Ladies and gentlemen, good day. Welcome to the Schneider Electric Infrastructure Limited Q4 FY 2023 earnings conference call hosted by Elara Securities Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Mudit Kabra from Elara Securities Private Limited. Thank you. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Lizanne. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Elara Securities, we welcome you all for the Q3 FY 23 and FY 23 conference call of Schneider Electric Infrastructure Limited. I take this opportunity to welcome the management of Schneider Electric Infrastructure, represented by Mr. Sanjay Sudhakaran, Managing Director, Mr. Mayank Holani, Chief Financial Officer, and Mr. Vineet Jain, Head Investor Relations. We'll begin the call with a brief overview by the management, followed by the Q&A session. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Sudhakaran for his opening remarks. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Mudit. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, this is Sanjay Sudhakaran here, your Managing Director and CEO for Schneider Electric Infrastructure Limited. As usual, I will get straight to the topic by talking about the economic outlook of the country. We'll go over to the page three, where we have outlined certain macro indicators. Clearly, the economy seems to be facing some headwind in terms of growth projections, but this could be due to some base effect of last year and we coming fully out of the COVID impact and a year-on-year comparison. However, we do see some headwinds in terms of the global situation, the recession fears, I would say more fears that are looming around, and the reductions in spend by certain IT giants, et cetera, do pose some headwinds in terms of the projections for India on an overall basis.
What we feel is that this twin story of electrification and digitization, along with decarbonization, will stay strong. As we can look through in the future outlook that we present on some of our key segments, we feel that these things would somehow be mitigated. We can expect a growth of around 6% to 7% of overall GDP in the calendar year 2023. The industrial production forecast does seems to be a little on the lower side. However, things are expected to improve as we move forward. Going on to page four, which is the segment trends, we see continued interest in the government to invest money on modernizing the grid. This is of course linked to the urbanization that is happening across India as well.
We could see some moderation in terms of mineral mining and metals, which came off from a very strong year last year. The trends on the mobility sector seem to be very strong, again, driven by urbanization and the need for more urban transport, primarily airports and metros. Modernization of railways, which is the Vande Bharat platform, could see some very strong opportunities, which are presented towards us in the market. The cloud and services segment, which is primarily the data center market, continues to be strong. We could see more investments coming on smaller data centers, which are the edge data centers, along with the co-located large hyperscalers as well.
The industry and building segments is also expected to pick up, with vacancy rates dropping to a very large extent in all metros across India and rental rates firming up. We could see expansions coming in the building segment as well. Overall, I think despite all the headwinds that we see on the global economy side, we do see some good prospects on the Indian economy. Certain sectors might perform a little lower than the others, but the negative impacts would be cancelled out with the positive impacts, which will be driven by the government's push and drive to drive infrastructure growth in India to keep ahead of the growth curve. Going on to slide four and slide five and beyond, I will use certain examples to articulate our conformance to our strategies, which we spoke about previously.
Here is one of the largest orders that we have won for smart RMUs, which from a DISCOM in the south of India, which is clearly a vindication of our strategy around being focused around our key accounts, digitization with a smart RMU and partnerization program, which is leading to more and more transaction orders coming in and we enhancing our position in the segment with better and better cash flows.
This win clearly demonstrates our ability to execute on our strategy in these aspects. I will go on to slide six, which is a repeat customer from one of the cement majors, trying to put up a greenfield project in an already existing site, and this was primarily a completely digital order, with connected equipment and SCADA and solutions which will lead to further life cycle revenues, which is again us focused on our strategy to grow services. Software, we go to slide seven. We are committed to our key focus segments and transportation being one of them, and primarily urban transportation. We have won a very large order for the Mass Rapid Rail Transit system in the north of India. We can expect this to be scalable with many more phases of this order coming in in the future.
Given the reference installation that we can have in this, with this customer, I think this would position us positively. On the cloud and services provider, another repeat order from a colo giant in India. Again, a very strong pitch with data center customers with edge control software like SCADA, necessary digital communication and a very strong powertrain in terms of both medium voltage equipment and low voltage equipment here. I'll go on to slide number nine, which again demonstrates our ability to percolate solutions with customers, which will give us life cycle revenues. On the left-hand side, you see an example of a major cement giant which is now on the EcoStruxure Asset Advisor platform with arc protection feature inbuilt into it.
This is again a solution which is predictive in nature, along with the EcoStruxure Transformer Expert, which is again a transformer solution which is predictive in nature, with leveraging our ETAP acquisition that we made globally, which will provide them with a digital twin. These three solutions will provide the customer with a reduced downtime due to a solution that promotes proactive maintenance, reducing downtime and reducing failures. This is going to be an example where a customer will real time see the benefits of these solutions. On the right-hand side, we are working with a major oil and gas public sector unit and retrofitting our old relays with the modern relays that we have launched in the market, which is the P3 and P5.
This will again provide us with opportunities in the future for service retrofit and also new equipment which can go with these state-of-the-art relays. Customer stickiness and over a long time and life cycle revenues, again, one of the strategies that we have articulated in our previous calls as well. Going on to slide 10. Our basic philosophy behind digitization is to try and move towards 100% natively connected equipment. We impress upon customers the need for an edge control software which will connect all their equipment together and provide them with live monitoring. Finally, on a level layer three, we provide them with diagnostic software connected to the cloud that can boost their productivity and reduce their downtime.
The pillar of digitization rests on we trying to serve the customers on layer one, layer two, and layer three, which is articulated on the right-hand side in terms of what we call as connected products, edge control and apps and analytics. We'll go to slide 10, and this is how we are progressing on these initiatives. We have almost a 20% growth in terms of our edge control layer and a 50% layer growth in terms of our software and digital services, as we call it. You can see that we are trying to percolate into all our key segments here, whether it is power distribution, automobiles, metros, refineries and steel.
Being largely a key account business, we see strong repeatability happening once the customers adopt this technology and are comfortable with this technology, we see that they can be long-term attached with Schneider Electric for many years to come, providing us with life cycle revenues. Slide 12, we spoke about a number of times about the fact that we are diversifying our portfolio, diversifying our portfolio into segments that we have not been strong before. Some of these are emerging segments. Some of these are segments which have existed, our portfolio remained largely on the power and grid side due to historic reasons. You can see that the diversification is actually bearing fruit. The industrial and building segment is growing by 40%, which is almost 2x the rate at which the company is growing.
The cloud and services segment, which was very small in previous years, has now gaining contribution and contributing positively to our business, and it's growing at around 150% year-on-year. With more and more customer acquisitions in the space, we expect this business to be sizable in years to come. I'll go to slide 13. Along with all this, we are making sure that your company is positioned very strongly in the minds of customers, as we call it, top of the mind recall. We have actively been involved with customers on the thought leadership side, collaborating along with customers to create forums that will create awareness around decarbonization, digitization, and electrification, which are the pillars on which our strategy lies. You can read for yourself. There are a number of events that we have participated.
This is just a snapshot of what's happened in the previous quarter. Throughout the year, we had engagements with the top leaders in the industry as well as decision-makers. Going on to slide 14, you would have got a glimpse of our financials. I would like to say that, we stay committed to our strategy, which is accelerated partner growth, more digital services, and diversification of our portfolio. Along with this, the financials will follow. I would now request Mayank Holani, our CFO, to lead you all through the financials and give you a glimpse of what's behind it as well. Over to you, Mayank.
Thanks. Thanks, Sandeep, good evening, everyone. You can move on to the next slide 15. Some orders. Our orders for the quarter grew at about 10.6%. These are just the OG outside group orders and not the within group orders. The orders for full year have grown by about 10.3%, taking it to about INR 15,376 million. We saw good momentum in orders in all segments, our backlog at the end of March 2022 is March 2023, sorry, there is a typo there, grew by about 15%. Moving on to next slide on sales. This quarter saw a growth of about 20.1% on sales, we landed at about INR 410 crores versus INR 340 crores in previous year same quarter.
While sales for full year stood at about 16.1% at INR 17,772 million or INR 1,777 crores versus INR 330 crores in previous year. This is once again the highest ever revenue in any financial year. Last year we touched the highest number and again this year we have crossed it. We see good momentum in sales quarter after quarter. There may be slight ups and downs, but we are in the right direction and implementing our strategy as explained. Moving on to the next slide, 17. You see the P&L for the quarter. We saw a growth of like 20% on sales, slightly higher other income.
Our multi-gross margin is 37.6%, which is an improvement of about 830 basis points from versus last year. This is due to a couple of factors. One, the primary one, is the raw material cost normalization, which has been moving normally up in the previous few quarters. Also to some extent, the better mix of the portfolio so which has led to this higher gross margin. EBITDA, if you see it's about 15.8% versus 5.9%. A growth of about 990 basis points. Profit before exception items at INR 5.54 million, 11.1% of sales versus INR 27 million at that is 0.8% of sales. That's a very good growth of about 1,030 basis points.
Exceptional items, this is slightly few, small item which is, you see a net profit after tax of about INR 448 million, which is 10.9 versus last year what we had about INR 7 lakhs profit for the quarter. Moving on to next slide 18. You see the full year financial results. Sales, as I mentioned earlier, about 16% higher. Other income at a similar level. The GM has improved to about 32.7% versus 30% in previous year. You see here it is last year there was a dip in GM because of the raw material inflation and supply chain constraints. We have, kind of, got back to the normal level and the weather improved from the year before that as well.
Now we are at the right level of GM in a way, and recovered whatever dip or the decline we had seen in previous year. EBITDA at 10.1% versus 6.3% previous year. The profit before exception items of INR 108 crores, 6.1% versus 2% in previous year, so about 410 basis points improvement. Exception items, if you recall in the quarter one and two, we had reported some profits due to the reclassification of interest component of loan and during the annual of the loan, and also the profit due to sale of some land at the Naini. After that, net profit is about INR 123.6 crores versus INR 21.6 crores in previous year. That's it from my side. We can now open for questions.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone wishing to ask a question may please press star and one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is on the line of Amar Maurya from AlfAccurate Advisors Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Thanks a lot for the opportunity and congratulations for a stellar set of numbers and strong order book. Couple of questions. Firstly, if you can give the order book, you know, closing order book, what is the closing order book, by the, by, for the Q2?
Our backlog, for the OG order backlog at the end of March 23 was about INR 10,735 million.
Mm-hmm.
Last year, December 2022 it was INR 817 crores or INR 8,179 million.
Okay. Okay. Secondly, sir, in terms of our revenue growth on a year-over-year basis, full year basis, what would be the growth in the transaction services, I mean, transaction services and systems, if you can give the breakup of that.
Transaction obviously has been higher growth, about 40% odd. You are asking about orders or sales?
Both. Order book breakup of the transaction services and, you know, systems and also the sales both. If you can give the breakup.
You are asking the order booking breakup, right?
Yeah, yeah. Order booking breakup.
In order booking the full year, the breakup is about, 48% equipment, 10% projects, 27 transaction and 15 services.
10% transaction and 15 services. Let's say, sir, what would be the mix of, let's say, order book for the end of FY2022?
That was March 2022, right?
Yeah, March 2022.
151 equipment.
Mm-hmm.
Project 21 transaction and 14 services.
Basically from service... Why, sir, basically this transaction I think, I believe transaction reduced, right? Transaction reduced.
last year it was 21, this year it was 27.
Okay. Okay. Services you are saying is 14?
14 to 15. Services improved.
Okay. Okay. Sir, similarly, if you can give the breakup of revenue as per FY 2023 transaction services and systems?
Revenue is system 69, transaction 20 and services 11.
Mm-hmm.
Previous year was 72 systems, 17 transaction and 11 services. Mainly the 3% change between systems to transactions.
Okay. That led to the profitability improvement.
It's not as simple as though. That is one of the factor, but it's not as simple that, okay, you get just because. There are multiple factors, right?
I got that. I got. Sir, basically now if you see the mix is moving more towards the high margin business of transaction and services, and I believe the order inflow which you are going to see in FY 2024, that would also be more skewed towards the more connected product services and transactions. Basically under this light, how do we see FY 2024 profitability? Like, you know, do we see that, I mean, 10% EBITDA margin we closed this year. What should be the profitability we should look for the FY 2024?
You see, we don't give any guidance as such on the numbers.
I'm just asking, you know, structurally should we see the inch up given the mix of the order book which you have and the kind of, you know, order inflow and pipeline which you are seeing?
Structure we should, you know, Our ambition is to continue improving on this, right? We continue the improving the performance and the P&L, quarter after year after year on year, right? There may be some movements between within quarters because it's a different project link business, so there may be mix changes quarter or within quarters or something. On a long-term basis, year on year, we should continue to improve.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Secondly, sir, this revenue growth you are guiding for 6% revenue growth, right? That is what I mean, did I heard correctly?
No revenue growth, I said 16%.
No, no. Guidance for FY 2024. I think sir, MD sir alluded something.
No, I did not say any revenue growth.
Okay. Okay. Revenue growth would be what? 10-15% revenue growth we should assume?
As I said, we are not giving any numbers for the next year.
Okay.
You have seen last two years, so you can make out what we should do, but I'm not giving any numbers.
Okay. Perfect. Perfect.
Thank you. The next question is on the line of Apoorva Bahadur from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead. The lines of the current participant has dropped off. We'll move on to the next question. That is on the line of Darshan Shah from AlfAccurate Advisors. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Sir, thanks for the opportunity. I have a question on the gross margins front. You already mentioned that some part of the benefit came because of the lower raw material cost, but there were some changes in the product mix. Can you please share the, you know, the difference that how much it is came from the easing of the raw material front, and how much it is because of the, you know, the improvement in the mix? Because there is roughly 800-900 basis point improvement.
Yes, we can.
The raw material easing, do you foresee that this is sustainable? I mean, in terms of pricing scenario, how do you see? Do you have to pass on the benefit for FY 2024, or this benefit can be expected to continue for this fiscal as well?
See, we are into an ETO business where you do costing for each project individually based on, you know, the tender requirements, and then you get an order, right? It's not a fixed price, list price kind of business. Another question on the mix and mix and the raw material impact. There is a, you know, mix also plays a big role. That's where if you see historically also, quarter-on-quarter, sometimes you see very big variances in the gross margin because if you have a few big orders or a few big projects of a certain product, it can swing your GM. As well as, you know, the maintaining. Obviously, the Q4 GM % is INR 10 million, if you look at it's not a, the representative, right?
If you say 36% GM is representative of four quarters to come, obviously it is not, right? We have to look at the GM for the full year. If you see the past from 2021 to 2022, we dropped the GM because that year there were again raw material, a lot of unexpected movements were there on the upward side, and then you had supply chain challenges also. This was a more of a normal year, right. We are much more normal than that, it's kind of a normal level. Obviously 36 is not something which will continue.
Okay. On Y-o-Y basis also, if I look at, it's roughly 300 basis point improvement versus the last year.
Absolutely.
Can you share the breakup? I mean, out of this 300 basis points, is that largely came because of the lower raw material cost or, is there any part of the changes in the product mix also?
See, it's.
Actually, we cannot, we should not extrapolate everything. It has got a number of reasons associated with it. Sorry to interrupt, Mayank.
You're right.
The business change makes there is more of transactionalization happening. There are more of better projects, as we call it, driven by digitization. It's a configure-to-order business, right? It's not always easy to measure that how much came from pricing, how much came from raw materials, et cetera.
It's a mix of lot of factors, right?
Okay. The last one is, you know, in terms of the order backlog, like we are segregating the segments between total five segments are there. Is there any possibility like we can get, you know, the order book breakup in terms of these five segments? Because I think in one slide it is mentioned that the industry and the building order book is up by roughly 40% Y-o-Y. The cloud services order backlog is also up by 150% Y-o-Y. Is there any mix can we get based on these five segments in terms of the order backlog and the GP margin for these five segments?
See, obviously where you, quarter-on-quarter, the backlog or order book mix will keep on varying. The different segments may have different growth in a particular quarter. We cannot provide you know, backlog or order book as such by segment or by industry.
Sure, sir. Yeah. That's it. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is on the line of Viraj Mithani from Jupiter Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good evening, sir. Consolidation is not a very good number. My question is that, does this mean that we are shifting towards more and more towards the EcoStruxure platform and our vision has changed from being a product company to a full solution company or something?
I think, Viraj, good question. Software and which is primarily EcoStruxure, as you rightly mentioned, also pulls products in. There is no strategy to defocus on products. Products is always at the center. The way you pull products can be through a pure product play, it can be through digital products, it can be through edge control software, or it could be through apps and analytics. Primarily what software does it provides a very strong stickiness between the customer and the organization because it's not just the product features that matter, it's the overall experience that the customer gets that matters.
Okay. sir, like, does it mean that over period of time we shall see the improving margins because of the initiative we have taken, in past two to three years, changing the, I mean, going towards more, software side, giving a more solution, is this right to think?
That is the intent, as we have already always articulated in all our strategy presentations, that the idea is to move towards more of services and back to more of digital services and more of recurring services, right? That is what gives you a very healthy organization in terms of top line.
Okay, sir. Thank you and all the best and good luck for the future.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Alisha Mahawla from Envision Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good afternoon. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. I joined a little late. What is the order backlog number as on March 31st?
That's INR 10,735 million.
This will be executable over what period?
Typically the some orders may even be going to next year. Some orders could be going to next year, some would be in this year. Typically Our backlog is about seven to eight months of sales. You know, based on product, it ranges from some products may be deliverable in three to four months cycle, some may have six to eight months cycle.
On an average, six-eight months is the kind of number from the execution cycle. Okay. At the start of the call you mentioned that, you know, we're expecting the GDP growth rate of 6%-7%. Do we have any aspiration of X percentage of GDP growth is what we target or we believe is achievable for our kind of business?
Sorry, can you repeat?
We mentioned that we're expecting the GDP growth rate of 6%-7% for the current financial year. Just wanted to know that as our business can we assume like a 1.5X kind of GDP growth rate for our business?
It's difficult to comment. Just like of giving a forward statement which I said, as I said earlier, we don't give, so.
Okay, sure. Just something the other participant was asking, the gross margins for the year were 32%, almost 33%. This is not sustainable. Is that what you were mentioning earlier?
No. I said the gross margin for the year is, you know, gets averaged out. For the quarter it's something exception, right? If you say 36 is sustainable in the next quarter after quarter, it's. You have seen in the past also quarter-on-quarter gross margins can vary based on lot of factor. Obviously full-year gross margin definitely is sustainable and we need to maintain that or improve.
Going forward this number can improve incrementally, keeping in mind that our order book mix is also changing toward or is tilting towards transaction services, et cetera.
See, in principle there is no way other than improving the, growing the sales and improving the margin, right? There is not that you can continue to maintain same. It's a gradual process. You have to improve the profitability. No one can doubt that.
Sure. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Apoorva Bahadur from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. Wanted to know your thoughts on the RDSS scheme. What's the update over there? Are we seeing any pickup in the ordering and what could be the opportunity size for Schneider over here?
I wouldn't want to put a number on the opportunity size because of numerous reasons. The money I would say the investments are trickling in. Obviously the government had challenges in terms of coming out of COVID. The huge spend on the health infrastructure that happened during that period, et cetera, slowed down the intent of RDSS as a scheme. There are regulatory approvals which are also required for each of the investments. There's a bit of, you know, lag in what I call as intent and action. We do see those investments coming in gradually.
By when can we expect this ordering to pick up over here really? This year or next year?
I think it should pick up towards the later half of this year. My guess is as good as yours.
Sure, sir. Understood. Secondly, if you can, please share the export revenue for the year 2023.
Just give me a second.
Also where do we see it over the long term? Is there any percentage we are targeting for exports?
FY 2023 the export sales is INR 91,985 million. Last year it was INR 2,394 million. There was a slight drop in the export sales for the year.
What could cause this?
I mean as I mentioned earlier it's a project business, sometimes last year there was a jump on upside because of couple of big projects which we had, so it keeps on moving and sometimes like that.
Okay. Are we targeting a specific share over here, of the overall revenue? Say X percentage we would like to be exports.
Yeah, we see, we are, expecting a good increase in the export business from definitely, I mean one is the normal business as usual from the current operations, but also from the new factory which is coming up in Kolkata. That will lead to a good export, additional business from FY 2024-2025 once set as operational. You know, so that factory will lead to lot of exports.
How much would that be? If you can share the number.
I mean, I will not put a number right now because that factory will obviously, you know, it cater to both the domestic demand as well as export as well. A big part will be export. That will start coming from 2024, 2025 financial. That is a strict match input at right now.
Okay, Sir. Sir, if you can share the intergroup sales number for the year and also the order flow.
Intergroup sales for financial year 2023 was about 19%. The orders, intergroup was about in terms of WLDI, it was about INR 380 crores, INR 3,798 million in FY 2023.
379. Okay. Okay. I think that's all from my side. Thank you so much. All the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Raj Rishi, a private investor. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Can you just repeat the export number which you just mentioned?
Export number is, INR 1,985 million for this financial year.
Okay. In two-three years, what do you think, the export possibility is as a percentage of sales?
No, it has to grow, as per the, you know, overall business growth, and that is coming in. You know, additional, big volume will come from Kolkata new plant.
Okay. Okay.
We announced recently the work in progress for construction of that plant.
Okay. That is entirely for exports, right?
No, that will be domestic as well as export both.
Okay. Okay. How big is the railway opportunity for you? Like, whatever products you have in your on offer, how big is the railways? How big can it get in two-three years?
Two-three opportunities that you can see on the railway side.
Uh-huh.
One is urban transportation, which are the metros, which are greenfield constructions that are happening.
Okay.
Okay? Here you have a scope for your products such as air insulated switchgears, gas insulated switchgears.
Mm-hmm.
A little bit on the transformer side, not too much, and also.
Sure.
SCADA and software. The other opportunity is on the Vande Bharat trains, where we have out of our Kolkata factory, we supply them with a specific breaker, which is called as a locomotive breaker.
Okay.
You know the expansion plans of Vande Bharat, it's in public domain. I need not talk about it.
Ah.
So-
Yeah. Okay.
I think, that's very clear. We are one of the preferred suppliers there as well, so.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manish Goyal from Thinqwise Wealth Managers. Please go ahead.
Thank you so much, sir, congratulations to entire team on strong progress on turnaround of the company and for reporting historical high margins and also reducing the borrowings through some action. Very heartening, sir. Sir couple of things on our CapEx. What we have seen is that in current year we have spent INR 38 crore. Was it for our new facility in Kolkata, or it was for our existing facility to increase capacity? If you can highlight that. Second, on the CapEx for FY 2024 going forward, how do we see that? That's the first question.
Manish, for this CapEx for the new factory in this financial year was negligible, not very significant. This was mainly towards, you know, the additions for couple of machinery replacement and as well as, you know, some kind of safety refurbishment which we had to do. The fire, mainly the firefighting system, that is the big one which we had done in both plants. It's related to the existing setup, not to the new plant, kind of.
Okay.
Couple of machines we have replaced, so that is also coming.
Has it led to some capacity expansion as well for us, for our, switchgears and transformers?
No, not to any significant.
Sorry?
Not to any significant. You know, there was.
Okay. Okay.
Actually that was one big one was the safety setup. It was firefighting setup. That was the kind of non-negotiable thing, right? It was required. Another one, there was couple of machines which were quite old and completely repeatedly breaking down, which we had to replace.
Sure. Yeah.
These were big ones we have been kind of deferring to, you know, utilize as much as possible.
Okay.
to avoid the CapEx. That has also taken into it. Not a capacity, increase as such on due to the CapEx.
How much we intend to spend in FY 2024, towards Kolkata and other CapEx?
Kolkata, I mean, a big part of the CapEx which we announced, a major part will come in this year only because we expect to start production in next year, so.
Okay. roughly INR 130 odd crores what you have announced will happen.
100+ definitely. 100+ will come in this year only. Yeah. Minimum 100+ will be in this year.
Ideally, how do you see getting it funded? We saw some increase in your working capital also in the current year, and as we go forward, I believe we will continue to grow double digits. Do you think we can fund it through internal accruals or we might need to borrow?
Partly, I mean, internal accrual obviously has now from last two years consistently we are generating cash. This working capital increase also has been to some extent a timing issue because you saw we had good sales in this quarter and the last, even in the last quarter too it was towards the end. That has led to increase in, kind of, you know, the debtors and all, which is reflecting on the working capital increase. Overall, I mean, partly due internal accrual and maybe some borrowings as well, so which we have reduced currently. That's how. That's what we announced when we announced the CapEx as well, right?
Right. Right. Sir, what we see is that there is a increase in inventory. Particularly in this quarter we see that INR 42 crore increase and for the full year INR 63 crore. Is it that there has been some delay in dispatches or we are building up inventory for future dispatches where we have good orders?
No, it's not any, you know, inventory buildup as such for raw materials, nor any significant delay in the projects. It's the usual finished goods and WIP to meet to the demand of, you know, the goods, projects which have to be supplied in current quarter, the June quarter and the early part of September quarter. Which we should normalize. I mean, yeah, this has been high, but it's mainly WIP and the FG which will normalize. No, no major project as such where you have, you know, a very big delay in the inventory, the stock. There is nothing like it.
Right. A couple of questions more. On the transactional product side, how is the progress on empaneling new licenses and how is it that progressing and what is the traction we are seeing there? That is one question. Yeah.
Sanjay, you want to answer it?
Yeah. you are asking about the empanelment of the partners?
Yes, yes.
Yeah. That's going like as mentioned, it's progressing very well with the state utilities and the acceptance is growing and we see a fairly good amount of shift happening from direct servicing model to an indirect servicing model.
Okay. Okay. Ideally... No, the reason I was asking is that directionally as we intend that we probably move towards at least 40% of the revenue from transactional products, so we'll probably move on that journey.
Yeah, yeah. We will definitely move on that journey because you see, the more references that you build up, the more accepted it gets in the market, so.
Sure, sir. Again, on a question on the forward-looking, in terms of I just want to get a sense that, particularly Mr. Sanjay is like if we probably see what we have seen two years back and now, would you probably like to put some or give some perspective in numbers like in terms of inquiries or in terms of order pipeline, what is that growth you are seeing?
Order pipeline you can get a measure from the backlog number that Mayank mentioned. You can see the backlog order growth.
What I'm trying to understand, Mr. Sugathan is that like how is the like improvement in the environment? Are you seeing a big shift in terms of, you know, sourcing or... Because for us utility is a larger customer base and probably still RDSS is not probably getting fully implemented. Still you are seeing that the momentum building up from one website and on-
Yeah, yeah. Let me answer your question in a different way. You see the weightage on the power and grid segment has gone down because of our strategies of diversification. At one point in time it used to contribute almost 50% to our top line. Now it is contributing less than 40% to our top line.
Okay. Okay.
On the other hand you have growth prospects on the power and grid side because of the RDSS scheme. Even if it trickles in it is, it provides us with a good opportunity to grow over the base. Secondly the diversification agenda still continues.
Okay.
You can assess the risk of the portfolio by looking at the diversification strategy.
Sir, say on this RDSS what we see.
Sorry to interrupt Mr. Goyal. May we request that you return to the questions please?
Sure, sure.
Thank you.
I will. Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Nikhil Jain from Galaxy International. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Are you able to hear me clearly?
Yes. Yes.
Okay. Yeah. I just wanted to understand, let's say, one was on the CapEx in the new facility. Once fully operational, what is the kind of asset turns or kind of turnover that this new facility can add to our current top line? That was one. Yeah.
We don't want to talk about our business projections of the future right now, you know.
Mm-hmm.
We have a robust business plan. We have an ROI attached with it, and we've gone through the process very thoroughly. It's forward-looking, we don't want to get into a forward-looking discussion.
See, the only thing that I wanted to ask is let's say when fully implemented, it's not in FY 2025 or 2026. Whenever, let's say it is fully implemented or fully utilized, if you have, let's say 3x , 4x , 2x , whatever.
Sorry to interrupt. Sir, your audio's not clear, Mr. Jain. Can you use a handset maybe?
Okay. Yeah. Yeah, see, the point that I was trying to understand was on full utilization, not in the year 2020. It was not, let's say whether it will happen in FY 2025 or 2026 or whatever. That was my idea. If you can give some sense because
It will not give you a perspective because that is still only a component factory.
Three year, two year.
It's a component factory, and it's only a certain percentage of your overall sales. It would not give you a perspective. For that, if you want it to make sense, we will have to go into the breakup and things like that, which we wouldn't want to do that. Please appreciate that right now.
Okay. Okay, fair enough. The next question was, I just wanted to get a sense on, let's say, what are the key sectors, that, our order book is comprising of? Let's say in the last, discussion, you said that, power has come down to 40. What is the other, let's say, sectors which are emerging as an important, perspective for us?
See, we have time and again reiterated which are our focus segments.
Mm-hmm.
it's articulated in the presentation as well, which is mobility, which is transportation, emerging segments like semicon, which are again very power intensive, minerals, mining and metals. We have articulated all that in the strategy documents as well. Buildings and industrial now forms a pretty large substantial part of our overall portfolio.
Okay, fine. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is on the line of Sanjaya Satapathy from Ampersand Capital. Please go ahead.
Sir, thanks a lot for the opportunity and it is great to see significant improvement has been made during this year and several quarters of profitability now, which I'm assuming that will be giving the confidence to go ahead with the expansion plan which they have lined up. My question is that, you have reported this 10% kind of 10%-11% kind of order growth while the backlog growth is 15%. Can I just understand the reason between these two difference, like, is it because of some capacity constraint or something?
Mayank, you wanna take that?
See, backlog is what when we are seeing 15% growth, that is from the, you know, the same period last year, same rate as a absolute value growth, right? It's not just the order growth which will derive it. You have a order and then sales number also. It's not simply the just how much your order grows, that is the backlog growth. Yes, your point principally I agree. I mean, order growth has to be more. Probably sometimes what happens, it's a matter of some opportunities that say slipped from March, it goes into next year or something which is set in previous year and goes to next year that impacts.
To answer your question more specifically, we do not see any concern on capacity to execute orders. We did have some issues with regard to electronic shortages, et cetera, which did slow down the backlog burning. That situation is improving now. There is a mixed issue also. Sometimes you have infrastructure projects in your pipeline, primarily in the mobility sector, the transportations sector as we spoke about, which has a higher order to cash cycle. That is one of the reasons whereby which you could have a larger backlog growth than your order booking growth.
Understood, sir. I mean, if I can just ask the last question, that the company had gone through a tough time primarily because of.
Sorry to interrupt. Sir, may we request that you return to the question queue? There are participants waiting for their turn.
Sure.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Raghav Jain from Jain Investments. Please go ahead.
Namaskar. Kudos, congratulations, for your steady set of numbers. I have a question regarding this Vande Bharat train sets which you are talking about supplying them. Currently, of the current revenue, what is the percentage that of revenue goes to these Vande Bharat trains? Can you please tell me that?
We do not provide granularity details on sales by segment or sales by specific opportunities.
Mm-hmm.
We will not be in a position to answer that.
Okay. so far as this thing, this, electric mobility, this charging stations, where does the company stand with respect to the charging infrastructure scenario, which is in nascent stage in India? Where does the company stand as of now so far as, supplying of these charging stations and stuff like that? Can you please specify?
Yes.
Thank you.
As far as our strategy goes in this particular segment, we focus on primarily on the infrastructure which is behind the chargers. That is the powertrain, the electrification of the powertrain, low voltage, medium voltage, as well as the digitization of the networks. We have a very strong global line of business around mobility and EV charging. We have some very good use case examples from all over the globe that we bring to customers here. If I were to answer your question, we are tracking customers who are diversifying into EV charging. We provide them with architectures and the low voltage and medium voltage equipment which is required to power these charging stations.
The future opportunity, which I spoke about in one of our strategy calls, is on the microgrid opportunity, where these customers might want to use a mix of power generation sources, which is like solar and conventional generation put together, which will make the grid unstable and complicated. There we have solutions which are primarily software solutions, which will help the customer automate and digitize the grid and bring stability to the grid. These are the opportunities that we are working on, again, connected to services and software. On the charging infrastructure side, we are in a wait and watch mode, I would say.
Right now, if I may ask, are we executing anything in this, in this regard? Or it's just that we have just supplied something and stuff like that?
We are supplying electrification and the software solutions to the companies involved in EV charging.
Okay. Okay. Future is bright, right?
Future is bright. Yeah, you're right.
Thank you. Thank you. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll be taking the last question that is on the line of Utkarsh Somaiya, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. Can you please tell me the current capacity utilization of your current facility? Hello, am I audible?
Yes sir, you're audible. Please proceed.
Yeah. Can you please tell me the current capacity utilization?
It's difficult, I mean, to put a number to it because it's been an ATO business. There it takes a lot of factors, right? It's not a standard product where I can say, "Okay, my capacity is, 1 lakh unit per month and added 80,000, so capacity is 80% utilization.
Just for the product business, is it possible to give me?
No.
Okay. Okay. My next question is it possible for you to explain like, the cycle of how your sales are like? Is it that the first you sell your products and after that you sell edge control systems and then the apps and software? Or are there customers which don't buy products but do buy the other services?
Yeah, yeah. Good question. Both models exist. You could have a customer which is an installed base, and you could provide these softwares to them as installed base services.
Right.
which would entail a little bit of more planning, shutdown, et cetera, because then you would need to be intrusive. You would need to put in the sensors, et cetera. There are customers who are looking forward to modernizing their factories and digitizing their factories, so this opportunity exists. Once a customer has seen the benefits of this, he could say that, "In my new project, greenfield project which is coming up, I would like to do this end to end." That is where you supply natively connected products, as I spoke about earlier, and the edge control software and the apps and analytics all at one time.
Oh, understood. Do you come across customers which haven't used your products but yet would like to go for the other services we offer?
Yeah, yeah. Because some of the products that we. Some of the softwares and analytics that we have is also agnostic. As long as the communication protocols can be managed by the customer through a converter or whatever it is, we can still provide the customer with those services.
one such-
We believe in open architecture.
Mm-hmm.
closed architectures.
Is it fair to assume that only products comprises of maximum part of your revenue?
Yeah, of course. That's reality today.
Right. Still it's not possible to.
Sorry to interrupt, Sir. Mr. Somaiya.
It's just a follow on, please. It's still not possible to give us a certain, I mean, approximate utilization level if I'm only talking about products?
Like Mayank mentioned, it is not about just products, right? These are engineered to order equipment. A product could take 24 man-days to be manufactured. Another product could take 54 man-days to be manufactured based on certain design configurations that the customer needs. You cannot calculate capacity in terms of units.
Okay. Your capacity is limited by, I mean, is number of people, as opposed to.
Sorry to interrupt, but Mr. Somaiya, this was the last question that we could take.
I mean, it's just a follow on, but okay, if you could just answer that, it would be helpful.
I think let's stick to the protocol and the timing, so.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Mudit Kabra for his closing comments.
We thank Schneider Electric Infrastructure Management team for giving us an opportunity to host this call. We also thank all the investors and the analysts for joining this call. Any closing remarks you would like to mention, sir?
I'd like to give a big thank you to all the people who participated in the call, and I thoroughly enjoyed the interaction. Have a good day, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you.
Thank you, members of the management team. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Elara Securities Private Limited, that concludes this conference call. We thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.