UltraTech Cement Limited (NSE:ULTRACEMCO)
India flag India · Delayed Price · Currency is INR
11,822
-188 (-1.57%)
Apr 28, 2026, 3:30 PM IST
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Q2 22/23

Oct 19, 2022

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q2 FY23 earnings conference call of UltraTech Cement Limited. We must remind you that the discussion on today's call may include certain forward-looking statements and must be therefore viewed in conjunction with the risk that the company faces. The company assumes no responsibility to update, amend, modify or revise any forward-looking statement on the basis of any subsequent development, information or events or otherwise. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. If you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. We now hand the conference over to Mr. Atul Daga, Executive Director and CFO of the company.

Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Daga.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Thank you so much. Good evening and a very warm welcome to all of you to this earnings call of UltraTech Cement. As was expected, this quarter has not been good for the industry as well as ourselves alike. Lots of things happened which went not in favor of the industry, which are clearly reflected in our numbers as well. Let me talk about all the negatives first, and there is lots of good things also to talk about. Firstly, the monsoons. As you are already seeing, everybody is aware, monsoons have been so erratic. It seems to be a dramatic ecological change that is taking place in the country. Excessive monsoons have been there almost all parts of the country except maybe some areas like Tamil Nadu or Assam and Meghalaya, which saw lesser rains.

Delayed exit of monsoons has been causing some amount of pressure on cement consumption and construction activity. It remains to be seen how the delayed exit of monsoons will impact the crops. We'll have to wait and watch. Cost is the next item which I would want to touch upon. As I had mentioned in the call during the last quarter, the costs are still elevated and continue to remain high, primarily driven by the rising prices of fuel. There was a brief period of merriment when petcoke prices dropped to $170, and everybody thought that this reduction is permanent. I'm sure many players interested in petcoke would have booked some contracts between $170-$190. Today, as of yesterday, in fact, the prices of petcoke are back to $205+.

There was some news about Venezuelan supply as well. However, we were advised not to venture into Venezuela supplies due to the U.S. sanctions. Coal is stuck around $300-$350. Softened up a bit, but still very high. Not yet worth buying for most of the cement players as there is significant arbitrage in petcoke. A few years ago it used to be opposite. Petcoke was expensive as compared to coal. In our analysis, the geopolitical situation continues to be the driver for determining the costs or the trends or the direction in which the fuel costs will move. China is always the sleeping giant. Today the Chinese economy is down, but I'm sure China will revive open up at some point or the other.

Europe has started its coal-fired engines because of the ongoing war in Europe, in the Russia-Ukraine war, which is also sucking up a lot of coal supplies. Our view is that fuel costs will remain high due to the ongoing geopolitical scenario. Albeit, we have seen the worst on coal and petcoke prices. Hopefully, they should not go up further. Crude has softened a bit, but we'll have to wait till the government decides to pass on the benefit to industrial consumers. We have to wait and see if the manner in which it is passed on and how much is passed on. During this quarter, UltraTech has completed shutdown work on almost 19 of its kilns out of the total 43. 40 kilns?

Operator

Forty-three.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Out of the total 43 kilns. Maintenance costs have been higher because of inflationary pressure on refractory brick costs and other maintenance costs. Prices were under pressure towards the end of May 2022, and they saw a continuous slide. Monsoons don't see any opportunity in increasing prices. However, the first available opportunity that the industry saw, I believe, in pockets where demand has been good, price increase will have been attempted. Some price increases have settled, some have not settled in the country. Typical of the Indian cyclical cement industry, the season for cement starts after the festive season is over, which is after Diwali.

Diwali ends 24th and maybe 25th of this month, and you should start seeing improvement in the market sentiment on all factors after that only. One negative aspect about the rising prices of fuel is large cash flows are getting blocked in costlier working capital. After enjoying a long run of negative working capital, we had no choice but to give up the gains with rising costs and identifying pockets of opportunities to buy cheaper fuel. We have consciously increased our inventories, which has resulted in increase in our working capital. However, I am confident that in the next months as volumes go up, as the cost of purchase of fuel stabilizes, our working capital will go back into the negative working capital zone before the end of this fiscal year.

There is no reason why the industry will not take prices up since the margins are continuously under pressure. Let me now talk about the positive side. Demand has been good, and that is the most important factor, most heartwarming factor from our perspective. On an increased capacity, we increased about 4.5 million tons of capacity Y-o-Y. On an increased capacity, our domestic volumes have grown about 10%. This could have been higher, but for the heavy monsoons. Improvement in capacities bodes well for profitability and cash flows. Good capacity utilization is the key. Good capacity utilization would easily help increase prices. This year and the next year definitely can be delivering a double-digit growth. Why? Well, because the first half itself, at UltraTech, we have recorded about an average of 14% growth despite a weak monsoon quarter.

As you are all aware, demand starts picking up post-November and March is a peak period. Definitely we should be able to deliver double-digit growth this year and next year as well. During the quarter, we have commissioned about 32 megawatts of renewable energy, taking the total to 318 megawatts, which makes it 5.6% of our total power consumption. An additional five-megawatt WHRS was also commissioned. Birla White continues to strengthen its position in the industry. Pudi expansion plan, Pudi expansion that we had undertaken from 6.8. What was our capacity? four lakh tons of additional capacity has been commissioned. It's under trial runs now. four lakh has been commissioned. It's under trial production.

We hope to commercialize the plant before the end of this month or mid-November.

Rajesh Kumar Ravi
SVP of Institutional Equities, HDFC Securities

Can I ask one thing?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Imports from Ras Al Khaimah Co. for White Cement & Construction Materials will further strengthen the brand presence in the country. I believe the first shipment will happen during this quarter. We have been steadily growing our construction chemicals business, which recorded revenues of about INR 132 crore, up from INR 82 crore last year. On our growth plans, we are again ready to ride the high demand cycle with additional capacity getting commissioned. During the reported period, we commissioned Dalla brownfield expansion of 1.3 million tons, ending this quarter at 115.85 million tons of capacity. Pali greenfield plant and Dhar brownfield expansion is almost ready to roll out production, and we should see commissioning of these plants in the October-December quarter.

We are on course, on track with 131.25 million tons of capacity by the end of March 2022, which will be fully available for the next fiscal year to meet the rising demand and generate additional cash flows for the company and the shareholders. All this capacity expansion is being met out of internal accruals, and this year we expect cash outflow on CapEx of anywhere between INR 6,000 crores-INR 7,000 crores. We have already spent in the first half what I think INR 2,900-INR 3,000 crores on CapEx. The phase two expansion of 22.6 million tons, which was announced last quarter. Work has commenced. Almost INR 500 crores of spending has taken place on advanced payments, labor mobilization.

Some sites civil work has already started. This is going to take us to our next milestone of 153 million tons of capacity by 2025-2026. A quick update on ESG. We continue to focus on reducing CO2 emissions with several collaborations and global ties. Four of our key cement products have been granted environmental product declaration. It's called EPD. This is a key step in our endeavor to drive sustainability in our business with a life cycle approach. With this, UltraTech's green product portfolio includes more than 70 GreenPro certified products. We continue our focus on improving our blending ratios. This quarter, yet again, we have gone up to 1.42-43?

Rajesh Kumar Ravi
SVP of Institutional Equities, HDFC Securities

One.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Well, 1.41 as our conversion ratio. Blended cement continues to rise. Blended cement has reached about 71%, which helps us meet our carbon emission targets to reduce our carbon emissions. In the end, I'll conclude by saying that I believe cement is going to see a good time in the next few years, and for which UltraTech is very well prepared. Thank you, and over to you for questions.

Operator

Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are encouraged to use handsets when asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Sumangal Nevatia from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.

Sumangal Nevatia
Analyst, Kotak Securities

Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is with respect to the energy cost. I missed the opening remarks. If you see both the coal and petcoke have been quite volatile and corrected from the peak sharply but again has started increasing. If you could just elaborate, I mean, how do we see on consumption basis, are power and fuel costs shaping up in the next two quarters?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Well, we believe that this quarter, the July-September quarter was a peak cost, and we should start seeing marginal reduction in our consumption costs in the next two quarters.

Sumangal Nevatia
Analyst, Kotak Securities

Okay. I mean, okay. Is it possible to quantify, sir?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

No.

Sumangal Nevatia
Analyst, Kotak Securities

Okay. Generally, I mean, how many days of inventory are we carrying? I mean, are we

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Normal norm is about 45 days. This time we have consciously gone up to 55 days. That is why I had spelled out our working capital increase also taking place.

Sumangal Nevatia
Analyst, Kotak Securities

Understood. That's helpful. On the iron cost, we recommend and also the index you've shared on the fly ash, it's up by 9% quarter-on-quarter, which is unusual. Is it possible to share, I mean, what sort of inflation are you seeing in other items like slag, gypsum, and also is this seasonal one-off spike or-

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Sumangal, this is one-off. What happens is that if there is a power plant shutdown, then you have to source our fly ash from a next available power plant which will be obviously further away. So the transportation cost goes up. There is no pattern that you can establish accordingly on fly ash costs.

Sumangal Nevatia
Analyst, Kotak Securities

Okay. Understood. Just one last broad question on the overall M&A. There are a lot of media reports on the JSW, India Cements and few regional players in east and west. I mean, how do we see, sir, the M&A activity shaping up in the sector? Given your market share, what sort of inorganic growth appetite do you see for UltraTech?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

All I can share with you is to allay the confusion in minds of several people that given our size, we will get restricted on consolidation. The geography is wide open for UltraTech to consolidate through inorganic routes also. We, as and when the opportunity surfaces in any part of the country, we will examine it.

Sumangal Nevatia
Analyst, Kotak Securities

Okay. All right. Thank you, Mr. Daga, and all the best.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Amit Murarka from Axis Capital Limited. Please go ahead.

Amit Murarka
Executive Director, Axis Capital Limited

Yeah. Hi. Good afternoon, Mr. Daga. Just on the cost side, like, in the presentation, it's mentioned that power fuel cost was $200. The fuel was $200 per ton. This includes the domestic coal sourcing as well, or this is the imported fuel cost?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

This is imported fuel cost.

Amit Murarka
Executive Director, Axis Capital Limited

Okay.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Coal for us is a very small percentage.

Operator

7%-8%.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

7%-8% only.

Amit Murarka
Executive Director, Axis Capital Limited

Okay. Last time in the last call, you had mentioned that there were some cargos of Russian coal and all which you've taken. Was that there in this quarter and the sourcing is continuing as of now?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yes. It has started getting into consumption in this quarter. It was an opportunistic trade, so in case something again surfaces, we will examine it.

Amit Murarka
Executive Director, Axis Capital Limited

Okay. Now, like, the spot prices, could you just shed some light on that? Like, what is the spot price of coke? Is it closer to, like, $200 or it's gone beyond that also then?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

It's beyond $200 now. I mentioned on the call around $205.

Amit Murarka
Executive Director, Axis Capital Limited

Okay. I missed that. Okay, fine. That's all. Yeah. I'll come back in touch.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please go ahead.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Yeah, hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Couple of questions. Sir, first one is, you indicated you are open to inorganic growth. Sir, how should we look at it? What are the things that you look at, which will make us attract the...

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

It is a very weird question. Our fundamental premise for evaluating any asset is a profitable growth opportunity. I'll pay a price on which I am able to generate return for shareholders. We will buy an asset where we can increase our market presence. I also had mentioned that India is a wide open geography for us as well.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

All right. Sir, if I have to dig one step over here, sir, how would you look at versus the expansion optionality that we have on the table, you have indicated like we are absolutely going full throttle and we have a pipeline which is actually workable. If you look at the incremental ROC versus the optionality that we have on the table, how should one look at that comparative math on incremental ROC?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Incremental ROC on organic, obviously it is time value of money, and you get an organic, inorganic opportunity. You hit the ball, hit the road running. That is the advantage that one would have on inorganic versus organic. It depends on the price that you are paying. Today, organic would be costing a greenfield. Where you start acquiring land also, it will cost $110-$120, give or take. That is how, and if you start investing today, it will take you seven years to put up that capacity. As compared to that, you might pay some premium. You will have to pay a premium over replacement cost, but you also get advantage of seven years of market share and cash flows.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Sure. Sir, my second question is, we have indicated our

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

How many?

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Third. Sir, I have four total, so third question. Sir, we have indicated incremental expansion plans on the capacity side. Just wanted to have your thoughts on what are our plans on distribution, basically incremental railway heads, bulk cement terminals, optimizing fleet to DFC. How should we look at all these 4 variables?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

You know, fleet expansion, we don't own fleet. Our transporters continuously add fleet as and when, wherever it is required. Our transporters who are associated with the organization or with the group for maybe four decades, they will expand their fleet as and when required. Our endeavor is to continuously improve, increase the penetration in terms of dealer network. Today, our channel partners strength would be upwards of 100,000, close to 110,000 channel partners and a continuously increasing number. DFC is opening up. I saw Rajasthan has already started double-stack wagons. Of course, they have not yet been made available for cement, but I think things are opening up.

As for bulk terminal, our expansion footprint is always planned in a manner where if a bulk terminal is required, we will take it into account upfront instead of you know, waiting. For example, in the second phase of growth, we have two bulk terminals already planned. Any future requirement also, bulk terminals will be planned, Grinding Unit. So it will be a split Grinding Unit composition that will come into play. The last point that you mentioned about railway sidings.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Sea freight.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

There's no-

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Railway siding and sea freight.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

And?

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Sea freight.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

See what? See.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Sea.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Sea route. Ocean route. As far as railway sidings are concerned, I think on adding wherever available, whenever available, large number of 260 odd railheads.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Yeah, 260.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yeah, 260+ railheads. It is not top-down target, but operational efficiency improvement plan with which we keep on adding railway sidings. As far as ocean route is concerned, we have our own jetty at our Gujarat plant.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

So-

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Bulk terminals, 279 railway sidings as of now. Bulk terminals along the coastline, there is Mumbai, that is JNPT, then it goes down to Mangalore. Mangalore also, right? Bulk terminal?

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Yes.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Mangalore, Cochin. This is on the coastline. We will look at expanding our network on the eastern side as well. We don't have bulk terminals at the moment, but we look at expanding that network in our II, III phase of growth.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Okay. Sir, just one last question. We have an interesting launch on white cement-based liquid primer.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yes.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Wanted to understand, what is the rationale for it to be in UltraTech and why not Grasim, given the limited understanding it is better, to bundle it with in-house putty. Please correct if I'm wrong. Thank you so much.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yeah, because the raw material is white cement, and all the primer and putty-based products are done by UltraTech, that's why it's here.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Sure, sir. Thank you so much. Wish you good night.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prateek Kumar from Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Prateek Kumar
VP, Jefferies

Hello. Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. My first question is on utilization. You mentioned your overall utilization is around 76%. Can you throw some light on regional utilization?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

I'm sorry?

Prateek Kumar
VP, Jefferies

On regional utilizations, region-wide utilizations.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Region-wide utilization. North was nearly 85%, Central was 70%, East was 90%, West was more than 60%, South was more than 75%.

Prateek Kumar
VP, Jefferies

How much you said for Central?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

For?

Prateek Kumar
VP, Jefferies

Central region, how much you said?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

70%. 70.

Prateek Kumar
VP, Jefferies

Okay. On pricing, overall it appears that we had like around a 2.5% cement realization decline or 2%-3% decline, on a sequential basis. How would that be region-wide?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Region-wise, I think East was the least impacted. North saw a decline. North and Central were the leaders in decline. East was better placed. West was neutral.

Prateek Kumar
VP, Jefferies

Sure. In the presentation you mentioned that there's a postponement of the tenant shutdown.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yeah.

Prateek Kumar
VP, Jefferies

Does that have any specific impact on cost? It's like sort of one-off or?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

The cost, I think my maintenance costs were higher than planned by about INR 80.

Prateek Kumar
VP, Jefferies

Cool.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

By about INR 80 crore. I think it was INR 80 crore, yeah.

Prateek Kumar
VP, Jefferies

I mean, when you say the like for like, basically last year.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

What I mean was that we had planned, original plan as per our annual budget, X number of kilns were planned. We did three more kilns than that in this period. The spending was also higher, partly because of cost of procurement going higher and partly because of additional work that was done.

Prateek Kumar
VP, Jefferies

Last question on your logistics cost. In your presentation you mentioned, diesel price are lower like 4%-5%, but, like for like logistics cost is around 1%. Any change in distance is resulting in lower decline in logistics cost?

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

1% impact to 1% only.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yeah. You know, a diesel cost is not 100% logistics cost.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

50% only.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yeah.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Road.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Quarter-over-quarter. Anything else?

Prateek Kumar
VP, Jefferies

Sure, sir. These are enough questions. Thank you.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pinakin Parekh from JPMorgan. Please go ahead.

Pinakin Parekh
Analyst, JPMorgan

Yeah. Thank you, sir. I just wanted to cover on east market. You did mention-

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yeah. I can't hear you. I can't hear you.

Pinakin Parekh
Analyst, JPMorgan

Sorry to interrupt, but may I request you to move to headset.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yeah. Okay.

Pinakin Parekh
Analyst, JPMorgan

You mentioned that East prices have relatively held up better than the other regions. This is also a region where we would see maximum capacity addition over the next few quarters. The presentation highlights that Chhattisgarh and Odisha had seen de-growth due to sand mining bans. Given this context, how do you see the East market at this point of time? Is demand going to get further impacted because of what's happening in Chhattisgarh and Odisha?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

I believe in East will be the best performing market in terms of demand. That is why, I think nobody is a fool to add additional capacity in that market. There is a big size or big rationale which each player is having to add capacity in that market. This additional capacity will get absorbed in East. Demand will continue to support. I don't want to get into comments on individual states for a point in time because, you know, sand issues are here today, then something else will happen tomorrow. If you look at the underlying demand, underlying capacity utilization in this quarter also, in fact, we had the highest within our regional spread. Our capacity utilization in the East was the highest.

I believe the industry, not just UltraTech, industry players will continue to enjoy a good capacity utilization in East.

Pulkit Verma
Senior Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Sure.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yes.

Pulkit Verma
Senior Analyst, Goldman Sachs

My second question is basically, this is the Q2 where UltraTech's Indian realization seems to have outperformed the peers. We have seen a larger than peer group increase in Q1 , and we have seen a smaller than peer group decline in the second quarter. In your sense, is this because of higher non-trade mix, more premium products or specific regions, you know, aiding this performance?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Should I reveal all my trade secrets to you? Sorry. Value-added products is continuously going up. It's reached more than 18% now. That is one area. We are increasing our blended cement ratios, increasing our trade ratios as well. Everything, and plus there has to be some respect that you should give to UltraTech as a brand. We have historically commanded superior pricing as compared to the other players. I believe UltraTech will continue to do so.

Pulkit Verma
Senior Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Understood. Thank you very much, sir.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pulkit from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Pulkit Verma
Senior Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Sir, thank you for taking my question. Just one question. You mentioned that it is because of you know monsoon having a prolonged impact that demand got impacted. Now, our understanding was that July and August were weak months and September is actually a relatively stronger month. Would that be correct that we have exited September at a much stronger volume print, or is it the other way around based on what you just said? Just to confirm.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

If I remember it right, Pulkit, all the months have shown growth. Yes, I think my colleague confirms September was higher growth as compared to the other months. Each month, we have seen growth.

Pulkit Verma
Senior Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Okay. We can expect that since September it was a stronger month and now that we are off monsoon, hopefully this momentum should continue for us.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Sure. I will just not go with that statement of yours that we are off monsoon. I don't know whether the monsoons are off now or not.

Pulkit Verma
Senior Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Sure, sure. Okay. That was it from my side. Thank you, sir.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Indrajit Agarwal from CLSA. Please go ahead.

Indrajit Agarwal
Analyst, CLSA

Hi, good afternoon. I have two questions. First was on capital allocation going ahead, right? Assuming at 130, 131 million ton capacity, we will be able to sell close to 100 million ton, if not more, and should generate close to INR 10,000 crore of EBITDA annually. Even with INR 6,000 crore of CapEx, we'll have significant amount of free cash flow to make it net cash positive in two years at best go. Any thoughts on other than, you know, organic expansion, return of cash to shareholders or any-

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

That is always there. I think we increased our dividend allocation to the share. Dividend allocation was increased to 20%, year before last. Now we are again looking at growth. As I said, this quarter, whilst we had positive operating cash flow, but net cash after CapEx was negative. We have CapEx happening in 2024, 2025 as well. And a shade of a part of 2026 will also see an extra amount of CapEx. You know, if you'll recall, two years ago or three years ago, our average annual CapEx would be plus minus INR 2,000 crores, and now we are gonna see plus minus INR 6,000 crores for the next two or three years.

Having said that, we are still on course to be, or we are delayed as of now, because of the cash flow being used for CapEx. Otherwise we would have been in a net cash already in this year. I expect net cash to be on the balance sheet towards the end of March 2024.

Indrajit Agarwal
Analyst, CLSA

Sure. This is helpful. Second, like, calendar 2023 will be pre-election year, and if there has to be any, like, significant push up on infra, heavy demand from infra government spending, we should have seen some bit of pre-ordering already. Are you seeing any signs of that yet?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Not yet. I think we expect more than what is happening. I think the good part is that demand is. We have recorded 10% growth in domestic sales in this monsoon, heavier monsoon quarter. Obviously there is a positive direction in which the orders are flowing and cement consumption is happening. I expect it should go up further.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

That buoyancy you see in the rural residential part as well or.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yes. Yes.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

All right. Thank you. Thank you so much for the answers.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Navin Sahadeo from Edelweiss Securities. Please go ahead.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Yeah, good evening, sir.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Hi.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Yeah. Can you hear me? Am I audible?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yes. Yes. Loud and clear.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Right. Thank you so much. The previous questions, thank you for giving the region-wide color on utilization as well as realization. Is it possible to get some comment on profitability? For example, your average per ton was more like INR 800.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Mm-hmm.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Is it possible to get which regions are a little more profitable than these and others lag around?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

I don't have that at the moment.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Very broadly. I know numbers.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

You know, if I look at the prices, so then obviously South would be the leader in profitability followed by West and North catches up along with East is of course yeah yeah at the last step in terms of profitability. Central and North would be up behind South and West.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Got it. Thank you. This is helpful. Sir, my second question then was about your fuel mix. Presentation says 40% petcoke. I think you also mentioned imported coal is 7%-8%, if I heard that correctly.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Domestic coal is 7%-8%.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Okay. If you could just give me the overall fuel mix, please, both in the kilns and power plants.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Just one second. Power. What number? Indigenous coal 15%, imported coal 46%.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Okay. Okay, I get it.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

One second. TPP versus kiln.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Yeah.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

I should look at kiln separately. Kiln, indigenous coal in kiln was 5%, imported coal was 50%, petcoke was 3%, alternate fuel was about 5.2%. That's in the kiln.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Understood. The earlier number was for TPP, the 46%?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

We don't have TPP separately. The hybrid number with TPP plus kiln. Is there TPP? One second, it is there. TPP, indigenous coal 56%, imported coal 29%, petcoke 5%, others 10%. Midnight, which is essentially an alternate fuel.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Sir, just staying on this kiln bit, because you mentioned that petcoke is far more like, you know, favorable in terms of cost. The imported coal that you are using is at par to that cost because of better sourcing or is it conscious that we don't want to go higher on the petcoke consumption front?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

No, we have to balance the petcoke coal mix and our coal procurement is far more efficient than anybody else's.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Yeah, it still is higher than petcoke on a landed basis, even now, right? Are we looking at increasing petcoke considerably from 40% currently or it will still this is what max it is?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

It can go up to 50%-60%.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Okay. Which basically then means that if this mix is changing, Q3 can see a very meaningful decline in the cost? I mean, of course, spot prices are higher.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Cost will come down for Q3.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Before it takes up again because.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Huh?

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Before it takes up again because spot prices are.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Navin, we cannot really start annualizing spot prices. On our game plan, we will deliver lower costs this quarter and lower costs next quarter.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Understood. Just my last question. You mentioned working capital as the prime reason. If, I mean, you know, for that increase in debt, net debt position. Given that these fuel prices are again sort of flattening out maybe say or going up, is it fair to say that this working capital funds will stay locked even for March or that would still,

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

No, I think again, I had mentioned. I would have requested you to listen to my commentary more carefully. We would get into a negative working capital zone before the end of March. With volumes going up, will be one big driver for more cash collections takes place with higher volumes. Inventories we have now reached about 54 days, 54 or 55 days. By the end of March, we will come down to our normal level of 45 days. That will release cash. Cost of purchase will be lower as of now. Nobody knows how prices will actually pan out. Our planning is to release working capital cash by March for sure.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

No, great. I did hear your comment. I was just confirming because fuel prices are wherever they are today.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

I mean, that's today, yeah.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Right.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

There was a time when petcoke was $170, and everybody started analyzing it. That was not the right thing to do.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Right.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

We'll have to re-

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Right.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

This is the most unpredictable times that we are going through.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Sure, sure. Just one last confirmation. Would you think you have spent about close to INR 3,000 crore in CapEx so far in three years?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

First half, yes.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Because I'm just looking at your balance sheet and the capital work in progress or even total property, plant, and equipment. These numbers are up like INR 800 crore odd each, which is INR 1,600 crore. Just trying to understand.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

lot of advance would be there. That is one point which I can think of. Advance also will be CWIP, right?

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Yes. No, capital advances are reported separately.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Capital advances also you need to add, but I don't know what the accounting issue is. I can get an explanation sent to you separately.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Sure. That would be really helpful. Thank you so much for answering and all the best.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Thanks, Navin.

Navin Sahadeo
Analyst, Edelweiss Financial Services Limited

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashish Jain from Macquarie. Please go ahead.

Ashish Jain
Analyst, Macquarie Group

Hi, sir. Good evening. Firstly, on coal, I mean, you made a comment that, you know, petcoke will go to like 50-60%. You know, given the current petcoke and coal prices, ideally we should be going to 70-80% petcoke, right? Is there anything constraining us on that front?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

There are technical constraints. That's all I know, that there are technical constraints. In the earlier days when petcoke was, you know, darling of the industry, those days also we had tested and we reached about 70%-78% peak. There is some issue with blending. You know, limestone from mine to mine has different qualities because of which you cannot mix 100% petcoke. Second point would be availability. As and when petcoke is available, one would pick up shipments of petcoke.

Ashish Jain
Analyst, Macquarie Group

Right. Okay. Got it. Secondly, you know, in terms of the from let's say growth plans outside, you know, the organic plans that we have, if we have to explore M&A, like any specific region, you know, where both we are interested and we will not even face regulatory issues in terms of, you know, our market share and those kind of stuff, can you point where are strategic-

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

I'm interested in India for organic opportunities. I will not have regulatory issues in any geography in the country.

Ashish Jain
Analyst, Macquarie Group

Okay. Got it.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

As of, at this stage, where we are, I don't know.

Ashish Jain
Analyst, Macquarie Group

Right.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

five years, six years later.

Ashish Jain
Analyst, Macquarie Group

Right. Okay. Got it. Lastly, just a housekeeping question.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

I think we have evaluated through all the lenses that the regulators look at and what is the requirement. We are well within the norms.

Ashish Jain
Analyst, Macquarie Group

Right. Just a couple of operational questions. One, what was the share of blended cement this quarter, sorry, trade cement this quarter?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Trade was 68%.

Ashish Jain
Analyst, Macquarie Group

Okay. Secondly, you know, spoke about the chemical business revenues, which is crossed INR 100 crore this time. In our segmentation, where do we put that? Is it in gray cement or it's in others?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Very small, less than 10%. It has not less than 1%. Yeah. There's no segmentation.

Ashish Jain
Analyst, Macquarie Group

No, no.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

We don't get.

Ashish Jain
Analyst, Macquarie Group

Yeah. I know that.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

It is part of cement.

Ashish Jain
Analyst, Macquarie Group

What I meant was.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Part of cement only, Ashish.

Ashish Jain
Analyst, Macquarie Group

Part of cement. Okay. Got it. Thank you so much, sir.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Thank you, Ashish.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Girish Choudhary from Spark Capital. Please go ahead.

Girish Choudhary
Analyst, Spark Capital

Yeah. Hi. Thanks for taking my question. Firstly, would like to get your sense on the industry's supply dynamics. Are you worried of a potential buildup or a surprise in the overall supply? With also the new entrants infusing significant amount of money and some of the other larger players having a strong balance sheet. Just wanted to get your sense on the supply dynamics. That's the first one.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

My guess is that all the supply which comes in easily.

Girish Choudhary
Analyst, Spark Capital

Okay.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Because you see India as a story will show you much higher growth as compared to any other market because there's a huge amount of development required. There's huge amount of housing required. That's, you know, it's a no-brainer statement which I'm making. Yeah, India will see a huge amount of cement consumption happening for a few years you know in the next few years. Few years can be 10 years, more than 10 years. That I don't know. As of now, it's still a very long distance away when India also reaches a saturation point and growth tapers down. As long as there's growth potential, additional capacity will get absorbed.

One more point one needs to keep in mind that total capacity that one looks at is a myth because there are lots of capacities which are non-operational, lots of capacities which are inefficient or shut. Effective capacity, available capacity is lower than the nameplate capacity that you might be tracking.

Girish Choudhary
Analyst, Spark Capital

Got it. Fair enough. Secondly, if I look at your phase one and phase two capacity addition can roughly still appear around 50% in terms of addition. West is a region which is seeing very low capacity, roughly around 1.8. Any reasons why a lower addition here? Is it to do with reserves or utilizations? Or you're looking at inorganic-

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

I'm not able to hear you clearly. Which region you picked up as low addition?

Girish Choudhary
Analyst, Spark Capital

I think west. If you look at west, you're adding only 1.8 million tons. Between phase one and phase II.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

West is more GU, no?

Girish Choudhary
Analyst, Spark Capital

Yeah. You're just adding, yeah.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yeah. Mine is not a constraint and, you know, west luckily we have coastal plants so I can bring limestone from the Middle East in case of. Limestone as a resource is not a constraint in the western market. West we have enough capacity available, and we don't put surplus capacity, you know, and create problems for us. We'll put a capacity where we feel that we need additional volumes right now.

Girish Choudhary
Analyst, Spark Capital

Got it. Thank you, sir.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Kumar Ravi from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.

Rajesh Kumar Ravi
SVP of Institutional Equities, HDFC Securities

Yeah. Hi, sir. I don't know if you have already answered this.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

I haven't.

Rajesh Kumar Ravi
SVP of Institutional Equities, HDFC Securities

Hi, sir. Can you talk on the fuel cost on a per kilo cal basis? How was it in Q2 and versus Q1?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

INR 2,489 per million kcal was the cost in Q2.

Rajesh Kumar Ravi
SVP of Institutional Equities, HDFC Securities

Okay.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

as compared to 2,215 in the previous quarter.

Rajesh Kumar Ravi
SVP of Institutional Equities, HDFC Securities

Okay.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

If I go back one year, so Q1, Q2 FY 2022 it was 1,427.

Rajesh Kumar Ravi
SVP of Institutional Equities, HDFC Securities

Okay.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

INR 1,427 has come up to INR 2,489.

Rajesh Kumar Ravi
SVP of Institutional Equities, HDFC Securities

2,489. Okay. Sir, in this quarter, how are the numbers currently in October?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

We'll talk in January.

Rajesh Kumar Ravi
SVP of Institutional Equities, HDFC Securities

That's okay. Directionally, is it coming off?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

What? What is coming off?

Rajesh Kumar Ravi
SVP of Institutional Equities, HDFC Securities

Quarter-on-quarter, do you see this number coming off versus what you saw in Q2?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

You mean fuel cost?

Rajesh Kumar Ravi
SVP of Institutional Equities, HDFC Securities

Yeah, yeah. Fuel cost per kcal.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yeah, yeah. Fuel cost will come off.

Rajesh Kumar Ravi
SVP of Institutional Equities, HDFC Securities

Okay. I think that is all from my end. Thank you.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Thanks, Rajesh.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kamlesh Bagmar from Lotus Asset Managers. Please go ahead.

Kamlesh Bagmar
Analyst, Lotus Asset Managers

Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Just one question on the cost side. Like say going forward, like say in couple of years, what content of cost reduction do you see, like say be it freight side or power and fuel cost?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

About INR 100 a ton would definitely come out of cost reductions minimum.

Kamlesh Bagmar
Analyst, Lotus Asset Managers

On the variable side.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

On the?

Kamlesh Bagmar
Analyst, Lotus Asset Managers

Variable side.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yes. Yes.

Kamlesh Bagmar
Analyst, Lotus Asset Managers

Okay. Sir, like say in the presentation we have mentioned 19.5% as the mix of the renewable power. So is it in terms of the capacity or in terms of the power usage in this quarter?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Consumption.

Kamlesh Bagmar
Analyst, Lotus Asset Managers

Okay.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Actual generation or actual consumption, whatever you wanna call it.

Kamlesh Bagmar
Analyst, Lotus Asset Managers

Okay. Sir, lastly, like, you have 40-odd% share of pet coke. Vis-à-vis imported coal, because this $2,489 looks to be very competitive as compared to what thermal coal prices are. Is it the case that the grade of the imported coal which we are using is also equally competitive as compared to the pet coke?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yeah. Yeah.

Kamlesh Bagmar
Analyst, Lotus Asset Managers

Because like say if it's,

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Because when you get, U.S. coal is very high grade coal.

Kamlesh Bagmar
Analyst, Lotus Asset Managers

6,900, no?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Uh.

Kamlesh Bagmar
Analyst, Lotus Asset Managers

6,900 kcal.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Normally we are not buying RB1.

Kamlesh Bagmar
Analyst, Lotus Asset Managers

Okay. That would be RB2 overall. That's why that is also competitive as compared to. Okay. Great, sir. Thanks a lot.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.

Shravan Shah
VP Research, Dolat Capital

Yeah. Thank you, sir. Sir, what was the lead distance in this quarter?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

What was the lead distance, guys?

Girish Choudhary
Analyst, Spark Capital

428.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

428 km.

Shravan Shah
VP Research, Dolat Capital

Okay. Sir, you mentioned that a regulatory issue will not be there. You have taken care of that in terms of the inorganic expansion. Just trying to further understand for my understanding, in terms of let's say, if you go for let's say Nuvoco acquisition, I'm just giving an example. How do the CCI look at-

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

I don't look at specifics. You can ask a general question if you have.

Shravan Shah
VP Research, Dolat Capital

I'm asking in general in terms of the market share, how the CCI looks at any percentage. What are the broad criteria that the CCI looks at post the acquisition? 10, 15, 20% market share should not be there.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

I think that I will not be able to answer.

Shravan Shah
VP Research, Dolat Capital

Third, just trying to understand in terms of the second phase of expansion in 22.6. How much broadly from that would we be commissioning in FY 2024?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Maybe INR 3 million or INR 4 million.

Shravan Shah
VP Research, Dolat Capital

Okay. Raised mostly by March of FY 2025.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

five. Some might go into 2026 also. Fiscal 2026.

Shravan Shah
VP Research, Dolat Capital

Okay.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Between first half of 25, 26.

Shravan Shah
VP Research, Dolat Capital

Okay. Got it. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sanjay Nandi from Ratnabali Investment. Please go ahead.

Sanjay Nandi
Equity Research Analyst, Ratnabali Investment

Yeah. Good evening, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. We have seen some spike in employee cost in this quarter. Can you throw some colors on that, sir?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Spike in.

Shravan Shah
VP Research, Dolat Capital

Annual increment.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Annual increments. We follow an increment cycle from first July.

Sanjay Nandi
Equity Research Analyst, Ratnabali Investment

Okay.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Our increments are, you know, evaluation done in March, given effect in July. July, June is our annual cycle.

Sanjay Nandi
Equity Research Analyst, Ratnabali Investment

Okay. Thank you so much, sir, for the opportunity. Happy Diwali, sir.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Murarka from Axis Capital Limited. Please go ahead.

Amit Murarka
Executive Director, Axis Capital Limited

Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity again, Nazu. Just on the white cement entity like RAK acquisition which you had made that is supposed to kind of flow in additional volumes into India. By when is it expected to start?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

This quarter, they will start. October, December quarter should be starting volumes. Packing material has already reached there, quality, et cetera, all settled. Logistics tied up. This quarter shipment should happen. Start happening.

Amit Murarka
Executive Director, Axis Capital Limited

Okay. Exports to Sri Lanka, like, is there anything happening or it's completely stopped?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Very marginal. Only in case we have secured rupee LC available which is opening up. Against those LCs only we are exporting. Exports have dropped down dramatically from maybe 1.5 lakh tons per month. Give or take 1.5 lakh to-

Shravan Shah
VP Research, Dolat Capital

30,000-40,000.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

To 30,000 or 40,000, two shipments only. One more reason, I'm glad you asked about Sri Lanka. Our working capital. We have close to INR 200 crores due from our Sri Lanka operation. The money is lying there. Government is releasing money gradually. We received about INR 40 crores last quarter, in the reported quarter. I believe that money will get regularized, in the next two quarters or three quarters.

Amit Murarka
Executive Director, Axis Capital Limited

Got it. What was the export volume in Q2, absolute number?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

100,000 tons.

Amit Murarka
Executive Director, Axis Capital Limited

Okay. Got it. Thanks. Wishing you happy Diwali.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Happy Diwali to you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please go ahead.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Sir, two quick questions. First is, sir, if I heard it right, you indicated on CPP, we have 5% petcoke and 6% local coal. So my question is why petcoke is at only 5%? I remember like 2017 something there was a court judgment.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

So, uh-

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Yeah.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

What was the court judgment?

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

I think it did restrict the usage of petcoke when it comes to power plants. Before then it was allowed because of

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Okay.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

The quality of limestone and limestone saturation factor.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yeah.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Question is, can this number of 5% petcoke when it comes to CPP increase and can it be a cost saving lever?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

In CPP we use domestic coal which is far more cheaper.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Right. Sir, you said 29% is imported and 5% is petcoke. Is there room for substitution?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Yeah, there is. One is in the NCR and the related markets, petcoke is not allowed in power plants, that you are aware.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Sure.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

It's opportunity wherever we find financial economics working in favor of petcoke, we use that.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

sir, if my memory serves me right, it's only in three cases wherein petcoke in CPP is not allowed.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

I'm sorry. Yeah, you're right. NCR, which is, that is the market.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Okay. Can this number move and surprise?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Could be.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Given-

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

I don't have a ready answer actually, Ritesh.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

Okay. Fine. Sir, second quick question. Is there any changes which one can expect on the discounting trends in the marketplace? Is there some stability over here?

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

I have no idea about that.

Ritesh Shah
Analyst, Investec

No. No worries. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you.

Atul Daga
Executive Director and CFO, UltraTech Cement

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. On behalf of UltraTech Cement, that concludes this conference. We thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.

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