Ladies and gentlemen, good evening, and welcome to Barbeque Nation's Q4 and full year FY24 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Bijay Sharma. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Darren. Good evening, and welcome everyone to Barbeque Nation Q4 and full year FY24 earnings conference call. For today's call, I have with me Mr. Kayum Dhanani, Managing Director, Mr. Rahul Agrawal, CEO and Whole Time Director, and Mr. Amit Betala, CFO. We will begin the call with Mr. Kayum sharing his perspective on overall demand scenario and key highlights of the year. This will be followed by a detailed discussion on business performance and outlook by Mr. Rahul, who will then open the forum for an interactive Q&A session. Before we begin, I would like to remind you that some of the statements made in today's conference call may be forward-looking in nature and may involve risks and uncertainties. Kindly refer to our earnings presentation for a detailed disclaimer. I now hand over the conference to Mr. Kayum Dhanani. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. A very good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I take the pleasure in welcoming you to Q4 FY24 conference call of Barbeque Nation. In the context of the current operating environment, Barbeque Nation has demonstrated industry-leading performance during the previous quarter. Our strategic focus on portfolio rationalization, strong execution, and on multiple cost initiatives have helped us in delivering another strong operating performance. Our revenues have grown YOY by 6% during the quarter, and we are up by 1.7% on the full year basis. This was on the back of moderate network growth and negative SSSG for the full year. We have consciously moderated the network growth in FY24, and we are focusing on getting our operating margins to on track, which has been successfully delivered in H2 of this financial year.
Our adjusted EBITDA has grown by over 75% in H2 of this year over H1 on relatively same base of revenue. Similarly, adjusted EBITDA has almost doubled in Q4 this year versus the same period last year. This is testament that various initiatives undertaken during the year, such as portfolio rationalization and cost control initiatives, have started yielding results. We started to build our pipeline of network expansion in FY25 and beyond, and plan to open 100 new stores over the next three years. We plan to add 25-30 new restaurants in FY 2025. During the quarter, we opened 2 new restaurants in Barbeque Nation, India, and one in Salt. We also closed 2 restaurants during the quarter, resulting in a net network of 217 restaurants.
This includes 186 restaurants in India, 8 restaurants in international operations, 16 restaurants for Toscano, and 7 restaurants for Salt. Our Toscano business continued its strong growth trajectory. The business reported a revenue of INR 108 crore in FY 2024, a growth of around 19% compared to the same period last year. The reported EBITDA margins for the year was 26%. Our international business also continued its robust performance, with revenue of INR 90 crore in FY 2024, a growth of over 27% compared to last year. The growth was delivered by SSSG and addition of 2 new restaurants during the year. Reported EBITDA margin for the business is over 30%. Salt integration is also progressing well. We continue to focus on enhancing guest experience through initiatives such as culinary festivals, special menu activations, guest engagement initiatives, and restaurant upgrades.
These initiatives are anticipated to enhance overall guest experience and drive footfalls. While we also increase the pace of our network expansion, we will continue to watch out how the demand scenario pans out, and we'll also recalibrate our network expansion accordingly. The trend of improvement in SSSG and operating margins in our business is very encouraging, and we remain committed to further drive growth through SSSG and store expansion and maintain our operating margins. Our medium to long-term growth forecast remains intact, and any favorable shift in the demand trend will further support our journey. Thank you, and I will now hand over to Rahul to walk you through the performance in detail.
Thank you, Kayum. Good evening, everyone. During the quarter, we reported a revenue of INR 298 crore, a growth of 6.4% compared to the same period last year. The growth was supported by growth in both dine-in and delivery business. Dine-in business recorded year-on-year growth of 3.3%, and delivery business grew by 19.3% year on year in quarter four FY24. Our same-store sales growth for the quarter was 1.4%, driven by growth in our delivery business, while the dine-in SSG same-store sales growth was relatively flat.
During the quarter, our mature portfolio delivered an annualized revenue per store of INR 5.9 crores, with restaurant operating margins of 16.1%. Compared to Quarter Four last year, the revenue run rate improved by 2.7%, and margins improved by over 150 basis points. The new restaurant portfolio reported an annualized revenue per store of INR 4.5 crore, with restaurant operating margins of 7.8%. The new portfolio experienced average revenue growth of 16% and margin increased significantly from -1.2% in the previous year. On consolidated basis, annualized revenue per restaurant run rate increased by 5.8% to INR 5.5 crores, and restaurant operating margins of 14.4%, which is higher by 328 basis points over the previous year.
Gross margins for the quarter improved by over 300 basis points on a year-on-year basis. Part of it was around 80 basis points, improvement in gross margin during the quarter was due to reclassification adjustments, and balance improvement is primarily driven by softening of input costs and better realization, mainly in beverages. Consolidated reported EBITDA for the year, for the quarter was INR 662.4 crores, with margins of 20.9%. The reported EBITDA includes benefit of one-off income of INR 4.8 crore, arising on account of closure of leases because of Ind AS 116 impact. Reported EBITDA margin increased by 48% on a year-on-year basis. Our pre-Ind AS EBITDA for the quarter was INR 26.8 crores, with margins of 9%.
Our pre-Ind AS margin excludes the one-off income, which is part of other income in the reported financials. The adjusted EBITDA margin increased by almost 107% on year-over-year basis. On full year basis, we reported revenues of INR 1,255 crores, a growth of 1.7% compared to last year. Our reported EBITDA for the year was INR 230 crores, with margins of 18.3%, and pre-Ind AS adjusted EBITDA was INR 101 crores, with margin of 8.1%. Our pre-Ind AS EBITDA margin excludes the one-off income of INR 11.1 crores, which is part of other income in the reported financials. Despite the challenging operating environment, we have been able to deliver strong operating performance in H2 of the year.
On a relatively same revenue base, our adjusted EBITDA in H2 was higher by 75% over H1. The adjusted EBITDA margin is also increased from 5.8% in H1 to 10.3% in H2. Our international business continued its strong performance and recorded a revenue of INR 90 crore in FY24, with reported EBITDA margins of 32%. Toscano performance was also very encouraging. It reported a revenue of INR 108 crore, with reported EBITDA margins of 26%. Salt, similarly, is integrating very well with, Toscano and Barbeque Nation. We are also proposing a merger between Toscano and Salt, both of which are our subsidiary companies, to drive better operational efficiencies.
At the close of fiscal year, we had 217 restaurants, which included 106 restaurants in Barbeque Nation India, 8 restaurants in international business, 16 restaurants for Toscano and 7 for Salt. During this quarter, we added 2 restaurants of Barbeque Nation and 1 of Salt. We plan to add 25-30 restaurants in FY 2025, and this is a broad-based growth across brands. We plan to add around 15 restaurants in Barbeque Nation India, around 3 restaurants in international market, around 6 for Toscano and 3 in Salt. Going ahead, we remain optimistic about various initiatives undertaken by us, coupled with renewed focus on network expansion, which further enhance our operating performance. Also, any improvement in demand, demand trend will further support our performance enhancements. Thank you. With this, we can now open the session for Q&A.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to please use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have the first question from the line of Palash Kawale from Nuvama Wealth. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thank you for the opportunity, and congratulations on the good set of results. So my first question is on SSSG. So do we foresee SSSG returning to 5%-7% in FY 2025 and FY 2026?
Thank you, Palash, for this question. I think returning to 5%-7% FY 2025 will be a challenge. But we remain very hopeful for this number to remain, to build there in FY 2026. You know, in the current environment, it's getting very difficult to predict the world performance. For example, in the two months that have gone by in this quarter, April has been marginally impacted because of the monsoon season, and that has led to some business decline again. But May has been doing very well in the current scheme of things.
So I will shy away from giving a guidance of 5%-7%, but we'll endeavor to at least be on a positive territory, and my sense is that we should be able to deliver between 2%-3%. But obviously, as the year unfolds, we will have more information on that.
Okay, sir. Thank you for that. And sir, any store closures that you are planning this year?
I think, you know, store closure is part of our, you know, journey now. So while this year we are planning to open around 25-30 restaurants, my sense is that we might end up closing another 4-5 in the entire financial year. And this is something which will remain with us. We are, as we grow and reach a network of 16 stores, we'll have some stores which always need to be recalculated or even needs to be relocated or some markets we might have to exit.
Sir, my next question is on around margins. So if you attain an SSSG of 2%-3% for this year and again, 5%-7% next year, so how do you see margins shaping up by FY 2026?
... So, if I can break it into, you know, periods, obviously H1 was a difficult period for us. There are a lot of initiatives that we've also taken, and then we take some initiatives that is with timeline in which we start showing up. So, you know, if you look at three buckets, H1 was around 6% for us, or 5.8% for us. You know, we consciously worked on some of the, you know, some of the stores, you know, looked at some of the cost items, and also modeled the planner for some of the outlets which are not doing well. And, you know, we could bring it back to around 10% ATU now.
I think this number, you know, should sustain and, you know, we should not be going back to the, back to the 5% or 6% levels. That's my, that's my strong belief, as of now. Now, giving a guidance for FY 2026 today, at a SSG of around 5%-6%, I think we should be able to deliver anywhere between 12%-13% in FY 2026, sort of, period.
Thank you, sir, for your detailed answers. Yeah, that's it from myself. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you, Prash.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harit Kapoor from Investec. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good evening. Can you hear me? Yes, Harit. Hi, good evening. Yeah, hi. Yeah, congrats on the recovery as well as the, the disclosures for some of the, the newer, restaurant businesses. I, I just, had a question on the, you know, SSG bit. So if you can kind of dissect a little bit, Rahul, on, you know, where this improvement is coming from. You know, is it more metro-led? Is it more tier two, tier three-led? Because, you know, you have closed down a few stores in tier two, tier three, which were non-performing. So is that cohort recovering? Is there some recovery from, you know, some of the IT-led markets where, you know, the work from home impact is there? Is it coming from there, the recovery?
Just some, maybe some qualitative sense on, you know, where this improvement is, has been seen for your business, or is there a region-wise, you know, part that's, more impressive than another? So just wanted to get your sense on that. So it's, it's a bit broad-based, but, if I have to dissect it, first look at it between delivery and dine-in. I think large part of this positive SSG at the company level is, is driven by the overall, you know, delivery and optimized business for us. On the core dine-in business, you know, as you have seen with, other industry players, the delivery growth has been slightly better than the dine-in growth. Yeah.
In our business, since almost 35% of business comes from dine-in, you know, the growth has been slightly, you know, different. But on the SSG front, our, our dine-in SSG has been sluggish. And if I have to dig deeper into, you know, regional markets, I think, there's no emerging trend that I can, I can give you. You know, I think it's also a function of, at least some of the markets where we have, we have, you know, consolidated or, or closed one or two restaurants in some markets. Those markets have done very well because we have not seen, you know, loss of business, and those have in some manner moved on to some of our other existing outlets. So, so that has helped.
But by and large, it's very difficult to predict or to give you a sense of whether it's metro or tier two, tier three-led.
Got it. Got it. And the second question was on the non-Barbeque India-led businesses. So if I look at profitability, you know, in the international business, it's slightly come down, but it's still pretty strong. For Toscano also, similar range. Salt has actually improved. I assume that some initiatives you would have taken in the last three, four months of getting into your fold would have helped as well. I was just wondering if some of these, you know, margin performances were a little bit more back-ended or in the year.
I just wanted to understand if the exit rates also for some of these businesses are quite healthy from a margin standpoint.
No, certainly. So, you know, I think a large amount of consolidation also that they've done is they've done in Barbeque India business, right? So, other businesses, you know, have been doing, giving strong performances. If you look at, last year's number also for international, the margin drop in international is only led by the fact that we added two new stores there, right? On a base of six stores, and we added two more stores. Then there's some, you know, margin, decline that has happened because it takes some time to ramp up, right?
But despite that, on a pre-Ind AS basis, we are still delivering almost 18% EBITDA margin, you know, on a top line of close to INR 90 crore, right? So, there is no particular, you know, front-loading or back-loading, you know, happening on international business. Generally, international business does pretty well in quarter one, actually, because of, you know, Ramadan, COVID and all. Quarter two is weak in international market, mainly because of, you know, holiday season in that market, and it really picks up again in quarter three and quarter four. So Toscano continues to do very well. It has maintained its EBITDA margin of around 16% on a pre-Ind AS basis. The growth rate has been very strong.
You know, we acquired it just before COVID, but the CAGR in the business is around 10%-20% there. And from of the 16 assets ... They all are in prime locations, and they continue to deliver strong margins. And also are in, for the full year basis, in positive SSG territory. Salt is very new right now. I think we integrated it from November onwards, and the focus is more on trying to ensure that the back end is integrated here, so that once we start expansion in Salt, we're ready for that, right?
And the margin improvement is only marginal in this, but the focus there would be to first merge with Toscano and then start expanding. And that's why when you look at the current year projection, we are ready to add 6 stores of Toscano this year, out of which 2 are already in construction, and 2 are somehow, you know, you know, on the verge of being signed. And then Salt we are saying we'll get to 3 there. So I think non-barbecue business, Barbeque Nation business, have been performing extremely well for us. And Barbeque Nation business also with all the efforts that we have taken over last 3-4 quarters have been building results for us.
Got it.
And, the other thing also on the inflation side, so you mentioned that, you know, it's been fairly benign, and that's driven the gross margin also. I just also wanted to check, you know, in terms of what the near-term outlook looks like for you right now on the inflation side. I mean, anything to worry about? And then also from that perspective, you know, how do you think about pricing this year?
So, I think it's going to be stable for us. The meat prices are the key. Yeah. While on chicken side, we might see some inflation, but on the prawns and fish side, we are seeing, you know, sort of flattish or a downward trend on the prices, at least.
In terms of our pricing, you know, it's fairly very dynamic. We keep you know, looking at our table turns, our you know, capacity utilization, and then take a call on pricing. But my sense is that we'll shy away from taking any you know, any pan-India price hike this year, but try and focus more on providing value to our guests so that we can build on the volume in the core dining business for Barbeque Nation.
Got it. Last question is on the restaurant building Barbeque Nation India. I mean, I think after a break of about a few quarters, we have started to kind of talk about you know, double-digit additions in terms of restaurants.
I'm just wondering, you know, does that also kind of signal, you know, the basis what you're seeing on the ground, that while it's hard to still say, but at least as I said, you're trying to, you know, directionally, still look positive, and that's why this kind of a renewed expansion kind of thought process in the Barbeque Nation business?
No, true, and, you know, obviously, when we expanded aggressively in FY 2023, and, we had to go through some rough patch for a couple of quarters because of that, that memory is with us. But if you look at the difference in our approach now, and that's the learning which we have also seen over a period of last two years.
You know, in FY 2023, we added almost 35 restaurants, and by and large, all of them were from Barbeque Nation India business, right? And there's also a backdrop of, you know, great performance in India business after COVID. This time around, when we are again relooking at overall growth of, say, 25-50 stores this year, this is very broad-based. In Barbeque Nation India business, you know, I'm targeting to do around 15 restaurants, 12-15 restaurants, which is practically, you know, one restaurant a month, right? Which, which for a network like ours is completely, you know, doable. And there are market opportunities so that we don't impact our margins also.
You know, consciously, over a period of last two years as we are building and also, you know, working on some of our non-Barbeque India businesses, they are now sort of ready to, I would say, you know, fire more. So international business, you know, as you have seen us talking about this, we're always very cautious about international because the cost of mistake there is very high. But today, with pretty much a long, you know, four-year of history in that business, we feel very comfortable to open two or three, you know, restaurants in, in that market very easily. Same with Toscano.
I think we spent slightly longer than what we usually have done in terms of building our dedicated teams for that, and now they are all in place. Today, we feel very comfortable to add six there and very few in Toscano. So, I mean, the difference between growth in FY23 versus 25 is going to be the fact that last year was led by one brand, but this time around it will be led by, you know, led by multiple brands.
Great. Wish you all the best. Thanks.
Thank you, Harit.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pritesh Chheda from Lucky Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Can you give a breakdown of the CapEx that you have spent of about INR 80+ crores?
Right. So, there are three parts to it. We have added around 13 new restaurants this year, out of which 2 are international. And we have also relocated 8 of our restaurants, which is pretty much like a new store. So overall, 21 outlets have been added. And international generally are at higher CapEx, so around INR 63-64 crores have been spent on new store expansion. We have added-
Just a minute. Excuse me. 13, 13 new restaurants-
Yeah.
-in which two are international, right?
Yes.
So, 11 are Indian that are spent at how much CapEx, 11 restaurants?
So that would have done around INR 33 crore.
About INR 3 crore?
Yeah, INR 3 crores each.
And then two restaurants of international at?
Around INR 10 crore.
That's about 53, and 8 relocations.
Sorry, forty-three.
2 into INR 5 crore, that is basically INR 5 crore per restaurant international?
... Yeah, yeah. So, 11 into 10-
There is 43. Okay, 43.
Yeah, 43. And then another 8 relocations, which is around INR 21 odd crores.
Okay.
Sixty-four.
Okay.
We had spent around INR 15 crore on regular maintenance, plus some of the restaurants, upgradation, which is not relocation, but generally better look and feel of the existing sites.
Okay. So basically, I understand. And then you have also closed down 8 plus 4 plus 4 plus 2, so 18 restaurants you closed down, 21 you relocated, right?
Right.
8 + 21, which is about 39, and you added for the year 1,352. So that is 52 divided by 216. Let's say about one fourth of your network has been added, reshuffled or closed. Okay?
Yes.
So, so then that whole cannibalization related, which you were calling out for the last, you know, year before this, basically, when that gets start reflecting in SSG, because it's one fourth of your restaurants which have been addressed or looked at.
So, relocated are part of SSG, because this is pretty much in the same trade area.
Mm.
On the balance portfolio, you know, our SSGs obviously for the last few quarters have been in the increasing trend.
So basically, it's about a SSG number which is, let's say, higher than the inflation number, although a 5%-6% number where it starts benefiting your margin. So from that angle, when should this play out in your opinion?
You have to also look at it in the context of the current operating environment, right? So, you know, the SSG numbers that are generally in the industry being reported also is negative. And if you look at those numbers versus our numbers for the quarter, we are, I think, in the better sort of quartile, right? So it's just a function of market. And, I think, you know, this year, full year basis, we should be in a positive territory and expect to be in a 5% plus range from FY26 onwards.
On the GP number, where it moved about 400-500 basis points in 4 quarters, so here it's a mix which is playing out, or it is cost?
No, it's not moved 500 basis point in the fourth quarter.
Between the four quarters. So quarter one was, GP was-
Yeah, yeah.
Exit is 69.
So if you remember, in quarter one, we have also done some value offers, Happy Monday Tuesday offers, very aggressively, because of which our our gross margins have been lower. But if you look at quarter four versus quarter two, which is a more reasonable sort of number for that period, this was approximately 66%, which has gone up to around 69% now, right? On the 300 basis points, like I said, there is a reclassification of impact of around 80 basis points. And this is, this classification is on the on the restaurant employees' food cost, which was earlier part of food cost, which, as per our new audit, which will move to the to the employee cost. So there is 80 basis points from there.
On the 210 basis points, there is, you know, some benefit of the input cost and the balance, you know, benefit is coming from, price realization. You know, the beverage, gross margin, which used to be earlier around 55-60%, has now moved around 75%. So that's actually impacted that.
Okay. Thank you very much, sir.
Thank you, Pritesh.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Himani Shah from Alchemy Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks for all my questions.
Hi, ma'am.
Hi. All my questions are being answered. Thank you, sir.
Thank you, ma'am.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nirav Sekhsaria, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. So what level of contribution are we expecting from delivery going forward?
So, it's around 15%-16%. You know, we are expecting to actually maintain that and continuously work towards growing it more than how we're doing. But, you know, like I, as I said earlier, we are not targeting to change the proportion of delivery to dining. Dining is a very, you know, profitable business for us, and we would love to see whether, you know, that business grows faster than what it is growing right now, given the current industry scenario. It just so happened that last year delivery did better than dining, but otherwise, you know, we're not consciously trying to change the share.
We are obviously targeting to grow that business at around 15%-16% every year, and pretty much try and maintain the similar numbers for delivery, for dining.
On a longer term, what I can have, we are planning to maintain it around 15%-16%, but dining, delivery being a higher profit margin business for us, why, why wouldn't we scale it up?
No, delivery is not a higher profit margin business for us. Dining is a better profit margin business for us.
...Okay. You have said that you're opening 25 new stores this year in FY 2025. What is the amount of CapEx are we planning? Could you give me a split between barbecue and non-barbecue restaurants?
So overall, on 2025, so new outlets that we spend will end up being CapEx of around INR 100 crore for the full year. This also includes maintenance CapEx and some other CapEx at the corporate level that we keep investing. On, in terms of breakup between various brands, we plan to do around 15 restaurants for Barbeque Nation, around six for Toscano and three for Salt.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you, Dheeraj.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, you may please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Giriraj Daga from Visaria Family Trust. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hello? Hello. Yeah, my question is related to gross margin. So last quarter, like, we closed somewhere about 68.5%, slightly higher than that. What should be the level of gross margin we're assuming for, let's say, FY 2025? Like, we should be able to sustain this number of quarter four?
Yes. So, I think it should be in the range of 68%-69%, in the business. We should be able to sustain this.
Okay. Okay. And, like, just to clarify, you mentioned that adjusted margin should be about 10% for the full year.
Yes.
That number can go to about 12%-13% you mentioned for the FY 2025, FY 2026, when the, you have it 5%-6% SSSG?
Yes.
Okay. Okay. Thanks a lot.
Thank you, Giriraj.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Govinda Alagi from Nathulal & Sons Stockbrokers Pvt. Ltd. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. So most of the questions have been answered, but I just want few clarifications or you say, certain understandings regarding the delivery business, particularly UBQ. So I can see the brand has been launched in 2018, and it has contributed, like, good, like, overall 19.3% growth. And as our sir said, that it has a good capabilities, like, good profit margin. Going forward, I just want to understand, like, how do you see this brand, like, will grow? Like, what are the challenges being facing or expecting in future? What could be the delivery charges, and what, what is the revenue split between the UBQ and the Dum Safar? Like, please, throw some colors, like the insightful, like, that we don't know about this two delivery business, particularly like UBQ. Thank you.
So, thank you, Govinda, for this. Our delivery business is a mix of delivery sales that we do from across all our brands. UBQ, yes, we started in 2018, but the real kick to the brand only came post-COVID. You know, and Dum Safar also we started almost a year back and is scaling up pretty well. On UBQ, you know, both UBQ and Dum Safar are pretty much acting like a cloud brand right now because they all operate from the existing Barbeque Nation, you know, kitchen. And they don't have a storefront for the guest to look at. I think we will experiment with some of these. You know, we have experimented with one Dum Safar counter.
It's very early days there, and you know, whatever learnings are coming from that business we are incorporating. But we are just seeing how we can put the brand in front of our guests so that the brand recall is higher, they can try our product, and then eventually also go and order from the delivery platform. Something similar we are also wanting to do with UBQ, wherein we can open up either a small kiosk or a small you know, sit-down sort of area with 8-9 sq ft. And deliver a very you know, à la carte experience to our guests, because we understand Indian cuisine, and there's something that can be delivered, and also there's a market, right?
But both of these are, are very early, you know, stage, and, that's something which, we keep working on, on various projects. And at appropriate time, we'll also, also bring on to the, to the forefront and discuss, the, the market at large in general. So that's where we are right now. I think, so before COVID till now, the, the growth has been extremely, good. What we delivered in, in FY 2024, 2022, there was some sort of break in FY 2023, but now, they are both in, in growth trajectory.
More importantly, you know, there have been getting better, you know, guest ratings now, and, you know, our NPS scores and these have been also, you know, marginally increasing over the quarters.
Okay. So second one is, I just want clarification on the official name of the brand, like, the Red Apple Kitchen is known to be Toscano, and the Blue Planet Foods is known to be Salt. So what is the official one? Like, what is the official name, like, in terms of the company or the brand?
Yes, the company name is Red Apple Kitchen Consultancy Private Limited. That houses the brand Toscano in this. And, the other company's name is Blue Planet Foods Private Limited, which has the brand Salt in that.
The official names are the Red Apple Kitchen and Blue Planet Foods, right?
Yes. Yes, yes.
Okay. Okay, fine. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
...Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, you may please press star and one. We have the next question from the line of Mahesh Atal from Atal and Associates. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi there. I'm fairly new to the company, so my questions will be a bit foundational. So just looking at the depreciation numbers, so what this all the restaurants that we have, are they owned restaurants or it's like a asset-light model for us? Out of 217, how much would be the asset-light and the owned ones? So it's very if you could answer that.
So we lease these premises, you know, in the country, and then we set up our own restaurants. We don't franchise our restaurants. All of these restaurants are owned and operated by us.
So entirely it's owned, the premises itself are owned?
No, premises are not owned by us. They are on lease, but the entire restaurant is constructed by us.
Nothing, I mean, out of 217, nothing is owned.
Nothing is owned, no. Okay. So when you say that, so I could see the depreciation and amortization expense. So what kind of expenditure goes into this? This is all lease expenditure?
Sorry, this is what?
This is all lease, I mean, lease part only,
lease part, and also this also includes the impact of of Ind AS 116.
Okay, fair enough. And one more thing, in this 217 restaurants, what kind of seats you have, you might be having, like, how many seats, how do you look at that?
So on average, we have between 120-130 seats.
Per restaurant.
Each restaurant. Yes, per restaurant.
And yeah, so what is the average revenue that you generate? I mean, what you look...
I mean, with the restaurant, or if you can give me, like, what would be the breakeven point at which you will have a breakeven in that particular restaurant?
The breakeven points differs from site to site. It depends on, you know, what is the area of the location, what is the rent that we are paying. Obviously, rent in a mall in Bombay would be higher than rent in a tier two city. So to that extent, the breakeven points are, you know, are different. So it's very difficult to give- Yeah, I get that. I mean, sorry.
Also, one more thing, so are you also, when you say that you have just relocated 54, restaurants, I mean, you have already relocated or, done something sort of change in that. So was this because that the restaurant, what, what, what was the analysis that went behind that? Like, low performance or like you were of a view that the, walk-ins were not there or what exactly went into that? And, more on that, those areas, like, what are the food habits like? I mean, do you, do you research-
So, when you, when you talk about relocation, what we mean by that is, we have not vacated the trade area. We are still in that trade area, just that we moved from one particular site to other particular site, right?
There could be multiple reason for that. Predominantly, there are two. One is, that restaurant has been used extensively, you know, for last 12-15 years. You know, the designs that were, there earlier is now outdated, and we need to give a fresh experience to our guests. So we'll set up a new one and then, you know, shift our business there. And typically, this will be within, you know, 100 m of or 120 m of the existing site, also depending on whether we find the site or not. So, so it's primarily driven by, the fact that we have to give a renewed experience to our guests.
The second one being, you know, being in that location for a period of 10, 12 years, we have gone through multiple cycles of rental escalations. Now the rental has reached to a point wherein, you know, you can get much better rental, say, 30%-40% reduction in rentals if you move to another site. And 30%-40% rental reduction is also on account of one general, you know, market.
And secondly, also on account of the fact that, you know, if the earlier site was, say, larger, say, 600 sq ft, now with the new design that we have come up with, we can set up the same amount of sitting capacity on a smaller area, say, 400 sq ft, right? So you can manage and reduce our area requirement by 25%. So put together, if you are saving, you know, on rentals per month, you are also giving enhanced experience to the guest. And, you know, in your payback analysis, it makes sense, we go ahead and relocate that.
Fair enough. And, one more thing, does Barbeque Nation service, do you have any exclusive vegetarian restaurants?
No, we don't have any right now.
Okay.
I mean, see, I just, I mean, because there is no... I could see that there has been a lot of, you know, say, a lot of things said by you in the last year, which I don't see in the numbers. So what went, I mean, either what went in 2024, and what could not happen, and what are you doing to, I mean, come up with that in financial year 2025? So if you please give me a sense on that.
Yeah.
Sorry, Mahesh, this is a very broad-based question in terms of what was said in the previous year and what you know went differently. I think it's better that you know we can go through maybe the transcript earlier, and if there's a specific point that you're looking on, I can explain that and discuss. Otherwise-
Okay.
-It's very difficult for me to-
Restaurant, how much would you like having? How much you are loss-making and how much you are profit-making currently?
No, we don't give that number. So that changes with seasonality. So, how they behave during quarter three because quarter four is very different. So, you know, it's better that we don't, you know, give that number and also confuse on that.
Cool. All right. Thank you.
Thank you, Mahesh. Thank you.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask questions may press star and one. The next question comes from the line of Nirav Sekhsaria, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, thank you for the follow-up. So could you also specify the amount of alcoholic alcohol contribution to the revenue in Barbeque Nation?
It's just around 4%-5%. That is alcohol. It doesn't include other beverages. Other beverages put together and alcohol put together is around 9%.
Are we planning to increase our other beverages and alcohol-specific contributions since it has, it has a higher profit margin attached to it?
We always deliver to, yes, it has the higher contribution margin to us, and everything incrementally sold is obviously revenues and margins. But, by and large, our experience has been that this range between this level, predominantly because we are known for our food, we are known for all you can eat, and when a consumer comes to our restaurants, you know, he comes with a particular budget, and he comes to enjoy the unlimited, you know, starters, desserts and main courses that we offer, and generally not move towards beverages.
Just one clarification here also, it is little lower, because in most of our restaurants, large part of our restaurants, we offer one free beverage during lunch sessions from Monday to Monday to Friday, and sometimes Saturday also. So if you look at incidence of beverages, by that I mean, how many bills have got beverages attached to that, that number will be approximately 15%.
Okay. But, so when you say one free beverage, is it alcoholic or is it non-alcoholic?
No, non-alcoholic.
Okay. But are we planning to get in any initiative to increase our alcoholic beverage segment or not in overall beverage segment?
So the-
We can add on a specific amount with for an unlimited beverage, which also increases the fullness of a consumer.
That's true. You're right about that, and we have done some offers which is actually running there in the various markets. That's also a function of, you know, other promotional, you know, deals that you're also getting from, beverages companies. But, you know, in our experience, whenever we have tried to do that, and, and with the objective of trying to attract people who want to drink unlimited, typically, we've seen that, those preferences with unlimited drinks, you know, don't move to us because at Barbeque Nation, when you come to drink unlimited, beverages, then you also have to pay for around INR 80 for the unlimited food that you, that you consume, right?
By and large, you know, our consumer and our guest segment is the one who want to enjoy food rather than, rather than beverages.
I totally get that point. So what I was trying to say is that we can pitch non-alcoholic beverage along with our food, which is attractive towards the customer.
Sure. No, I understand, and we have tried that in various markets, and obviously endeavor is to keep increasing it as much as possible.
Okay. And, sir, do we have any number on the amount of stores that we wanna revamp or reallocate or close during FY 2025?
No, I think, we might end up closing around 5, you know, restaurant FY 2025. You know, might, because some are still not decided upon. And I think going forward also, you know, we can expect a closure rate of around 3-5 every year, now.
What about revamp and reallocate?
That's very, you know, site specific, so that's also, you know, depends on, you know, whether we need to—whether we get a different rental deal at that point in time. But by and large, I don't think we'll do more than 3-4 relocation, you know, in the present year. But in case of revamping, you know, upgrading the front-end look and feel, that's something that we'll, that is, that is taken up by the strategy and, and we might have end up doing it for pretty much every restaurants which are, which are more than 6-7 years old for us, and this needs upgradation.
Okay. And how much time does it take for such restaurants, which are reallocated and revamped to be breakeven?
No, it's not that, we do it for stores which are not breakeven. So we also do it for the stores which are, which are generating handsome, you know, margins, right? We just have to keep ourselves, you know, fresh and relevant for our guests. So that exercise is, is actually almost continuous.
No, no, I get it, but for example, if you are reallocating any restaurant, I think so there is some additional cost attached to it, so it will take some time, additional time to breakeven, if I'm not wrong, right?
No, I didn't get that. Why, why is that?
If we are reallocating, then, closure and signing a new lease, which has some amount of costs associated to it.
...No, this, that's not true. So, you know, once you move, relocate, then you are relocating something which is older, and the rentals would have been slightly higher. Or if the rentals would go up, then you actually go to a, you know, high footfall mall wherein, you know, it also get the advantage on the turnaround and the footfalls, right? So it's not that when we relocate, our costs go up. In fact, during our relocation strategy, we've only seen that costs actually come down, the operating costs come down.
Okay. Are you seeing any increase footfall in such restaurants?
So, yes, because the restaurants are new, you know, it's designed differently. You know, we have more, you know, some counters there which enhances the experience of the guest. So, yes.
On an approximate basis, could you tell us percentage increase in footfall in such restaurants?
No, I don't have a handy number because it's all, you know, differs between the restaurants and also time period, right? Some of these are not even done one year, so I can't do a like-to-like comparison.
Is it fair for me to assume the number can be between 10%-20%?
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Yeah.
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Harit Kapoor from Investec. Please go ahead.
Yeah, around this one, the CapEx for this year, what's the expectation by this number?
So, there will be around INR 100 crore for assuming 25 new stores that come up. Around INR 75 crore will go towards towards new store. Around INR 16 crore- INR 18 crore will go towards maintaining CapEx and some refurbishments, and another, you know, INR 8 crore-INR 10 crore will go towards you know the corporate level expenditures that they have to do.
Okay, got it. Thanks. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. On behalf of Barbeque Nation, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.
Thank you.