Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I am moderator for this conference. Welcome to the conference call of RITES Limited to discuss its Q3 and 9M FY25 results. We have with us today Sri Rahul Mithal, Chairman and Managing Director. Sri Arun Kumar Singh, Director of Projects. Dr. Deepak Tripathi, Director Technical. And Sri Krishna Gopal Agarwal, Director of Finance. At this moment, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. At that time, if you have a question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. Please note, this conference is being recorded, and in the interest of time and fairness to all the participants, you are requested to restrict yourself to one question per participant. Time permits, you may come back in the question queue.
Now, I would like to hand the floor over to Sri Rahul Mithal, Chairman and Managing Director, RITES Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Morning, morning, everyone. Let me start with giving the Safe Harbor Statement. The presentation and the press release, which we uploaded on our website and exchanges yesterday, and discussions during the call today, may have some forward-looking statements. These statements consider the environment we see as of today and obviously carry a risk in terms of uncertainty, because of which the actual results could be different, and we do not undertake to update those statements periodically. So let me start with a brief overview of the Q3 performance before we leave the floor open for questions. So as you see, the Q3 YOY has a dip of about 15%-16%, both in top line and the bottom line.
If you see sequentially, there has been an uptake in all the parameters, whether it is the top line, whether it is the EBITDA, the PAT, and in fact, both the EBITDA margins and PAT margins also have been about 1% growth, so this is in line with our focus, as we've been saying right from the beginning of this FY, in line with our focus strategy of improved execution. The second prong of our two-prong focus strategy was to get aggressive order inflow, and as you must have seen, this quarter has broken all records. We've got 110-plus orders totaling to 1,900-plus crores, which is nearly equivalent to the 2,200 crores which we got in the entire previous FY, and it is about three times the order inflow of quarter two, so that's the kind of order inflows.
We have maintained a strike rate of one order a day now successively for four quarters. We've got an order book now of INR 8,000 crores, which is an all-time high. So the performance, to my mind, while YOY, definitely there is a dip. But in terms of the performance of Q3, in line with our stated two-prong focus strategy of improved execution and aggressive order inflows, has been in line with our, as I said, our guidance and as our strategy at the beginning of this FY. And this would be the trend that we see moving forward into Q4. So with those opening remarks, I leave the floor open for questions, and I'll come to specifics in response to questions.
Thank you. Now we begin the question-and-answer session. If you have a question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. In the interest of time and fairness to all the participants, you are requested to restrict yourself to one question per participant. Time permits, you may join back the question queue. The first question comes from the line of Vishal Periwal with Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity, and congratulations on good order win. Sir, in terms of execution, I know inflows have been pretty robust. So when do you see execution picking up, particularly say for turnkey? Though we have orders, but on a year-on-year basis, revenue has declined last quarter also in this quarter also. So any color on that will be helpful, sir.
Yes. So, morning, Vishal. So specifically for turnkey, you see the dip YoY has been as the older turnkey orders, like for example, railway electrification, etc., they have now nearly reached their completion. And the fresh order inflows in the turnkey segment and overall in the last quarter and this FY, these, whether it is turnkey consultancy or Expotec , will start generating definitely revenue Q4, Q1 onwards. And as I said, Q4, we would strive to continue the sequential trend. But if you see on a YoY basis, I definitely see the coming FY 2025-26 on at least a 20% growth on the top line, which would result because of these revenues flowing in from all, whether consultancy, Expotec , or Turnkey. So this is our target, our aspiration to see a 20% top line growth in the coming FY vis-à-vis the current FY.
Thank you. Mr. Periwal, please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Vinamra Hirawat with JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Am I audible .
Yes. Morning, Vinamra. Go ahead.
So I just had one question, which is on exports. So now we have Bangladesh and Mozambique, both in our order books. I want to know what percentage of these will be executed in FY 26, the timelines of these orders, and the margins for these orders. Last year, we had like 21% in exports margins. Is it higher than that for these orders? And an update on Zimbabwe, if possible.
Yeah. So let me first break down your question into three, four parts. First is in terms of execution. We have an order book of export of about INR 1,300 crores, which includes Mozambique, Bangladesh, and South Africa. So these will definitely, as I said, they have a lead time of about 12-18 months. So we foresee these orders start giving us revenue in the next FY, and at least to a minimum of 40% of this order book of INR 1,300 crores in Expotec . We aim at least on a minimum 40% order to see the revenue realization in the coming FY. As I said, the export revenue gets booked only when the Bill of Lading happens. So that's why there is a staggered revenue booking. In terms of the Zimbabwe, you asked a question.
Still, it is not part of our order book, and the funding, which is being sourced by them from Afreximbank, that is still being pursued jointly by the National Railways of Zimbabwe and us. But it is still to reach a finality. We are hoping that it does so because it's been a long time since it's been in the process. In terms of margins, these orders, both Bangladesh and Mozambique, have been for the first time in the history of about four to five decades on a competitive basis. The Bangladesh order was a global tender, an EIB-funded tender. So margins cannot be in the range which were there in the line of credit Exim Bank tenders. The margin was much lesser. So the 20-odd% margins which have been traditionally there in the export stream, the margins will be much, much lesser.
Each order would have a different margin. So on a blended basis, it would work out to lesser. But overall, by and large, it would be definitely much lesser than 20-odd%, which has historically been there in the export stream.
Thank you. Mr. Hirawat, please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Nemish Sundar with Elara Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity, sir. Am I audible?
Yes, Nemish, go ahead.
Yeah. Sir, just continuing on the exports question, I just wanted to ask, so how is the export pipeline now? And are we expecting any export order this year, or could we expect a big order next year in line with your guidance of one big export order a year?
In fact, I must tell you, we broke the hiatus about four quarters back, and we made a target that we'll try and get an export order every quarter. And we have maintained that. The last four trailing quarters, we've got an export order in every quarter. There are a lot of bids in the pipeline, and we will continue to strive to get at least one export order in every quarter. Some could be big, some could be of a lesser medium size. But definitely, with the kind of opportunities and the aggressive bidding that we are doing, not relying on the traditional line of credit opportunities, which are hardly there now in terms of export of rolling stock. So we foresee that we will maintain this trend of getting fresh Expotec orders in the coming quarters.
Thank you. Mr. Sundar, please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Shreyans Mehta with Equirus Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, one bookkeeping question. What will be the net cash on our books as of late, our own cash?
Our cash balance is about INR 609 crores, and the rest we keep as a client fund, which is separate, which we don't, that's a client fund of about INR 2,600 crores, which we do not take onto our balance sheet. That's separate. That account is separate. Our cash balance is about INR 609 crores.
Sure, sure.
Thank you. Mr. Mehta, please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Viraj with Jupiter Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good morning, sir. My question is, now more than around 45% of the revenue coming from the turnkey. So is it going to be a new normal now for us because of the kind of circumstances we are in? Because the turnkey price is increasing, and the margins are lesser there. So even the margins, new PAT margins also would be a new normal?
Yeah. Morning, Viraj. So let me put the reply in a reverse manner. You see, we have been aiming that the consultancy revenue remains definitely 50%+ , and that is what is going to remain. In some quarters, because the export revenue was not there, you saw a bigger contribution from the turnkey segment. But moving forward, as the export revenue will also be substantial, there will be, on a quarter-on-quarter basis, a mix of turnkey and export. Yes, turnkey would definitely have much lower margins compared to export. But overall, the EBITDA margins of about 20-odd% on a console basis and PAT margins of about 15%-16% on a console basis, to my mind, as I've been indicating in the last quarter also, this is the bottom of the barrel that we have reached.
We would strive to maintain these levels of EBITDA and PAT margins on a console basis with a blend of the different streams of high and low margin revenue.
Thank you. Mr. Viraj, please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Nemish Sundar with Elara Capital. Please go ahead.
Oh, yeah. Thank you for the follow-up opportunity, sir. So I just wanted to know, in the quality assurance, I think we saw some dip this quarter due to some increased competition. So could you please give some more clarity on that?
There's not really a dip. Overall, in quality assurance, has been, as you're aware of, the change dynamics vis-à-vis last year, so yes, if you compare on a nine-month-to-nine-month basis, as the new orders started kicking in from Q2 of last FY or Q3 of last FY, gradually, sequentially, there has been a dip in the contribution of quality assurance to the overall consultancy revenue, but in terms of sequentially now, because of a larger client base, in fact, last FY, if you see the total revenue was about 60% from IR and about 40% from non-IR, that has flipped now, and now we are about 60% on non-IR in this quarter and about 40% in IR as a client, so because of the larger base of quality assurance clients, whether it is state governments, renewables, solars, power transmission, oil companies, GeM Portal, etc., the revenue mix is changing.
The levels of quality assurance revenue contributing to the overall consultancy revenue will now have seen, as I said again a few quarters back, the bottom of the barrel is only going to increase now in sequential quarters because of the larger order book and larger client base.
Okay. Thank you, sir. I'll get back in the queue.
Yep.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Viraj with Jupiter Financial. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Regarding the guidance you said in the last call, we'll be matching last year's number, right? And so the current year guidance would be what? Last year plus 20% growth and 15% PAT margins, that's correct to think? That should be the basis for my analysis.
You see, if you see nine months to nine months, we've had a hit of about INR 200 crores on the top line. And if you break it down, this INR 200 crores, INR 100 crores is because of export revenue, which was nearly nil this year in the nine months. INR 50 crores is a hit because of quality assurance revenue. And INR 50 crores is the hit because of turnkey revenue, which, as I said, the turnkey projects which were finishing. So this is the INR 200 crore hit in the top line. The bottom line hit in these nine months is about INR 80 crores. This INR 80 crores, about INR 40 crores is because of this dip of INR 200 crores. And another INR 40 crores is because of the dip in EBITDA margins YOY by about 5%. So that's the total trend for these nine months.
Moving forward, and that's in terms of percentage, nine months to nine months, the top line has taken a dip of about 11%, and the PAT has taken a dip of about 25%. So moving forward for this FY, with again increased focus on execution in Q4, what we will definitely strive to come as close to the previous FY. We are aiming that the dip in top line should be at least below 10%, and the dip in bottom line should be in the range of aiming to be 20% or at least aim below 20%. So that's as far as this FY is concerned. Execution is going to be the focus for coming quarters as it has been. And this huge order book of INR 8,000 crores will start generating revenue Q1, Q2 onwards.
We are aiming, as I said, for the coming FY, growth of at least about 20% on the top line vis-à-vis the FY 2024-25. Margins, we are aiming to aspire to maintain at the current levels of about 20-odd% on a console basis EBITDA margins and about 15%-16% PAT margins.
Sir, we'll be closing this year around 2,400 recurring revenue, right? That would be the target to strive. Is that correct to think?
Yes. In terms of numbers, as I said, we are about 11% down on top line, aiming to be 10% or below 10%. So somewhere in that range. And in terms of profit, we are about 25% down. So aiming to be about 20-odd in that range. So that Q4 execution will aim to bring the overall FY in that range.
So the Q4 will be the better quarter. We'll strive to be the better quarter for the year. That's what would be, right?
Yes, definitely. Q1, Q2, Q3 have been sequentially improving, and definitely Q4, we are aiming to be better as Q3 has been better vis-à-vis Q2 in all parameters, whether it is the top line, whether EBITDA, PAT, and even margins have gone up by one-odd %, so Q4, we would aim that all parameters, we again aim that sequentially improve over Q3.
Thank you, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question comes from the line of Viraj with Jupiter Financial. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. What would be our dividend policy? Would it be the same as last year? I mean, around 90% payout?
As you see, the dividend payout for quarter three has been about 95%+ . Averaging out, even if you take all the three quarters, it has averaged out to about 95%+ , which is in the range of the overall of last FY, which again was about 95.2%. Moving forward, we see, I mean, I don't want to be, but this is the trend that we would definitely like to continue. We don't see any major change in our policy. We are a low CapEx company and debt-free company, and we would like to maintain this trend.
Thank you, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Parimal Mithani with Credent Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Sir, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I just wanted to get a clarification in terms of consultancy. You had a tie-up with one of the global consultancy companies. How is that tie-up going across? If you can throw a little bit in terms of Middle East, if you can throw light, how are you progressing there?
Parimal, which tie-up are you talking about? See, we have in Middle East, we have a MoU with Etihad Rail, which is the leading player in rail infra. We tied up last year with Abu Dhabi Ports, which has not only presence in UAE but across Africa and Asia in ports and other infra like economic zones and logistics hubs. So we are working with them. We are exploring various opportunities, and these are early days in the last few months. So I'm sure that we will. We've already opened an office in UAE and moving forward, also working on the IMEC corridor. So these will definitely generate more and more opportunities and orders in the coming quarters.
Okay. And sir, in terms of my first question about the quality assurances, you had a tie-up with some global major for consultancy business in India. So can you, I forgot the company name, but it was one of the companies that you had a tie-up for consultancy across that form. So can you throw light on that?
Yes, so that tie-up has already started yielding results, and we have got an order from Rail Coach Factory, Kapurthala for the safety audit of the electrical systems in the coaches being manufactured, and also, we've got an order for Vande Bharat Rakes also, inspection of quality assurance of Vande Bharat Rakes, so that tie-up is giving us results.
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Vinamra Hirawat with JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Sir, I just want to understand your PowerGen or REMC segment a little better. Why are we not getting orders, and is this a segment that we can scale better in the future?
You see, REMC has. It's primarily a consultancy company for power procurement for Indian Railways. And it has been showing a steady revenue of about 30-odd crores on every quarter, 35 crores in fact this quarter. It's showing a PAT of good 19, 20 crores this quarter. It has been 19 crores. It's given a good dividend. So it is linked to the power consumption as more and more electrification is happening, and it is definitely going to grow. One of its also revenues comes from doing renewable tenders for Indian Railways, which we got a revenue when we finalized one tender of RTC. And we have already other such tenders are in the pipeline. And as we finalize them, this will also add to the revenue.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Viraj with Jupiter Financial. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Would you like to throw some light for the opportunities in terms of IMEC project?
Pardon me?
The IMEC, the one in the Middle East corridor which the government is thinking about, do we have any play there?
The IMEC project. Yeah. The IMEC corridor. So as I mentioned, we have set up offices in UAE. We are working with our two MoU partners there. Also, we are working here in close collaboration with the Shipping Ministry to develop a certain digital interface for this corridor, which is basically for ease of doing business, is a virtual trade corridor. So these are definitely a huge opportunity for us, both in terms of the India side and the UAE side for leveraging opportunities in this IMEC corridor, and I see in the coming years and quarters, definitely some orders more coming up in this.
Okay. And any numbers in terms of addressable market size?
See, this is early days of development of this corridor. And our engagement with various players in this has already started. And it would be unfair to give a number right now, but you can appreciate that the opportunities are huge in our presence there and our MoUs in UAE, as well as our working already with the various stakeholders on the Indian side have opened up a huge number of opportunities. And I'm sure in the coming FY, you will see some finite orders coming up in this regard.
Mr. Viraj, please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Shreyans Mehta with Equirus. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the follow-up. Sir, how should one look at the Bangladesh export order in terms of execution and in terms of working capital? I know we've guided for closer to 40% coming from that 1,300-odd. But primarily, how should one look at the Bangladesh given the recent developments?
You see, Bangladesh is about a INR 900 crore order. And there was a few months of a slight hit in terms of movement of this order, which has resulted in sliding of the execution to the next FY. We were hopeful that we would be able to execute at least 40-odd coaches by this FY. But because of those few months, it has slided into the next FY. But things have really picked up, and we are closely working with the Bangladesh Railway. And I see that execution is definitely going to start by middle or latter part of the coming FY because the initial designs have been submitted for prototypes, and they are under various approvals. And then once that is done, manufacturing is not going to take much time because we have a huge manufacturing capacity.
I see the revenue realization definitely happening by the latter part of the coming FY.
Is there any color on working capital cycle? I mean, will the payments be swift?
So there will be a very minimal working capital requirement, and it will keep coming phase-wise based on the total production that happens. But it will be a very, and that's the basic model. You see, our working capital requirement in all our export orders is not a very substantial amount. It keeps phased out, and we get something advanced also from all the orders. There are milestones for getting some advance. So the working capital requirement is not a very huge amount in any of these export orders.
Thank you. Mr. Mehta, please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Vishal Periwal with Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Just to follow up, I think you did mention that in terms of our consolidated-level growth, we are looking 20-odd%, which is incremental revenue of INR 500-odd crores. And exports, then you mentioned segment-wise 40% execution that itself can give a INR 500-odd crores kind of revenue. But then turnkey and other projects, there will be a bit of growth. So I think is it fair to say probably the growth will be much more than 20-odd% in FY26?
Vishal, I'm glad that you're doing back-of-the-envelope calculations very fast on the numbers, catching on to the figures which I'm seeing. But as I said, 20% is the minimum that we hope. As you can see, the numbers are in front of you, and I'm being very transparent in quoting the numbers and our aspiration also. But I think it's fair enough to say that because this FY has been hit because of the reasons and the breakup that I gave you, already INR 200 crores in nine months. So I think building upon this base, we see at least a 20% growth in the coming FY. But as you see, if you analyze the numbers and the order book, 20% at least is definitely doable.
Okay. Similarly, sir, for the margins again, the shift will be there for turnkey and export. So console-level margins can be a little lower. Although the growth can be there at the top line, but margins can be a little lower. That's probably what I gathered. Is that fair to say that?
You see, the console-level EBITDA margins of 20-odd% and the PAT margins of about 15, 16-odd%, while in a particular quarter moving forward, because of the blend of revenue, may see some variation above this band. But averaged out over six months on an annual basis, considering that we've also got a huge number of consultancy orders, both domestic and very good international orders, and hopeful to get some more international orders, we feel that we should be on an overall averaged-out basis, be able to maintain this range of about console 20%-odd EBITDA margins and PAT margins about 15, 16%.
Thank you. Mr. Parimal, please rejoin the queue for more questions. A reminder to all the participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. Next question comes from the line of Parimal Mithani with Credent Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Sir, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I just wanted to know, going ahead, will we be balancing the consultancy orders more compared to turnkey in terms of maintaining margins?
I'm sorry, your voice cracked, Parimal. Can you repeat?
Going ahead, in terms of order books, basically, consultancy will be more part, or turnkey will be balancing both equally?
So you see, in terms of order size, because turnkey value of orders, they're much big-ticket orders vis-à-vis the consultancy orders, right? So even now, today, but still, because we are still getting a large number of consultancy orders, one order a day overall, 110-plus orders in this quarter, a large number of good consultancy orders also. So INR 8,000 crore order book, also, in spite of turnkey being big-ticket orders, has 2,800 consultancy and 3,600 turnkey. So while they can't be compared in terms of value, but yes, the focus of getting more and more because our strength is consultancy. Even the turnkey orders which we are getting, we are not really a construction company. They are primarily consultancy design orders where the revenue is flowing through our balance sheet. So we are not really a construction company. That's very clear which I've been saying in my previous interactions.
We are a pure consultancy company. And in the turnkey part of the orders are those orders which, where the revenue flows through our balance sheet. But our strength is consultancy design, project management consultancy. So we will continue to focus on getting more and more consultancy orders and their increased execution so that the blended margin still remains at the appreciable levels which I brought out.
Okay, sir. Thank you, sir. Thanks, sir. And all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. Once again, a reminder to all the participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. Next question comes from the line of Viraj with Jupiter Financial. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. I want some color on the export going forward. What kind of the order size will be looking at and per quarter kind of export order, if you can give some guidance on that? And why have been so much delay? The delay in getting export orders is because of the geopolitical reasons or some other issues? That's one question I have.
So second part of your question, you see, it's not we have now started getting export orders after a gap of three, four years. Last four quarters, every quarter, we have got an export order. And this is primarily because earlier for the last four, five decades, we used to get export orders on the line of credit opportunities, which were EOIs floated by the Exim Bank for the line of credit opportunities. With those opportunities completely finishing or becoming very minimal, all these orders which we have got are on global tenders, on orders, on opportunities which have been funded by the client countries or multinational multilateral banks. So these are the kind of opportunities which, as I said, we have bid also in various other tenders in various geographies, whether it is Africa, Southeast Asia, Latin America.
We will aim, aspire to at least continue this trend in the coming quarters also of getting at least one order of an export order in every quarter. The size of these orders, obviously, can vary as you have seen in the INR 1,300-crore order book. They could vary anything from about INR 40-50 crores to anything about INR 200-300 crores or maybe more. But I mean, because we are bidding in all various opportunities, it is very difficult to give one median size of an order. They could be as low as 50-odd crores and could go up to INR 300-500 crores also.
And sir, what would be our margins in the export business? Would be new normal margins would be since we are on a competitive basis. So would it be around what kind of margins we should be looking at?
You see, traditionally, export revenue was in the range of about 20-odd% margins in the line of credit orders. These are all global competitive tenders, and they would have different margins for different bids, definitely substantially lower from the 20-odd%. And as the revenue flows in from different orders in a particular quarter, the blended margins on an export stream of revenue would work out depending on the percentage of contribution of the various orders, but definitely much, much lower than the 20-odd% and would be in the range of about 10-odd% broadly.
That is net margins, right? 10%?
Yes. The EBITDA margins.
EBITDA margins, 10%. Okay.
Yeah.
Okay. Thank you. And all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Vinamra Hirawat with JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Sir, just slightly more technical questions on the two export orders that we have. When will the two orders be fulfilled in terms of are they both three-to-four-year tenders where all the orders will be fulfilled after FY29, FY30? So just some color on that.
No, not really. Not such a long time frame. You see, as far as the coach order is concerned, the Bangladesh Railway is in a huge hurry to get these coaches. They are in extreme shortage of coaches. And except for this delay of a few months, they were, in fact, wanting about 40-odd coaches in this FY only, which has slid by about six-odd months. So I definitely see even the locomotives order from Mozambique Railways, that definitely is moving very fast and will start generating revenue very soon in the coming FY. So with the way things are moving, these two bulk orders, which are there part of the INR 1,300 crores, will definitely not spill over to more than maximum two FYs. That's the max to my assessment.
Okay, so both INR 1,200, 1,300 crores should be booked within two financial years?
Yes, definitely. For sure.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Please give me a moment. Okay. As there are no further questions, I would like to hand the call over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you. So this is a reiteration of our two-pronged focus strategy, which we are very clearly working on right from the beginning of this FY, understanding the overall environment and the change dynamics. The two-pronged focus strategy of improved execution and aggressive order inflows is what Q3 results show. And this is what we assure you that Q4 would continue to move in that direction. And as I said, definitely on this solid base that we have built up due to our team's efforts, we see FY25, 26 building up on this platform by generating both a good top line and a good growth on the bottom line. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you all for being a part of the conference call. If you need any further information or clarification, please email at investors@rites.com. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference for today. Thank you.