, as you mentioned, as of now, there are no projects on anvil, in that non-road segment, but only water, where we have got the synergy. So we expect these bids will be floated post the election, completion of the election process, for the four states which are going on, and, before end of the current financial year. And other non-road sector also, we are looking at the opportunities. So like, metro rail and railway freight, this thing, and also in case of any, irrigation projects that are coming up, we are looking at. See, we expect, see, as we said, we are expecting a new business worth INR 10,000 crore. So-
In this financial year.
In the current financial year. So non-road sector may be around 15%-20% of that, we are targeting. So we come to know only once these projects are floated out.
Any other major jobs coming up in UP from now on, beyond the Ganga Expressway, from the state side, are you seeing any more tenders coming up? Either in roads or metro or any segment then.
No, no major, this thing, because these are the core sectors. These are metros, and these are becoming the road. So that's been very active. And,
Okay.
We are not seeing any significant number of projects in other sectors.
I see the reduction, I mean, we have seen, I mean, maybe what is the estimate that by December, do you think by December, the awarding happens, it happens, otherwise, from then onwards, as we move into election season, there won't be any major awards happening in the fourth quarter. So whatever happens now, it happens in next one and a half months. Is it the right assumption?
No, no. If you see the past trend, major awards happened during the fourth, fourth quarter. If you see the trend over the last five to six years, major awards are done to meet the targets during the fourth quarter. And even as I said, in the second, third quarter also, now large number of bids are lined up with their bid due dates ranging from first week of November till end of December. So again, new bids are expected in the fourth quarter, and that process should be over during the next five year, five months. So-
For the time being.
The target of 12,500 km of new projects. So there will be a-
But once the model code of conduct is... So, my assumption is that by budget session, maybe by end of January, we have the budget, and then after that, the parliament will be adjourned sine die, and then there could be model code of conduct which may hit in. So, do you think that's the risk potentially in terms of this year's awarding coming in, in the fourth quarter?
Yeah. So when it did, see, till end of January, we don't expect model code of conduct to come into this play. Only you are expecting in the beyond February only.
Okay.
These next three months will be, there will be very active bidding, there will be activity. So within three months, we are really targeting the projects. We identify the opportunities and we are targeting.
Okay. Just last question from the monetization bit, so maybe D.K., sir, can answer that. So in terms of readiness of the monetization process, so we have already, I think, the DDs come completed. So where do we stand in terms of NHAI approvals and the lenders and OC? So, I, I want to understand basically by March, if we announce the deal, so how much time do you think the money comes in, if all these approvals are in place?
See, typically, we have to take approval from NHAI for the transfer of ownership. As more than seven projects are there, the lock-in periods are over. Moreover, it's only a six-month lock-in period in case of HAM project. So, the lenders also don't see any major delay in getting the approval. The approval should be there within the range of three to four months. Actually, we should be able to get.
These seven projects have how much of equity investment and how much of debt?
We have not worked out. See, we identified the set of projects, we'll bifurcate and we'll share, we'll share it, individually. We'll share that.
Because I think, I think earlier you were saying it's about that, INR 1,700-INR 1,800 crore.
Sorry to interrupt. Mr. Kandpal, could you please use handset mode? I believe there is a loudspeaker mode active because of which there is an echo coming from your side.
One second. Hello?
Mr. Kandpal?
Total debt to INR 6 ,900 crores. Hello, Kandpalji?
Hello. Is it, is it. As the weekend, I was asking you, I'm telling you total equity investment, book value of the equity invested in the project being evaluated for monetization. So what was that number?
Mr. T. R. Rao has already said that it is actually a total debt of all 12 projects around INR6,900 crores but it will be decided at the closing date. But it is outstanding on the day, number one. Secondly, regarding the equity also, has already informed in the last call that in all 12 projects, total equity we have included around INR1700 crores in all 12 projects.
Okay, and we are evaluating the monetization of these all 12 projects. But I think Mr. Rao said that seven projects we are looking at, but we'll confirm that what are the seven and-
He told seven projects already we achieved the COD, and we don't take much more time to take the NOC from the NHAI because six months already been completed.
So those seven projects, you immediately monetize, and as the this period gets coming, you will get part money, and part will come after the completion of the six months, right?
Yeah, yeah. seven or it depends.
Okay.
On closing date. On closing date, yeah.
Thank you, and wish you the best, and wish you happy Diwali. Thank you.
Thank you. Same to you.
Thank you so much. The next question is from the line of Vasudev from Nuvama. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity, sir. So sir, my first question is, can you share that what is our current progress on the UP Jal Jeevan Mission project and the Andhra Irrigation project?
As we had mentioned, UP Jal, Jal Jeevan, we already completed more than INR 1,800 crore for this thing, work done by thirteenth of September. Then, for it's a progressing and further also done. Now, as of date, more than INR 2,000 crore works are already been completed, and this year we are expecting a billing over INR 2,000 crore. And the remaining billing will be done in the next year, and maybe some residual billing will be left at the end of FY 2025. Otherwise, progress, project is progressing as per the schedule.
Okay, sir. What about the Andhra irrigation project?
Irrigation project, because it's a canal system, from August onwards, the water is flowing into the canals. So as of now, the works are paused. We'll resume once the water is receded in the canal system, maybe next calendar year. We have done around INR 178 crores billing we have done.
Okay, okay. And so next question is that, you know, for the balance equity requirement, which will be infused, can you give the breakup, how much would be infused in FY 2024, and how much would be in FY 2025?
In FY 2024, we have already infused INR 592 crore in first half, and, in this, remaining six months, we require hardly INR 75 crore-INR 100 crore. In FY 2025, and 450, FY 2026, 430, and total requirement as on date is INR 1,095 crore.
Okay, sir. Lastly, on the CapEx front, so if you can give how much have we done in Q2 and how much do we plan for the full FY 2024?
We have given the guidance around INR 100 crore-INR 120 crore in FY 2024, and out of that, in first half, we have only taken around INR 27 crore, and within INR 100 crore in FY 2024, including INR 27 crore.
Okay, okay, sure. That's it from my side. I will join back. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you so much. The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you, sir. Sir, just to understand clearly, so INR 10,000 crore order inflow that we are looking at, we said 15%-20% from the non-road. So, if I explore, so maybe INR 8,000 crore-INR 8,500 crore we are looking in the road. So, how one can look at in terms of the EPC and HAM? Why I'm asking is, considering the competition, particularly in the EPC and even in the HAM also in recent one of the project we have seen, though the value is more than INR 1,500 crore, there is significant competition. The new players are taking it at much lower cost.
So in that sense, trying to understand how we are looking at HAM and EPC, and even if, let's say, we are able to get, are we confident to maintain our 13%-13.5% that we normally guide?
Yes, as we mentioned, now NHAI had already floated highway projects worth INR 90,000 crore. If you go by their estimated cost, 2/3 value of these projects are HAM, 1/3 value of these projects are EPC. Typically, more than INR 60,000 crore worth of projects are HAM projects, and INR 30,000 crore worth of projects are EPC. So even, even if you, where you are pursuing, so we expect in the same ratio of business inflow. So at least 60%-70% of the... what we are expecting, INR 8,500 crore and/or, will be from HAM and the remaining from the EPC.... We understand that the competition is more fierce in the case of EPC when compared to HAM projects.
Okay, got it.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes, sir, go ahead. Go ahead, sir.
Yeah. We still endeavor to maintain 13%-13.5% EBITDA in spite of the competition and other challenges.
Okay, okay. Got it. So for this year, definitely, we are looking at 10%-15%. So, for to achieve that revenue growth, 10%-15%, we need to do the much better execution. But, if I broadly look at, let's say, if we get this INR 10,000 crore, and then broadly is a HAM, so in terms of the FY 2025, how one can look at on the revenue growth front, should we still able to do a 10%-15%, or will it slow down?
See, some clarity, more clarity will emerge after the Q3 and the nine months, after completion of nine months, when we expect some new projects will come up, then more clarity will emerge. But, we will able to maintain a decent growth in FY 2025 also.
Okay. Second, on the four HAM projects where contract date is pending. So there are two questions. When the contract date to come? Last time we talked, by March 24th, the contract date to come, and that EPC value right now in the presentation we mentioned INR 4,400-odd crore versus last quarter, it was around INR 3,750-odd crore. So there is a significant jump in EPC value of these four HAM projects where AD is yet to come. So can you please explain?
Actually, earlier, what we have given, that was INR 3,700 crore without GST. And now this is INR 4,400 crore, is with the 18% of GST. This is the difference only.
So for us, the revenue is without GST, so why we should be looking at without GST number only? Why we are sharing the including GST number, because for revenue, we book without GST.
Yeah, for this purpose, you are okay. But the financial model purpose, what we have given to the bankers and the means of finance, we are taking the debt considering the 18% of GST.
Okay. To put it simply, when we say including this, the order book, what we are talking is more INR 7,800 crore. Then in that sense, it should reduce by that INR 500-600 crore. Okay, got it.
Over GST. Yes, yes.
Yeah. Second, in terms of this, monetization, just, one clarity. Last time we said, the entire deal and including the cash, to be received by March. Now we are saying the deal to be completed by March. So the cash to come in end of FY 2025, is this the way one can understand?
Yeah, one can understand like that. But if we are able to close it by at least some first set of projects here, cash should come, some part of cash should come in the current financial year. But anyhow, we want to be latest by first quarter of FY 2023.
Okay. Sir, I need all the data points, whatever is remaining, including project-wise order book. So first, on the balance sheet front, mobilization advance, retention money, retention money as on September, and then I will ask the project-wise order book.
Retention of September is INR 110 crore, and mobilization advance is INR 539 crore. Hello?
Yeah. Project-wise order book, sir. First is Chakeri Allahabad. What's the outstanding order book? Last time it was INR 34 odd crore.
It was INR 23 crores, sir.
INR 23 crore. Next is Challakere-Hiriyur.
INR 175 crores.
INR 175 crores. Then, Jagdishpur-Faizabad?
Only INR 37 crore.
INR 37 crores. Aligarh-Kanpur, Package Five?
INR 95 crores.
INR 95 crores. Unnao-Lalganj?
INR 168 crores .
INR 168 crores. Meerut, Najibabad?
INR 125 crores .
INR 125 crores. Delhi-Vadodara, Package 31?
INR 104 crores .
INR 104 crores. Okay, last time it was 100. Is there increase in the scope of work?
Yeah, we're changing it. Changing the scope.
Okay. And, irrigation project value is how much?
INR 950 crore.
INR 950 crore. Okay. Gaju Village- Devi nagar Bypass, Package 1 C?
1C, INR 104 crore, INR 400 crore.
INR 400 crore. Okay. And Haryana Orbital Rail Corporation project?
... INR 770 crore.
Okay, the same value. Okay, okay, got it. Just, just a second, sir. Yeah. Done. Thank you, sir, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepesh Agarwal from UTI Asset Management Company. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good evening, gentlemen. Sir, my first question is, if I see the water segment, the margins are quite healthy. But at the company level, margin is in the same threshold of 13, 13 and a half. It seems that road margins are trending downwards. What is the reason for weakness in the road margins, and is it transient in nature?
Well, still road margins are at around 30%. In overall water, it was around 15% in the second quarter, and growth was 12.8%. On an average, it is 13.45%.
Because, sir-
Road margins are within 13, 13.25 or 12.83 over there.
Okay, sir, what we see on the segmental, the water margins are up almost are higher by road by almost 400 basis points. So, as you were highlighting earlier, water margins will normalize as you scale up. So, would there be a pressure to the company level margin?
No, there should not be. See, as last time when compared to Q1, water margins now are getting stabilized. But at the same time, overall margins, there is no significant decline. So we should able to maintain the margins in the road sector also around 13%. So overall margin, maybe water may be slightly more than that, but overall margin will be-
On an average, it is 13.5.
Yeah, yeah, 13.5.
Okay. Sir, can-
Yeah, whatever is the very significant reduction in this, it's transient in nature, in the road sector, and there's nothing any concern about that.
Sure, sure. Sir, secondly, can you guide us on your diversification beyond the Jal Jeevan Mission? Have you built a separate team for bidding for metro and the rail projects? And to one of the earlier participants asked, the quantum of the projects you have participated beyond the Jal Jeevan and water. Can you quantify on this?
See, we are there. Our team is working on the other sectors also, potential sectors, where we find the synergy. As we said, metro, rail, and other core sectors of projects. With this, these projects we are pursuing, and a dedicated team is working on these opportunities. They're scanning the opportunities. And, we'll be able to share because this is a bit proprietary in nature. We don't want to disclose everything. But,
Sir, basically, sir, two, three years down the line when JJM project awarding slows down, would you think that we will have 1 or 2 more sectors which can offset that?
Yes, yes. We are hoping. We are, we are expecting.
Sure. Sir, lastly, there are a lot of state projects on the flyovers, ring roads, especially some, in Maharashtra. Would we be also participating in those projects?
Yes. We are working on it. Submitted a request for qualification application for major EPC projects by MSRDC, for aggregate value of more than INR 30,000 crore. That includes Pune Ring Road, Jalna-Nanded Greenfield Expressway, and Multimodal Corridor, Nagpur to Mumbai. We are pursuing the projects that at a state level. But normally, our preference at the state level would be the EPC, not any fund-based projects like BOT or HAM. At state level, always we look for EPC projects.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you so much. The next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good afternoon, sir. Thank you for taking my question. So my first question is on the order inflow guidance. You have given INR 10,000 crore around it, and INR 500 crore from roads and balance from non-roads. So hypothetically, if you miss the guidance this year, like last year also, we had received around INR 4,000 crore-4,500 crore of inflows. So what kind of target would you chase for FY 2025 to build your revenue growth? As you said, you are expecting growth of 10%-15% revenue, and NHAI pipeline is assuming INR 100,000 crore, where you expect within INR 50,000 crore, which is like 8% share. It seems to be a tall task. So what kind of hypothetically will you chase in terms of order inflows in FY 2025?
See, to maintain the momentum of decent growth, order book this year, we are having a say INR 10,000 crore new projects. Similarly, for the year of FY 2025, it will be around INR 12,000 crore. We'll be pursuing opportunities to secure a new business around INR 12,000 crore in FY 2025.
This INR 12,000 crore will have a mix of 80/20 in the roads and non-roads, safe to assume?
Yeah, that depends on how the opportunities will be unfolded in the non-road sector. We have to see. Because road sector, as NHAI is having plans of awarding more EPC results, so they are having a target of 12,500 km. So next year. So it roughly translates into more than 200,000 roads of new projects. So road sector, so we are more certain, but in other sectors, we have to see how the opportunities will be unfolding.
Sir, there are some projects from MoRTH in UP also. Are you targeting those EPC projects? MoRTH projects, the tenders were out last month in September or July.
We are bidding, we are bidding for that.
What will be the value, sir?
Sorry.
Total updates. So what is the value, total bids submitted in UP for these MoRTH projects?
We have submitted seven bids, six HAM and one EPC project. That total estimated value for this is around INR 6,300 crore.
This will get opened probably by, in one time?
Within 15 days, I think this will be open.
Sir, the monetization, as you said, seven projects they have achieved PCOD. So what we see is that we have invested around INR 900 crore of equity and the outstanding that is around INR 4,300 crore. So, likely, that we can receive at least INR 900 crore or at least 50% of it, by end of this year in terms of proceeds, or you said it will get spill over in Q1 2025.
See, our effort will be there to some qualified projects we close it before end of the current financial year and realize the investment, and the remaining projects in the Q1 of FY 2025.
Okay. Sir, toll, can you give us toll revenue breakup, sir, for all the projects?
Yes.
Hello?
Kanpur Highway, INR 20 crore.
Okay.
Narela, INR 14 crore, 14.25.
Sorry, which one, sir?
Narela, Narela Industrial.
Narela. Okay, Narela, okay, 14.25.
Raebareli is INR 32 crore.
That is the Annuity project.
INR 6 crore, INR 5.7 crore.
Sorry, INR 9.7 crore?
5.7, yes.
5.7. Okay. That's it from my side. Thank you and all the best, sir. Thanks a lot.
Thank you so much. The next question is from the line of Uttam Kumar Srimal from Axis Securities Limited. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir, thanks for the opportunity. So, in case of these four projects where we have signed a concession agreement, when we are expecting to get AD for all these four projects, HAM?
For all four projects, we are expecting AD before completion of the current financial year, before March 31, 2023-2024.
Okay. Okay, and sir, you spoke about competitive intensity. So how is that competitive intensity there in case of larger projects? Because, you know, in the case of lower project, there are heavy competitive intensity. But in case of larger projects, is it same or is it lower than compared to lower, lower value project?
Actually, in the projects of larger size, and that too in case of a HAM projects, where the investment need to be put, so the competition will be comparatively lesser than compared to smaller size and EPC projects.
Okay, okay, sir. That's all from my side, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you so much. The next question is from the line of Vishal Periwal from IDBI Capital. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. Sir, on this revenue guidance of 30%-50%, I mean, like, you know, just wanted to get more granular detail. With the 10% kind of growth, and that is one line item. And then second is like, you know, if we do INR 2,000 crore revenue in our water supply projects, then roughly like, you know, we have to do a flattish sort of growth in the EPC for the road side of project. But if you look at in the last two quarters, the revenue in the EPC for the road side, it has been declining anywhere between like 10%-20%. So what could stabilize this revenue decline in the second half?
Any new project that is coming up that will, if you can clarify that?
Actually, if you see the road project, the decline in the first half is more optical, because last year we were booking the toll revenue from the EPC EPE, Eastern Peripheral Expressway under our standalone financials. So that project got over last year during the first half. Even if at a consolidated level also, we were booking the revenue for the OMT projects of Kanpur highway, Kanpur, Lucknow, Ayodhya. That also got completed-
Completed.
The project vested back to NHAI in November last year. Otherwise, we don't see any significant decline in the road. But also, the roads have a typical cycle. Sometimes these projects are at a very peak, less season, where the work done will be more. Whereas, in the current financial year, the seven new projects we have started, so during the initial period, because of the low-value items like earthworks, upgrade and all, they'll be there. And going forward, when we start executing the high-value items of work... This road sector also will pick up, and there should not be any decline when compared to FY 2023.
Okay. But the revenue growth estimate that we are having, it is not dependent upon the AD for the four projects, that is not included in the order?
Yeah, we are, as of now, we are not considering those four new projects in this thing.
Okay.
If then any income is generated by the four new projects, that will be slightly slight growth in the further growth in the revenue.
Okay. Okay. Sure, sir. That's all from my side, sir. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you so much. The next question is from the line of Prem Khurana. Please go ahead, sir. Mr. Khurana, your line is unmuted.
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for taking my question, sir. Sir, I have two questions only. So one was, so we've made some announcements suggesting that you're claiming some arbitration claims from NHAI under Vivad Se Vishwas Scheme. So what is the status there? Because then there's this time limit, right? Wherein, I mean, they need to settle it by. But, we've not, I mean, had any announcement as to this effect that whether these have been approved or not. So if you would clarify on the claims that you've filed under this Vishwas, I mean, with Vivad Se Vishwas Scheme, please.
Yeah. See, as we informed to the exchanges, we raised our eligible disputes or claims under Vivad Se Vishwas in three projects. One is on our parent company, PNC, and two on our subsidiary companies, concessionaires. All three we declared, and we duly implemented to the exchanges. Now, the last date is got over just yesterday. October 31 was the last date for filing the disputes. Now, they are under process, so we expect the offer things from NHAI rolling out from November onwards. So once those offers are accepted by us, then we duly introduce to the exchanges, followed by to the industry.
Sure. Sure, sir. And so just one bookkeeping question, if you could share the total number for Bareilly -Almor a, please.
It is INR 14.25 crore, sir.
Sure, sir. Thank you. Sir, that's from my side. Thank you.
Thank you so much. Well, ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question. I now hand the call over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you everyone for your participation in our earnings call. We wish everyone have a safe and happy Diwali, as well as a prosperous New Year. In case further queries, you may get in touch with the Strategic Growth Advisors, our investor relations advisors, or feel free to get in touch with us. Thank you very much.
Thank you. On behalf of Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.