Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the UltraTech Cement Limited Q1 FY26 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on a touch-tone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Atul Daga, Chief Financial Officer of the company. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you so much, Ayo. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening to everyone, and welcome to our Q1 Fiscal 2026 Earnings C all. Let me straight away dive into burning issues with demand. We believe that the markets have been steady, to say the least. Fundamentally, the government spend on roads continues with announcements of some new projects and push for expediting land acquisitions. The government CAPEX program has shown a marked improvement in the first two months of this quarter on the low base of April, May 2024. We are seeing rising state government spend. States like Bihar, Andhra Pradesh, Gujarat, and Maharashtra are doing much better than the other states YoY . The country has already built 2,108 km of highways in the first quarter of the current financial year, marking an 8.9% increase YoY .
Mega projects like Badavan Port, some dams, Maharashtra Shaktipeet Expressway, the 802 km expressway between Maharashtra and South Konkan, are starting off. On a full-year basis, we believe that the government CAPEX will generate a good growth marked by a low base of fiscal 2025. This should be, all in all, very good for cement demand. Diving into our current quarter and the report, actually, we had got used to the double-digit growth till fiscal 2024, year after year, quarter after quarter, and anything less seems to be slow. Consolidated UltraTech Cement has grown at 9.7% YoY , including KSORAM in both the periods, though for all ends and purposes, KSORAM cement business got consolidated with us, or we started managing the operations effectively from 4th of March 2025. It's been just four months.
As per the NCLT scheme, we have consolidated the financials of KSORAM in the last reported quarter, which is April, June 2024 also has been recast to include it in our results. Weather gods, as usual, have been generous this quarter, giving the country relief from the heat waves, but the heat waves caused a lot of turmoil in the initial part of the quarter. The monsoons now having spread across the country will be good for the rural markets. Rural markets continue to be doing their fine song, and we expect them to grow favorably in the future months and future quarters.
Urban housing, as per some IPC reports, the first half of the calendar has been slow, but the number of deals being signed up, land purchases already registered, and transactions being undertaken clearly speak about a rebound which should be visible in the future quarters in the redevelopment market. The redevelopment market remains strong for Mumbai and Pune, and we are seeing continuous launches of new projects. These new projects, which get launched, would see cement consumption commencing only after 12 months - 18 months of their launch. This is very important to mention because Mumbai, as a city, might be close to 3% of all India's cement demand. One more important point that I want to make at this juncture.
We had stated during the last quarter, and this is just anecdotal, we had stated in the last quarter that cement demand in the country was around 4% for January-March 2025. There were talks and reports of the growth being actually 6.5%-7% from various quarters. I admit I was wrong because considering the performance of 90% of the installed capacity of 655 million tons in the country, Q4 2025 was not 4%, but 4.3% growth. This is just to set the record straight about UltraTech and its analysis of the cement market. I want to talk about The India Cements Limited now, the company that we had acquired. Concluded the transaction on 25th of December 2024. It's been six months or two quarters that we have been in charge of that company, and the company is on a recovery path, growing and working to the plan.
The team has done a full assessment, as mentioned earlier, and we will be undertaking a CAPEX plan for efficiency and productivity improvement going forward. Most of these projects will have an attractive payback period and will generate positive returns. Projects would include WHRS, speed or modification, cooler upgrades, alternate fuel technology, to name just a few. Today, the cost of production is higher than average, but fiscal 2028 will see substantial improvements in operating costs as we complete the CAPEX program. We are increasing the renewable energy quotient with 219 MW of WHRS sorry, 21 MW of WHRS and 219 MW of renewable energy , thus taking the green power quotient for The India Cements Limited from 3% to 86% of their power requirements in fiscal 2028, helping us reduce its carbon footprint.
The CAPEX program, the details of which we will definitely share in the next quarter, will be all funded with debt and internal accruals, and we expect to reach a debt level of under INR 50 crore by the end of the program, and thus reaching almost a net debt positive, net cash on the balance sheet. Fuel costs, as you have always been tracking, have been in control, which will also help the operations of The India Cements . This performance of The India Cements , which recorded about operating at EBITDA of INR 400 per ton, was after taking into account the introduction of limestone royalty of INR 160 per metric ton in the state of Tamil Nadu.
We are rapidly integrating the operations of The India Cements with that of UltraTech, getting the advantage of brand UltraTech as we move along, and we are confident of reaching EBITDA per metric ton in excess of INR 1,000 by fiscal 2028. Yeah. Beyond that, we have already started integrating the—we are nearly completing the integration of KSORAM assets, which have blended in very smoothly with our operations and are on a course for capacity expansion in terms of capacity utilization and improving their efficiency further with WHRS installation. Costs have had some impact. There were global price volatilities. Fuel costs have been higher. In fact, they went up. Petcoke prices consumed during the quarter were slightly higher as compared to previous periods, which is reflected in the overall fuel cost. Other than that, there is nothing much that we are concerned about.
In conclusion, I would like to reiterate that UltraTech Cement continues to be well-positioned in the Indian cement market. Our strategic investments in new capacities, cost optimization initiatives, and commitment to green technologies position us for continued growth in a competitive environment. We believe our results this quarter demonstrate our ability to adapt to the changing market scenario whilst we deliver on our financial commitments. I'd like to thank all of you for joining us today and look forward to taking your questions now. Thank you so much.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may press star and one on the touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking questions. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from Rahul Gupta from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Hi, Ayo. Thank you for taking my question. First of all, congratulations on a very good set of numbers. I have two related questions, Atul sir. First, we have seen India Cements numbers improving at a fast pace over the past two quarters. Now, I understand cement pricing was supportive in the first quarter, but is there a case that operating performance for both KSORAM and India Cements ran faster than your earlier guidance of clocking INR 1,000 per ton by fiscal 2026 and 2028, respectively?
It could happen. Pricing as such, nobody has a control. As of now, the prices are favorably poised in spite of monsoons, heavy monsoons, the prices have not taken a beating yet. Or they hold. I've seen prices improving in July also over the exit quarter. So prices holding up, obviously could go back. Could help us achieve our targets earlier. Besides prices, most important is the integration effort, and there are a lot that happens in an integration effort. It's not just pricing. It's right from people, processes, product, quality, logistics. Everything is getting integrated, which helps us realize our goals.
Got it. Now, my related question is, I understand south price hikes sustained month after month during the quarter. Now, this was also on back of multiple months of unsustainable weak pricing in the region. Second, demand was pretty good in the region during the quarter. Now, my question is, how should we look south from here? I mean, should this continue, or is there elevated competitive landscape? Can bring back what we saw last year? How should we look the entire region? What's your view on this? Thank you.
If you want to look south, go north. Do not go southwards. That is in the light of rain. Our sense is that the south markets getting consolidated are in good shape. We should not feel any negative pressures as of now. Luckily, there are mega projects which are happening in the southern states. If I look at the commercial markets for data centers, offices, warehousing, everything is adding up. It should be good. Let me request Jhanwarji to add his thoughts.
Yeah. Just to further add upon what Atul said, because one is the south prices were so low, actually, so the entire industry suffered very badly in the last one year. That's number one. Number two, I think there is a good trigger on the demand side, particularly the change of state leadership in Andhra Pradesh, where now, again, the new capital is being planned and a lot of infrastructure projects have been announced. Even in Telangana, which is still not up to the mark, actually, but there are good green fruits that they will also pick up. Tamil Nadu is also going for election after some time. I think south, in terms of demand, should do well. If the demand is good, hopefully [crosstalk] prices are going to increase.
Yeah, so south could be on you north.
We look forward to it, sir. All the best. Thank you so much.
Anything else, Rahul?
No, I'm good. Not much in the results.
There's so much in the results, yeah. I would feel good in my results.
No, my point is that your boarding number should be good.
All right. Thanks, Rahul.
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from Raashi Chopra from Citigroup. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Just a question on the realization, that 2.2% increase that you see this sequentially, is that when you say it's UltraTech brand, that includes KSORAM as well?
No, that's at UltraTech level. Because KSORAM still has its own brand phase MGR fast migrating. India Cements also has its own brand. Of course, India Cements is not included in this number. This is speaking about UltraTech as a brand. That's what I've highlighted on the slide also.
If we were to, I mean, if you could give us a standalone realization as an UltraTech plus KSORAM , not India Cements, but UltraTech plus KSORAM , what is that differential sequentially?
Considering the volumes, Raashi, it might be a 0.1% or so lower. That's it. Because the size of. Size is very less. Very small, sorry.
Understood.
It will be 2.4. It will be 2.3%, not beyond that, Raashi.
Okay. Got it. All right. Possible to share the building products number for 1 Q last year revenue?
One second if I have it ready. It's in here. I don't have it readily. I will announce it. Around INR 185 crore. Around INR 185 crore. Ankit tells me that.
Understood. Lastly, what was the CAPEX during this quarter?
It has been around INR 2,000 crore. Generally, that's been the run rate e very quarter. So I don't remember the exact number, but it should be around that level only.
Okay. This is not, I mean, this does not include what you are planning to send to The India Cements or what you have sent to The India Cements ?
No. No. So The India Cements will fund its own CAPEX.
Got it. Okay. Thank you.
Thanks, Raashi.
Thank you. Next question is from Amit Morarka from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, Ayo. Good evening. Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on a great result. Just for a clue on the brownfield expansions, you will be reaching 211-212 million ton. I believe that's going to happen in 15months-18 months of time. One is how much more brownfield expansion scope is already there in the portfolio, in the expanded portfolio, and by when can we expect the next round of expansion to be taken up?
Amit, I think I must have told you also that we are, the blueprint for the next phase of growth is getting stitched and ready. We will present it to our board, and before the end of this calendar, or worst case, before the end of this financial year, we will come back with the next phase of organic growth. You'll have to wait for that. Let Jhanwarji also answer.
Yeah. Fundamentally, as Atul said rightly, I can only say that the UltraTech would continue to partner in the growth story of the country. We all know the demand is going anything between 5% -7%, 8%. UltraTech would like to partner in that growth journey. That is where we have to, as Atul said, we have to plan out our growth journey on a regular basis.
Amit, you've got the answer. If industry is growing at 5%-7%, we will not get left behind. To be able to support the growth of the economy and the industry.
[audio distortion] ?
Sorry. I've been going round. There are enough opportunities for us for doing downfield, and greenfield opportunities are also coming up. This will be our fourth phase of growth that we'll be announcing. There'll be a fifth phase of growth, which the team has started working now, which will come up at an opportune time.
That's great to hear. Also, on the rebranding strategy for KSORAM and India Cements, is there some tolling happening between India Cements and UltraTech?
Yes, please. The way we are dealing with it, we, whatever output is getting converted into UltraTech brand and the prices that UltraTech is able to realize on that, everything is passed on to India Cements, except for a small margin which takes care of the marketing expense which UltraTech incurs, which is roughly INR 10 a bag or INR 200 a ton. If I were to account that component in India Cements P&L, the reported INR 400 per ton would actually be INR 458 per ton.
Even just the volume that you are selling the UltraTech name, that benefit is also being passed on to India Cements P&L?
Yes. Absolutely. KSORAM, there is no pricing because KSORAM sits as part of UltraTech P&L. There is no differential.
Right. Any volume you could provide? How much is [audio distortion] brand and how much would be UltraTech brand coming out of India Cements?
Actually, we are wrapped. I wouldn't want you guys to, your mind getting diverted with quarterly numbers because month after month, the volumes are ramping up. We should be able to conclude the brand transition program before the end of fiscal 2027. Next year, we should be able to complete 100%.
Great. Thank you so much.
Thanks.
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from Prateek Kumar from Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good afternoon, sir.
Go ahead.
My first question is on pricing. You said it's like 2%, 2.5% increase in pricing. I guess, is it largely related to south and how are the other regions just paneled in the quarter?
South and east, which had trailed behind, took the maximum advantage or maximum gain, followed by north and west.
Okay. [audio distortion]
Huh?
Sorry. Keep going, you said.
No, no, no. Sorry, I paused you in between. Please go ahead with your point.
I was saying that in July also, you said prices are slightly higher. How are that region-wise?
I would say east continues to rise. We've seen increases in other markets except north. North and west, we have not seen any increases because they're already very well priced. Other markets are seeing very small increases.
Okay. Is it possible to give out the KSORAM volumes in the base so that we can adjust our quarterly base of volumes?
1.58 million tons was Q1 fiscal 2024.
25.
2025, fiscal 2025. Sorry. My bad.
No, I mean quarterly for next two quarters also because you'll be giving the without [audio distortion].
Yeah, understood. Prateek, I'll ask Ankit to give it to you offline. I don't have it readily. You want each quarter breakup, now?
Yes, yes.
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Okay. I have more questions. I'll get back to you.
Sure. Sure, Prateek. Next question, please.
Yes. The next question is from Pulkit Patni from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Sir, thank you. Thank you for taking my question. Sir, mine is also a big bookkeeping question. If you could just break down the volume a little clearer. So 2.18 million is India Cements?
Yeah, please.
32.46 is the rest of it. Now, within this, what is UltraTech and what is KSORAM? If you could help us s plit that?
34.64 is Including The India Cements. The India Cements was 2.18. Now, further splitting is very difficult because we go on market basis, and markets could be operating from various plants. So Pulkit, it's next to impossible because we have multiple plants in the same market. For example, KSORAM, Sarlanagar plant and our Rajshree Cement plant both are in Karnataka. They supply to Karnataka, they supply to Maharashtra, and various other markets becomes a little difficult for us to segregate. I'll request Jhanwarji to add further.
Yeah. No, I think it has been explained very well. I have nothing to add because it's a question of the overall optimization of UltraTech, whether it's a product optimization, cost optimization, the market optimization, and at times, the customer optimization. We do not look now as a separate unit or a separate company. The entire focus is fundamentally the integrated approach, what makes sense for the company. At times, if some plant is inefficient, we do not operate plant to that extent.
Sir, I fully appreciate that. What I'm trying to come to is, what is the kind of annual volume growth that we are looking at? Given the base exchange, it's making it a little difficult for us to be able to calculate it, which is why a base number would help. If not, if you could give us a sense of what's the annual volume growth approximately that you are looking at [audio distortion] ?
We would target a double-digit growth given the fact that we have got new capacities into our fold. We would be commissioning, we have already commissioned 3.5 million tons this quarter. We will get stabilized by the time we reach January-March. We will have further close to 10 million tons further. New capacities close to 10 million tons further will get commissioned as we move along. On the base of fiscal 2025, we will do a double-digit growth, definitely.
Sure. Sir, my second question is on your finance cost. Again, at the control level, has come down meaningfully. Is there scope for that to come down more? Has the interest rate been reset across the board? How should we look at that also?
There's one more reset which has already—the last announcement has not yet come in. The last RBI rate cut which happened has not yet come in. I believe there could be one or two more rate cuts within the Indian interest rates, which will benefit us.
Sure. Very interesting, sir.
My average cost of borrowing would be 7%.
Down 7% for the previous quarter.
Yeah. For the previous quarter, it was 7%. It will come down as this 7% will come down with the rate cuts which have already been announced and further, if at all anything happens.
Sure, sir. Thank you.
Pulkit, we have also been able to reprice, refinance. The India Cements borrowings also, they are also getting rated AAA with more or less the same kind of rate. Same rate.
Sure, sir. Got that. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from Ashish Jain from Macquarie. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good evening. Sir, first question, this double-digit growth you spoke about in fiscal 2026, is with KSORAM in the base or that is without KSORAM in the base?
With KSORAM in the base.
Okay. Okay.
We will, Ashish is not so sure. He will grow higher than the industry.
No, there's no doubt on that. Because KSORAM can make a big difference to that. That's why I'm asking.
Yeah, yeah. Not really. Ashish, not really because KSORAM is 14 million tons, and out of our 180 today—186. Out of 186 million tons, it's less than 8% or 9% of our total capacity. It will not make too much of an impact. We'll still be able to grow.
Okay. Okay. Got it.
The most important thing is to make an investment.
It'll generate returns?
Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.
Yeah. Sir, secondly, just on capacity, I have two questions. One is when we—if I go back three, four years when we first spoke about this 200 million ton target by 2030, if I remember right, now we have achieved that, or we will achieve it much, much ahead of 2030. So how would you be able to put a number to capacity that we can think, let's say, in the following three, four, five years? Because at some point of time, shall we start thinking that there's enough capacity in the industry and that can reflect in our expansion, or do you think we are far away?
Let me give you a bigger picture answer. All of us know India requires a lot of growth. A lot of cement is required as yet. We are, while we call ourselves the fourth largest economy, but look at Japan's infrastructure and look at our infrastructure and everything else that is around infrastructure. There is a huge amount of growth potential. I think next 10years -15 years, and I'll request—once I finish, I'll request Jhanwarji also to give his input. There is a long way that India will keep seeing growth. As long as India keeps seeing growth, I do not have a number, but we will grow in line with India's growth requirements of cement. Yes, we might reach a saturation point in the distant future. Jhanwarji, you want to add?
Yes.
Jamarji, sorry. Sorry. If I can just add one—I'm very sorry to intervene. Sir, I just want to add one more point. Sir, because we have heard this for many, many years, and some of it has played out also in terms of growth. I am just struggling to understand why cement growth is so volatile. Let's say, even 4Q, if it was 4.3% growth, why are we not seeing that prolonged period of high single-digit growth or, let's say, 7-8% growth at least?
Ashish, we can have a long discussion offline to understand what happens in the industry. There are multiple factors. Last year, what happened? And a year before last year, fiscal 2024, we saw double-digit growth after COVID, coming out of COVID. The industry saw double-digit growth year after year. Fiscal 2025 had its own challenges. If I recall, fiscal 2017 had its own challenges because GST was introduced or something. Then RERA was introduced. There have been structural changes in the economy which have had their share of impact on demand. Structurally, as you see, the number of kilometers of road that need to be done in India is humongous. Once the infrastructure growth comes, the big incentive is all around the development of newer town cities, social infrastructure, commercial spaces, etc., which will get developed. Jhanwarji?
Yeah. That's what I was about to say. Fundamentally, even if we see the demand model or the growth model in any country, actually, once the infrastructure, the first trigger is infrastructure growth, actually. Once the infrastructure growth happens, then as Atul said just now, it is the housing, social infrastructure, new cities coming. There would be a lot of migration of people moving from cities to the suburb and the distant places because the infrastructure becomes very efficient for commuting from one place to another. We believe it is going to follow at some point of time once we reach reasonably good infrastructure. Number two, because just now, I said, and Atul also explained, we are very clear that the country has a huge potential for the overall economy to grow, and cement is a basic building block. We would definitely like to partner, actually, in this growth journey.
I don't see, personally at least, this growth is going to taper down at least in the next one decade, actually. Nobody knows how. You must have seen that recently, the day before yesterday, even our road and surface minister, Mr. Gadkari, also said that now we are targeting 100 km per day rather than 35 years , we have challenges in the country in terms of land acquisition, slow avoid of contracts, executions, and so on. I think government is conscious about it and speeding up all infrastructure projects and so on. Huge potential.
Let me delve into one project example, Badhavan Port. It is 300 million ton cargo handling capacity. Do you know what is the peak cargo handling by JNPT? Less than 100 million tons, correct? Yeah, somewhere around that d ata. Just imagine it is a 76 billion, forgetting the value of the project, huge project. While it consumes cement, but the ancillary industry growth that takes place, the employment opportunities, the increase in housing income that takes place opens up the floodgates of growth for companies like us. There are going to be several such projects in the country. I think we will be busy producing and selling cement.
Okay. Sir, just a last question on fuel, will we see further increase or we are fine versus?
No, no. I think we'll see declines now. I think it's so different in the— Range bound, actually.
Yeah. Not really increasing.
This is one element which we do not have control on. Some global event takes place and prices go higher, which will impact consumption going forward. As of now, as Jhanwarji also mentioned, range bound or it should not go up. Let me put it this way.
Okay. Okay. Great. Thank you so much.
Thanks, Ashish. Hey, I can't hear you.
Hello?
Yeah. Hi, Ritesh. Hi, Ritesh.
Yeah. Hi. Hi, sir. A couple of questions. Sir, first is there's—
[audio distortion] my number, Ritesh?
[crosstalk] No, no, sir. It's pretty much in line. Thanks for that. Sir, a couple of questions. First is intercompany elimination has been mentioned by value and model. How should we read into this and how should we look at this number going forward?
Intercompany elimination is between UltraTech and IC&L [guess] now, right Al[guess]?
[Unknown Speaker] RMC.
Sorry. This is between cement, which is supplied to our own captive consumption for RMC. This is going to be part of life. On a INR 20,000 crore of revenue, this quarter is about INR 500 crore. On a current scale of operation, you can factor in a INR 500 crore number because we are growing our RMCs. We are growing our BPD. Construction chemicals. We are growing organically on our projects where we consume our own cement. That elimination has to be done.
Okay. Sir, my second question is you did indicate on pricing trends, but wouldn't it be possible for you to give some color on the trade and non-trade price gap, specifically in South, given what we understand that the price increases on the non-trade side have been significantly sharp versus trade?
I always ask you guys to help me with this information. You know it better than I do.
Okay. Sir, I'll move to the third question. Sir, how should one link Birla Pivot to UltraTech? How are the linkages between the two entities? And does UltraTech benefit out of Birla Pivot by any means?
No, not really.
Not really. Only sometimes. If they use our network at times, actually, then it's—
What is called network?
Yeah.
They have taken over that business yet?
Cement and our product, a ny other product that we manufacture under our Building Products Division, we deal with it directly. They are selling any other product.
Directly?
Directly.
Okay. Sir, any update on wires and cables?
Major orders have already been placed. Long lead items, people have started joining. Land lease is being finalized. They're looking at some locations in Gujarat. Last I checked, we are on track. We'll remain within our CAPEX plan of INR 1,800 crore. We might have some savings only on that CAPEX plan.
Sure. Sir, just last one question. Sir, any specific plan you would like to lay out on RMC, given competition is actually moving quite quickly? I'm referring to the unlisted player who is there in the marketplace.
As my late Chairman once said, Mr. Ajith Tubella, we are not afraid of the competition. Let the competition be afraid of us. That is a very serious statement. I think we are focused on our growth. We know that RMC will keep growing. We are already now, how many plants now? We have crossed the 400 mark this year. We will keep growing. Ritesh, you know that they are all margin accretive, which means over and above the EBITDA they generate a contribution.
Sure. Thank you so much for the answers. Thank you.
Thank you. Leo, we can't hear you at all. I don't know where your phone is. Please adjust your mic, Leo.
Before we move to the next question, we request participants to please limit their questions to two per participant. The next question is from Naveen Rameshwar [guess] from ITS Security. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. My question was on demand. If I adjust to the volumes of India Cements, I think organically our volume growth is just 2%. I believe UltraTech grows much higher than the industry. I just wanted to understand, is it that the growth has been—
Go ahead. Naveen, go ahead. Sorry.
Yeah. So my question is, is this observation correct in the first place? And if the industry is nearly flat in Q1, we are into monsoon season, so then what gives the confidence of a 7-8% growth for the full year? Thanks.
Okay. Naveen, let me answer the second part of the question first. More than 40%—40-45% of demand for cement in the country is in the last quarter. January-March is the biggest quarter. Second point to make is cement is very, very seasonal in India. The real season for cement starts post festivals, post Diwali, then post Diwali, actually. When labor starts returning, it is effectively—I do not remember when Diwali is this year, but let's say post middle of November till the heat wave starts setting in. The real season is November to April or May. That is the real season for cement. I believe, yes, we will grow much more rapidly in the subsequent quarters. As to your point on some numbers that you were looking at, I do not think so. That is a number. Pulkit had asked me this question on the call.
I do not have the ability to split hair between what is KSORAM sale because now it is all part of our system integrated. There is one billing mechanism. Excluding The India Cements Limited.
It's simple arithmetic. I don't see a reason of any confusion, actually. It's a very simple arithmetic. From a domestic volume, I simply reduce India Cements. And to last year's domestic volume, I simply add KSORAM. That's a 2% growth that I'm getting.
No. Firstly, I don't like your aggressive tone. Secondly, the way to look at it is if I look at UltraTech brand, because as I mentioned, we have been rapidly rebranding UltraTech, which has grown 6.5%. I know there will be some amount of jigsaw puzzle in our sales mix because what we will focus on is UltraTech brand sales, which has actually grown 6.5%. Whichever way you want to cut it, that's the real number.
Yeah. I think because the entire focus is on the sales, sometimes it depends on which plant is more accretive in terms of the delivered cost and from where the dispatches are to be made. It is really difficult to differentiate, actually, the plant-wise kind of thing. The brand has grown by 6.5%.
Great. Great. If I may just ask a second question, lead distance is very happy to see a lead distance reduction from 384 in the previous quarter to 370, as we say. I am just trying to see the savings in actual numbers in the sense 14 km of sequential savings. Even if I assume ballpark INR 3 per ton per kilometer, even then that is almost over INR 40 per ton of sequential savings. I am not able to see that in the numbers. Am I missing anything here? Thanks.
What is missing?
Reduction in lead distance not reflecting in the statistics.
No. So, in our graph that we show you, 1,182 - 1,158.
INR 24.
This is a INR 24 saving which is visible. My accounting might not be as aligned and linear with the costing. That's the only answer I would have. The fact is, yes, the lead distance has gone down. If I do the math of PTPK, it should reflect. Besides the lead distance, there are lots of other costs which are attached. Let's say a handling cost, warehousing cost. Everything would get added in my logistics cost, forwarding cost, agents involved. There will be lots of other elements of cost involved. Naveen, maybe I don't think mathematically it will stack up. You will have a INR 40 benefit. There's a railroad. Jamarji rightly pointed out, there's a railroad mix also. Rail is 40% lower than road cost. Lots of moving parts to this. As I said, quarter on quarter, last time also I had mentioned, and we disclosed transparently.
Our savings due to all these efforts. At the end of the year, Naveen, we will definitely show the outcome. Quarter to quarter, next quarter, you never know. The lead might go up. It's not necessary. 370 could become 371, 372, or it could fall further. My hunch is it will fall further because as the network of number of plants is increasing, our lead distance will come down.
Thank you. The next question is from Satyadeep Jain from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you. Mr. Daga, first question on India Cements. Then second was UBS. The India Cements, I just wanted to understand. I think you are mentioning that adjusted for marketing spend, maybe adjusted a bit towards INR 458 per ton. Last quarter, you mentioned. Southern plants, typically for UltraTech, would be lower a bit per ton given lower pricing historically. Given where pricing is, I just want to understand the profitability gap between India Cements and rest of UltraTech plants in south, maybe ballpark directionally. How do you plan to bridge that gap? We see you have pre-heater, WHRS. How would maybe just some ballpark direction number?
So. Yeah. There are two ways. This is a good question, Satyadeep. The UltraTech brand being generated from ICL plants gets the same price, barring that INR 10 which I am keeping in UltraTech. Cost of production of that output might still be higher because of the inefficiencies that exist. As we progress, fiscal 2028, the costs also will get aligned. Prices will also be aligned. We will have parity between the profitability of ICL plants or UltraTech existing cement plants in the southern markets. Jhanwarji?
Yeah. As far as the cost side is concerned, once we carry out this CAPEX plan, actually, and once it is completed, then, compared to UltraTech, I would say it would be almost near to the UltraTech level, subject to some structural differences at the plant-to-plant level because even despite the modification, you may not be able to reach at UltraTech level plants because there are some plants at UltraTech that are the most modern and recently constructed plants. I think we would be, by and large, it could be very well aligned with UltraTech. Not a very big difference where we should have anybody. That's what I think.
Satyadeep, we'll start CAPEX work. I will announce it next quarter. We have not yet completed stitching the program. Next quarter, we start, which is middle of 2025-2026, and 2027, and we will hopefully complete. In first quarter of 2028, April-June 2027, you will start seeing the benefits in the P&L of ICL.
Satyadeep, in my marketing, this is twofold. One, these are old assets. I understand these are all integrated. There is no concept of split grinding generally. Also, in the southern part of Kerala, if you see Koromantu brand is so strong, I'm not sure if it is possible to completely go with UltraTech given the strong recall there. Given all these, you think 100% of grinding can move to UltraTech? Given the asset base itself, the way it was structured earlier with all the pre-heater and WHRS, you can achieve almost parity with UltraTech on all these efficiencies. That's just trying to understand that.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Let me give you the flavor. We have done already the deep dive, actually putting number of people, teams, etc., identified plant by plant, line by line up, what modifications have to be done. This modification will take us to at what level in terms of heat consumption, power consumption. That is why with the confidence or with the comfort I'm saying, we would be in the ballpark number of about at least 90%. With UltraTech level because we don't have the very system practically anywhere except one plant and so on. We don't have the alternate fuel usage, actually. We need to optimize in terms of pre-tire to improve the heat efficiency and so on.
I don't think there is any, if I may say honestly, it's any worry to bring those plants at the, in the range of UltraTech, not at the 100% at the level of UltraTech. It's a matter of only time. It may take another one and a half year to age associate max the two years time, actually.
Satyadeep, two more points to address. You mentioned the strength of the existing brand of ICL in deep down south. We will evaluate. As I said, that is why we have kept time in hand to do the integration of our brand. If required, that will continue. If the markets convert, it will transition into UltraTech. Its jury is still out. Second point, you mentioned about split grinding units that they do not have as compared to the way the UltraTech network is operating. The way we work, it is on a total delivered cost. We have our own network of grinding units from UltraTech, which will be able to share their capacities. Ultimately, we work on a total delivered cost basis. That is the reason.
That is why, again, going back to the questions which were raised earlier on the call, beyond the point, it becomes difficult for us to split hair. Just because we are operating at total delivered cost, by the end of fiscal 2027, take a guess, we will be having a network of physically 82 plant locations in the country and rising. South itself, we will be about 60 million tons and growing with multiple facilities. We will be able to capitalize on our existing network also. Hope that helps. Thanks.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to participants to please limit your questions to two per participant. The next question is from Chintan Shah from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I have three quick questions, and all three on India Cements. First one is just a clarification of what you mentioned. Basically, the UltraTech rebranding from India Cements, that will be sold to the UltraTech entity. Out of that, we'll retain around 10% back or 200% that we keep. The rest of it will be retained in India Cements.
That's correct.
That's correct, right? Okay. Okay. The second and the third one are more strategic. Firstly, what is the intent with respect to India Cements? I mean, considering the synergies and integration, would we at some point be looking to merge this with UltraTech, or would we open the case and get it as a separate entity? What would be the rationale if we want to keep it a separate entity? That's the second question. The third one is [crosstalk]
Let me finish the second question. As of now, we do not know which side we will move. First and foremost, it is very important for us to clean up The India Cements operations, bring it up to speed with the turnaround of the company, bring it up to speed, align people, processes, product, as I mentioned earlier. Then we will take a call on whether to merge or not to merge. We are fully cognizant of a huge amount of stamp duty that would be involved. Why spend money on that? If it is worthwhile, perhaps in 2027 or 2028, actually, we will revisit the decision. As of now, it will continue as a separate entity.
Got it. Understood. That's very clear. Third and the last question is, I mean, in terms of capital allocation, CAPEX, while we highlighted right now, we're focusing on WHRS and AFR. Would there be a consideration or a scope for further deep model networking or brownfield or any sort of expansion in India Cements, or will the savings be more?
There exist opportunities for brownfield expansion in The India Cements also. As I mentioned, we are now getting ready for our phase four of growth of CAPEX. Phase V will also be there where we'll see brownfield opportunities of The India Cements Limited locations getting tapped.
Got it. Perfect. That's very clear answers to all my questions. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you, sir. Just to clarify, sir, when we say we will grow 10% volume growth in FY 2026, this is on 136, 135.8 million ton. That is what we have done at console level in FY25. Yeah?
Okay. Yes, please.
Yeah. I am just trying to clarify on that. We are saying a 10% growth. That means including The India Cements also where maybe we would be doing close to 9, 9.5 million ton. If I remove that, then maybe a 3, 2, 4% kind of a growth would be there if I take a 10% growth.
If you are wanting to do a math check, then do that separately. I am not doing a math right now.
Okay. Got it. Second, sir, in terms of the cost reduction, what we have talked about last time, INR 300 odd, INR 86 we have done in 2025. So that remains intact. By FY2027, we'll be seeing another INR 200-215.
I don't know how much. Whatever we are able to achieve, we will report it. Because as somebody just said, logistics cost is coming down. Nobody has asked me or complimented me on the way clinker conversion factor has gone up. Can you imagine the quantum of gain which the operations have now with a clinker conversion factor of 1.49? It's jumped from 1.44 last quarter. There are lots of efforts, sir, which are happening and which we will report at the end of the year. Month to month, day to day, quarter to quarter, it's next to impossible to measure.
True. True. True. I understand. I was about. Sir, lastly on the CAPEX, if possible for FY 2026 and 2027.
We have close to INR 10,000 crore this year. We'll come back for the next year CAPEX and new course. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from Raashi Chopra from Citigroup. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Sorry, just following up.
Oh, you are still there, Raashi? I thought you wouldn't be there. Yeah.
I'm just following up with a paper question. One is, I don't know if I missed this, but did you give the industry growth number for this quarter? Last quarter, you said was 4%.
No, no, I didn't give it. I didn't give it.
What is it? I mean, what in your estimate would be the growth number?
We'll discuss it tomorrow, Raashi.
Okay. That is one. Second is this tolling arrangement that you have with The India Cements Limited. So when I'm trying to look at the India EBITDA per ton, that is basically standalone plus UltraTech, is there any sort of intercompany elimination that I need to take?
Which means including India Cements operations. Is that what you're looking at?
I'll put it, yeah, I'll ask you differently. Last quarter, the India EBITDA per ton was INR 1,175 in the fourth quarter. Is that number INR 1,230 now in this quarter?
What is 1,135 with India Cements or without India Cements? That will be 1,200 bucks.
[audio distortion] include as well.
Just one second. How much is it?
I'm talking about the India EBITDA, India EBITDA per ton [audio distortion].
India EBITDA per ton. I will give it to you if not on the call, then later on. Not immediately.
Okay. Okay. No problem.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. We'll take that as the last question on behalf of UltraTech Cement Limited. That concludes the conference. Thank you for joining us, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect your lines.
Thank you.