Good morning, everybody. Thank you for joining us for the Q1 FY 2022 post result virtual meeting of Power Grid Corporation of India Limited. On behalf of ICICI Securities, we would like to welcome the Power Grid senior management led by Mr. K. Sreekant, CMD. Thank you, sir, for sparing your time. From the management, along with CMD, sir, we've got Mrs. Seema Gupta, Director, Operations; Mr. V.K. Singh, Director, Personnel ; Mr. M. Taj Mukarrum, Director, Finance and CFO; and Mr. Abhay Choudhary, Director, Projects. I would like to hand over the floor to CMD, sir, who will give a detailed presentation, post which we will have a Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. A very good morning. I'll just start with a brief presentation on the Q1 results for FY 2022. Is the presentation visible?
Yes, sir.
Thank you. We will be covering the performance highlight, works in hand. As of 30th June, Power Grid has grown to have 168,457 circuit kilometers, 1,310 and 440,310 MVA transformation capacity at 259 substations. The inter-regional transfer capacity has grown to 90,090 MW, roughly 85% of India's inter-regional capacity. Market cap has grown to INR 123,000 crore. We are the third largest CPSE in terms of gross block. Briefly, in terms of the project execution, this quarter, we have done CapEx of more than INR 1,100 crore and capitalization of INR 5,642 crore on a consolidated basis. Some of the key projects which got completed, transmission lines, 1,716 circuit kilometers. Ajmer-Phagi, this is a TBCB project completed. Jigmeling-Alipurduar, this is a cross-border interconnection with Bhutan for evacuation of Mangdechhu Hydrop ower. This has been completed. Wardha-Aurangabad, long-standing line.
This is the first 1,200 kV line, which is, of course, charged initially at 400 kV. Sitamarhi-Motihari, Sitamarhi-Darbhanga, two lines under our Power Grid Mithilanchal TBCB project. These have been completed. Baharampur-Bheramara Circuit-3 or second double circuit line. This is the link to Bangladesh. Pugalur-Thrissur HVDC, the monopole one has been completed. With this, the entire VSC system of 2,000 MW has been completed. We added one substation, 420 kV at Sitamarhi under the Mithilanchal, and various ICTs have been added across the country for about 9,400 MVA. Coming to the operational performance, availability has been 99.77% in this quarter, above the 99-point full incentive threshold. Trippings, flat. We had faced a couple of cyclones in this period, both on the East Coast as well as the West Coast, and came out unstuck. There has been significant improvement in our preparedness for these cyclones.
Also, we have developed an app in-house for the patrolling. So far, we have been using third-party apps. Now the app has been developed in-house. It will provide greater inputs and also facilitate data analytics going forward. Coming to the financial performance, I'm sure you have seen the results and made an analysis completely. Income has grown by about 9% on a consolidated basis to INR 10,392 crores, up from INR 9,817 crores. PAT is INR 5,998 crores. This includes the profit we have made on InvIT, which I'll show on the slide next. Excluding the exceptional item, that is primarily the InvIT in the current year and the rebate which we gave last year. If we do exclude these two exceptional items on a comparable basis, profits are up to INR 3,341 crores from INR 2,935 crores on a consolidated basis.
This is a snapshot of the financials of the InvIT as far as Power Grid is concerned. We have sold 74% equity holding in five SPVs. These SPVs were having 3,698 circuit kilometers and 6,630 MVA and three substations. Gross block was INR 7,239 crores. Equity deployed was INR 1,213 crores for the 100%. The trust was valued INR 9,100 crores for the 74% equity. It had a component of fresh issue, INR 4,993 crores. This is primarily the debt provided by Power Grid to the SPVs.
For the equity we transferred, 74%, we received INR 4,107 crores, partly by way of units and partly by way of cash. 15% of the post-listed units, that is about INR 1,350 crores, we had INR 1,365 crores of units we retained. The rest we offloaded. The 74% stake was about INR 898 crores, expenses about INR 40 crores. We recognized a profit of INR 3,170 crores this quarter.
These are the financials. Revenue up 9%. We see a telecom dip of 42% in this. This is primarily because of a settlement we made with the BSNL. We had contracts which were not renewed since 2018, 2019. 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021. These three years, we had to agree on a pricing and enter into a settlement that resulted in a rebate being offered about INR 86 crores. That is the reason for this dip in the telecom revenue. Other income reduction is mainly on account of surcharge. Operating expenses commensurate with the revenue growth. Reduction in interest because of debt repayment and reduction in the working capital borrowings as well. The exceptional item is shown. This is primarily this year on account of the profit from the InvIT, and last year it is from the rebate we offered to the customers.
Our consolidated results also are on the same lines. There is nothing different here. Gross block is today, on a consolidated basis, INR 2,47,421 crores. Capital work in progress, INR 21,000 crores. INR 1,40,000 debt on the books, INR 70,139 net worth. EPS is INR 8.60. This includes the one-time InvIT profit. Book value per share is INR 109. Return on net worth is again inclusive of the profit from shares, the InvIT. Some of the inputs you always ask, we try to put it.
Surcharge, as you can see, has come down from INR 265 last year to INR 55 crores on the back of payments as well as the reduction in the rate of surcharge. Incentive income is more or less flat. Income from subsidiaries, INR 231 crores. Dividend. There is nothing significant in terms of receivables. We have INR 7,619 crores. I have a separate slide on receivables, which we'll be talking about.
The other two segments besides transmission, telecom income was INR 97 crore. As I mentioned, INR 86 crore, we had to offer rebate to BSNL for the past three years, to settle the outstandings and the issues with them. Network availability, 99.99%. We received the CERC approval for formation of telecom as a separate subsidiary. We are going to do it in the current quarter. Consultancy income has picked up a bit on the back of our Northeast contract, which we are doing for the government for NERPSIP projects. The telecom network, I'm very happy to share that we have added roughly 6,300 km of OPGW from DVC as well as West Bengal. This adds to our network and provides us greater access in the eastern states of West Bengal and Jharkhand. Commercial performance. Last year, we had, at the end of June, INR 8,243 crore.
We were facing the issue of lockdown and COVID, therefore, the outstandings were much higher this year. In March, because of Atmanirbhar Bharat as well as the March collection buoyancy, receivables came down to INR 3,583 crore. End of June 2021, we have again gone up to INR 7,080 crore. We had the second wave. Therefore, collections were much lower in the month of April and May. June, they have picked up, July we expect again to pick up. We are taking action in terms of notices for [inaudible] pursuance. We hope to see settlement, particularly from Uttar Pradesh and J&K, where we have large dues, they are expecting some loans from PFC, REC, this is expected to be cleared shortly. Works in hand today, they are about INR 35,000 crore. Normal, our RTM projects are about INR 18,000 crore and TBCB INR 16,800 crore.
Intrastate transmission network works which are coming up, INR 9,300. In the intrastate, INR 1,500 crore, primarily in the state of UP. There are few projects in the intrastate. Besides these, I would also like to talk about the Distributed distribution package, reform package, which has been announced by the government, where an outlay of INR 3 lakh crore, INR 3 lakh 3,000 crore is expected. In that, the GBS support is of the order of INR 96,000 or so. There is an opportunity for the investment of INR 2 lakh crore to come from either the state utilities or the private sector or the CPSUs. This has distribution infrastructure augmentation, roughly INR 1 lakh 50,000 odd crore, and smart metering about another INR one and a half lakhs. We are looking at opportunities in this segment.
We have identified a few areas where we can participate along with the DISCOMs, or the state utilities in strengthening their infrastructure or augmenting the meters work, and take it up with them. This quarter, we are going to approach several of these state utilities and offer our services to support them in making the investment, also in the consultancy or project implementation. Our focus will be to support them through our low-cost funding options.
Finally, happy to share that this year we have been ranked 68th among the India's top 100 best companies to work by the Great Place to Work Institute. Last year, our rank was outside of this 100 and very happy to share that this year we have improved by more than 30 positions. We are also recognized one of the best employers among Nation Builders. I conclude my presentation here and would be happy to take up your questions. Thank you.
Thank you, sir, for the detailed presentation. We will now begin the Q&A session. Divya from ICICI will be coordinating along with us. Thank you. Divya, over to you.
Thank you, Rahul. We take first question from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Good morning, sir. Am I audible?
Yeah.
Yes.
Please go ahead.
Thank you for the detailed presentation, and congratulations on good set of numbers. My first question is, sir, on the P&L, is the tax impact of gains booked on InvIT is around 20% of the INR 32 billion, which has been booked roughly INR 8 billion. Is this number right?
The tax impact is only on the units which have been sold, and we have provided about INR 350 crores on account of tax for this.
INR 3.5 billion is the tax impact, am I right?
No. Yeah, INR 3.5 billion on account of the InvIT.
Understood, sir. I said the income from the InvIT will get booked here as other income. Is that understanding right? We haven't booked anything in the Q1, but as we go forward in Q2, it will come as a part of other income. Is that understanding right?
No, we have booked everything in Q1. We have disclosed it as extraordinary item in the P&L.
No, I'm asking that, as we go forward, the dividend from InvIT, will that get booked as part of the other income? Or the entire income of the InvIT will be booked as an associate income in our P&L?
No, it will be booked as other income as and when the dividend is received.
Yeah. Understood, sir. Last one. The TBCB bidding has been on the lower side in, I think, the past 12 months, except for some bidding which happened in the March or let's say, January, February. How do you see going forward in the next 12 months or the eight months? How is the activity right now?
As I have shown, about INR 9,000 crores of projects are currently under close to bidding. A few schemes have been notified by the government recently. Depending upon the progress in the RE, these will be taken up.
Is there something on the intrastate which is happening, which you believe there is some momentum?
In the intrastate, there is a momentum. There is a scheme for Mohanlalganj transmission network of UP. I think UP is the one where we are seeing some movement.
Understood, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
All the best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Seetharaman R. from Spark Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello. Thank you. [inaudible] Hello.
Yeah, you're not audible, sir.
Hello. Sir, is it audible now?
Yeah.
Okay. On the TBCB pipeline that you mentioned, which is close to INR 9,300 crore, can you give the details of the projects, please?
Yeah. These are mainly for the RE projects in Rajasthan and Gujarat.
Okay. On the InvIT sale, the sale of five assets. We see that out of the entire enterprise value of INR 9,000 crore, close to INR 5,000 crore is debt and close to INR 4,000 crore is the equity part of it. What was the book value of this particular equity, the set of five assets that you sold?
The equity deployed was about INR 1,200 crores, but the 74%, it was INR 897 crores.
Yes. Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Akhilesh Bhandari from ICICI Pru MF. Akhilesh, please go ahead.
Any particular timeline for further monetization of the TBCB subsidiaries which you have in mind?
We have no plan to monetize any further in the current financial year. Next financial year, again, similar asset value is likely to be monetized. The monetization will also take into account the TSA conditions and completion of assets. So in fiscal 2022/2023, we can do maybe another INR 7,000 crores, INR 7,500 crores of monetization. Overall, we are targeting, say, about INR 7,500 crores next fiscal and then INR 15,000 crores for the next two years each year.
Okay. Sir, you mentioned that the collection rate has been improving sequentially. Any number which you can put for June and July? What was the collection against the billing?
June and July. July, let me just give that.
130%.[crosstalk]
July is about 130%. June was close to 90%.
90%.
Okay. Sir, any update on the Leh Ladakh project? Last quarter, your presentation had a slide on it, but this quarter there is no slide on it. Any further updates on that?
I thought I'll give the slide when it is allotted to us, because right now I can only show a file movement. The DPR has been submitted, and it is in the consideration of the ministry.
Okay.
The preliminary thoughts are veering towards giving it to Power Grid under the RTM route. Those discussions are still on.
Got it.
There is no slide, does not mean it is out of consideration. It is still there very much.
Yes. Sir, on the system strengthening scheme, any further thoughts on, you mentioned a couple of things about helping the DISCOMs on a consultancy basis as well. Would you be looking to operate the smart metering assets also, or that is something which is not under consideration?
It is under consideration. In smart metering, there is a requirement of big investment. The government is going to provide 7.5%-15%, depending on the state, subsidy for the smart metering infrastructure, and balance is supposed to be through kind of TOTEX model where the developer of the utility brings the money. That is where one option we are looking at it. That is really under consideration for increasing our investment program.
Got it. Thank you, sir. Thanks.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sumit Kishore. Please go ahead.
Good morning, sir. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. My first question is, the INR 50 billion of cash that was received in lieu of the debt, which was associated with the five TBCB assets. I mean, that is sitting on your books, because I see that debt has not been paid down as I had expected. What do you intend to do with the cash? Can you basically also help us, give us a sense of the timeline for the special dividend that will come from the overall gain on the InvIT and the capital freed up. You had made it clear that you will not keep any extra cash. That is my first question.
Yeah, you're right. The funds will be utilized for the current year's CapEx, definitely we will make a dividend payout. The dividend payout, we will do one final dividend after the AGM.
Yeah.
Last year we did two interim dividends. Similar plan we have for the current year as well.
Dividend will be paid in two phases. Two parts.
Two interim dividends last year we did. I expect similar to what we got this year as well. Yes.
Okay, okay. The second question is interesting that you mentioned the INR 3 trillion package and the opportunity for Power Grid. It is very important to understand that incremental capital allocation for Power Grid will make similar returns that you make in your RTM or the TBCB IRRs that you expect. Could you throw some light. You mentioned you will give loans to states to execute this better. I want to clearly understand what is the return in the business model. We would not appreciate any dilution of returns.
Yeah. One, we do not intend to provide loans. We intend to provide investment, either as equity or maybe depending on the structuring, it can be a kind of a leasing model, in which case it will be similar to a loan, you may say so. That is one. Number two, we will look for similar returns, but I'm very sure that the RTM returns, which we are getting, we can get only on the equity component. We cannot get on the entire investment into these assets.
Because if we say that we will put on a rough estimate, about 40% of the funds these state utilities will have to find out on their own. If we say the entire money will be given as equity at 15.5%, nobody will come to us. They will find alternate funding much cheaper. We have to give them something which is attractive and which also makes sense to us in terms of the equity deployed.
In short, you are saying what will be the return on equity? What is the threshold for deploying capital, equity capital?
Equity capital, I think anything above 14% should be fine.
Yes, 14% is fine. Finally, my last question is, you mentioned the share of subsidiary profits for the quarter. Just wanted to understand, given five significant TBCB subsidiaries are now not getting consolidated for 74% stake, at least for half the quarter, the extent of decline in the TBCB profit that I was expecting on a quarter-on-quarter basis was not visible. What are we missing here? Or have the other TBCB subsidiaries which are operational contributed a very large portion of profit?
Okay. One of the subsidiaries-
Yeah.
One of the subsidiaries which was in loss has turned around. We did some financial restructuring there. It has come out to be profit.
What is the extent of the swing?
That is about INR 20, INR 25, INR 20, INR 22, INR 23 crores.
Of profit versus loss of how much earlier?
No. I'm asking the net impact.
Net impact. Which is this subsidiary, sir?
This is POWERGRID NM Transmission Limited.
Okay.
We commissioned the Manipur-Jiribam system, which added to the profit. Mithilanchal, it added a little bit. Jawaharpur Firozabad Transmission System, the first intrastate, it added. Jaypee, which was our POWERGRID Himachal Transmission Limited, which was a joint venture, is now a subsidiary, so it added to the consolidated profits.
Okay.
So-
What is the total-
These are additions.
Sorry. Please continue.
These are additions to the companies as well as turnaround of some of the companies also.
Got it. Just a bookkeeping point. What is the total annual levelized transmission charge for all the operational TBCB subsidiaries on Power Grid's books now, excluding the five which have been transferred?
I'll just give you INR 100. It must be around INR 1,300 crores.
Okay. Thank you so much, sir. Wish you all the best.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Ajinkya Bhat. Ajinkya, please go ahead.
Hi. Good morning, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, two questions on P&L part. The sequential increase in interest expense, is that on account of forex? Considering that you have roughly, I think about INR 43,000 crores of forex debt on the books. Is that what is leading to the sequential increase?
Sequential increase?
Yeah. Compared to the March quarter, the interest expense has gone up.
March quarter, interest expense has gone up primarily because of our exchange rate variation.
Yeah. Okay. Forex impact. Sir, second question. The other income on a sequential basis has gone down. Is it predominantly because of the transfer of TBCB subsidiaries to the InvIT? If I remember correctly, in 4Q conference call, you had mentioned that you had collected about 95% of PAT of those TBCB subsidiaries as dividend i n FY 2021.
It has nothing to do with the InvIT. It is because of reduction in surcharge.
Okay.
Primarily because of reduction in surcharge.
Okay. Sir, dividend income in 4Q, what was the dividend income from subsidiaries in 4Q versus 3Q?
You are right. Last quarter, March quarter, we received INR 133 crores more on account of dividend, which is not there, plus INR 86 crores reduction in surcharge. These are the two major causes of reduction in other income sequentially.
Yeah. Understood. Thank you so much, sir. That's it from my side.
Thank you. We would request participants who have asked their questions and have no further questions to put their hand down, so that we can manage the question queue better. Next question is from the line of Puneet Gulati. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you so much. My first question is on the new support that you are likely to give to distribution companies. Would you need to build any further capabilities, add to team or processes for that? Or is the company prepared to give this sort of support to distributors?
We have been working in the distribution space, in constructing the distribution infrastructure. We have a team, and the project execution capabilities in terms of distribution infrastructure. We also have a team which has been designing and providing consultancy in the smart metering and smart grid systems. We are now restructuring ourselves to organize all this into one single package and provide the services to the distribution entities. Other than actual implementation of these systems, in any case, we have to buy, integrate, and provide them. We have the capabilities required for the services or the augmentation of network, and we say it's in the New Distribution Scheme.
There might also be a need for credit assessment here. Is that also-
Absolutely. The credit assessment has to be done by us in terms of where to put the money, because it is very paradoxical. The funds are mostly required by the utilities which are not that healthy financially. Opportunity is there, so we have to choose among them the ones which are better and have some kind of a payment security mechanism to go for this.
Okay. Will your tripartite work there as well in these?
If it is on the balance sheet of Power Grid, perhaps it will work, because it talks of outstanding dues. It may work. It is not tested.
Okay, understood. My second question is on the balance 26% stake that you still hold in some of the TBCBs you spent into InvIT. What is the timeline for transfer for those?
January 2024.
Sorry, January 2024?
February 2022 to January 2024, progressively, the five assets will be handed off.
Okay.
There are five companies with different TSA conditions and the lock-in period.
Yeah. Okay, understood. That's all. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Apoorva Bahadur from Investec. Apurva, please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you.
Hi.
Sir, wanted to understand on the smart metering piece, do you intend to also provide the back end and the O&M services here or just the capital support?
We will provide the investment for the entire back end as well as the metering infrastructure. The day-to-day operations will be mostly carried out by the utility or sometimes by the service provider, this contractor, because they do the AMC support.
Okay. Sir, the IT system needs to be created on the back end on data collection and analytics, basically?
Yeah.
That will be done by us?
I think we'll be only doing the system design. The actual implementation, we have to catch hold of the IT service providers. [inaudible]
Actually, we are working on various models, and as we said, that our main contribution would be designing, then facilitating those implementation through the contractors.
Okay. Got it, ma'am. Sir, secondly, wanted to understand, a lot of tenders are being floated around power storage solutions on utility scale. Do we see some opportunity for Power Grid over there as well that we can deploy capital?
Definitely. For example, we have tweaked the DPR of the Leh system to include a battery component there, a storage component, which will increase the utilization of the transmission line and also provide more around-the-clock kind of a power. That is one of the things which has been incorporated into the DPR. Depending on the progress of the RE addition and progress of this network, the storage system can be taken up few years down the line. We are also now putting more focus on the storage solutions. Internally, we are creating a team to look at the storage, because going forward, there will be fungibility between transmission and storage, and that is an opportunity Power Grid should be in a position to capitalize.
Sir, just wanted to understand on this Leh DPR front. For example, what sort of capital cost can we expect in storage, say, for 1 MW hour?
Capital cost in the first phase, transmission system for 5 GW will be of the order of INR 21,000 crores-INR 22,000 crores. Okay?
[inaudible] Okay.
This is not having any storage component. Okay? There will be a significant subsidy or a grant component in this, because otherwise the tariffs will not be viable. On top of it, there is a plan to develop storage, a big storage, which can cater to, say, another 8 GW of installed capacity. It will be hybrid wind and solar. Idea is to increase the utilization of this transmission system and provide more continuous or a stable power play for the DISCOMs.
Makes sense. Sir, just one last question, if I may ask, and please pardon my ignorance, but why exactly are we forming a telecom subsidiary? What's the requirement for this?
There is no specific requirement. We want to insulate ourselves from another kind of demand which happened last time. Where the overall income was considered as part of the revenue and there were demands, there was a lot of upheaval. We want to avoid that and give it more focus and make it a bigger push, because this is an area we see a significant opportunity to increase our non-transmission revenue. Going forward, there will be more digitalization, there will be need for more network services, and that is what we want to capitalize through this. Right now it is around, say, INR 700, INR 800. Maybe this year we will target around INR 900 to INR 1,000 crores of revenue from telecom. We want to push it up, because that is one possibility which we see for growth.
No immediate plans for monetizing this?
No immediate plan to monetize it.
Right.
Not immediately, no.
Okay, great, sir. Thanks a lot. All the way best.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aniket Mittal from Motilal Oswal. Aniket, please go ahead.
Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, just on this investment in the distribution part or for distribution entities, I think you mentioned that largely this would just involve providing and designing consultancy. Sir, what would be the capital investment that you're looking over here over the next, let's say, couple of years?
As I mentioned in my initial remarks, the scheme envisages an outlay of INR 3,03,000 crores. The GBS, that is the funds to be provided by the government are INR 95,000 crores or INR 93,000 crores. Roughly there is a gap of about INR 2 lakh crores, you can say INR 2,10,000. That is the opportunity set which is available. We want to go there and put money. Even if we get, say, 10%, 15%, it is still a big number, 20%-30% of investment potential that is there. That is what we are going to target. In the next two, three months, our endeavor will be to meet the potential DISCOMs and engage with them and see what can come out of this.
Sir, largely we're still engaging with them. Just to understand, you mentioned that apart from the consultancy work, is when you look to add in some other services and package that to the DISCOM. Just to get more clarity, what would these other services be apart from consultancy?
No, consultancy. See, we can offer consultancy, but that will be very small and not sustainable. It is one-time kind of revenue. The project is executed, finished. We are looking, because, see, the investment requirement being INR 2 lakh crore, where will the DISCOMs get this money? Either they have to get money from the REC, PFC, or other financial institutions. Their own accruals are not that much. We are going to provide them the technical solution as well as the investment support so that there is a win-win opportunity for them as well as for us as an alternate investment avenue.
While doing this, we will be conscious of the kind of returns as one of the earlier questioners has made, and also the credit quality of the consumer, what kind of payment security. These have to be addressed as a package. We have the wherewithal, we have the capability to deliver systems to strengthen the distribution infrastructure, to provide them the smart metering solutions.
All right. Sure. My next question is actually on the execution front. Just to understand, there's obviously been the issue of the Great Indian Bustard that's been an overhang. I think recently, CERC has also called up some of your projects in the Rajasthan scheme that you won recently. I just wanted your comment. Do you see any execution risk now for some of the projects that you won on TBCB? In terms of timeline, do you see those can possibly be extended now?
What did you say about CERC? That bit I could not understand.
I think there was a hearing in the CERC in which they have called out, I think, three of your projects which you won in Rajasthan last year. If I'm not mistaken, I think those would be Fatehgarh- Bhadla, the Aligarh one, and the Sikar one as well. With respect to the Great Indian Bustard being an issue with that.
Okay. Let me address this Great Indian Bustard issue. There are about 150 of the GIB endangered species. In that hearing, the Supreme Court said low voltage transmission lines in the priority and potential areas have to be underground wherever technically feasible. Low voltage has to be done, high voltage, if technically feasible. There is no unanimity on what is a low voltage. There is unanimity that 400 kV and 765 kV are high voltage and extra high voltage. There is no doubt about that. These voltages levels, you cannot underground the transmission lines. Technically, it is not feasible. As far as our projects are concerned, we have about six odd lines of the 400 kV and few more in the 765 kV.
As far as our system is concerned, there is no issue with respect to this GIB. Second, all our lines and substations are in the potential area, not in the priority area. If we talk of the priority and potential areas, the size is humongous. It is about 22,000 acres in the priority and another 80,000 acres in the potential. These are huge tracts of land or areas we are talking about. The issue is more, as I understand, with the solar developers, because for them to bring the power from their plant to the loading station, undergrounding could be an issue, and there is an impact financially. There are discussions around this, and the government is contemplating to take up with the Supreme Court appropriately to resolve this. There is also a deliberation that 33 kV or even lower voltage, which will be the threshold for undergrounding.
Okay. In terms of our under construction TBC projects, particularly in Rajasthan, there's no execution risk right now in terms of timeline as well?
There is no execution risk because even if we read the Supreme Court order, it says that where in case of high voltage lines, it is not technically feasible. There is a committee to which reference has to be made, and the committee has to be satisfied, and they will permit your undergrounding. Nowhere in the world a 765 kV line is underground, and 400 kV also only for short distances, beyond which it is not feasible. It is not possible for us to build those lines, so we don't see any issue as such.
Okay, sure. [crosstalk]
Another matter is that these lines are to cater to the solar generation. Right? If the solar generators are delayed or if there is any issue there, we also need to defer our investment and match ourselves with that. All in all, there is activity at the government level to resolve this issue, and we hope to come out of this, for the entire RE sector and the transmission sector, sooner than later for this.
Sure. Maybe one last question, if I may. Just on the quarterly numbers. If I have a look, in numbers, I think you reported for adjusted PAT, there's almost an INR 4 billion increase on a year-over-year basis, and that is despite a lower surcharge income and the TBCB profits going off. I'm just trying to understand. I mean, the growth on a PAT level seems extremely high despite the lower late payment surcharge. Am I missing out something away? Is there something additional that's coming?
No, there's nothing to miss out. We have received many orders. There is an increase on account of differential interest between final tariff and provisional tariff. That is about INR 230 crores, which is a plus. Okay? That can be a one-off number.
Okay.
These things come out every quarter. In the entire cycle of our regulatory business, something or other crops up. This quarter, this is the number which is there.
It's around INR 230 crores of additional income this time.
Yeah, INR 230 crores of income from interest on the tariff differential. Yes.
This number, would this be continued in nature? Would some portion of this will continue to gain in the next quarters as well?
Next quarter, another set of assets may give similar number, they may not give. I cannot say that this is a continuous numbers. Whenever a true-up happens, this comes.
Got that. Understood. Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. In interest of time, I would request participants to restrict their questions to max two. If you have any further questions, you can get back in queue, and if time permits, we'll take your questions. Next question is from the line of Dhruv Muchhal from HDFC Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
What, sir? My question was related to what Aniket asked. This INR 230 crore is over and above the INR 141 crore that you have disclosed in the notes to accounts, which is the prior period item, is it?
It is interest on account of the interest differential. Yes.
If you can please, in the PPT, you have started disclosing a lot of numbers. If you can even give us this number, because this number can be a bit volatile on a quarterly basis, so this will help us.
Okay. We'll take it up from next quarter onwards.
Sure. Thank you so much, sir. Sir, one question was on the metering thing. If I understand correctly, what you're saying is you will be a system integrator. You will build the tenders which probably the government calls for smart meters. You will provide the capital for deployment of these smart meters and the implementation of this, probably you will hire IT consultants, probably the executioners, and recover the amount on a monthly basis through the OPEX scheme. Is that the plan? What you're thinking of?
Yeah. Broadly, you are right.
Got it. Basically, you would be participating in upcoming smart meter tenders.
No. Okay, you can say we can participate there, but our idea is to more partner with the DISCOMs and engage with them, maybe through a joint venture or through some other arrangement which is acceptable to them.
Okay. In that case, they will do all the tendering, and once the meters are procured, you will implement them. They will transfer to you will implement them, get the IT and everything done, and fund for the capital cost, and recover your capital through the annuity payments that you get from the DISCOM.
Yeah. Broadly it is that we will invest and get annuity payments. How much we will be involved in design, how much in all that, is all to be discussed and finalized.
Sure, sir. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Anuj Upadhyay from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Am I audible?
Yeah.
Okay. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Sir, a few questions. One is on the key projects which we expect to commission in the current fiscal and the project cost, if you can mention the same.
The key-
In terms of the process.
Yeah. The key projects which we complete are the balance one pole of the HVDC Raigarh-Pugalur system. In that system, one AC line and one pole are pending, 1,500 MW plus one line. The pole is almost ready. Only that line has to be ready. The line we are having now in single-digit stringing work, hopefully we should be able to do in this quarter and commission this whole system. This is number one. Few transmission systems in Rajasthan, Bhadla-Fatehgarh II system, Khetri system, Bhuj in Gujarat. These are major Mithilanchal transmission, which has only now one more substation to be commissioned. That is there. In Jeerat, we have a substation, a 765 kV substation, and a line, Jeerat-Subhasgram line. These are the major ones which we expect besides the various strengthening systems.
Overall CapEx in the current financial year, we are targeting something of the region of, say, INR 15,000+.
Okay, sir.
We have allocated some finances. Yeah.
Okay. INR 9,300 crores of upcoming opportunity in TBCB projects, any timeline when this?
Yeah. Some of them have already been announced. For example, the Gujarat one is under bidding. Rajasthan ones, they are all expected, we have to submit the bids and all very quickly, maybe in the month of August and September.
Yeah. Broadly over next six months of this, things should come on flow.
In the next six months, the decision will be made about that.
Got it, sir.
All right.
If I just broad my coverage area for next two to three years, what kind of opportunity do we expect coming up from the transmission plan through the TBCB routes, sir? Depending upon the current pace at which the renewable projects are getting.
Let me put it this way. Whether TBCB or not TBCB, the opportunity set which is there and which is under serious consideration or which is potential is, one, the Leh transmission system. Two, the Khawda transmission system, where a 27 GW of RE capacity is expected to be added. A 20 GW of RE in Rajasthan. These are the three key systems where there will be significant investment in the transmission. This is the opportunity set which will crop up in the next, say, two, three years.
Can you quantify it, sir? The project cost or the total opportunity in value terms.
It can be around INR 40,000 crores, roughly. Again, this is a matter of debate because if there is more storage, then there will be less transmission. All these permutation combinations are evolving. If we look at it as a pure transmission play, then maybe plus INR 40,000 crores.
Intra-state.
Intrastate is a totally different segment. Another point I would like to share is that there has been a review or there has been a study on the intrastate transmission systems and one of the recommendations which has been accepted by the government is that the 33 kV system, which is currently as part of the distribution segment, be made a part of the transmission segment so that it is given more attention and strengthening can be made. There the government is looking to Power Grid to support the utilities through joint ventures so that their transmission network is augmented and efficiencies are brought in. This is another opportunity set which we are working on.
Okay. Any circles where you have already discussed with the DISCOM on this front or it's pretty near there?
This is very early stages. The report has been accepted only last month. Communications are going from the ministry to the utilities, to follow this practice. It is too early. Since you are talking of a time horizon of, say, next two, three years, I thought this is another point which has the potential.
Thank you, sir. Lastly on the distribution opportunity.
Come back in queue.
Okay, fine. Thank you.
I'm sorry for the interruption. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Swarnim Maheshwari from Edelweiss. Swarnim, please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Good morning, sir. Sir, my first question is on NM transmission. If you look at it, there were some cost overruns, and in this quarter, you mentioned that there is a financial kind of a turnaround where you have reported INR 25 crores. What is it? Is it just related to financial restructuring? It is not that big a project where financial restructuring could completely change it. Have you received the tariff order on that for the cost overruns?
No, the tariff order is not there. We are still engaged with the CERC. The petition is before them. I think it is listed for hearing shortly, it will be. That will give the true benefit of our additional cost. What we have done is mostly to do with financial restructuring, because due to high leverage, it was getting into losses and all that. That has been addressed. Now both elements are in operation, the issue of part element not getting tariff is also addressed. The bigger question which you have raised, the cost overrun, whether it has been compensated, no, it is not yet. That petition is yet to be disposed.
When do we expect that, sir? Because it's pending for a long time now.
This financial year.
Okay. Fair enough. Sir, my second question is on the TBCB projects that we intend to monetize in FY 2023, 2024, 2025. What is the mode of the monetization? Is it going to be a normal transfer from PGCIL to PG InvIT? Because I really doubt if that is feasible, we being a CPSE company. Will there be some sort of a bidding or how is it going to be? Some color on that.
That is to be yet decided. There is another catch now that the asset transfer, I think, may not happen. For example, in the first set, we have transferred the entire holding there for the life. Here, maybe for a part of the period, we may transfer only the revenue. These are all things which have had to be evolved based on the National Monetisation Pipeline which is expected to come out. That will provide some guidance. That's why I said in the current fiscal, we don't expect to do any more. It will be the next fiscal, we have enough time to address all these questions.
Okay, sir. No, thank you so much. All the best.
Thank you.
Sir, we've got two more questions and then a couple of questions on chat, if you allow us 10 more minutes. Is it okay?
Yeah, please go ahead.
Okay. The next question is from Bharani from Spark Capital. Bharani, you can go ahead please.
Right. Thank you. I have just one question. The fve TBCB assets transferred to the InvIT, can you give me the final construction cost of these projects?
Around INR 7,300 crores was the gross block.
Okay. Why I'm asking this is, if I calculate the equity, which you mentioned earlier as INR 1,200 crore inputted in these assets, over INR 7,300 comes at 16% of the overall cost. Is that right?
Yeah, that is fine.
Okay. Just wanted to clarify, because we usually infuse around 30%, so just wanted to check that. Thank you.
These are our TBCB assets.
Correct. Just wanted to check that. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Bharani. The next question is from Subhadip Mitra from JM Financial.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is with regard to the Leh project. As you mentioned that you are looking at a possibility of that coming on a nomination.
Sorry, your voice is not clear.
Am I audible now?
Yeah.
Yeah. On the Leh project, you mentioned that there is a chance that it might come on nomination basis to PGCIL.
Yeah, go ahead.
What is the expected cost of this project? If it comes to PGCIL, how much addition do you see to your work in hand?
The project is expected in the first phase of 5 GW transmission system, roughly INR 21,000 crore. There will be a component of grant in it. Until it is allotted to us, it will be difficult to put a number.
Okay. Understood. Thank you.
The next question is from Girish Achhipalia from Morgan Stanley. Girish, you can go ahead, please.
Hi, sir. Sir, while things are on drawing board, just wanted to Understanding that this marketing project that you would probably enter into some kind of contracts with the states.
Yes.
Total capital employed it will be high. Secondly, in terms of tariff recognition, would it be fair to assume that this would be recovered over a 10-year period on your participation in these kind of projects?
The assets, they can have a life of around, say, 7-10 years. That will be more appropriate. If you reduce it too much, the per month tariffs will go up. We can expect 7-10 year kind of a time horizon for this investment to recover the costs.
What kind of capital employed can you, I mean, any ballpark number here that you can think of your balance sheet that you are willing to invest, both as equity and debt?
There is no constraint as far as we are concerned. It is the opportunity set, which is the constraint. How many DISCOMs who are reasonably good paymasters are willing to accept our offer and get into it. From our side, there is no constraint in terms of how much we can allocate, but it is from the recipient side, I see the difficulty.
Thank you, sir.
Sir, thank you so much. We’ve got a couple of questions on the chat, I’ll just ask them. Sir, the first question asked is that, can you give us a CapEx and capitalization guidance for FY 2022 and FY 2023, please?
FY 2022, our CapEx is INR 7,500 crore. We expect to cross that. The capitalization, as I mentioned, will be around INR 15,000 crore. FY 2023, we can take similar.
The FY 2023?
2023 CapEx will be around similar numbers, INR 7,500-INR 10,000. We are yet to finalize it. Our capitalization will also be around, say, INR 12,000 crore-INR 15,000 crore.
Sure, sir. Sir, the second question is the level of competitive intensity in the TBCB bids as we seen many new entrants coming in. Can you elaborate something on the market share you are targeting?
No, there is nothing to tell. Every project we target to win, it depends on the competition and how far we are willing to reach. Competitive intensity is more or less same. I don't say it has increased any significant fashion, but there have not been many bids in the recent past, so it is difficult to say. The next set of bids will determine how the market is moving.
Sure, sir. Sir, any upcoming cross-border projects that you're looking at?
One project which is there in discussions is, it is not exactly a cross-border, it is the Katihar to Bornagar via Bangladesh. This is one project which has been given to us. It has about INR 3,500 crore kind of investment, and it is to be taken up. Other is the link with Nepal, New Butwal to Gorakhpur. That is another line is going to come up. These are the two transmission lines which are there, where there is more visibility.
Sir, are these a part of the INR 35,000 crores of work in hand?
Katihar-Parbotipur is a part of it, but not the other one.
Okay. Sir, one of the questions is, can Africa or global projects revive CapEx for PGCIL's international business?
We are looking at, with Africa50, an opportunity for investment in Kenya.
Okay. Any size that you're-
I think the total investment of that project will be about $150 million-$200 million. Of that, how much will be the debt and equity and all, those are yet to be decided. These are two transmission lines and some substations in Kenya.
Right. Sir, one of the question is that, what is your dividend outlook, given that you elaborated asset monetization schedule? Any thoughts on that?
Yeah. Dividend will be better than last year. There were two interim dividends last year, so we would definitely maintain that kind of a cash flow. Final dividend, which anyway we'll pay after this
Right. Right. Right, sir. Sir, the last question I would like to take from the chat is, what is Power Grid's addressable share for distribution CapEx of INR 3 lakh crores, and any update on the Leh-Srinagar project?
To answer both the questions, Rahul.
Yes. I think we are through with all the questions. Mohit, do you have any last question? Your hand is still up, then we can take your questions. Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital.
Oh, no.
I think, sir, he's not responding.
I think we lost Rahul's audio, sir. I'll take over. Thank you so much for your time and detailed presentation, and patiently answering all the questions. We would like to thank all the participants as well, for attending the call today. Sir, any last comments that you would like to give?
No, nothing. Thank you so much. We look forward to your support. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, sir.
You can now disconnect the call.
Thank you.