Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Hitachi Energy India Limited Q3 FY 2024 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. N. Venu, MD and CEO of Hitachi Energy India Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Darwin, and good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining our quarterly earnings call. Let me, we have uploaded the presentation to the stock exchange. I'm sure you have seen that. Yesterday, we announced our results for the third quarter of the financial year 2023, 2024. In the next 25 minutes, together with my colleagues, Ajay Singh, CFO, and the Company Secretary, Poovanna, and Manashri Banerjee, Investor Relations, we will take you through the quarter numbers. For the ease of reference, I will read out the slide numbers in case you are following via phones or also. So this quarter, using supply chains and better order execution helped continue the growth momentum.
The prevailing, positive economic environment the country has, India's energy transition phase, which will open up more opportunities in the coming quarters. With this, we remain, committed to exploring new opportunities stemming from energy transition across geographies and creating a robust, sustainable, clean energy system. I go to slide number, three, which is our license to operate. As we review the quarter, I want to recognize our most valuable asset, that's our employees. Our commitment to their safety has been unwavering, from offices to factories and on-site locations, and they return this with their ownership on safety matters. This quarter, we had several employee engagement programs across locations, factories, offices, focusing on employee well-being, shop floor demonstration, and life support trainings for all employee groups. At Hitachi Energy, safety is our license to operate. We never look the other way.
We reiterated this tenet as we observed HSE Week in November 2023, themed Do the Right Thing. All teams were reached using multiple platforms and formats, both virtual, physical workshop. The focus was on celebrating best practices and promoting HSE behaviors and drive us to world-class performance. We continue to receive recognition and appreciation letters from our discerning customers for driving HSE culture across the energy value chain. Sustainable safety practices and quality are always being paramount to us. We thank our clients, customers, for their constant encouragement and continued support in enhancing the safety across all the locations. Moving to the slide number four. This is also another very important for us, sustainability.
The journey to carbon neutral journey by 2030 requires all teams within Hitachi Energy to be involved, contribute through innovative ideas, and take the initiative. In the period under review, the company focus was on improving waste flow management across five locations to reduce water and air pollution, which directly affect many ecosystems and species. All the projects follow in a very standard approach in creating a framework which can be scalable, repeatable at many of our locations. Along with this, the focus remained on the timely implementation of various ongoing sustainability projects across locations, like water conservation projects in Maneja, rainwater harvesting and recharge pits at Halol, installation of rooftop solar at Doddaballapur, to mention a few.
Furthermore, there are several sustainability projects are in the pipeline for the coming quarters, like setting up EV charging points, battery energy storage system, electrification of equipment such as forklifts, et cetera. The whole idea is that, you know, we have been working in, decarbonizing our operations on all our factories, project sites, and also, in offices, et cetera. Moving to the next slide, that is slide number five. I think this, you all know better than me. The Indian economy continue its growth momentum. As per the government reports, the country's GDP is expected to grow 7.3% for FY 2023-2024. The RBI has kept the rate of interest unchanged at 6.5%.
But there is a slight rise in inflation as it touches 5.6% in November 2023 because of rise in food prices. On the power demand front, electricity demand in India is expected to touch 277 GW or 360 GW by 2027 and 2022, respectively, up from 239 GW in September 2023. Whereas industry growth, IIP, shows rise in India's factory output to a 16-month high in October. Also, study by India's largest nationalized bank suggests that individuals' average weighted mean income has risen 3.7x during FY 2014 to FY 2021, from INR 3.1 lakh to INR 11.6 lakhs. And all this means that growth drivers for Hitachi Energy remain intact and tracking upwards.
As you would be aware, we need to add 30 GW of capacity annually to reach 290 GW solar target by 2030. In wind, the first offshore tenders have been announced, 7 GW to be auctioned by FY 2024. In the transmission segment, already 35, the TBCB, Tariff-Based Competitive Bidding projects were declared in current financial year, and two HVDC projects is expected to be awarded in the next six to 12 months. Similarly, for industry, the revival of private CapEx is likely driven by government various schemes, including production-linked incentive schemes. And on the consumption standpoint, on the rail, on the electrification standpoint, rail, metro, high-speed rail, rail electrification, rolling stock upgrade, fueling the growth of transport segment, and so on that. So moving to slide, next slide, that is slide number six.
In our pursuit of advancing the sustainable future for all, we continue to lead industry discussions across the entire value chain of the energy industry in India, and also in the region at multiple forums and platforms. We are happy to inform you that the production for the Mumbai HVDC link valves has commenced in our HVDC and power quality factory in Chennai. And the work we do continue to be recognized by customers and industry peers. Hitachi Energy Tech Training and Experience Center in Manesar was recognized by Central Electricity Authority as a Category One for imparting training in operation and maintenance of the transmission and distribution segment of power sector.
Customers, recognized as a valuable partners, and we continue to translate excellence along the value chain with channel partner meets that focused on the role of technology in the energy transition. India has been championing the transition through its people, innovation, and policy. It is what makes the country a key market in the Hitachi Energy and Hitachi Group universe, reflected in the recent leadership meetings held in the country with the key stakeholders of Hitachi Energy Global Board. Moving to the next slide, slide number seven. During this quarter, we have commissioned several projects, just to name a few, grid connection projects for the 300 MW hybrid renewable in Pavagada, Karnataka, transmission project for energy intensive steel industry in Korba, Chhattisgarh.
We also successfully commissioned a major data center project, 230 kV substation in Chennai. And as a broad spectrum of society recognize the urgency of energy transition, our continued efforts have further cemented our reputation as a reliable partner and a pioneer in power technologies. Moving to the next slide, slide number eight. In the quarter ending December 31st, 2023, we received orders worth INR 1,235 crores, a flat year-on-year. Solid order execution, coupled with easing in supply chains, resulted year-on-year growth revenue of 23%.
Normalizing of supply chains also spurred year-on-year profit recovery and profit before tax stood at INR 33.8 crores, up 152% year-on-year, and profit after tax was INR 23 crores, clocking a recovery of 400% year-on-year on a low base. As of December 31, 2023, the order backlogs stood at INR 7,552 crore, providing revenue visibility for almost 22 months. Some of the key order wins, as you can see here, it's a broad-based, right from the renewable to, you know, industry and the data centers and the rail, et cetera, and also the exports have contributed in that.
Moving to the slide, next slide, slide number nine, to provide some more color on the orders received on the segmentation and the channel mix. Demand for solar and wind energy, especially from utilities, continued its momentum in this quarter. We are actively partnering on various renewable developers projects and have made significant addition this quarter as a renewable witnessed a 54% growth in this quarter compared to the last quarter. The data center remain a high growth segment, thanks to the push for 5G data localization regulations, et cetera, and data center policies. Data centers are a high growth segment in the Hitachi Energy strategy, and while the segment is nascent, we reported a very high 92% growth in orders in Q3 of FY 2024.
With the sheer potential of the market, we see this trend to continue in the future as well. While the orders for our transmission remained stable, there was a slight decline in the order rail for the rail segment. Reflecting the nature of customer orders this quarter in the part projects and services take the lead, while sector-wise, utilities saw a rise. And on the channel side, EPC leads in orders. Moving to the next slide, that is slide number 10, these are our levers for our long-term growth lever, that is service and exports. Order mix reflects our diversified portfolio across our install base and our focus on leveraging our key growth markets and capitalizing on market opportunities.
We successfully secured key market wins in services and exports, in line with our 2030 strategy. Export orders were up 61% year-on-year during the quarter, driven by transformers and high voltage products and also feeder factories, reaffirming our strategy of making India for India and the world. Orders for transformers came from Europe and African markets, while demand for power quality solutions were from South and Central America, Africa, U.S., and Europe. Some of the key orders include order from Azerbaijan for the high voltage equipment like LTBs, disconnectors, et cetera, and transformers from France, and GIS order from Spain and Portugal are a couple of examples. Service orders are a growth of 70% year-on-year during the quarter, driven by utilities industry.
Some of the key orders for the quarter is 400 kV RIP bushing replacement order, 11 kV bus bar retrofit order, and repair of some transformers, et cetera. We also received orders from across the border, which include training orders from Maldives and commissioning of eight units from Qatar. So these are just examples to talk about, you know, how our long-term growth levers, both service and exports, are playing in that. So with this, I hand over to our CFO, Ajay Singh, to walk us through the next slides on the financial performance. Over to you, Ajay.
Thank you, Venu, and good afternoon to all, and hope you are all doing well at your end. Let me give a quick insight on the financial performance for this quarter. Excellent order execution and streamlining supply chain challenges have helped us to improve our revenue and bottom line in this quarter. The focus and the proactive approach has helped us to achieve better revenue vis-à-vis quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year. During this quarter, the company booked orders worth INR 1,235 crore, stable year-on-year, while declining quarter-on-quarter, mainly due to an exceptional order that we booked in the previous quarter. Whereas execution resulted in year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter revenue growth of 23% and 3.9% respectively, our revenue stood at INR 1,276 crore in this quarter.
Easing of the supply chain constraints has further strengthened the quarter earnings and improved the bottom line. The same ease, you know, spurred year-on-year profit recovery in quarter three, FY 2024. Profit before tax stood INR 33.8 crore, up 152% year-on-year on a low base. Profit after tax was INR 23 crore, again, clocking a recovery of 400% year-on-year on a low base. Operationally, EBITDA stood at INR 81 crore in the quarter, with year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter growth of 62% and 24%, respectively. Margin has been improving sequentially over the past three quarters, and if you recollect that from quarter one, we were at the 3% operational EBITDA level.
Last quarter, we clocked 5.3%, and in the current quarter, 6.3% operational EBITDA. Our order backlog stood at INR 7,552 crore, providing a very good revenue visibility for the next 22 months. If I go to the next slide, slide number... Next slide, let me speak more in detail on this slide. So we have been discussing the ongoing macroeconomic issues over the past several quarters, and I would like to share an update on how the numbers fared during this last three months. Basically, if you see the table, it gives a more clear picture on our relentless pursuit for improving the bottom line and progressive margin recovery.
You see that the margin, the revenue improvement of 23% year-on-year to INR 1,076 crore in the quarter, basically was mainly due to the good order execution. If you see the other, you know, margin, gross margins, fairly it is seen as a consistent. The expenses also in this current quarter are consistent compared to the previous quarter, and that is how, at the overall level, we could reach PBT at 2.6% for this quarter. With this, I hand over to Venu.
Thank you, Ajay, and, moving to the next slide, that is slide 13. So as you know, India is becoming a leader, in clean tech, and our investments have made us an, node for exports, and we have been also talking about how our export strategy has been. Exports are a growth lever for the company, including through its, related party entities, and the company procures and sells products, component systems, renders and receives services from related party entities. In this slide, we anticipate a few transactions with Hitachi Energy Sweden AB, a related party entity, wherein the transaction amount is likely to exceed the materiality threshold of INR 448 crore, as it applies to our company as described under Section 188 of the Companies Act 2013 and Regulation 23 of SEBI LODR.
Based on the recommendation of the audit committee, the board of directors have considered and approved issuance of postal ballot notice for approval of material related party transaction with Hitachi Energy Sweden AB entered or to be entered for an aggregate value of up to INR 700 crore in FY 2023-2024. Transaction with this entity has not exceeded the materiality threshold as of now, and is likely to exceed marginally. Shareholders' approval will be sought to remain in compliance with the statutory requirement. The nature of transactions include sale or purchase of product, component, system, rendering, and receiving of services to and from Hitachi Energy Sweden AB, Västerås, Sweden. All transactions are in the ordinary course of business of the company and at arm's length basis. The company will be commencing a postal ballot exercise to secure the approval of shareholders.
Moving to the next slide, which is my last slide, before I open for the question and answers. As we move ahead, priorities for 2024, because we are entering into the last quarter of this financial year. As we move ahead, our growth levers remain intact. While maintaining leadership in our core segments, we will nurture high growth segments that cater to the evolving needs of the sector, harnessing new segments and markets, expanding at the edge of the grids. We are seeing the fruits of focusing on our capabilities in services, exports, and digital verticals, and we will continue to strengthen the same. In our operations, we will continue to seek to maximize the efficiencies in converting our significant order backlog to revenue accretion, revenue and revenue accretion.
While in the short term, staying agile regarding the evolving situation under trade routes, logistics, et cetera. Nevertheless, such execution, when coupled with the operational excellence across manufacturing and functional processes, will result in margin accretion going forward. Our teams will reinforce their efforts to the last leg of transition in the coming quarter as we enter the implementation phase of Reiwa, a multi-year project to upgrade our core ERP systems, thereby integrating core businesses, functions, and processes in a single platform, thus helping enhance operational agility, quality, and productivity. Our purpose remains to advance a sustainable energy future for all, and we can deliver sustainably delivery this if our teams are consistently safe, healthy, strong and agile. People remain, as always, at the heart of our operations, and we will continue to build and deliver sustainable stakeholders value.
So with this, I close my presentation and open the channel for the questions. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session.
Yes.
Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. We also request that you please restrict your questions to two per participant. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar, from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good evening, sir.
Good evening.
My first question is on order inflow. So order inflow is yet to see a, you know, the momentum. We were expecting that given the strong bidding activity for transmission projects in the last nine months, especially in the domestic market. My question is, how has been inquiry from bidders for the transmission equipment, and can we expect a slightly higher order inflow as we, as we enter calendar year 2025? Calendar year 2024, yeah.
Yeah. So thank you, Mohit. As I talked about in my opening comments, I think we have a very strong robust pipeline across the sectors, across the segments where we are operating. For example, the transmission is the one segment where you talked about. As I said, you know, there are a lot of tariff-based bidding projects out there, including some of the STATCOM projects. And there are HVDC projects are under pipeline, and there are also large 765 kV projects are also coming up for bidding in that. And I would say that the there is a very robust pipeline, is a very strong pipeline in the coming quarters.
My second question is, sir, have you completed the study and submitted the report for Leh, Ladakh, for technical feasibility to Power Grid?
Yeah.
Can we expect this project to progress in the next fiscal or this calendar year?
Yeah. So again, this is a very interesting question. So we have, as part of our agreement with our customer, to complete by 31st of March. So we are on track. So progressively, we have to submit, you know, various reports. So we are already submitting, you know, a couple of reports in that. So we are on track, so we will be submitting our study report in line with that.
How has been your experience, sir? We can give some color.
Which one?
How has been the experience? You know, do you think that this is feasible, technically feasible, and this can be done at the... at a reasonable cost?
Yeah, I think, I think our customer will talk about more on that, but from our standpoint is that, you know, we do have a technical solutions for that, and that's what is – We have not completed the study yet, you know. There are a couple of studies I've done, but there are many more studies to be completed, and we still have a couple of weeks before we complete and conclude our study report in that. But we do believe basis with that there are technical solutions are available.
Understood, sir. Thank you for the opportunity, and best of luck, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Renu Baid from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Good evening, sir.
Good evening.
My first question is on the bullet train or the high-speed project. We were expecting finalization of few packages this last year-end. L&T was announced bidder for INR 10,000 crore plus of orders. So what is now the opportunity size for us? Are we still in discussion with EPC contractors, partners? And what could be the timeline when of on of receipt of such orders?
Yeah. So thank you, Renu. I think the question, you all know that, that the electrical package has been finalized on the EPC, so we have also submitted our bids to the EPCs, including the winning bidder. So we are in touch with them, and we normally do not mention the size of the thing until, you know, we conclude it. You know, it's various things, including all our products are there. So it depends upon what kind of customer takes, you know, how, what's the business model, how, you know, packaging, those things will differ the size of the things, right? As we speak, we have done our submission.
The timeline of the award to us?
Uh-
If we are competitive... Yeah. What are the timelines of award of these electric-
Maybe one to two quarters is what we expect. One to two quarters.
Quarters?
Yeah.
So secondly, if you look on the broad basis, given the way domestic market has bounced back with respect to high voltage transmission equipment, clearly supplies are in short, and it seems that prices in general have improved. So by when do we expect those better margin orders will start reflecting in our execution and our numbers? So how far are we? Is it just a couple of quarters away, or probably our timelines and lead cycle of orders are different from the ones which are getting finalized? Because while we have been consistent in the last couple of quarters on gross margins and cost structures, it still seems to be suboptimal when we compare it with the rest of the key large domestic players.
So how far are we in terms of getting these better margin orders in our backlog? And also any view in terms of because we also had a target to improve the operating margins to near double-digit levels by next year. So are we broadly on track, or there could be some additional hiccups on the way?
Yes. So I think, again, it's a very interesting question, Renu, and we have been very consistent with what we have been saying on this. And we do have. I think our portfolio, our order backlog is very robust. It's again, a broad-based, and both our exports and the service, which is also part of our portfolio, will definitely add to the bottom line in that. So there are challenges. While we talk, there are also a lot of challenges, geopolitical and also the you know, transport, logistics. As we are more improving on our exports, it's also important that you know, our logistics on the exports is also extremely need to be robust.
Any kind of, you know, external thing, like a Red Sea, another thing, do have a challenge over a period of time. It's important that we need to navigate those things and get into that. But having said that, if you really look at what we have been talking about, we said we have been sequentially improved, and we continue to see perform a sequential improvement. In the last three quarters, so operational EBITDA, you take from a 3% in quarter one, and then 5.8%, and now we came to 6.3%. So sequentially, we are improving it, and we also have a clear strategy to bring the double-digit operational EBITDA by end of financial year, is what we said in that.
So again, look at our strategy. We said that in the exports, when we start about, we are looking at in the 20%-25% range, and then we have stabilized 25%. And if you really look at the nine months exports, and we are already 30%+. So the strategy has to be, you know, fall in place and then become a little more stable, and that's, that's how, you know, we are doing it. And on the margins, we'll, we'll definitely will flow in once we execute the order backlog, which includes the export, which includes the service, which includes other things in that.
Sure. And lastly, if I can, what could be the status of the Mumbai HVDC? You did mention valves getting manufactured at Chennai plant. So in terms of execution timelines of this backlog, how should we look at end of this fiscal and next fiscal specifically?
So as part of our contract with our customers, we should complete anywhere between March 2025 to June 2025, between that. I think we are on track, both on the execution on the ground, and as well as on the manufacturing of those various components, not only in India but also in other places. So it's we are very much on track on that.
Got it. Sure. Thanks much, yeah, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, Venu. Congratulations on a decent quarter.
Thank you.
So my question is again on margins. So we had done 6.3% of operating EBITDA margins this quarter, so we have a journey of 10%, I think, towards the end of FY 2025. So, so every quarter, do you expect some improvement, to bridge that gap of almost 400 basis points, at least to start with, at least 10% by FY 2025, right?
Yeah. As we just now spoke, Parikshit, so that is, that is our endeavor. Our endeavor is to make sequential improvement while navigating the various challenges, et cetera, in that.
Okay. Second question is on other expenses. So when I compare with your other peer, I mean, who's almost half your size, and when I see your other expense, expenses, gross margin is largely in line, but your other expenses are substantially higher. So is there any component there? I mean, earlier we had this IT support from ABB India, so where we were incurring expenses. So has that come down? Are we now on our own IT network, so, so we can... What could be the components that we can maybe we can help improve our margins?
Maybe Ajay, our CFO, would add to this, Parikshit.
Thank you, Parikshit, for this question. So, if you see our other expenses, you can see the current year results also, we are fairly consistent, compared to the earlier quarter. So if you see year-on-year , our other expenses were 21.7%, now we are hovering around 19.4%. Having said that, on the IT cost, yes, the IT cost, currently we are not yet totally out of the ABB, you know, support. We are still running at TSA, and, we are expecting that we'll be out of this, you know, support mostly by the mid next year. So, but even if you are out of this, you know, support, we'll have our own infrastructure, where the cost will come.
Overall, if I see the mix, I don't see any additional cost more than this, that is, popping up in the quarter. Definitely going forward as the external, you know, impacts comes down, we'll be improving on the margins as such.
Okay. So just the last question, so this margin improvement, so will it come from better pricing? Do we still have some under absorptions of inflation on the pricing side? Because on one side we are talking about very, very strong opportunity on the demand side. Other players are talking about under investment in capacity, so it definitely builds a scenario for increase in prices. So have you already taken some price hikes for the last six months? So if you can give some color on the improvement in margin trajectory, so which will be the factors which will be driving this?
Yeah. Our margin improvement, Parikshit, is basically a factor of our improving our revenue accretion, and because we have a strong backlog, and that will get into the revenue accretion over a period of time. And then we also said our two levers, which are service and exports, will contribute that as export revenue kicks in, and also service revenue kicks in, then that also will do that. And in addition to that, as you know, we have invested heavily in the last two, three years and set up new green factories, and those factories are also filling up now. One example is the Chennai power system and HVDC factory, where we started now producing valves on that.
We also now filled with orders from other things. So those things, you know, we are able to leverage of those those assets, and that also will add both revenue accretion as well as the margin accretion.
What about the price hike, sir? Anything on, any color on the price hikes have you taken in the last six months?
You should understand that, you know, India is a very competitive market, and we are getting a price increase, but also you should understand that the commodity prices also are equally increasing in that. So we are whatever the increase is coming, basically is able to do that. Then, yes, we are also looking at a very quality order, so we have initiated a pricing excellence as a strategy to look at, you know, bringing more quality orders as part of the portfolio, and that should also help us to realize those things.
Okay, sir. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mahesh Bendre from LIC Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Sir, previous two quarters, we were mentioning about the chip shortages that was actually limiting your production and delivery. So has that problem been solved or still is there some issue on that?
Yeah. Thank you, Mahesh. I think there I would say that it has now become better now, so we are able to, you know, predict and able to, you know, upfront order those components. So we are partly I would say that we are mitigated and then, but with a better forecasting things and upfront ordering, so we are able to manage at this point in time.
Sure. And, sir, if I look at last five to six quarters, apart from the HVDC orders. Our order inflow has been almost constant for every quarter. I mean, when we look at the peers or other players in the industry, there is a growth, significant growth we are witnessing on order inflow side. But in our side, it's remaining almost, you know, stagnant. So what could be the possible reason for this, sir?
No, I don't think our orders are stagnant. If you really look at our orders, on a quarter-on-quarter, you know, we are having a very, very good growth. And on top of that, if you really look at, you know, nine months put together, and if you take the last HVDC project, we have a—take the HVDC project out, and then you look at the nine months cumulative, so we have a very strong growth, right? So, look at our numbers on a cumulative basis, and then, I think we have a strong growth, even if you even if you remove the HVDC project.
Because the HVDC project is there in the last year, which is not comparable for the same reason in there.
No, I was mentioning about the export orders that we are getting very high traction. So if you strip them aside to domestic side, we are still, given the position we are into, and transmission CapEx that is coming up, that seems to be low on this side.
Yeah, I'm not sure from where—what's the number you're looking at. Even if you remove the exports, also on the domestic demand, we still have a growth removing HVDC project, Mahesh.
Sure. Thank you, sir.
The base orders, if I can add to you, base orders, there's a 16% growth, year-on-year , yeah?
Sure. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Umesh Raut from Nomura India. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. Sir, first of all, on the export side-
Can you, can you please come close to the mic, Mr. Umesh?
This is fine, sir?
Yeah, this is better.
Yeah, sure. So, the first question is more of on the export side. So, when you are seeing strong demand on the export from various markets, I just wanted to know, how much of these orders are coming in from parent entities and how much beyond parent entity?
You, you're talking about the exports?
Yes, exports with the Hitachi Group and exports with the non-Hitachi Group.
Yeah. So it's a ballpark in the range of, you know, anywhere between 50%-60% coming from our internal companies, and the rest are coming from, you know, direct exports.
Okay. And, sir, now this new proposal which is under consideration, where you are talking about-
Again, here we need to understand just as a comment, we got to understand. For example, internal means we supply a GIS in Europe, for example, okay? We supply GIS. So since we do not have any, you know, sales offices there, the GIS will be booked by the local Hitachi Energy office, and for example, the one which we booked, and that will be, you know, given as an order there. So that's also we consider as an internal order, even though we send as a full-fledged thing in that.
Okay. Okay.
Yeah.
Just wanted to harp upon the profitability side as well. How is profitability different between these two segments?
So we, we will not able to give. No, when you say these two segment, means, all the, all the export orders, whether it is, internal or external, it's an arm's length only.
Got it, sir. Sir, regarding this proposal, which is under consideration regarding RPT transactions, now going up to about INR 700 crore for full year 2024.
Yeah.
How much of that has been booked in first nine months, FY 2024?
Yeah, maybe, Poovanna, you would like to add, Poovanna?
Yeah, sure, Umesh, thanks for that,
Umesh.
As of December, we've had invoice level transaction of 68%.
Yeah. Data, so as to 68% has been booked.
Got it, sir.
Yeah.
Sir, second question is more on your comment from the presentation, where you are referring that private CapEx or demand from industry side is also kind of looking up.
Yeah.
But if I look at order inflow for third quarter, this is more of down, especially from the industry side.
Yes.
So where exactly you are saying, and where exactly, there is still downturn, which is kind of, visible in the market?
Yeah. So when I talked about, you know, industrial CapEx is reviving, is basically I'm talking about the broad base. No, in one quarter we may have a large order booked in that, so which is not comparable in that. But what we see is that we see, you know, a lot of traction on, on the industrial thing, expansions of that and the service standpoint, digital, et cetera. So digital products, they're buying, they're trying to, you know, decarbonizing of the industries. So these are the ones, what I'm talking about, you know, thing, whether you talk about the steel, cement industries and, data center, anyway, we have a huge growth in that. So those are the things I'm talking about, Umesh.
Got it, sir. Sir, last bit is more of clarification. So, again, referring to, slide number nine, where, contribution from EPC channel has, significantly went up. So, would it fair to assume that, this will add, further pressure on, profitability side, assuming that EPC channel, would have, relatively lower margins than the direct end user?
So when we talk about, you know, on the EPC, we have a—Our strategy is that we will not able to sell everything to direct end users, so we need these channels, and that's how we have been doing it, you know, whether the EPCs, OEMs, distributors are part and parcel of our go-to-market strategy in that. And having said that, just because our EPCs have gone up, that, you know, we... not that we compromise our quality of the order. So we have a clear strategy on those things, and then we are, you know, maintaining those things. And as I said previously, we started the pricing excellence.
The whole idea of the pricing excellence is to look at, you know, what is the value add we will get it, whether we are selling to EPCs, we are selling to direct end customers. We do not see any of those compromise taking place, or we do not see any kind of dilution of our margins just because we sell it to, you know, different channels.
Got it, sir. Thank you so much, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Priyank Chheda from Vallum Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. So I want to, I would request you to get more, give us more insights on the levers to the margin expansion which you spoke. First, lever is service and exports. If you can help us with the data on how much is the service and exports revenue as on date. The second lever was revenue recognition picking up. So if you can help us with what would be the revenue recognition that you are looking towards, FY 2025, would Mumbai HVDC project revenue recognition itself lead to a strong operating, leverage? And the third lever that you clearly mentioned was utilizations. So, what are the current utilization levels, and what is the kind of a levels that you're looking towards, in the coming years? Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you, Priyank. I think, we do not give any details on a project level, and we also will not give any forward-looking, information on that, you know, what will be the revenue coming in this quarter. So all I say that, you know, we had a very strong—we have a still strong order backlog, and, that order backlog is getting converted into the revenue, and that's where the revenue accretion is coming in that. So on the levers, I, about, margin accretion, I have already talked about. I think, I have nothing, more to add to what I have already talked about in that.
So, revenue recognition is revenue accretion, you know, revenue accretion, the revenue growth is a function of what backlog we have and what is our, what are the, you know, existing book-to-bill orders. So that's, that part is what we're going to do that. And having said that, let me also give you a couple of data points for you to understand that export we were talking about in the range of 25%, right? So we see export revenue, depending on the quarter, 20%- 23%, 24% in that. And the service is high single digit, which is moving towards a double digit, slowly entering into the double digit. So that's how the thing, what we are looking at in the margin accretion standpoint.
So the current utilization levels?
Yeah. Current utilization level is, depending upon the which factory, it's varying anywhere between 75%, you know, towards close to 90%, 85%-90%. And some new factories, as you know, it will not get into that. So new factories which we inaugurated definitely has a low, utilization ratio, but they are also filling up, building up, of course.
Perfect. Just a data keeping question that I have. On the operating, operational EBITDA, which Hitachi reports, is at around INR 81 crore, while the actual reported EBITDA is at around INR 65 crore. So what's the INR 68 crore. So what's the INR 13 crore difference with respect to it maybe, maybe related to effects or some other expenses, which if you can, if you would like to call out?
Maybe our CFO, Ajay Singh, will,
Thank you for the question, and you are right. It is mainly on the FX part, that delta is there.
So we have reported a FX loss on to the tune of INR 30 crore?
Yeah. If you see our results, you can see that in this current quarter, we have reported a FX loss of INR 9.8 crore. That is, there.
Okay. So if you can help us, what is the nature of this? Why do we, I mean, why are we able to report the losses? Would it... It's just an accounting entry, which will get reversed in the current, in the coming quarters?
Yes, it is basically a restatement of this, payments.
Accounting entry.
Yeah.
It's an accounting entry.
Got it. Got it. And, just to, again, clarify, Mumbai HVDC project was not recognized in the current quarter, right? Would we- we would be starting it from Q4, in, which is in the coming quarter. And, and also, if you can help us, the STATCOM order that we had received in the last quarter, by when would... What's the timeline for execution of that, the starting period and the end period?
Yeah. Mumbai, HVDC, the project has started. As the project gets started, the revenue also start getting recognition based on the milestones being done, right? Both at the project site and also some of the things in that. But it is a slow start now, so in the coming quarters, we see a lot of material in a big, big items will be coming in, so that will have a much better higher revenue from the, from the, that, from, from the HVDC Mumbai project. So STATCOM, you know, we are supposed to complete in 24 months, and we have already started.
The first two quarters will be a lot of engineering approvals, et cetera, design engineer approvals, and thereafter we see the project is starting with the margin, project is starting with the revenue, revenue.
All right. Thanks a lot for answering all the questions.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dhavan Shah from AlfAccurate Advisors. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, sir. My question is on the order book breakup. Right now, the order book is roughly INR 7,500-odd crore, and if we exclude this INR 2,000 crore HVDC, what would be, you know, the order book breakup between service, exports, and then the other industries, like the data center and the other emerging one? Can you share-
Yeah.
the breakup of that, and what would be the execution timing?
Yeah, roughly, you know, you can take 25% of that is exports, and close to, you know, 9%-10% is the service orders, and that, that's what is our ballpark figures.
The other industries, data center and the others?
We don't, we don't split, we don't split that, you know, industry-wise, utilities, industries, and the data centers at this point in time. So... But we have not been giving that. It's not that we don't split, we have not been giving figures so far.
Okay. Okay. And as you said, that the value added segment, like the exports and the service revenue, would go up in the coming quarters, which would help you to improve the overall EBITDA margin. So, what kind of gross margins do we do? And right now, it is roughly 40-odd%. So what would be your end development by FY 2025, and what can be the gross margin? Because in the earlier years, we did roughly 45%, 50% also. So is this achievable, like 45-odd% gross margins?
So we again will not talk about what's the gross margin. What we are talking is that we are sticking to that, you know, we are sequentially improving on the bottom line, which includes, you know, our better order gross margins, and also on the cost sides, and also, you know, various other measures. So it's a combination of all that we'll get into the 10% operational EBITDA by end of FY 2025, assuming that all the headwinds are normalizes. So that's where, that's what we are saying.
Sure, sir. Yeah.
Yeah. Since we have very few minutes left, we are, can we please restrict to two questions, because we also have a couple of others in the queue, please.
Sure. Thanks.
Operator, can you please insist on two questions, please?
Certainly, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we re-request you to please restrict your questions to two questions per participant. We have the next question from the line of Nikhil Abhyankar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, there are multiple projects already announced under the RDSS scheme, so what kind of pipeline do we have remaining going forward? And are we selling it directly to the DISCOMs or are we going through the EPC players?
Yeah. So we have... Again, you know, these particular projects are combination of various things, which includes, you know, the engineering, procurement, and also not only the SCADA and other things, but also in many other aspects of the digital infrastructure. We would like to play in line with our strategy. We will restrict ourselves into the SCADA, automation, DMS, EMS, and those are the things in there. So we are working with the partners, we are working with some of the EPCs, and some of the projects we have received orders from PGCIL and also other places. In some places, wherever it is meeting our strategy, so we are also bidding directly on that.
So it's a combination of various things, but we are very actively pursuing all these projects to, you know, to position our portfolio there.
What can be the pipeline, say, in next 12 months?
So again, we don't quantify the pipeline for any of these segments, but the pipeline is very robust, Nikhil.
Okay. Okay, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bhalchandra Shinde from Kotak Life. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. Sir, would like to know on the longer term perspective, like, since we have started with the facility in HVDC, how the localization content versus our peers, and cost advantages-wise, how we have placements? Like, there are lined up HVDC orders, and do we see that competitive edge for us as compared to peers?
Yeah. So, I think, again, this is a very good, interesting question. As you know, HVDC, so we have pioneered this technology, and we will be completing 70 years of this technology globally, as a, as a invention, inventor and a pioneer technology.... by Hitachi Energy and then our predecessors, right? So we have, as we speak, we have, globally, as well as in India, almost 50% of our existing, installation HVDC links runs through Hitachi Energy Technology. So we do have, quite a, robust, you know, end-to-end offerings, in, in India, for example, we manufacture the converter transformer, we do the valves, we have the, you know, switchgear, and we do also end-to-end engineering. That's also quite a big, cost element in HVDC kind of projects.
With that, I think we should be in a better position to offer our competitive solutions to our customers.
The ordering-wise, as we mentioned, that every year one HVDC ordering is expected. But this year we have not seen that kind of a means though tendering has happened, but still anything, end result we have not seen. Are we expecting anything in next six months or in this calendar year, which orders we should expect?
So, you probably know, the Bhadla is already tendered and which is due now, you know, first of February. And, if there is no extension, the tender will be submitted, and on as per the due date, right, which is already there in the REC website. So you can also look at the schedule of ordering, et cetera. They have already published in their website.
Okay. Okay.
Thank you.
Thanks very much.
Maybe one last question?
Hello, sir. We have the... Yes. The next question is from the line of Teena Virmani from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for taking my question. I just have one question, regarding this, INR 700 crore cost with the, the related parties. Just wanted to understand, is it possible to localize these products which you are, right now thinking of procuring from the parent entity, over a period of time? Or just wanted to understand whether this cost will remain in future, too, for, the company, or, over a period of time we can think of, manufacturing these.
So maybe I think we may have to clarify. This is not a cost on this. This is a related party transaction, both, you know, the, the products, we sell it to our team, and also some of them we buy there. So it is not, entirely we are not buying there. It is both purchase and sale.
Total put together is around INR 700 crore.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
And whatever you are procuring from the entity, is it possible to localize those products, or those products will continue to be procured from them only?
No, some of the products we continue to procure. It's not that, you know, we... The localization we have been doing to the extent possible today, for example, almost 85% of what we produce globally, we do it locally here. So we already, you know, reached a very, very substantial level of localization and local manufacturing in that. The bulk of this, what you're talking about, is the sale, what we do there.
Okay. So this will not come in your path to achieve the double-digit margin trajectory, which you have highlighted by end of FY 2025?
No, no, no. This is, this is. No, it is not. This is not a cost, as I said. This is basically, we are selling our products from here to our Sweden factory, and the bulk of that is our products we are selling to them, and some we are also receiving it, because, for example, some of our HVDC, we have to get some components from there, so that is how it goes like that. So it is, it is for both sale and purchase.
So-
Yeah, sure, Ajay, go ahead.
Let me a little bit more give one clarification. So this is just a regulatory requirement that we have to comply with, that this is a related party transactions with our entity, Sweden, where the overall transaction is going to hit the threshold, and threshold is 10% of our last year's revenue. And since it is crossing the threshold, as a good governance, it is required that we have to take a prior approval from the minority shareholders, and that is why we are going ahead with this ballot paper, where we'll seek approvals from the minority shareholders in order to be compliant with the related party-
Yeah
... regulations.
Thank you.
I hope I have clarified.
Yeah.
Thank you. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. N. Venu for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, for attending to this conference call and asking a very interesting questions. As we navigate all the challenges and then continue to grow our strong pipeline, both on the orders and also converting them into margin, and then finally we are able to reach our goal on the margin. We are also enabling the sustainable energy future, advancing sustainable energy future for all our customers. This is a journey, and we would like to continue this journey together. Thank you very much once again taking time from your busy schedule and attending to that. Please take care and stay safe. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Hitachi Energy India Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.