Earnings Call: Q3 2017

Oct 20, 2017

Everybody. Mikael and I are very pleased to be here to share with you the Q3 results 2017. Power production in the last quarter has gone, as you will see later on, more or less according to plan, and that's very good. But it's also a pleasure for me to share with you this quarter the results of many quarters of hard work. It's finally surfacing in the numbers and various aspects that we can share with you. The financial results are very strong. We'll get into the details in a bit. And as we've been waiting patiently patiently for, we're also starting construction and that's also how we have been approaching financing. And the one that you see on the second bulk here, the Islamic bond is a first. It's the largest green Islamic bond ever issued in the world. It's I would say, it's fairly innovative and it's competitive in terms of financing. We are progressing well on manufacturing of the plants in Malaysia, Honduras, and we have started construction together with Stetel in Brazil. That has translated into a little bit less than NOK400 1,000,000 in construction revenues in quarter 3. Also, we have entered, as you have seen previously in the press release, a partnership with Statoil in Brazil. I'll share some thoughts around that a bit later as well. And in terms of backlog moving into construction and financial closure prior to that, Egypt is very close and South Africa is following suit. We will have some separate slides on both of those projects a little bit later. We have had solid development and construction margins. In fact, they are extremely good in those terms. Revenues from power production, SEK140 1,000,000 operation and maintenance, about SEK20 1,000,000 and then the big boost, development and construction, SEK760 SEK 760,000,000 in total, SEK922,000,000 If you look at the EBITDA, starting at power production, as expected, SEK180 1,000,000. Operation maintenance, SEK88 1,000,000 and then SEK383 1,000,000 from development and construction. This number is realizing the value that is actually attributed to our projects. And it has been important for us to share that with you. We will also provide you with more details later on. SEK500 billion in EBITDA for the quarter. If you compare that to last year, of course, it's a tremendous improvement. But of course, the underlying performance here is, of course, power production. But I would have to say that development is also a core part of our D and C business, where you should expect revenues and you should expect profits. On the left hand side, you know as well as I do that we have had very little construction activity. But what does the show in these bars is, of course, the development activity that we have been working on, which is actually manifesting itself now into projects that is moving into construction. And that is seen in Q3 'seventeen, where cash flow to equity is CHF260 1,000,000. If you look at this in a 12 month rolling basis to the right, you will see the underlying increase in revenues from power production going from $115,000,000 in 2016 up to 1 sorry, dollars 15,000,000 up to $157,000,000 This blue part of the bar is expected to increase once the projects that we now have in construction are connected. And you know that these contracts also have the new ones that are being connected have a contract period of 20 to 25 years. On top of that, you will see the BAM part, the O and M and of course, the variable part, the development and construction, which for this quarter has been outstanding. The partnership with Stetel in Brazil. Of course, we if you remember back a year, we switched the project we had into 3 new projects because we wanted some more time, and we also wanted time to find partners. We started talking to Statoil quite some time ago actually in general terms because they are in renewables and we are in renewables and we sort of meet sometimes on the same seminars. Anyways, Statoil is, of course, a very strong energy participant in the Brazilian market. And for us to have a discussion with them there is something that we thought was a good idea. And then we decided that, well, I mean, if we can make combined 2 companies strength into 1, it will become even stronger. Status Presence as an extremely important energy player, as I mentioned, and us as a global developer, also a construction company and an investor into the solar business is something that is attractive. And the way that we look at it is that combining a strong balance sheet, their presence in Brazil together with our agility, our ability to develop good projects that could only make the partnership stronger. And I believe that this partnership is actually going to generate more megawatts for Scartex Solar than if we were on our own. That was the rationale behind the relationship. And it's going well. We have actually started on-site as I speak. So I'm also happy about that. We have secured debt financing through Banco Nordeste. That's a development bank. And they are also very competitive in terms of interest margins. So the project is becoming even more attractive. We expect start of the project in October next year. Malaysia and Honduras. Malaysia, we have been working on for a long time and these are 3 sites on the West 1 on the West Coast 2 on the West Coast and 1 on the East Coast. It's portfolio financing through this Islamic bond. So 80% is debt financing, the rest is equity. We had financial closure earlier in this month, as you've seen in the press release. And the way that we have constructed this is a combination of convertible preference shares and preference shares. So we have a substantial investment, and we are also extremely happy about this project. The project will allow us to actually use KL as a stepping stone into Asia for further development opportunities. I mean, as you know, South Asia, Southeast Asia is growing rapidly with the Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia with 13,500 islands. Of course, they are all in need of additional electricity as they increase their economies. Honduras, 35 megawatts for the 1st round. We started construction in July to make sure that we would meet the date that we had to connect sometime in the second Q1 and the first quarter beginning of second next year. It has been going quite well, but we have encountered some civil unrest. There are some local people that haven't been informed well enough about what solar technology is. They claim actually that it caused cancer and it's stealing their water. And so it's telling us that it's extremely important when you are in rural areas to spend enough time to inform the people because they are going to be your allies, not only for the execution part of the project, but also for the operation in the next 20 years. But I mean the situation is improving. But as we have said as well, it could have an impact on the cost and schedule. But we are working extremely close with the authorities in Honduras as well as utility to sort out the situation. And I'm quite happy about the way that things are developing at the moment. But we will get more information back to you once everything becomes even clear. Egypt, Das Van Dam, Southern Brazil, you must have read a lot of books about the old societies in Egypt. This is very close to some of those. And you will must have seen press releases over the past few weeks that the banks are approaching financial closure, and that means that we are approaching this financial closure too. The authorities have stated also that they would like to see the project closed by end of this month. And we signed the loan agreements on Monday this week with EBRD, the leading bank along with a few other banks that are supporting the project. And we expect the financial closure to happen very soon with construction starts very early in 2018. South Africa, fantastic country in many ways, but they have a few ducks to line up, I think. We have been working on this project for a long time. The authorities have encouraged all the bidders to sort of take a look at their fee or tariff. And they suggested that it should be around $0.77 which I've said here. We have received a letter from the authorities that Eskom and the authorities are ready to sign the contract. So we just have to understand that a bit more about the timing, but we are we believe that it will be quite soon. And what does quite soon mean? Well, it means quite soon. So now it's I have to say it's very encouraging. And there are a lot of I mean, they have just changed also the new Energy Minister. And during the weeks, I was thinking, okay, is something else happening? Well, no, we have been in meetings with the IPP office, and they have confirmed that they're ready to sign. And that's the information that we have that I'm sharing it with you right now. 2 other smaller projects, Mozambique. When you are working with large development banks, you are you find yourself sometimes having to move from the front seat to the back seat. And the development banks, of course, are involved on a political level. They're helping the bigger economies in the economy in these countries. Mozambique is a good example for that. They have been down. They have had to increase their electricity bill by 50% over the past 2 years. And of course, that has an impact on us that are trying to build a project. But we're also here approaching financial closure, but there are some CPs that are more linked to the Development Bank's ability to actually accept, which they are approaching now. But I just have to say that, if you look at the previous portfolio, there has been some of the same issues in Egypt, for example, and now you see it's being delivered, but a bit late. And I have to say as well, looking at this finance line that I'm going to share with you on the project that our total backlog is actually moving towards financial closure. And with Egypt and South Africa there, I think a bit of patience is actually paying off. You may think about us as a PV company, a company that is good in technology, which we are. But few things of us as a company that have a highly educated and experienced group of finance people. Innovation here is key. And for Malaysia, as I said before, this is first off. If you look at all our projects in the backlog that moves into construction, we will finance almost SEK10 1,000,000,000 in debt. And it's not sort of the same repetitive type of transaction. There are different things all along. Egypt, for example, if you would guess that behind these bullets, there are almost 500 agreements just to cover all the stakeholders. And these have all to be coordinated so that they fit together. Why is it so? Well, it's extremely complex and the stakeholders here, of course, we are one of them, but our partners, our banks, our subcontractors, everybody else, they are going to be with us for the next 20 years. And then you have to anticipate everything that could go wrong and to make sure that you cover all those elements in your contract. So that's why it's become it's fairly complex. It's coming together. And as I said, we signed the loan documents with EBRD earlier in the week. I think also one of our shareholders had a press release the other day, Africa 50, which is actually investing into this project as a first off. Brazil, here you have Brazil is special in many ways, not only because they have Bacalhau, which is extremely good, but because they have also development banks and it has given Brazil a lot of success, but they have been smart like Norway did. They say we're going to have Brazilian content, like Norway said, we have to have Norwegian content when they started the oil and gas business. That is to develop their own business, their own markets and their own industries. So in this instance, the debt is €140,000,000 while the CapEx is €215,000,000 and it's linked to how much Brazilian content you can get, how much debt you can actually get financed. So it's not 80% in this case. I think it's around 65%, yes, give or take. So in addition to South Africa, Malibu and Mozambique, we have now secured financing for all the backlog that is amounting up to SEK9 1,000,000,000. I'll be happy to take questions about this once Mikael and I have finished the presentation, but I'll leave the word to you now, Mikael. Thanks, Raymond. So I will go through the financials in a bit more detail. So again, we'll start with the consolidated financials and we'll report then SEK 655 1,000,000 of consolidated revenues, EBITDA of €595,000,000 and EBITDA of €534,000,000 And as Raymond alluded to, the main driver behind the big jump in consolidated result is the SEK 375,000,000 of net gain that we had on the Brazil transaction. We will now we have now deconsolidated the Brazilian project. It's no longer consolidated in our financials. So that's also why it's hitting the P and L here. On the graph to the right, you see the proportionate financials and the development there. And here, we basically include power production based on our ownership share and the contributions from O and M, D and C and corporate and add them together. And Raymond went through the numbers. I will now then move on to talk a bit about the segments. Power production, very stable, extremely stable actually. And if you compare to the same quarter last year, we had a strengthening of the South African rand against the NOK of 12% that offset the impact of the contributions from the Utah plant that was producing revenues last year, which we then sold at the end of last year. So that's not included in the current year's numbers, obviously. And to the right, we see a steady growth of revenues and EBITDA. And of course, we'll continue to see that as we connect new plants in the quarters to come. O and M is also fairly stable. O and M revenues of €20,000,000 and EBITDA of €9,000,000 And we'll have more revenues here also as we grid connect new plants. Quickly moving on to Development and Construction. After 4 quarters of really no revenues and EBITDA losses, so we have we're happy to report a positive development in this quarter. And with construction progress in Malaysia and Honduras, we report, as also Raymond mentioned, €385,000,000 of revenues. When it comes to the Brazil transaction, the net gain of €375,000,000 is really 2 components. It's including also a €200,000,000 fair value adjustments of the of our assets based on the devaluation of the assets through the Sato transaction. And as I said, we will we have deconsolidated these assets in our balance sheet and will have a contribution on the equity method going forward. And as we start construction in Brazil and continue in Malaysia and Honduras, in the Q4, we'll see solid revenues and margin contributions in the next few quarters. Looking at the financial position. Total assets, SEK7.2 billion. And in the table to the left, we specify cash and net debt levels on a consolidated basis, but also proportionate at the group level. Dollars 1,100,000,000 of cash across our power producing assets and at the group level. €176,000,000 of cash free cash at the group level. And I will, on the next slide, talk a bit about the cash movements in the quarter. Group level book equity strengthened to SEK 2,000,000,000 and the equity to capitalization ratio stood at 80% at the end of the quarter. This is both numbers based on how we define it in our bond and bank facilities, which is an important measure for us in terms of credit quality. Then the bridging the cash movements through the quarter. We have received $51,000,000 of cash from our producing power plants in the quarter as dividends. We report €183,000,000 of cash flow from development and construction. And it's important here to mention that the actual pay the cash payment from the D and C activities was paid in October, early October. So that is not included in the $176,000,000 to the right here. With the financial close in Malaysia, we paid about $200,000,000 of equity. And also just after quarter end, we received NOK 500,000,000 of advanced payment under the EPC contract in Malaysia. So again, it's illustrating how we structure our projects, and I will talk a bit more about that also. At financial close, we typically secure 15% to 25% advance payment of under the EPC contract. And here we have basically the quarter coming in between equity injected and advance payment being paid. We spent $73,000,000 on project development CapEx, mostly related to the backlog. And as we said before, this is being refunded at financial close as you would expect. And then lastly, we had a negative movement of 178,000,000, which is basically mainly related to the SEK 200,000,000 that I mentioned that was paid from Statoil in early October, which then gives us the SEK176,000,000 at the end of the 3rd quarter. So we want to reiterate that we are fully funded for realizing the backlog, and I wanted to spend a couple of minutes to explain how we see the uses of funds and the sources of funds over the next couple of years. So we have talked about the numbers in the table to the left earlier. First of all, we expect to invest about NOK1.7 billion of equity into the project backlog. Total CapEx here is close to SEK 12,000,000,000. Raymond talked about the SEK 9,000,000,000 that we are now securing as project financed to these projects. We are looking at the average ownership of 60% across the backlog. That is giving you the SEK1.7 billion of equity. But we have also spent about SEK700 1,000,000 on project development of the backlog. So from here onwards, we have another $1,000,000,000 to spend as equity in these projects. So that's, again, the refund also with also often with a margin of the development expenses that we see at financial close. So the €1,000,000,000 is then the first bar in the graph on the middle of the screen. Then we have additional $200,000,000 to $250,000,000 of corporate expenses and dividends that we expect to pay to our shareholders over the next couple of years. Another $200,000,000 to $300,000,000 of project development expenses gives you a $1,400,000,000 to $1,500,000,000 of total uses in that time frame. Now looking at the sources, we will generate some €350,000,000 of cash flow from existing plants in operation and O and M, and we'll expect an after tax development and construction cash flow of close to SEK1 1,000,000,000 by realizing this backlog. That gives you CHF 1,600,000,000 to CHF 1,700,000,000 of cash generation, including the current cash sitting on our balance sheet. And then once we have grid connected the backlog, the annual cash flow to equity from Power Production and O and M is expected to increase to NOK400 1,000,000 to NOK500 1,000,000 when we have green connected all these plants. So it's a significant growth from where we are today. And I will also then add a few points related to working capital. Of course, this illustration that I just went through is fine, but we also manage working capital quite carefully. And this is really a key element to our project structuring and a key element to the integrated business model, where we are very careful in how we put all the elements together basically. First point is really that equity is not always injected first. It's in several projects injected at the end of the construction period. In Malaysia, that is partly the case. We will inject a bulk of the equity towards the end of the project. But also in South Africa, that is what we have agreed with the lenders. EPC milestones are important for us, how we define them. And I mentioned the advanced payment under EPC contract, certainly an important aspect to how we manage working capital in the group. We utilize supply chain financing and trade finance on key components on the EPC contracts. That is also additional leverage lever for us in terms of managing working capital. And of course, the larger projects, we're not starting all at once. We do it in sequence to basically place orders and do the work over time. So it's not something we do all at once. And lastly, of course, we are looking at access to bank facilities to match our growth plans, and we are currently in dialogue with our new group of banks to seek some further bank facilities and bank credit lines, which is also an important element to this equation. Okay. Then I'll leave the word back to you, Remon. Thank you, Mitu. Yes. As you may have understood, a lot of projects are moving into construction finally. And I think it's important also keep in mind that at least we do it on our side is that once operational, we will have an even more diversified portfolio, meaning that the income will come from more different sources. And you may or may not consider this a reduction of risk, But we look at every project separately of course and we think that they are safe and good to produce for the next 20 years. It has been important for us as Mikael just went through to show you that we have the sufficient financial capacity to cover all our equity investments that has been in our backlog. We have said this before, but we have added a bit more flavor and more detail to it now. I think that was required and I think you'd now understand how we will source the equity. Now we are also not sort of only concentrating on the backlog, although a lot of time has been spent on that to make sure that we actually deliver on what we have been guiding you on for the past almost 2 years now, the 1.5 gigawatt. But the world doesn't stop there, right? So we work on projects and we have been working on projects all along, the development team. And we are progressing quite well. And we hope that a lot of these projects are going to actually transform themselves into the pipeline, so we can start discussing them more in detail. But what is important to us and what I would like to share with you is that the return the returns and margin targets that we have on these projects are in accordance with what we have said previously. And I'll just repeat it for reference, 15% IRR on electricity sales and 15% combined D and C margin. I mean, it's not going to be 50% as we had last quarter, but 15%. But of course, we may still have transactions like I've had. And it's important that you recognize as we do that the development part of our business is actually part of our business stream. So yes, it's a big number last quarter, but we may see this not to sell the same type of numbers, but you should see contribution from the development activities transporting itself into revenues and profits also in the future. During the summer, in our Q2 presentation, we had this last point that we are looking for partnerships and new business models. That continues to be a main focus. And when we had this slide the last time, of course, we knew that we were negotiating with Statoil and that was a part of a new business venture that we believe are going to increase the number of megawatts that we will add to our total portfolio. We are to put a bit more flavor to it, we are looking at distributed generation, not on the utility scale. It will be a different type of financing structure for those, more like financing a business where you have maybe 1,000 installations rather than 1 big one. And then of course, it's all about securing the income, maybe it could be a mobile platform or some other sources of income, so that you can actually realize such a business idea. But we're still working on that. We see hybrid solutions. I mean, I'm not allergic to combining PV with diesel as long as I can reduce the CO2 footprint. And right now, we're experiencing that PV competes with any source of diesel generator power. You cannot get down to the same levels of price per kilowatt hour. So you can reduce actually the utilization of diesel by up to 50% if you combine it with TV and storage. So the world is moving in the right direction there. And in some of the developing part of the world, you're paying 4 times as much per kilowatt hour. So of course, getting some clean energy, reducing your carbon footprint is something that makes business sense for everybody, also us. So I think that that's what we wanted to cover today. It has been a good quarter and we are extremely busy now of executing at actually 3 continents, the projects. But you know as well that we have spent a lot of time preparing for the execution. And I'm not concerned about that. But of course, every execution, you need to put your finger on the pulse to make sure that you deliver on time and according to budget and connect according to what you have promised utility. Thank you very much and we are open for questions. Yes. Fredrik Stanslin from Pareto Securities. A couple of questions for me, if I may. So you reiterate that you're fully funded for the backlog. Can you just talk a bit about kind of the time line uncertainty and kind of what time line impacts will need to happen for you not to be fully funded anymore? And how do you perceive that risk? You want to take that, Mitu? No. I mean, we do certainly look at in our models, different scenarios for construction start. Certainly, with what the most recent developments in Egypt and South Africa, we're quite firm on time lines now more than earlier. So of course, we believe that what I said today is robust even if we had some changes to time lines. Okay. In terms of economics of the Upington project, in light of changed tariff, can you elaborate a bit on that, how the economics have changed given also declining component prices? Yes, I can do that. I mean, it's you said climbing component prices. Okay, I'll answer that in a bit. In terms of 15.15, if it wasn't meeting that, we would have shared that with you. Over the past 2 years since we or 2.5 years since we actually were awarded the project, component prices or panel prices have been reduced from US0.45 dollars per kilowatt peak down to US0.30 dollars to US0.33 dollars So if you look at the US0.77 dollars give or take, we are where we need to be. In terms of panel pricing, you have seen a slight increase. It's not been climbing. It has been actually reduced to a very low level and it's a bit up about 3%, 4%. These projects will most likely not start construction until sort of towards the end of the first half next year. We're not speculating in equipment prices, but I have a view that based on capacity increases both on silicon, the diamond wire and the overall situation in the U. S. With Trump and also India with trade barriers that the prices will not go further up. In fact, I think it could go further down, which will again have a positive impact on the Upington portfolio. But right now we're quite okay. Thank you. Last one for me. Can you talk a bit about probabilities and timelines of your pipeline projects? We don't really share with you the probabilities. I think it's actually intrinsic into the way that we're reporting, which is opportunity to 50%, where we actually charge all the costs we're spending to the P and L. And then we become a bit more sure it moves over to above 50% probability of being realized, then we actually charge it or lift it into the balance sheet as a value because it has a secondhand value. We can actually sell these rights we have butchered on in the past. Projects that are in the pipeline now are moving a bit further up. It's a big it's one concern I think it's worth thinking about and that is the next phase of South Africa. We have about 400 megawatts there. They are revising the resource plan and they're going to come back to everybody in the market I think in the Q1 next year and we'll understand a bit more. The projects that we have in South Africa are extremely good. They are at the same level as Upington in terms of number of solar hours, 2,500 per year. Norway it's 900 for reference. So it's very healthy. But there are projects that are sort of moving in the right direction on the opportunity side and you will see them with names and content once they reach the pipeline, I think, in not too long. Just two questions from me. One is regarding the Honduras project. So the way I read it is that you're constructing, you may not reach financial close until the project is completed. Do you expect to carry the entire financial risk up until the project produces power? Yes. No, I mean, that is the potential scenario here, and that's what we say. And of course, that is also what we are prepared in terms of our cash flow planning. Obviously, that's not what we prefer to do. But right now, that is what we need to take into account in our planning. But just to add, sort of that is the most pessimistic scenario. But I mean, we're still working on with the Cabei and the bank to get financing before completion. So in a worst case scenario, we're looking at $80,000,000 plus CapEx carrying from your side? Also to be precise on this, we of the $80,000,000 we have together with Norfand already spent half of it. So the remaining cash that we need to carry to complete the project is $40,000,000 Okay, great. And secondly, in South Africa, I believe the government has said 2 things. It's that round 3 and round 4 will be back the table to discuss the feed in tariff. As you say, do you know if that includes round 4B, which the pipeline projects are? You will find out on the Internet, I think so. Okay. Or the 3.5 and 4. Yes. I mean the last tender, they have said that they will want to discuss again. And we expect that, that will not happen until after the new Integrated Resource Plan have been published. But all that we see from that is also that they would like more renewables in the years to come, even with nuclear into that equation. So we believe that we have a very strong position with those projects in sort of in any scenario, even if they re tendered that round 4C as they referred to, yes. And just to follow-up on that, I believe the new energy minister said that she expects the projects to be constructed more around 2020, 2021. You're indicating mid 2018. Do you see the potential of actually pushing those projects to the 2018 timeline? We're not pushing it. I mean, we talked about that the other day and I couldn't really go into detail, but because we haven't completed all our meetings. But in terms of I mean what has been important for us is that the infrastructure that is going to receive our output is ready. And that is what we relate our schedule to. And Eskom is actually completing that as we speak. And so we're working our way backwards from that with certain flexibility, 3 months or something like that. And then we said, what date is a good day to start? And we expect the construction time of 9 to 12 months, which brings us back to which is in our schedule at the moment. It could be revised, but that's what's in the financial model. Projects start end of June next year, number 1, and then there will be a month or 2 for the next one and so on. So that's the plan. Maybe just to add that Eskom, we have received the letters from Eskom confirming the grid connection date and the COD date for these Upington projects, which has been one of the documents that all developers have been waiting for from Eskom. Those we have received with a confirmed grid connection date. Great. Thanks. I was wondering what about tariffs for the plants that's running. For a long time, is the price fixed? Or what can you share? It's I mean, in South Africa is the first product we have there is adjusted according to inflation. So a percentage up on inflation, a percentage up on the tariff. I believe the number the other 2 are partially inflation adjusted. So theoretically, I mean, if you have a link to inflation adjustment 1 to 1, you are also protected against currency variations more or less. And then there could be other products. I don't have them all. You may have that, Mitchel, but that are not inflation adjusted, but that is in our financial model. So when we're talking about 15% returns, we take into account whether it's fully inflation adjusted, partially inflation adjusted or not adjusted at all. And maybe to follow-up, we are entering 20, 25 year contracts with basically fixed prices, tariffs with this inflation adjustment mechanism. Lars, Corp and Pareto. You, Ryman, mentioned distributed energy to multiple consumers in a small sentence. Where exactly would you see that being the biggest opportunity? 80% of the people living in Africa do not have access to power. And there are many reasons for that. Number 1, it's not available. Number 2, if it was available, it would be available through diesel generated power, which is too expensive. I was actually yesterday morning doing a presentation at the U. S. Seminar at the Norwegian Research Council, where you actually get the feel for the problems. And this is about in the kitchens of all the big families, they use kerosene, they use charcoal, they use stuff that pollutes the air that actually reduces the lifespan of these families. So there is a strong and a huge need for distributed generation. And distributed generation, the way that we look at it, we have 6 100 kilowatts together with some batteries, you install them in a small community, maybe a few hundred people and you can actually provide them electricity, so they can actually increase their standard of living, create small businesses. And then as several people have done or several companies have done, you secure revenue by actually charging electricity consumption through a telephone or mobile platform. We actually and some of you may not know this, we electrified 28 villages in India back in 2011. It was a fantastic project for these villages. The children could read their books at night and they could create small businesses and so forth. For them it was good. For us it wasn't good, because we couldn't secure income. But that is slowly going on now with the new digital world where you can have platforms in the distributed around in these rural areas and create new business opportunities also for us. The way that we will look at this and we have yet to sort of map out the detailed business plans, but we would actually look at this as several 1,000 small power plants where you have a business plan to secure the revenue side. And then you go to investors, to development banks, and there are also a lot of grants available. And then you start rolling these things out, and it becomes a profitable venture for the consumers, but hopefully also for us and the supporting partners. Long answer. What about wind? I mean, do you consider wind being potential technologies that we could pursue? I mean, we have discussed it. I mean, we call it Skotic Solar. So it's but if you look at if you sort of study the competence of the company, I think 90% plus, maybe less myself and a few others can be used in wind. I'm just kidding. But financing, execution that kind of thing, it would be the same. What you have to actually collect is competence with regards to wind, wind measurements, but execution side is very similar. Of course, offshore wind is a bit different, but you may also know that some of us have been working in oil and gas for 30 years. So Norway has a great opportunity actually and also Capex Solar, if they decided to, to actually include wind. But that is not a decision that is imminent on our side and it may not happen, but we have discussed it. Okay. Very good. Thank you very much for listening in. We'll see you next quarter. Thank you.