Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Titagarh Rail Systems Limited Q3 and 9-month FY25 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Prachi Ambre from Orient Capital. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.
Thank you, Yusuf. On behalf of Titagarh Rail Systems Limited, I extend a very warm welcome to all the participants on Q3 and 9-month FY25 financial results discussion call. Today on the call, we have Mr. Umesh Chowdhary, Vice Chairman and Managing Director. Mr. Saurav Singhania, Chief Financial Officer. Before we begin the call, I would like to give a short disclaimer. This call may contain some of the forward-looking statements, which are completely based upon our beliefs, opinions, and expectations as of today. These uncertainties are not a guarantee of our future performance and involve unforeseen risks and uncertainties. With this, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Umesh Sir for his opening remarks. Over to you, sir. Thank you.
Good afternoon, Prachi. Thank you very much. Very good afternoon, everybody, and thank you for joining the conference call of Q3. The results for the quarter have already been shared, and I would say that the performance has been pretty much as expected in line, except for the temporary problem that we had on account of non-availability of wheelsets, which kind of restricted. My apologies, the line got disconnected. I was mentioning that the quarter was pretty much in expected lines, except for the problem that we had with the Railway Wheel Factory on account of non-availability of wheelsets. As you understand, we had some breakdown, and mainly for the RSP, for the railway orders, we had to take our wheelsets from the Railway Board only or from the Railway Wheel Factory only.
And on account of that, the production got muted, particularly on the first month of the quarter, which was in September, sorry, in October. November was a slight recovery, and December was a better recovery. The problem is not 100% solved with RWF, but it's gradually getting resolved. Recognizing this, the railways have to, or more so, given additional time for delivery of the wagons and have also allowed us to import wheels or use imported wheels on a replacement basis. So the wheels that we are importing for the private sector wagons can be used in production of the railway wagons, and they would be replenished when the railway wagon wheels are supplied by the railway factory. There would be no financial implications or costs on this account, except for some maybe inventory holding costs, which will be very minuscule.
On the other side, in the passenger side, I'm happy to share that we rolled out our first stainless steel coach for Bangalore Metro. It was rolled out in the virtual presence of the Honorable Minister of Housing and Urban Affairs, Mr. Manohar Lal Khattar, who also took a virtual tour of the new stainless steel manufacturing coach manufacturing line and was very appreciated, along with the Secretary of MoHUA, who is also the executive chairman of all the metro corporations in the country. For the propulsion, the traction motor production picked up, and for the first time in Q3, that's the 100 traction motor mark, which is in itself a milestone. Now, the target would be to get to a production of 150 traction motors, which we expect that we'll be able to achieve by June or July of 2025.
The company has also announced two new business verticals, and we believe that while the freight wagon business is something which helped the company to grow to an extent from where it was in the last four or five years, the passenger business, the metro and the Vande Bharat, will continue to support the company to go to the next level, after which the growth drivers of the company would be the signaling and safety system, which is a big area of focus from the railways and for the metro and is also synergistic to us, and for the shipbuilding and maritime systems, which we call SMS, which we are already being present in the shipbuilding and naval shipbuilding primarily, but considering the impetus of the Government of India on domestic shipbuilding production, we decided to once again relaunch this venture.
I had mentioned a couple of years ago that we will not be allocating any capital to this for the next year and a half or two years, and that's exactly what we did. We wanted to first stabilize the passenger rail system business, and thereafter, the next two drivers of growth for the company over the next, which will take to the next levels over the next three to five years, would be these two businesses, which are the signaling and safety systems and the shipbuilding and maritime systems. This is an overall overview of the quarter and of how things have progressed. Just a couple of quick updates on maybe on Vande Bharat and the metro pipeline. So on Vande Bharat, as everybody would be aware, there was discussion going on with the railways about the train lines from 16 to 24 coaches.
There were many speculations also in the market about financial terms being changed, etc. I'm happy to share that now formally, the letter has been issued by the railways, and the execution of the project has started in full steam. The first few trains will be taken by the railways on a 16-car configuration as originally planned, and the further trains will be considered to be taken in longer, that is, 24-coach formation, which can be done by the railways exercising the 30% option clause. The railways have also suo motu extended the delivery period for the train, considering the period of uncertainty without any financial implications. On the metro tender pipeline, there are many tenders that are ongoing with the different network authorities where the company has been participating.
We believe that this is a segment that will continue to present greater opportunities, and particularly with our stainless steel metro line being operational now, we feel that we will also have a competitive advantage in the future. So that's all as far as my opening comments are concerned, and I'd be very happy to take any questions at this time.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants in the conference, please restrict your questions to two participants. If you have any follow-up questions, please rejoin the queue. First question is from the line of Balas ubramaniam from Arihant Capital. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Thank you so much for taking my question. That presentation has a lot of detailed information available, and thank you so much. Sir, my first question regarding one of our JV partners, Medha Servo Drives, as I have mentioned, like in Vande Bharat, earlier they come out with 16 coaches per train, but right now it's being changed to 24 coaches per train. Is there any impact in our order book, sir? Is it big for our?
So as I just mentioned in my opening comments, sir, that the railways had told in May 2024 that they would like to modify the contract from a 16-car configuration to a 24-car configuration. And we had represented to the railways that while we are agreeable to do that, this has to be done in terms of the relevant provisions of the contract, and that discussion was ongoing. Now, the railways have finally issued the letter accepting our point of view, wherein they have accepted to take the first few trains on the 16-car configuration itself. And thereafter, when they want to increase to the 24-car configuration, it would be done by way of exercise of the option quantity, which would not reduce our quantity but, in fact, enhance the quantity whenever they decide to exercise the option.
As of today, there is no plus or minus commercial impact to the contract that we have.
Got it, sir. Sir, is there any delay on the designing and execution side because of these changes?
No. The delay has been there because of the period of uncertainty, and as I had mentioned, the railways themselves have acknowledged that this period of uncertainty had nothing to do with the technology provider that is ourselves, and they have suitably readjusted the delivery period for the same. We now expect the first train of Vande Bharat to be rolled out from our factory by March 2026, based on the agreement signed between us and the railways a few days ago.
Okay, sir. My last question regarding the wheelsets. Like you have mentioned, the production has been impacted by the non-availability of wheelsets. However, the company has reported positive territory numbers. Is there a, because of the execution issues, because of government and private order mix, and when the execution will ramp up, sir? Because we almost achieve around 800 and 900 per month, and we have a capacity of 1,000 wagons. Is there any possibility to increase further, maybe next three years' time frame?
As I have already said, that we are targeting to be at 1,000 wagons per month or 3,000 wagons per quarter, and we are already having the capacity to do that, to produce at the rate of 1,000 wagons per month or 3,000 wagons per quarter. In terms of what the competitor has done or not done, I will not be able to comment. I would only say that even in Q3, as per the records which are publicly available from the Ministry of Railways, both private and railway combined, Titagarh is the largest producer of wagons, subject to correction, but the railway figures published by the Railway Board or the Railway Ministry say that we have produced 2,218 wagons in this quarter, whereas the other manufacturers' production is shown as lesser than that.
Got it, sir. I'll come back and check.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Parvez Qazi from Nuvama Group. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good afternoon, and thanks for taking my question, so a couple of questions from my side. First, wouldn't it be great if you could give us some update on the project progress for the Ahmedabad and the Surat Metro project?
Sure. Parvez, the Ahmedabad project will be executed prior to the Surat Metro project. The final stages of the designing are getting completed. We will deliver the first train of Ahmedabad in Q1 of FY26, which is the April-June quarter, and we are well on track to be able to do that. Thereafter, the production of the Ahmedabad will be done at the rate of starting with one train per month and up to two trains per month, followed by continuous execution of Surat. That is how the contract is decided, that we will execute first the Ahmedabad and then follow down to Surat.
So only after we complete the delivery of Ahmedabad Metro will the Surat Metro delivery start? Is that correct?
There may be an overlap also, but I would say that the priority first would be on the Ahmedabad. First few trains of Ahmedabad would be rolled out before the Surat ones because it also has to be synchronized with their infrastructure and signaling, etc. being ready.
Got it. Second, you mentioned that railways have extended the delivery timeline for Vande Bharat, considering the time which has gone away due to Q2. So now, what is the revised delivery timeline for Vande Bharat, and when will it start?
The delivery of the first train, which was scheduled in June 2025, will now be March 2026, so it's an additional nine months. And then the balance trains will follow accordingly in the same manner that it was there in the spring.
Lastly, how has private sector wagon ordering been? We know we recently received a wagon order from the cement majors. How was the overall ordering in Q3, and what is the outlook going ahead?
I would say that the general CapEx cycle was a little subdued in the last few months, but it has again started coming up. We have seen new inquiries come in, and this has not been particular to our sector, but in general, I would say over the last few months. But now things are picking up again, and the testimonial to that is the recent order that we won from Adani Group. There are many other negotiations that are ongoing with different companies, and we will definitely come back and inform the market as soon as something concrete is coming out.
Any thoughts on Indian Railways wagon tendering in FY26, and how soon can we see any tender from the Indian Railways? Thank you.
So we believe that the government has already restated their ambition and their target of staying with the 3 billion tons by 2030, and they are not deterring from that target which they have set for themselves. And in order to achieve that target, we do believe that the railways will have to come up with additional tenders. The current tenders that they have placed, the orders that they have placed, will get executed in the coming financial year FY26. Plus, the railways do have the provision of adding 30% to their quantity. So we believe that somewhere in FY26, maybe in the Q3, Q4 of FY26, the railways should come up with the next bigger tender.
Sure. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sandeep from SKP Securities Limited. Please go ahead.
Hi sir. Thanks for taking my question. Sir, my first question is regarding what is the status on all the joint ventures like plant setup?
Mr. Sandeep, your audio is very low.
Yeah. Sorry. Sir, what is the status on all the joint ventures like plant setup progress, investments done till now, and expected commercialization?
Sorry, I'm not able to understand your question. If you can repeat, please.
Sir, in the joint ventures, what is the plant setup progress in the wheelset business and investments done till now?
Yeah. So the wheelset plant is coming up very well on track. We are moving as per schedule. The contract stated that the deliveries of the first wheels had to be made by, if my memory serves me correct, April 2026, and the project is very well on track to be able to achieve that.
Okay, sir, and in the Sidwal joint venture, what is the expected time we are targeting, both domestically and export?
There is no joint venture on Sidwal. Sidwal is an independent company. We have a strategic alliance with them for new products to be introduced, and that is an ongoing thing as soon as the items are concretized. Of course, apart from the fact that they are also an investor in Titagarh Firema, the Italian associate of the company. So as soon as there are things that are finalized, we will definitely come back to the market.
Okay, sir. And sir, one last question. Can you please provide a ramp-up of metro coaches and expectation in ramp-up of metro coaches in FY26 and FY27, like per cars per month?
So in FY26, we will be able to ramp up our production to close to 20 cars per month. By Q4 of, I would say, end of Q3 or Q4, we will definitely be able to ramp up our coach production to 20 cars per month. As far as FY27 is concerned, it will also depend upon the new order inflow because we have now started participating and focusing on building up the order pipeline. So the capacity that we have created is to go to up to 36 cars per month on metro, but we believe that the sweet spot for us would be about 25 cars per month, and we should be able to achieve that in FY27 once we are able to get additional orders, which we are hopeful to get.
Of course, the Vande Bharat production, which is a separate line, will also start in this week.
That's helpful, sir. Thank you. And I'll be joining the team, sir.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Shrinidhi Karlekar from HSBC. Please proceed.
Yeah. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is related to the new business verticals, particularly in the signaling and safety. Would it be possible to elaborate this opportunity in terms of how are you going to target it in terms of product development, technology consumption, or the technology development part of it?
Sorry, Srinidhi, I lost your question. Can you please repeat? I'm sorry.
Can you hear me now?
Yeah. I can hear you now. Yes, please.
Okay. Sir, my question is related to the signaling and safety business, new vertical you guys are trying. So in that aspect, sir, what I wanted to understand is how one should look at the product development part of it, the technology aspect of it, and the whole product development cycle of it.
Sure. So in the safety and signaling, it is a very wide-spectrum business. We have identified for ourselves three subsegments. One is rail-mounted vehicles for different kinds of safety and track maintenance, I would say, which is also related to safety. One is onboard kind of systems, and the third is more electronic-oriented systems. So we already have an association with one of the largest players in this field for a few products, which is Medha Servo Drives, but we have also now initiated dialogue. We are in different stages of finalization with different technology partners. Some may be just by way of ToTs, some may be consortium bidding, and some might culminate into joint ventures. We are also seriously working on designing or setting up our own development centers.
I'm, in fact, happy to mention, and this I should have mentioned in my opening comments, that our engineering centers for the passenger system now, we have ramped up to more than about 120 people between Bangalore, Hyderabad, and Calcutta, where we have more than 100, I would say approximately 120 people already, which will further be ramped up to 150 people, which makes us kind of quite independent and self-reliant in terms of doing the designing for the trains and for the components of the trains. And the same would be our target for safety and signaling system as well.
Sir, here, in terms of opportunities, is it likely to play out in a year of one or two years, or when should it look like it's a long distance and it could take maybe beyond two years?
So, in terms of, I would say, the way we do new businesses, which is both SMS and SSS, that is safety and signaling systems, and shipbuilding and maritime systems, should be seen is that in the next one year, there are two KPIs. One is the associations or the strategic alliances that are formed for this business, and the second is the number of tenders that we can participate and the number of orders that we can give. I do not expect much of revenue to come in in the coming year on FY26 and Q2, apart from the old orders in the shipbuilding and maritime systems that is continuing. But the two KPIs this year would be, as I said, strategic alliances that are formed and tenders participated, stroke orders won.
The revenue of these two businesses will really start coming in, and the same will continue for FY27 to a great extent, I would say. I would say the first half of '27 should also be the KPIs we should be, and then second half of FY27 and FY28 should be where the revenues will start getting reflected in our cash funds.
Understood. And sir, one related question more on shipbuilding side. Given that you want to revitalize that business, wondering, would it be possible to quantify incremental investments that are needed to target bigger opportunities in this business?
We will come back with these numbers as soon as the business plan is approved by the board. Right now, it is more of a strategic decision. The exact budget and the business plan, including the investments, whether it will be done, and we had announced in the board some time ago whether this will be done by ourselves alone or by way of strategic alliances in the main company or by way of subsidiaries. These are things that are still finalized, and I would say we would come back with the complete business plan over the next few days or few weeks.
Sure. Thank you for answering my questions, and I'll be with you.
Thank you. Thank you. Before we move to the next question, a reminder to the participants, please restrict your questions to two per participants. Next question is from the line of Khush Nahar from Electrum PMS. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. So a couple of questions from my side. So number one, can you elaborate more on the maritime and the shipbuilding segment? What kind of products are we targeting over there? So second, our EBITDA margin for the port was around 10%. For nine months, it was around, I think, 11, 11.4%. So are we still confident on achieving around 13%-15% going ahead?
Sorry, my apologies. I again am losing your voice. It's breaking up. Can you repeat?
Hello. Is it better now?
Yeah. Please go ahead.
Yeah. So my first question was on the maritime and the shipbuilding segment. If you can elaborate more on that in terms of products. Second question was on the EBITDA margins. We have done around 11-11.4% in nine months. So what is your guidance going ahead? Because I think previously we have valued for around 13%-15% in 2026, considering the ramp-up of metro is a bit delayed. And third, so can you guide us on the Capex numbers that we're planning to spend in the next three years?
So as far as the first one is concerned on the shipbuilding and maritime systems, the products are basically the same that we have been doing: specialized vessels for both navy, coast guard, but also for civilian users. We have seen also in the last budget that the sector found a lot of mention by the finance minister in our budget speech. We have been in dialogue with the government, and the government has decided to take this as one of the key trust structures because the percentage of shipbuilding and maritime systems that Indian producers have in terms of the global production market is very, very small, and the government is very keen to make this as a trust sector.
Considering the credentials and the approvals that we already have as uncertain, thanks to the orders that we have executed over the last few years, we are able to qualify for, I would say, many or most of the requirements that are coming outside of navy or the other agencies that are buying ships or maritime systems. In terms of the EBITDA margin, your second question, we have always maintained that in the trade business, the EBITDA margins are likely to be between 11-12%, and the operating leverage, of course, will help us to improve further. In the current quarter, it has been down by a few percent, a few decimals of a percentage because of the operating leverage disadvantage. In terms of the passenger coaches, again, we have always said it's really 10% or thereabouts. Still, we start doing our own propulsion.
Once we are able to integrate the complete number of trains that we produce with our own propulsion, that will be able to increase our EBITDA margins by another four to five basis points. That is likely to happen in, I would say, FY27 to a greater extent, but FY28, I would say, would be the year where we'll be able to completely integrate our propulsion in those. Mr. Nahar, does that answer your question?
Right. So the third question on the CapEx, if you can answer.
Can you please request you to rejoin the queue, sir?
Yeah.
Thank you.
So very quickly on the CapEx, I'm sorry, I forgot to answer that. So the CapEx, which we had announced for the freight and the passenger, remains the same, and that is being implemented now. Most of it has been implemented, and the rest will be completed in FY26, which is primarily for Vande Bharat. We are looking or exploring the possibility of setting up the complete aluminum coach line also because we believe that the government is, again, putting a lot of emphasis on lightweight coaches. So as and when that happens, we will come back to announce about the CapEx of the line for aluminum coaches. Till now, we were doing the CKD of aluminum coaches from TFA and then assembling them in India, but we would like to, for a cost-effective reason, produce them completely in India.
For the SSS and the SMS, which is shipbuilding and maritime and the safety and signaling, we will, as I mentioned a little while ago, as soon as the board has approved, we will announce the CapEx and.
Sure, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Kunal Sheth from B&K Securities. Please proceed.
Yeah. Hi. Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I had just one question. On Vande Bharat, you mentioned that our first coach will go in March 2026. So what is the schedule of deliveries post that?
The schedule that was there originally will remain as it is in the sense that we will shift the first train from June of 2025 to March 2026. Thereafter, the second train was supposed to be delivered after 60 days of the first train, and then the first year, there were supposed to be eight trains, the second year, 12 trains, so on and so forth. The starting date only gets shifted from June 2025 to March 2026, and the balance trains will continue to be delivered on the same basis with this readjusted starting date.
Sure. And just a clarification, you did mention that as far as shipbuilding is concerned, we will not require or we will not put any additional capital in the next 18 months in that business, right?
That is what we had announced about a year and a half or two years ago that because we had taken up large CapEx on the passenger side, we would not be allocating any fresh capital or management resources to the shipbuilding venture. Now that the CapEx cycle of the passenger side is coming to a completion and we are getting into regular production, in order to have the next engine for growth ready, which will be able to provide the growth over the next three to five years, we have decided to relaunch this venture where we already have a lot of credentials due to our past performance.
But investments will start when, sir, in this business?
As I mentioned a little while earlier, we will come back on the exact investment plans for both the shipbuilding and maritime systems and the safety and signaling systems once the same has been finalized and approved by the board. We will announce it to the government. I'm unable to give the numbers or the exact dates unless and until this is done.
Sure, sure, sure. Thank you so much, and best of luck for the future quarter, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you so much, sir.
Next question is from the line of Koushik Mohan from Ashika Group. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. I hope I'm audible. Sir, my question is basically on how are we looking for next two, three years near term, sir? And is the government budget impact? How is that impact on us, and how is the cash flows are working currently?
There were a number of questions. As far as the outlook is concerned, I just mentioned that the railways have stayed with their path of 3,000 million tons or 3 billion tons in 2030. Obviously, that is critical for us to be able to maintain our order flow and our production flow. If the railways or the CapEx of the government is not online, then the resultant cascading effect on all sectors, including ours, takes place. We do believe that the government has allocated a slightly enhanced budget compared to last year to the railways and to the CapEx spent in the railways. We are fairly confident and hopeful that the railways' performance will continue in the same manner that we had in the past. It will continue. In terms of the financial results, I think all the details are available in the presentation.
If there's something specific you'd like to know, I'm happy to answer that. But in general, I mean, the numbers, I would only be repeating what was already there in the presentation.
Okay. Sir, I just wanted to understand on your two new businesses that we are entering. One is on the shipbuilding, which is our old business. I wanted to understand what are we going to do there. And on the second business that I wanted to understand is the safety systems. Is it a very big focus that the government is putting up, and that's the reason you're getting into this business, and what expertise that we have here?
Again, I just answered these questions a little while ago. Definitely, both these businesses have a large CapEx spent in terms of safety and signaling system, as we understand almost a lakh crore is allocated out of the budget even this year on products that will be covered under the safety and signaling systems. Plus, there is synergy in terms of metros and all of that. So we believe that both the shipbuilding and maritime systems and the safety and signaling systems both can be very important drivers for growth over the next three to five years and beyond. It was after a lot of deliberation, a lot of deep study that we have done.
We have discussed this in the board several times, after which we have decided to relaunch or launch both these business verticals or business units because we do believe very strongly that each other, which was firing on one engine of growth earlier, then the second engine grew in terms of the passenger rail systems, and these two engines of growth will really take the company's growth to a much further level.
Sir, only one small request. If from next time if possible, can you break up even the shipbuilding as a new division and give the numbers?
So we will do that as would be appropriate. I mean, we take note of your request, and we'll definitely plan on doing so.
Sure, sure. Thanks, sir. I'll get back in the call.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Jennisa Popat from Systematix Group. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir. Thank you for taking my question. So I just wanted to know, are we still facing wheelset supply issues? And just wanted to know current run rate and the run rate that we expect going forward.
So yes, the wheelset supply issues are continuing even now. There is still the normalcy of production in railway factories has not yet been resumed. We are expecting that by the end of this month or next month, things should get better. In terms of the current run rate, I can only tell you about what we have done in the last quarter. And the balance, I think these are available for the industry on the website, so on the railway website. But in absence of my knowledge, whether it is available in public domain, I will not be able to disclose that. But definitely, the problem for the wheelset cannot yet fully resolved. It is continuing in this quarter as well.
Just a follow-up. So if we have supply issues for the Indian Railways, can we replace part of it with private production and supply to private players?
Yeah. We have already done that, but there is a limitation on the number of wagons that the private sectors can also take. Ultimately, the market dynamics is such that more than 90% of the wagons that are produced over a period of time are produced for the Indian Railways. It's only 10%-15% that goes to the private sector. So we are balancing that. We have also got the permissions from the railways to use our own wheelsets which we have secured for private sector in the production of the railway wagon. So with all of that, we have been trying to mitigate this, I would say, temporary shortage. But historically, this is a problem that has always remained.
Wheelsets have always remained a problem, and this was one of the reasons why this was missing a lot of strategic sense for us to enter into the wheelset production along with one of the shipbuilding. So we do expect that this problem that is there right now for Railway Wheel Factory should get resolved in the next few weeks. But the longest, I mean, the permanent solution will be once our production starts ourselves.
Got it, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Mayank Bhandari from Asian Market Securities. Please proceed.
Thanks for the opportunity. I just wanted to understand.
Mr. Mayank, your voice is very low.
Is it okay now?
Still very low, sir.
Okay. Is it clear now?
Yes, sir. Please proceed.
Just wanted to understand one thing on the private wagon side. What kind of margin we are anticipating in long term?
Hello. Hello?
Yes, sir. I think there's an echo. If you can go hands-free to ask the question, that will be easier because I'm unable to understand your question with the echo.
Okay. Hello. Yes. Hello. No, no. I just wanted to understand what kind of margin on the private wagon side we should build in long term, including the backward integration efforts you are making on this side?
So the blended margin of the freight business, as I've always said, is around 11%-12%. The volumes of operating leverage or the volume advantage will increase the margin by maybe half a percentage point, maximum 1 percentage point. But in terms of private sector, if you really.
Sorry to interrupt, sir. We also need to put on mute. I cannot. I'm unable to speak. It's background noise.
Sir, please go ahead.
If you can just mute and be silent and concentrate yourself. In terms of the private sector demand, the demand is only 10%-15% of the overall demand for wagons. Of course, the percentage of EBITDA margin is maybe 2%-3% higher in that. But then there is a higher risk that we carry. Private sector, as I have explained in the past, private sector places normally fixed price contracts, whereas the railways place contracts with the price variation clause. So if the prices do not, if the input prices do not go up, then the margin that one ends up making in the private sector is about 2%-3% more. But in case the prices of commodities like steel, etc., rise during the intervening period, then that margin is less or equal.
So for the sake of modeling, I would say it is much better to consider a blended EBITDA margin in this business of about 12%.
As you mentioned in the presentation, for Vande Bharat, it's increased to INR 72,000 crore versus INR 36,000 crore in last quarter, and the expected tender timeline is also revised to December 25, so can you give more granularity on this additional INR 36,000 crore worth of opportunity pipeline you have mentioned?
These are numbers that have been published by the government or in public domain. And as far as our knowledge is concerned, it is also restricted by the public knowledge that is available to everybody else. In terms of the granularity or concreteness of these opportunities, they will only become concrete once tenders are issued by the railways. So once they are done, then of course, we'll come back with the details of that. But at this point of time, we are unable to share any more granularity or concrete evidence of the size of these opportunities apart from what we have received from either government-published data or from public domain.
Sure. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Chinmay Gandre from Canara HSBC Life Insurance. Please go ahead.
Yeah. I have a question. So just on the metro side, if you can help us understand tenders which are floating right now, which are tenders could kind of open up in the next maybe six months or so?
Sure. Can I just request the organizers to please put the participants or even my colleagues on mute because there's a lot of echo coming in time and again? So answer the question. In terms of the tenders that we have participated, which are all in public domain, we have participated in Mumbai and Vande Bharat. And the new tenders that are expected are a number of them. There is tenders expected from another tender expected from Chennai. There's another expected from Bangalore, from Nagpur, from Pune, from Patna, from Delhi. So there is a number of tenders that are in the pipeline. If one goes to the Ministry of Housing and Urban Affairs website to see the ongoing projects, wherever infrastructure for metro is being created, they will obviously require the rolling stock. So all of them are opportunities that we are looking forward to.
So much of these tenders could likely finalize, I mean, open up in the next six months or so?
It would be speculative on our part to give a timeline because these are infrastructure projects. They have to follow a number of steps for the government, including the financial tie-ups and all of that. But we expect that most of these tenders that are there in order for the projects to be on time will be published over the coming financial year or even finalized. Most of them could get finalized over the next financial year, which is a private decision.
Good question.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in the interest of time, this will be the last question for the day. Thank you for joining Titagarh Rail Systems Limited Earnings Conference Call. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.