Good morning. Welcome to Hexagon's Q3 presentation. I will spend a few minutes initially on updating you on some of the strategic points, and then David will give you the highlights of the financials and also the outlook section. This is refreshing. Good morning. Refreshing the discussion we had at the last quarter, where we explained that we have, over the last few years, taken Hexagon from being primarily a Type 4 cylinder supplier to becoming systems and increasingly also a system integration company. Also, we've taken those solution from what we call G mobility or gas mobility and are now applying on E mobility or electric mobility, meaning that we are principally agnostic as to the fuel system solution for alternative fuel alternatives available today.
To the left, you see the quality traditional Hexagon fuels, CNG, and then we have RNG, renewable natural gas, and to the right, we have hydrogen electric and battery electric. We also think that there is a very interesting hybrid between G mobility and E mobility. If we look at what we mean by E mobility, there are basically three conceptual alternatives. It is pure battery electric to the left, and then we have fuel cell electric or hydrogen electric. In the middle we have what we call series hybrid or a combination between combustion engine generating electricity and then supplying the battery. Common for all of these alternatives is that you need a battery to fuel the electric motor. This is very core in our e-mobility strategy, where we today effectively act as a system integrator.
Some of these systems are proprietary, so our own systems. We have our obviously gas-fueled systems, hydrogen-fueled systems with our own Type 4 cylinders. We also have developed battery systems. We are not a battery cell supplier. We are sourcing from sub-suppliers. We are also sourcing the modules, but we're packaging these modules into optimized battery systems, battery packs. We are also integrating that with power distribution systems. In that context, the software necessary for that distribution is core and that is also proprietary technology of Hexagon. That enables us to source from third parties other components and systems, for example, the e-axle system. Going forward, we will combine all of these activities in Hexagon Purus, one of our business areas.
The hydrogen systems solutions that currently reside in Agility, as well as the battery electric system technology, will be transferred to Hexagon Purus, which will then be our vehicle for driving our E-mobility strategy going forward. In Hexagon Purus, from 1st of January 2020, we will maintain the light-duty vehicle business both on CNG and on hydrogen. We will also then, in that entity, have the medium heavy-duty battery electric and fuel cell electric systems. We will also have the distribution business for hydrogen or Mobile Pipeline for hydrogen, if you like. We also have that other box, which for now is a limited business, but where we see some very interesting, fascinating business opportunities going forward. Fast ferries is in there. The drone segment we believe will develop with the fuel cell technology. You also have rail in there and some other opportunities.
In new Hexagon Purus, we will then have the site in Kassel, Germany. We will also transfer MasterWorks, which is located in Taneytown. That will be a subsidiary of Hexagon Purus. We will split the engineering company in Kelowna, British Columbia, and have the E-mobility engineers then being part of Hexagon Purus. Likewise in Linköping, there will be an engineering community which will become part of new Hexagon Purus. By doing that, we will have, let's say, the highest growing activities in Hexagon Purus. Through 2019, we have enjoyed significant growth in this business. And it's a business now of approximately NOK 550 million in revenue year to date, or sorry, last 12 months. Which means that we will conceptually have two different business ideas, if you like. You have G mobility, where we will be focusing on profitable growth. We are in an early harvesting phase.
We have the E-mobility business, where we're still developing new technology and new solutions, and where we're still in an investment phase. With that introduction, David, this floor is yours.
Thank you, Jon Erik. I'll just take you through the third quarter 2019 financials. Firstly, the highlights. Continued solid Agility Fuel Solutions volumes for this quarter as well. We very much note the high transit bus volumes actually now constituting 40% of total revenues for Agility. CNG light-duty vehicle volumes, as Jon Erik pointed out, has continued to be strong. On the hydrogen side of Purus, dynamic market, very pleased to receive two new heavy-duty bus orders. We'll go into that a little bit later. Decent Mobile Pipeline volumes. We actually beat our personal expectations with stronger deliveries to Europe. We've now completed a rather large backlog that we came into the year with. That's positive, and we've also begun to start deliveries on RNG, renewable natural gas, contracts for Mobile Pipeline in North America.
74% year-over-year growth, be that quarter three 2018 was a weak quarter. Good to note, Digital Wave services testing business, also connected to Mobile Pipeline. MasterWorks have been giving satisfactory contributions for the quarter. LPG volumes have been seasonal, within expectations there. If I move on, starting with revenues on the left. We posted NOK 770.3 million in revenues versus NOK 276.7 million same quarter last year. Of course, this year we bring in Agility consolidated for the first time. You can see the growth there, NOK 494 million. NOK 410 million of that is for Agility. If you pardon me one second, I've forgotten my glasses. That's better. These numbers look much clearer now.
Yeah.
As you recall, the growth was NOK 494 million year-over-year. Agility has contributed NOK 410 million of that, good growth coming from our other business areas, again, particularly CNG light-duty vehicle and Mobile Pipeline. On EBITDA, we posted NOK 49.3 million versus NOK 39.2 million headline rate Q3 2018. Have to recall that Q3 2018 included a one-off, or at least an unusual item, a NOK 50 million reversal of our earn-out provision. That was connected to our xperion acquisition in 2016. Adjusting for that, Q3 2018 would be a -NOK 10.9 million quarter. You see good year-over-year growth, NOK 60.2 million there for EBITDA. Agility contributed NOK 36 million of that. That's also after investing in some of the growth businesses that we'll go into within Agility. Investment in Agility to those growth businesses was NOK 9 million effect.
Hydrogen, the ramp-up effect this quarter was NOK 20 million, that was versus NOK 15 million same quarter last year. As quarter threes go, for EBITDA, this has been a pretty good one in our history, and quite satisfied in that respect. Of course, we very much look forward to Q4 and continuing strong results. As we go over to the right-hand side, the net profit, we recorded NOK 55.5 million versus NOK 32.6 unadjusted last year. Here, we absorb the effects of the extra depreciation, the amortization of intangibles that comes with the Agility transaction. That effect was -NOK 49 million. Tax charges year-over-year were a NOK 23 million effect. Also the interest and leasing costs, -NOK 18. Most of that is due to the bond that we are obviously paying now, that we didn't have last year. That's for the acquisition of Agility.
By far the largest effect in there and impacting profit after tax then ultimately, is currency effects. We had a positive NOK 102 million year-over-year impact to currency, and more or less NOK 103 million for the quarter per se. Large currency effects acting positively or hitting our bottom line positively. We take a usual picture of starting with our group reported results we just went through, NOK 770 million on revenues and NOK 49 million in EBITDA. Got some good feedback last quarter, where we wanted to be a little bit more transparent on some of these investment businesses that are actually within the Agility business unit as well. In the middle section, call this our startup businesses.
We correct for the revenues and EBITDA effect or results of hydrogen, that's in orange. In the darker bar there, we look at the heavy-duty, medium-duty EV, battery electric vehicles area that Jon Erik covered. We have an anchor customer in Daimler, and we are funded by several pilot programs, actually, Daimler being the main one. Still, even though we have some good revenues there, NOK 25 million, we still have investment in the business, and have a minus NOK 3 million result in the quarter. The other business at the startup is the medium-duty business in Agility. This started from literally nothing and purchased some assets and some good people, and they are on their way to making that into a very profitable business. Today it isn't. This quarter, it had a minus NOK 5.5 effect on EBITDA and NOK 9.3 in revenues.
We're going to go into the UPS contract later on, and that will be the game changer for this business. This business is currently a NOK 60 million LTM annualized revenue business, and we can see a route to around about NOK 300 million, so 5 times growth within a two-year timeframe. That's the sort of effect that UPS will produce to that business. Not only UPS, but that will definitely take us to the positives over the next couple of years. To the right, when we normalize for that, we see that the rest of Hexagon has a healthy double-digit EBITDA margin of 11%. Switching gears, this is the revenue before eliminations of all the business units, and here we look at pro forma year-over-year. The left-hand side includes Agility.
It also includes Digital Wave, which was a new acquisition at the end of 2018 as well. Year-over-year, good growth on the top line. Agility, slight growth there on a NOK-for-NOK basis. When we look at the Purus side of things, we see NOK 151 million this year versus NOK 53 million previous year, most of that growth being the CNG light-duty vehicles. We see the rather weak quarter on the left-hand side for Mobile Pipeline of NOK 94 million and NOK 142 million, which is satisfactory as far as quarter threes go for Mobile Pipeline. LPG, we had on quarter 3 2018, quite a strong quarter three for LPG, NOK 152 million. We had more of a normal, usual seasonal quarter of NOK 118 million in sales this year. All in all, good growth. When we look at the cash side of things for the quarter, this looks at the movement within quarter three 2019.
We started at NOK 123 million in cash balances and ended up in NOK 164 million, an increase. Very good cash generation from our operations, where we exclude the impacts of operating working capital, plus NOK 88 million contribution. Operating working capital, which as you know is just strictly looking at the inventories, looking at the trade payables, looking at the trade receivables. That was more or less neutral, plus NOK 6 million. Two effects are happening there. Increase in inventories for the quarter, as particularly with Agility, as Agility gear up for a very strong Q4 and going into 2020. Positives offset by good performance on payables and receivables. CapEx, a fairly modest spend for the quarter of NOK 26 million, and we continue to develop some of our product portfolio, particularly in the Purus side of the business, spending NOK 13 million there.
Net movements in other financing, that's mainly our debt servicing of NOK 14 million. What does the balance sheet look like? On the left-hand side, you see an expansion mainly in the fixed assets area. Again, this is mainly the currency effects. A lot of those intangible and assets are U.S.-based, and with the weaker NOK, stronger USD, that has just inflated those balances for the quarter. Otherwise, you see in the lighter gray above that, NOK 797 of inventories, so you can see quite an uptick in inventories. Again, this is mainly Agility and looking to wind those inventories out over Q4 and Q1. Otherwise, the reduction there in receivables and the increase in cash. If we go over to the right-hand side of the balance sheet, favorable currency impacting profits and impacting then the equity picture. Otherwise, pretty stable.
We note that net interest-bearing debt then has dropped to NOK 1.136 million. The bond was for NOK 1.1 million, so we have net additional drawings of NOK 36 million. Satisfactory position on the balance sheet and liquidity aspect. We want to have a little bit more of an introspective into certain areas of the business units and particularly Agility. We will take some time to go a little bit deeper into Agility. Also, we will split out Hexagon Purus so you can see the two sides of Purus as they impact the financials, the CNG light-duty side and the hydrogen side, and provide some further explanations. Firstly, Agility. This is basically a collection of some of the good things that they do. The heavy-duty trucks area, picture of a UPS long hauler. Here, the penetration rates in North America are still around about 1.5%.
When you think about the future growth, this is certainly the area that's very exciting. Just doubling that penetration will have a significant effect for Hexagon. With UPS, we see that sustainability is becoming more of a factor in this area. Previously, it was quite economics driven, so what is the difference in price between the CNG fuel and the diesel fuel? Can I get a payback within the four or five-year holding I have before I turn over this vehicle in my fleet? With UPS really pushing the sustainability factor in the larger fleets, it's becoming more of an environmentally driven value proposition. That's very good for Agility. Transit buses, bottom on the left. These are return to base operations. They operate in cities. This is very much a sustainability, a clean air play. They happen to return a very good financial return.
They are long-hold items. They are often in service for about 12 years, for example. This is a very good sector for CNG. In America, the adoption rate's around about 30%-40%. Top middle is the medium-duty trucks. That's a picture of a school bus. In medium-duty, we offer propane and CNG solutions as well today. On the school bus, propane is actually around about 12% penetration in propane and school bus side of things. That's an active and good market for Agility. On the refuse trucks below, we have a picture of a Waste Management refuse truck or garbage truck. Waste Management are a very large customer of ours. Again, very ESG-focused.
Some of the Waste Management fleets, you can say the price of their fuel are around NOK 0.50, NOK 0.60, NOK 0.70 landfill prices, which makes it a very, very attractive economic proposition to run these fleets. Of course, in terms of the environment as well, clean air, low NOx, low particulate matter, very good value proposition. In North America, CNG remains a go-to fuel for these trucks, around 50%-60% adoption rate. We have the hydrogen trucks, which is a growing sector, as explained, and battery electric. On quarter three, to the right, I already touched this, a fairly flattish quarter. We had a strong quarter last year, relative to 2018, this is the weakest quarter relative to 2019. Pretty much flat year-over-year for the quarter. In terms of year-to-date, or LTM growth, way above 30% growth in Agility.
For the size of P&L, given this is half the size of Hexagon's or contributes to half of Hexagon's P&L, this is very good news. Coming back to this quarter, we saw continued growth in the European transit bus market, solid heavy-duty truck volumes, and also solid refuse truck volumes. That's despite, as we mentioned last time, a heavy skew of orders in the first half of the year. The second half is lighter, but still on a very good run rate. Margins are, you'll see to the right-hand side, are 9% for this quarter. Again, if we correct for the impacts of the startup businesses that I mentioned, the EV, BEV programs, and the medium-duty, it's actually a 12% underlying margin, which is where we'd like to have Agility. It remains self-funded. It's strongly cash generating.
Just to remind you, the LTM reported EBITDA was NOK 173 million, that's very good. I will say, however, that Agility, being end-to-end with the customer, actually then ties in a little bit more working capital than you will have in other businesses where we sell cylinders in Hexagon. Before Agility, we were around about a steady state net working capital of 11%, after Agility, probably around about 17%. Strongly cash generating, it also, on the upturn, does take up working capital. This is just a picture of the last five quarters of Agility.
In the bars on the top, the lighter color there represents the heavy-duty truck, the darker color, the next one down, the refuse, the orange is the transit, light blue you can just about see there is the medium-duty, and the bottom one is all the others, which is the BEV, the hydrogen trucks, but also parts services business. The first thing you can see is that by far what constitute most of Agility's revenues are those three areas today. In terms of what impacts these, it is very hard to show a regular pattern. Looking at the snapshot of the last five quarters will give you a flavor of some of the things that impact it.
If you look at the truck volumes to the left-hand side, Q3 and Q4 2018, the market was waiting for adoption of a new natural gas, natural gas engine, a near-zero Cummins engine, so near-zero NOx. In waiting for that adoption, a lot of orders also waited until that was introduced. It was introduced finally in Q2 2018. You saw quite a release of orders in the Q3 and Q4 timeframe. Those are certain factors that can happen. Heavy-duty truck. There are big fleet customers like UPS, big OEM customers. Depending on their order patterns, that can also impact in any one quarter. Certainly, the sustainability drive back to UPS is something that we will see impact this sector positively over the next three years of the LTA, at least. Refuse.
We had the major customer Waste Management in quarter 1 2019 and quarter 2 2019. You can see the particularly large areas for the refuse truck, 141 and 198. Again, they pulled a lot of their orders to the first half of the year. Then in transit volumes here, you see a nice increasing trend. The EU clean air directives are certainly accelerating demand in Europe. We have a very large customer in North America that we actually today supply just the cylinder, not the system to, but Europe is certainly coming up in terms of a transit bus market rather significantly on the G mobilities, on the CNG side of things, transit buses, but also as we'll see hydrogen and other zero emission solutions. That's great news for Agility, great news for Hexagon.
On the medium-duty, it's still growing, the UPS contract will certainly, as I mentioned, change the game going forward. Small sales now, but we'll already start delivering to UPS already in the fourth quarter. As I mentioned before, and I will mention later on, the Q4 2019 is still expected to be the strongest quarter of the year for Agility. That was Agility. Let's spend a little bit of time on the Hexagon Purus, the CNG light-duty vehicles business unit within Purus. Exceptional growth. We can see the picture of the LTM, the last 12 months per quarter and last five quarters, and certainly, we see this real growth curve. That's driven by Volkswagen. Its focus on fleet emissions or reducing fleet emissions, and they have actively expanded their range of CNG models and RNG.
Of course, this is the Volkswagen whole group, so then you have also Škoda, SEAT, as well as Volkswagen, to name a few. These volume increases are very good for us, obviously, but it also justifies then further investment into capacity, which we have almost in the area of completing the phase 1, but also importantly, increasing our automation and productivity in Kassel sites as well. Potential, as Volkswagen focuses on CNG and RNG, then that gives us at least the potential to export our Type 4 technology into other geographies. If Volkswagen is going to expand outside of Europe in this, then we would like to at least have our foot in the door there. We can see a route to this being a NOK 500 million revenue business unit already by 2021. Good news there. Let's look at the Purus side by side.
On the left-hand side, this is the CNG light-duty vehicle picture. When you look at it on a quarter-for-quarter basis, you see that growth even more market. Bearing in mind Q3 2018 was more or less standstill as the WLTP, the World Global Testing Program, was creating the bottlenecks. Since releasing from that and the exaggerated demand from Volkswagen, we see clear growth. On the right-hand side, clear growth and profits, I should say. On the right-hand side, hydrogen has a slightly different profile. It's in the investment phase, modest revenues, and of course, a negative EBITDA contribution in this investment phase. When you net Purus, you usually see a slight negative contribution per quarter. Going into the drivers of that for hydrogen, the revenues, at least from a year-to-date basis, they're split between quite a few longer term development contracts.
These development contracts can last for two to three years, and also commercial products. The split year to date at the moment is about 60% on development, 40% on commercial. That gives a meaning to the P&L because whereas we have very healthy gross margins on the commercial side of the sales, of course, we have modest cost plus margins on the development side. What you're getting from the contribution then will not typically cover your cost base. In addition, or your full cost base, I should say. In addition, obviously, we are investing in that cost base. We have increased the people in order to be able to handle all these programs and into the future, and obviously the infrastructure and footprint. It's really that fixed cost increase then that is driving most of the negative result.
It's also that in our top line, it's not a fully commercial top line. It's very much development project revenue. Okay. That was Q3. Now the outlook for the fourth quarter. Starting with Agility, we expect positive development across all segments. As we said, we expect this to be the strongest quarter of the year. Just to reemphasize, the medium-duty sales to UPS will already begin in the fourth quarter, but we expect strong transit bus. We expect good truck volumes as well coming through. Let's spend some time on this LTA with UPS. This is Agility's largest ever long-term agreement with UPS. It's another three-year exclusive agreement, it's worth from $65 million-$95 million. That's around about NOK 0.6 billion-NOK 0.9 billion.
This LTA is to supply CNG fuel storage and management systems, the whole integration package, which we do, for medium and also heavy duty, and also terminal tractors. These vehicles that move large weights around, for example, large freight around ports. UPS will definitely commit to buy more than 6,000 CNG trucks between 2020 and 2022, and potentially larger, hence the range of values given there. This is great news for Agility. Compared to the last LTA signed in 2016, this is two and a half times that value. If there's ever a need for a data point, which is showing that sustainability is really driving the picture, it's UPS. This two and a half times contract value, of course, requires capacity to produce, and we're already in the middle of a capacity program, and we will be in place to perform to that contract.
We think it's a great contract. Of course, this is just part of a $450 million investment by UPS. As the quote says at the bottom from the chairman and CEO, "Our goal is to run 25% of the vehicles we purchase in 2020 on alternative fuels." Very aggressive. Moving over to Hexagon Purus and hydrogen. I mentioned the two new bus contracts. Solaris is a partner we've had on the CNG side. We've sold over 1,000 buses to Solaris, so they're a good customer of ours. They are now also expanding, responding to those EU clean air directives, looking at their zero emission portfolios, and now already expanding into hydrogen buses. Begins with a small order and expect delivery in the third quarter, but hopefully bigger and better things. Also Portuguese CaetanoBus.
That's a new one for us, and we have two initial prototypes, which will be completed for delivery in 2019. I would just point out that on Caetano, they are also part-owned by Mitsui. Mitsui is a large shareholder in us, so we're able to leverage that relationship successfully. On light-duty cars, you saw the pictures of the SEATs in front there. For Q4, we expect more of the same. We have good backlogs, so we should be on a par with Q3. Very interesting to note that Germany seems to be increasingly a G-mobility center. The Federal Minister for Economic Affairs and Energy is now pushing for 3 million natural gas vehicles on the road by 2030. A couple of years ago, we were talking about 1 million vehicles by 2025. This is a very pleasing development in the market in looking at the country, Germany.
Looking at Volkswagen again and SEAT, they are participating directly in renewable natural gas projects, part funded by the EU. They're really looking into how to power their cars or part of their fleet then with RNG, which gives a fantastic GHG emission footprint. Picture from Lincoln, Nebraska, home to our TITANs. That's a TITAN 4 on the road. Beautiful picture. Mobile Pipeline will continue to be challenging near term. Underlying market drivers are supportive, but it is a fight. We do expect some customer delays into Q1 2020. Although we did get some benefit in Q3. Also we'll continue deliveries to RNG contracts. Yeah, visibility is always a little bit low here. As I said, we can see that there is good action in the market, but it's difficult whether you land these contracts in Q4 or Q1.
We also have a very positive services business contribution from Digital Wave. This is a testing of our composite tank vessels. They also have technology to test other metal-lined cylinders as well. Very good technology company there and actually delivering good margins. We expect Q4 to be more of the same also for Digital Wave. Hexagon does steadily increase its services business with the help of Digital Wave. Ragasco, we expect more of the same, another seasonal Q4. Remember that the first half of the year is very much boosted by the leisure applications, barbecues in the summer, et cetera. The usual slowdown the second half of the year, so Q4 won't be any different.
We will have the usual maintenance closure in December and do all our repairs that we need to do. Here we also note some potential postponement of volumes from some of the European customers. Also we're balancing that with our increased penetration in Bangladesh, which has been a very good contribution to recurring revenues, particularly in 2019 and will go into 2020. Overall, what does that mean? Q4 is looking strong. Again, we just put some caution. There's some risk to revenue in LPG and Mobile Pipeline. Agility and CNG, LDV will remain strong contributors to profit. The underlying drivers for greener mobility are strong and very much in place. With that, I'll have Jon Erik come and we can maybe do some Q&A.
Mikkel Nyholt , Carnegie. First question is on the overall outlook and the confidence for Q4. You mentioned now during the presentation that Q4 still ramps up to be the strongest quarter of the year. Looking in retrospect of that same guidance you gave in Q2, my impression were that Q3 probably came in slightly higher than at least what market expectations were. The question is, has Q3 improved through cannibalizing some of the earnings you expected to be postponed into Q4? Or has Q3 just been better than expected and Q4, looking from a Q2 perspective, are still shaping very strong?
A touch of both. I would just say Mobile Pipeline, we certainly had more deliveries than expected fall into Q3 that we thought would be in Q4. There's some cannibalization there on the Mobile Pipeline. I think on the LPG, that's still as we expect, but we just highlight with Bangladesh, it depends on financing the orders, so there's always can be some delays there. That's just falling into Q1 2020. Hopefully it doesn't. Yeah. I think those are the main effects. It's still looking strong, Mikkel.
Speaking on Bangladesh and Ragasco. Ragasco has delivered quite steady EBITDA margins around 20% for many years. With Bangladesh now being a large contributor this year and probably will also in 2020, another market, it seems maybe that margin level, it'll take some time to regain that. Do you foresee ever recovering to the 20% levels or are the long-term target for Ragasco being more in the 15%-17% range? Can you elaborate somewhat on that?
I think you're right. There is a softness in the European market. We believe that to be temporary. There are several contributing factors. One being relatively warm autumns and winters with lower profitability in the underlying LPG markets than was the case in the previous years, and leading some of the distributors to rationalize on their CapEx. That can only last for so long. We expect that market then over time to get back to where it was. We see no reason why the margin picture should change significantly in that region. Of course, developing new regions is always costly. I don't think as we grow the business into other regions, that we necessarily can maintain the same margin levels on average. In absolute terms, I think we should look forward to recovering over time.
Temporarily, there is some risk of that current softness continuing into 2020.
Lastly for me then would be on the pipeline activity for new initiatives. Now it appears that you're not pushing as hard on hydrogen as the one future alternative fuel, but it's more a broader base of clean fuels that you're running for. Are you able to say anything about the number of demoing contracts or prototype deliveries or just the number of tenders that you are participating in and how that has developed over time? Has the momentum increased or are we at a steady state level or what can you say about momentum?
Firstly, I think we have been fairly agnostic consistently. I think we've consistently said that we don't believe that there will be one solution, but that there will be a mix of several. As we gain more experience, our view is confirmed. Today we are quite convinced that it will be a mix with different technologies being the solution in different regions. In most regions, you will have a combination of both gas technologies, fuel cell hydrogen, and battery electric. What we also observe is that there is a relative shift from the light-duty segment, which was very much in focus two, three years ago with regard to hydrogen. There is today more focus on heavier duty vehicles and other transportation means. That makes sense because the heavier vehicle, the heavier the battery pack and the more logic to apply hydrogen.
I cannot quote an exact number of tenders or projects out there, it is a constantly increasing and very dynamic marketplace. I also have to caution, it's still very early days. I think some may have an expectation that the hydrogen economy is going to develop faster and sooner than we believe it will. The development has started. Meanwhile, we are strongly positioned in CNG and RNG, renewable natural gas. We also have our battery electric technologies. That's why we are quite agnostic and relaxed about that pace. All in all, it's an exciting development also on the hydrogen side