Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Tech Mahindra Limited Q2 FY 2022 Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. C.P. Gurnani, MD and CEO for Tech Mahindra. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Hi. Thank you. Good evening and good morning. Welcome to Tech Mahindra quarter two FY 2022 results. Thank you all for joining us today. Thank you all for being with us through these few quarters, which for many of us on a personal front, has been a challenging quarter. On a business side, it's been an exciting quarter. Your company's mantra for passion and purpose to drive sustainable, profitable growth, I think we have been able to now deliver consistently for several quarters now. I know my team of 141,000 people, 141,000 associates are very happy to report highest sequential growth in the past decade. We have remained committed on our margins. We have also seen that your company's investments on 5G-driven technologies, your company's commitment to customer experience management is showing results not only in CME, but in all the key growth verticals, BFSI, HLS, Hi-Tech .
The impact is across the geographies and across various verticals. As you know that we believe that the technology spend cuts across customers in various segments. The technology spend is also fueled that the digital transformation wave is almost a necessity and is doing a multi-year growth curve right now. Our quarterly performance reflects some of the efforts your company has put in. We are reporting a revenue of INR 1,472 million. At constant currency, it's a 7.2%. For telecom, it is 7.7%. For enterprise business, it is 7%. The deal momentum continues. We are reporting a deal wins of about INR 750 million, and we believe that the trajectory of similar deal wins can be continued. High tech sector has grown reasonably well, and I think will continue to grow. HLS and BFSI are leading the growth for the enterprise segment.
Our EBIT margins have remained flat despite of the supply side pressures. We did announce an acquisition of Lodestone, which helps us in scaling some of the OPD and digital product engineering business. The board has also authorized a special dividend of INR 15 per share. As we had discussed our capital allocation policy in detail, this only shows that we remain committed to return excess cash to the shareholders while we have continued to invest. We have continued to invest in acquisitions which help us build capabilities. Overall, I can only say is that, happy to see growth across all the geos. Happy to see growth being led by competencies. Growth which reflects our confidence that we have hired 15,000 associates so that we have invested in talent for future growth also.
Overall, thanks to the vaccination drive, we are seeing increasing number of people coming to office. Personally, we have not put any, what I would say, any legislation as yet of people trying to work from office. I think most people want to come to work. We only request them that for safety of others, they should be double vaccinated. In general, we are seeing hybrid working evolving on its own. My management team would be meeting all of you on 10th of November, is when we do an informal dinner in Pune, and 11th is when we have a meet the management, hear directly from the management, showcase some of the presentations and demos. I look forward to meet you all in person or virtually again on 10th and 11th November. I'm happy that my management team has joined today's session.
To take you through the numbers, I'm going to request our CFO, Milind, to take over the proceedings from now. Welcome, Milind.
Thank you, C. P. Good evening to everyone or good morning, depending on the time zone. Let me cover the company financials in bit more details. Our revenues for the second quarter were INR 1,472.6 million, as against INR 1,383.6 million in the quarter one, which is a sequential growth of 6.4%. We had a currency headwind of 80 basis point. On a constant currency, we had a 7.2% growth. As C. P. said, this is the highest sequential growth in the last decade. Both CME as well as enterprise verticals have grown quite well. CME vertical grew by 6.7%, while enterprise vertical grew by 6.3%. Within the enterprise vertical, technology, BFSI, and HLS showed a very healthy growth. We had another quarter of strong deal wins, and we reported a TCV of INR 750 million. Again, what is satisfying is broad-based across the verticals.
On operational front, our EBITDA for the quarter was about INR 270 million, a growth of 6.1% quarter-on-quarter. Our EBIT margins were flat at 15.2%. The tailwinds came in terms of operating leverage as a result of growth. They were offset by lower utilization because as we recruited about 15,000 people in the quarter, and utilization dropped by about 1%. Higher subcon cost, as we are not able to depute many of our people abroad due to travel restrictions. Subcon costs tend to be higher than the cost of our associates. Moving below EBIT line, our other income was similar as last quarter at about INR 38 million. The tax rate for the quarter was high at 29.4% due to one-off tax charges in one of our subsidiaries. This is as against 24% in the last quarter.
I mean, better way to look at it in the first half tax rate, it stood at about 26.7%, and we expect our normalized tax rate to be in the range of about 26%. Due to this one-off tax charge in the quarter, the net profit margin was 12.3%, as against a decline of about 100 basis points over quarter one. We had a healthy quarter in terms of free cash flow. Our free cash flow for the quarter was about INR 188 million, about 104% of our PAT for the quarter. Our DSO days were down from 93 to 92 despite acceleration in the sales. We continue to follow our rule-based hedging policy. The total hedge book as on 30th September was about INR 2,392 million as against INR 2,221 million in Q1.
Based on hedge accounting treatment, a gain of $21.2 million, last quarter it was about $7.5 million, has been taken to P&L, and a gain of $61.6 million has been taken to reserves. Last quarter, that was lower at about $23.1 million. This gain increase in hedge gain is because of the depreciation of euro and sterling against the USD. USD-INR have remained almost the same level in the quarter. We had a cash and cash equivalent of about INR 1,626 million. In line with our capital allocation policy, board has announced a special dividend of INR 15 per share. The record date for the interim dividend is 5th of November.
Overall, good set of numbers. We look to maintain our growth momentum and the margins as we enter the second half of the year. With these remarks, I now open the floor for questions. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Mukul Garg from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Thanks. Two questions from my side, one on revenue and one on employee addition. On the revenue side, what was your performance versus expectations this quarter? Especially in the communication vertical, what led to such a strong growth? Should we expect this to continue? What portion of it was contributed by the large deal wins which we had in Q4? On the employee side, exceptional employee additions this quarter from your side, towards 15,000. Your utilization continues to remain almost at all-time high levels ex of trainees. Was there a meaningful impact on the net number from end of quarter additions or trainees and would this have any impact on your cost in the third quarter?
Thanks, Mukul. This is Rohit. Thanks for the question. Maybe I'll first talk about the headcount additions and then talk about revenue, and then I'll pass it on to Manish to talk a little bit more on costs. Just on the headcount side, as you quoted, we've added close to 15,000 people. If you look at the split, it's equally split between BPS and IT. IT has grown approximately 7,000 people. The additions have kind of ramped up through the quarter, it's not a quarter-ending phenomenon. It's been through the quarter increase. If you look at the utilization, we're down 100 basis points versus last quarter. That's on account of that Milind already quoted. We continue to monitor this very closely.
We have our system processes that we've established in terms of operational efficiency, how we continue to get people, train them, and make them billable from a project requirement standpoint. As you kind of correlate that last quarter, the previous quarter, all of this is related in that way, right? We continue to see and fulfill that demand through these additions, and that's the momentum from a pipeline perspective that we're seeing as we move forward. In BPS side, typically the next quarter is a seasonal quarter for us. It's a ramp-up. That's the reason you see an increase there as well. That's on the headcount. If you look at revenue, on the comms side, there are a few factors driving growth.
We've got 5G, which we articulated last time, which is becoming relevant for us, and we've invested in that as you know, being a strong player in that field for a while. It's very important for us, and we continue to see results coming out of it. Similarly, the other side of the growth in comms is also coming from legacy to digital modernization. Right? Those are factors that are helping us. From a large deal contribution perspective, you're right. We continue to see that growth momentum. We had $1 billion, $800 million, and then $750 million for the last three quarters as flow. Comms was a significant contributor on all of that where the deals are ramping up, and you see the growth coming through those as well.
I'll let Manish also talk a little bit more specific on comms to respond to you, Mukul.
Thank you, Rohit, and Mukul, thank you for your question. I guess there's only one thing that I can add to what Rohit said. two things. one, like he pointed out, the growth is pretty secular in terms of the growth levers that we had always been pressing, whether it is 5G, whether it is modernization or large deals or account development. They all seem to be working quite fine as we speak. Hence, the question to your broader question that do we expect the growth momentum to continue? We do expect it to continue. We expect a lot more focus that we will continue to bring in digital transformation, in helping service providers and others in their 5G journeys, both at a network level as well as at process and systems.
We will continue to be on the forefront of helping our clients transform their legacy, all the traditional systems. That also continues to remain a pretty strong focus area for us. Yeah, I guess that's between what Rohit said and the two things I added, I hope it answers your question, Mukul.
No, that was satisfactory enough. Thank you both. Thank you both for answering the question.
From the line of Gaurav Rateria from Morgan Stanley, please go ahead.
Hi. Congratulations on spectacular performance. Two questions. The first question is about, if you can provide some color on the kind of deal activity which you had won during the quarter. Is it a few very large deals that contributed to this, or there's a large number of smaller deals? Similarly, within the pipeline, if you can provide some color of what kind of deals are there, and what proportion of the overall deals are 5G related, any color on the kind of pipeline?
Sure. From a deal win perspective, it's quite broad-based actually. It's quite spread out in terms of geography, in terms of the segment, and competency. It's quite spread. There's no one call-out that I can really make that is significant from a value perspective, right? When you look at the type of the wins that we've had, maybe I'll give you some flavor of the areas that we kind of working with the customer. One of the examples is that we've won a multiyear strategic deal with a Fortune 500 company in transforming their global applications from digital, which was legacy. That's one example that I spoke earlier as well. We're also working with one of the largest electricity distribution utility company to implementing their large customer information system. That's another area that we're working on.
We're working with a large automotive OEM for engineering services for their vehicle modernization, data collection, data center, et cetera. We are working with one of the largest railroad companies in North America providing mobility managed services. It's kind of quite broad-based if you really look at it and contribution is from everybody, so it just helps us feel better about the momentum, right? When you look at the pipeline as we move forward, we continue to see the buildup of the pipeline in the same fashion that we've seen in the last 2, 3 quarters. We've given adequate focus from a frontline perspective on building the pipeline, qualifying it, and the right support team helping with the client partners with the customer-facing team to help them position the technology in front of the customers.
Specifically to 5G, I would say quarter-over-quarter, continuously seeing more and more pipeline being added by the team. More pipeline getting converted into TCV wins and that adding to our increased contribution revenue as well. As Manish had articulated earlier also, 5G contribution is becoming important for us as we see more activity and returns to the investment that we've done in this space. Anything that, Manish, you would like to add on the pipeline details around 5G?
No, I think the only thing I would say is to continue the rhythm and the momentum as we had described the last quarter. 5G is going to be a dominant part of both our wins and engagements as well as our funnel and pipeline. That is a positive sign. We have been consistent about this call for a few years now that our investments that we've been making in the ecosystem, on the network, and within the telecom service provider infrastructure and systems have continued to reap good benefits for us. I can assure all of you that your company will continue to remain more invested in this tailwind than ever before as we go forward.
Thank you. My second-last question is around the margins. If you could lay out some of the puts and takes, the headwinds, the tailwinds as far as the second half is concerned. How should one think about margin given the challenge around rising attrition, which potentially can further increase in the coming quarters? Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you. From a margin perspective, while we are at constant quarter-over-quarter, Milind has articulated there were operating leverage, which is favorable for us, which is the growth that we're seeing adding to the margin. With added headcount, we're seeing a lower utilization as well as the higher subcon cost due to restrictions on travel, and visa requirements, et cetera. Those are the current phenomena, and obviously the supply side challenges have increased. Cost is adding to that pressure. When we look at our strategy around hiring from campuses, doing more fresher intake, help training them, getting them to the projects, ready to be deployed, I think that's helping us to mitigate some of this pressure, and we'll continue to take that action as we move forward.
That's a kind of way we're looking at the margin from a positive and negative standpoint. As we think about second half, I would say some of the travel might come back as some of the economies open up, but still not significant. While our subcon cost, which is at very elevated levels right now has a potential to be replaced by full-time employees. That's kind of offsetting action that we see. The operating margin of the deal, the momentum from a pipeline perspective continues to be strong. If you look at while I can't give guidance through second half as per our policy, but at the beginning of the year, we'd stated that we'll have double-digit organic growth and we'll deliver 15% EBIT positive of that.
I think we'll continue to stick on that view from a margin standpoint, as we continue to see a growth environment. I think from an attrition standpoint, quarter-over-quarter, good part is that it's stabilized for us while we continue to monitor and take corrective actions with our CPO, Chief People Officer and the team. I think that's a positive sign that it's stabilized for us. That's the way we look at it.
Just to add a question. Do we foresee any further levers from improvement in the subsidiary or portfolio company margin or bulk of it has already played out?
It's in the progressive stage right now. I think some of the companies have gone through the transformation of the centralization, as we call it. Some are in their journeys towards it, so it's still work in motion. It'll continue in terms of how we move forward to see that benefit.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sandeep Shah from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Congrats on good execution. Just on the communication side, Manish, wanted to understand that what we are hearing from large caps and the mid caps is the large transformational deals. Clients are in a matter of urgency instead of spending time into process of articulating two to four years deal, we are breaking down into smaller deals and awarding fast. Is it the same trend are you witnessing in the communication for you to say the growth momentum may continue?
Manish, you want to take that?
Specifically-
Yeah. Sandeep, I got it. Can you hear me?
Yeah.
Excellent. Sandeep, thank you for that question. Yes, that indeed is one of the trends that we are seeing as far as transformation is concerned. The way we like to characterize it as these are large transformations. The speed is of essence. There is a level of urgency in modernizing the four big pillars that we have been calling out very clearly as areas of transformation for our customers. One is from an infra compute standpoint, cloud. From a customer engagement standpoint, the overall customer experience journey, and digitizing that in terms of sales and commerce and service on both. Network modernization, which is largely driven by, again, cloud and 5G. Of course, from an engineering standpoint or from a software transformation standpoint. That also is another big lever.
What's going on as far as digital transformation is that the clients have put together the North Star aspiration of where they want to be. They recognize that you can't just have one single large project that defines that because things evolve every single day. That's the new mantra as far as trying to emulate the web-scale development models. Hence, what appears to be smaller deals are actually larger programs which are broken down into agile projects. We are indeed as well seeing a lot of that trend as we speak right now.
Okay. Helpful. Manish, just as a follow-up. I think growth in that communication on a YOY basis has come back strongly. With 5G now becomes a clear tailwind on the demand, you believe at least a double-digit growth in the foreseeable future over next 2 to 3 years, quite achievable going forward?
We will continue to remain focused on that. Like I said earlier, our funnel continues to look strong. Our engagements across these 4 transformation pillars is good. The urgency that the clients are showing towards transforming themselves also remain very positive. All in all, the indications are pretty good.
Okay. Last question, Rohit. Just on margin follow-up. Generally, Q3, Q4, directionally, we have more tailwinds than the headwinds because some of the Comviva license sales also comes as a tailwind to the margin. This time also it could be true or you believe supply side pressures will negate the tailwinds and margin at best can be maintained as a whole? Everybody else is showing a quantum jump in the offshoring, while our offshore levels is one of the industry lower. Why we are not forcing this as a big margin lever going forward?
Yeah. Sandeep, I think maybe on offshoring first. We've been articulating, if you look at the trend from last probably five, six quarters, we've improved our offshoring to almost 150 to 300 basis points. There's been a significant improvement on this metric as we've articulated and delivered on it. We'll continue to drive this metric as we move forward. Right now, obviously, from a demand standpoint, it's about ramping up of new deals ensuring that we get them on the right platform from a start perspective. It's a ramp-up phase that's going on, but this metric is an important one, and we'll continue to track that in long-term, right? That's a lever for us. When you specifically talk about the quarter, I think, obviously, I won't guide it, but I can talk about tailwinds and headwinds.
As you rightly pointed out, that's a seasonality that we see typically with the Comviva business, though that seasonality is reducing slowly for us in terms of quarterly increases. That's going to be a factor. To your point, the supply side pressures do continue. We continue to see that as we move forward. Similarly, onshore demand, the restriction from a travel and a visa standpoint is also not yet over. I think all of that factors continue to play in. All in all, these are the positives and negatives that we see from a margin standpoint as we move forward. We'll continue to drive our portfolio, kind of centralization playbook that we've laid out earlier in the year.
We'll continue to drive operational efficiency and operating leverage which is what you've seen in the last two quarters as we see deal wins, as we see the pipeline grow. That's an area that we see in the positive direction as well.
Okay. Thanks all the best.
Thanks, Sandeep Shah.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nitin Padmanabhan from Investec. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, good evening. Thanks for taking my question. I had a couple. The first is on the people front. How many freshers have we sort of hired so far, and what's the plan there? Two, in terms of margins, I think this was two years ago, we had two large deals. I think that was AT&T and Prudential. At that time, we actually saw because of transition costs, margins actually come off for that period. Do you think the current environment, the kind of deals that are being broken down into smaller deals, this is more sort of amenable to better margins? That was the second one. Third, the business doesn't seem to be showing an operating leverage on SG&A this quarter. It's actually almost grown similar to revenue or slightly higher.
Just wondering why that is, considering that we have a good 6% plus growth. Is there any one-off in there that could sort of come off going forward? Those were the three. Thank you.
Yeah. Maybe, Harsh, why don't you take the fresher related and the headcount addition question, and I'll take the margins one after you, Harsh.
Yeah. Thanks, Rohit. Nitin, thank you for asking that question. I think it's a great question. As we all see the retention being a clear challenge for most companies in IT in the industry, I think we've really sort of focused well on the build and buy strategy. Like you heard Rohit say earlier, we are investing heavily in building new skills, and therefore our fresher entry strategies is very clear. We have almost doubled the intake of freshers, and that has significantly impacted our availability of talent. Going forward, we'll continue the same strategy, and we are, as I said, heavily investing in upskilling these freshers so that availability of talent is always there.
Yeah. Just on the margin side, from a first of all probably respond on the SG&A part. If you look at it, we're also investing from a future and a growth perspective on sales and clients, partners roles. I think that continue to be an important investment for us as we look forward, right? That's an area that we've invested in, made more kind of capability build, if you will. That's an area that we'll continue to drive. I think beyond that, there's plus and minus across the various line items, but nothing significant to call out from a trend perspective. Those are the main areas that we continue to invest on. Sorry.
Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.
Do you have one more question? Sorry.
Yeah. The other question was, I was referring to maybe two years ago when we had AT&T and Prudential, and there were sort of transition costs at that time, and margins were under pressure. The question is: Do you see the current environment where you have large programs being broken down to smaller deals, is this more amenable for margins, and are you seeing sort of pricing increases from customers considering the current environment, and how broad-based is that?
I think, obviously, from a deal ramp-up perspective, we still have transition costs. That is a headwind as you start the deal going up. If you think about from a pattern perspective, that gets into the baseline, right? We've had INR 1 billion of deal wins announced in Q4 and INR 800 million and then INR 750 million. As we keep on doing that across the spectrum, that transition becomes a part of the run rate. Unless we see a huge kicker for a big deal, that chapter will play out again. As I'd articulated at the beginning of the year also, when we look at the years, there might be quarterly fluctuations that we will see because of this phenomenon, which till now hasn't really surfaced from the point of view of seeing it too much of an upward or a downward trend.
I think from a trend perspective, the way to look at it is more from the full year perspective, and that, I think, won't make a difference as we move forward.
Sure. That's helpful. Just one last follow-up is, I think most companies are hiring roughly 12%-18% of their prior year headcount as freshers. Do you think we fall in that range?
Yeah. Harsh, would you want to respond specifically on that?
Yeah. As I said, Nitin, what I've specifically outlined is that we've actually doubled the intake. Obviously it's very clear for you to see, but there is a huge focus on hiring of freshers and upskilling them. Really from the last few years, we are almost going 2X.
Sure. Thanks. That is helpful. Thanks.
Thank you. A reminder to the participants, if you wish to ask a question, please press star then one on your touchtone telephone. The next question is from the line of Ruchi Burde from BOB Capital . Please go ahead.
Thanks for the approach. My question is for Manish. I'm on call.
I'm sorry to interrupt, may I please request you to speak a bit louder, as your audio is not very audible.
Is it better?
Yes, ma'am. Thank you.
Yeah. Manish, can you help us understand how Tech Mahindra's capability has changed in comms vertical, if you especially compare with the previous cycle when 4G upgrade was a theme? Has that changed the opportunity size or the tech spend that Tech Mahindra can capture? That's my first question. I have a follow-up.
Sure, Ruchi. Thank you so much. There are two things that have changed. The opportunity itself has changed in the industry. What people did in the 4G cycle, and it's not exactly how it is happening in the 5G. It's a bit more comprehensive as a transformation. 10 to 15 years have passed since people started investing in 4G. You do need a lot of changes in terms of how the consumers and customers are buying and getting their experiences from their service providers. All of that has indeed changed the areas where the transformation projects are happening, number one. Number two, hence that also has compelled us over the last few years to invest and change our capabilities. Broadly speaking, yes, it is in the realm of infra and software.
One specific thing, if I may add, that has changed for us, as against the 4G cycle, is the network capability. Towards the fag end of the 4G growth cycle, we had started building capabilities in the radio deployment and construction activity. As you know that in a very focused fashion over the last two, three years, we have decided to de-focus from that area. What we've also done over the last three to four years is we have actually dialed back up our investments in the digital part of the network. Whether it is software-based network, whether it is now what we call as network on cloud, which includes core, whether it is transforming the legacy OSS into a more modern orchestration-type model.
It's a longer list, and we will definitely be sharing some of these details when we all meet on 10th and 11th of November at a technology level. Yes, to answer your question, the capabilities indeed are different at network as well as at underlying process and system transformation. There's another thing that I may want to point out is the difference between our 4G engagements at a broad level versus now is we used a lot more of the TechM IP and platforms as part of our solutions. That also makes a very compelling argument in terms of how we collaborate with these other ecosystem players, which is not just based on people, but also based on people's software and IP. That has significantly improved on the BSS side and the OSS side and on the network cloud transformation, as we call it.
I guess that's the second point I may want to highlight. Lastly, has that increased the target market for us? The target market for us in terms of the areas that we now play has indeed expanded for us. I've been saying this for some quarters, that the cost of deploying a 5G network is not just theoretically but also practically substantially cheaper than the cost of deploying and putting together a 4G network in the past, and hence you don't see a material change. There is a change in the CapEx spend of telcos, but you won't see a big, substantial material change. If it's not a new dollar, it is recycling of that dollar. Your company now is in a much better position to take advantage of those opportunities because of the investments that we have made in the past.
I hope that answers your question, Ruchi.
Yes, that's quite helpful. My follow-up is, now we have been hearing from you more upbeat comments regarding 5G. In that light, have you seen any change in terms of competitive landscape, be it the intensity with which the competitors are bidding or the new entrants in the market, new names that you may come across? Any comments on that would be helpful.
Ruchi, I think the answer is, there has never been dearth of intensity in the market from a competition standpoint. There are only as many telcos that you can go to. Our advantage has always been, and we try and protect that advantage to our best ability, which is our access rights that we have. Across the world, the number of service providers that we work with, and we have had long relationships with, continue to remain something that we fortify all the time and we defend. However, given that the transformation has got different views and different colors, competition also does come from different parts of the industry. Sometimes there are niche players, sometimes there are traditional players who relate more like us, and sometimes there are tech companies. Yes, it's a bit more complicated as a competitive scenario.
Nevertheless, we feel pretty strong in terms of the positioning that we have carved for ourselves in this change to landscape.
Thank you, Manish. All the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vibhor Singhal from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. Thanks for taking my question, congratulations on the great set of numbers. Sir, my question was basically on our medium to slightly longer term growth scenario. The hiring that we have done is exceptionally strong. I think we've never seen this kind of an hiring in Tech M before, 1,600 net hiring in this quarter, which definitely gives us the idea that the company is looking at a very strong growth demand environment. This year, of course, as we have guided to a double-digit growth, we know that this year, of course, the industry growth could actually be in higher teens. We might be maybe falling a bit short of the industry average growth rate.
Given the kind of hiring that we have done in this quarter and the quarter before that as well, do we see, let's say, a roadmap or a track on which we would like to traverse and say that, okay, maybe 2 years down the line, 3 years down the line, we could basically match the industry growth rate in terms of our own capabilities and the demand that we see out there in the market?
Yeah. I think what we'd said at the beginning of the year was double-digit organic growth, right? I think when you look at Q1 to Q2 together, first half comparative, we should right now be in the range of north of mid-teens. In terms of first half, year-on-year growth. If you look at second half and how we look at the pipeline and the various other factors moving forward, from what we said in the beginning, that's something that is clearly demonstrated in terms of the first half numbers itself. Obviously, I can't give guidance specifically on the second half because we don't do that. If you look at the other trends in terms of deal wins, we've announced INR 750 of deal wins, which I mentioned is quite broad-based.
We continue to look at talent base that Harsh already articulated, of going to the campuses, and we've doubled that up from last year to this year in terms of our intake. I think from a momentum perspective and what we're seeing, it's a positive trend for us. We continue to look at industry-leading growth for this year. As we move forward, we continue to work on our internal processes and operational excellence parameter, where we have lot of room, which we've articulated earlier as well on offshoring, and few other factors that we can do better on to continue to give that headroom as we move forward.
I think, what I'd say is, based on all these trends, the momentum is going to continue, and obviously some quarters, the ramp-up will be more versus the other based on the way deals shape up, but the trend is going to be in that direction.
Got it. Just a related question on the hiring, if I may just raise one more question. From the hiring front, basically, I think after a long period of time, we have seen a good bench being built up. Generally, our utilization, including and excluding training, tend to be almost at similar levels, basically denoting that there is a limited bench that we can maintain. Given that this time, of course, yeah, the both utilization numbers are quite different. Of course, as you mentioned, that we doubled our fresher hiring, which would take some time to basically build up. Do you believe these subcon expenses could remain in the same range as they are right now for maybe one or two more quarters, and it's only towards, let's say, the beginning of the next year that we might see these tapering off?
Do you see this hiring basically would replace the large part of the subcon almost immediately or in very near future?
Yeah. We continue to monitor that trend, and I think. While we continue to monitor and look at opportunities of substitution fresh placement, given where we are and given the growth environment, we see this trend or these percentages that you're currently seeing will continue for a bit, right. As we look at getting deeper in terms of substitution replacement, we will look at opportunities that work for us to get the margin leveraged, right. We have been continuously monitoring it, but if you look at the macro, you're asking from a trend perspective, I think it'll continue for some time till it goes back to the levels that we've seen in the past. That will be a trend that we'll continue to monitor, work on and drive as and when the restrictions from travel, visa and other aspects from a hiring perspective continue to ease down for us.
Got it. Okay. Thank you so much. Thanks for taking that question, and wish you all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello. Is my line audible?
Yes, sir.
Rahul, go ahead. We can hear you.
Yes. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. I have a similar question, which one of the earlier participants asked, but a small twist to that. You said your key edge in the 5G kind of an opportunity is the incumbent advantage that we have, and there's a diversity of the peers that you meet there. What I want to essentially understand is that since this investment cycle by telcos in 5G has been far more delayed than the earlier anticipation, can you say that the competitive intensity has thus changed very significantly? Does the total price as well as volume side of opportunities, both are getting hampered to some extent, and this incumbent advantage beyond that, if you can identify any other edge in this space.
Yeah. Manish, do you want to take that?
Sure. Rahul, I think I had said the incumbency as our platform and the license to play because we get called into conversations both proactively and otherwise. That's not necessarily the only edge. What I also called out very clearly is that 5G is a more comprehensive and holistic transformation. It is not a one-trick pony of dialing a button on, say, putting together a new network. It also requires, and there are other projects that get spawned in the digital space, in the back-office space, and in the front-end customer experience side. That is number two. By that, what I mean is, if you recall, we have always said that Tech M will continue to stay focused on the multi-pillar strategy within a service provider.
That means we will work with every CXO of a service provider, because when a CEO calls for a 5G expansion, the onus is on different parts of the organization to also come to the party. We are independently playing with each of these different parties within a service provider. It's been a strength for us and will continue to remain a focus for us. That's the second part of the edge that I had called out. The third is our solutions that we have built this time around, whether it is in helping people adopt the telco cloud, both in terms of adoption and modernization. Whether it is in terms of helping people realize and integrate their 5G network both within the lab and otherwise. Number two.
Number three, the IPs that we have put together in helping people transform their monetization capabilities on both the consumer and the enterprise side. That list goes on in terms of the IP and the solutions that we have built specifically. That also continues to pay off. The fact that we are present in each of these theaters, we have the star cast to perform the transformation duties, and which is really our solutions. Last but not the least, that we have assembled a team that understands the lever that we need to press in helping our service provider customers realize the benefits of this transformation much faster. I think we've continuously been very steadfast on that investment and will continue to remain focused there as well. I hope that answers your question.
Just using your own analogy of theater, when you see this to be a global launch or release, whatever you want to call it.
Hello?
As in, when you see the real wave. Of course, this has been asked several number of times. When we see the real 5G opportunity, both within the vertical as well as 5G as an horizontal, will kind of play out big way for us or maybe as an industry.
Yes. Actually, sorry, I missed that part of the question. Yeah, you're right. We have said 5G for us are playing at three parts. 5G for service providers, which has got different nuances, and I already elaborated on those. Second is 5G for ecosystem, which is where we are helping with R&D, product development, and other realization services around 5G for our larger ecosystem. That's already playing out, not just in the telco, but in the enterprise space as well. It's already built into some of the growth that we are seeing there. The third element of growth that we will see, which probably is going to follow the other two, which will be the 5G as a horizontal across our enterprise customers.
Something that we work very closely with Jagdish and his team in deriving the value from a connectivity plus plus as we build the next-gen solutions for digital transformations for our enterprise.
Yeah, right. Just one more question, if I may. I think there was an earlier question as well on this element, is that the deals from an absolute point of view, deal TCV, is a bit lower than some of the recent reporting by us. Of course, we understand these things will be lumpy as well as there was a comment that their deals are getting shorter in general. Given the kind of a trend we have right now in the industry, what is the real annual benchmark to kind of relevant for us, if you look at from a 12-month forward basis that this is the base number or this is the range which would be an ideal for a double-digit kind of a growth aspiration we want to maintain from next 1-3 year perspective.
I think from a trend, you're asking more overall to the company or is it specifically in 5G?
No, overall, please.
From an overall perspective, as I'd mentioned, if you look at the last two quarters trend, we're in the range average at around INR 800 odd million. Add together we did INR 1,550, which is a significant run-up to our previous average that you've been seeing, which is around INR 450-500. Hence it's almost a 50% jump to that number. As we look at, I would say pipeline, the deal flows, the closures, and as you rightly mentioned, a lumpiness exists in terms of closing of contracts, et cetera. There might be some up and down, though these two quarters are pretty close to each other. I think from a trend perspective, I would say annualized basis versus if you look at the trend of the number we had previously, we should see a similar increase on a baseline perspective from an annual basis.
I think that's the way looking at a new baseline in our mindset.
When you're saying that, are you trying to refer that a 20%, let's say, growth on a TTM basis normalized for some very big deal is the number one should watch out for, or the absolute $2.5 billion-$3 billion kind of a 4-quarter bucket is what you are referring to?
Yeah, I think the second, the latter one. That's the better way to look at it right now.
On an INR 6 billion kind of a current run rate, if we do $2.5 billion-$3 billion, which is like 40%-50% of the current size, is what should be the way to look at it.
Yeah, the way you look at our deal wins is we're doing only incremental deal win announcement, right? This is greater than INR 5 million incremental, and some of the way peers announce is different. As a percentage of revenue, maybe that's not the correlation that you can drive from a book-to-bill perspective, right?
Yeah.
If you just look at our perspective, while in the three versus whatever the number you correlate to as annualize revenue, it'll be a different percentage. There's no apple-to-apple comparison that you would find, right? This is purely incremental, more than INR 5 million, which is what we're putting, and you have to look at a trend from a quarter-over-quarter growth perspective as we move forward.
Right. Of course, from the leaking revenue as well as sub INR 5 million adjusted to that, this is what one should look at it.
Yeah, that is right.
Fair enough. Thank you. Thanks for the call.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Rohit Anand for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. Thanks everybody for joining our call today. I'd like to, first of all, wish everybody a very happy and a safe Diwali to you and your families. Also repeat what C.P. mentioned, look forward for all of you to join us for our Investor Analyst Meet on the 11th of November, either physically or virtually. Look forward to that participation so that we can share more of the Tech M growth story with all of you. That's another event that is coming forward from the company standpoint. With that, thanks again, and thanks for your continued support.
Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thank you so much.
Thank you. On behalf of Tech Mahindra Limited, we conclude today's conference. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.