Hello, good morning. Thank you for joining us in the Capital Market Day from CAP. We're going to start. We have a very full day, and so hopefully, it's better than last year. We have six sections in the CAP Group. We have financial performance, which is the traditional chapter, and that's where we explain the results of the quarter and how we are creating our portfolio. We have ESG, the financial strategy, and then we'll have some closing remarks. Felipe and I will be doing the presentation. Felipe will take number two and then number five. We'll start also sharing a bit of our guidance since we're all here gathered. That's what we will be publishing today. I apologize for my voice.
Well, I have someone who's going to help me out in case you don't understand anything I'm saying. Okay, many of you know CAP, but not all of you might be familiar with what we do. I'd like to say that for us it's very relevant. That's the reason why we are getting up in the morning. We want to create progress, and we want to help children in the world. There's a very important connotation because we want to work with everyone here, and that is a relevant reflection on how we do things, on how CAP and our companies are very present in the areas that we're operating.
This is part of the strategy by 2030, and the goal is to become one of the leaders in the space for decarbonization through an integrated portfolio of businesses, so operating companies can generate and all the value, and also through innovating and sustainable solutions. I think that is very relevant, and it's a reflection of what we have been doing, rare earths and also high-quality iron. That's part of our mining plan and all of the products that we want to create sustainable products, and we want our customers to be more sustainable. Just a few key numbers. We're responsible for 98% of the iron ore produced in Chile. It's all high-quality iron. We'll talk about that, high-quality iron ore.
Third-largest owner of mining concessions in Chile, so that provides a very relevant potential for growth. That's really important in what we're doing today, and it's also part of our daily activities. First, filtered tailings deposit in Chile, and that's really important, because there's no other company that has this, and that provides knowledge and the possibility of continuing growing. The third operator, the third-largest port operator, we move about 15 million tons a year, 5,000 tons a year, and that's the reason why we have a logistics that is integrated in railways, et cetera. The volume is more than we move around in copper. That is very relevant. We have the goals for emission, and we are fourth in Dow Jones.
64% of our suppliers are local, and 85% of our workforce is local. They work, and we are lucky to be in the coast and to be near the mountains, so that makes things easier. That's why it's so important to live in the valleys that we're operating, in Copiapó, Elqui, and Concepción, Talcahuano, etc. It's very relevant, and it's part of the DNA of people, and it's part of the communities where we're at. I think that what's important is to represent our shareholders. 44% of free float, that maybe it's not how much money we want to have today because there's been economic issues in Santiago, Chile.
Due to the free float, we will be able to continue moving in number 15 out of 30. We want to move forward. In the past, we had 0%, and now it's almost 4%. We have potential for growth and a value that is very relevant, the book value over the market cap. What we want to do is to unlock this value, and of course, this is going to be all about that. We are going to continue activating, but it's still below. What is a part of what we're doing, we have 75% from CMP and also another percent from Mitsubishi. We have Aclara Resources, and we have Tecnocap.
We have about 20%, and we in both cases have the Penco module, and we want to continue moving along. We own 28% of the project from Penco and industrial 100% Huachipato and today Huachipato 2.0. The group Cintac, and it's at 78%. We have to Argentina, we have a 100%. CAP is 99%, but through our society, we have a 100% infrastructure. Infrastructure, it's up to 100% thanks to Aguas CAP, and there's a potential for business that is very relevant. We also are working with Agrosuper, HSLP, which is to operate the port in Talcahuano, and also Tecnocap, the transmission lines, and the company that is creating the photovoltaic parts 100%.
We operate in the region, in Chile, off course, Peru, through Cintac, and also Brazil through the assets that we have. It's important to mention that we have the entire national territory, and we are one of the economies that has the biggest territory going from Copiapó to Patagonia, so north and south, all through the extension of the national territory, and I think that's very relevant. We are in this regions in mining, house modular, and also infrastructure. Well to wrap up this section so that it's not too boring, but just sharing some basics about CAP. I think there's some highlights that I'd like to mention in mining. For this, we have implemented a deficiency plan through the geological fault that was requested in Mina Los Colorados.
That's been well implemented, and the reason why we had maybe not the results that we wanted, but the results that we hope we had. We have contained losses due to these measures that we will mention in detail in this section for results. Phase six is making progress. We are working on it. We're working at full speed. We have reached an area where we are getting very good minerals from phase six, and that's mitigating the effect of the need for stepping out of phase five. In El Romeral, we started with our expansion project. We'll talk in detail through the presentation with the underground area with an exploration tunnel, which will allow us to generate more knowledge on geology of the mine and also the underground potential of the mine.
We continue with our expansion projects for El Bajón, El Romeral, and also Valle del Huasco. Off course, in Aclara, we started working on Carina at 10.2%. Our investment was 0.7 and now it's at 10. It's almost 2.7% of growth. That would be the investment for four times. We've continued making progress in the Penco project with the permits, and I think there's a very good chance of getting the permits in the first quarter next year. Now we started with the second addendum, and we've had very good feedback from the fiscal asset organizations from CONAF. This would not affect the native forest and CONADI. That's also part of the process of the indigenous consultations.
We know how we have been moving along with the permits in the last 12 months in Aclara. Carina, we also have some other permits here. Of course, there's different permits. We need to get three different permits, and I think that the first two will happen in the next 12-15 months, and we're a bit behind in regards to in comparison to Penco, but it's equivalent, and in terms of permits. In industrial, in the Cintac Group, it had a very good turnaround, and we'll try to strengthen the balance and the EBITDA improved by 59% in regards to last year.
That's really important. While the construction industry has not been growing a lot here in Chile, we are still working on a very relevant project of selling assets so that we have less debt, and we get a ratio of debt and EBITDA that is more reasonable for an industrial company such as Cintac. Very good news, you know, that the engine for our growth has been from CAP and mostly mining because there's been a very good investment, you know, CAP and hotels. We were awarded the first project in social housing in the central south. We are very happy to enter into this segment because there's a very important potential with the housing issues that we have in Chile and also in Peru with Huachipato.
We've had an operation for limestone, which is quite relevant and for Huachipato with a positive cash flow. The execution will generate results in all of the hubs and also logistics services, port services. We have an organization that, in a way, is creating the muscle so that we can really use this port in the two million tons of capacity that we have. It's lower than that now, but this port was supplying all the raw material so for Cerrogig. Now we want to reuse this, and we want to work in this area. We closed the acquisition in a 100%. We want to bring more customers and to be able to invest in a 50%. We already have a permit for that.
We can get to 600 liters per second. Now it's 400. Then in PLL, we created a new vehicle that is called CAP Puertos Multipropósito, which owns the investments in HCLP, PLL. We continue moving along with the execution of the PLL strategy, more focused on mining and also the customers that we have in Valle del Huasco, and to provide better access to the port through the highways that we have in Valle del Huasco towards Puerto Las Losas. Also Tecnocap, we want to bring more new clients. The idea is to use our assets at the maximum capacity, and that way unlock the value in the infrastructure. Now I'll hand it over to Felipe.
He's going to explain in detail the results of the third quarter and what we have accumulated throughout the year.
Thank you, Nicolás . First, welcome everyone. It's great seeing familiar faces. There's always new faces, but I'm really happy to see you here. Thank you for joining us. This is the most interesting part of the presentation, so if you're going to pay any attention, you have to pay attention here. Okay, so what happened during this quarter? As everyone you know, when there was a contingency phase five, we said that this year we would have a first half that would be complicated. We also said that the third quarter, where we're going to start to see a recovery in the fourth quarter, was where things would be much better than previous years. We are already seeing that.
If you were able to look at the results from the third trimester, the third quarter, there's an improvement. The most important thing is that in September, you were able to see that there was dispatches for 1.7 million tons, which is more than we had seen in previous months. We are keeping our projection of guidance, and we will meet the 15, 15.5 that we had mentioned, and we will be part within the guidance of the cash flow. I think that's a very good alternative. What's going to happen in the future? We are accessing part of the mineral of phase six as we had anticipated, and that is really going to help. We will not keep that in 2026. Now we'll also tell you what happens there.
Some good news is that this year will actually be within the numbers that we had hoped. We're going to check what happened in the markets. We'll continue talking about what happened at a consolidated level, and then we'll go into more detail on the different businesses. At the end of this section, we'll take 10 minutes for questions, and then we'll continue with the presentation. After all presentations, we'll have a Q&A session. We'll just provide you 10 minutes so that you don't forget anything about the most important part of the presentation. Once again, at the end, you will have a Q&A session. Okay, what happened in the iron ore market? I would say it's been quite fun for the last year. When we compare quarter to quarter. Let's see if this works.
Look at this. Wonderful. Okay, what happened with this quarters? The third quarter, it's about 2%-3% above prices in 2025 versus last year. In what we have accumulated, the prices have been worse than last year, and of course, that is hitting us. Now, good news is that while prices were quite depressed during the first quarter of the year, there was a very nice surprise. At least we had a bit of luck where prices went up, and they went up levels of 100. This is the complete market, and it's been kept, and that also led to projections. If we look at Wood Mackenzie and then from then on, Wood Mackenzie is aiming at about $98 per ton in Fe 62. Back in the days, it was much lower, and this is all part.
It all has to do with Simandou, the big ghost in the market. You know, it can produce 120,000 tons. The amount of issues that Simandou has had means that this is going to either delay or it's not going to meet the expectations. The amount of problems that they've had is brutal. It's of course a different prices than we expected by 2026, so that is going to be shown in all the projections for next year. Now, the Cintac business is in the construction and in mining industry. For construction, we were hoping for a recovery, but sadly, that has not happened so far. You can look at the IMACON. It's been stabilized since the beginning of the year. There was some of a glimpse that things were going to improve, but that did not happen.
Of course, that is going to hit all companies in the business. The mining business has had a regular recovery, and we've been able to see that in all activities and also in the backlog of projects that Cintac has for the next year. Cintac has a very great issue, let's say, because we'll probably have to choose. If things work out correctly, we'll have to choose projects, you know, and that's great. What we wanna do, what we don't wanna do, that's great. The question is how we're going to finance that. We are asking that. We're considering that. Now let's look at the consolidated EBITDA. You can see on the left the graphs that have all these four. To the left, you have three months after three months, and to the right, you have the accumulated.
Overall, the slides will talk about what happened the last three months. If you look at the reasoning, it's also about both, but we can complement here. Quarter after quarter, I am going to share the big picture with you, which is the rest of the history. We were the same in terms of EBITDA quarter after quarter. When you look at an accumulated level, of course, EBITDA is dropping. What is that explaining? I think there's three messages here. Mining. Mining is going through issues with phase five, less dispatch, less prices, lower prices. And of course, with less production, that means that there's more or less dilution of cost. You know, of course, it's the same in the plant, but there's less dispatch. It's something we had already discussed and
Since prices were a bit better, there was an impact in mark-to-market, so about $15 million dollars. That was hitting us in the first quarter. The quarter for 2025, we have $32 million dollars that were positive, and then in 2024, we had $26 million negative. This effect is, of course, in our favor. As prices are kept, of course, this is going to be a utility, so we don't see a reason why this would change. That's something to consider. The industrial segment also improved and guided by Cintac. Cintac had a very good recovery, over 158% in EBITDA. All of this due to the Promet business because we did not get the recovery we were hoping. We have rates of occupation in hotels that are particularly good.
That all means that Cintac, apart from all of its measures for optimization of cost, they are creating the One Cintac where they want to have more efficiency. There is a plan that Vicenta is leading to have a cash flow so that we can manage that, and we'll start seeing results. Of course, Argentina has been very complicated and with the measures from President Milei, where the old tariffs are dropping. That means that the margin while sales are better, margin is dropping by about half in comparison to last year. Finally, the infrastructure segment is quite steady, and we really love it. It provides stability for the cash flow, and that's being kept.
If we look here online, you can see a loss of $72 million in the last line versus $359 million from last year. Let's remember, last year, there was an impact from the suspension of Huachipato. It was $336 million, and that is no longer there. We hope that the results in the last nine months of the year, that is going to improve in the last quarter. There are effects here in the last line for financial costs, and CMP has more debt. Of course, there's been a restructuring in the long-term debt. We are moving pay for the long term. That is good from the standpoint of the duration of the debt, but there's nothing cheaper than pay. It's really hitting you.
There's some changes and some expenses that are non-ordinary that are also part of the results. They are one-time issues. Okay, now we'll look into more detail what happened in revenues. There was an improvement of 15%. We can see on the right the CAP consolidation and what's consolidated. The main one is mining. There was a 16% positive growth, and we see the effects. We're looking at the total of income. We have the mark-to-market and part of the dispatches from CMP are CFR. There's a collection, and so both things. When we look at that, we see that this is hitting us even because we have less prices and then less dispatch associated to this recovery. You have to look at the curve and see how things are improving.
In terms of EBITDA, we are quite similar to versus last year with CMP. This has explained with these effects that increase or decrease. The industrial business, the improvement is accounted for by Cintac mainly. In terms of consolidated, we're quite similar to last year and last year's quarter. Finally, at a consolidated level, we have a $16 million negative in the quarter versus last year that had $8 million, which is mainly accounted for by the mining business. The effects are the ones that I just mentioned in the bottom right. Exchange rate effect and some non-operational costs and also the expenditures. Yes? Okay. In terms of the consolidated cash balance, we're quite strong still. One thing is that we've got losses throughout the year, but another thing is for us to burn the cash flow.
This year will be neutral in terms of cash flow. In the fourth Q, CMP should generate enough cash to pay the debt it took during the first half. I don't know if we'll be able to do this before December the thirty-first, but it'll happen before next year. It's a specifically complex year, and we're not burning cash flow. That's very important in the final cash flows. We have the investment in this period of $80 million in Aguas CAP, right, which is an investment not sustaining capital investment.
What does our debt look like? This is our debt by December 2024. This tower, I believe non-financial people like this, right? They always ask us why is it so high, this bar, and what's the risk? We've never had problems in renewing this, but based on that CMP worked in this last Q in refunding a hundred and fifteen million dollars of debt and with the medium-term funding, they lowered the cost. It's a trade-off financially speaking. In addition to the rest of the things that we've been working as a company that you know about, right? We took the debt for the procurement of Aguas CAP, the first blue credit of Chile along with the Banco Itaú accompanying us today, and we refinanced some of the debts that Huachipato had with Bladex.
This was done at a Huachipato level. It was considered a CAP level, and then the terms were extended. We continue working always and, caring for duration, moving the debts to a medium and longer term. Good news, right? For financial people. Okay. What does not look that good? This. We need to admit this, but it's important. One of the main metrics that we have is the net financial debt over the EBITDA. That's the debt I have minus the cash flow over the EBITDA the last twelve months. It's worth noting that this increase we reached was the worst moment, the 3.9, the third quarter, right? It has to do with the fall of the EBITDA versus the prior 12 months.
To the extent the EBITDA of CMP increases towards the last quarter, we hope this number will reduce. We hope that we can close three times by December, right? Just like we had announced, the worst happened, right? In the market, and we'll recover the levels under three. In the medium and long term, we must recover the investment grades levels, and we've got everything to do that. Now, I'm going to go into three businesses, right? It's three or four slides. I showed you a bit what happens in mining. You have this detailed. We'll publish this information, so you have all the data. You don't need to write everything down. It will be uploaded to investor relations. But as I mentioned, shipments dropped 9.7%.
Prices dropped with that, expenditure increase, but this helped us with mark-to-market at the end of the day. Now, look at the third. In the last part in the third Q shows us the mix of production of CMP. We've always said that CMP has a great advantage which is and it is that it's able to adapt its production mix to the market conditions. When market prices drop to the floor, it's more convenient to produce more sinter feed because in the gap there, it accounts for that, right? When the prices are good and premiums are good, I can produce more pellet feed or pellet, directly speaking. Now, the pellet premiums have been particularly low. In fact, they lowered from $40 in the indication of Vale to $30 and in the spot market paid for $20.
Therefore, it's hard for me to transform that to $30. Therefore, it's not convenient to produce pellets. What CMP did was it improved, optimized its production mix to the market, and that's why it didn't produce pellets in the last quarter. Will it produce in the future? It depends on the market. We'll adapt. That's a great advantage we have with CMP. CMP has the pellet plant that's got three different values. It's able to adapt giving the magnetite it's got to what the market actually needs. What happened with the cash flows? We've got two graphs here. The first one, which doesn't look that good, and it compares quarters from last year with the third quarter of this year. Here we see that this increase is now.
Despite the fact that in detail it assesses improvements in materials, energy, et cetera, but what accounts for this is a dilution. I put the same quantity of tons for plants, but of lower grade. I've got the same cost, but in the other side, less tons come out. That's it. That makes the cash cost increase, right? It's interesting to look at how the year is evolving. Here we're comparing what happened to the second Q of 2025 and what happened in the third Q of this year. We see on the graph in the bottom that we have an improvement. The improvement is explained by two factors. On the one hand side, of course, we have the increase of production and shipment that we're having this third quarter.
As I mentioned here, we started to see the recovery. Yes, we're going to fully see it in the fourth quarter. We also have the cost savings efforts as CMP has implemented. If you remember by June, we told you that there's going to be an impact between $70 million-$100 million of OpEx reduction during this year. That, of course, is materializing. We're looking at that, and it's what truly impacts with this. This cash cost will continue lowering towards the fourth quarter, which will make us end up complying, fulfilling with the guidance. The low range of that cost guidance, right? Seems like we're having some technical difficulties. We'll just wait for everyone to connect back.
Like Nico mentioned, we normally give the guidance more towards the beginning of next year, but given the Bloomberg expectations, market expectation for 2026, we believe it was quite sensible to share our best vision to align the market to what was going to happen, right? I'm going to tell you right away. I know that the market expects more. We saw on Bloomberg that we're waiting for around $600 million. Now, what will happen in 2026? I told you in 2025 we have two factors that strike us. We're transitioning from phase five to six. Phase five was on the final part of its life. They had two million tons left of mineral when the contingency happened. That meant that we were going to feed from stockpiles, right?
That continued during 2026 too. That will continue, right? Now we'll access the minerals of phase six, and that should happen in beginning of 2027. In 2026, we'll continue with the development of phase six, a high stockpile feed which will lead us to the expected production to be mildly better than the one from this year, but not much more. This is impacted, of course, by phase five. In June, we announced that it had an impact in 2026 of 400,000 tons less, which was what we were initially projecting. The production for next year, it's 15.1, 15.6, right? Will improve in 2027. We'll share with you that we're looking at a forward perspective.
Now, at a cash cost level, we said we were going to be this year between $52 and $57, and possibly we will close in a lower range of that. Next year we are looking at $49-$53 per ton. We have some improvements that strike us, right? We'll have in hindsight the impact of the cost control measures that CMP implemented. That's important. The other important thing is that January 1, 2026, our new energy contract will start coming into force. In addition to the fact that it's 100% green, the contract, therefore we will have CMP and Aguas CAP 100% with green energy. Despite that, it's even cheaper.
We had a cost of stopping this contract at the time, but we believe it was worth it, and that's helping us now. At a CapEx level, a point that the market has questioned us is, "Hey, when will you control the sustaining CapEx of CMP?" We were focusing so much on infrastructure, right? I told you that this happened with CMP. Remember the problem that we had with the crane? The ship loader, right? Yes. This year we saw it during 2025, the control of that CapEx, and now we're continuing 2026. We are aiming for almost $300 thousand in terms of CapEx, and CMP accounts for $275 thousand, or less 10%. This will vary according to how things happen.
That will include sustaining CapEx and some growth projects associated to some of the projects that we're conducting. The great message is here that the sustaining CapEx, which is what the market's been concerned about all the time because it hampers cash flow and EBITDA conversion, that is all under control and will continue like that. In total, $300 million approximately, right? In addition to some variations at 10%-15%.
Okay, now we're going to continue with our mining strategy. Critical minerals for decarbonization. Here our strategy summarize in high-grade iron ore and to make progress in our projects which are going to be critical for energy transition. We first go to CMP, and it's important to explain that what is the objective market, right? The market for iron ore, the total in the globe is 1,774 million tons, but there's 400 million tons here that are high purity. There are 400 million tons, and that is the market we're at now. It's a market that where there's a sub-market of this 403,113, which is the market that is over 75.
The way our mining projects are made up, we could reach this segment, but this entire market with 400 million tons has a price regarding the low quality iron ore, 50-68, 60-58, so everything coming from Australia. I think we're going to talk about this market in the presentation. Last year we were working on this market and we did not characterize it, and this is a bit more broad. This is the market, it's 65% up and 5.5% down in impurities. Okay, you can see them. This is a scan of the iron ore production in the world. Each of the dots is a place in the world where there's a level of impurity and also iron concentration. Towards the right, we see a better position and also going down.
This market with 400 million tons is basically what you see here. The orange dots are our values. We are positioned here in this rectangle, and there's a competitive advantage, and that means that 100% of the production belongs to this market. The projects we'll discuss now are projects that are moving all of these circles towards the right and down. In some cases, especially in Huasco, not so much CNN, not towards the right, but it's going down. That's something I wanted to explain in the beginning. Now, why is it so important? Because today we have a premium, and that is around $60. I'm talking about the premium, this premium, but this is not for 76, and it's a premium regarding 62. This premium is what we get with the direct quality.
We estimate that this is going to be in $80 by 2035 because this is a quality that we use for green steel. If there's a transition, a green transition, it's going to be really important to have this level of quality. Also if it was not green steel, there's an important advantage. The traditional circuit for steel production is using a less impurity iron ore because there's less contamination of particulate material, there's less energy consumption in several stages of the process. This is why it's so important to understand that we have an advantage and there's a return for customers and for clients that's really relevant. We look at the competitiveness given that we are in this segment.
We are here in this valley in Copiapó, it's less competitive, and Valle del Huasco is the one that's less competitive. When we look at the production curve, this is the entire market, 1.7 billion. When we look at the industry, the high purity industry, we are in the second quarter. Our projects, you'll be able to see that, they are in this area, so we are competitive. That's the message we want to share. CMP is competitive. We are in the market with a premium in regards to the standard, and we also have a perspective to continue growing in this type of market. When we look at this market with 400 million tons, it does not vary over time. There's not many projects that will contribute with this type of fit.
According to several researchers at McKinsey, with McKinsey and others, this is quite steady. Therefore, our production equals 3%, and then it's going to turn into 8% in regards to this bigger market. Now from the standpoint of, you know, the guidance, you already know this. We believe that by 2027, we should recover our normal production in regards to the mining plan. We'll see that in more detail later on. With the projects that we will look at in detail, the idea is for 2030 to reach 18 million tons. When all other phases of the projects are done, and they are producing, in 2035, we should be in $22 million.
There's a small difference in regards to the CapEx from the previous year because this geomechanical or geotechnical failure we had in Valle del Huasco made us reformulate our project and more than spreading CapEx in more time. Reaching $22 million in three years in regards to what we set last year. At the same time, we were looking at projects, and the projects are de-risk, and we'll have less risky projects in comparison to the previous planning. Therefore, the CapEx is going to be lighter over time and also more sparse over time. These projects well, this is part of a question that we were asked earlier. That is going to make our cash costs to drop significantly by 2030.
In 2035, it could be even better due to the absorption of fixed cost because we continue improving production from 18million to 22 million to from 30 to 35. Now we cannot commit to that. We believe that $45 per ton as cash cost according to this new productive processes is possible to reach. The volumes are going to be higher, and we'll have an energy contract starting in January 1 next year, and we'll continue with our efficiency projects, which are also being quite fruitful, and we'll continue working with them from now to 2030. Looking at projects, this is what we are looking at, the project in Valle de Copiapó, which is increasing the CMP production. We'll explain how much. There are two phases. First between 2026-2028, and between 2029-2030.
In Huasco, there is a phase where we increased. In the production tons and up as of 2030, we'll have an investment. That has to do with phase VII and also the reconfiguration, and we'll have to work in Mina Los Colorados. Second phase, that will allow us to up the production in Valle del Huasco in a meaningful way, 1,000 million tons. In a few minutes, we'll talk about in detail the production capacity. In the case of the underground project in Romeral, there's two stages. First one to 2026-2027, and then the second, 2032-2034. So that it's all very clear, each of these colors is an area where we have an expansion project.
In CMP, we start with 0.5 from 2027. In the second stage, there's two. In 2030, from then the successive investments where we are, the bottlenecking in this type of project. Then in underground Romeral, we have a capacity by the end of the period by 29.7. Then at the end, 2034, 2035. That's where we started with the underground method, which is something that we hope we have by the end in Romeral. Also for Mina Los Colorados, we started in 2030 with a small increase in capacity, which is something that is also part of the mine. Then we increase 1.5 with a final investment in the second stage.
It's less a risky investment and more sparse CapEx, and with relevant returns in terms of quality and also volume. Well, we'll go one by one. There's not many new things here. In CMP, the first phase is 4.2-4.9. Second phase is 4.9-5.7. We have the expected quality of 6% and a reduction of cost between 15%-20%. The CapEx this will be in the first phase of CLP 2 billion and about CLP 200 billion, so in the second phase. The key milestones, here's the beginning of the operation. The first phase at 2028, and second phase in 2030. In 2026, we'll be working in permits, feasibility, et cetera.
In the second project, El Romeral, there's a first stage of the current production, goes from 2 million tons to 2.5 million tons. A second phase that goes from 2.5 to 3.6. The quality of the ore could reach 68%, and CapEx is about $400 million in total. The first stage is $100 million, and the second stage is $300 million. The key milestones to the project are listed here. The permits will happen in 2026, and we'll start with this first stage now. Permits of the second stage will be between 2032, 2034, depending on the operation in 2034. The life of mine is something that we need to extend during this process from 2022, 2032-2034. We're working on it.
Mina Los Colorados, the normalization of the mine is 8.2. I was not explaining that in detail, but here's the graph. You can see this, how this is from Mina Los Colorados because it's a normalization of the mining plan. Then the project comes, so we normalize up to the production that we hope to have by 2027 once things are normalized, and then we contribute with more volume in the product. Lastly, Mina Los Colorados, the idea is to have a first stage with a small improvement in production, 8.2-8.5. It's going to have a second stage between 2030, 2035, starting in 2035, and also prolonging the life of mine because, as of now, the permits are up to 2034.
Then there's a production of at least amount of tons and, of course. There's a very good quality, and there's a first stage of 0.5, then 0.9. In total, these are the same CapEx from the capital market day from last year. Good news is that we are reformulating projects in a way that we can attend to new realities, new conditions, and in a way, the risks have been minimized in terms of concentration of project in such a concurrent stage with these three projects. Now we have more expansive CapEx and something that can be better addressed with the teams. What happens with rare earths with Aclara? Well, it's a bit difficult to understand, but we'll be explaining it.
Rare earths are 17 elements, light and heavy, and what you see up is light, and the ones that are down are heavy. There's something particular with lights which are magnetic, which are used for permanent magnets. Well, we'll not talk about applications, but what we see here, that's a doping of the permanent magnets, and this is what creates magnetism. Doping of permanent magnets is what allows to have high-temperature magnetism. Tesla electric cars, if they could not have these elements, you know, after using three, four hours, then they start losing power because magnetism and the engine will not continue rotating, so there's a loss in magnetism. This is why it's so important to use doping in this type of permanent magnets.
95% of the demand of rare earths, while there's other elements are very relevant, such as defense industry, et cetera. It's explained here by these elements in orange. Now looking at other projects, there's a relevant characteristic, and it's something that we characterize with deposits, which is proportion of rare earths and light earths. What we see in extreme, what we see with Rocatina in the north, and that is 1-100 in some deposits, so pretty much there's no heavy rare earths, so it's very scarce. There's something quite particular because we have deposits. Those, yeah, you see on the left, those are more concentrated. Look at Penco. Penco is a three to one, so it's the most concentrated deposit with heavy rare earths, doping of the permanent magnets. Carina is really good. It's really good.
It's one of the best actually. Penco is twice. Now, Penco, due to the difficulties that we had with permits, we reduced Penco to a volume of production that is quite small. It can be scaled up to seven times, five to seven times. With that, we reach similar volumes or similar dimensions to Carina. The total production of heavy rare earths is just adding Penco and Carina is 20-25 tons. It's 225 tons, so that is like reducing the gap between the demand and also what's being offered, and that's very relevant. This is a description of the projects. We have a description of Penco. We are moving along with the feasibility, and there's been drilling. Metallurgy is quite clear.
We have a pilot plant, full operation plan, and then one in Brazil, and that was in Penco. That's where we install it first. The idea is for this to start at full scope by 2028. Permits, as I was saying in the beginning, that should be in the first part of the year. Carina is the same. The regulation in Brazil is different. We need to have permits, and we're going to get those permits in the first stage of 2026. Then second, and the production of rare earths. Here you can see how it's going to produce 50 tons, 175. But if you look at the proportion, we see the concentration of rare earths in Penco versus Carina.
We are really excited because these are deposits with world quality, and we see the demand in the world. What are the main challenges that we are facing? You know, the permits. Adenda II was answered in September, and then we'll have the Adenda 12 in October, which came out in October. For the first part of the year, we'll look at permits. What happened with Carina and the environmental permit, it was required for the authorities in May. The preliminary license and the installation license, they are estimated one by the end of the year and the second by December next year.
Of course, the offtakes are the least concerning for us because there's lots of interest from the U.S., from Europe, from Japan, with these rare earths, heavy rare earths, and to get a big proportion of them, also light, but also heavy. The development of the plant engineering, that is also moving along. The plant is installed, and we've seen several potential off-takers. In Penco, the feasibility will be in the third quarter of 2026, and Carina will be in the second quarter of 2026. Here we can see what is the asset in Carina, especially when the geopolitical started between China and the U.S., and there was a peak in September, and then things went down because Jinping and Trump stopped fighting.
That does not mean that there's no interest from the West in creating this value chain and not depending on China. Regardless of the value of the stock, we believe that the interest is there, and there's a non-return route where, which is something that the U.S. started, Japan started, in a way that we can ensure the complete value chains from the mine to magnets in an independent way, independent from China. In 2030, the dream.
Well, not so much a dream, but it's more of a reality, and there's a concrete plan with milestones, having an iron ore production with high quality of 80 million tons and a production of rare earths, which is about 2,225 tons, which is about 12% of the rare earths in the world, and a production of light rare earths in about 1,300 tons. That's what we want by 2030. Now we'll go to non-mining, other segments in the portfolio. Well, here you can see a summary, an important summary, the strategic location of these assets and infrastructure coming from the intensity of the logistic of iron ore.
I think that's really relevant, and we need to try to not only use it, but to maximize the value and for those assets to actually provide a benefit because we cannot have ports used in about 23%, which reach about 60%. It cannot be that we have productive capacity for water and of course, there's we are trying to have a new plant when the investment, the marginal investment is important for supplying water. We need to be relevant stakeholders with having multipurpose, multi customers. That's also what's so important with iron ore, and there's an important potential for transaction. Of course, it's different from mining in regards of cost and capital, long-term contracts. This business unit is quite relevant from this standpoint. Now, Aguas CAP.
We have debt in CLP 50 million, that is 100% ours. We have a capacity for production of 400 liters per second, but we could reach with permit today up to 600. We have civil works that would allow us to expand the capacity without such a big investment to 750 liters per second. The increase in 50% is the most immediate and relevant. We have 240, if I'm not wrong, kilometers of lines, pipelines connecting the water plant with CMP and also Magnetita. We have several projects that are being expanded. These are new projects.
Environmental authorities say, "Okay, you cannot continue consuming water because it's very relevant for agriculture, for human consumption, so you need to desalinate water." The potential here is very relevant. In terms of that infrastructure pipeline, that's something that is an investment that we need to do. Well, I think I've said it all. Here's the transaction from earlier this year, and that's what allow us to create this strategy. Eventually, once this is developed, we need to find partners so that we can expand and replicate this in other valleys.
It's not that we need to own 100% of the water infrastructure, 100% of port infrastructure, but it's really relevant that we are there, and we so that we can understand the strategy of the assets so that we can develop that and for it not only to work as CMP and also CAP, but also, so that we can help the mining in the valleys because we want to create value, and that's what we saw in the beginning of the presentation. Same for port infrastructure. Here's Puerto Las Losas and Puerto Huachipato connecting the world through these multipurpose terminals. Today we have CAP and multipurpose port, and we have HCLP and HSLP and also Puerto Huachipato and CMP. There's 3 ports there. These ports are very well used.
Maybe there's some capacity in some of them with marginal investment, which can also follow that path of continuing with a profit. Most are used with their own volume, with high volume, with perspectives that are for the short term. Now we'll go to Las Losas, that is quite similar to what I was mentioning in Aguas. There's a series of projects that are really interesting in the area, copper, iron, and we have a projection of how much is going to be produced in the valleys. The payload port could be the gateway. Some iron projects that are independent from our mines. There's 29 two sites, which could create this type of investment. 29 hectares of backup.
We have permits to reach 600 million, of course, with the investment. When it comes to permit, we have, of course, we need to consider the cargo in Puerto Mejillones, and we need to use that port. We see what happens with the 180 tons, 380 tons of iron and copper concentrates. We have the projects, the copper projects. When it comes to permits and cargo transference, that is something that we could review with 2035, but the capacity is 2 million tons, so we could serve with these projects, which are quite close to the Puerto Mejillones and PLL, and we are working on it, and we have signed with potential customers.
We want to improve access to the port, which is something that will allow us to have a reasonable logistic from the mining sites to the port. HSLP, we have a few more slides here because I think that there is a relevant potential for Chile and also at a regional level. Today, we have—Let's remember that Huachipato transferred two million tons, so it was a capacity for two million tons. What it did was transferring iron ore from the north to the south and also coal from Australia. That kept the port in underuse. We started with the suspension. We continued with some clients, but the use of the port is quite small, so the potential there is relevant.
We have two berth sites and 188 hectares for logistics services, cargo services. It's multipurpose and also the bulk, liquid and solid. Thirty-five kilometers in internal railways in the port area, and that's really important. It's all connected. The stockpiling warehouses, everything, that is a competitive advantage. There's also connection towards the north and the south. That railway connection, of course, that's something that we can improve, and we're working on it. I think that there's an advantage and a potential that's really relevant for Chile. This port could be a great scale port if we were to believe in regions, and we could balance the import load because today Bio-Bío is an area of exports, mostly exports.
two million tons in current capacity, but it's something that we can expand without an issue. What are the competitive advantages of Puerto de Huachipato? There's an important capacity, operation capacity, and we could have a multipurpose, having containers and connecting it with Talcahuano, which is right next to it. San Vicente, we have a dock for bulk, liquid, solid, and we have an investment that will support more time than concessions. Connectivity, that is really important with 35 kilometers, five accesses for trucks and two railway accesses. It's a strategic location in the center of Chile. It's close to where salmons are, fruit is for exports. There is a connection with natural gas. There's a connection with a pipeline from Vaca Muerta to Huachipato, leading to Huachipato.
It could be a logistics center that could be quite relevant for Chile. The possibility of integrating the port with logistics and also looking at the backup, that is, we have 180 hectares, and that is a huge potential in comparison to what San Antonio has. It's several times we're talking about a backup area. The bay, of course, it's a protected bay, and it's really good for a port for containers and also for bulk. Now let's talk about Huachipato to clean zero. We are trying to reconvert Huachipato. We knew that this was a human issue, trying to help workers and, you know, those that had been working for many years, many of them, with broad experience, with metallurgic experience, helping them. We are moving along. Over 50% of all of them wanted to work.
Some wanted to do business and then, you know, providing service for maintenance. Others wanted to retire. Those that were left, we offered some sort of training, like a university, et cetera, coaching, for their curriculum so that they can expand them. Over 50% is enlarged, so that's a really, really good result on that side.
The financial impacts we announce of in terms of the cash flow point of view is gonna be between $120 million-$140 million. That is with this lower valuation. The accounting or accountable impacts, they're also between the ranges that we reported. We want to develop four hubs, we've told you, but with the territorial ordering that somehow yet again contributes to the development of Bío-Bío, which can be forecasted or projected from Talcahuano to the large area of Concepción, and we'll speak about that in detail. These are the four hubs, the industrial hub, innovation hub, biodiversity hub, and logistics hub. We then choose these hubs because they normally strengthen each other, innovation to industrial to logistics, conservation to innovation.
Because we need a beautiful place, right, where people go to, people that like being there, the people like living there, working there and having fun there. That's the logic and the strategy of the Huachipato reconversion. All this is led by a territorial master plan, which is conducted by Mr. Alfonso Vergara, an urbanist, very well known. He was quite responsible of the reconversion of Bilbao. You know that Bilbao was many steel companies, the river side, right? Bilbao is a city that is fully different now. It's reconverted. We're using the experience of Fundación Metrópoli Bilbao and other places too, Singapore, Barranquilla, Colombia, Cartagena, Colombia. He's a very well-known urbanist and some of you already know him because we brought him here and we've developed some forums in the region.
These four hubs are somehow being harmonized for them to work well by Alfonso Vergara and Fundación Metrópoli. What are we doing in the industrial hub? We wanted to contribute to the industry of economy and development of for Huachipato, for all this to be intact, right? That we're now driving the industries of the future like the steel industry was, sorry, at in the 1950s. We have a project for with SMS. What it designs from the point of view of engineering is a productive process with a renewable reduction agent, not with coal. We're developing that. Been developing that for a couple of years with them, and then that's advancing.
Now, this could stem into a series of things to produce, pig iron, green iron, right? But to recover vanadium, which is also at an iron level, right? The critical minerals, which is also part of our strategy to continue with critical minerals for decarbonization. Vanadium is used much for batteries, stationary batteries, the largest ones, right? Not the car batteries, but it's used much for that. Now, in Aclara Metals we're in critical materials, not necessarily in the critical ore minerals. Aclara Metals, what it does is it adds values to those heavy earths, right, and the light earth and the alloys that will be used. It creates the alloys that will be used for the permanent magnets, right?
Álvaro Castillón is leading that project, and it's a joint venture that we have with Aclara, 50/50. What we did there was to use, to reconvert all of our metallurgists, steel metallurgists, to this new metallurgy of the future, which are the rare earths, alloys, which are iron boron and rare earths. The productive process is not that known in the Western world, and we're developing that from scratch with that group of metallurgists, right? We're quite happy. We have a pilot project that we're installing now. That will be critical for the future scale of the project. Now, we're advancing much in storage of chemicals, which we already did, right, with Oxiquim.
We have a contract for a long time now with caustic soda, and we're advancing and trying to multiply that. We're here with the Huachipato team. The idea is for us to have an industrial center. We're contributing with all these industries, of course, with the innovation hub, right? It will contribute, and we hope that we have that hub also in Talcahuano. The industrial hub pipeline also incorporates limestone activities. This year we created activities and it created cash flow, but we still need more volume. We have 100,000 tons from scratch, right? We need to increase that to 10%-30% next year.
We need to create scale economies at the mine site so the production costs lowers, and that's what we've been advocating for during, and we will do in 2026. The idea is, in five or 30 years in the future to reach, to conquer other markets, not only agriculture, the agriculture and industrial sectors, but to also start operating mining, lithium and copper mining, who also consume limestone very much and also lime. We're trying to go into that market, which can multiply to three, four times the current groups, right? We have permits for one million tons for now. We're only mining 100,000. We have a possibility of growing, and Guarello is quite relevant. This is the limestone mine site that we have in Patagonia. Guarello, it's quite pure. That's the characteristic.
It's quite appreciated by mining, agriculture, et cetera, this lime. That's the industrial hub. In the innovation hub, the idea is for us to contribute to the Bío Bío region, and we're partnering up with two universities from the area, the University of Concepción and University of Bío-Bío. We're also interested in other companies that might be interested in being founding partners of this. The idea is that the former casino that you see there in the picture somehow it's designed by the national award of the architecture who won a national award of architecture, Mr. Héctor Valdés.
It's a beautiful building that looks at the bay. We want to transform this into a hub for the Industry 4.0, to bring the research and industries automation and everything that the universities are doing at the Bío-Bío region. Why not maybe to have other university, include other universities in the future that their industrial innovation hubs are there and that many startups could somehow go there with their companies in that place that you see there. We'll have leasing, renting of the place and then when we scale this up, why not do so in the industrial hub too? Which will be defined by Metrópoli, like the zone that we could potentially lot to provide more to have more industry in the area.
It's seven hectares, a capacity for 5,000 people and we already applied for a CORE Fund. Hopefully we do great and then we will have to drive this hub based on the innovation hub. The territorial hub, we won't surprise you that much here because there's a forum in November where the survey of all the stakeholders is. We'll have the results and how we wanted to reorder the Talcahuano zone providing all of our assets. We have more than 400 hectares. We need to integrate them. That does not include Cerro Lauk, which is 200 something more, right? We have a preliminary drawing here of the industrial biodiversity area, the innovation area. That innovation area is connected here through paths, right? So it's continuous.
This zone right here, which is close to San Vicente Port. It's all 180 hectares, right? Which is port logistics area. Here we have a port which we can perfectly reinforce and extend the ideas to create more port capacity. The second territorial forum is in November, which is the return of the opinion of people, not only of our people, but of all the stakeholders of Talcahuano for this master project, master plan that harmonizes these four hubs. Cintac. This is a construction for the future. It's part of our industrial segment, and Cintac is a company that was more in construction material and has evolved with the years in industrialized solutions for construction.
What we want to do is we want to reinforce and double-click there and only be left with the materials for construction businesses that are necessary, strategically necessary to develop the business, right? The industrialized construction solutions. We're currently at $95 in terms of market cap, and we're owners of 78% of the company here. We've got the non-recurring EBITDAs because this was actually a contract for $28, but it was a sale of a plot. Therefore, here there's a significant improvement versus last year, is not enough. We want to double that EBITDA through a series of initiatives, the first of which is the initiative of business efficiency to continue earning and winning the large mining projects.
There's an enormous pipeline coming up between $50 billion-$60 billion, and we have the opportunity to multiply by many times the modular construction capacity, lodging, et cetera, hotel, to continue offering this leasing and hotel services. We are also working in cost reduction projects in a quite applied manner to produce with lower cost and on a greater scale. In addition, all those capacities we have for modular construction that we've shown in mining, with that, we have a market share we're proud of, which is quite relevant, which we want to apply and have the social housing to DS 49, right, and DS 49 toward the first social housing projects. We have one in Rengo, and the second one is called One Cintac.
The idea is to capture all the synergies that are produced if we have an organization that advocates to sell in a cross-cutting manner all the products in all segments. That is, joining and creating energies. One Cintac to continue with zero-based budget, right? To deploy zero-based budget, to leverage Cintac group structure, and to optimize the industrial footprint, which will let us work on working capital, to have a leaner working capital, to the sale of non-core assets, right? We can produce them in less locations and to be able to create from $40 million-$80 million in five, three years, right? At lower debt, in a more rapid manner and to reach the debt ratios for Cintac.
Here we have a picture of a project that we were awarded in the Doñihue and Rengo region. 156 families in the Doñihue project and 259 in the Rengo projects are households that are quite simple, as you see on screen, but the specificity is that we can install them in just days. We produce them at a scale in the workshop which is certified, and we install them. It takes less than normal work, right? It contributes with efficiency. This habitational deficit we have, or scarcity we have, is quite significant, and we're quite motivated and happy that Cintac can become part of this market, taking advantage of all the capacities that we've developed throughout these years. Let's not leave aside our ESG objectives.
We're advancing in this logic of constituting, making up this portfolio of material for decarbonization, and our sustainability strategy has three large pillars. The first one is sustainable development. The portfolio involved in all the projects' populations, we incorporate the socio-environmental variables to assess all the different variables than the NPV or anything that goes into the question to choose one option or the other. Climate action, we have clearly defined certain KPIs of production, greenhouse, the reduction of greenhouse gases, the production, consumption of continental water, et cetera. The commitment we have with conservation, preservation and in Huachipato we have many of these examples, and it's part of our environmental strategy.
Last but not least, we have the shared value, which is not only part of our group, but it's. In addition, we've got the KPIs and very relevant objectives regarding human rights and community work where we operate. This is also with local labor, local vendors, and it's part of this block of the ESG strategy. Now, the first good piece of news is that our KPIs at 33% is already exceeded. We need to become a bit more demanding. This, of course, helped us with the suspension of Huachipato. That's why it was so fast and 100% of our energy starting January 1, 2036 is renewable. That's great news in terms of ESG. Some credentials. We're in the top 10% of one of the most sustainable companies in the world.
Sorry, in terms of iron ore and steel, we got the fourth place in the index of the most sustainable companies in the segment, and it's the eighth consecutive year that we're included in Dow Jones Sustainability MILA Pacific Alliance Index, with that incorporates all the companies and these characteristics, right? All the companies like in Chile, Peru, Colombia, Mexico. During 2025, we developed our framework, sustainability-linked frameworks for funding. This means that in the four blocks that we define in our strategy, we have KPIs that are established, that are audited. At the end of the day, everything is audited like I mentioned.
It's everything is pursuant to ICMA and LMA, and we're fully integrated with CAP strategy and we're now ready to issue debts and financial debt which are somehow linked to our ESG commitments, right? The current commitments, it's not just saying things out loud, but the idea is to link this to financial benefits of the company. Financial strategy and oh, you saved me because I my voice is not that well. How do we do this, the financial strategy? We want to reach a balance here. We want to strengthen our portfolio. We want to grow, of course, but not at all costs. We want to do this by maximizing the financial returns.
Therefore, we will continue with our capital allocation framework in a rigorous manner and strengthen our balance, improving the financial ratios and improving the level of debt. Now, tell me a bit more detail of this. What do we look like for 2030? This slide is quite important. In 2020, you can say that this is a mining company. What do we see for 2030? This is a company that's much more diversified. Iron is still quite important. We have all these 200 million tons of high-grade iron, right? But what happens at the end of the day is that we'll grow significantly in other businesses based on what Nicolas has commented.
If you see here, we have rare earths, and by 2030, the rare earths is producing, and we have a relevant percentage of the global market share. A question that is relevant because the global market share is produced by China, and the Western world does not want to depend on China, and we will grow in the industrial business with these businesses that Nicolas told us, right? Which are associated to Cintac. There's no next generation. Well, there's truly projects of next generation. Finally, as Nicolas mentioned, infrastructure is key for our mining businesses, but in addition, it is an enabler to later enter other businesses. It's an infrastructure with strategic makeup, right? It's not easily found, and it's not enabled. It enables us to continue growing, right? To find other opportunities.
Now, how do we want to grow? What are the opportunities for growth? It's hard to put everything into. We just have to choose, right? What are we looking at right here? Now, in order for me to execute our growth projects, and Nicolas was talking about this, we need to have reserves. We need good grades. We have excellent financial returns. What we have to do now is to execute and make this possible. Rare earths, I see a great opportunity, and we have options for growth, right? In our property and up to 40 modules in the Penco in 2019 and 3.9 in Aclara. So we've got resources, and we've got opportunities to continue growing. Why not other minerals? All of our deposits are called IOCG.
As you know, they've got copper, gold, silver and also iron in them. We will also explore opportunities close to our valleys when we can leverage the current assets, and we have some operational synergies. As we have information, we'll be able to share that with you. Now, in terms of non-mining core matters, right? As I told you in the prior slide, mining is in gray and in green, right? The rest is non-mining. In non-mining, we think about some strategic partnerships to grow and strengthen our business. It will grow in water. Not everything has to be done in isolated manner. We can probably have a partner that gives us strength to have a solid business, which is more interesting for both.
We must assign the proper management to optimize and to grow all these operations. As Nico said, it's an asset sweat, right? To make sure that we reap the best benefits out of these assets. This is already happening, for example, in the HLP port. We created a dedicated team with much experience who are responsible for developing the business, the same that will happen from the businesses onwards. How do we want to do this? We want to do this responsibly. We have the resources to do so. We're seeing that by executing all these projects, we're able to recover our investment-grade debt, right? We've got the resources. We are going to create the operational flows.
We have some assets that we can monetize as well, either incorporating some type of partner and those that are not strategic, we can possibly sell them with our strategy to recover our levels of indebtedness, right, in terms of the investment rate. This will allow us to have a portfolio with financial results, with financial returns that are more stable, that do not depend on the iron cycle. We must grow in these processes, looking for synergies between the different businesses and think about this as a system with a balance sheet that lets us be between, among the best, companies in the industry. Mr. Nico will close. Now, we're advocating to the construction of this portfolio. This section will let us have an integrated, portfolio, business portfolio that lets us, have, sustainable and innovative solutions.
That's what we're going to do, and we believe that the road that we've showed throughout this presentation and the focus for the next years to come up to 2030 are summarized in these four blocks. First of all, we must strengthen the mining core and iron ore mining of the projects we've commented about. The focus here will be to execute the projects well, and it's not a trivial focus, right? You know, in some cases where there are delays, there are some works, and we need to avoid that and build a good organization of projects that allow us to actually deliver those volumes and investments, no more than that. In terms of infrastructure, we must make our assets sweat.
We must make the production capacities and service capacities that we have for the water and the port to duplicate its maximum capacities and therefore to return those assets to what the assets deserve, right? What the current shareholders of CAP should have, right? That's quite relevant. We can do that. We're doing that. We have commercial teams that advocate to that, and we could potentially bring in partners that help us with our infrastructure assignment, that help us accelerate that road. Now, conducting or adding industrial value, we know about industry. We have metallurgists, we have people who are experts in the transformation of minerals to critical materials, and that's what we're doing. We were commenting what we were doing in Aclara. We commenting about what we were doing in Cintac.
Now we need to drive and create this industrial hub again in Huachipato. Along with this, turnaround that we're trying to conclude or finish in our Cintac. Financial discipline that Felipe was talking about is quite relevant. The focus there is the return on assets. The focus is a strategic fit that is within this portfolio that we've defined. Let's not lose sight or focus of that, right? Hopefully, we get to the ratios we want to arrive to, having funded all these projects that we have ahead.