Wilcon Depot, Inc. (PSE:WLCON)
Philippines flag Philippines · Delayed Price · Currency is PHP
5.60
+0.11 (2.00%)
At close: Sep 17, 2026
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Earnings Call: Q1 2025

May 5, 2025

Summary

Q1 2025 saw modest sales growth but a sharp drop in net income due to margin contraction and higher expenses. Management expects a low positive SSG for the year, supported by store reopenings and operational improvements, while maintaining a focus on dividends.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today for our first quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Today, I will be joined by our COO, Ms. Rosemarie Bosch Ong, and our usual company here, our President, Ms. Lorraine Belo-Cincochan, had to attend to an urgent matter and will not be able to join us today.

Hopefully, our Chief Product Officer, Ms. Careen Belo, can catch up. She just has a meeting with a foreign supplier, but she will try her best to join our meeting this afternoon in time for the Q&A. In the meantime, let me just read the usual report or remarks that our President, Ms. Lorraine, reads out to all of you.

Let me just share the. But before I do that, just as a reminder that there will be forward-looking statements mentioned in this call and in the materials distributed earlier, which are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ from expectations.

This reminder is also written in the presentation deck and in the press release that was uploaded earlier today. How do I do this? Yes. All right. For our first quarter results, in summary, sales amounted to PHP 8.41 billion, net income after tax at PHP 536 million.

The PHP 8.41 billion represented a 1.2% increase year-on-year. But the net income after tax was lower by 27.5%. Comparable sales was at negative 3.6%, an improvement over the 8.5% in the third quarter and the 7% in the fourth quarter of last year.

This was accounted for by the 1% increase in the transaction count, but a 4.5% decline in comparable ticket size. As to the margins, gross profit margin was at 38.8%. EBITDA margin is at 12.6%, EBIT margin was at 8.3%, and the net profit margin was at 6.4%. We opened two stores during the quarter, one smaller format Do It Wilcon store in Cubao, here in Metro Manila, and one depot in Northern Luzon, which is in Tuba, Benguet.

For the sales mix, in-house and exclusive brands contributed 52.2% of the sales, and the product categories that grew better than the average growth were the paints and sundries, building materials, and appliances. For the details of the total net sales, the depots accounted for 96.5% of total sales, amounting to PHP 8.1 billion, growing by 1.8%.

The Do It Wilcon stores, a smaller format, accounted for 3.1% at PHP 258 million, growing by 11.1%, while project sales at PHP 34 million accounting for the remaining 4.4%, declined by 67.2%, for a company-wide sales growth of 1.2%. As mentioned earlier, in terms of product categories, the categories that grew better than 1.2% were paints and sundries with a double-digit growth, building materials, and then appliances.

The others, tiles, plumbing and sanitary ware, hardware and tools, electrical and lighting, and then furniture, furnishing, houseware, and all the other smaller categories did not do better than 1.2%.

For the breakdown of the comparable sales of negative 3.6%, the depot's comparable sales was at negative 3.1% versus last year's first quarter of negative 7.9%, so an improvement. Do It Wilcon comparable sales grew 7.4%, while projects, as mentioned earlier, declined by 67.2%.

Ticket size dropped or declined by comparable ticket size, that is, declined by negative 4.5%, while number of transactions grew by 1%. Hence, we have a negative 3.6% total comparable sales growth. This is in contrast with the same period last year of a flattish ticket size growth, but a negative 7.6% transaction count growth.

For the quarter, gross profit was lower by PHP 56 million, or 1.7%, to total at PHP 3.264 billion. This is in view of the margin contraction in both the non-exclusives and the exclusives and in-house brands categories.

This was traced mainly with the continued popularity of our Best Deals offerings. Also, we had some price refreshes that we did, just really to reflect the lower current costs. But since we are doing average costing methods, per books, we were still carrying the same items which we bought for a higher cost.

That's also one of the factors that contributed to the contraction of the gross profit margin rate. The contribution of in-house and exclusive brands slid slightly to 52.2% from the same period last year of 52.6%, but this was just really traced mainly to the decline of project sales.

So not really affecting the gross profit margin, because the project sales would actually have really lower gross profit margin rates. Operating expenses also increased by 7.8%, or PHP 192 million year on year, total PHP 2.663 billion.

The increase was mainly due to salaries, depreciation, and outsourced services. But this was also partly offset by the decrease in trucking and the short-term rent. Next, other income. Operating other income of PHP 96 million was also lower, but this was mainly just really due to collection timing issues.

We're expecting that as we collect more of our dues from suppliers, that this should normalize. Hence, we have the net income for the quarter totaling PHP 536 million, lower by 27.5%, or PHP 204 million year on year. Total assets amounted to PHP 41.2 billion. This is higher by 5.5%, or PHP 2.1 billion from the December 31, 2024 total, mainly due to the increase in the purchases of merchandise inventory.

Those that we ordered last year to have available inventory right after the Chinese New Year, they all arrived during the quarter, which caused the inventories to increase and therefore total assets to increase as well. Total liabilities amounted to PHP 18.3 billion, higher by 20% year on year. Total equity amounted to PHP 22.9 billion, the 3.9% decrease, versus the December 31, 2024 balance.

We continue to be bank debt-free, with the company's liabilities consisting mostly of trade payables and lease liabilities recognized under IFRS 16 guidelines. Our capital expenditures, we spent PHP 650 million for the quarter. Construction of new stores at PHP 362 million, store and transportation equipment at PHP 146 million, renovations and repairs, PHP 141 million, and IT infra at PHP 3 million.

Here we have our historical margins. Again, there was really a softness in demand still, especially in January and in February. March as a standalone, like the absolute amount of our average daily sales.

There was so much improvement from the January and February average daily sales. But it was not enough to pull up the quarter's margins. Then in our board meeting last March 20, our board declared dividends totaling PHP 1.48 billion, equivalent to PHP 0.36 per share.

This represents a 38.5% increase over the prior year's PHP 0.26 per share dividends. We have been distributing dividends for 7 years in a row now. We are still really targeting to maintain the absolute amount of dividends distributed, or even improve on it in the coming years. Again, our key growth strategies.

Store network expansion still is one of the main focus, but this time, the priority is staying within our budget, our CapEx budget, regardless if it would delay the opening. For this year, while we are still targeting 8 stores, maybe we will have to push back some of those towards the end of the year, as we are now experiencing some delays.

As our priority now is to stay within budget, we will not anymore force the issue into finishing the stores within a really hard set deadline, as we were doing before we reached our 100th store in December last year. Also, as per usual, we have to optimize the product mix and increase the profitability of our in-house and exclusive brands.

Then improve the physical and online store layout. I think we already mentioned it in our last earnings conference call that we will be starting major renovations in 2 of our biggest stores as a continued effort to improve our SSG and to reflect also the changing preferences of our customers as to the path to purchase, and as to the products that they want highlighted in the stores.

Of course, we will continue to further enhance or improve our branding, and increase the brand awareness and our visibility in both online and the traditional marketing channels. That's it. We will now open the floor to your questions. Clarissa?

Speaker 2

Hi, Miss Rose and Jean. Just wanted to ask on the sharp increase in lease-related interest expenses in the first quarter, what led to this, and should we expect this to taper off or normalize in the coming quarters?

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yes. Well, of course, there were additional leases, because we opened stores from the second quarter to the first quarter of this year. There is that. Number two, this year was supposed to be the renewal year of the original 36 leases that we had when we listed. Those were just three-year term leases.

But we were able to negotiate with the parent company to just extend the current lease for another year with no escalation. But we were advised by our external auditor that in such a case, we would have to recast the original three-year term lease liability and the right of use asset that we set up three years ago in 2022. Because we already had the extension contract signed, our finance team were kind of forced to recognize that, should we say, a change in the contract.

But because we have an automated system, when we changed it automatically computed for a new interest expense because the liabilities increased for the additional year. That is one also of the reasons why. Also charged depreciation, but I think the effect on the depreciation was the opposite. It lowered the depreciation because of the longer number of years. I am not so sure.

Anyway, that is what happened. But we already closed the books, and we had to manually extract each one. Anyway, we will reverse that in the next quarter, but the true effect of the extension without escalation will be really felt or will be seen in July of this year.

So for this quarter and next quarter, there will be some kind of just accounting movements really in the interest expense and in the depreciation. The interest expense shouldn't have gone up that high.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Jean. Second question is on the same-store sales growth in March. I know you mentioned there was a significant-

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Sorry.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Just to finish off the thought. Because this is the IFRS 16, right? By the end of this, it is really one year, but by the end of the year, everything should equal out, right? The cash payment actually paid and the charge to the P&L in terms of depreciation and interest expense should equal at the end of now 4-year term. Coming from the 3-year term, now the 4-year term at the end. By next year it should be equal.

Speaker 2

Like normalize, yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yes. It should be equal. So it is just really an accounting thing. Yeah.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Jean. On the same-store sales growth in March, can you elaborate on the same-store sales growth? You earlier indicated that there was a significant improvement versus Jan and Feb, just wanted to get more color on this and how same-store sales growth is trending so far in the second quarter.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Because, right, I think, during the full year earnings call, we mentioned that January and February was just really light the last quarter, right, Ms. Rose? You're muted. The last quarter of 2024. It was still really relatively bad, right? But for March, there was improvement. We had, I think it was positive 6%, Ms. Rose?

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

For March for SSG.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

What we're seeing now, Clarissa, is that we're seeing improvements in transaction activity, mainly because it's driven by Remember I mentioned last time during the last call, there was improvement in application of building permits or construction permits.

We remain optimistic that this will translate into sales, given that we're in the finishing stage. Hopefully in the coming months, we will see really an uptick in sales, driven by this increase, especially for the residential.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

We've identified some of the areas, like South Luzon for residential construction and also some areas in Visayas, Mindanao.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah. For April, another factor really that led to the very good performance in March was the holidays, right?

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Because the long holidays was in March last year, and this year it's in April. We of course expect that April, and it really just happened, will be also bad. May would be really a critical indicator as to how the whole year would go.

Or the rest of the time will go. But we're looking at the average daily sales, right? Last year, there was not a month that we hit PHP 3 billion in sales. But we're doing an average daily sales now of over PHP 100 million per day. That's an automatic-

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

for the days, right? It's an automatic-

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

If the trend continues.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah. It's an automatic. April, definitely we did not hit PHP 3 billion because there were less number of operating days, right? Also, even though we were only closed for two days, it felt like it's a one-week thing because everyone was traveling and on vacation. We're hoping that this trend, this average daily sales trend, will continue. If it would, and knowing that towards the end of the year, the velocity of transactions really increase, right?

It really increases normally even during bad times like last year. Then we can expect a minimum that is if this current trend will continue, a minimun PHP 3 billion a month sales . Which would mean with the base going down and the trend going up. We're hoping that even this PHP 204 million decline, we will be able to recover it in the latter part of the year.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Jean. Ms. Rose, that's it for me.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yes, Sangram.

Speaker 4

Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunities. I just wanted to understand first on the demand side. You said that March we came back on track at PHP 100 million per day kind of a sales, right? How was April?

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

April, right before the-

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

If you look at the other page, yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Right before that one week Easter break and right after, we were still at over PHP 100 million average daily sales. But of course, during that holiday with the

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Of course, the first two weeks. The first two weeks and the week after the holiday.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yes.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

But of course, because during the holiday we have two days of zero, right? We have two days of zero.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Speaker 4

Right.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Two days of zero and the week before that, of course, it slowed, because people are going

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah. Gradually slowed down

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Out of town

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

went to zero.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yes, yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Even the Saturday, Sunday, it's like almost zero also because no one's back from the holidays during that time.

Speaker 4

No.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

But from Easter Monday was back up at over PHP 100 million a day. We're going by that, because last year we didn't get to that point.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Speaker 4

Got it. If one were to look at it, and break this PHP 100 million into say, your footfalls and conversions. When I say conversion, Q1 we saw SSG being down led by transaction sizes being down, but volumes going up. How was it in March versus January, February, and how is this incrementally going forward?

Because what I can decipher from your comments so far is that Jan, Feb have been bad, but March onwards there has been a pickup. That's what is the flavor that you're looking at going forward. If you were to look at March as a base, how does your SSG look like going forward? If you were to assume that March becomes a base, and that's how things are.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Well, yeah. I think moving forward, like for the year, because I think the last time I said, at best it will be flat. I am now, yeah, I think we can do still a low positive.

Speaker 4

Oh, that is actually nice.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah

Speaker 4

That low positive, is it because when we spoke last time you had indicated that second half would be where you see the turnaround coming in, and hence-

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yes

Speaker 4

whatever shortfall of the first half happens, you will be able to recover in the second half.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yes.

Speaker 4

Now, because March and April are more favorable, it seems that instead of a flat you can actually deliver a low-

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yes, that is-

Speaker 4

low single digits SSG.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah, unless really something will happen, we are seeing that trend, that we can give a positive SSG. We are also hoping, because remember that we had the store that burned down? It was doing around-

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

40?

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah, 40 million PHP sales above. It will be reopened in June this year.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

June, yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

It will be a big help, because we did not take it out of the SSG computation. It was like zero, zero. Then suddenly we would have, maybe it will not be 40 in the first month.

Because while some of our stores got some of their customers, right?

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Right.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

But with a lot. Yeah, because it was near, but it was in the other side of the expressway. So you would have to really go a long way. You have to travel, make a U-turn or something. The exits are on opposite sides of the expressway, so it is not really very convenient.

So if you are just doing small repairs or even small renovations, many really did not anymore seek out or went to. It is only if you are doing major one or building a house that you probably. But otherwise, even just a mom-and-pop you would. So it would also be a great help to boost SSG if it will be reopened.

Speaker 4

Got it. So would it be fair to. How much did you say was the monthly sales for the burned-down store?

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Was it PHP 40?

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

More or less 40.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

45, yeah.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

More or less more than 40 gross, but net was around 40, yeah.

Speaker 4

PHP 40 million per day or 40-

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

No, a month.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Per month. It's not as, you know.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

It accounted, before it burned out, it accounted for 1.4%.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah. Almost, yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

So-

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Mm-hmm.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

1.4% of a higher base, right?

Speaker 4

Correct

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

That's like pure SSG of 1.4 or maybe higher because it's a lower base. I don't, I mean.

Speaker 4

Got it.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Speaker 4

Got it.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Just-

keeping the whole up

Speaker 4

Right. With the improvement in footfalls, are we seeing any improvement in the transaction sizes, or is it more volume to-

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Okay. The thing is, really our Best Deals and all that, they're really popular. Because we have this old inventory, right, that we bought at a certain price. So we're buying new ones now at a lower price. So we cannot really price these items-.

It's not as if that we discount here, discount there, but we cannot anymore price these items at the cost that we bought it, right, considering the cost that we bought it like a year ago or so. There's that, right, because then, with the down trading still very prevalent and also, you have competition that will offer you because they bought it at a lower price, right. I mean, at a lower cost. So they can actually sell it at a lower price, even though it's not really apples to apples, but functionally, they serve the same purpose, right.

In times like this, when there are a lot still, I mean, wallet sizes and all that still have not really grown to the level where it was before. We have to be mindful of that also. We refresh also price to reflect that cost has been lower, but except that we're doing average cost, the system will still pick up the cost of before.

Speaker 4

Got it.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

We just have to wait, really just to weather this. There really is going to be a transition period, which we actually expected to happen. Because when our margins really shot up in 2021, also a big factor was that average costing thing. Because we bought the items at a much lower price, and then we were able now to price it at higher to reflect the higher current cost at that time.

Then, of course, there were questions that there will come a time that the cost will catch up, right? But it never happened because the cost went down. In fact, we were able to really sustain still the pricing and those margins for as long as we possibly could. In fact, our margins early last year was at almost 40%, et cetera. Because since, when did the prices, the cost drop?

Like late 2022 or mid-2022?

All of 2023 until early last year, we were able to defend our pricing strategy. It was only in the second half that we started really reflecting because we wanted to move volume and wanted to preserve market share. Things were not really improving in the macro level, and that's why we relented and gave in. We saw the increase in the quantity sold, we saw transaction count increase.

Speaker 4

Got it.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

I mean, that's the market.

Speaker 4

Right.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

We just have to continue until we flush this out and/or until things will improve. It's not as if we're not doing, for example, the renovation that we're doing, the changes in how we operate, the number of people in our stores, the skills that we give to our employees. Because before, we are really into salespeople with specialization.

Not that we want to remove their specialization, but now we notice that customers are giving value to talking to just one person, one person knowing what they really need. It's also a very good way to upsell, right? One salesperson knows all the requirements of the customers and can therefore suggest, not just, okay, the customer needs something from the kitchen. Okay, you talk to this time.

Speaker 4

Got it.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah. All these little things that we're doing operationally, from our sourcing to our store operations, to addressing, right? The changes in customer preferences, which we hope will, of course, result in a better sales performance down the road.

Speaker 4

Got it. Finally, just a clarification. Did you say that the opening of the new stores would be now depending on how the demand improves, or are you going as per plan?

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Well, yes, that's one. Also another is, before, because the foremost goal is to get to 100 by the end of 2024. There are issues, for example, in the construction. We just like, okay. In fact, there were times that we gave incentives to contractors. If they finish it ahead of time, we give them bonuses. This time, no more. If they can finish it on time, okay, we'll wait. We don't want to spend more, right? I mean, the priority now is-

Speaker 4

Right. So what would be your CapEx plan for this year?

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Oh, God, I forgot. What did we say?

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

PHP 2.7 something.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

2 point

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

I think 2.8, 2.9 something.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

2.9. So we may or may not.

Speaker 4

Then, just as a, and Rose for this is for you also, that given that we have the confidence in the business, we have the market share, we know the business in and out. At current price, why don't you then utilize this money to buy back the share and gives.

None of that, because this is at real cheap value, as you say, because of the demand scenario. Since you are not going to go full hog on the CapEx side, why not utilize that to come out with a buyback plan or something that is for further confidence that even the management has increased confidence at these levels.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

We will propose, but as far as I know, the strategy, if you can call it that, is just really to go through the cash dividend route. We may even increase the PHP 0.36 per share next year. I don't know, right? But as far as I know, as of now, that's the route that

Speaker 4

Got it.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

we plan on taking.

Speaker 4

Got it.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

To go the cash dividend way rather than the buyback. We are getting mixed advice on that side. But 100% sure on the cash dividend side.

Speaker 4

Yeah, because in the buyback the amount is not-

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

No one wants a lower cash dividend.

Speaker 4

Yes.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Everybody wants-

Speaker 4

Right

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

a high cash dividend. But on the buyback, we're getting mixed advice from all sides. So we're just going to

Speaker 4

Got it.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

go with the cash dividends first. We'll see about the buyback.

Speaker 4

Got it. And finally, on the profitability sides, since we have seen the first leg of improvement from what happened in Q4, to 6.2% at the net profit levels. As we move forward, you spoke about drivers for margins improvement, A, in the form of better growth and also in the form of lower rent to actually normalize in the second half, et cetera.

So where should one be looking at the profitability? Do you see it going closer to the 8% levels, which it was prior to 2024? Or do you see that there are still some headwind and hence, 8% levels would be a little bit too optimistic?

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

If we are talking for this year,

Speaker 4

Yes

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

maybe, yeah, it stays just around that. But of course, in the long term, we of course, really still believe that we can go double digits. But just not now.

Speaker 4

Got it.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Right? No.

Speaker 4

Yeah, 100%. But when we started this year, we were a little bit pessimistic, say, you know, 20% to 50% up.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah. Because we actually did not expect that mark. I think we know that as a comparison, right? Because it was really low base last year. It will be really. But as a standalone, like an absolute amount, we didn't expect that. We'll see. Hopefully that it will be sustained. We're doing our best to even improve on it.

Speaker 4

Yeah. Even if you are able to achieve the last year's 7.4% or 10% EBIT margin or 7.4% PAT margins, that would be a good achievement given the kind of exit that we had in Q4.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

I'm sorry. Sorry.

Speaker 4

I meant, given the kind of exit that we had in Q4, if we are able to match the full year margins of last year at 7.5% PAT or 10%+ EBIT margins, that would also be a good stepping stone going into 2026.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Speaker 4

What kind of probability would you assume for that? Do you think that the probability is quite high to achieve that given the kind of visibility that you are getting now? Or do you think that there are some ifs and buts also involved there?

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Rose, do you think? On the sales, on the market side.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah, I think it can be achievable. I am just thinking on the cost and the expenses side. Well, I do not think you had the chance to look at our FS. But because there have been some improvements in major expense accounts, like for example, the trucking. We really had some issues last year.

That is why we had to do spot, like you are buying spot, on the spot price for the trucking because our long-term providers they had some issues, so they were not able to deliver the vehicles that we need, et cetera, at the time that we needed it. We needed those, but now we have.

like an engagement for a long term, so we're not anymore paying spot price. We'll see, because these are new providers. If we can, I think, go do this. Tracking as a percentage of sales with even just a 1.2% increase, dropped by 22.9%.

Hopefully, the new ones would perform better and we're able to manage expenses such as those. The rent thing here, the decline in rent, which is 62%. Is it? Yes, it was 62%. Those were just really, I think for third-party lessors, whereby we were renegotiating our leases.

The rent expense was just put at a short-term until the new lease agreements. So anyway, there are expense items that we're seeing improvements in, and then that should help our operating margins improvement.

Speaker 4

Got it. Thank you. I'll get back in the queue.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yes, Tom.

Speaker 5

Hi, Jean. Hi, Ms. Rose.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Hi.

Speaker 5

Three questions from me. The first one is, can you give us a little color on how much was the discount given in Q1 compared to Q4 last year? Is that the main reason for the decline ticket size in the first quarter? The second question is, you mentioned that there is some carryover of high-cost inventory in the first quarter.

I am just wondering, how much do you still have for those high-cost inventories, and when can we see the positive impact on gross margin when the lower-cost inventory come in? Is that going to be in Q4 this year? Your inventory days turnover

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 5

is quite long, right? It is 8 months or so.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yes.

Speaker 5

Just give us

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Maybe next year.

Speaker 5

I'll look on that.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Speaker 5

Last question, maybe. Rose, I think you mentioned about some positive sentiment on construction permits in recent months. Can you help us understand more about where you see that demand coming in, and is it going to be sustainable throughout the rest of the year, or is there any driver for that demand picking up? That's all my questions. Thank you very much.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah. On the first question, actually, if you remember, we launched the ABCDE program and the Best Deals almost at the same time last year. Although we've been more very aggressive with the Best Deals towards the first quarter of this year. On the ABCDE, when we launched it, the contribution to sales is less than what they're contributing now.

Currently, the contribution of the ABCDE program to our sales is around 7%. Compared to last year, definitely there's bigger in terms of discounts that we give away because of the contribution, right? It has increased by three folds.

On the Best Deals, of course, also, we were more aggressive on Best Deals this year. On the average, including Best Deals and the ABCDE, probably we're giving away like 7%-8% on the average. Am I correct, Jean?

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah, I would-

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yes. I think 7% to 8% if based on gross sale. Actually-

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah, if based on gross sales.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Actually, based on gross sales, even not without the What's this? The discounts that we've given out was only 5%.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah. For the

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

If we divide the discount.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah. It's for the ABCDE, because right now there's more transaction on the ABCDE compared to when we launched it. Last year it was

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

More transaction

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

still matching up. Yeah. Month-on-month, the enrollees, because we've been very aggressive also with the Do It This Weekend program. The objective is to increase foot traffic in the store, so we have this Do It This Weekend program, wherein we invite professionals to the store for a tour of the store.

Also, we provide them some, in line with the CPE program, wherein for them to be able to renew their licenses. So we hold seminars for these professionals. We took the opportunity to enroll them, to encourage them to be part of the ABCDE program.

Even during big construction events, like Worldbex. Recently we had the Worldbex and the Conex, which were organized by the United Architects of the Philippines. So we've been adding almost like every month, we've been adding, on the average, maybe 200- 300 ABCDE enrollees.

That's why month-on-month, the contribution is increasing. On the third question, you asked about the why we're so optimistic that there'll be improvements in sales coming from the data that we got, because we've been going around the stores now.

Recently, me and the President, Ms. Lorraine, we've been visiting our stores. We've been holding cluster meetings with them, trying to get a feel of the market, and then trying to get feedback from them, direct feedback from the managers.

We have gathered that there are certain areas, like for example, in Visayas, Mindanao, and also in Luzon, South Luzon. There's a lot of construction activity now coming from the permits applied during last quarter of last year and was released this year. In February, we saw a lot of improvements also in the number of construction permits approved.

Since we are in the finishing stage, we're expecting that it will result into sales probably 3 months, 4 months down the line. So we're optimistic that sales would improve in the coming months, if the trend continues. Jean mentioned about the trend after Easter Monday, going towards. We see a lot of improvement going towards the month of May.

We see a lot of improvement on the daily average sales. Hopefully, barring any other unforeseen, and hopefully the result of the election would be good also. Although we did not feel much, it's not really something that impacted sales, the coming election, compared to the previous elections. Hopefully after elections, there'll be more economic activity, there'll be more construction activity that will help us boost our sales.

Speaker 5

Okay, got it.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Second question, I did get it. Jean, did you get the second question?

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Compared to the fourth quarter, are you just going to go back?

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Just send it. Okay, so there are two, I think two factors here. Sorry. Two factors here. One is like really the discount, which actually we can see it. We can solve for it, the discount over gross sales. I think for our own brand, it came up to 5%, which was the same period last year was only 0.94% of gross sales. Careen is here.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Okay. Careen, you, best person to answer this. The question is, compared to the fourth quarter, how much discounts or price refresh did we give out this first quarter versus the fourth quarter? If you can recall it. Everyone, this is Careen Belo, our Chief Product Officer.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

How much percent or how

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

No. I mean, is it higher, lower, or if you know the percent.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

Higher, lower in terms of how many

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

In fourth quarter. Yeah, in terms of amount or percentage.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

That we gave away for the best

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah, I mean, Best Deals or whatever promos we had, like in the fourth quarter.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

Basically, in terms of the SKUs level, we gave away even like 20% off for our Best Deals.

It's a different rate

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Then like compared to the fourth quarter, did we increase the discounts or we just increased the number of items that we refreshed our prices?

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

We-

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Like first quarter of this year versus fourth quarter of last year.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

Basically, we just highlighted a lot of the current existing SKUs that is already Best Deals, and then we marketed it more.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

Not really a lot of big-

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Like giving additional, right?

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

They were already on sale before, but it was just really not-

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

Yes

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

highlighted.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

We just remarketed it for the market to take notice on the certain SKUs, and then we highlighted and then brought down a few SKUs for the market, to have market draws. Like Best Deals price come-ons, so that the market will go to our stores and will see more selections of our products. That is how we did for the marketing.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

In terms of if there were more in the fourth quarter versus the first quarter this year, it is kind of the same.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

No, it's the same.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

Like for the products, number of SKUs, it's the same. It's the same for last year and this year. Same SKUs, just different highlightings. Yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Tom?

Speaker 5

I see. Yeah.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

It is also because it was a good market feedback for last year. It is basically putting more volume, more inventory on those Best Deals items for this quarter. It is not necessarily adding more SKUs to the Best Deals. It is more of putting more inventory.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Giving the market what they are looking for.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

I think as with more inventories of the Best Deals.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Speaker 5

The competitive landscape seems to have stabilized quarter-on-quarter, didn't intensify since. Right? And you managed to navigate through that with your promotions and Best Deals.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

Yes. Actually, that's what's good about the retail market, because you can actually play with whatever the demand of the market, what the market needs. We're able to change the landscape on if there are downtrading or if we see the demands changes in our industry.

Speaker 5

Okay. Earlier, I think another question is also on the sourcing side, right? Because Jean also mentioned about you used to carry some high-cost inventory. Have you seen lower costs of supplies in recent months? Just wondering, when can we see the impact to the gross margins for the company?

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

Yeah, there's always better pricing and better innovations. Innovation, it's not equivalent to a higher price. There's always more offerings. Even the luxury brands or the higher-end brands, they're always coming up with lower costs, lower SKUs, lower models to fit the market. I think it's a global trend that everybody is price-conscious or downtrading. Even higher-end brands do create lower price points for that.

Speaker 5

Okay, got it. Your suppliers actually introduce more affordable options for the consumer. But it's not going to increase your gross margins per se, right? Your gross margin tends to be quite stable. Is it the correct understanding? Because we have heard about with this global trade war intentions, right, maybe you can renegotiate with your overseas suppliers with a better price.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

Yes. We actually do get better pricing, even without negotiation. They do offer already better pricing for us due to our volume and our relationship. What more, then we ask for more discounts for our products.

Speaker 5

Okay. Got it.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah. But the pass on is more on the market consideration, right? I mean, what they can afford, yeah.

Speaker 5

Mm-hmm. I mean,

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

at the need during this time. Yes.

Speaker 5

Okay. Thank you very much. That's all I have.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yes, Nadine?

Speaker 7

Yeah. Thanks again for the opportunity. Hi, Careen. Hi, Ms. Rose. Just two questions on my end, and mostly relating to the previous discussion. First is, given the soft demand, was there any change in merchandising strategy? Any shifts or tweaks that you've done? Also, do you see this as an opportunity to reduce the SKUs that are not really moving and reduce the working capital for Wilcon? So that's my first question.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Careen. In the merchandising.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

So merchandising aesthetically?

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

No. Like, are we ordering what the market needs? Less of the

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

Yeah. Basically, because in sourcing, you really see a lot of different products, different categories. That is a lot of opportunities to introduce to the market. It is always quality and price points that we are looking at. It is really about, once you source it is whatever demand that we think we will be able, whatever we can supply, that we can see that demand can absorb.

For this, when you say, is it an opportunity for us to deplete our merchandise or our SKUs? This is really an ongoing thing that we do. It is not really because now everybody is downtrading, so we have to do this.

It is more like it is an active operational thing that we do. We always check our portfolio. We always check whatever sells, whatever we need to deplete. It is a cycle that we do, not just for this situation right now.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah. If I may also, operationally, we plan to do a major change in terms of the path to purchase. It is also related to how we merchandise the product. Because if you enter the store, you will see majority.

When you enter the store, the first thing that you will see, majority would be tiles and sanitary wares. Although a bulk of our merchandise or bulk of the categories that we carry, they are also building materials, other categories, not just tiles and sanitary wares, which accounts to almost 50% of our sales.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

More than 50, yeah.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

Yeah, more than 50% of our sales. But on the other end, we have a lot of categories that we want to be more accessible as they enter the store. Because as they enter the store, the first thing that they will see are all tiles and sanitary wares. Now we are going to tweak or reconfigure the layout of the store.

So we are doing a major renovation or major improvement in the path to purchase, wherein at one side you will see all the DIY items, on the other side you will see the trading items. We plan to integrate, whether it is DIY, whether it is tiles or sanitary wares, we plan to integrate it as one. So there will be no more distinction.

I think if you recap what Jean mentioned earlier, we are also going to have some changes in the way that we serve our customers. Because many of the customers see value in a one-on-one engagement with a sales executive or with a customer expert. Those are the things that we are doing operationally.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

At the same time also, we'll be providing our customer experts. Because with the customer experts, you will see only a few would have their own tablets. Meaning accessing digitally all the different information about inventory, doing sales, customer orders, which is connected to the back end.

But now we plan to provide everybody in the floor area would have access to all this information. So we will be investing on the tools, like for example, providing each of them with the tablets. So operationally, we're doing a lot of improvements also, and even major renovations of the legacy stores also. I think it was included in the budget for construction also.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

We are doing phase by phase. Even the way we serve the customers in terms of the queue, we'll be using more of the queue system, wherein we serve them for pickups. Majority of our sales are all pickups now.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Rosemarie Bosch Ong
Senior EVP and COO, Wilcon Depot

This is also related to merchandising. Even Careen now, they're focusing more on the good, better, best. If I may, Careen. So in terms of each category and in terms of each brand that we carry for the stores. What we plan to do now is it's not going to be a one-size-fits-all in terms of distribution of merchandise or distribution of new items and even the existing items.

So it's going to be fit to the market, to the size of the store. We're also looking at improvements or efficiency in operations. Hopefully, it will give good results in the coming months, once we execute all of these plans and programs.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah. Nadine, if we are asking about if we will in a strategic way, we will change. No, really major. Meaning the price point is we still go for quality, as what Careen said. While we introduce a lower price point brand, as we mentioned in past earnings calls, it is not going to be a major driver or a core brand or a core product line for us.

Just really an additional offering for those who are really looking for. But that is not really our main target. It is just that our main target market are just really not doing anything major now because they already did in 2021 and in 2022. We are just really wanting to maintain our market share.

But once the cycle goes back and they would need major renovations in a year or so, in two years, in three years, then we should still have those products that they want or they are looking for, or they want in their house more permanently. We should be still carrying those products.

So no major change as to that, like suddenly become a low cost or low quality just to go for the volume. We were willing, a little bit of a. Not really a little bit. Of a contraction in the gross profit margin, but keeping our branding.

This is just really just to show empathy and really just to reflect that there is a lower cost. But just so happened that we have all these products that we are holding now, that we have had since one or two years ago. We are just going to ride this out.

But we remain firm in our positioning.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

To be clear, we remain committed to serving our market niche, meaning the middle-end market.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

But not really going down, compromising the market that we usually serve.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

There won't be any change. The expansion of the market probably is correlated to the expansion of the economy once everything improves. We still stick to the middle-end, middle-high market.

Speaker 7

Thank you, Ms. Rose, Jean, and Careen, for the comprehensive answer. I'm conscious of time. Just one last question on my end. Still related to your previous answer, but given that we're in the scenario where there's higher tariffs and also excess capacity from China, we've seen influx of Chinese imports and also allowing your competitors to offer cheaper products.

How do you see this shaping up competitive industry and consumer behavior? In this backdrop, do you think that maybe the Best Deals might be permanent? Or how are you looking to adapt in this scenario? Thank you.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Careen.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

Well, as mentioned a while ago, the Best Deals, some of it are actually really there already. We just highlighted the products and put in additional. There's a possibility that we can retain it. But for the influx of Chinese or lower, because we're here for the long term.

Wilcon, with our proposition, is the quality. We've already seen the many influx of imports from China that are lower quality. But we're not going to go there because those are disposable items, and we're here for giving the proposition of our after-sales service. I think this is just for now. It's like-

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Temporary, yeah.

Careen Belo
Director, EVP, and Chief Product Officer, Wilcon Depot

temporary shift to these purchases of lower quality. But eventually, it's because those who are importing are basically sort of like fly-by-night. So it's just one store, two stores, or online. Eventually they'll disappear.

So they don't have that long-term stores or relationship or reliability of what Wilcon has. So that's how we view it, like long term. This will be a temporary shift to the lower quality. Yeah. But it will go back. So we stand by our good, better, best product positioning.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Okay, Nadine.

Speaker 7

Thank you. Thank you, Careen.

Jean Alger
VP of Investor Relations, Wilcon Depot

Yeah. Also, it's 5:15 P.M. If there are no more questions, I would like to thank you all for attending. We'll try to get Careen to attend, even if Lorraine is here, the next time we have our earnings call. Thank you very much, everyone, and for other questions that we were not able to answer this afternoon, please feel free to email. Okay, thank you.