Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Suzlon Energy Limited Q3 FY 2024 earnings conference call, hosted by JM Financial. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation. If you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. That's it, this is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sudhanshu Bansal from JM Financial. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Sagar. Good evening, everybody. On behalf of JM Financial, I welcome you all to the conference call of Suzlon Energy Limited to discuss the third quarter FY24 result. We have with us the leadership team of Suzlon, comprising Mr. J.P. Chalasani, CEO, Mr. Himanshu Mody, Group CFO. Thank you so much, sirs, for giving JM Financial the opportunity to host the call. With this, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Chalasani for opening remarks and taking the call forward. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Sudhanshu. Good evening, and thank you for joining us on our Q3 FY 2024 earnings call. I hope you had an opportunity to review our results and investor presentation. We will now share with you an overview of the industry, and we will talk... We'll walk you through our quarter three performance. We will then take your questions. India has witnessed a renewed optimism, backed by the good policy initiatives from the government, with a clearly laid roadmap for grid connectivity, with an approach for accelerating the deployment of wind power installations. The 2030 target of non-fossil fuel-based capacity includes a healthy mix of wind and solar capacities. As per the optimal cost generation mix outlook for 2030, the wind capacity in India is required to reach 100 gigawatts as a base case scenario.
On top of this target, there is a sizable demand from C&I segment, which further boost up the demand outlook for wind. In line with the new market scenario, wind capacity additions are now happening across all eight windy states. This can be seen in the order book state mix in the latest investor presentation. There will also be pooling of tariff, which will reduce the average cost of procurement of power for consumers, and at the same time will improve economic feasibility of new wind projects across different sites in India. With respect to order book, our cumulative orders of 3,157 megawatts include order book as on December 31, which is 2,090 megawatts, plus orders announced subsequently of 867 megawatts from Evren and Everrenew. This is a well-diversified and healthy order book from market customers.
Our endeavor going forward is to pursue quality orders with higher value and better margins. Our prime focus remains on executing and building an order book. The order from Evren, a JV entity, of 642 MW, is the single largest order won by Suzlon in India. This shows scaling up of project sizes in India and confidence in Indian market. Our wind business continues to do well with over 13.5 GW of capacity in India. The growth of the wind sector will also help OEM, as a major source of revenue comes from the supply of wind components. With strong fundamentals and strong sectoral value, Suzlon is now well placed to leverage the market opportunity arising from the energy transition. I would now like to invite Himanshu to take you through our financial performance.
Thank you, J.P. Chalasani, sir, and good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I will be using slide numbers 17-24 of our investor presentation, which is now being uploaded on our website, as the reference point for my discussion during this presentation. Q3 FY 2024 has seen us register robust improvement in all our key parameters, and fundamentals have strengthened with the focus on the bottom line. We have made deliveries of 170 MW in Q3 FY 2024. On the P&L front, renewed focus on bottom line has resulted in substantial reduction in quarterly net finance costs by over 94%, year-on-year basis. We stand at about INR 5 crore in Q3 FY 2024 versus INR 80 crore in Q3 FY 2023.
Depreciation of INR 38 crore in this quarter is comparatively lower on account of lower amortization of molds for our S120, which will be 2.1 MW modules. Consolidated PAT before exceptional items for Q3 FY 2024 stands at INR 203 crore versus Q3 FY 2023, of INR 78 crore, registering a growth of 2.6x in our PAT. Talking of nine-month performance, consolidated PAT and before exceptional items, it has gone up from rupees, to INR 433 crore in nine months FY 2024 versus INR 98 crore for nine months of FY 2023, registering a 4.4x year-on-year growth on our PAT numbers.
We are pleased to report a very strong and healthy balance sheet as of December 2023, which demonstrates a very strong position of strength, where our net worth stands at INR 3,626 crores and our net cash position stands at INR 719 crores as of December 2023. Vis-à-vis a net debt of INR 1,180 crores as of March 2023. This is a swing of over INR 2,000 crores in a matter of nine months.
...The economy, of course, is on a very strong footing, as said by J.P. here, and the sectoral tailwinds that we are witnessing continue to be very strong, with a renewed focus on the renewable energy sector. All of this augurs very well for Suzlon. With that, I'd like to conclude my brief presentation, and we can now open the floor for any Q&A that the callers may have. Thank you.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets only while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, good evening, sir, and-
Good evening.
Thank you for the opportunity. And it's very heartening to see a strong accretion order book. So my first question is, sir, the, of course, we have a very strong order book, but execution, in especially in the Q3, has been only, only 170 MW, while we are having an order book of 3.2 GW. So can we see a higher execution in Q4? And can you give some tentative timeline of execution of this entire order book of 3.2 GW? Hello?
Apologies for that. Ladies and gentlemen, the line for the management has been dropped. Please stay connected while I reconnect the line back. Ladies and gentlemen, the management line is connected back.
Hey, Mohit. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Should I repeat myself, sir?
Please, we heard you partly. Please go ahead.
My question was, the execution for Q3 was only 170 MW, but you're carrying an outstanding order book of 3.2 GW. How do you see the execution in Q4, and, and how do you... how one can expect these, these, these 3.2 GW to flow into our revenues for the next, some tentative timelines, yeah?
The order book that we have 3.2 GW, Mohit, what you're saying is, partly most a part of your for this year, and this is for the next year, that is FY 2025 and also for FY 2026. As you know, about the orders are becoming long term, in the years between 18-24 months is what the supply completion happens in the order date. So that's how the orders are. So therefore, this is a split between, small portion this year, significant portion next year, and the following year, FY 2026. As far as this year is concerned, yes, we delivered 170 GW this quarter. Obviously, the question is, from so much large order book, why only 170? There are two factors for that.
One is that, we deliver as per the requirement of the project sites. As you know that in a significant portion of our order book is also non-EPC, depending upon the sites we deliver. That's one. There are some clients who rescheduled their requirements because of the likely delay in their evacuation system, the EPC system, from time to time. But also we had little slow progress in the memory because of the delay in, you know, time of the working party, which has come in, you know, significant portion has come in December. I think these put together is what is created, the volumes, but now it is, we expect now it continue to grow, because as far we are concerned now, the work is actually there and the orders are there.
Understood. So are you maintaining the execution guidance of 800 megawatt for this fiscal?
I don't think we ever gave a guidance. This is the expectation of the market. So I neither say yes nor say no at this stage.
Understood, sir. My second question is on the given. We have seen a very high trending activity from the PSU side, especially NTPC, Suzlon, SJVN and NLC. And I think they also tender out from KL for 300 MW. It's a sizable amount of opportunity. Are you participating? Are we participating in these tenders?
So we don't, we are a OEM and EPC player. We don't participate in the bids directly. We support anybody's participating in the bids, maybe buyer or the force will become force and implementation of this. But we don't directly participate in this because we are not an IPP. But you are right, there's a significant amount of bids been done till now and as well as being announced. In fact, as we speak, I think there's roughly about 15 gigawatts of bids are open today. And then we expect, depending upon the different types of models, about 15 gigawatts of wind would be there in that model. And then perhaps it's an opportunity, not as a participant.
... Sir, I was referring to the wind OE tenders, which NTPC has 1,000 MW of-
Yeah. We have done, but right now we have not yet started participating in PPA tenders because of some requirements of qualification criteria with respect to net worth, the previous one. So therefore, once we get qualified, we'll bid for that. As our balance sheet is getting strengthened, when we get qualified for that, then we'll participate. We used to participate earlier, but in between, because of our balance sheet going negative net worth, so we don't meet the, we don't meet the qualification criteria. So moving ahead, now we will qualify, then we'll start participating. Sorry, I think that I was talking about tenders, not EPC tenders, I think otherwise. But the EPC tenders, we would participate in future, but right now we are not participating.
Okay. My last question is on, sir, the EPC order book I think has 25%, if I'm not wrong. That we thought that EPC order book will see a slightly higher accretion. Is there something? Can you just please comment on that? Why the EPC order book is set on the lower side?
Okay. In fact, if you look at, considering what we announced yesterday, it's, it's about 28% is our EPC order book. But having said that, the EPC business is actually year-on-year, but otherwise, there's a smaller portion is in EPC. It's like we do a part, there are three categories: We do EPC, we do equipment supply, erection, and then we do the principal supply. So they're different categories. So it depends upon what market wants. So if the people want EPC, then we offer the EPC services. People want either supply the equipment and do the erection, we do that. If the people want supply, erection, and foundation, we do that. It's a question of we provide a lot of services for them to choose.
So what is in the market, we can meet end-to-end requirement. In fact, we are the only OEM, we are the only large OEM in India today, which offers end-to-end EPC services.
Understood, sir. Thank you, and all the best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Rahul Kotak from Credit Suisse. Please go ahead.
Hello. Yeah. Hi, sir, first of all, very congratulations, and for the amazing result, and also for winning such a large single order of 642 megawatts. Congratulations for that. And sir, can you help me understand more on the ecosystem regarding the EPC or we can say BOP system in place, considering the significant increase in the wind sector. So how is this industry gearing up to cope up with the requirement of the OEM manufacturers? I would like to understand it on three fronts: how Suzlon itself is gearing up for the execution, how IPP players, if they are looking to execute on their own, and is there any significant players available to take up this execution task?
I will talk about Suzlon, and I'll talk about the sector. Obviously, how IPP is coping up, I am not the right person to answer the question. We, as I was answering the previous question, as far as we are concerned, Suzlon is concerned, if anyone wants EPC scope, we are there to provide EPC scope. And, if anyone wants the other piece, and we are there to provide the other piece. We are, as I said earlier also, that we are the only OEM who provides EPC. Other OEMs today are not providing EPC services. So therefore, what's happening is that for post equipment supply, the balance work to be done, for instance, BOP work, et cetera, we need to depend upon the other players who are coming up in the market today.
But we don't, in our view, we still don't have enough capacity built up in that. This is what we are really seeing in terms of capacity addition. Even in the first nine months, we are still struggling at 2.1 gigawatts of capacity addition, and we had a much bigger target for this year. So that's, that is one, going to be a concern moving ahead. One is the capacity building and execution of BOP, and secondly, still there's a concentration of projects in places like Karnataka and so forth. So there are issues with respect to land acquisitions are delayed, which is a fact. The land availability is delayed, plus the execution capability. So therefore, we are continuing to struggle, and we will continue to struggle for some more time in terms of overall capacity within the country.
Okay. And, sir, also regarding like, the 3-megawatt wind turbine, I understand there would be different height and different set of cranes requirement for this. So considering that, and earlier time, there was like 2-megawatt turbines, so crane requirement were different. So, is there still, like, is the industry with regards to crane availability still there? Is coping up with re- with respect to the growth in the wind industry?
Yeah. Answer is yes, because the crane supply companies are also tracking the sector in a big way, and then they know that what model is coming up much in advance. Even when we start announcing a new model and putting up the prototype, they know that Suzlon is coming out at the time of this model. They stick with us, they understand what is the requirement of the cranes, and they get those cranes in time. In fact, right today, we are either up already for the cranes what we need for the next year. So there are adequate cranes available. As long as, you know, we are talking to the people in advance and then picking them up. And because we are constantly in the business, we still have a relationship with each of the crane suppliers.
So we don't see, in our case, at least I can't comment on the other state, we don't see that as a concern, including for 160-meter hub height. That is what we're going to do now, 3.15 megawatt.
Okay. Okay. And sir, last question, regarding this hybrid project. I understand lots of projects are also coming in the hybrid in nature, with solar and wind together or solar and battery, wind plus battery, et cetera, RTC-based. So how Suzlon, like, participates or provides its products to the other players in such kind of order segments?
Yeah. So if you look at, analyze the 15 gigawatts of orders, in which, which are outstanding today, 9.5 gigawatts is what we call this F DRE, which fixed the stacks, are renewable energy grids, okay? That which would include the solar, wind, and storage system. And then there about 2.6 gigawatts is a pure wind. So we don't find the pure solar anywhere, but we'll significantly the big 15 gigawatts in this capacity for DRE and pure wind. In the 15 gigawatts grid, we connected 15 gigawatts is required if you want to meet different types of 15 gigawatts of wind is required, different capacity. So when the IPP, let's say, is doing an ERD or doing a hybrid, wind portion their process, then obviously we'll develop the wind project for them.
No one has come to us till now; it's a coming future. If there is a hybrid to coordinate the whole thing, we are going to coordinate, but otherwise we will provide the pure wind portion of it.
Okay. Okay. Thank you. That's it from my end. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Raj Rishi from DCPL. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Just wanted to understand your perspective on this supply side. Like demand side, the government is talking about a certain level of capacity addition for the next 5-7 years. C&I is talking about a certain level, green hydrogen is there and repowering, et cetera, is there. So that's the demand side, which seems to be very robust. Now, as far as the supply is concerned, do you foresee any chance of oversupplying the domestic market in India? Or that's like—I just would like to hear you out on this.
Yeah, I think the demand obviously is expected to be there because of increasing the opportunity itself. Obviously the whole demand is not seen today subscribed to, if you look at the, I think roughly about 13 gigawatts or something, including the initial optional gigawatts recently, 44 together, but subscription is only about 7 gigawatts. What would decide is not the supply of equipment, the capacity addition would really depend upon how much can we convert this supply pipeline into commission capacity. That's where the concern we are facing today in the country. So as I said something, that is what is going to decide as a country, how much we are going to add the capacity.
If that is getting slowed down and not ramping up significantly, then obviously you will have a backward impact on how much will be the surplus required. So basically, the commissioned capacity would actually decide the demand on the supply of equipment, but not the demand of the final customers. That's our clear view.
Okay. Okay, thanks a lot.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nikhil Abhyankar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you, and congrats on a good set of numbers. So my first question is regarding the profitability of WPG segment. So it has been low in the first nine months. So what exactly is the reason for this, sir? And how will the trend be going forward?
So, hi, Himanshu. So in terms of WPG segment, we've always maintained that, you know, our breakeven points are close to about 600 megawatts. So, you know, so long as we're able to deliver 600 megawatts in any given year, the WPG business, manufacturing business on its own, will break even at the EBITDA level after meeting the fixed costs.
Mm-hmm.
So we continue to maintain that. You know, in the nine months so far, we've done about 437 megawatts of deliveries. So a large part of the fixed costs have, you know, already been absorbed, through these deliveries that have happened over the nine months. And of course, based on the deliveries that we do in Q4 of this financial year, I think the WPG segment is, well on its way to have, a reasonably decent operating profit on its standalone basis.
Okay. So, as and when the volumes increase, probably next year, the margins are expected to go up?
That's correct. Yes.
Okay. And, sir, the second thing was regarding, the, it is, industry-specific question. So recently, pure wind, tenders have seen, like, if the tender is for, say, 100 megawatts, the bidding is done only for 20, 30, 14 megawatts. So what exactly is the reason for this? What are the problems that IPPs are facing?
No, I think it is not specific to bid. Like I said sometime back, overall, I think gigawatts bidding time about 7 gigawatts is subscribed. Even if you see the latest, hybrid bidders coming in, which is instead of doing 2,000 megawatts.... and which was the, the latest bid that happened in end of January, only 200 megawatts got subscribed. So that is not specific to wind. It is generally, what's happening is that compared to the bids that are coming in, the subscription level is, are becoming little low. That could be because everybody's got, you know, already bid out earlier bid and then acquired, acquired capacity. And second, also, it is also because there could be a potential diversion of concentration towards the same segment and the big PPA.
So that could also be another reason, we assume that there is under-subscription, but that is not specific to the wind.
So what exactly happens to this unallocated capacity, will it get abandoned?
Well, they're coming up. Like I say that, now as we speak, where I said that only 7 gigawatts is subscribed, the next 15 gigawatts of this out, they're already in the market.
Okay.
So which is said that, you know, many megawatts of FDRE and about 2.6 gigawatts of pure wind bids, whether it's NTPC or SECI, those which are there, out there already in the market. There is, one will continue to come out with bids. So if the overall picture is fine, the next bid will come again.
Okay. Thank you. That's all for now.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. If you have a follow-up question, you can rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Deepesh Agarwal from UTI Asset Management Company. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good evening, gentlemen. My first question is, of the current order book, how much is the pure product supply that is without erection?
It's okay, EPC is about 28%-30%. So 70% is the non-EPC. In that, you will have a, you know, let's say almost like 50/50%, which is in the supply versus some portion of other erection or, you know, some other portion is before that.
Okay. So would there be a possibility of delays in projects where only product supply is there because the customer erection is dependent on customer?
Yeah, yeah. So not, not just to delays. In fact, we are also seeing some of our customers which got supplied, let's say three, four quarters back, are still getting commissioned. So there are delays. There are obviously delays. That's the point which I was making earlier. There are the sectors where facing headwinds in terms of capacity to capacity build up for doing the BOP work, on-the-ground work. So not the supply, supply chain, but more so on the project execution side. Because there are hardly any large players in the project execution. As I said, that, you know, they are the only large OEM which is doing the project execution, the others don't do it. Okay? We only get suppliers, and that's how the job is over.
Sure. But in terms of your delivery commitment to the clients, how much of this 3,157 megawatt would be for next year?
I can't say that, because that would actually be giving you guidance numerically. As I said, some of that in this 3.2 gigawatts of order book is whatever we said yesterday. Significant portion of that is for FY 2023, and also, some portion of that is for FY 2026. But specifically to say when it is, it's difficult for two reasons. One is that, what schedule we agreed today is different, and also that when project starts getting executed, then, you know, what would become the actual delivery schedule, depending upon the client side and everything, will be different. So, now, unless you get closer, then we won't be able to come up what is likely to do. For the reasons what we discussed sometime back on the site agreements and project agreements and execution capabilities.
Sure. Sure. In the last time when we met, you mentioned that, despite having a 4,500 MW, there will be a gradual increase in the capacity. Basically, you'll have to invest in some of the capacity on supply chain, et cetera. So can you help us understand the ramp up in both erection, wind capacity and the product supply capacity? How that is happening now?
So erection capacity, there is nothing as called the capacity is required. So what is required is your organization bandwidth increasing. For each project you open up, then you get a set of leadership and the workforce required there. That's the key expansion time to time, depending upon what capacity you're executing on it. There is no significant CapEx required in terms of, you know, project execution. As far as the supply is concerned, we, as of currently, whatever capacity is required, we already committed, am I right, Manju, for the-
Yes, yes. So I mean, on the CapEx side, then, you know, there is a sustenance CapEx of about INR 100 crore, which historically the company has been incurring. But, you know, particularly for the ramp up that we are seeing, that we invest in the 3-megawatt molds, we may be looking at a delta CapEx of about INR 250 crore a year. So which, you know, we are quite comfortable with meeting from our own internal crores.
Okay. So practically, if the orders are available, we can even go to 4,000 MW-4,500 MW execution in a year?
It's not so simple, you know, to say the capacity. See, manufacturing capacity versus the supply capacity are two completely different parameters. We might have 4 GW of supply capacity, but that is when you run this like a platform machine, okay? But it doesn't happen that way. If a couple of your suppliers are made ready but not taken, not dispatched, then, you know, you don't have a place to manufacture the next one. So therefore, there will be missing. Therefore, it's what is creating how much is a manufacturing capacity. These are not like a mass production you just produce and send it out. It also depends upon offtake of capacity. Again, we come back to the same thing. Everything gets decided based on what is the offtake at the project sites.
That will decide our manufacturing capacity, that will decide our capacity. Yes, if everything is ideally, if, if whatever we produce is taken out on time, what you say is right.
Okay. Okay, thank you, and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aadesh Mehta from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Congratulations on good set of order inflows. I just, I just wanted to understand, you know, since January is already over, would it be possible to know what is our execution run rate for January?
We don't provide, unfortunately. We don't provide that guidance. So we've not been providing in the past as well.
Okay, no worries, sir. And sir, in terms of, you know, when we are seeing the new tenders, right? We are seeing that the delays have been, especially the SECI and the NTPC tender, the delays have been, you know, slightly more than what we would have initially expected. And even then, the, the bid, there is some delay in the bidding. Sir, can you, you know, as an industry participant, articulate that, you know, why the recent SBRE, you know, contracts are running in some delays, and, even in terms of, bidding, you know, not the entire amount is being bid for?
It's because of the appetite in the sector today for absorbing the bid.
Yes.
That's, that's what we were discussing sometime back. Obviously, there is an undersubscription, on an overall basis with respect of what they prefer to do. That could be one, because the players are, currently bit saturated, or also they're looking at, risk of execution, so therefore they don't want to take the risk beyond the X amount of capacity, which is already bit uncertain. So one of the reasons also mainly could be because we have been simply concentrating on C&I segment, which doesn't come to the bidding board. So this is outside... In fact, even if you look at our, our current order book, what we have, it is 50% C&I.
Got it, sir.
Even more, but for the large order what we announced yesterday, otherwise our C&I segment is actually more. So that could also be causing, you know, people absorbing less in terms of big PPAs, which is utility PPAs.
Got it, sir. So, sir, you know, while there is a saturation at the developer level, there could be some transmission bottlenecks, right? Sir, with those delays continue, what is your outlook on, you know, how long can those delays continue?
I wish I have an answer, exact answer for that. See, let's look at this year. This year is 2.1 gigawatts done in the nine months. So the... Our estimate is anywhere between 3.2-3.5 gigawatts is what we'll achieve this year. Okay?
When you're saying this year, so in next, so let's say in three months, another one gigawatt of execution should happen on ground.
1 MW of commissioning will happen on ground, not execution. So execution is a different area, because sometimes it may be in fact even ready, but substation is not ready, so they're not commissioned. So under 1 GW of commissioning will happen. Okay? Out of 3. So like a 2.1, 2.1 to 3.0, so that's the best case scenario what could happen, compared to what we were thinking as a country, we will cross the FY 2017 figure of 9.5 GW. But before the, the again, what will happen in FY 2025? Our estimates are, as a country, if we resolve some of these capacity building issues in terms of DNO, it is, it could go 5-6 GW next year. So-
Okay, so
... More than the planning constraints that would be there, but more than that is execution constraints what we're facing in terms of capacity as well as availability of land, right of way, et cetera.
Mm, got it, sir. So next year, 5-6 gigawatts should be doable, right?
That's our estimate at this stage.
Mm.
From our view. Actually, government may be thinking more. So this even this year, we always maintain it will be top four, like the guidance what we've been saying quarterly. That, I think that's what would happen. It could be max 3.5 this year.
Got it, sir. Wish you all the best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Abhishek Dutta from Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers Limited. Please go ahead.
Hello. Sir, can you just update, like, so favorable economics have got because of economies of scale. How big is the space for import when the demand access scenario improves?
You mean the turbine imports?
Yes, sir.
No, turbine per se cannot get imported because of the size of blades and size of the piece. What people can do is that they can import the raw material. So that's what some of the large players today in the market are doing, because first of all, you can supply only provided you have got a listing in RLM from MNRE. RLM also provides for either you manufacture or you assemble in India. So therefore, once they get listed in RLM, they can import the raw material, and that is what some of the players are doing today, importing the raw material, but converting them into turbines here. For example, blades are there. You can get the entire raw material from there, which is major cost of it, and converting into blades, putting them out here.
And you get all your components and erection equipment and assemble them as a nacelle and tower. So that's what can happen, and power is basically anybody can do the downstream manufacturing here. Import of components is happening, but not import of turbines per se.
Okay. But we can do the assembly like any clerk can who is registered in that the directory can actually import from China at a lower cost and assemble in India and participate in the bid?
Yeah. Yeah, right now there is... As long as your turbine is processes done in India, so that is done and certified and got listed in RLM, yes, you can import equipment. Today, there is no specific restriction of that, how much component, how much portion of your wind turbine has to be domestic, how much has to be imported. It's, that restriction doesn't exist today. Theoretically, you can import 90%-95% of your material from outside and convert them, assemble them or convert them into place and then turbine. Yes.
Okay. And secondly, sir, like, when you say the non-EPC part is 70%, what do you exactly mean? Like, it will be like parts of the wind turbines, blades, or how do you define that?
No, no, no, no. When I said the EPC scope means it includes the land, securing the land, developing the land, doing the foundation, doing the erection, doing the fabricated system, doing the full substation, and integrating the whole thing. That's an EPC. Okay? So there are the other portions that one extreme is, the other extreme means that we just supply the equipment, and we supervise the erection and commissioning. We only supervise. We supply the equipment, we deliver the equipment at the doorstep of the project. That's other extreme. In between the two, there could be different variations, saying that, you know, we just, we can supply plus do direction, or we can do supply, some erection plus foundation, but don't do the land portion or don't do the fabricated system. There are different models.
That scope can keep varying, and we cater to any type of a scope. We do the supply chain as well as we supply the whole turbine.
Okay. Okay, sir, thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dhruv Muchhal from HDFC Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah, sir. Thank you so much. So the question was that, the execution, probably, as you mentioned, is probably a big thing to monitor and see. So next year, you mentioned probably that the industry can do probably 5-6 GW. But so over, say, next 3-5 years, do you see the ecosystem and, you know, the setup moving towards greater than 6 or probably 8 GW? Because it seems demand is there, whatever multiple factors as have been mentioned earlier. Can the execution, you know, exceed 6-8 GW per annum? Is that, I mean, is that the sight visible there, and do you think the ecosystem is moving in that direction?
See, obviously, there is going to be an improvement from year-on-year. Like, for example, we have been struggling in the last five years to do anywhere between 1.5-2.1 GW.
Mm-hmm.
Whereas in this year, first nine months, we've done 2.1 gigawatts. So there is an improvement. There is a wish in the complete industry, including government, that we should hit 8 gigawatts a year. Whether that will happen in FY 2027. Definitely not in FY 2027 or 2028. That will happen in FY 2026, and FY 2027 is what we are waiting to see. But the capacity building is happening. There are more and more players coming in, in terms of providing PoP services. But then, how much, how quickly and how fast they can do, plus the issues like, the, as I said, the funding capacity, second is the land-related issue are continuing to grow. But that problem is somewhat being reduced once you do the multi-stage bidding. Okay?
Mm-hmm.
Because then the concentration of projects won't happen. Today, Karnataka is a peak. You go to Karnataka, then you will see how people are really struggling to get even one, one footprint in the, state. Now with new bidding coming out and the bidding for MP, the bidding for other places, now slowly the other states is opening up. So if you, if you see our, the matrix today, the order, the number of states where we're getting the orders is diversifying. If that happens, obviously your land problems also would come down, so therefore you slowly reach towards 8 gigawatt. But when, we won't be able to get this stage, maybe by FY 2027.
Mm-hmm. Got it. And, sir, you mentioned that, concentration away from land, I mean, multiple states will help. But, is that a constraint for developers? Because, say for example, if you move to MP, the cost of generation increase. Is that a factor? I'm just trying to understand. Is that the reason they're not moving, I mean, themselves moving there, what, what's holding them back? I mean, if the issue is,
No, no. If you move to MP, the developers, there will be land available. To solve the problem of tariff going up in the states where there's been potential generating-... is what we came up with this pooling tariff concept.
Pooling tariff. Okay, got it. Got it.
We announced, that in fact, therefore, the Grid India is an, operating agency, and the whole, notification has come up, except for the date from which it has been applicable. In fact, this pool tariff system is not just for the wind alone, they're saying for every type of model. Pure wind, pure solar, pure hybrid, etc., is the same. And, based on the each capacity coming into the pool, they will be reviewing the overall tariff, and which is what Grid India will update from time to time.
Mm.
The bidders will continue to get the tariff what they quoted, but the tariff for the discount would keep changing based on the pool.
Got it. Yeah, now I understand. That I have followed, sir. So the second question was-
What happened is the diversification in the states happened-
Mm.
and then the, those availability happened. Our second option is that we do a proactive development, like, like, today we are trying to do a proactive development in, in the states of AP and Rajasthan, with the, the government's cooperation of identifying X amount of state land, saying that, "Okay, this is the area you get, rights to develop." So therefore, we are going ahead in that model and working with the different, clients, saying that, "Let's do a joint development and first secure the land," so that, you know, the- it will fit to the project. In that model we have started right now, in between, in AP as well as in Rajasthan.
Mm-hmm. Mm. Got it. And sir, thanks, sir. And the second question was on the hybrid projects. I think you earlier mentioned, some of the comment you mentioned that you are okay, I mean, you are also looking at doing both wind for a hybrid project, the solar portion also. So, what component are we you know think looking at doing here, I mean, the whole ecosystem of solar or just the AP, yeah?
We are not, we don't volunteer to do solar, let me be clear.
Mm.
We don't want to volunteer to solar because that is not our forte. Okay? Because you need to price everything in detail, and the EPC is much handling things. But if someone says that, "You know, we don't want to participate and do the two different packages, would you, would you want to do the hybrid?" We will look at that option as a whole. But basically, but there are still a large portion of wind and smaller portion of solar. But till now nobody has come up, because obviously everybody limits the projects to their strength. In solar, most of the people are putting their own modules and just up the players to the implementation. They are giving the wind portion to us. That requirement has not come.
I only said if such a scenario arises, we will definitely consider, but that is not our preferred option.
Mm. Got it. Perfect, sir. Thank you so much, and all the best. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of G.A. from Niveshaay Investment Advisors. Please go ahead.
So, sir, I had a question on related to the crane availability. It is more sort of from an industry point of view. I just wanted to understand, so I understand that the company has good contracts and good relations with the crane rental company, but I wanted to understand from an industry perspective that is the availability of high-tonnage cranes. Is there a shortage in them?
See, the infrastructure constraints at initial stages will happen. It all depends upon what is the ramp up rate. Let's say that this year we do 3.5 GW, next year we want to do 8 GW, then obviously that, do we have a required infrastructure, then sufficient cranes available or not, would become an issue. But if you are moving 3.5-5 GW, 5-7 GW, it's a different situation. Not just the cranes, cranes is only one part of it, you know, your entire transportation ecosystem, you know, because these are the large diameter of the projects are coming up now. So all that becomes an important, which place the project location is there, because it will be work, the road survey, logistics, and that way also will become constraints. Sometimes you need to modify some bridges, strengthen the bridges.
But that's, I think that's what is the... That will always be there for any power project, whether you're doing a fossil fuel-based project or wind project, these will be there. But the looking at the entrepreneurship in the crane companies, if there is a demand, I don't see them not making the ramping of that capacity. There could be a slight mismatch here and there, but I don't see that as an issue at all, because there are enough cranes available globally for this capacity.
Correct, sir. And sir, are we seeing any increase in the rent, rentals of these cranes, the high-tonnage cranes particularly?
This is, you know, it depends on time to time, you know, it's also a supply-demand situation.
Okay.
Then we have a relationship with these people working for, let's say, 10 years, 15 years, then that relationship will be different. So I won't be able to comment for the market as a whole. It depends, a lot on your relationships, what sort of a minimum guaranteed, you know, capacity you're giving it to them. The number of factors which play a role in terms of your pricing.
Got it, sir. Also, sir, I had this question that, you know, we face a lot of the EPC players particularly, face a lot of, difficulties in the land acquisition process. So is there any, relief from the government or are there any policies, helping the wind sector in the acquisition part?
See, this is land is a state subject. Okay? So each state you go, you need to work with the local authorities to see that how strict it are. Even if there's a process, implementation, so implementation could become potential issues. This will continue. If it's a revenue land, you have a little more easier; if it's a private land, it's more cumbersome. You know, some states where it's more and more... And state to state it differs. Maybe if you go to Rajasthan, it's much easier, but today Karnataka is difficult. So it varies, but this is a problem which we need to live with where we are. Sometimes it's easier, sometimes it's tougher... and, you know, we need to continue. And this is not new to, the, just the wind sector.
Land acquisition has always been an issue for any infrastructure project. More so for the wind, because you have multiple sections, and then also you need to have pathways, and your cranes have to reach, your blades have to reach the site. These problems will be more. That is the reason what we are facing the more roadblocks in terms of execution.
Correct, sir. Sir, I had this company-specific question: That as we have a very good, you know, non-increasingly order book, so are we looking at higher execution, higher execution from, you know, from a point of delivery point in maybe a year or so, in FY 2025 or 2026?
You mean higher, higher delivery of inaudible?
Higher deliveries of WPG.
Yeah. So what happens is that when we are doing the [inaudible], then it is our organized capability of how much is the land acquired, and then how much we are [inaudible]. To that, if you add the our clients who are doing their own acquisition of land, there are obviously multiple parties are working on it. So that would definitely increase the capacity of offtake, so our supply could definitely would increase in that mix. Other than [inaudible] versus part [inaudible], part equipment supply onto the year, the supply of equipment would increase. Finally, our supply of equipment would increase.
Correct, sir. That was really helpful. Thanks a lot, and all the best for the future quarters.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, just to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants, would strictly insist participants to just go ahead with two questions per participant. The next question is from the line of Mr. Sudhanshu Bansal from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Sir, how do you see the repowering opportunity, particularly, in terms of availability of the land, where we already have the land and transmission system?
Repowering is a good subject, and a good wish to go out and do that. But I don't think that's going to move anything in a big way in the next couple of years. Repowering policy has come, but the repowering could have happened even without the policy. The repowering policy only helps to a limited extent that in case if you have a PPA, that PPA can get suspended for some years, and that PPA will continue later on, based on the previous, previous average generation to the rest, and then the PPA continues. So other than that, there is nothing significant in the policy. So nothing more than that.
The issue is that today, if somebody wants to do repowering, you go there, you remove the existing ones, put up the new ones, and most of the repowering options are available with the state being connected, STU connected. So incremental capacity, if that state doesn't take, then you need to go somewhere, then you get into issues that you have inter-state grid, the state open access, state transmission charges. What really happens? There are plenty of issues. You know, like, ideally said, generation from a given site can go up by doing repowering, but does it give a significant impact on the cost of generation at this stage? You know, the answer is still not there. So repowering would happen in my opinion, but not like, you know, it's going to happen something.
So as we were just limited 24 gigawatts of repowering potential, but the realization is going to take time now.
Okay, thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepesh Kashyap from Invesco Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for taking my questions. So your contribution margin is lower quarter-on-quarter by, like, 2% odd. Can you please explain the reason for that?
The first contribution margin, you're talking on a consolidated basis or for a particular business division?
The consol that you have given in the PPT.
So Console, Deepesh, also is a factor of, you know, how much of the supplies are we doing in the WPG segment for the overall business. So, you know, I urge you to look at contribution margin from a business segment-wise. So, you know, our direction always has been that for the WPG manufacturing, contribution margin will be in the mid-teens. So, you know, currently, we are at about 17.5% contribution margin for the WPG manufacturing business, which is actually fairly in line with our, you know, plans. It was higher in Q1 at about 20%, but that we had when we hosted the call in Q1, we'd mentioned that that is an aberration and cannot be taken as the standard going forward.
But I would say that, you know, somewhere around mid-teens would continue as the contribution margin for the manufacturing business. So far as the wind farm business is concerned, the contribution margin will be roughly a little north of 60%, which continues to be the case. Of course, the blend on a consolidated basis will depend on, you know, what is the mix of the manufacturing numbers along with the OEM numbers.
Understood, sir. Secondly, if you can also highlight what part of your order book is still for the 2 megawatt turbines? And secondly, also you mentioned earlier in the call that you're not participating in that PSU orders, right? So just want to understand, how will you maintain or increase your market share? These are two questions. Thank you.
See, the 120 share today in the, in the 3.1 gigawatts is about, roughly, roughly about 22%. It's 15 megawatts share. I don't know, what do you mean by the, the market share in what? Is it in order book or is it in suppliers or commissioning? In the commissioning, we're maintaining 30% market share consistency as far as I'm concerned with the. As I said, that the option of NTPC equipment tender is one of the options for us to increase the order book. At this stage, we are not having a position for, you know, not participating in that is reducing any capacity as such, because we're, we are seeing significant interest flowing in terms of order books for us.
We announced, and then we, we do have a number of potential orders which we discussed in the previous meeting. While we would love to participate in this tender, but I don't think that's significant number affecting, any number affecting our, no, order book share.
So just to be clear, like your, with the improved balance sheet, with the net worth and everything, are you now allowed to participate in that, those orders or not?
See, NTPC has a different type of qualifications. They are not with this today, they look at. There's a different formula. See, unless they say that, in fact, they are saying that we participate, obviously, because we are the largest NTPC player. So, you want to answer that one?
So we do, of course, qualify the case, and it also depends as it means everything on the qualification criteria. But, once our March 2024 audited numbers are out, sometime in May, we report that there would be clearly no doubts about our qualification, because that would be the first sort of audited balance sheet with a positive net worth that we'd be issuing. So there would be no gray area. We certainly would qualify under all the parameters in those tenders.
But then also we will evaluate each of those bids in terms of ultimate opportunity, what is within there, because we have a huge amount of capacity, because many of these tenders will come with very stringent conditions, stringent payment terms, okay? Documentary payment terms, and so forth. So therefore, obviously, even if we get qualified, it is not necessary that we'll participate in every bid. We will evaluate the option, what will be the best option for us to book our entire capacity. So if that is that, finds a place, obviously we'll participate.
Got it, sir. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, I would request all the participants to restrict questions to just one question per participant. The next question is from the line of Vikash Mukundan from Freelance Consulting. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Fantastic number, sir, and thanks for this opportunity to talk about it. Can you hear me?
Yeah, yeah, we can hear you. Go ahead, please.
This question is, this question is for Mr. Mody. Sir, I saw your interview on NDTV Profit on January fourth, when you mentioned that your order book as of that day was a shy of 2 gigawatts. But I see in today's presentation, end of December, your order book is about 2,390 megawatts. So does it mean between the 4 days, implementation or rather deliveries of 2,390 megawatts?
So, sir, yeah, that would have been, you know, because of the RRs numbers that we would not have made public at that point in time, you know, the 170 megawatts. So, you know, the differential would be on account of that, broadly.
Okay. Okay, so... And, if you can just tell me what is the difference between installation and delivery?
So there are two things we need to look at, you know, which we track, and we also disclose that in our investor presentation slides. So one is the RR, which is, you know, the revenue recognition, which means that the full turbine dispatched from our factory premises based on which, we book the revenue for a particular turbine. So, you know, that for the nine months period, we've done about 437 MW in this financial year. The other is parameter is what we monitor is the commissioning of the turbines. So, like, that is an all-India number is about 2.1 GW that has been commissioned in nine months ending December 2023.
Out of the 2.1 gigawatts, Suzlon share has been about 611 megawatts in the commissioning numbers. Commissioning has to be clearly differentiated from the delivery numbers or the revenue recognition numbers that we report.
This commissioning is Suzlon turbines only or could be other company turbines as well?
It is, no. What we track is only Suzlon supplies. The 6161 we talked about, our turbines, either we directly commission, or we supervise the commissioning where it's an equipment supply. These are our turbines.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we would take that as the last question for today. On behalf of JM Financial, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.
Thank you. Thank you.