Good morning, and welcome to this Earnings Call presentation for the Q3 2021 by Kongsberg Automotive. I will now hand over to Joerg Buchheim, the CEO and President of Kongsberg Automotive.
Thank you very much, Jakob. Welcome as well from my side to the Kongsberg Automotive Q3 2021 Earnings Call. If we're gonna move to the next slide, please. Again, my name is Joerg Buchheim. I'm the CEO and President at Kongsberg Automotive. I'm joined by my colleague, our CFO, Frank Heffter. I would like to welcome you to our Q3 Earnings Call by providing you an insight on our Q3 highlights, the financial update, and followed by a year-end outlook and guidance. If we're gonna go to the next slide, please. This is our forward-looking statement where our lawyers always proving our eyesight. Allow me not to read through, and I would like to move to the next slide, please. That's the summary and highlights. Going then into the details on slide five, on the revenue slide.
We had a good Q3. As you know, the seasonality of revenues means that the Q3 is lower than the others due to summer holidays. Taking that into account, it was with almost 5% increase compared to the Q3 2020, still a good quarter. Its underlying growth close to a level of Q3 2019. Our adjusted EBIT was, of course, impacted by the supply chain situation, but we have seen some great business wins which brought our book-to-bill ratio up to 1.5, and strong positive cash flow of EUR 7.6 million. With this, going to the next slide. As we mentioned after the previous quarter, we are currently undergoing a company-wide transformation program, which we have called Shift Gear. The first gear is improving the performance of our existing business.
The second gear will ensure that we have the optimal product portfolio. The third gear will ensure that the business is both financially and environmentally sustainable. The performance improvement has already helped us to offset the impacts of supply chain situation by improving our supply chain management or operational and commercial excellence. The team did here an excellent job, and we set our targets as well for the next year continuously at a EUR 20 million potential saving level on a sustainable base. However, we want to make sure that our business is focused on areas where we are or can be second to none, or better to say, a top three industry leader and supplier. This will allow us to build highly valuable business on the strengths of our engineering, on our operational excellence, and build on strong relationships we have with our customers.
Therefore, we have launched a product portfolio transformation process as our second initiative within our Shift Gear transition program. Here I'm glad to refer to yesterday's announced strategic divestments within our Interior business segment, where I would like to elaborate more in a minute in the outlook part. Looking then into the slide seven, please. Before we are coming to this, I would like to look with you first at the three different segments, where the situation varied in Q3 as follows. The PMC segment showed good performance despite the supply chain situation, upholding revenues compared to the same quarter last year. Adjusted EBIT is down, again, due to the current situation, but we had some great business wins which set us up well for the future. Interior had a more difficult quarter, with a small decrease in revenue and a negative adjusted EBIT.
Here we also saw strong business wins with annualized revenues of more than 50% of our current revenue won this quarter. Specialty Products grew strongly, with almost 20% revenue increase and some good business wins. This segment also saw some decreases in adjusted EBIT, but is still our most profitable business. It also showed excellent continuous business wins during the quarter. There are details about previous quarters in the appendix, so you can see there's a very positive trend here. Q3 is usually a weak quarter for business wins because of the holiday season, so this has been an outstanding quarter in this regard. Please go to slide eight. These are some of the key contracts which make up the business wins I just mentioned.
I won't go into detail here other than to point out that the contracts underscore the global and diversified nature of KA's business, as well as our excellent book-to-bill ratio and the strong commitment of our customers to KA. We are continuing to share this with you on actual events by our media and social media platforms proactively. Heading to the next slide, I would like to hand over to Frank Heffter for details on financials. Frank.
Yes. Thank you very much, Joerg, and also a warm welcome from my side. Happy to provide you some more insights into our financials. If we look first of all on the overall revenue and adjusted EBIT figures, then we have to mention that the Q3 seasonality kicks in here, and therefore, the most meaningful comparison is against the Q3 of 2020. Yes, this was impacted by COVID, but on the other hand, we are still facing the semiconductor crisis this year. When we look at the overall number, EUR 267 million in revenues in Q3 2021 compared to the EUR 255 million, 4.8% growth.
Some tailwind from currency, which adds around 1 percentage point, a bit more than 1 percentage point to the growth, but more than 3% coming organically. If you look at the segments, obviously the strongest growth fueled by our Specialty Products segment, which at the same time is the most profitable one. Good mix. On the group adjusted EBIT, we see a decrease compared to Q3 2020. Here, obviously, the semiconductor and raw material crisis has a major effect. Although we are able to offset some of it in the same quarter, there is a timing difference and therefore a net negative effect also in this quarter, which exceeds EUR 15 million in adjusted EBIT.
Taking this into account, the profitability would be more in the range of EUR 22 million and thus with almost 8% on sales, an expected performance. When we go to the next slide, we see the development in the different segments on powertrain and chassis and interior, more a flat development on the top line. The underlying impact from semiconductors are actually exceeding EUR 10 million in powertrain and chassis and about EUR 5 million in interior where we have lost revenues. These are partially compensated by reimbursement from customers for extra costs in the range of EUR 3 million to EUR 4 million. This net effects are then weighing on the top line.
In specialty products, there is less of an effect on the top line. We see strong growth and also good to note is that this growth comes from all three businesses, be it Off-Highway, be it Couplings or FTS. When we look at the profitability, we see in powertrain and chassis the impact from the volume that is even more pronounced, like I mentioned, than you see in the top line due to the customer reimbursements, the material cost increases that we faced in the quarter. Here, a deterioration to around 5%. In interior, we see a recovery from the Q2, but still below breakeven performance. Again, semiconductor is weighing in here, as well as material costs and freight.
As we have the timing issue on recovery, this is still visible this quarter. We should see a significant improvement here in the next quarter, where this actually turns into a slight positive net effect, our expectation. The worst I'd say on that is over. On Specialty Products, on the EBIT, we have had certain impacts from semiconductor and Off-Highway that weigh on the margin here and, to a lesser extent, some higher costs. We have, compared to Q3 2020, invested significantly also in the growth of our profitable business, added engineering resources that are working on the new business wins and making sure that we see profitable growth going forward.
When we look at the cash flow development, then I'd like to highlight here the strong operating cash flow from operating activities with EUR 23 million, including an improvement in net working capital of EUR 4 million. That is certainly a good performance for the quarter. Once again, we have tightly managed the CapEx in Q3 and selectively invested only, so a cash outflow of EUR 8 million only in the quarter.
Like in Q1, we paid our bond interest and some other financial costs that then led to a net outflow of EUR 12 million from financing activities, some tailwind from currency, which then resulted in a total of EUR 8 million of positive cash flow. When we look at the group liquidity development then compared to the last quarter, you see an improvement from EUR 205 million to EUR 211 million, a EUR 6 million improvement, where that arises from the cash flow, and we have paid back EUR 1.4 million on the ABS that therefore only increases the balance by EUR 6 million, whereas the cash flow is EUR 8 million.
To highlight here again the positive impact from earnings and net working capital and the selective investments I've already mentioned. When it comes to overall liquidity availability, we are still having at the end of Q3 the unutilized securitization program with EUR 60 million and the undrawn revolving credit facility of EUR 70 million. Needs to be noted here that part of that EUR 20 million that we added back in April 2020 was expired or is expired beginning of October. So as of today, there is EUR 50 million of capacity available. With this said, I will hand back to Mr. Buchheim, Joerg, for further elaboration on the outlook.
Now that we are past the section dealing with the Q3, thank you very much, Frank. We can say a little bit more about the transactions we just announced yesterday. We have, of course, communicated earlier that we are looking at structural changes as part of Shift Gear, but now we can show our work in the form of these Kongsberg strategic-driven divestments. While Interior has been an important and always important area for KA and one where we have developed certainly some key technology, it is a sector where scale is very important, both to counter cost pressures and to deal with the tendency of OEMs to vertically integrate, which we see strongly. Lear has the scale to do this and will be a great new home for our ICS unit.
Similar light-duty cable is very solid, but rather traditional technical business where we are convinced that Suprajit Engineering is a specialist in the sector, can provide economies of scale and leverage a wide global footprint while also uploading their product line with our electronic actuation. A great fit as well. Both transactions are providing us now the opportunity to consolidate all our resources, strengths, and focus on our high-potential businesses in on- and off-highway. Here we are undergoing a strong transformation with high speed on making all our products fit for the electrified and autonomous vehicle future by upgrading our current product portfolio, creating smart systems, and conquer new markets and high-potential so far underdeveloped regions. A great outlook. Slide 16, please. As you see from the numbers here, the transactions are accretive by most key performance measures.
Just as an example, revenue and earnings per employee are by this much higher than the current levels for KA. This will set us up for stronger profitability from 2022 onwards. There are, however, some one-time transaction costs, which mean that we won't see the full benefits already in 2021. Just as a heads-up, we will report these units as discontinued business in 2020, so the impact on our 2020, 2021 guidance varies slightly. This leads us to the next slide. Seventeen, please. Yeah. As everyone who follows the automotive sector is well aware, the semiconductor supply chain situation is causing problems all through the value chain, and this is going to continue, certainly.
We are mostly impacted in the interior segment and to a lesser extent in the powertrain and chassis segment, although there are others, let's say, indirect impacts of higher raw material cost, freight, energy, and availability throughout. We are continuing to strongly counter these impacts with steady results out of our Shift Gear performance improvement program. Further, as a result of the transactions, we are going to report a revenue of EUR 800 million. Despite an around 28% take out of revenue, I'm glad to confirm that our latest 2021 guidance remains at EUR 50 million EBIT for the year-end, while the cash flow is predicted to be slightly positive despite almost EUR 15 million one-time deal expenses. In terms of 2022 guidance, some of what we have already talked about is of course, important for the outlook.
The business wins means that we have a solid order book and a 1.5 book-to-bill ratio. In the current situation, it's really difficult to forecast at this moment. We will therefore provide the guidance for 2022 at the annual results presentation for 2021. Please stay with us on that. Finally, prior to moving to the Q&A session, please let me point out that we are going to invite you to join our special divestment-related call at 10:30 A.M. CET, where we would like to provide you more background. With this, I would like to open up the Q&A.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, please signal by pressing star one on your telephone keypad. If you're using a speakerphone, please make sure your mute function is turned off to allow your signal to reach our equipment. We'll pause for just a moment to allow everyone an opportunity to signal for questions. Ladies and gentlemen, once again, please press star one to ask a question. Once again, ladies and gentlemen, please press star one to ask a question.
We can perhaps start with some of the questions that are coming in through the online interface. We have a question. There are several questions, which I'm going to summarize because they're all covering the same thing. What was the revenue and EBITDA for the divisions that are currently being sold off? Can you say something about that?
Like we have stated in the announcements, the to-be-divested businesses comprise around EUR 320 million of sales and slightly negative EBIT margin. The current performance is in line with these full year numbers.
Okay. Thank you, Frank. There's also a follow-up question regarding the plans for the proceeds. We have said something about this. Perhaps you could elaborate a little bit to answer the caller's question.
Yes, certainly. Thanks a lot, Jakob, and thanks for the question. Certainly, we're looking into all options how we are going to deal with the proceeds. What we are definitely doing here, strongly considering to deleverage our debt as one of the options. All other options are as well under evaluation, but certainly going to support strongly the development of the shareholder value here.
Okay. There's quite a lot of questions coming in regarding the transactions, some of which we will perhaps keep for the call that we are doing later regarding the transactions. I will focus on the questions that are related to Q3. There's a question regarding the one-off raw material impact on EBIT in Q3 and whether we could quantify the impact there.
Yes, we certainly can. Like I have mentioned, it has been, I'd say the worst quarter in that respect. We continued to, you know, purchase certain parts on the spot buy market in order to secure deliveries to customers. These actually exceeded EUR 10 million in the quarter, plus higher raw material and freight costs. Overall, an impact of around EUR 15 million. Half of that has been offset in the quarter by direct reimbursements from customers through one-time payments. Therefore, still a negative effect in the quarter, which we expect to reverse going forward. Additional payments will come in, but only to a lesser extent, additional costs shall occur.
Thank you, Frank. There's also another question regarding the semiconductor situation. Do we have any comments on how we see the outlook for the semiconductor problems?
Yeah. It's difficult to exactly predict because there are multiple different effects. It's not only actually semiconductor. It's clear it's going to continue in 2022. What we are going to expect is that there is a washout in the market in this regard that we in general will see an entire market price increase throughout the value chain. That's what's gonna be expected for next year. Crucial is, in the first step, that this is balanced out among suppliers and customers. This is a step where we're seeing a strong movement towards 2022. Yes, the semiconductor shortage is going to continue for next year until the 90 nm wafers are in a broad and wide way available again, but there will be a balance in the entire price segment here in the industry.
That's what we're expecting. It will be a more fair balance in terms of suppliers and customers. We are cautiously optimistic in this regard.
Okay, thank you. There's a question regarding the time lag of the raw material prices. What is the time lag of passing through the raw material prices on average? Are we passing it through on a backward basis as well?
There's as well, I mean, difference. It's different between, well, let's say it varies between business units, and it's different in regions and in regard to cost origins. When we are talking about semiconductors, for instance, we were quite successful in a forward-looking way, and this has already helped us in Q3 to limit the damage. We're on the semiconductor more on a 50/50 basis here minimum, in certain regions, on a 100% basis. We did here a big step forward in cooperation and partnership discussions with our customers. On raw material, we started certainly as well to limit now this damage coming up, similar to the energy cost. As well here we have entered into discussions with our suppliers and our customers, on a partnership way.
We are as well cautiously confident that we are getting better results as well, and positive effects in order to counter the overall impact of these increased costs. Cautiously optimistic, started to discuss, and as I said, I'm expecting that this is an overall and widespread approach, which we are going to see as a balancing out and sharing the pain between suppliers and customers throughout 2022.
If I may add to that, when we look at our contractual measures, when it comes to raw material clauses, you find typically three to six month time lag when adjustments are being made to the raw material indexes or prices. What we are entering or have entered are individual dialogues with customers about earlier, you know, upfront true-ups given the magnitude currently and that is underway.
Okay, thank you. Following on from that, we've a question: How close are you to achieving the stated goal of double digit EBIT margins? Would this have been achieved if the current supply chain situation was resolved? I think you did mention something about this earlier in the presentation. Perhaps you could elaborate.
Yes, certainly. I mean, long term, as I've mentioned, it's our clear strategy, and that's part of our product portfolio transformation as well, to become here a sustainable two-digit EBIT supplier. That's where we are heading to. You saw that as well in our clear vision and future requirement. We wanna be active. Wherever we are active, we wanna be second to none or among the top three suppliers and partner of choice for our customers. That's crucial in order to generate a sustainable two-digit EBIT. If you're looking into the strategy and looking into our long range plan, we certainly see these two digits coming up. How quick is now really depending on the, let's say, stabilization and back to normal situation in the automotive market.
This will be certainly not next year, the two digits, because of the ongoing crisis. Certainly, we will see that along the next years as a very achievable goal. That's one of the, let's say, reasons as well that we went strategically for divestments.
Okay, thanks. There's a related follow-up question. You mentioned the net negative effect of raw material and semiconductor shortages of EUR 7 .5 million. What is your estimate on the 2021 total negative effect?
The total net effect for the year, including the compensation, direct compensation from the customer thing is in the range of EUR 20 million to EUR 25 million. We have stated that the gross effect is in the EUR 50 million range and that is still a reasonable estimate. It didn't get worse necessarily, but it also did not significantly improve.
Yeah. What we're seeing actually is more indirect effects that our customers, the automotive car manufacturers here reducing their top line further. We see it in the media day by day that they are forced due to other supply shortages or other supplier shortages have to reduce their production output. This indirectly affects us continuously over, as well over the Q3 and in an outlook towards the year end until this is stabilized.
Okay. We also have a couple of questions regarding the R&D and CapEx levels going forward after the divestment, whether we're expecting this to increase or to remain the same.
There's certainly the expectation that the CapEx levels will decrease as the two divested businesses were CapEx intensive. We still want to fuel the growth of the remaining business in order to generate additional value. The overall amount should decrease from current levels. On the R&D side, same also here. The to be divested businesses had significant resources in engineering that will be divested as well. We're not expecting, you know, to build up resources in the same magnitude, although we will invest in the remaining business.
The attractiveness to add that, of the, so-called remaining, products and segments is certainly that, these segments are well prepared and having, let's say more, much more opportunities currently to generate growth and revenue with limited CapEx. That's for sure, and part of our Shift Gear initiative.
Okay. Thank you. We have a question on whether we see downward pressure on prices when products are nearing the end of a life cycle or at renewal. Whether we see the downward pressure on prices being similar or higher or lower than the pre-pandemic periods.
No, actually, we don't see that. Actually, these circumstances at the end, I mean, if you're gonna come to an end-of-life project cycle stage, then you actually see that product investments or project investments are amortized, assets are depreciated. It's actually you run through all cost optimization and all price reductions. It's actually a good time toward the project life cycle and in terms of profitability. We don't see here any difference in this regard post-corona or compared to today. We don't see here any abnormal or any additional risk.
Okay. Thank you, Joerg. We also have, there's quite a few questions regarding the portfolio modernization. As you mentioned, we will be elaborating on that at our capital markets day in December. Perhaps you could say something more about the battery thermal management system, which we published something about on social media a few weeks back. If you could say something about how that is being developed and whether it's being developed for a particular customer.
Oh, yeah, certainly. I mean, in general, we will elaborate certainly a little bit more on the divestments at our 10:30 A.M. Call, and please be all invited to join us here. Again, I mean, transaction goes along with our transformational program at Kongsberg. Looking, for instance, then in our very promising upsides which we can generate, and this we're seeing out of our strategic workshops and directions here in Kongsberg, which we continuously drive on top over the last weeks, is we see here really fantastic synergies. For instance, this battery thermal management system is one of it, which we see as a really very promising future business, providing our customers a real benefit beyond what is available today at the market.
What we are doing here is we're combining our different business unit knowledge and as well as our product portfolio to generate here a creative system. For instance, we're gonna go with the coupling systems, which has a fantastic business case here in the market in total cost of ownership. We're adding here our fluids, our pipes out of our fluids business division, where we have a lot of knowledge in terms of flow characteristics, which we can provide here as a real system know-how. We are adding the valve, the distributing valve business for cooling a battery and the related other parts as the entire thermal management cycle, heating the car, cooling, heating the battery. It's much more complex and upgradable as a modular system.
We're adding the valve from our powertrain and chassis, and then we are adding, and this is certainly new additionally, and that's a future trend here in Kongsberg, where we are carefully and strongly looking into it, adding electronic know-how. We are happy to use our Off-Highway electronic engineering team in Schaerbeek, for instance, but as well in Texas, to really provide us here then as well a control unit and including software to get this entirely managed. For instance, one of the benefits, what I'm talking about looking into this is certainly today you have battery management system very much related to a battery, but our system is going to provide completely independent from a battery type.
We can provide here an independent, very efficient system for the OEMs, which makes them much more flexible. On the other side, we are going beyond that. We are going, for instance, looking into not cooling a battery at all. We are really having a system then selectively cooling hotspots in the battery to much more increase efficiency, which will then provide, and that's a decisive factor in the e-vehicle area at all, providing additional range for our OEM because of an increase of battery capacity on effective management on battery capacity. It's a fantastic, great system which we are currently designing here. Again, just allow me to add here, we are doing this in close alignment with our preferred customers 'cause we are designing here very closely to the needs of our customers.
It's a really exciting program where I would like to elaborate more on our capital market day. As well, our CTO is more than happy to give you more technical insights on this really promising system.
Thank you, Joerg. I suppose this is a related follow-up question. Are we planning to expand any of the facilities in Norway, for example, the Raufoss plant where a lot of these couplings are produced?
Definitely. Raufoss plant will be one of our system suppliers and major contributor.
There's a lot of questions still coming in regarding the transaction. We will go through those very carefully to make sure that we do answer them on the 10:30 Call. One question which has come up, which is not transaction related, is someone asking whether we are considering listing in Germany. There's a fair number of Norwegian companies around our size which have dual listings or over-the-counter listings in Germany. Are we considering this to take advantage of the greater interest in the automotive sector in Germany?
This would certainly be an option to look into. I'd say this is nothing that we will pursue short term. We are currently very busy with executing on the just announced deals because with the signing it's not over yet. There needs to be the closing and the carve-out of these businesses. We, you know, need to secure our 2021 results, and that for the short term keeps us very busy, and everything else, I think, can be looked at later.
Okay. Thank you, Frank. There's a question regarding the Shift Gear program asking what kind of results we're seeing from the performance improvement efforts, and whether there are any in particular that we would highlight. Also whether our employees are motivated, engaged in the program.
Oh, certainly. I mean, in this regard, I think our employees are very much engaged and motivated to drive this program as everybody sees here, direct results out of the efforts which we are spending. I think that's one of the assets here in Kongsberg is the workforce, and this is clearly emphasized in each region, in each entity. There's really a big engagement, fantastic teamwork, and a lot of potential, what we are seeing. It's not necessarily hereby huge incentives. It's really the workforce likes to go with these measures and they are very much motivated to make their business every day better. That's really, really outstanding, and I've seen this very seldomly before. Huge potential in terms of the results.
I hope you can see the results because as we saw and guided already, in Q2 and later on, during our ad hoc and now in the Q3, we coming from big impacts, generated also the semiconductor crisis. We started with EUR 40 million impact, which we reported in Q2. We came with fifty million afterwards. We had the ad hoc and indicated that due to shutdowns of our customer base, the impact grows more in the range of EUR 60 million. You saw this deteriorating and a big impact in terms of, in terms of, P&L effects. If you're gonna see that we're still guiding here on EUR 50 million, I think this should answer these questions very well.
Allow me to say our performance improvement program is really kicking in and really strongly limiting the impact of this gross impact, which we are faced with. I would say it's really a great program, and the entire team here is already eager to continue that, and we are looking already into having this sustainable countermeasure as well for 2022. As I've elaborated during the Earnings Call slides, we see a continuous positive impact of roughly EUR 20 million on a conservative basis on an annual basis.
Okay, thank you. There's a question which is somewhat related to the transactions, but which is regarding the order book for the rest of our business. I mean, we're selling the Interiors business, which has seen most of the recent business wins. How does the order book look for the rest of the business?
Yeah. We currently have an excellent order book, honestly, and we have this 1.5 book-to-bill ratio, which is very good as we could see. Our new business wins over the last 12 months have been EUR 373 million. Certainly, this is properly diversified. If you're gonna look, for instance, in the quarters and if you're looking a little bit in the appendix, for instance, on the Earnings Calls, you're gonna see the Q1 in 2021 was very much in favor of new business wins for powertrain and chassis. The second one was actually for Specialty Products, and the third one was on Interior.
This is a cycle which we always see in the industry, different products due to just simple time effects on sourcing, moving strongly in certain quarters. If you're gonna look into the outlook and I'm elaborating now on a short term to Q4, we will see, and I can promise that as well already because we got them in. We see already strong bookings in Powertrain and Chassis division, but as well in Specialty Products. Q4 will certainly underlining again this huge potential as well in these areas by strong bookings in these two areas in our, let's say, remaining Off-Highway segments. We are very confident that we're continuing on this high booking rates. If it's gonna be always 1.5, we have to see.
It's towards 2022, we are very confident and promising that our book-to-bill ratio continues here in a positive manner.
Okay. Thank you, Joerg. There's a question which has come up before, but which may be worth reiterating. The question is whether KA is ready for the transition of heavy goods vehicles from fossil fuels to electrification or hydrogen, and whether we have or can develop products that are suitable for the future of heavy goods.
Yeah, that's a very good question. Certainly that's one of the key topics which we are looking into and working already hard on that. In particular, this is one of our major tasks of our CTO. That's why he's here and pushing that forward. Yes, we are working on that. But I have to say, a lot of our products which we have in our product portfolio and we elaborated on that as well in one of these dedicated investor presentations which we did together with SpareBank 1 here. A lot of these products are already fit for the electric vehicle application and in both regards, if it is battery-driven or if it is hydrogen-driven. But that's certainly not the end of the story.
Now we are looking in generating systems for this e-vehicle trends, hydrogen battery, but as well for autonomous driving. We will continuously pushing that. Yeah, allow me to refer to our Capital Markets Day, where we more than happy to give you a little bit more insights in what exactly we are doing there. Clear on our roadmap and clearly part of our product portfolio transformation.
Okay, thank you, Joerg. As you mentioned, Capital Markets Day we'll elaborate on this. There's really just one question left that is not purely transaction related. One listener is asking whether we are more strongly affected by the raw material and semiconductor price and availability issues than other suppliers, and whether this is the case, how do we see the impact on KA compared to our peers?
No, I would not say that we are more or less impacted. We are impacted as everybody else. Certainly, we have areas where we are in semiconductor are more affected, for instance, in the interior area, certainly maybe on raw material. It's certainly a little bit P&C, but that's for our competitors, exactly the same. I would rate us here in an average of our peer groups here. But I hope we managing the countermeasures better. That's our ambition here, again, to become second to none, to do exactly that, a little bit better than our competitors. Yeah, providing here a good outlook and a good shareholder return.
Okay. Well, with that, we've come to the end of the Q&A session for the quarterly results. As we have mentioned several times, we are holding a separate call at 1:30 P.M. European time to go through some slides regarding the transactions we announced yesterday and to have an extended Q&A session there. If you had a question that was not answered, we will get to your question in the next session as we are now coming up towards the end of our allotted time.
Thank you, Jakob.
Yep.
Thanks to all participants.
Thanks a lot as well from my side. Goodbye.
Yes. Because we are now back into the private post conference, you may speak freely.