Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the UltraTech Cement Limited Q4 FY23 earnings conference call. We must remind you that the discussion on today's call may include certain forward-looking statements and must be therefore viewed in conjunction with the risks that the company faces. The company assumes no responsibility to publicly amend, modify or revise any forward-looking statement on the basis of any subsequent development, information or events or otherwise. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then Zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Atul Daga, Executive Director and CFO of the company.
Thank you and over to you, sir.
Thank you so much. Good evening, friends and a very warm welcome to you on this earnings call for UltraTech for our quarter four FY23 earnings. First and foremost, my apologies for the last minute delay in the time for the call, but I guess, nobody's work from home these days, so, you will be attending this call from office and hopefully have a good evening after the call. I don't have too many comments today, and will be more than happy to rather engage with you and answer as many questions as possible. Because performance speaks louder than words. If there's any further clarification needed beyond our numbers, more than happy to answer. A few quick highlights for this quarter.
This quarter and this year in particular, we sold 100 million tons of gray cement from India in the last 12 months, which is a very unique feat. It's not just a number because it requires collaborative effort, synergies from all angles, from all sections of the company, which encompasses almost 55 physical plant locations, manufacturing plant locations, then 235 RMC plant locations, 50 rigs being dispatched every day, more than 12,000 trucks being dispatched every day, and more than 100,000 channel partners supporting this network. Along with, of course, the employees who've toiled day in, day out to make this happen. It has been a consistent performance. It's not that a last minute thought process or a last month effort.
Month after month, quarter- after- quarter, I think the company has done, put in a fabulous effort to deliver this 100 million tons. I think we feel tremendously proud about it and I thought of sharing my sentiments with you. Talking about our expansion, the Phase I of expansion is almost complete. There are two or three smaller upgradations and brownfield expansions which are under trial and will get completed before the end of this quarter. We have till April 2023, we have commissioned 17.8 million tons of capacity. That's a number to reckon with. Phase II expansion of 22.6 million tons is in progress, as of now we expect to reach our next milestone of 156 million tons by June 2025 or before the close of 2025, 2026.
Talking about cement prices, last time everybody was inquiring about prices. We did not see too much movement in prices in this quarter. Rightly so because this quarter is all about volumes and you saw huge amount of growth. We've delivered a 15% growth overall in this quarter. Fuel prices is the next big element to talk about. Fuel prices have been softening. Petcoke has been softening. Coal continues to be pretty strong, still pretty strong. In spite of whatever softening is happening, we are not yet celebrating because coal is still trending high and China, to my mind, has still not started importing. China as and when it all depends on how the global markets perform with China coming into operation.
One more highlight is about our cash flows. We spent almost INR 6,000 crore on CapEx this year. This kind of trend is expected to continue in the next 2-3 years. Most important and interesting aspect about our cash flow generation has been that we have had a positive cash flow after meeting all CapEx requirements, working capital requirements, dividend payments as well, and yet we have deleveraged. Small bit, but that's, that goes a long way to tell how powerful and how diligently we manage our cash flows. With regards to green energy, we have ended this year with 210 megawatts of WHRs and 345 megawatts of renewable energy.
We are on track on our ESG targets, having reached 557 kgs per ton of cement as compared to when we started this year, we were at 582 kgs per ton of cement. Last point which I would want to talk about is demand. Demand in the country seems to be very strong. We ourselves ended the year with 84% capacity utilization, the quarter at 95%. The month of March was a record-breaking 100% capacity utilization. I'm glad to tell you that the momentum has been maintained in the current financial year in the first month, which means that the opening batting has been good, and I hope the middle order and the tail will also perform equally well. With that, I would hand over to you for questions. Thank you so much.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Reminder to the participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one at this time. The first question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir. Congratulations on achieving the 100 million plus volume for this year. Sir, a couple of data points and the questions. In terms of the data points, the lead distance for this quarter and Kcal cost for this quarter, and how do we see this Kcal cost in the Q1 of this year and the Q2 ?
Lead distance we have given in the presentation was about 413 km and 2.5 kcal is what we have reached in this quarter. Let me not go into the next quarter because the quarter is still going on.
Broadly, how do we see in terms of the further reduction in power and fuel cost?
Yeah. Yeah. It should be softening. It should be softening.
Any number, we want to put?
Will not be able to give any numbers.
On the capacity front, sir, you have already mentioned that remaining 2.1 million ton will be commissioned in this quarter. Out of the next phase, 22.6 million ton, how much will be added in FY24 and how much in FY25?
Let's stick to the results for the quarter, please. We will update as and when we make significant progress on our projects, we will update everybody.
Okay. In terms of broadly, if I look at, this close to 14.4 we have already added including this April. In terms of the growth on volume for FY24, is it fair to assume that 50% even if I assume the utilization for this new capacities for this year, 7-8 million tons from here and the base of 57? Easily we should be seeing at 12%+ kind of a volume growth for this year.
K.C., it's our year. First of all, I think the volume growth is linkages not only with the plant, but it's overall market dynamics, supply demand kind of situation. Even if the plant is ready to produce, ready to fire, but it has to be economical market to service. It's a very volatile and very, I would say, beyond prediction that what kind of volumes would be able to sold in the marketplace, either from existing or from the new capacity.
This is the operator. Sorry to interrupt you. The line for the current participant has got disconnected. We'll move on to the next question from the line of Pinakin Parekh from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Thank you very much, sir, for the call. Very strong operating performance, 15% year-on-year volume growth. So far it seems that UltraTech has massively outperformed the peers in terms of volume growth. Given that UltraTech has added a lot of new capacity, is it fair to say at this point of time that the growth differential of 400-500 basis point over industry would continue in FY24 for UltraTech in terms of sales volume?
Yes, Pinakin, I believe so.
Okay. Thank you. Second question is, sir, you mentioned at the beginning of the call INR 6,000 crore CapEx for the next three years broadly. That INR 18,000 crore CapEx from 2024-2026, is it only on existing capacity of Phase II, or does that include some of the next phase of expansion?
Okay. I think two, three years got spoken in the cash flow, our 22 million tons of CapEx is about INR 12,800 crores. That's what I was referring to.
Okay. At this point of time, FY26, the third year of CapEx, does not include it.
As we had announced, by the time we complete this phase of growth, we would have announced during this year the next phase of growth wherein we would have CapEx cash flows also. I don't have a number on that, so I don't want to comment on that.
Understood. Thank you very much, sir.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sumangal Nevatia from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. First question on the volume growth. Now, this strong volume growth, if you could just share what would be the industry growth in your sense, and is this particular region where we gain market share or is it across regions?
You know, Sumangal, if we have operated at 95% capacity utilization on a base of 120 odd million tons, then we have grown, you know, performed uniformly across the length and breadth of the country. We've done uniformly well, plus here or minus here, you know, tolerance level of 3% ± might be there.
Understood. It's not just because of north region where because of some plant closures you would have had some issues.
No, no, no, no, no, no. No.
Okay.
That's very small capacity, and I'm talking about 126 million tons of capacity and not 5 million tons of capacity.
Got it. Second question, this Nathdwara merger, is it possible to quantify what could be the benefit of merger, say, in terms of accumulated losses and also in operating-?
No. I think it is more of consolidation that we want to carry out, and have a one single set of book. We were waiting for cleanup of all the non-core assets which we have completed. There were few past legal cases which we have completed, now it's a clean set of books ready to get merged with UltraTech.
Okay. Okay. No meaningful, I mean, benefit on.
No, because, you know, synergies we have already tapped into. It was for all intents and purposes working as a single, you know, between Nathdwara management team was common, brand common. Wherever synergies had to be drawn out, we have drawn out, so it's more consolidation of numbers. In my presentations, when you see India operations, I think the only change might happen at the terminology India operations might undergo a change. Oh, no, you will still continue calling it India operations. Sorry. There's no change. It's a legal consolidation that we are going through. Next question, please.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pulkit Patni from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Sir, thank you for taking my question. Sir, given the fact that our utilizations are very high already, and if my understanding is right, the bulk of your new capacity now is gonna come in FY25. FY24, there's not much capacity addition. What would your view be on pricing in that backdrop, you know, for us and for the industry?
Yeah, thank you, Pulkit. KC is aware of this side actually. Yes, our capacity in 24, FY24 definitely would not be, may not be the substantial, but let's see because how it shape out ultimately. Some other players are obviously adding the capacity. Pulkit, as you know, in our industry, it is very difficult to predict the demand actually. Say, I'll give the live example. 15 days back, we were hoping, sab achcha chalta hai, but one fine morning you start some slowdown and kind of thing, but that's not a permanent feature actually. It all depends actually. Holistically, I would say it's likely to have a good demand may be anything between 7%-8% kind of thing.
The obviously, I don't think there will be strong pricing power would be in the hands actually. But it all depends actually how the capacity utilization shaped out actually.
Sure, sir. Cost is going to be our friend for the next six months is the way you look at it?
Yeah, yeah. Pulkit, costs will definitely be our friend, and I believe just adding further to what Jhanwarji mentioned, if capacity... See, what is happening is whilst we are doing a capacity utilization of 90%, 95%, all India capacity utilization is still not rising to a meaningful level. All India, all industry capacity utilization. My firm belief is that, and I've mentioned it on several occasions, when all India capacity utilization starts going around 85%, then you see a different kind of performance level. Yeah, there is still some time.
Sure, sir. Any indication on costs on terms of spot, fuel prices? How should we look at the next couple of quarters in terms of power and fuel costs?
You know, they are volatile whilst they are in the downward trajectory, but suddenly there could be a spike also. As I was specifically mentioning about fuel costs, which Petcoke has been softening. Petcoke has reached almost $150 or $160. Coal on the same calorific value basis, coal still continues to trend around $170-$180. The gas prices have softened globally. The atomic power generation has gone up in certain parts of Europe, which is easing the pressure on fuel prices also. When, as and when China starts importing and they will open up. They are opening up already. March was a phenomenal performance in China. They have started importing, you know, sucking out coal supplies from Australia, from New Zealand already.
We have not yet seen a big impact on the overall fuel prices. I will not start celebrating yet, as I mentioned earlier, on fuel prices. They are softening, but they could make a reverse trend also.
Sure. That's useful. You've been the most guarded in terms of any comment on fuel prices versus your competition. That's it from my side.
All right.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Indrajit Agarwal from CLSA. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good evening. A couple of questions from my side. First, again, going back to coal and fuel costs. Have we been changing our strategy at all in the sense of sourcing? Have we changed our mix meaningfully or like coal, are we sourcing more from U.S. rather than Australia right now? It broadly remains the same that it was maybe a couple of quarters back.
Australia for us has never been the main source of coal. It becomes uneconomical being the distance and US has been always the main source of imported coal. Yeah, we switch between petcoke and coal depending upon pricing. You know, spot prices cannot determine that. The moment we are able to cite some trends, we try to tilt the balance towards either of the fuel, whichever makes economic sense. Last quarter for that matter, we were 52% petcoke, and we can go up further depending upon, you know, how the prices behave.
Now as we are seeing prices declining, are we looking to reduce our inventory of coal petcoke or we still want to be well prepared for any production uptick that we are?
No, no, no. Irrespective of prices, inventories have to be carried. We do a thumb rule of 40-45 days of inventories. Can't take a risk. Suddenly if there's some mine shutdown or anything, suddenly if supplies are not available, then our operations will suffer.
Interesting.
This is a long, long-distance, long lead item, so we can't compromise on inventory levels. That will be very speculative.
Sure. A couple of questions on the waste heat side. We had a target of 318 MW by end of FY24. Are we still on track for that? Can we like?
Yeah, we'll exceed that, I think so. 24.
Yeah.
We'll exceed that.
This fiscal. We will be like 34% green share that we had guided.
Yes. Yes. We are very confident we would because see green share, the non-investment base is alternate fuel. We are continuously ramping up our alternate fuel, which ultimately forms part of my guidance on 34%. We will definitely meet our targets for sure.
Sure. Thanks. My last question is on the clinker conversion ratio. We are at about 1.41 times. Not just in the near term, maybe a five, seven-year horizon. Do you see this moving more towards 1.6, 1.7 times as the industry accepts more blended cement? Do you think there will be a sharp distinction between the infrastructure projects which will continue to have higher OPC? Do you see any-
There are two sides of the coin to this. One is with infrastructure continuously being the bellwether of demand, the consumption of OPC will continue to remain high, which means the conversion ratios cannot improve dramatically. However, there is a lot of advocacy which is happening around blended cement usage in infrastructure projects. Depends on how successful the industry is to percolate that message down, and we could see improvement in overall conversion norms.
Sure. Thank you.
One, and you know, 1.6, I can't do the math around 1.6. This quarter ended, 1.41 was average, but quarter ending was 1.42. We have once in a while touched higher than 1.42 also, and in the near future maybe 1.5 could happen.
Sure. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. A couple of questions. First one is on the legal side. Sir, how should we read point 8 notes to accounts pertaining to the Dalla asset?
Dalla asset, it's under arbitration. Let that process get completed. We'll then take over that asset.
Sir, can you specify how much is the cement and clinker over there? The asset which is under arbitration?
Sorry, 2.3 million ton clinker only.
No, no cement.
No grinding capacity is at that location.
Sir, corresponding limestone?
The limestone mines would be about 100 million tons over there.
Okay. perfect. sir, you wouldn't like to comment anything on the course of action incrementally or possibly how it landed in arbitration?
It's a good point. Good point, Ritesh. Next question, please.
Sir, next question. Any specific cost initiatives, besides the green power and AFR, that we are working on, either on lead or, moving from road to rail or exploring more of coastline?
There are. I think it's this topic might take half an hour of discussion by itself. There are lots of initiatives that the organization is taking, whether it's on digital ways of working, which is helping reduce our operation costs or optimizing my lead distance or optimizing my freight costs. There are lots of initiatives. I think the leading question would be, you must, might ask me what is the target number. I don't have a target number because these are continuous improvement programs. We have improvement programs happening in our maintenance costs, in our power consumption. Some are investment-led, some are improvement in efficiency. Mining operations for that matter, there are dedicated specific, you know, specific task force and actions being taken to improve the cost of mining.
Every, you name the field, work is continuously on. There's never a status quo that we would reach.
Correct. Sir, just last question. You indicated, we are positive on demand. You also indicated, I think batting order, middle order and tail will follow and we are upbeat on volumes. Sir, my question is, and you also indicated at the India level, utilization level is still not at the desired level. Sir, what will be the probability for the cement prices to remain at the current level if the cost curve goes down and what you indicated, utilization at the India level is not at the desired level?
You tell me now. You are there in the field, what will happen?
Prices should go down, logically. I would like to have your thoughts, sir.
No, I think, you know, there would not be too much pressure on prices. I don't believe so. We have seen in the heat of the January-March quarter, if volumes are so high, then prices should have corrected. Prices did not correct. We have maintained our prices as we were in the last quarter. Nobody wants to just crash prices for volumes.
Sure. Sir, adjusted for seasonality, automatically it will come up.
Sorry?
Sir, adjusting for seasonality, technically it has to come up because volumes will dip.
July-September quarter is always a weak quarter, but my sense is otherwise, prices should remain stable.
Sure, sir. I have more questions, sir. I'll join back. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Murarka from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Just a couple of questions. Firstly, on demand, the slide around the various demand drivers that you present shows a relatively weak performance by the infra and commercial segment, whereas the housing segment is what is driving the demand. With a healthy budget which we've seen for FY24, are you already seeing the infra segment also picking up or still sluggish as of now?
Yes. Yes. One important aspect which I've mentioned it in the comments also, is when the harvest time happens, the normally labor availability goes down for the infra projects. That's where new project taking off also is slow. It's about new projects not taking off at a point in time, which results in a mild slowdown. I think it's, a sneeze should not be considered as a flu. It's a very mild thing. Given the impetus on infrastructure that the government has, given the fact that this is election year, I believe demand will continue to grow very strong.
Okay. Understood. Also on exports, like this quarter you've seen, shown a higher exports volume and also has the Sri Lanka situation, fully normalized now or how are we placed?
Yes. Yes. I think it's almost normalized and we have started, getting back our volumes. We've at the peak of the problem time, we had almost INR 250 crores outstanding from Lanka. Everything, you know, the last penny has been received. Volumes have started picking up. The economy's started picking up. Our exports are also going up.
The subsidy financials in the presentation you have disclosed, other expenses have actually almost come down to 0 in Lanka. Is there any major change in the, like, operating structure which you have made there?
No, no. What is this, Ankit?
The other expenses line item. This is in slide 34. It shows that it was INR 84 last year. It is INR 6 crores this year.
No. I'll ask Ankit to get back to you on this, Amit.
Okay. Okay. Sure. Just last question, like, on the fuel cost, you mentioned $194 consumption cost right now. What we understand is on the spot level, the Petcoke costs have dropped to, like, around $140-$145 per ton. Like, by when will these current spot prices start reflecting? Generally, like, it's 45 days that you take to consume the fuel.
I would give about 2 months.
Okay. Okay.
Just one second. The clarification there.
Amit, that other expenses include exchange loss because last year, in Lanka there was a currency depreciation which was very high.
Okay. Understood. Okay. That's all from my side. Thanks.
Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prateek Kumar from Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Hi, good evening, sir. I'm from result. Pratik, my question is on pricing.
Sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Kumar. The audio is unclear from your line. Please use the handset mode.
Are you on speaker, Prateek? A little better.
Yeah. My question is on pricing.
Yes, please.
The line for the current participant has got disconnected. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, we would request you to rejoin the question queue. The next question is from the line of Raashi Chopra from Citigroup. Please go ahead.
Thank you. At the last quarter, you had mentioned that fourth quarterly EBITDA per ton will cross INR 1,000, and then more medium term, you're expecting INR 1,000-INR 1,200. Obviously you've delivered on the Q4 number. What are the thoughts on the INR 1,000-INR 1,200 medium term, given the way costs have come up?
I believe we deliver on what we commit.
I think my question is there upside to that?
Upside to what?
The 1,000 to 1,200 medium term.
I wouldn't want to count it so soon. Let Q1 play out. We'll see then.
Okay. Also, the green power in this quarter, was it 20%?
15%. No, sorry. 21%, no? Total green power.
25%.
25%. Sorry, my bad. 25%.
25%. Okay.
Which includes WHRs plus renewables plus AFR.
Right. What was the working capital release in the quarter?
In the quarter, how much is the working capital release?
Working capital.
Release.
Release INR 23 crores.
Okay.
Quarter.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Navin Sahadeo from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Sahadeo.
Hello.
Hi, Naveen.
Right. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, two quick questions. One, are there any efficiency measures or any other special initiatives the company is taking on other expenses front? Because on absolute basis, even at, let's say, volumes of, nearly 32 million tons, the total amount is actually less than what we, saw at even when the volumes were just 23 million tons. I understand it is partly fixed, partly variable. I'm just trying to understand, are there any, initiatives or any efficiency gains, which, have been factored here?
No, Navin, there's nothing extraordinary. I think, I would say it's an operating leverage play. If I'm trying to think, sir, the biggest other expenses would be something like advertisements.
Advertising.
Yeah. That I really cannot predict or cannot have a standard flow depending upon events when campaigns are run. That could be a bit of a yo-yo. You might see in this quarter, the other expenses are slightly higher because there'll be huge amount of ad spend. Could be. Other than that, there's nothing abnormal which comes to my mind.
Sure. Sure. Sir, just directionally, well, of course, previous participants have did ask you about pricing and fuel costs. My just one question, directionally, April as a month, on terms of realizations would be better versus the March quarter or would be a tad lower? How would you look at it directionally?
Directionally good.
Sorry, I didn't get you.
That's nice that you didn't get me. It's positive direction. It's not declining, so.
Understood. Great. That's helpful. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahul Gupta from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Thank you for taking my question. Uncertain, sir, I have a couple of questions. If I do back of the envelope math, it suggests that fuel cost would come down by around 15% over the next two quarters, of course, assuming everything remains same. Is that a fair understanding? Secondly, given fuel costs have surprised positively on spot basis over the past few months, is it fair to expect that the focus would be again on volumes and the positives that one would get from fuel prices would be offset by the cement prices during the year?
I lost your first question. What was the first question here?
Sorry. What I was alluding to was, when I do my back of the envelope, math, your fuel cost should decline by around 15% over the next two quarters. Of course, this is assuming everything remains same.
Yeah. If everything remains the same, you know, then the math could work. Spot prices are never on the spot. They are changing on a daily basis. If the trend is continuously down south, then yes, you will be proven right.
Yeah. Just to take this point forward, does that mean we get more leeway to play on or focus on volumes, sorry for the word, at the expense of cement prices during the year, even we have support?
No. Ultimately, ultimately Rahul, ultimately we play for EBITDA per ton and not for a single lever. Nobody in the right sense and the right mind frame would want to lose on EBITDA per ton.
Agreed. Makes sense. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Bye now.
The next question is from the line of Sumangal Nevatia from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you, sir. I got disconnected. Sir, first question on the capital structure over the medium term. Now, we've deleveraged quite aggressively without compromising on growth. Now as we're approaching net cash, should we expect a higher payout or we will look to accumulate cash on books over the next two, three years?
One is, this year our, dividend payout is almost 22% of profits. It will keep on going up steadily as percentage of profits is my view. Of course, the board will take a final call, but the reading that I have is it will keep on improving.
Okay. Okay. Sir, over last several years, we've been quite active on M&A. I mean, how is the landscape now? Are there meaningful assets still on the block, or it's largely gonna be organic going forward?
See, we believe in India growth story, and we want to continue to participate in India growth story. We will grow. Whether organic or inorganic is a second thing. Inorganic is always opportunistic. It also has to, in my definition, it has to give us a profitable growth opportunity. In that scenario, we'll examine it. If it is, does not make sense, we'll drop it.
Okay. Just one last thing on April prices is not very clear. I mean, since the month is almost over, is it possible to share some regional sense on how the prices have moved versus March?
I don't want to comment on month-to-month numbers.
Okay. Got it. Okay. Thank you and all the best.
Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prateek Kumar from Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Sorry, my phone got disconnected. My question is on clinker capacity. You reported like 84% utilization for cement for FY23. What would be your clinker utilization for the year, and what is your clinker capacity post this first phase of expansion?
Just one second. You ask difficult questions, so we have to...
Clinker capacity utilization.
What is the clinker capacity?
Just answering one linear.
Clinker capacity utilization was about 91%, Q4 FY23.
What would be that for full year? You said 84% for full year for cement, right?
Yeah. Yeah. What are you asking?
83%.
For what?
Full year.
Cement is 84% full year. Clinker is 83% full year.
What would be your clinker capacity?
Clinker capacity. Do you have a number, guys?
Give me a minute.
Huh?
Just give.
Surprisingly, we don't have a clinker capacity number immediately. I'll give it to you separately.
Okay. Second question is on pricing. Last quarter, was there material difference in regional pricing trend on various regions?
No, no. It almost remained flat. A rupee here or a rupee there within regions.
Okay. There's no change in competitive intensity in any region specifically?
No. No. No. No.
Lastly, on other expense. Other expense, growth seems lower on an year-on-year basis versus volumes. That's largely related to, I mean, as I comment on operating leverage benefits. Is there some expense which is missing this quarter?
No, nothing is missing. Nothing has been stopped. It's purely operating leverage. Sure. Thank you. These are my questions.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashish Jain from Macquarie. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good evening. Sir, my first question is, you know, on this, 25% green power that you said, can you break it up between, how much is AFR and how much is government side?
6% was renewable energy, 15% was WHRS, and balance would be alternate fuel. No, sorry.
RE power in the grid connection.
Grid. Sorry. RE, renewable energy is high, another 15% is WHRS and balance is renewable energy.
Okay. sir, AFR, is it even cheaper on a calorific value basis or whichever ways we measure it, or it is more about the attending the green targets that we have?
No, we take a calorific value basis.
Okay. Sir, secondly, you know, on WHRS, like, you know, you had this target of 324, which you said you might exceed, but you know, with once we go to 154, what is the potential on WHRS we have? It should increase substantially with the kind of clinker we are adding. Is that right?
Uh.
The reason I'm saying otherwise, you know, your share on green could decline, you know, in case we don't match it with incremental WHRS. Just want to understand where we stand on that.
Yeah. Yeah, Ashish, actually, I would put this way. Now, all the new plants are done with the WHRS actually. As far as new plants are concerned, on about 55% power can get generated from WHRS for the new plants. Average, obviously, certain old plants where there is no possibility or layout does not permit or there are other challenges, but new plants can give up to 55% of the your power requirement. Further to that, Ashish, we are not adding any thermal power capacity. Yeah. Balance we are depending on grid. As India improves, in terms of power supply and PLF, grid supply is becoming, you know, a safer way of supplying, absorbing power in our units.
Irrespective of organic capacity going up or WHRS maturing on our current capacity, future capacity will remain balanced with green power.
Right. If I ask this differently, the 324 number, if my understanding was right, it was based on the triple, 111 million ton capacity basis. Is that right or this included this, 130? Or is it based on 134 million ton? I'm not clear about that.
On 130 million ton, it was around 303 megawatts.
Right. Once we go from 130 to 155 or 154, we should be adding, roughly another 100 megawatts. Is that right?
Around 60-65 megawatts, which will take us to 360-370 megawatts.
Okay. Got it. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Devesh Agarwal from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. You did mention that, probably pricing may not go up, but given your high utilizations, do you think that, the share of premium product, in your overall mix, can go up and that can support the pricing?
Yeah, it is already going up. We have crossed 20% in terms of premium products and which also directly, indirectly help absolute realization, average realization.
Any targets, sir, for FY24?
Yeah, I'll tell you at the end of 2024.
Actually, on a net basis, how much more do we earn out of premium products?
Incremental margin on premium product. There are multiple. Do we have an average number? Just 1 second. Around INR 10 a bag, sir, yeah. My colleague tells me INR 10 a bag would be an average earning. There are multiple products, that clearly is INR 200 per ton.
Understood. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Keshav Lahoti from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Congrats on great set of numbers. Just want to understand one thing. If I look at your kcal costing, you are industry leader on many operating fronts, but kcal of where Dalmia is speaking about 2.06 in this quarter and you are at 2.5 kcal. Will this difference narrow down in upcoming two, three quarter with the perfect understanding?
Some mysteries can never be solved. Having said that, you know, our largest footprint is in all the infrastructure projects. You name an infrastructure project where UltraTech is not present, and that is where the whole tilt is because we are supplying OPC as compared to other players who are not supplying so much of OPC. Everything has a challenge.
Okay. Got it. As you know, again reiterated, you stand that once the industry capacity utilization reaches 85%, we get a pricing power. Somewhere that things are not play out in quarter four.
You see only three or four results have been published. You'll have to wait for other results to come out, then you'll know what the average capacity utilization of the industry is. Clearly, we operating at a significantly higher base and higher capacity utilization, I believe we would have gained, we would have made significant inroads in the market.
Like, if you operated at, let's say near 100% in March, so obviously I believe industry might be above 85% in March, but that pricing play is still missing. That's what I'm trying to understand.
No, you know, I don't think India is operating at 85% plus as yet.
Okay. Got it. One last question from my side. When you are talking about 34% green power, can you give a ballpark number, how much is by WHRS, how much will be green power?
26% was our target on WHRS and, 9 or 10% was our target on.
Renew.
renewable energy.
Okay. Thank you. That's it from my side.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Quick three questions. First is, where are we on RAK? Post RAK, how has the mix shifted, captive volumes versus what we source from RAK? Has our market strategy changed, specific to white cement and wall putty? That's the first question. Second is on Construction Chemicals.
Before I forget, let me just take one by one question. You said, where are we on RAK? RAK is in Ras Al Khaimah, and it's very much there. We are. Sorry, that was a bad joke. I think the operations are now coming under control. We have started rebranding the entire RAK output into Birla White. Birla White bags are already in place at RAK White. They are shipping Birla White as a product from there. Prices for white cement have seen a consequent improvement in the country. There is a consequent improvement in our market share as well in the white cement space.
Sir, possible for you to quantify?
This was a strategic investment, which to my mind is playing right at the moment. Yeah. Sorry, what?
Right. sir, I think we were at just at about 50%, and we had indicated we could increase the stake further. so any timelines on going to 80 or 100? that is one. You indicated on market shares. Is it possible for us to quantify something?
Going to what? Sorry, what?
sir, RAK, stake.
What?
30% capacity utilization.
Capacity utilization. Oh, okay.
No, no. Sir, stake. Sir, economic interest.
Stake. We are working on it. Hopefully in this financial year we'll be able to consolidate, make it our subsidiary.
Okay. Sir, on market share, you indicated that market share has increased. Possible for us to quantify?
No, I don't have that data. The very fact that I'm importing that, RAK White product as a, as a product name is out of the market and it got replaced by Birla White, clearly there is a market share gain.
Sure. Sir, Construction Chemicals, any headline numbers for the fiscal, revenue and EBITDA and targets?
The EBITDA is not measurable. We have clocked about INR 550 crores of revenues in Construction Chemicals this year.
Sure. Sir, we had plans on captive manufacturing over here. Any updates over there?
There is a lot of captive manufacturing happening, in all our Construction Chemicals.
sir, you had indicated we'll put up more plants across our factories.
Yeah. That's what I meant by captive manufacturing. We have both models. A lot of places we are using because it doesn't require too much space. We are using space available in our factory premises, depending upon the closeness to the market or doing contract manufacturing outside.
Do you have a number of locations that we are present in today with our contract manufacturing plants?
16 locations.
How many plants do we have? Ritesh, I'll announce on the call if your questions are over. How many plants?
2 more. Quickly, sir.
Just one second, Ritesh. Just one second. Sir, the number of plants ballpark?
Yes.
Just one second. Sorry. I'll let you know, Ritesh. Let's not waste time.
No, sir. just quick data point, sir. same thing on RMC. Any change in strategy? we have the numbers for the full year, but are we upping.
Yeah, yeah. We are going full steam ahead on RMC. We have already 235 plants.
INR 231 we closed.
Last March, we ended with 231 plants and further a few more plants would have got added in April. We'll continue to grow and hope to double this number very soon.
39 plants.
39 physical locations that our contract, Construction Chemicals manufacturing is happening.
Wow. Okay. Just two quick ones. Bulk cement terminal and railway sidings, what's the number right now, and do we have any numbers targeted for next two years?
What was the first one you asked?
Bulk cement terminal and railway sidings.
How many terminals are there?
Seven.
Bulk terminal is 7 and railheads almost 300.
sir, targeted numbers for next year.
Don't have a target number. Bulk terminals are as part of our 22.6 million tons. There are 2 more bulk terminals planned. One in UP.
Karnataka.
One in Karnataka and one in UP.
Sure, sir. This is helpful. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Murarka from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Amit is not there. Let's take the last couple of questions, please.
As there is no response, we'll move on to the next question from the line of Anupama Prakash Bothra from Arihant Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question. I have a specific question on Eastern region. Wanted to understand your perspective as far as East India markets are concerned and the company's plans in Eastern region for coming years.
We will continue to grow in the Eastern markets. Eastern markets one of the most deep markets in terms of growth potential. Highest density of population, lowest level of development, that still continues to plague that market. So there's a huge amount of opportunity that we see in the Eastern markets.
Like, what kind of capacity expansion is the company planning for coming year, specifically in Eastern?
Out of the 22 million tons that we have announced, close to 5 or 6 million tons is coming up in the Eastern markets. We are today present with how much? 20?
Twenty-two.
22 million tons of capacity in East, which will go up by 5 million tons in the next 2 years.
How much, like, clinker backing for the same?
We are always clinker-backed.
Okay. Okay, fine. Thank you so much. That's it from my side.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashish Jain from Macquarie. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. In your presentation, you know, slide 24, you have given break up of CapEx under various heads. Can you give some color on, you know, what is included in ESG, other CapEx and strategic investments?
Strategic investment was RAK White, ESG, largely WHRS and all the CapExes which are, power saving, related, which help me reduce.
AFR.
or AFR, investments.
Other?
Others will be balanced modernization. There is huge amount of stuff which will keep happening in a live operation. You know, it could be some building also or some plant modernization. Anything is possible.
Logistics infrastructure.
Yeah. Various infrastructures will be there.
Okay. WHRS is part of ESG and not in both CapEx.
Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Got it. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. On behalf of UltraTech Cement, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.