Welcome to the Oceania Healthcare Limited full year results announcement for FY 2024. All participants are in a listen-only mode. First, we will hear a presentation, followed by the question and answer session. If you are participating in the teleconference, please ensure your webcast audio is muted to avoid an echo. You can mute the sound in the lower corner of the video player. If you wish to ask a question, you will need to press the star key followed by the number 1 on your telephone keypad. I would now like to hand the conference over to Brent Pattison, Chief Executive Officer, Kathryn Waugh, Chief Financial Officer, and Heath Milne, Head of Capital Markets and M&A. Please go ahead.
Well, thank you everyone, and a very warm, warm welcome. I'm delighted to be presenting our financial results for full year 2024. This will be my last annual results briefing as CEO of Oceania, and it's been an absolute honor to join you each year and to see how the business has changed and adapted and succeeded in a tough market over the last few years. Oceania is a team, and it's our people's daily efforts that makes this business so great. I get to see our team in action every day, and there are just so many moments of brilliance, empathy, professionalism, and innovation, where our residents truly feel the outworking of our Believe in Better promise. well done, team! You have made my role so rewarding, and I'm very proud of each and every one of you.
To the market participants and commentators, I've enjoyed your questions, your interest, and dedication to our business. We haven't always agreed, but we have learned together, and we have a better business for it. To our residents, it's certainly been a privilege of mine to get to know so many of you personally over the years. It's wonderful to have our residents' lives captured in our presentation and annual reporting materials. Lastly, to our shareholders, I thank you for your investment in us, your confidence in us, and your continued support. Turning to the financial results, I can tell you it's always a bonus as an exiting CEO to have a set of numbers that demonstrate a positive direction of travel, a transformation of a business, and an execution of a strategy. The team have worked hard to put us in a favorable financial position.
At a P&L level, we have seen a significant increase in our total comprehensive income of NZD 70.5 million, up 104%, and our non-GAAP measures of underlying EBITDA, NZD 82.6 million, which is up 3%, and underlying net PAT, which is 62.1 million, up 6% on PCP. Operating cash flow and new cash from sales of occupational right agreements, what we call ORAs, have been strong performers at NZD 85.4 million, up 22%, and NZD 226.3 million, up 27% on PCP. The de-leveraging of Oceania is well underway, with total net debt headroom improving from NZD 88.5 million on March 31, 2024, to around NZD 100 million today.
We are also in compliance with all banking covenants, and Kathryn will expand on the success of these measures in her section of the presentation. We have continued to add to the quality of the Oceania portfolio, with the delivery of 182 units and care suites in full year 2024, and we are well advanced on next year's pipeline of 224 units and care suites. It's been pleasing to note the success of our divestment program, with six assets sold or under contract as at 31st of March, 2024, and I will touch on this in more detail shortly. Pleasingly also, we are well underway on our climate-related disclosure reporting, and this will be published next month.
Oceania is a business that's been investing in its growth, and the directors have resolved to not pay a final dividend as we conclude the more intensive components of this growth and portfolio transformation stage. Turning to slide 3, transformation through innovation. I've been part of a wonderful team that set itself an ambitious plan of transforming Oceania through innovation, capital investment, and a genuine desire to reimagine the retirement and aged care sector. The graphic shows Oceania's progress from the IPO in 2017 through to today. And as it turns out, while I was not yet employed by Oceania at that time, I was part of a group of investment banking advisors to the IPO, and as such, have journeyed with Oceania since 2017.
It is pleasing to see that we have grown the assets of Oceania by over 200% to nearly NZD 3 billion, and operating cash flows by more than 100% to NZD 85.4 million. People have often heard me say, "We deliver critical infrastructure and essential services." With this in mind, we set about modernizing and transforming the portfolio of properties to the highest levels of Homestar certification. We pioneered the introduction of the nurse practitioner model during those tough COVID years. This provided a dual benefit for Oceania. Firstly, career pathways and retention of our clinical staff, and secondly, personalized high-quality care for our residents when traditional New Zealand GP practices were in decline.
We ambitiously tied our five-year, NZD 500 million dollar sustainability-linked loan to performance targets that focused on resident well-being, allowing our residents to evaluate our daily service and care for them, and let us know how we were performing. We made staying together in later life possible with the introduction of couples care suites, and have taken the next step of providing a private, personalized care offering at The Helier. Strategic investment decisions. Oceania, as you are aware, has been an active industry participant in building, buying, selling, and curating a modern, premium, and resident-centered portfolio of villages and care properties. Since IPO, Oceania has delivered over 1,350 new units and care suites across the full spectrum of property typologies, with the greatest weighting towards high-quality premium apartments and care suites.
We've also had an active M&A agenda, having completed over 21 capital transactions since IPO, six acquisitions and 15 divestments or closures. In the full year 2024, we have sold, exited, or have under advanced contracts, a total of nine property divestments. What is of importance is that in aggregate, these divestments have netted circa NZD 40 million of cash proceeds for de-leveraging Oceania and supporting new growth opportunities, and have been transacted with various purchasers in aggregate above book value. Some nice pictures of developments that we've completed in the full year 2024. If we start with the left-hand side, the Bayview. In 2024, we delivered 28 further units, the Pohutukawa stage. The Bayview, Bayview development started with a new care building, which has been fully occupied and built up a great reputation in the region.
The site development then turned to apartments, and we are now over 100 apartments across 3 stages. With harbor views to the Mount, the Bayview is Tauranga's best-kept secret, which we are unlocking for residents. We also highlight the stages of development potential located on the site, and this is in the picture highlighted in green. Turning to The Helier. It's a standing joke in the office that there are very few people that Brent hasn't taken to The Helier to show them around. But the truth is, it just gets better every time I see it. It was born out of significant market research and deep resident insight. We have an integrated building, sensitive to its location and landscape, that delivers outstanding convenience and hotel-like services for both our independent and private care residents.
We've also acquired neighboring properties on the northeast boundary, providing protection of views and a future stage of development to connect the two roads. The Helier is a premium product, and it was opened in stages due to the impact of COVID and weather-related delays. The completed common areas were leased and opened in August 2023, and our private paying care was opened on Valentine's Day in February 2024, of which we have seen strong demand for this new care offering. We have just over 25% of the apartments sold and under application and nearly 20% of the care residences. Softer housing market continues to have an impact as people wait to see where rates are heading. While the total sales proceeds are significant, at circa NZD 60 million from these initial sales and applications, we were expecting a stronger start.
However, given the premium nature of the offering, the elevated inquiry levels since official opening, we expect to be cash neutral within the full year 2025. We turn to the next page. Redwood and Blenheim. The delivery of 55 care suites at the Redwood Village is another example of right product, right place in the heart of Blenheim, with our award-winning gardens. The Redwood Village has been part of Oceania's portfolio since the late 1980s, and the recent completion of the care suite building has been well received by the local market. We already have nine applications processed following our official opening, and a wonderful Karakia and Waiata, led by Rangitāne iwi on a beautiful sunny day on 8th of May. The Bellevue. We completed all stages of our planned development at the Bellevue Village, with the recently completed 46 apartments, as seen in the image.
This provides a fully integrated site comprising of 68 apartments and 71 care suites in a key location in Christchurch. We have 100% sold all prior stages of apartments and achieved significant presale success for this final stage of these apartments. We have settled and recognized 15 of the 46 apartments in the full year 2024, and have a further 12 apartments under application. In essence, we have well over 50% of the village sold or under application within the first 6 months of opening. Turning to our development pipeline. Oceania is well underway with next year's development program. We have circa NZD 147 million of development debt work in progress, with all buildings nearing completion early in our full year 2025 year, to allow for the maximum time for new sales and presale cash collection.
By December 2024, we will have completed circa 85% of the 264 units and care suites under construction across three locations in Auckland. We will have concluded the last stage of development at our Awatere village in Hamilton, with 68 apartments. At our Meadowbank village, we've undertaken a 40-room, clinically researched and resident-designed dementia building, and this is a very fitting way to complete all stages of development at Meadowbank. A journey that started over 10 years ago, with apartments now 193, care suites now 63, and a bunch of happy, settled residents with high levels of satisfaction and occupancy. The last graphic on the slide is an aerial photo of our greenfield site, Namara, which means The Gardens, and this is in Franklin.
With site works complete, we are well underway with the construction of a multi-year, multi-stage development of a wonderful new Oceania community. The renders to the right provide impressions of our finished community center, the entrance, and villas. The last slide for me: strategy and portfolio transformation. Since IPO, we've added over 1,350 premium units and care suites, and this has transformed Oceania's portfolio into a modern, market-leading, and high-quality portfolio. We have observed significant sales price growth over the period 2017 through to today, with apartments up 2.6x to an average sales price of NZD 970,000, and care suites up 1.7x to an average sales price of NZD 338,000, and nearly a doubling of the average price for our villa product.
In reshaping and repositioning Oceania's portfolio, we have simplified the offering as we have pivoted our portfolio to the present and future requirements of our residents. To put this in context, around 85% of our total independent property valuation is represented in 21 of these village and care properties. These 21 village and care sites are either brand new or have had major development within the last 5-6 years and have an average building age of 3 years or less. These are new, modern, and resident design buildings with minimal ongoing maintenance required, delivering exceptional resident service and quality outcomes, and they have been built with a 50-year expected life.
As communicated at our half year, we've been rebalancing the overall product mix, with 44% independent living and 56% care, with a stated intention of getting to 50/50 as we build out the rest of the portfolio. We are proud of what's been achieved at Oceania and the transformation of the portfolio. We have also had an eye to the future, and we have an attractive, well-positioned land bank across 16 sites in the Golden Triangle, central North Island, and populated South Island locations. These 16 sites are already part of the Oceania family and provide over 1,500 consented units and care suites for future stages of development. Thanks, everyone. I'm going to hand now to Kathryn Waugh, our Chief Financial Officer.
Thank you, Brent, and thank you, everyone, for dialing in today. We have provided in the appendices a pro forma for analysts on the call. This records the impact of divested and exited sites to allow for like-for-like comparisons of earnings. I'll walk you through the rest of the slides, and then we will open for questions. Full information can be seen in our financial statements and the appendices to this presentation. Our annual report this year shows a clear step towards evolving our integrated thinking and integrated reporting practices. The inclusion of additional metrics and targets in the annual report to accompany our financial statements is just one step in this process. I'm happy to say that as a team, we have made great inroads on our sustainability and integration roadmap since we last spoke.
In refining our value creation model, we have really been getting under the hood using the Six Capitals framework to enhance our assessment of what drives true long-term sustainable value and performance. Aligning our value creation model with our strategic pillars and exploring the utilization of different capitals and business activities has helped us do this. Slide 10 details a small subset of this year's wins in relation to enhanced metrics, measuring the progress against our sustainability framework, which we introduced last year. Calling out just a few, we have met all three of our sustainably linked loan and performance targets this year. We have exceeded our construction waste diversion, we've exceeded our care resident wellbeing target, and we have had our targets for GHG emissions validated by the Science Based Targets initiative, as well as seen a reduction in our Scope 1 and 2 emissions.
In relation to the offer pillar, we now have 10 projects, a total of 495 units, which are certified to Homestar 6, and we are aiming for our first Homestar 7 project under the much stricter version 5 at Namara in Franklin, Auckland. Resident and people pillars have also seen a number of significant wins this year, with both our care resident and employee NPS stats increasing. While all this has been happening, the team have also been working hard to understand climate risks and opportunities over the short, medium, and long term. In our first year as a climate reporting entity, we've completed lots of groundwork in relation to identifying and assessing physical and transitional risks and potential implications.
We will be releasing our first climate risk disclosure statements in the next month or so, and our GHG emissions report has been loaded to the website today. At the start of this presentation, Brent touched on our statutory GAAP metrics. Here on screen, we have provided some of the non-GAAP measures and some of the highlights to our results. All in all, it's been a very favorable result this year, with positive trends in all of our key measures. For our care segment, we've seen almost 11% increase in care premiumization, testament to the premiumization journey which we've been on. For our village segment, we have seen an 18% increase in new sales volumes, a 14% increase in resales volumes, and an associated 14% increase in capital gains.... It's really pleasing to see these favorable green shoots after the last few years of downward pressure.
Overall, despite a 2.7% decrease in underlying earnings at the interim, we've been able to deliver a result which is 3% up, 6% up at the underlying EBITDA and underlying impact levels, respectively. When looking at the balance sheet, we continue a disciplined and diligent approach around capital allocation and have complied with all covenants. Our headroom of NZD 85 million has increased since balance date to a healthy NZD 100 million today, and we have a clear route to reducing our gearing levels. I will run through some of the detail behind these points on the coming slides, and we'll take questions on them at the end. Finally, for this slide, I want to touch on the divestment program.
This strategic focus has been going exceptionally well, with 2 operating sites in a land bank settling during the 12-month period and 2 operating sites settling in April and May. We have a further site currently under contract. Appendix 5 to this pack provides a view of the pro forma group underlying earnings for the sites that have been divested and exited in the reporting periods. As can be seen from the appendix, the earnings impact of the sites which we have sold was minimal. However, the conversion of value to cash for these sites has had a worthy impact to our debt position and ensures appropriate use of our capital. We still have a handful of other sites earmarked for divestment to complete this program. A month or so ago, we provided an indication of our sales volumes over the period.
As some pointed out at that time, while our volumes were up year-on-year, the second half of FY 2024 had seen slightly less sales than the first half. Pleasingly, however, during the second half, we have seen strong margins. On slide 12, we provide context to the sales we've experienced over the last 12 months. When looking year-on-year, we have seen increases in a number of areas, namely new sales volumes, resale volumes, and ILU sales. Care Suites sales have been consistently strong year-on-year, maintaining sales volumes of 250+. We've recently delivered Care Suites at Redwood and Blenheim, and the Elmwood Care Suites building will be ready for occupation later this year. Together with our existing portfolio of Care Suites, we are confident that we will continue to see strong demand for that product.
Development margins have continued to moderate, something we have signaled for a while, and resale margins continue to hold strong, testament to our product and the demand for our established product. On the right-hand side, we provide our average sales prices. This cycle, we have provided the detail of our new sales and our resales separately. We've achieved pricing which is just as strong in our resale product as our new sale product, and we've achieved price increases in all categories throughout our resale stock. New sale pricing, as we have often highlighted, is dependent on the product, the region, and the timing that the development sites are delivered. So in summary, despite market backdrop, this twelve-month period has seen our strongest sales volumes ever at 476 sales.
The lighter volumes in the second half have been offset by the strong pricing and therefore margins, which we have been able to achieve in the period. In a couple of slides time, I will talk to the new sales stock, which we have on hand, a key driver for future reduction of debt for us. Moving to slide 13 in the care segment. In our care business, we are also seeing positive markers and movements year-over-year. Premium care revenues have increased 10% year-over-year. Occupancy is creeping back up to pre-COVID levels, and care margins are stable, with a road to increase further in future periods. Even more importantly, we are now above the NZD 10,000 EBITDA per bed marker that we set a few years back.
You have heard us talk in the past about how we remain confident with our premium care strategy. I have said many times that we had an aspiration to increase our EBITDA per bed, excluding DMF, to over NZD 10,000 per bed, rising to over NZD 17,000 per bed, including DMF. This year, we have achieved both, and our aspirations don't end there. We continue to see positive trends with our wages to revenue stabilizing, and as an inflationary pressure ease over the coming periods, we will continue to see a positive trajectory in this space. I must stress that the measure of NZD 10,000 per bed relates to the core earnings of care sites, excluding DMF. Including those fees, we have seen an increase to over NZD 18,000 per bed.
This is something that will continue to increase, particularly as we bring more care suite product to the market. Our confidence in our premium care strategy continues. The EBITDA per bed is one marker, coupled with the cash collection experience from the observed shorter tenures of 2-3 years, and the contribution of care suites continues to be a benefit for the Group. Shortly, I will address overall debt and gearing, and although we are seeing a pathway to reduce debt, we haven't reached that magic moment just yet. We are still in the tail end of the consequences and impacts of COVID, inflation, and a softer housing market, and an intensive period of investment in new product. I will talk to the current position now. Our debt is highly weighted to development debt and is supported by both current and future sales stock.
On the left of the slide, I provide the usual graphic to provide the snapshot of our current development debt drawn to the value of our underlying development assets. As I have indicated previously, our banking facilities are structured such that once developments are fully paid down, the proceeds from sales can be paid against current development drawings. As a result of this, we are in a position where we hold a healthy 1.15 times coverage of our development debt. At the interim results, we gave you visibility of the unsold development stock, which we were holding. On this slide, we have provided an updated position, and we will continue to provide this slide moving forward until the point that we get to lower levels of development stock on hand.
As I said back then, this is a key insight into how our current and future development stock will be used to repay development debt. We currently have NZD 147 million of our development debt, which is development work in progress. This is up from NZD 97 million in September as a result of the timing of completion of our developments. This will be recovered post-completion and in future periods. Unsold stock. This represents the cash recycling from the developments that I touched on. The faster we release these funds through sales to pay down our development debt, the faster we will return to gearing levels in the mid-thirties. Unsold stock has reduced by NZD 69 million in the last six months, from NZD 422 million at the end of September to NZD 353 million to the end of March.
With an average sales price per unit of NZD 327,000, care suites totaling NZD 51 million are currently occupied with transferred and PAC residents. These care suites represent 15% of the total unsold stock at March, and importantly, represent sales for future periods. These units are not readily realizable, but also provide an ongoing operating cash flow and reduced slightly since September. As the remaining balance, 60%, or NZD 213 million, relates to unsold new stock, which was completed in the last twelve months. This includes key developments, The Helier, The Bellevue, The Bayview, and Redwood, and is down NZD 42 million from September. Finally, the remaining 25%, or NZD 88 million of the unsold new stock, is, which is, readily available for sale, relates to developments completed more than twelve months ago. Momentum is now on our side.
We continue to focus on sales, and particularly to reduce our level of stock on hand, cash to be unlocked in future periods. My last slide of today touches on the balance sheet. As you will have seen from the previous slide, we are positioned well to sell through our current stock and move our gearing back to the low- to mid-30s. We are coming off the back of a number of large care and apartment deliveries. The timing of these developments has not been ideal, and as we came out of the COVID years and delivered to one of the toughest sentiment markets that New Zealand has seen, this has resulted in large levels of drawn debt, debt that has seen a peak as flat as Table Mountain.
In our favor, though, has been a low average cost of debt as a result of well-timed corporate bonds, a well-timed refinance, and a capital raise back at the beginning of this cycle. With this groundwork complete, our next refinancing event does not occur until FY 2028. This has meant that we've been able to maintain headroom on our covenants and have not needed waivers from our banking syndicate despite the tough trading environment. We are at 3.4x ICR with a 2x covenant, and we expect it to increase from here. Our loans are organized so that we can switch between development and corporate facilities. With favorable margins in the second half and pleasing progress with the divestment program, we have seen our headroom increase from NZD 88.5 million at the reporting date to circa NZD 100 million today.
Further to this, Brent spoke earlier to how 85% of our current developments will be delivered by the end of this calendar year. With future developments, you will see us focus more on filler product, a product which cash can be recovered more quickly. We are also in control of our own destiny as to where we deploy our capital and when. Thank you everyone for your time today. I am joined in the room by Brent and Heath, and we will now hand back to the operator and open the call for questions.
Thank you. A reminder that if you are participating in the teleconference, please ensure your webcast audio is muted to avoid an echo. You can mute the sound in the lower corner of the video player. If you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. If you wish to cancel your request, please press star two. If you're on a speakerphone, please pick up the handset to ask your question. Your first question comes from Bianca Fledderus with UBS. Please go ahead.
Morning, Brent, Kathryn, and Heath. So the first question from me is just around your new unit sale prices on slide 12. So overall, that's looking good, but apartment new unit sales prices fell, and I know you mentioned that depends on geography and product, but I was a bit surprised by that, given that's what The Helier will be included in. So would you be able to talk about what's driving that decline?
Yep, good question, Bianca. I think for us, it was really just mix. So, if we think about The Helier, the influence in that FY 2024 year has only been 13 ILU and 4 care products. So as a consequence, we haven't yet seen the material uptick that's going to occur in the apartment side. We've been selling through, obviously, some of our Awatere product in Hamilton, which has released Value, Bayview, Eden, the last of Eden, Bellevue, et cetera. So, most of it is actually just mix rather than anything that we see untoward in our actual apartment levels. Looking ahead, we obviously see, you know, stabilizing pricing in the market. We haven't been a price taker, we've been a price setter. You know, we're expecting levels to be up around there, if not well in excess of that as we sell through some of this premium product.
... Okay, thanks, Brent. And then just following up on the Helier. So you mentioned 25% of apartments are sold or under application and 20% of Care Suites. Could you share what percentage are actually sold?
So we have 13 ILU that have been recognized in April 2024. And we have 4 care residents. We have 7 under application, where we've seen settlements in May, April and May of ILU, and 2 additional applications for care residents.
Okay, and then, yeah, so okay. So you mentioned the residential property market is still challenging and impacting sales at that village. And so with these more recent ones, I guess, did you have to lower prices at that village or offer any sort of increased incentives?
We haven't lowered prices, no. And I know that's a question that's been on people's minds. It's actually been more just about confidence. People love the product. Lots of people are sitting there waiting for a stabilization of market. It's less about their expectations of what they're going to get from their homes, because a lot of the homes, obviously in the NZD 5, 6, 7 million dollar range that they are selling, they just want confidence that if they market and go through that change, that there's going to be a willing buyer on the other end. So it's actually been less about market prices and more actually about an incoming buyer. Are they going to be able to finance it? Are they going to be able to afford that financing at higher interest rates?
As Adrian moves us to hopefully lower interest rates towards the end of this year or early next year, then I just think that it will help with sentiment. People love the product, people are happy with the price, people are happy with the services, but they need to see some confidence. As people know, there's an abundance of listings, so eventually the market will clear that abundance of listings.
Yeah. Okay. But so based on that, it sounds like, first half of 2025 may still be quite weak on sales for the Helier, and then hopefully we'll see an improvement, yeah, sort of second half of 2025 for that village?
Yeah, I think, I think we're not, we're not necessarily seeing it the same as that, but, I think we're just being cautious, and we know that it's something that people are focused. It's a flagship property for us, so we're being cautious. But what we have done is run various scenarios, and under each of those scenarios, you know, we're confident that we will be cash positive, with the sales that we'll make out to FY 2025. So we would have recovered our investment effectively.
Yeah. Okay. Thank you. And then also, there was a decent uplift in payments to suppliers and employees. And I remember you mentioned that the Helier would have high OpEx from day one. So could you talk about what drove the uplift, and how much of that is driven by the opening of the Helier?
Yeah. Hi, Bianca. It's Kathryn here. I haven't got specific numbers for the call, but yeah, as you mentioned, a few of our sites, because of the timing of opening, will be running at a slight operating loss for the few months, and the Helier being one, and also some of the other developments Brent had spoken to. That's natural in the cycle of it, because of the level of service that we provide and the experience that we want for residents, we've always had the motto that the operating model will be there 100% on day one, even if there's only one resident, and that will decrease over time.
The other thing you will have seen is in our village segment, there's an intentional additional investment in marketing spend. In particular, we've been putting some more money into brand awareness. You guys, if you got on early for the call, will have seen our recent TVC campaign. So, we're really proud of what that's done and the insights it's bringing to future residents, and there's intentional spend from that.
Okay, and will that continue into FY 25, the-
I think what happens-
Marketing model set?
Yeah. So what happens, the latest advertisement, Father and Son, is part of a series of properties that we had. So the first property was our residents telling their stories. The second property was around a couple playing a piano in our care suites. The third property was around some residents moving into our apartments and taking their treasured dining room table. And the last has really been this notion around the care and the quality of care that we provide. So as a person's needs change, we are there, and I'm sure you love the theme song around sort of Lean On Me, and that's part of what we're trying to get to. That is the last of a major spend.
We've seen significant increase in familiarity, brand awareness, and we're, you know, excited with the properties that we've developed. So that marketing will taper. Where that marketing gets directed, Bianca, is into our inquiry levels, into our research and resident insights to drive... It's more demand-driven around improving our sales cadence and performance.
Okay. Great. Thanks. And then last question from me. So you disposed of some assets in FY 2024, some more, in the first half of 2025. Is that essentially the completion of your disposal program, or are there any other assets you are considering selling?
No, there are some more left there, Bianca, and in our financial statements, we have a disclosure as to the quantum of those. So yeah, there are, there are still a handful, but we'd hope to have those underway by the end of 30 September. So at the interim, you'll hear more from us on those.
Okay, great. Thank you. That's all for me.
Your next question comes from Arie Dekker with Jarden. Please go ahead.
Oh, good morning, and thanks for the presentation. Just starting on the development pipeline, so you've given a clear steer to nearing completion for most of it in 2025. Outside of Meadowbank and Franklin, where you're sort of commencing earthworks, are you going to commence anything else into FY 2025? And can you just talk about, you know, what we should be sort of expecting based on that, for delivery into FY 2026? Because it's looking a bit thin if you don't.
Yeah, well, it's interesting, Arie, because as we build, our debt goes up, so we get hammered for that. But also, we're in a situation where we need to obviously sort of temper that pipeline. So, if we think about into FY 2026, we're moving into these broad acre developments, and they allow for staging, they allow for acceleration of capital, if necessary. 2 obvious developments in Namara, and which is in Franklin in Auckland, but also the acquisition that we did some time back, Bream Bay, which is in Ruakaka, which allowed us to access you know a large site across the road as part of that transaction.
Coupled with that, we'll be continuing, we said earlier, future site developments at Bayview, future development sites where at Lady Allum, et cetera. So, part of that is the job of the new CEO, I guess, but part of it is also the existing team having a very strong view on right product, right place, and where we are in the cycle. We've had a very, very intensive investment period around apartments and Care Suites. We're coming out of Care Suites, we're coming out of apartments, we're going into other product typologies. You can even see with the deliveries that we have in the forecasting for next year, you know, roofs are on, and we're starting to get to sort of almost the final stages of those buildings.
There's plenty for us to pivot towards, Ari, and it's really a matter of, you know, in that Golden Triangle where we can see good support for the end product, you know, we're obviously going to go hard, but that'll also be part of, you know, Andrew and the team, and the new CEO thinking about where do we want to spend that next dollar in 2026.
While we haven't over this financial year started maybe the same amount of development that we have in previous financial years, Andrew's team has remained very active in advancing design processes for our other key sites. Elmwood—there's further stages of development there, Lady Allum, and Bream Bay, as Brent mentioned as well.
No, no, thanks, thanks. Yeah, no, I understand what you're, you're looking to manage. So, yeah, the commitments that sit on the balance sheet at end of financial year are NZD 45 million, that pretty much is associated with those completions and finishing at Meadowbank. And in terms of further density, you're not looking to open anything up at this stage in FY 2025?
Yeah, no, and I think that's a good question, and hopefully, that's what we're providing assurance around. So you're exactly right, Ari, that's what it is. You can see in the graphics, you know, scaffolding coming down, cranes are being removed, roofs are going on. In some instances, you know, if we take—think about Elmwood, we're, you know, we're nearly ready to, you know, to open the building. So, a lot of the future debt, if you like, or development debt, is already in train or being spent or has been spent, I guess, to bring that new product to market.
No, that's helpful. And then for final question, just on this vein of questioning. So the reason you haven't looked to increase your facilities is pretty deliberate. You're essentially, you know, you're not worried about the risk of settlement timing in this market because actually, you're not looking to commit to a lot of new development, and so you'll sort of finish off what you're committed to. It's not much, and for that reason, you haven't looked to increase your facilities on it.
Yeah, sorry, you go, Kathryn, and then-
Yeah, and Brent can add to this, but, essentially, yes, Ari, I mean, we're sitting at NZD 100 million of headroom today. That's plenty for what we need with the developments that we've got planned for the next, you know, 12-18 months. It's obviously something that we look at regularly, if the time comes in the future, then we'll look at it. I talked about, key refinance date is out to 2028, but obviously, we'll address it before we get to that point.
Yeah, and I think the other thing that we're mindful of, Ari, you know, it's not a great time to be negotiating with banks a favorable kind of financing facility at these sort of rates. So one of the hallmarks of Oceania has been to sort of pick windows, I guess, that bring our weighted average cost of capital down, bring diversity and tenure into our facilities, whether that's through bonds, whether that's through a refinancing event that Kathryn and I work through, to try and assist with that. But there's plenty of headroom, and this is a de-leveraging story for us. You know, we've got some fantastic product that we have in market.
We've got a recovering housing market sentiment, albeit it keeps getting kicked down the road, but, you know, we do see a recovering housing market into 2025, and we'll be focused on doing what we've done over the last six months. You know, getting through that sort of unsold stock and de-leveraging the balance sheet.
Great, thanks. And then just two quick final ones, hopefully. Just on the receivables, you know, that, that balance of ORA receivables is climbing. You know, the vast majority of it, you expect to realize, you know, within 12 months. Kathryn, could you just remind us what the approach is there in terms of what drives that growth and, you know, the short-term part of that ORA receivable to NZD 74 million now? And then also, what's driving the increase of the greater than 12 months from NZD 10 million last year to NZD 20 million this year?
Yeah. Thanks, Ari. So, yeah, you're right. The short-term receivable is ticking up at NZD 74 at March. What I would say is, though, and we obviously analyze this every month, the portion of that, there's a high portion that's with under three months. And as we bring more and more Care Suites to market, we are naturally gonna see that number increase. Care Suite's a needs-based product. It's one where we generally offer a 60-day deferral on entry, because the person needs to be in that day or that week, literally not having to sell their family home, to pay that, but it's just a matter of getting the paperwork in order. So it's a low-risk thing for us on the CapEx.
Occasionally, we'll allow a portion of an ILU to defer, a small amount, for a short term as well. And so it generally will build, but not age, if that makes sense. On the longer term stuff, again, occasionally, sometimes we offer a, a 10% deferral, or what you'll find is some of those have just, just only marginally ticked into the 12-month period. They're, they're not delayed forever, or not delayed till settlement, but they are more than 12 months, so we can't classify them as short term.
Sure. And then, final one for you, Brent, and look, I appreciate it's not something you'd be, you know, there to execute on, but, you know, you guys have had some success in getting, you know, close to book or around book for the divestments, albeit pretty small assets. Can you just sort of comment on whether the board has considered divesting assets of larger size, you know, given the large value gap that's there, and that being a potential means of sort of looking to close it?
Yeah, I think that's a good question, Ari. I mean, it's frustrating when we think about the value gap, you know, and part of that might have been sort of coming out of an index and, you know, and not having a marginal buyer for the stock at that time. But, I'm talking about the, you know, the shares, obviously. But, you know, from my perspective, we're in a situation where we look at the capital allocation of our sites. We looked at the portfolio transformation. So where do we want to be? Where do we know that there are, you know, good buying signals for residents? How do we create, you know, fantastic communities for people? And how do we make sure that these have embedded value that goes on? So how do we get that annuity?
So, Kathryn, myself, and the team went through, and we looked at sort of what's the trade-off between operating earnings, what's the trade-off around maintenance capital, what's the trade-off around competitive environment, what are our capital allocation rules and hurdle rates that we want to hit? That's how we came up with our initial kind of divestment portfolio. But we also know that we've got some crown jewels, so, you know, what do we think about those? Are we the best and highest owner of those in the de-leveraging of the balance sheet? At this stage, we've taken a pretty prudent approach. We have tried to demonstrate to the market that we have kept our operating earnings kind of roughly in line, and been able to recycle cash, and that's been our primary focus, first and foremost.
It will be for somebody else to consider, but I think we're pretty happy with where the portfolio is at. You know, I touched on it earlier, Ari. We've got about 21 of our total sites that represent about 85% of the NZD 3 billion. So we think we've got to the sort of portfolio that we want to keep, and we think that we're gonna start to see some pretty attractive annuity demise coming off that. Our occupancy is lifting, resident satisfaction is lifting, so it's a challenging one.
And we're also talking about a market where, you know, the types of sites that we have divested. There's, and we've spoken to it before, a theme in the service offering of those sites, largely care focused. And there's a reason why for the market that's out there, that's desirable. When you start going into the other end of our portfolio, it doesn't have the same features that obviously that market would look for. So it would be a completely different proposition.
Thanks, guys.
The next question comes from Aaron Ibbotson with Forsyth Barr. Please go ahead.
Hi there, good morning, and thanks for the presentation. Brent, good luck with your future plans. You know, thanks for good, robust discussions. I've got a couple of questions. I guess my first question is on, you know, what I would call core debt. I'm not sure what you would call it, but basically the difference between what you highlight as development assets and net debt.
So, you know, a year ago, you had NZD 600 of development assets, and NZD 550, call it, of net debt. And now you've still got NZD 612 of development assets, but NZD 630 of net debt, call it. So, you know, that's a quite material increase, and particularly in the second half, there was a big jump. I'm just trying to understand your view of this, and how you expect this core debt to develop as you potentially, depending on what the market does, sell down some of your inventory. Is this core debt gonna continue to sort of creep up, this difference between these two numbers?
Yeah, thanks, Aaron. It's Kathryn here, and it's a good question. But, I mean, a couple of years ago, three, four years ago, core debt, we'd really only use it as a kind of, you know, month-on-month working capital to have a buffer, and occasionally, from time to time, we'd use it for dividends. If you remember when we did, the project to purchase Remuera Rise and Green Bay, we used our core debt facility at that time, which is why it's ended up at a higher, more stable level. We have also been using it recently to buy small parcels of land, so you will have seen our disclosures, where we've been buying a few of the pieces of land at the back of the Helier. So I guess that explains why it's where it is at the moment. To your question about how do we see it-
Sorry, Catherine.
Sorry, yeah?
Yeah, buying land should not increase it, because presumably you pay, and then you put that land in, unsold, undeveloped land, no? So I'm looking at slide 14 here, and I'm comparing the 612 with the, your net debt number. So if you buy land for NZD 20 million, that 612 goes up by NZD 20 million, and your net debt goes up by NZD 20 million. So that gap does not open up because of land acquisitions.
Yeah. No, I understand, understand. I was just touching on the drawn amount to start with. So but kind of—so rounding out what I was saying, so the drawn amount and kind of that's where we've got to the level it is. If I answer your question first about how we see it going forward and, and what's going to happen with that core debt, we touched on a few times, myself and Brent, about how as we sell down developments, that cash obviously goes against the development facility in the first instance. And going forward, once we're at a cash neutral position, which we're expecting we will be by the end of this next financial year with the Helier, we can use those funds to be kind of allocated against our corporate facility.
So that will see us bringing that number right down and having more of a headroom in our working capital. In your note this morning, you also touched on how we can move between the two facilities, so between our corporate and our development. And so that's kind of the roadmap for where it's going. And yeah, I don't know if Brent wants to add anything about the
Sorry, Kathryn, I'm not asking... Sorry, Kathryn, I don't really mind which facility you put it in and how much you draw. I'm looking at the total overall amount, yeah? So you reported net debt of roughly NZD 630 million, yeah, and development assets of NZD 612 million. That's a negative NZD 20 million. At the half year, you reported NZD 634 million development assets and roughly NZD 607 million of net debt. That was a NZD 25 million positive. So you're the way I would think about core debt has gone up by NZD 45 million over the last six months. We don't have to call it core debt. We can just call it the difference between these two numbers.
It's gone up by NZD 45 million in the second half, so effectively what I'm saying is your development assets seem to have gone down a lot more than I would have expected, given, you know, what your sales proceeds are and how much CapEx you're spending. I'm just trying to understand, maybe these are the order receivables or something, but I'm just trying to understand why the difference between these two numbers have gone up by NZD 45 million since the second half, since the first half.
Yeah. Okay, I understand.
So some of the error might be buybacks, so that's probably a consideration. And-
That was positive in the second half, according to disclosures.
Yeah. So, I'm just trying to think about what is driving that difference that you've just given us. So let us answer it for you offline so that we've got time to just work through that. We don't have the materials in front of us. But if I think about what's happening with the development assets, some of that's going to be valuation, some of that's going to be buybacks, and how we've used the facilities effectively in our switching.
Your unsold new stock, has it been valued down in the half?
Not large, not on mass scale, but yeah, the other point that I'd add to these numbers is these come from our CBRE evaluation. So they are subject to movements in things like ingoing prices, even other little changes like, you know, parts of sites being changed. The, I guess, the treatment of how they're valued. We've had, you know, parts of sites that have been moved from being treated as development land actually back to going concern, so come out of some of the buckets in here, if you really dig down to that level of detail.
The other one, which you pointed, which you referenced as well, Aaron, is we refer to on this analysis for, I guess, for conservatism, we refer to unsold stock per our CBRE valuations, which doesn't account for, deferred settlements or, for sites that are, you know, there's a bunch of Helier sales which are not included in our unsold new stock, which settled after the balance date, for example. So that receivable is the other side of it.
Yeah, it's just a bit unnerving when, when these numbers move unexpectedly by such large amounts. But anyway, second question for me, just, you touched on CapEx and, you know, NZD 100 million being comfortably enough to finish off. I'm not sure if that's a net or a gross number, but I think it would be really helpful for me and others if you could go through, you know, what CapEx you've got remaining on sort of the three or four projects you're finishing this year, so Elmwood, Waterford and Awatere.
You know, how much—I mean, if I look at the pictures, it looks like it's not that much left, but I remember thinking that for The Helier, and it was quite a lot left. So I'm just curious to understand, is this, what, NZD 20 million a village or less? What are we looking here approximately to finish these four listed projects this year?
Yes. So I think
I appreciate there's other CapEx as well.
Yeah, yeah. No, you're right. And so I think the easiest way of probably looking at it is if I link back to the question that Arie asked, which was around the, in our stat account, where we talk about what are we committed to. So we're committed to another NZD 45 million in the next 12 months. That covers those, kind of the top half of the slide that Brent had of the pictures that are underway. That doesn't include the cost of Franklin. We're out for tender on that at the moment, so it includes what we need to finish the earthworks, but not the development as such. So I'd view it as NZD 45 million for Elmwood, Waterford, Awatere and Meadowbank. And then Franklin, as we said, we're the controllers of that destiny of when we start. When we do start, it's stage one will be a handful of villas. We're also going to start the development of the community center and the care facility at that time.
... That's super helpful, Kathryn, but just to spell it out, I guess Oren and I are asking the same questions in different ways. But looking at this then, and looking at your sort of wait-and-see approach to the new developments, which, you know, personally makes sense to me, it looks like CapEx can fall pretty dramatically this year and then again next. Is that fair, assuming no other dramatic developments?
Well, we can't. We don't have a crystal ball, Aaron, on where the market goes, but I think in essence, yes. I mean, that's all part of this transformation of the portfolio. You know, we grew the portfolio from NZD 900 million to NZD 3 billion, and now we're going through a tapering. You know, we had COVID and other activities that kind of meant that we were truncated with all of our developments coming on stream at the same time. Helpfully or unhelpfully, all of those developments as you are aware, were large scale, you know, capital-intensive apartments and/or care buildings.
So, I think what Kathryn and the team are referring to is there's some flexibility, I guess, in terms of how and when, and in, and in what proportions we allocate our capital going forward. We're not going to be stuck in the ground for, you know, 3 or 4 years with a, you know, delivery of, you know, 190 apartments or 160 care suites or things of that nature. So, that's a long answer to a short question. But, yes, capital can moderate from here.
The nuance is that this time 18 months, 24 months ago, we had twice as much under construction as we do at the moment committed, and this time last year had, I think, 409 units. So when we-whether we made new decisions or not, we were committed to those projects, whereas now, while we, we don't, you know, we're not giving guidance as to what those CapEx numbers are going to be, we have more control over, you know, whether we accelerate or delay further development.
Perfect. Makes total sense. Thank you very much.
Your next question comes from Stephen Ridgewell with Craigs IP. Please go ahead. Stephen, you are live on the call, you might be on mute.
Yep, apologies. Sorry, I was on mute. Just first of all, good to see the pivot in ICA development strategy to more broad acre and general tapering of development activity in the next couple of years. Just first one for Kathryn. Just for the divestments that you've announced and, you know, looking to settle, what is the expected EBITDA impact, or I'm wondering about the EBITDA impact from those divestments, please?
For the future ones? I know, yeah, good question. I might have to come back to you on that one. The ones that we've sold to date, it's only about NZD 100,000 impact. Going forward, it will be between NZD 1 million and NZD 1.5 million.
Yeah.
For FY25, it should be between NZD 1 million and NZD 1.5 million.
Okay. That's helpful, thanks. And then I guess just on the, the improvement in aged care EBITDA we saw in the second half, I mean, it was good to see, you know, following the, the HNZ funding increase. I guess, just interested, you know, do you see that run rate in the second half as kind of a, a good base level as we enter kind of the FY 25 year? You know, that per half, is that a sustainable run rate, or are there other kind of cost pressures that we should be mindful of, that, that perhaps it sort of dials back a little bit from, from where it's been? And then can you also just interested in occupancy exit rate, you know, towards the end of the period?
I think those are good questions, Stephen. We're actually really pleased with the direction of travel in the care business. It's been hard yards. We over-invested during COVID, as you know. We're starting to unwind that. I made a comment a couple of years ago that we'd become full-time recruiters, rather than running a business, you know, as we think about the unavailability of sort of clinical staff in particular. So what we're seeing is a very pleasing improvement in our wage-to-revenue ratios. We're seeing really, you know, a positive improvement in our occupancy, and some of our sites are sitting up around 100%. And, you know, as we're selling through our care suites and some of our new developments, we're seeing EBITDA margins improving.
We're seeing bed, you know, if we want to use non-GAAP measures, our EBITDA per bed materially improving. And that's before we get the, you know, the windfall of some of this new innovation around private paying care, and, and other forms of premiumization that's occurring in the portfolio. If the government are of a mood to improve funding, then that's a material, you know, improvement in our performance.
And because we have the right sort of platform in place now, then hopefully what happens is that is true margin improvement for us, rather than pass through. So I think from where we're sitting, we are actually seeing, for the first time in a long time, you know, a real improvement. Costs coming down, stabilization of workforce, medical cost inputs are coming down, occupancy is going up, and premiumization, i.e., the share of the wallet from our residents, is improving our overall kind of financial outcomes.
Cool. That's helpful. Thanks. Then maybe if I just go back to ask another question on debt. I guess if we go back to the interim result, you know, you probably asked this question at the time about the direction of travel, and I think the comments that we noted down at the time was an expectation from management that debt would be kind of steady or perhaps down a bit, depending on obviously settlement activity at Helier and a few other things. We've seen net debt sort of back up about NZD 26 million, half on half. I'm just interested, compared to the internal projections that you had, you know, six months ago, where what was kind of the key line item that was a little bit worse than expected? Was it mainly slower settlements at, you know, the Helier and some other sites? Like, just a little bit more color would be helpful, please.
Yeah, thanks, Stephen. I think probably the key thing is, a few of those divestments we thought might have settled in March. So you will have seen we've had another NZD 16 million of sales proceeds in April and May. We've got another, site that's under contract at the moment. Had they fallen into, 31 March, then we would be a lot steadier. As you say, there's a NZD 26 million uplift. Sixteen of that is funds that we've received post, the balance date. There's also a little bit of insurance funds that we would have hoped to have had by now, but that's kind of trickling through in May and June as well.
Yeah, but also, I think if we address the, you know, we probably expected to be a little bit further along in the, you know, in the sell down of The Helier. You know, the team have done an outstanding job, Stephen, as it relates to sales. 476, it's the best performance we've actually had. All of the markers from my perspective are up.
But, you know, those were very, very material kind of outcomes for us. So as Kathryn said, you know, you know, NZD 10 million in divestments and NZD 16 million in other elements, and then maybe, you know, 2, 3, 4 more sales at The Helier, we'd be back down to sort of, you know, our debt starting with a five rather than starting with a six. And so that's probably giving us some of the confidence that you're hearing on the call around this kind of de-leveraging and what's actually happening in the business.
No, that, that's helpful. Thanks. And just, just, just one last question from me, again, sort of... But maybe putting the, the front book to one side, maybe just looking at the cash generation from the existing assets, which is something we do, you know, track pretty, pretty closely, and, and you have good disclosure as a company that we can actually work that out. We can't actually work that out for a lot of operators, but, so we thank you for that. But I, I guess if you sort of look at the kind of operating cash flows and you back out the interest, you know, allocate that to development, back out the new sales receipts, and then subtract the maintenance CapEx, you know, I think the company on our numbers, kind of burned about NZD 27 million in, in FY 2024.
I guess I'm just interested, you know, how much of that is start-up losses on new villages? Obviously, there's been a lot of new product that you've come out with in the last few years. And then I guess the pathway, you know, to really get into a positive cash generation or positive cash generation from the existing, or back book of assets, I think would just be quite helpful, how management kind of thinks about that and perhaps the timeframe to achieve that as you start to kind of wind down the front, you know, the development book, you know, in the next few years.
Yeah. Thanks, Stephen. I'll start, and then I'll let Brent fill some of the gaps. So, you're right about the operating losses. Where we've experienced that the most is on our care developments. And so, as you know, we move over as many residents as we can to make them as efficient as they can from day one. But inevitably, until you've got a full building, there will be a little bit of a drag. And Elmwood comes online at the end of this year, so we'll have that impact in 2025. But that is really then the last of our brownfield care developments, so we do expect that kind of drag that we've experienced over the last couple of years will disappear in the future. And I might let Brent talk, too.
Yeah, I think you've covered it, you know, wonderfully, Kathryn. I think all that's happened, Stephen, is that we've had this pivot out of care, so we're doing the last of that large-scale premium care. And those assets are really... You've got to operationalize them from day dot, you know, and as a consequence, they come with a pretty heavy operating impact. You know, we're stopping that. We're moving away from that. We feel like we've got a pretty full portfolio now of where we want to be around care. And it goes to my sentiment around, you know, wage to revenues coming down, occupancy is going up, but also the disruption that we've had in our numbers in past years with decant residents, you know, undertaking intensive developments around care. We're kind of at the end of that.
So Elmwood is the last sort of major, you know, care suite delivery, and therefore, people will start to get a, you know, you know, confidence around NZD 18,000, including DMF, could be, you know, moving well into the 20s and possibly into the 30s over time. So that's probably what the strategic intent is. We've just got to deliver it to it.
That's helpful. Thanks. Thanks, Stephen.
Once again, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. Your next question comes from Nick Mar with Macquarie. Please go ahead.
Hi, guys. Just on the new sales stock, I was just wondering if you can provide any color? You kind of mentioned we'll start reporting it when we get to an appropriate level. Any color on where you think that should be for the business?
I think that a nice rule of thumb will be when we're at a point where there's nothing over 12 months, really. So it's kind of the general churn of what we're bringing to market each year, it's coming through. Yeah, I don't have a magic number, Nick. I'll probably stop disclosing it when people stop asking about it.
I think the other thing that I'd say, Nick, is that, you know, we've brought a lot to market, and what's helpful is that, you know, of the NZD 350-odd million, there's NZD 50 million that you can't sell anyway, because you've got a- it's already in occupation from previously being decanted. So you're down to NZD 300 million. Of that NZ 300 million, NZD 200 million of it is the last 12 months, and I think, you know, the, the desire is to get through that as quickly as we can. The NZD 88 million that's left over, we're already- you know, we're starting to see really good, you know, kind of applications on that part of the portfolio. So the team are desiring to have, as Kathryn said, sort of stock sitting not less than 12 months old from a seasonality point of view. But you know, we're starting to make the sort of traction that the market would expect us to be making on the inventories that we've built up.
... No, that's great. And then, I know there'll be some sort of different views as the new CEO comes in, but sort of medium-term development outlook for this business, I think 250 to 300 was sort of talked about before. You know, where do you guys stand today?
I think we probably stand to the, sort of, to the lower of that booking. I don't think we're gonna be rewarded for bringing 300 units to market tomorrow, until we can demonstrate that we've got through the stock that we've got. So the desire by the business is always to be in sort of the lower bands of 30%-35% from a gearing perspective. You know, that can change a lot by just having in, you know, your asset values being considered in a different way. But I think, I think the reality is, Nick, that the market is probably tapering.
The market is moving to product that, you know, you can see greater and faster recycling of cash, and it's less probably for us in terms of the development of our pipeline around, you know, 250-300 units per year. It's actually right product, right place, and then an ability to demonstrate pre-sales and adoption of the product that we're delivering. I think as a consequence of that, you know, we're probably, you know, something starting with a two, rather than ambitiously starting with a three.
On the back of that, you know, where do you see, you know, that sort of NZD 250 million of undeveloped land and WIP sitting? Where do you think that needs to sit as you transition to that sort of style of native development?
So, you mean in terms of landholding costs? You mean in terms of how quickly we turn that soil? I'm not entirely sure, Nick, what the line of questioning was.
Sorry, the sort of NZD 112 million of undeveloped land and NZD 147 million of WIP at the moment, you know, in aggregate, does that need to go up or down, or sideways to deliver what you're talking about in terms of the medium-term target build rate?
Oh, right. Yeah. Okay. I think for us, you know, we've got enough in the consent pipeline, and we're in locations that we know we've got a you know the right sort of resident at the end of it. But we've always been curious around and intentional around building optionality into the pipeline. You know, when we're in more favorable market positions, we did some acquisitions. Andrew looks at property opportunities every day. There's availability of land banks. So I think, you know, as market conditions improve, then that allows us to just be a bit more expansionary as we think about key locations that we might not be in, that we want to be in. But within the existing portfolio, then, you know, we've got plenty of time just to develop out what we have.
Okay. That's fine. Thanks a lot.
The next question comes from Shane Solly with Harbour Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning, and thanks, Brent, for your stewardship at Oceania. I've got two quick questions. The first one, just picking up on the getting cash neutral at the Helier in FY 2025. What's the sort of key stepping stones to get to cash neutral in FY 2025?
Not too many more sales, to be honest, Shane. I think the reality is that, you know, this project is gonna demonstrate some pretty compelling free cash flow above the original investment. It's also gonna give, you know, a pretty outstanding development margin. We don't put a lot of weight on development margins. Obviously, we focus on cash. But I think, from our perspective, if we think about the cadence that we're seeing, if we think about the elevated inquiry levels that we've got, you know, we've got a lot of confidence that, you know, a bunch of sales ahead of us get us there pretty, pretty quickly and leave plenty of cash for that sort of upside that the market's been expecting.
Great. Thank you. And just a second question then. In terms of your confidence to lift your build rate, and I appreciate what you've just indicated to Nick, but just what would actually see you want to lift that build rate? What, what are the sort of preconditions that you need to see?
Well, I think it's about the confidence of the residents. So if it's a care product, we've got to basically see that there's still a willingness for share of wallet, i.e., government slash resident paying combinations. If it's apartments and villas, then that's kind of, you know, right product, right place. So, you know, we've got some fantastic sites that we would accelerate with just some better market conditions. An obvious one is Lady Allum. We've built a beautiful care building there. It's already, you know, fully occupied and, you know, great reputation. And the site's available for some apartment developments, and those apartments would have outstanding views and be highly attractive to buyers in that precinct.
Particularly as other participants, other competitors, have pulled their product in, you know, close proximity to ours. So the market is opening up for us to develop. We need confidence that residents are gonna be able to sell through their houses or be able to sell through the share portfolios or other forms of assets to move into occupation with us.
Thanks very much. Appreciate the time.
The next question is a follow-up question from Aaron Ibbotson. Please go ahead.
Hey, Brent and Kathryn, apologies, but I just need to follow up on your, sort of unsold new stock and the valuation of it. Because it's, you know, if I look relatively to the half year, you've delivered... What did you deliver in the second half? 120 or something, and then you, you sold for NZD 60 million or something like that? You delivered 120 units, and then you sold for NZD 60 million. So I'm just trying to understand, you know, how this number went down by NZD 69 million or whatever you said on the call.
Yeah, I think,
423-353.
Yeah. So I think probably-
That's quite a big number, yeah?
Yeah. So I think probably given we are sort of 15 minutes over what we had allocated, Aaron, certainly, Kathryn and I, Heath, we're here, we're happy to sort of answer that question, and we're happy to make it available for others. So, can we take that offline so that we can actually do the math that you've just done to actually provide the, you know, the right response?
Absolutely. Thank you.
There are no further questions on the teleconference at this time. I'll now hand it back to Brent, Kathryn, and Heath to answer any questions from the webcast.
There was just a question, or there are a couple of questions from the website, but I'm pretty confident that we've covered those anyway. They were actually just around visibility of sales, and I think we've been very transparent about that. There were some comments around debt, and I think we've canvassed that, to a degree.
We'll certainly circle back on this last question that Aaron's raised. I would say, in conclusion, you know, this is my last time doing this for Oceania, and it has been an absolute privilege for me to work with this team. And I love this job very much. And I think Oceania has delivered a fair result to the market. We've got plenty ahead of us, and that's a great opportunity for the incoming CEO. But I do want to thank everybody for their support of our business. We've certainly enjoyed the robustness of these discussions over the years, and we're really proud of what we've done. So, thank you for people making time available, and engaging with us in the way that you do.
Thank you, everyone.