Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q1 FY 2025 earnings conference call of Steel Authority of India, hosted by Nuvama Wealth Management. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ashish Kejriwal from Nuvama Wealth Management. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Siddhant. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Nuvama Institutional Equities, we welcome you all again for SAIL Q1 FY 2025 post results call. We are pleased to have, with us Mr. Anil Tulsiani, Director of Finance, along with his team. Now, I would request, Mr. Tulsiani for his opening remarks, and then we can open the floor for Q&A. Over to you, sir.
Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Ashish. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome all our investors and analysts who are joining this results con call for the financial results of SAIL for the period Q1, financial year 2024-2025. The performance of the industry in general, and SAIL in particular, has been impacted significantly due to the softening of the steel prices on the back of international price trend. I believe you would have already seen the results on the website of the company and stock exchanges. I would briefly run through the same before the, before we move to the question and answer session, where we would be happy to address your queries.
Coming to the world economic scenario, the economic scenario across the globe has been impacted in recent times by inflationary forces and consequent monetary tightening policies to counter the same supply chain disruptions, geopolitical crisis, et cetera. The scenario has, however, been showing a gradual improvement. Especially the emerging and developing economies have outperformed their advanced counterparts. As inflation subsides gradually, the banks have also eased monetary policy. These have tracked a steady path for the economy, with estimates for current year 2023 for the calendar year 2023 at 3.3%. As for the IMF World Economic Outlook, published in July 2024, predictions for 2024, calendar year 2024, 2025 and 2025, 2025 stands at 3.2% and 3.3% respectively.
At the same time, the renewed geopolitical tensions, risk of elevated inflation, especially in the services sector due to higher nominal wages, accompanied by relatively low, lower productivity, pose a downside risk to the growth, which economies need to guard against. Now, coming to the Indian economy. India has countered the forces of inflation better than the other economies, thereby maintaining relatively stability in the markets. The revised data on financial year 2024 has led to practically all agencies raising the estimates for the year upwards. As for MOSPI, the estimates for the year now stand at 8.2%, instead of the earlier projection of 7.6%. The sustained momentum in manufacturing and services, high frequency of investment activity, government's continued thrust on infrastructure development, expansion in steel consumption, improved prospects in private consumption, et cetera, all point to a robust outlook.
The projections by major agencies like RBI, World Bank, IMF, etc., the economy is poised to grow between 6.7%-7.2% over the next 2 years, helping it maintain its position as one of the fastest growing among the major economies. Now, coming to the world steel scenario. The global steel industry continues to be impacted on account of several factors like high inflation, rising geopolitical uncertainties, etc. The demand in China, the biggest producer and consumer of steel, is a cause of worry. The consumption in the real estate investment has been consistently coming down. Though production in China during H1 calendar year 2024 declined by 1.1% over CPLY, but the growth in steel demand continues to be negative. As for WSA, the same is expected to contract by around 1% in 2025.
Also, the steel growth in the European Union remains the region with the biggest challenges. Multiple factors, like geopolitical shifts, high energy and commodity prices, led to a substantial 10% decline year-on-year. The region is, however, expected to recover in coming years, with a growth of 2.9% and 5.3% in 2024 and 2025 respectively. The overall growth in demand is poised to turn positive, with WSA forecasting a 1.7% and 1.2% growth in steel demand during 2024 and 2025, respectively, with countries like India, Russia, Germany, Iran, et cetera, driving the growth. Indian steel industry has consistently been growing in terms of production as well as consumption numbers in the past, in the post-COVID era.
During H1 2025 as well, crude steel production as well as finished steel consumption have grown by around 5% and 10%-15% respectively. As for the WSA, India remains one of the strongest drivers of demand for steel since 2021 and projected to grow at more than 8% in near future. Indian steel demand will continue to charge ahead, driven by continued growth in all steel using sectors and especially by continued strong growth in infrastructure investment. With the price of imported coal declining of late, the industry can also heave a sigh of relief on the cost front. However, with prices of steel softening in the international market, this may impact the margins for steel plant.
The company's performance for the quarter is that crude steel production stood at 4.683 million tonnes, whereas saleable steel production stood at 4.182 million tonnes. Saleable steel sales volume stood at 4.012 million tonnes, registering a growth of 3.3% over CPLY. In fact, the domestic sales have grown by 5%, but exports have registered a substantial decline. The turnover stood at INR 23,764 crore due to decline in the price realization. On the profitability front, the company registered an EBITDA of INR 2,420 crore, an improvement of around 16% over CPLY of INR 2,090 crore.
In the area of operational efficiency, the company has been making steady progress for reducing coal coke consumption, increasing the use of CDI, bringing down the specific energy consumption and improving BF productivity. Continuing with the drive towards improving the product mix, the proportion of semis and saleable steel production stood at 15% by engaging conversion services in and around the plant and the demand sector, and the percentage share of semis in sales has been lower at 7%. Going forward, the boost from the various measures being taken by the government on infrastructure spending bodes well for the steel demand in the country, with the overall outlook positive for the sustained growth in domestic consumption, we are hopeful of the realization and consequently, the margin will improve for the company in the quarters to come.
As mentioned earlier, the company is making all out efforts to bring down the costs by diversifying the sources of coal, improving the techno-economic parameters, et cetera. With these words, I hand it over to Mr. Kejriwal for opening the Q&A session. I'm sure you all have lots of queries on the performance. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Amit Dixit, from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for the opportunity. I have two questions. The first one is on your coking coal cost. What was the cost in this quarter? And how much decline do you expect in Q2? That is the first question.
Yeah. The coking coal cost during this quarter, actually, we have got the imported as well as the indigenous component of that. The imported coking coal was in the range of around INR 24,500, landed at our steel plant, and the indigenous was around INR 13,500. So the average is working out to around INR 22,000 per tonne.
Okay. And what is the expectation for Q2, sir?
It should be in the similar range. It should not, because what is happening is that, not much of a fluctuation is taking place, and, whatever coal we have purchased, in the first quarter, it will be consumed in the second quarter. So, it should be more or less in the same range.
Because some of your peers actually have guided for roughly $30-$40 decline. So that's why I was wondering that, why it would be in a similar range for us. Whether it is due to inventory effect or, I mean, a different procurement policy maybe?
Yeah, it's that, and there is just one thing that I have got some extra stock of coal lying out here, so I'll be consuming that. So it's come during the first quarter, so it will be, I think, more or less, it will be in the more or less in the same range.
Okay. The second question is around debt. If I look at debt, that has actually went up significantly compared to last quarter, and I also assume that finished product inventory also would have gone up. So whether the most of the debt is due to the working capital, and if so, when can we expect this unlocking of working capital? And also, if you could highlight the finished product inventory as on date.
Yeah. Actually, the debt has gone up by around about INR 5,000 crore during this quarter. The main reason is, as I was telling you, that we have accumulated some coal stock. Actually, we had some long-term agreements with some of the coal miners, and they were having their shutdowns during the second half of this financial year. So we had to take some stock in advance from them. So that has had an impact. So this, we will be gradually bringing it down. And our levels are normally at 30-35 days of stock level, which is there. So it will come down by, you can say, December or January. So this will surely help us in reducing our the thing our borrowings, because we'll not have to pay for the coal for.
We'll have to pay less for the coal in the coming months. Yes, the inventory of finished steel as well as semis has gone up. The finished inventory has not increased much, but the inventory of semis has gone up by around half a million tonnes. So this is a matter of actually what has happened is in our Bokaro Steel Plant, we had a shutdown for our hot strip mill. So, yeah, but we did not stop the production because we kept the slag. We started producing and we kept the slags in our stock. So this slags will be liquidated now gradually. So this has an impact also.
So basically, we see the finished steel inventory, finished and semi-finished steel inventory has gone up around about INR 1,000 crore in this quarter itself.
Okay. What would be the finished product inventory in million tonnes as of now?
The finished, it is, it is at 1.84 million tonnes.
1.84. Okay, great, sir. Thank you so much, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rohan Vora from Envision Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir, thank you for the opportunity. So the first question was on the semis mix and how to see that going forward, because it was around 13% in this quarter. So, how do we plan to, you know, bring it down, or what is the outlook on that? Thank you.
The semis, they will remain at mostly at the same level. It will not come down drastically. The only thing is that our basic target is to maximize conversion through our conversion agents and wet lease, wet leasing agents. So this we'll be doing it, but I don't see much of a reduction in the percentage of semis.
Got it. And-
function which we are, which we are planning, we will have, we are planning a few more mills. We are having TMT mills at Durgapur Steel Plant. Then these semis will now more, will come down to more or less, you can say, well, you can say it will not be there at all.
Okay, sir, and what would be the timeline for that?
That's the timeline of around about 3 years. 3 to 3.5.
So in three years, semis will be negligible, is what you're saying?
Yeah, it will come down to, you can say, virtually zero level.
Got it. Got it. And, sir, I was also seeing the mix of value-added products have gone up in this quarter. However, you know, on the mix side, when we report our bridge for the EBITDA, we see a negative on that. So, how to look at that?
Actually, see, what has happened is that, adverse variance, whatever has been shown, the impact is basically because of Bokaro. See, Bokaro, we'd, we had this, the hot strip mill had not worked for, you can say, most part of the quarter. So that's why the volume mix, the mix, has changed.
Got it. Got it. So, sir, I was referring to the value-added mix that you report. So, you've reported a value-added mix of around 55.2% in Q1.
Right.
Right. And then, and still the mix is negative on the EBITDA bridge. So, can you connect these and how to see that?
See, that is on the volumes. Volumes are, it's, it's basically a combination of volume and mix, so volumes have come down. You are probably comparing with Q4 of 2024, isn't it? 2023, 2024.
Yes. Yes, sir.
Yeah. So basically, what happened in the last quarter, the volumes are substantially high as compared to the first quarter, so it is mainly because of the volumes.
Okay, okay. Mix has positively contributed, is what you're saying?
Uh, yes.
Okay, okay. Got it. Thank you, sir. I will get back in the queue.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kirtan Mehta from Bank of Baroda Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir, for this opportunity. This quarter, we are reporting a coke rate at 428 kg per tonne versus 440 kg average in FY 2024. What is the driver for this reduction in coke rate, and will this remain at this level, or will it go up again?
Come again with your question.
In our slide pack, we are showing the coke rate at 428 kg during Q1 versus 440 kg in FY 2024.
Yeah.
What is driving the reduction in coke rate?
See, there is one more thing that our operational efficiencies are improving. We are emphasizing more on better quality of iron ore also. And, besides that, see, there, we are also, the CDI rate is also going up. So the CDI rate, the moment the CDI rate goes up and the, and the this thing, your Fe quality improves, so we get a better coke rate then in these, in these cases. And, we are planning a further reduction in the coke rate in these coming months, and with an improved quantity of CDI push.
In terms of the CDI rate, shown on the slide has remained more or less flat from 1.06 to 1.07, so there wasn't sort of proportionate change in the CDI rate, but coke rate had gone down. That's the reason I was asking the question.
See, can you come again with your question, please?
I was saying that in terms of the CDI rate has remained sort of more or less similar between Q1 and FY 24.
Right.
It is shown as 107 versus 106 in Q4-
Right.
FY 2024. But besides that, the coke rate had come down, so is it more due to the better quality of Fe, as you were saying?
It is because of better quality of Fe and better, and improved efficiencies in the blast furnaces also. Like, more oxygen pushing and all also helps to a very large extent in bringing up the operational efficiencies.
. What would be the target for this year?
This year we have targeted 414, but we may not be able to achieve that. We may not be able, but I'm sure that it'll another, you can say 6-8 kg of coal will be there during the balance period.
Right. And what about the CDR rate?
CDI will go up because, CDI, basically, we have got new sources for supply of CDI. So the CDI portion will increase in the coming months. So that will also increase by at least 10-12 kg.
Right, sir. One more question was, what are the sort of the CapEx teams which are running, which could have a benefit, either increasing the volume or sort of the mix, volume mix? So in terms of the caster that we are adding a couple of locations or the TMT work, could you sort of run us through all the project teams which are running currently, you are under execution currently?
See, basically, we are, we have got our capacities around 20 million tonnes, but we are going to have some debottlenecking schemes. I can just give you a few examples, like our blast, the Blast Furnace 3 of Durgapur. That is going to be revamped, and that will give us higher volumes. Similarly, the casters are coming up in Rourkela and Bhilai, and these will be also giving us higher volumes. So these things are being added so that with some, you know, like, modifications in the existing system or adding certain capacities in certain areas where there were some bottlenecks, we are trying to bring it up.
So we are trying to bring it up by 3 million tonnes in the next 3-4 years, by putting in something like INR 10,000-11,000 crore in that. So these are basically action plans for, you know, like, increasing the capacities by investing the least amount.
When are the caster at Rourkela and Bhilai due? When are we targeting it for completion?
Bhilai has already come, and it is under trial. Rourkela, I think two years down the line. Two years? Two years down the line.
Right. What about BF3 revamping at Durgapur?
BF3, we'll be placing the order for that, and I think it is 18 months from the placement of order.
Sure. And in terms of the two new sort of the revamp of the plant proposal that we are progressing, is there, where we are working on the DPR and sort of the finalizing the cost estimates, could you give us a bit more insight into what is the progress been during the quarter?
One particular plant, ISP plant, already the board has approved stage one approval for that. It is a 4 million tonne plant, and the total investment will be around INR 37,000 crore. The other two plants which are there, they are basically a brownfield expansion, in which Bokaro is going to be ramped up to 7 million tonnes, and Durgapur will be going up by around about, you can say 1.1 million tonne, around 1 million tonne. These two, they're still at discussion stages, and they'll be put up to the board shortly.
We are just looking into it because the cost given by the consultant appears to be on the higher side, so we are having it evaluated again.
For Visakhapatnam steel plant, when are we targeting to go to the board for the stage two approval?
Actually, stage two, I think it will. The tendering will start now, very shortly, and the moment we freeze the major packages for the BOF and BF and the SMS. So the moment we have finalized these packages, we'll come back to the board.
Sure, sir. Thanks for this call.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is on the line of Sumangal Nevatia from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity, sir. I joined the call late, so please excuse if it's a repeat. Is it possible to share what was the NSR, blended NSR for 1Q, and how are we looking at 2Q, based on how the July month has gone by?
Yeah. The NSR for Q1, it's in the range of INR 53,700.
Okay.
Going forward, like, we are, like, it has declined further in the month of July by, you can say, around about INR 500-INR 600, and there is a further reduction in the month of August also.
Sir, was August around 1,000, 1,500 decline or more?
It could be in that range or maybe slightly more than that also.
Okay. From the average, somewhere around INR 1,500 to INR 1,000 to INR 1,500 for 2Q, looks like, based on July, August?
I think so. I think.
Okay. Got it, sir. Got it. Sir, on the coking coal, we are saying flat. Is it possible to share what, what is the cost in one Q, and given the declining trend, why are we expecting flat prices in two Q?
Let's see. What is happening is, as I had explained earlier, that, we have accumulated some stock of coal, we have imported coal during this, April to June, because some of our suppliers had some issues of supplying in the second, in the second half of the financial year. So we have accumulated the stock, so we'll be basically, that is the more or less the stock, and whatever is the stock rate in Q1, it will probably be in the Q2 also, because we'll be basically liquidating that stock which we have already accumulated.
Understood. Understood. Sir, is it possible to share the net debt numbers, as on 1Q end?
Q1 is INR 35,659 crore.
Six fifty-nine?
Yeah, INR 35,659 crore.
Okay. Sir, and, I mean, what would be the reason behind the sharp increase? Is it largely working capital build-up?
Yes, it is basically working capital build-up. As I explained earlier, it was basically we got some accumulated coal out here, and moreover, the inventory has also gone up to some extent. So these are the two major reasons because of this. We expect to bring it down in the balance period of the year.
Sir, is it possible to share net debt number? Because this, I believe, is gross debt, right?
It's the same thing. We don't have much of cash in hand.
Okay, roughly the same. Okay.
Right.
Sir, just one last clarification, in the previous question you answered, some 4,000,000 tonnes for INR 37,000 crore. I did not get that. Is it possible to share what exactly is the expansion and the cost estimate?
Okay. So basically we are having a flat product plant out there, which will have one large blast furnace, and along with that, steelmaking via BOF and oxygen equipment. So these are the major three facilities. Besides that, all the raw material handling plants and the evacuations, all those things taken together, plus the power supplies and other things, even I think on pellet plant is also there. So putting all these things put together, it's working out well.
This number is right, INR 37,000 crore for 4,000,000 tonnes?
Yeah, for 4 million tonne.
Okay.
This includes all the hard and soft costs, which, we are talking about the EDC, the expenditure during construction, whatever we have got, the consultancy, the interest during construction. So it includes all these elements also.
Okay, sir. I mean, when, I mean, few of the other peers are expanding, brownfield, the capital cost is around $600, ours is around $1,100-$1,200. So what are the key reasons behind such a higher cost even for brownfield expansion? And then what sort of-
This is not a brownfield expansion, if you see. This is not at all a brownfield. This is absolutely a new plant which is being set up over there.
Okay. So, is the land and everything included?
Because at the moment, IISCO is around the 2.5-2.8 million-tonne plant. It's a long product plant. So in the area which is available, we are going in for these facilities. But everything here will be new for this particular plant.
Okay. And sir, what is the CapEx guidance? When do we start spending for this?
We'll be going in for the tendering activities for this very shortly, maybe in a month or two. Finalizing it should take around about six to eight months. Then after that, you can say the CapEx guidance for this will be from the initial payments can be from, you can say, end of 2025. This 2025 means I'm talking about the calendar year 2025. The majority of the expenditures will start coming in from, you can say, 2027, 2028.
Understood. Understood. All right. I have more questions. I'll join the queue back, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kunal Kothari from Centrum Broking Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, firstly, can you give breakup on the NSR of longs price and HRC price, and how much in that segment we have seen fall in current month, in last month and in August?
Yeah. In the long segment, the NSR was in the range of, you can say, around about INR 54,000. And in the flat, it was INR 53,500. Then the average was coming to around about INR 53,700.
In both, how much fall we have seen in July and August?
July, there has been a dip of around about, you can say, 700-800 in case of long. And in case of flat, it has been around about INR 1,500.
Okay. Okay. Sir, any medium-term outlook you can provide on the pricing front, like from this price point, how you see the price to go from here?
It's, see, July and August has been bad. We expect at least, with some infrastructure, expenditure being pumped in by the government, the long segment should start looking up. Flats, there is a challenge because, there are some imports also. So there, though the imports, the percentage is very low, but it is pulling down the overall price in the market. So let's hope that, there is something, some bright spot in the future for the flats also.
Okay, sir. The second question is around of CapEx. So what expectation one can build on the total CapEx in FY 2025, 2026, 2027 per year basis?
For FY 2024-25, we have projected around about INR 6,000 crore. It's actually INR 6,300 crore, which we have given to the ministry. And, the expenditure in the coming year also will be in the similar range, around about INR 7,000 crore or something. The real jump in the CapEx will come from, you can say, 2026, 2027 onwards.
Okay. And lastly, sir, there are reports about the merger between RINL and NMDC, which failed. Any assessment of yours in this report, sir?
We are not aware of it.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Raashi Chopra from Citigroup. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Just to clarify on the pricing correction, with INR 7,800 in longs and INR 1,500 in flats, that's the July correction, is it?
Yeah, that's it.
In August, what is that number for long and flat?
You can say another dip of around about 1,000-odd, maybe more than that also. 1,500-odd in the long product, and similar thing in the flat product.
So, on and during this quarter, essentially, as in the quarter has gone by, flat prices are almost flattest sequentially, but longs witnessed a correction, and ongoing both are witnessing a correction.
See, there's already been a fall of quite a lot in these two months. So if you see the quarter, I don't think there will be any improvement over the previous quarter. It has to be lower than the previous quarter.
Sorry, just to be clear, my question was the first quarter number that you reported, that was anyway down on a quarter-on-quarter basis.
Yes.
for the long, and flats was largely sort of flattish, right?
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
On the CapEx side, what is spent in the first quarter?
On the CapEx side, the expenditure on the first quarter?
Yes.
Yeah, it's INR 986 crore.
Okay. And the expansion at IISCO, you said it is 4 million tonnes, and what you are evaluating at Bokaro and Durgapur, they are both around 1 million tonne each?
No. Bokaro is nearly 3 million tonne, 2.4 million tonne. And Durgapur this is. Durgapur, just a minute.
0.1 million. 0.9 million.
Around 0.9 million tonne. So it will go up to around about 3 odd, 3 plus. See, Bokaro will go up to 7, and this will go up to, how much is it?
Three, three.
3 million tonne.
Understood.
2.1 million tonnes.
Sorry, and just one last question. What are your volume targets for this year, and has there been any change from what you said last time around, say, last quarter?
Volume targets for this year, we are planning crude steel production of around 20.87 million tonne, and sales volume of around 19.26 million tonne.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Abhishek Poddar from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question, sir. So, two questions on this expansion. First is regarding the funding. If you look at, you already are sitting on a debt of INR 35,000 crore and, the CapEx for this you highlighted is INR 37,000. And if you look at your annual cash flows also today, you know, given the sustaining CapEx of INR 6,000-6,500 crore, and then the interest payment on the debt-
Mm-hmm.
It doesn't leave a lot of cash flows left. So how would you fund it, and would it leverage your balance sheet a lot in 3-4 years' time frame if you continue with this expansion?
Yeah, actually, when we had made an earlier projection, we had worked it out that we'll be needing around INR 100,000 crore for all our expansions, for this 15 million tonne expansion. But then we had worked out the cash flows, and we were seeing that we would probably, at any point of time, we will reach the highest of 1.1 debt-to-equity ratio. But now, with the current market, we will again have to work it out, see how we are going to end up, maybe probably, what is going to be the debt-equity ratio and how much further funds will be required. We will have to have a recalculation of that.
Okay, sir. Any sense of peak debt you could see in next three, four years? What number could it be?
We have not assessed that immediately. And again, I was telling you, because of this changed scenario, where suddenly these prices have come down and the margins have come down, so we will have to work on that again.
Right. But irrespective of market conditions, you will continue with this expansion?
Yes, we are continuing with the expansion.
Sir, any IRR or payback analysis we have done for this Bokaro plant of INR 37,000 crore?
It's a plant, and we have made an analysis. It's quite favorable. I think it, 18%, 18% is the IRR.
Okay, and what steel price assumption is building in that number, sir?
The assumptions were again what they were earlier of the steel pricing which are prevailing in the last, average of last three years. We have considered that and worked it out. The other things which we have assumed is some stamp charging, where the price of input coal will be reduced to a large extent, and lot of other techno-economic improvement parameters which have been worked into it. So it's based on that. Of course, latest technology has been taken, so we'll be benefiting on that. We'll just have to work it out again before we go in for the strategic clearance of the project.
Understood. And sir, just last question, any sense on this Durgapur and Bokaro CapEx, this 3.5 total will be how much?
See, there was an indicated figure given by the consultant, and we were not too happy with it. So we have sent it back to the consultant, the current guidelines of reworking on that. So nothing is, you know, concrete at this point in time.
Oh, okay. Thank you, sir. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pallav Agarwal from Antique Stock Broking Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah, yeah, good afternoon, sir.
Yeah.
So just want to check, you know, are there any implications due to the recent Supreme Court judgment on the states having the power to levy cess? So, because in the annual report of last year, I couldn't really find any major contingent liability. So is there any potential impact that could have on us?
See, there are certain state-related taxes which we are already paying, that is in Chhattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh. In case of Jharkhand, we have recently announced that they'll be imposing INR 100 per tonne for iron ore and coal. So this is going to have a prospective effect of around 150 to, you can say, around 200 crores. In case of Odisha, where we also have our mines, there's no clarity as yet. So we are just waiting for further clarity on this.
Okay. So because, you know, because we some of the other steel companies and, mines in Odisha, they have been providing for a, you know, continuing liability for many years now. So which, which is not there in our books of account. So-
So it is there, I think, modest. There was a earlier in case of Odisha, we had imposed a 15% tax on the ore, which was being extracted from there. But then I think that ruling went in our favor, so we did not provide any continuing liability thereafter. And after that, there has been no claim by the Odisha government, nor have they gone further, you know, litigated the thing. So we don't have anything much on that count, but yes, we do not know what is the final direction, which will be given by the Supreme Court. So based on that, we'll have to assess our liabilities or if there is any other thing, we'll have to assess that at a later stage.
Sure, sir. So also, you know, you mentioned that we have some coking coal inventory, so, you know, benefits will not flow in the next quarter, but Q3, maybe you can see some reduction in coking coal?
Yes, yes. Q3, there'll be a reduction of, around about, you can say. But then again, it depends—August, September month. So it will then, that will flow into the, third quarter. You can say after the—
If you assume that spot rates sustain, then we should see some benefit in the-
Yeah, some benefit.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is on the line of Rajesh Majumdar from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good afternoon, sir, and thanks for the opportunity. So sir, my first question was that, normally, 2Q Bokaro quarter is a weak quarter for the industry, but last year also, we saw, decent volume in 2Q. Now, with the recent price correction, do you expect the system to build up inventories and the volume, can actually be much better than Q1? That was the first question, sir.
The volume should be better than Q1, especially when our Bokaro plant has also now come up, so the volumes will start flowing from there, too. And, yes, always, you must have seen in the industry that Q1, and especially SAIL, is no exception, but Q1 is normally not very good. And, this year also, it has not been too good, mainly because of Bokaro, because of which we had a substantial impact on our profitability. And, then we also have to take a hit of around about INR 300 crore this year, for some exceptional items. So that is the main reason why though our EBITDA is good, but our PBT and PAT are lower.
Yeah. Thank you. And so my other question was that we have been carrying sub-grade iron ore fines inventory for some time, and currently the market with the current conditions, there is a strong demand for these, this. So do we expect to realize some extra sales from this in the coming quarters?
Yeah, we will see if we get a good price for it. It's not that we are in any hurry to sell it off, because we have a lot of plans for these sub-grade fines. Besides selling them off, we have got plans of using them in our steel plant also. Because though we can say, though we are being told that, though we always mention that it's sub-grade fines, but the quality of these fines is very good. It's more or less equal to what is being mined now. So this is there. Besides that, we have got plans of setting up pellet plant. We are also having plans of setting up pellet plant on MDO basis. So these fines will be utilized by us also.
Yeah, just as a follow-up question, when are the pellet plants and what capacity are likely to come up over the next couple of years?
We have, you can say not in the next couple of years, but I think the MDO plant will be set up, you can say, in 2, 2.5 years, 2 years' time or 2.5 years. We have our own plans of setting up a plant at Gua ore mines, a pellet plant at Gua ore mines of 4 million tonnes. So this should take around about 3.5-4 years from now.
Thank you so much, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is on the line of Somaiah V from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, sir. Just want to understand a bit on the coking coal cost. So this INR 25,000 per tonne, which you are referring, roughly comes to around $300 per tonne. So is that the carrying cost, one, for this quarter? And also, if I go back last two, three quarters, this number, the import price that you're referring to is more or less flat, around INR 25,000-26,000 per tonne, but international benchmarks have come up. Just want to understand on that.
See, basically, what is happening is this is the price landed at our steel plants. Okay, so there are some other costs involved, like, there is a customs duty involved, and besides that, there are handling costs at the port and the transportation costs. So all these are included while we are while we are intimating you the land of landed price of imported coal at our plant.
Understood, sir. I was looking more from the last two, three quarters. This number has been more or less flat, 24,000, 26,000 and 25,000. But generally, the coking coal international benchmark prices have come off.
No, but I don't think. See, what is happening is I was-- I'm just seeing the figures which I have got with myself. The Q4 figures were INR 26,500, and now it's INR 24,500. This is the landed price at our steel plant. So there is a reduction of around about INR 2,000.
Understood, sir. Got it. So, sir, also on the domestic coking coal that you said, so the current mix would be roughly 15%-20% of your total requirement. Is that right understanding?
Yes.
Is there any limitation in terms of how much we can use this or blend this, to what extent we can go? And also, what is the scope for increasing, I mean, in terms of production or, I mean, or taking in intake of this domestic coal; will it kind of go up in the next two years, thereby helping us a bit on the cost front?
See, we can go up to around about 25% also. But the only thing is that the availability of the coal is not there. And for this, we have already taken a very big step, like, we have our own mine, Tasra mine. So these mines will be developed. Now we have already awarded the job to an MDO. And these mines will start, this mine will start producing. It's already started producing limited quantities, and we expect the around about 4 million tonnes per annum of production from this.
So this will work out to, you can say, around about 2 million tonnes of coking coal that will be given, that will be available to us in future from this particular mine.
Understood, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Shweta Dikshit from Systematix Group. Please go ahead.
Hello. Good afternoon, sir. I want clarity on from-
Sorry, can you please get a bit closer to your mic?
Is it better now?
Yes, ma'am. Good.
Yes. I needed the clarity on debt. If I'm not mistaken, I think the FY 2024 closing net debt was around INR 35,000 crore, was it? And, the number that you've given today, INR 35,659 crore, is it as of FY 2024?
I just clarify, that is Ind AS, and this is non-Ind AS, what we are talking. It was INR 30,000 crore at the end of the financial year 2020, as of 31st March, it was INR 30,593 crore, which has now gone up to INR 35,659 crore.
All right. Is there any target by the end of this year? Because last year, I think the target was to bring it to around INR 22,000-INR 23,000 crore, kind of a number. But any target that you are setting for this year?
We are trying to bring it down to the 30,000 level. See, with the liquidation of the stock, we will be getting at least INR 3,000-4,000 crore from there. And, besides that, of course, cash realize will be much better in this coming 9 months. So we expect it to come down to at least INR 30,000 crore by this year.
I missed the number. What is the expansion plan, which is under discussion for Bokaro right now?
For Bokaro, we have only given you the figures of IISCO. It's the steel plant, which is 37,000. The figures for Bokaro and Durgapur, they are being redone.
No, no, not the CapEx, but volume-wise, like Durgapur, Durgapur, you mentioned 0.9 million tonnes. And Bokaro is?
Bokaro should be 2.4.
Okay. All right. And that's it from my side. Thank you, sir.
Yes, thank you.
Thank you.
Let this be the last question, please. We'll take the balance through the line.
Sure, sir. The last question is from the line of Falguni Dutta from Manasaro Financials. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir. My question has been answered. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for the day. I now hand the call over to Mr. Ashish Kejriwal for closing comments.
Yeah, thank you. Thank you, everyone. Many thanks to sir for giving patient answers to all the questions. Sir, my only last question was on account of our expansion at IISCO. You know, even if greenfield plant, if we consider, normally we consider INR 7,000 crore per tonne. But in case of IISCO, despite having land, we are having 4 million tonne at INR 37,000 crore, which is more than INR 9,000 crore per tonne. So anything specific or extra, what we are doing, what others are not incorporating the numbers, or it seems to be very, very high?
See, we haven't yet gone in for the pending part of it. Okay. See, what happens is when we talk about others, they don't have these. I do not know how much of the expenditure during construction. See, what happens is the entire project, salaries and all, they are put into the cost of the project. So, these are there, and besides that, there is just one figure which we have got. That's for 1 million tonne. It's $1 billion. So basically, if you see, it works out around about INR 34,000 crore-INR 35,000 crore.
Okay. Okay, fair enough. Thank you, sir, and best wishes for future. Any closing remarks, sir, you want to give?
I think I thank all the investors for their presence here tonight, and I'm hopeful that they shall continue to do so in future also. Thank you.
On behalf of Nuvama Wealth Management, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.