R R Kabel Limited (NSE:RRKABEL)
India flag India · Delayed Price · Currency is INR
1,445.00
+13.00 (0.91%)
Apr 24, 2026, 3:29 PM IST
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Q3 24/25

Jan 29, 2025

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q3 FY25 Earnings Conference Call of R R Kabel Ltd. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing the star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ronak Jain from Orient Capital, the Investor Relations. Thank you, and over to you.

Ronak Jain
Head of Investor Relations, Orient Capital

Thank you, Steve. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of R R Kabel Ltd, I extend a very warm welcome to all participants on Q3 FY25 Earnings Conference Call of R R Kabel Ltd. Today, on this call, we have Mr. Shreegopal Kabra Sir, Managing Director, and Mr. Rajesh Jain, Chief Financial Officer. Before we begin this call, I would like to give a short disclaimer. This call may contain some of the forward-looking statements, which are completely based upon our beliefs, opinions, and expectations as of today. These statements are not guarantees for our future performance and involve unforeseen risks and uncertainties. With this, I hand over the call to Shreegopal Kabra Sir. Over to you, sir. Thank you.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Good afternoon. On behalf of R R Kabel Ltd, I extend a warm welcome to all participants on our Q3 FY25 Financial Results Conference Call. I am joined today along with our CFO, Mr. Rajesh Jain. Despite navigating through a challenging macroeconomic environment characterized by slowdown in the economy, political transition, and volatile commodity prices, we are pleased to announce our highest ever revenue for the nine-month period of FY25. This achievement is a testament to the strength of our business model and our ability to adapt to dynamic market conditions. Our cable and wire segment demonstrated moderate volume growth on a nine-month FY25 basis, supported by steady demand, fundamentals especially in cable business. Additionally, our FMEG segment continued its impressive trajectory, delivering a robust revenue growth of approximately 25% during this period.

This growth was driven by strong volume performance and improved productivity and leadership in key categories such as fans, reinforcing our position as one of the fastest-growing players in this space. We remain committed to achieving break-even in FMEG business by early FY26. Despite the downturn in the external environment, the demand for cables and wires remains resilient. To capitalize on this demand, we continue to undertake several strategic initiatives, including capacity expansion, the introduction of high-margin products, new launches, and ongoing expansions of our distribution network. These initiatives are progressing as planned and are aligned with our long-term strategy to enhance growth and profitability. Looking ahead, we are focused on achieving double-digit EBITDA margins in the coming years. Our efforts remain centered on strengthening our operational efficiencies, enhancing our product portfolio, and delivering sustainable value to all stakeholders.

With that, I would like to hand over the call to our CFO, Mr. Rajesh Jain, to take this discussion forward. Rajesh, over to you.

Rajesh Jain
CFO, R R Kabel Ltd

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us on this earnings call. As we reflect on Q3 FY25, I would like to share some insights into the factors influencing our performance and our outlook for the remainder of the fiscal year. India's GDP growth moderated in Q2 FY25 compared to Q1, and this deceleration had varying impacts across sectors. Moreover, the sectors faced added pressure from copper price volatility, a key determinant of material costs. On the export front, the environment remained challenging during nine months of FY25. Weak economic conditions, shipment delays, and logistical disruptions, exacerbated by geopolitical factors like the Red Sea crisis, adversely affected export demand during the period. Despite this, the export revenues saw an increase of 11% YOY in Q3. Additionally, we have been actively working on securing new certifications to strengthen our position in global markets and ensure readiness for future opportunities.

Domestically, despite slowdown in the economy, we have seen 6% growth YOY in Q3. Looking ahead, we anticipate a significant boost in infrastructure and housing activity driven by higher government spending, positioning us for a robust recovery in the coming quarter. Now, talking on the financials and operating highlights of Q3 FY25, in Q3 FY25, revenue reached INR 1,782 crores, reflecting a 9.1% year-on-year growth. This performance was supported by growth in both wires and cables and FMEG segment. On a nine-month FY25 basis, revenue grew by approximately 12%, achieving our highest-ever revenue of INR 5,400 crores compared to the same period last year. Operating EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 111 crores, while profit after tax amounted to INR 68.6 crores. The marginal reduction in EBITDA and PAT was presumably due to the impact of volatile commodity prices in the first half of FY25.

However, this was a temporary phenomenon, and sequential growth in margins indicated a stabilizing trend. Segment-wise performance in the wire and cable business recorded a revenue of INR 1,543 crores in Q3 FY25, up from INR 1,433 crores in Q3 FY24, making a YOY growth of approximately 8%. On a nine-month FY25 basis, the segment achieved a revenue of INR 4,732 crores, a growth of approximately 10% compared to INR 4,306 crores in nine-month FY24. Revenue growth was driven by improved realization along with strong growth in cable business. The segment profit stood at 7%, although the same is lower YOY due to volatile metal prices. Margins improved sequentially, reflecting our focus on cost management and operational efficiency. In the export market, which contributed around 27% of our total revenue in Q3 FY25, resilience was evident despite some headwinds. Efforts to enhance our global presence have positioned us well to capitalize on future opportunities.

Domestically, strong demand, especially in cable, and ongoing strategic initiatives continue to support growth, and we remain confident in achieving sustained progress as we move forward. Guidance: If we see about wire and cable, given the high volatility in copper prices during the first half of FY25 and the subsequent softening observed in recent months, we are gradually getting back on track. The improved stability in commodity prices has provided some relief, and we are optimistic about future margin improvements. We continue to anticipate a volume growth of approximately 15% in the last quarter, which should help us to achieve an overall volume growth in the range of 10% - 12% for FY25. In Q3 FY25, our segment profit in the wire and cable showed sequential improvement, and we remain confident in achieving a margin in the range of approximately 8% in the last quarter.

For the nine-month FY25 period, our margin stood at approximately 6.4%, reflecting the challenges earlier in the year. On the export front, looking to improvement in business scenario, we expect that our export growth will be on a normal track back with additional certifications. Further, with favorable changes in the product mix and additional capacity building, we are confident of growth and margin improvement. In the FMEG business segment, we achieved a robust revenue of approximately INR 240 crores in Q3 FY25, continuing to deliver consistent growth in the range of 20%-25% on a quarterly basis. For the nine-month FY25 period, we recorded a revenue growth of approximately 25% compared to nine-month FY24. This impressive performance was presumably driven by strong volume growth in fans, which remained the largest contributor of our segment revenue, followed by growth in appliances and switches.

On segment margin, we saw remarkable improvement, depicting a reduction in losses significantly both year-on-year and sequentially, supported by operational cost savings and a slight increase in contribution from an optimized product mix and volume growth. These accomplishments have solidified our standing as a key growth leader in the FMEG segment, and we remain dedicated to maintaining this momentum in the future. Additionally, we have successfully maintained our working capital days broadly in the range of 60%-65% days as of December 31st, 2024, further underscoring our commitment to sound financial management and operational efficiency. The current CapEx cycle continues to remain on track. Further, the company plans to incur approximately INR 1,200 crores CapEx over the period of the next three years. This will help the company to boost its top line by another INR 4,000-INR 4,500 crores annually.

Beyond CapEx, our strategic priorities continue to progress well in Q3 of FY25. Additionally, we are on track to increase our revenue contribution from the cable segment from 30% - 35%. This initiative positions us for sustained growth and enhanced market presence in the coming quarters. Our FMEG segment is progressing well with continuous initiatives, including new product launches, premiumization, and expanding geographical reach. These measures are designed to bring us closer to break-even in the near future. While we are navigating through some short-term challenges, we remain confident that these strategic actions will foster long-term growth and profitability. With this overview, I would now like to open the floor for questions. Thank you for your attention and continued support.

Operator

Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Praveen Sahay from PL Capital. Please go ahead.

Praveen Sahay
Analyst, PL Capital

Yeah, hi sir. Thank you for taking my question. The first question is related to the guidance you had given: 15% volume growth for Q4 and so as for the year 10%-12%. So how is the volume growth in the nine months? Is it in the single digit? So 10%-12% for the entire year is achievable with a 15% growth in the fourth quarter?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Yes, so if you see on nine-month basis, our volume growth is around 6%. So, if we achieve this volume growth of 15% in Q4, in that range.

Praveen Sahay
Analyst, PL Capital

Okay. And in this, related to that, 15% of volume growth, are you seeing any kind of attraction, especially in your majority segment, which is the wire?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Yeah, so we are of late. At the end of Q3 and even at the beginning of Q4, we have seen good demand in wire. So earlier in Q3, like channel was also not taking so much stock, so channel was very light at that time. And now inventory is building up, and we are getting good demand in Q4 also. So it seems other than cable, where already we have very good demand, even the wire segment will also see good growth in Q4.

Praveen Sahay
Analyst, PL Capital

Okay. And can you give the CapEx number for nine months and the 25 and 26 respectively?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

So if you see overall CapEx plan, which was planned till FY25, which was INR 500 crores spent in the last two years, so it is on track. Like some of the capacity was added in Q3 also, especially in power cable. And now going ahead also, the majority of the CapEx will be completed by March 2025, and a few capacity will be added out of this CapEx by September 2025 also.

Praveen Sahay
Analyst, PL Capital

So our contribution of cable has increased because of this capacity expansion?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Yeah, but we got only part of this year only. This added capacity was available only partly in this year only. But if you see on a quarterly basis, of course, our contribution from cable is increasing. And as you have already seen that our cable growth is like almost 20%.

Praveen Sahay
Analyst, PL Capital

20% for this quarter or nine months? How is that?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

On a nine-month basis, our volume growth is almost 20% in cable.

Praveen Sahay
Analyst, PL Capital

Okay. And on the export, as you had mentioned, shipment delay and Red Sea crisis all led to the impact in the export. How are you seeing in the export business right now? Is that it started picking up, and these prices have somewhere subsided?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Yes, already now prices have come down, logistics prices also. And even from the demand point of view, like now at the end of Q3, we have seen good demand in the export segment also. So now it will be on a normal track sequentially in Q4 and onwards.

Praveen Sahay
Analyst, PL Capital

How is the Q3 for export?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Q3, again, since our major part of exports go to Europe, and normally due to the December-end leaves in Europe, so there was less shipment. Traditionally, also, it is always less shipment in the November, October and November months. Now exports have picked up in the month of December onwards.

Praveen Sahay
Analyst, PL Capital

Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir, and all the best. I'll come in a queue.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

The next question is from the line of Rahul Agarwal from Ikigai Asset Management. Please go ahead.

Rahul Agarwal
Analyst, Ikigai Asset Management

Yeah, hi sir. Good afternoon, and congratulations for recovery in margins. Sir, one question was just wanted to hear your thoughts on what's really happening on wire, both in India and exports. So you explained a bit in the earlier question, but just wanted to be more specific. What should we expect in terms of revenue run rates for exports in India for wire over the next three to six months? Could you just help us understand that, please? Thank you.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Thanks, Rahul. So you have seen that though there were challenges and situations were different, but our growth in terms of revenue and volume were almost similar in both the markets, export and domestic as well. Now going forward, as I explained to you now, like our channel is also picking up the demand and looking to the positive momentum in copper prices. Also, we have seen good growth, at least at the end of Q3 and at the beginning of Q4 as well. So it seems now like whatever there was a degrowth in the first half of the year or even in exports also due to other challenges, now it will be on the track, and we will work like planning we have made for 15% volume growth is achievable by focusing or by having growth from both the segments, be it domestic or export.

Rahul Agarwal
Analyst, Ikigai Asset Management

Exports specifically, could you help us understand more as in apart from Europe, what else are we doing? What should be the quarterly run rates?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

In exports, the good part is that we have again some very good orders in the cable segment. In the future also, like our focus is more on exports of cable where we have comparatively higher margins. Whatever developments we have made in these first nine months also, and now also we are in the process of getting certification from Europe as well as the U.S. also, which will give us additional growth.

Rahul Agarwal
Analyst, Ikigai Asset Management

Got it, sir. Got it. Thank you so much. All the best.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Okay. Thanks.

Operator

The next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from Nuvama Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

Yeah, good afternoon, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, if you could just give a specific sense about the volume growth for the nine months in terms of domestic cable growth and domestic wires growth, please? Volume growth.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Sure. So on nine months versus nine months, our total growth is around 5%, where cable is 20%, and wire is negative in the range of 3%. But when we see in terms of export and domestic, then wire in domestic and export, both were impacted by almost negative 9%, while cable has grown in domestic, it is 18%, and in export, it is 7%.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

Sorry. In wire, the export is minus 9%. Is that so? YOY for nine months volume?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Yes.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

Okay. And domestic, how much did you say, sir? I didn't follow that.

Rahul Agarwal
Analyst, Ikigai Asset Management

It is -1.9.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

-1.9%. Yeah, yeah. And domestic also similar number? Domestic would be more?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Domestic is almost 10%.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

- 10%. Is that so? Okay. So is that the industry trend according to you, or is there any specific reason for us to have a lower domestic wires volume growth?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

No. So as I explained earlier, in domestic, of course, when we are comparing on nine months versus nine months, the major impact was in the first half of this year only.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

Right. No, fair point. So you're saying basically the industry would be flattish, would have also seen a decline, or would have seen some growth? I'm just trying to figure that out in your estimate.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Sorry, can you come back again?

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

For the industry, for the wires industry, the volumes will be flat, would have seen some growth, or would have seen also a decline for nine months?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

For nine months, it seems the industry had also pressure in the wire growth, and cable was doing good. Though we do not have exact backup from peers also, as public figures are not available, but still, what we understand based on our input and channel say, that it seems the wire was almost having less growth in compared to cable.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

Understood. And now help us understand in terms of the cables, the capacity, where are we in terms of addition? You said there will be some capacity which will come by March, and some will come by September. So what is the potential revenue of cables out of these two and existing capacities put together?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

So what happened with CapEx? What we have done, we have potential to have a further growth of around INR 2,500 crores. But since this will be on sequential growth, will be there. So this CapEx will help us to meet the additional growth demand of FY26 and FY27.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

Understood. And the next round of CapEx, I was a bit confused. You said INR 1,200 crores over the next three years. Is that so?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Yes.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

Which these three years are, sir? It is 2026, 2027, 2028, or 2025, 2026, 2027?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

2026, 2027, 2028. Because see, what CapEx already we have done, it will be completed by March 2025. So what CapEx I'm narrating is INR 1,200 crores is for the next three years, starting from FY25 onwards.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

Understood. And can you be a little bit more specific, sir, on this INR 1,200 crores? Where is it going to spend in terms of location and in terms of which category?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

This will be like a greenfield project in the existing facility at Waghodia, which is near Vadodara. Majority of this export will be in cable only because still our share in cable is very less, and we have high potential growth area also. It will be like balanced with wire growth in wire as well to have sequential growth over year on year. Majority of my CapEx will be focused on cable only.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

So is it fair to say like 70%-80% of this?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Yes. Almost 80% will go in the cable.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

So almost INR 1,000 crores, and that would give what, incremental INR 5,000 crores of revenue?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

No, no. On consolidated basis, it will be in the range of INR 4,000-INR 4,500 crores because majority of the cable wire, as per thumb rule, you can expect a return of sales cycle of 3x, 3-3.5x only.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

3x-3.5x. Understood.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

For cable.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

Understood.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Just, I would like to clarify on volumes because I mentioned the figures on YOY basis. So just to clarify the volume growth on nine months versus nine months basis, my domestic wire was almost flat while cable grew by 21%.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

Okay.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Export wire was negative by 5.6%, while cable was 18.5%.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

Understood. So last question, if I may, with respect to the exports. Can you help us understand in terms of particularly to U.S., how large is for us U.S. market out of the total export? And in terms of the SKUs, whatever U.S. imports, do we have all the capability certifications? What percentage of their imports we are entitled for or eligible for?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

As of now, almost 10% of my revenue is coming from U.S. In this quarter, we have in the process, almost we have received the certification of one and two products. To get that streamlined, I think by next quarter, we will start another new product in U.S. market. In this quarter, we may not see huge growth in U.S. exports, but from next year onwards, we can see good improvement in our exports in U.S.A.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

Understood. Just to drill on this, who do we compete here, which country, and what advantage or disadvantage we are against the other exporters in terms of percentage of the value?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Every market has different competition. In Europe, we have competition from Turkey, while in U.S., still China is the largest supplier of cable, though now the tax and import duties are not favorable to them also. Right now, it seems India still has a lot of export potential, and we are a very small contributor in overall exports at international level. We have good scope to improve, particularly in U.S. and Europe.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

Got it. And just to clarify, 10% of export revenue is from U.S. or 10% of total revenue is from U.S.?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Of total export only.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

Of export revenue. Okay. Europe is the largest. Got it.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Europe is like more than 50%.

Achal Lohade
Executive Director, Nuvama Institutional Equities

Got it. Got it. Thank you so much. I'll call back in a few, sir. Thank you.

Operator

The next question is from the line of Natasha Jain from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead.

Natasha Jain
Analyst, PhillipCapital

Thank you for the opportunity and good afternoon, sir. So my first question is on the export mix. So out of the 27% of your exports, how much is wires and how much is cables currently?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

So it's like a 70/30 ratio of 27%. So what happens at the overall basis also, our wire and cable ratio is 70/30 now, which is moving towards improvement in cable, which is moving by 1% or 2% every quarter. And in export also, we are almost maintaining the same ratio.

Natasha Jain
Analyst, PhillipCapital

Understood. Sir, so when you say 1% or 2% every quarter, next year, next financial year, when your cable capacities come up, can we expect this shift to move to at least 60/40 in terms of exports?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

40, but maybe 35 or 65.

Natasha Jain
Analyst, PhillipCapital

All right. So 35 of your exports would be your cable exports?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Yeah, and similarly, we are expecting domestic as well, so I'm seeing here even at company level, we try to improve our cable sales ratio, and it may now by next year, and it may in the range of 65/35.

Natasha Jain
Analyst, PhillipCapital

Got it. Sir, and a question on wires again. So wires, what I understood is at least at an Indian industry level, there is overcapacity for wires. Now, I want to understand, is this market a very brand-conscious market? Because otherwise, scaling up of capacities is very easy for wires. So having said that, do you see any near-term risk for wires as a product category?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

So yeah, good part about the Indian wire market that this is like now it is directly B2C category product where people care about brand quality, and it is like B2C category. And day by day, the organized sector is getting more market share. Of course, our competition will always be there, but it is more about how you build your brand, how you generate or get pull factor in market. So it is all about marketing effort as well as focus on your quality. And even when we see like offline, we have seen that after this GST or Demonetization, we have seen that day by day, organized share is increasing. So it's about the big brands or all top tiers, how they achieve or how they improve their market share.

Natasha Jain
Analyst, PhillipCapital

Got it, sir. So you mentioned in your opening comments about the governmental CapEx slowdown, which is obviously there. So I want to understand, can that pose a near-term risk for us or, in fact, for the industry? Because a lot of cables capacity will come live in calendar 2025. So any slowdown in governmental CapEx and then a slowdown in power distribution and then a slowdown in cables, do you see that as a risk in, say, the next one-year time frame?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

What I consider that decreasing government spending was temporary. Because if India has to focus on growth or if we have to build infrastructure, then government has to focus on spending, and they have to increase spending. We may wait for some time how government declaring budget also. But fundamentally, I believe that there will always be a good scope of improvement in infrastructure investment, and therefore, wire and cable demand will always be there. And even whatever additional capacity we see, it is in the building, still there will be more demand in terms of export market as well as India spending on infrastructure building.

Natasha Jain
Analyst, PhillipCapital

So it's safe to say that the capacities that are coming live will still be short in terms of what the demand for cables is?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

At least for next three, four years, it seems like there will be shortage of supply only.

Natasha Jain
Analyst, PhillipCapital

Got it. And so last question, if I may, you mentioned about the Red Sea crisis, which affected your exports. So has that kind of eased down now? And what about the freight charges? Has that also softened?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

So, freight charge, of course, they have softened, and we have seen reduction in freight to Europe as well as USA also. Yeah, the Red Sea crisis also, to some extent, it has eased up. And there are some delays, but now it is not external delays. And I think our people have also adjusted their delays in their shipping requirements.

Natasha Jain
Analyst, PhillipCapital

Got it, sir. Thank you and all the very best.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Thank you very much.

Operator

The next question is from the line of Manoj Gori from Equirus Capital. Please go ahead.

Manoj Gori
Analyst, Equirus Capital

Yeah, thank you for the opportunity, sir. Sir, since over the last one, one and a half years, we have been targeting to scale up our presence into HT or probably into newer geographies, and we believe this should have resulted in better than industry growth rate, especially in the wires. Wires, we do understand that there have been underlying demand challenges, but ideally, we should have outperformed the industry and probably the geographical strength that we were looking to build. That's not visible in the numbers, so can you throw some light? Where are we lagging or probably what's actually obstructing this growth? That's my first question, sir.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Yeah, I can understand. Of course, we have grown better than industry pace also, and there were challenges. It doesn't mean that we were not having efforts towards that. But the corporate-wise volatility has affected more in compared to other industries there in the first half of this year, and that's why we have seen lesser growth. But on the basis of fundamentals where we are working, first, we are based in quality in terms of we are the only company in REACH and RoHS compliance. Same way, even our loyalty management program is the largest in the industry. So there are some short-term impacts, but fundamentally, still we are confident that we will do better than industry efforts.

Manoj Gori
Analyst, Equirus Capital

So I will ask it a bit differently. So probably in the last one and a half year, can you throw some light? Which are the new geographies that you have ventured into and how things are progressing over there?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

So if you see our current strength, we are very strong in west and north part of the country. But still, we have to weigh our path of growth or improving our market share in southern part of the country and east part of the country. So now we have a good network of dealer and distributor, but still we were not able to get the quantum what we were looking for. And it seems now since we have already made the best, so now it is time how we did that effort and how we get the results of our investment, what we have done in previous year or even current year, nine months in this new geography. But it will be more from southern and eastern part of the country.

Manoj Gori
Analyst, Equirus Capital

Okay. And sir, lastly, if I may, how do you read the overall underlying demand environment? We know it's challenging, but probably long-term macros obviously will continue to remain intact. But probably from a six-month or to nine-month period, overall, if you look at underlying demand for last couple of years for wires as a category has been under pressure. So if you can throw some light, how do you read the situation for the industry in specific?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

So when we see at GDP level, we have seen some downward trend in GDP when public figures available for first half of this year. So there was some pressure, and still there are some pressure in wire, especially in wire. But overall, if you see at micro level, there are good demand, at least in cable. And there are so many reasons. First and biggest is this wind and solar. So moving towards this non-traditional power generation, there are a lot of opportunities out there. Same way, infrastructure work, its pace was slow in first half, but now it seems to be on track. So fundamentally, it seems to be even in short term or a little bit longer term also, wire may have some challenges, but cable, of course, has very good growth, and wire also sequentially it has to grow.

Manoj Gori
Analyst, Equirus Capital

Right, sir. Thank you. Wish you all the best.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shrinidhi Karlekar from HSBC. Please go ahead.

Shrinidhi Karlekar
Analyst, HSBC

Hi. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on good improvement in margin. Sir, a couple of questions just for clarification on guidance for Q4. Are you saying cable and wire EBIT margin can go to 8% from 7% in Q3?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Yes, yes. So what we have seen, 8% even last year, our overall margins were in the range of 8.4%. And looking to the trend of last quarter also and current trend, it seems we will be able to achieve 8% kind of EBIT margin for Q4.

Shrinidhi Karlekar
Analyst, HSBC

Right, and the second question is, in the quarter gone by, did you face capacity constraint in the cable business?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Yes. Cables, always we are getting those challenges, particularly in HT cable, where we have very limited capacity. And still, though we have added some capacity in Q3 also, but I think we can have some relaxation in terms of capacity constraint in Q4. And later on next year, onwards, we will have some capacity.

Shrinidhi Karlekar
Analyst, HSBC

Sir, last one, when you say you aspire to reach you have a long-term vision of reaching double-digit EBITDA margins. Here, are we specifically talking about the cable and wire business, or we're talking about at the company level? In what time frame are you trying to achieve that?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

So for both, of course, we have to achieve this. At the company level also, we are trying to get double-digit margins, but first, we will get in wire and cable. And it is expected that by FY28, we can expect double-digit margins at company level also.

Shrinidhi Karlekar
Analyst, HSBC

Okay. Thank you for answering my question, and all the very best.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Thank you.

Operator

Before we take the next question, we would like to remind participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Naushad Chaudhary from Aditya Birla Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.

Naushad Chaudhary
Analyst, Aditya Birla Mutual Fund

Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Two clarifications, sir. Firstly, I was just curious to understand in terms of what specific calculation you have and what is the max you have that makes you believe that there will not be a supply issue or there will not be a capacity step-up issue in the industry, especially in cable business, why there should be a continued supply shortage for the next two, three years? What is the calculation you have that makes you believe this?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Naushad, if you see the capacity of all the big players of particularly cable manufacturers, and the way Indian cable growth is growing. Normally, it seems to be by looking at the plan of government or development infrastructure or development in wind, solar, power generation, or even the opportunity in the export market. Even if this industry, particularly in cable, if it grows by, say, 20%, then the sum of this industry average may not suffice to supply all CapEx. Because now these days, even the CapEx cycle is almost 24-30 months to get whatever capacity you are building. Even in our case, CapEx started in FY24, now it is getting completed. In that way, it seems India has more growth opportunities than what capacity it is getting built up.

Already we have seen that even last year or in this year also, there was huge supply shortage, at least in power cable.

Naushad Chaudhary
Analyst, Aditya Birla Mutual Fund

Yes, sir, but historically, if we look at the industry CapEx average, if we look at last three years, five years, so broadly, it has been in the range of between 700, 800, or max 1,000. Last year was a peak in terms of capacity addition from a CapEx point of view, and next two, three years, it is going up substantially. And we have seen the peak of demand for 24. And on that basis, we have to grow. And with this kind of capacity, at least we should have some very strong visibility, at least in one or two pieces of end-user industry where we are confident that this should be able to help to absorb all these capacities.

The only thing, the kind of run rate, which used to be INR 1,000 crore, has gone up to INR 4,000 crore annual gross block addition in the industry started from FY24, should be a problem in FY25, FY26. At least for short term, we understand the growth point of view. But because this is B2B, everybody's capacity would come together. At least for short-term period, everybody would fight to absorb this capacity. Short term, we think we might have to compromise on the margin side. And long term, I believe it's okay. Five years, this capacity would be absorbed. But short term, one has to compromise on the margin to fill the capacity.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

So first, regarding demand, I must clarify that you have to see, even if you see the way government has planned the growth in solar power generation, what we have done till now, five times more is government is planning in the next four, five years. So even if it happens not in four years, but in six, seven years, you can assume the quantum of solar cable will be required. Same way, the infrastructure, though this year, we have seen some slow growth in the first six months. But still, if India has to grow, then we have to invest in infrastructure growth. Thirdly, even in export opportunity, we have seen a very good demand. Earlier, there were hardly any exports of wire and cable. And now we have seen good demand from Europe or U.S.A. also.

So that is giving us the confidence that in long term, there will be a good demand. Even at our level, when we are a very small player in cable and our capacity is very limited, we know there is huge potential of expansion and growth. And that is also without compromising on price. So we are confident to have a higher growth in cable segment in coming years.

Naushad Chaudhary
Analyst, Aditya Birla Mutual Fund

Okay. And second, on the margin side, can you share the specific levers which you have which makes you believe that your 6% should go to double-digit? What should drive it?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Yes. So, two or three reasons are there we are working. First, last year, we were in the range of 7%. So though this year, we have seen this growth, but even if we take the improvement of 100 to 120 basis points year on year, then we can be by FY28, we can be in the double digit. And this will be backed by my first changing product mix where we are improving our margins. We are having high-margin products like export of cables or solar cable or specialized cables. And plus, we will get the benefit of scale also. So this will give improvement in our margins.

Naushad Chaudhary
Analyst, Aditya Birla Mutual Fund

So your first lever is changing product mix, export of power cable, solar cable. Would it come at the cost of the overall business economics in terms of do you have to compromise on the working capital or have to deploy some more money to get this 1% margin?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

No. The working capital cycle is only 60 days, which is almost at the best of the industry average. And export doesn't mean that I will need higher inventory or higher working capital. So this is affecting all the factors we are saying that our margins will improve. Even my scale will improve, so I'll get a cost-benefit advantage also.

Naushad Chaudhary
Analyst, Aditya Birla Mutual Fund

Okay. Okay. All the above. Thank you.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

The next question is from the line of Rohan Vora from Envision Capital. Please go ahead.

Rohan Vora
Analyst, Envision Capital

Hello, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. So sir, to one of the previous questions that you answered, you said that volatility in.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

I'm sorry to interrupt. Mr. Rohan, your volume is coming very low.

Rohan Vora
Analyst, Envision Capital

Is it better now?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Yeah. Thank you.

Rohan Vora
Analyst, Envision Capital

Yes. So thank you for the opportunity, sir. So one of the previous answers, you mentioned that volatility in copper impacted us more than the other industry players. So just a little bit more color on how that was the case and what we've done so that this is not repeated going forward. Because that resulted in us losing market share in wires. So that is why this is option one. Thank you.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Yeah. So Rohan, what I meant to say by more impact of volatility in my margins because we are having highest revenue coming from wire, which is B2C product. And what happens, always there will be time lag between passing on the prices of whatever raw material prices has been changed. The only extraordinary thing that happened in the first half of this year was that there was a sudden rise in the copper prices. And by the time we could pass on that price rise of impact to our consumer, the copper prices again came down very sharply. So if there is too much volatility within a very small span of time, then of course, we may have some impact in our profitability. But overall, it will be always passing on the effect of copper prices to consumers. So this was kind of one-time-only effect.

Rohan Vora
Analyst, Envision Capital

Okay. Understood. And sir, so second question was, sorry if it is a repetitive one, the capacity that is coming in the coming quarter. So how much volume growth would that enable us to do? And what is the color on FY26 volume growth that you're looking at? Thank you.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

This overall CapEx has a probability or possibility of adding top line of INR 2,500 crore. Looking to our historical growth and even our current expansion plan, for this Q4, we are planning having volume growth of 15%. For coming years, we are making detailed plans and will give guidelines by end of Q4.

Rohan Vora
Analyst, Envision Capital

Sure, sir. Thank you so much.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

The next question is from the line of Praveen Sahay from PL Capital. Please go ahead.

Praveen Sahay
Analyst, PL Capital

Yeah. Hi. Thank you for a follow-up. My question related to the FMEG business. There, you had mentioned that there is a very strong volume growth in the fans. So if you can give some color on this in the nine-month growth you had achieved, how much is from the wires segment and also volume value mix if you can give how much is like for 23% of a growth comes from the volume and how much is the value? And related to that, by when you are expecting to achieve a break-even in this segment?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

In FMEG, we have seen a very good growth in fans, particularly in fans. Earlier, almost 40% revenue was coming from fans. Now it has increased to 45%. In lights also, we have seen a very good growth, but due to that price rationalization and negative pricing in lighting, the growth is flat at value level. At the same time, we have seen very good growth in appliances also. By the broader product mix in our FMEG, like 45% revenue is coming from fans, 32% is coming from lights, and the rest 23% is coming from appliances and switches. When we talk about break-even, as I mentioned earlier also, we are expecting that Q1 of next FY26, that is like June 2025 quarter, we will be able to come into the green at that level.

Praveen Sahay
Analyst, PL Capital

Right. And volume growth, can you give color on that? So out of a 23% of a growth, how much is from the volume?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

So approach, though I do not have exact backup of this, but 55% growth came in FAN segment. And 20% of our sales in FAN came from new products which we introduced in this year. And we are getting almost 23%-25% revenue in FAN from premium category. So this is a very broad backup of our FMEG sales.

Praveen Sahay
Analyst, PL Capital

Right, sir. And how much of the CapEx is planned in this segment? And at what level of utilization of your capacity currently in?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

So in FMEG, we have not made any big CapEx plan. It will be very small, like in the range of INR 20-INR 25 crores only. Because still, majority of our FMEG, we are sourcing through third-party only. So almost two-thirds of my revenue is coming from on trading basis, and only one-third is coming through manufacturing.

Praveen Sahay
Analyst, PL Capital

Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thanks.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Okay.

Operator

The next question is from the line of Shivam Khare from 3A Financial Services. Please go ahead.

Hello. I'm audible?

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Yes, please.

So I just wanted to know the capacity utilization over the segment?

Yeah, so particularly in wire, we are at 65%-70%, while in cable, we are already at 90%-95% capacity utilization.

90%-95% in cable, right?

Yeah.

What about the order book, the current order book and the targeted order book as well over the next couple of years?

So here, since we are more into B2C category also, so it is an ongoing project, and we do not have very long order book where we have orders of two years or three years or one year since major cable sales is B2C category. So it is a continuous process.

Okay, and any revenue guidance as a business as a whole, where do we see ourselves in the next four years or something by 2030 or something like that with the data centers and everything coming up?

We are making our detailed vision statement and growth plan, which we'll give by next quarter.

Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you. That's awesome.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today's conference call. I now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments.

Shreegopal Kabra
Managing Director, R R Kabel Ltd

Thank you everyone for joining this call. We appreciate your participation. If you have any questions or queries, please feel free to reach out to us directly or contact Orient Capital. We look forward to connecting with you again next quarter. Thank you.

Operator

On behalf of R R Kabel Ltd, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.

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