Earnings Call: Q4 2019

Jan 24, 2020

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Castellum Q4 Report 2019. Today, I am pleased to present CEO, Henrik Saxbourne and CFO, Ulrike Danielsen. Throughout the call, all participants will be in listen only mode, And afterwards, there will be a question and answer session. I will now hand you over to Henrik Saxbourne. Please go ahead. Thank you very much, and welcome, everyone, to this Q4 2019. I will start to describe what we've done in 2019, and then we will also give you a view on what we see in front of us this year and the next coming years. And can we start, please, with changing the slide? So what we have done this year, 2019, we have worked hard with in the strong markets, and we have worked with positioning us for the future. And it has been a lot of ongoing negotiations and a lot of working with the existing pipeline. So we have rented out in the same pace that we did 2018, more or less over EUR 400,000,000 in contract volume. We have, in the last quarter, achieved new top rent levels in our portfolio. We have also seen contracts all over the portfolio getting to new levels simply. It has also been the year where we continue to renegotiate, and we have renegotiated in up to actually amazing 2% to 2% that is already in the P and L. So the rent levels in the like for like portfolio has been going up with 4.4% compared with last year. We have seen effects on our efficiency program, and we can I can proudly announce that we have saved SEK 60,000,000 in the portfolio? And that has also been something that we have benefit from when we're achieving our 7% growth that we created this last year. So and the existing portfolio has been the strongest contributor to the growth in the portfolio the last year. We have also strengthened the balance sheet, and the properties have increased with SEK 4,000,000,000 and are now above approximately SEK 95,000,000,000. So to this, we should add that we've built the properties for SEK 3,000,000,000 we bought the properties for SEK 3,000,000,000, but we sold also at the same time for SEK 4,500,000,000. This means that we only net invested $2,000,000,000 this year. And that was a contributor also to that we lowered the LTV down to 43%, together with the growth of the values, of course. And that is then we have constantly lowered LTVs that we bought and are put in 2016 and has one of the strongest or maybe the strongest balance sheet in the Nordics right now. It also been a year when we took the next step in the T euro bond market and benefited from the attractive interest rates and longer durations. And we are we also made our new business, United Spaces, profitable. So all in all, active year, stronger balance sheet and better position for the future to come. And with that, I would think I'll leave the word to Ulrike. Next slide, please. So if we go to the P and L of the income statement. When we close the book for 2019, we can conclude that income from property management increased 7%, And that was due to a good rental market, expressed in higher rental values, cost control, projects completed and lower funding cost. We also had a value uplift of roughly just above 4% due to strong cash flow, project gains and lower yields. And the last quarter's value uplift of roughly 1.5% was mainly cash flow driven. A negative change in derivatives. And then finally, taxes of roughly EUR 1,100,000,000, of which EUR 165,000,000 was cash flow driven. So this in all, together with strong balance sheet, is the reason for the board to propose a dividend of SEK 6.50 per share, and that is also an increase with 7%. So if you go to the next slide, please, and go into the NOI. So the story in the development of the NOI is pretty much the same as previous quarter, meaning that the biggest contributor is the like for like portfolio of pure management that increased with EUR 190,000,000 roughly, and that was mainly driven by top line growth and good cost control, followed by developments. And since we are in SLO 2019, it means also that we lose this cash flow compared to 1 year ago with EUR 172,000,000. And then finally, the co op part delivers a positive result even if it's small. But in that industry, it is pretty rare. So if we go to the next slide, we have the rental market. So if we look into the history, the rental market has, as you all know, been strong the last years. And the organization has therefore made a lot of renegotiation. And that is the reason for the like for like growth of 4.4% apart from indexing rental income. But rental income is a net of rental levels, the agencies and incentives. So if you split that in different buckets, 5% is the actual increased rental levels. And however, we have some increased vacancies but also lower income from tenants paying up for leaving earlier, and that means that the net top line growth is 4.4. Another value creating part is the development of the projects. So if we add that, the total growth in the portfolio is 7%. But as we have mentioned earlier, the net selling means that the top line growth lands on 4.4%. Percent. So if we then go to the next slide and look into the market. Yes. If you look at what we achieved on the rent and net leasing, we had better last quarter 2019 than last year. We had a net leasing of SEK 14,000,000 and the gross was actually SEK 146,000,000 that made the net leasing ending up for the year minus SEK 24,000,000. This consists of mainly leasing out in the existing portfolio and less in the projects than we have seen 2018. Going forward, we already know that we will have more signed contracts in the projects 2020 than last year. So it will be important to be friendly going forward. That means that we will have one of the best leasings out on the new developments next year that we ever see. So to summarize, a good leasing activity, a little bit more turnover in the leasing portfolio than earlier years, Good new contracts waiting for billing permission or something similar. So if you're looking at the supply, we can look at the next slide, please. It's very interesting actually looking at offices in the 3 cities that we take as an example. And the simple is that we can see that the supply is still too small in the near term. So even if you see a lot of more developments in the town, it will be built approximately 1% to 1.5% of the stock, and it's just in line with expected growth. This means that it's a very limited risk in the markets going forward. The reasons behind this is still slow zoning plans, and it means that we will still see lower vacancy rates and need for more density in our existing offices. It's the same picture in all our cities except Copenhagen. And we can look into rental levels and vacancies, if we take the next slide, please. We can conclude that increase in average for the markets in Stockholm has according to analyst Dan, the increase being approximately 7 percent all over the last year and in Gothenburg approximately 4% generally in the office. And said that we increased our rents into Q3, the P and L with 22% on the done negotiations. And we also have noted that we have done the best rental levels that we ever done. So for one example, we leased out in Stockholm our best CBD location for SEK 7,500 per square meter in year, and that's a new top ramp that we signed, and we signed it actually 2 weeks ago. The same pattern is still in the rest of the towns for all of our markets. So we see still a strong demand in the market and we still have very few less vacancies going forward. I mean, you will see that when we go through the project as well. If you look at the logistic market, it's divided in attractive location. There is more or less no vacancies in efficient assets. This means that the rents are increasing in the last mile locations. If you look at something called the national or international domestic assets, the rents who can be huge and be more or less anywhere in Sweden, you can say that rents are between SEK 500 to SEK 850 a square meter in year. And if they are located outside Stockholm, the rents will be approximately a little bit less than 1,000 grams a square meter. If we are talking last mile, we now see top levels in our portfolio, SEK 1740 a square meter in the year outside Stockholm. And we're talking outside Malmo and Gothenburg, the rents are up to SEK 1,000 compared with the old rent levels we had in logistic assets. So to summarize, strong stable market and limited supply continues in our markets. And then we can take the next slide, please. So a little bit of about the cost side. If we say something about the property costs, they have moved downwards or decreased if we put higher property taxes apart despite selling away costs or moving costs to other lines such as ground rent. And this has been created despite high unit prices in the market on heating, water supply, electricity, etcetera. And the main reason is the efficiency program that Henrik mentioned earlier that has so far saved us EUR 60,000,000. If we then look into the interest rate cost or the interest rate expenses, Castellum has the last year's work with lowering the LTV. Of course, that work has been supported by increased property values. But we have also worked with the level of debt in absolute amount. And since 2016, the debt portfolio has increased with only EUR 2,000,000,000 or 6%, while the property value has increased with EUR 24,000,000,000 or 34%. And as you all know, the last year's low interest rate environment has meant that the easiest way to bring down the average interest rate is to bring in new debt volume. Despite that, Castello Maoli has increased with 6% and has almost the same volume as 1 year ago. We have reduced the funding costs with roughly 20 basis points in average. So the duration in the interest rate portfolio is 3.3 years, and we're comfortable with that in this low interest rate environment. Another duration that is almost more important since the margin paid to debt investors bank is to make part of the funding cost is the capital duration. And I do realize that companies have different way to measure and look at this, either as a duration reflecting promises to lend money without knowing the funding cost or a duration under which we know the funding cost. In custodian, the first one we call capital duration, and that was 3.8 year at the year end. The latter, we call credit price maturity, and it was 3.2 year at the year end. And that, the last one, is the metric that we are focusing on when looking into duration. So duration for Castellan is equal to knowing the funding cost. And finally, taxes. Despite that Castellum has tax losses carry forwards, we do pay tax. And that is due to that almost all of it are locked in, in acquired companies and cannot be used for the whole group. We also had bigger reconstructions and depreciations possibilities in the last quarter due to completion of projects, which means that we brought down the pay tax. It's a late quarter. And the efficient tax paid, if we would not have had any tax losses carryforwards was 9% for 2019, and maybe that can be a guidance for next year, everything equal. And if we go to the balance sheet on the next slide. The balance sheet of Castellum is strong, and the LTV continues downwards and was at the end 42.9%. The valuation yield was unshaded compared to Q3, 5.1%. And this strong balance sheet gives us an NAV at the end of December 2019 of SEK 100,000,000 per share, which indicates a growth of 11% despite a dividend compared to 1 year ago. And when we do talk about NEVs, I think it's worth mentioning in on the next slide that new NEV metrics will be applied from QED 2020, and they are in line with EPRA's new definition from this year. And the very short version is that the 2 NAVs will became 3. And the NAV that Castellum are focused on is the long term NAV or the EPRA NAV, and that will tomorrow be equal to EPRA ENERV. So in the end, for Castellum, as we see it now, is just rebranding for us. And if we go to the next picture. Regarding the property portfolio, Castello focused on office, public sector and logistic warehouses, and they together stand for 86% of the portfolio from a value point of view. And the biggest regional exposure is towards Stockholm, followed by Gothenburg or Westaff, says on the slide. And the average valuation yield is, as I said earlier, the same as in Q3, but 20 basis points lower compared to 1 year ago. And regarding uplift for the full year, offices have shown the biggest uplift. And from a geographical point of view, it is Stockholm that showed the highest uplift. But I will come back to valuation. That showed the highest uplift. But I will come back to valuation later. And then Henrik, the projects. No, I think I will talk, if you look at the next slide, on property markets, giving you some view on from the internal side. We have had a turnover in Sweden on EUR 218,000,000,000 approximately, and it's done EUR 4.47 deals in the market. We have experienced huge interest for the direct market. We have seen that on the prices. We have seen foreign investors execute 30% of the deals, and that's a high figure of historical reasons. So you can more or less say that the simple way of looking at it, yields down, still continues down. And my view is that we see that continues into the market going forward. And you can more or less say that all types of existing assets in our part of the Nordics with lower yields except for retail. So a very strong demand and less investor opportunities or opportunities still in the market. So it's a strong extremely strong market that we're looking at. And then I guess let you go back to valuation, Ulrika. Sorry. The valuation on the next slide. We have an internal valuation in the balance sheet, and that amounted roughly EUR 95,000,000,000. And this year as well as previous years, we let an internal valuer, FORUM, do a valuation of 55% from a valuation point of view of the portfolio. And that part of the portfolio reflects Castellum spread, you could say, in different asset classes and geographic. Comparing Castellum and the external valuation, it shows that Castellum is 1.8% above the external valuer with an average deviation of 6.2%, and that is well within the uncertainty scope that is normally 5 percent to 10%, depending on type of asset. However, there is differences within different asset classes where you could say that Castellum are more positive to logistic and public sector and less positive to retail compared to the current valuation. And that is, again, the same story as last year, but the differences is, however, smaller. If you do look into our gross value changes last quarter, it is mainly cash flow, and it should be like that in the market we are in and the fact that we know the CPI update for 2020. And as you can see, the impact from selling is negative, and that is mainly connected to us leaving Sunfel in the north and for retail assets in Uppsala. And that negative impact is, however, mitigated by the deferred tax income further down to the P and L account. And if you look at the next slide, please, we have this map over all the projects or developments. And I was just want to conclude that the pipeline is large. What you now see that we have EUR 10,000,000,000 plus EUR 4,000,000,000 under production. It means that we have EUR 14,000,000,000 that will be started or are under production all over Sweden at the moment. So it's not only large, it's also divided into many midsize projects. And so we are not depending on one single one zoning plan or one political decision, and that's very good going forward. And the yield on the total cost is attractive compared with the market yield still. The office are completed, are average on 6.5 percent or 6% yield compared with the market. And we still know that we can do logistics approximately on a sales percent yield. So this is very profitable going forward, simply. And we have if we go to the next slide, please. We can see the development pipeline that's ongoing. And here, we have the ongoing SEK 2,400,000,000 and we are more or less going to double that during 2020 if it's according to plan. And the next coming pace of projects together with the ones that are ongoing has a good pre rent situation. So this looks really, really good. And I can also state that on the first line, we have Orest Karet, and that's the same development that's called Stockholm Water earlier. And here, we state that we have 28% rented out. But we also will announce now today that we are renting out the 2 hour co working concept. It means that we will only have 3,600 square meters left in that development in the first phase before we start to develop new parts of the development. And it's also a site where we have top rents on these markets. So going forward to next slide, please. We have some examples. I'm going to run through them quickly. We have the Swedish courts. It's closed courts that you know that we are building in Malmo. 25,000 square meters, dollars 1,200,000,000 Here, we more or less only are we're only waiting for a building permission from the municipality. And when then is signed, we will start the development, and you will see that coming into the net leasing. That's not in the figures right now. So that will come hopefully Q1 this year. We can take the next slide, please. Here, we have some more developments. We have the greenhouse. We are in Helsingborg right now. We have started it 7,000 square meters. It will be completed in summer 'twenty two, and it's leased out now to 31% already before we started. It will also include all the new technique we have in house. This will also be included service concept we have. So we're really looking forward to getting that into the market. And we also have here Dragafruen. That's what's called Kungsvasarson, and it's in Uppsala. And it's something we have worked with for a long time. It's 12,000 square meters, more or less, on the train station in Uppsala. We leased that out to 69 percent. It's under development. So it looks really, really good. It will complete it in 2021. We have Eemergamten, that's on the left hand side. It's 4,000 square meters. It's under marketing right now. It's the 1st house in a new area that will be very interesting for the town. It will be a new area with apartments, offices, includes the one of the best restaurant locations in Gothenburg on old industrial land, acts absolutely out by the water, somewhere I would like to live. But now we're building an office instead. So hopefully, we can see that going forward. And the last one on the right hand side, it's down in Lund. I also want to address the operation. It's not only offices. It's also service and logistics for the cities we are in. This is something we can build rather quickly and getting high density into the areas we are. And with good leasing activity, this cost and supports the cash flows already next coming year. And the last one is Seveld Airport. We have heard me talking about that earlier. But what's important now is that we completed the acquisition on Seve in the end of last year, and that was really a favorable deal for us. It means that we can invest over the investments with SEK 1,000,000,000 compared with what was done in the first deal. It means also that we can move faster. And as we started earlier, we have where we have stated earlier simply is that we expect to invest approximately SEK 10,000,000,000 the coming years in this area. It will be logistics, but it will also be a development center for sustainable transportation, both in the air and on land and the biggest heliport in the Nordics. So this is extremely interesting. And on the next slide, you have hopefully seen in the results that we turned United Spaces around and had positive figures in this already on this year. So it's very positive and it's sustainable. But what's new is that we will now then start on 4 new sites in 2020, 2021 in Uppsala, Stockholm, Helsingborg and Gothenburg. And together, they will double the volume, and it will be more to come. Simply like that. So then we go to next slide, please. And then funding costs. Castellum lacks flexibility and want to have many tools in the toolbox in order to match the organization or the profit portfolios need for money. We have been active in 3 markets or used 3 tools for quite a while now: the banks, the bond market and the CB market. We experienced good access to funding within the Nordic banks and, at the moment, stable margins despite new regulation put onto them. However, that can change, and it will almost likely do. The demand in the bond market is good. There is a lot of money out there seeking placement. Focus in the market is, as we experience it, 2 to 5 years in the Swedish bond market, even if you can do a bit longer duration in smaller amounts, but a little bit longer in the Uroban market, up to 7 to 8 years. And the short part of the capital market, the so called CP market is stable. The prices in absolute amount has increased due to increased diver, but the spread has come down. So despite that, we continue to see the CP market as a cost arbitrage compared to lending in banks and has a value outstanding roughly of roughly EUR 5,000,000,000 that, of course, is fully backed up by unused credit facilities. And what has Constellum done 2019, if you look into the next slide. So when we close the book for 2019, we can state that we have negotiated EUR 7,800,000,000 in bank debt and prolong the duration. We have closed down bank debt of roughly EUR 1,600,000,000. We are a net issuer in the Swedish bond market. We have issued EUR 4,100,000,000 on different ratios from 2 to 10 years. We have issued EUR 850,000,000 for a 10 year bond and EUR 400,000,000 ever for 7 years, so high activity. At the moment, we do see that even if we have issued a lot of bonds that we still will have a considerable volume of bank debt, mainly in RCF since, as I said earlier, they offer a good liquidity and flexibility for us. And regarding the CP market, we still continue that to use that market for cost reasons. At the year end, we have roughly EUR 20,000,000,000 in non used debt commitments, of which roughly half is back up to CPs and liquidity reserve. The rest stands ready for being used. So with that said, the access to different debt funding sources, different debt markets, together with a really strong balance sheet and good underlying cash flow means that Castellan has a really strong financial position going forward. And if you take the next slide, I think that's maybe the most important one, what's going to happen in 2020. If we look into the market, we still can see the Nordics looking just in a stable position as it is now going forward. We can't see anything else than it's huge demand. In our view, with more to come on the value growth, We can see the direct market has capacity to create strong growth on returns, and we're also seeing the return on equity or the demands on return on equity going down. So we are positive on value growth going forward. We can see the supply will still be limited to 1% to 1.5%. And in the near future, we can't see anything else that would interrupt the market in that respect. If you look at the customs side, its development continues towards e commerce in the logistics. It's strong. It needs to be rebooted. It needs to be have new structures, and you will still see tenants looking for efficient way to do supporting the e commerce that are growing. You will see the strong developments going forward on sustainability. It's really here now in the Nordics. It's you wish it to be more efficient, and you therefore want to more have more density in your office since the prices is still stable or upwards simply for the tenants. If we're looking at the Castellum way or this Castellum, I can conclude now that we are very strong. We have a strong balance sheet and we can create our own growth. And I think that's one of the most important things. Whatever happens, we can do this. We have Pasadena Development Pipeline. They have existing portfolio that gives us growth and better quality than we ever had. So we know that we can start SEK 10,000,000,000 in the next coming 2 years. And that will, of course, impact it in 2021. And in the existing portfolio, there are three things that we'll be able to create growth. It's still the renegotiation power, more efficiency that we have shown that we can do and we will continue doing. We know the knowledge and we know what we're going to do. And this strong balance sheet that are coming back to you that we will benefit from. So we have the capacity to take care of our tenants simply. So I then want to conclude this. And thank you for listening and start with some questions. If you take the next slide, please. Thank you. Thank And our first question comes from the line of Nicholas Herbjorn from Nordea. Please go ahead. Your line is now open. Yes. Good morning. It's Charles Herglund, Nordea. A couple of questions from my side. If we first start out with the rental market, I mean, you gave a pretty positive view here. You weren't that positive in the Q1 of the year, but then it seems like things have been turning on the positive side. You're mentioning that you're awaiting these sort of building permits for 2020 and should be then supported on at least on the gross lifting side. Could you share some numbers in total and the timing? We know the sort of Cortin Malmo, but for the other projects. I can say that the big bulk that we will start with is the 21 in Malmo. And as you said, the court we are waiting for that one, hopefully Q1 then. I think you have to wait another quarter on E. ON, and then we hopefully will have the permission in place there. Then we have smaller projects that we have not named that in this is the same category. And they will give us permission during the year, more than I expect. So you will have a line of midsized ones coming in more or less in a stable pace and going forward in the rest. But the big difference is, of course, that we will start over SEK 2,500,000,000 to around SEK 2,500,000,000 in the first half year. Right. And any numbers that you would like to share with us? It's Malmo sales of around $105,000,000 or something like that. Sorry, excuse me, I didn't get a hint. Is it around Sizes, I mean, could you share some numbers on gross margin? I would love to come back to that. I would love to come back to that. So simply take so simply take the out the SEK 2,500,000,000 that we talked about and then pace into the numbers the rest of the SEK 10,000,000 going for this 2 years then going forward. Great. And my second question is related to the property market. You had a pretty decent finish to the year with close to 1.6% revaluation support. I was a little bit surprised that yield assumptions remained unchanged and that we at least we've seen a couple of transactions, and we've been talking about pretty good demand. So why aren't these coming down? I think it's two reasons actually. I mean, first of all, it's the value. I mean, in this dividend, you have different things. But if we start with the value, we are in a pattern of lower yields that we explained. And it's just where are we right now that it's very complicated to getting right price, honestly. So I'm positive on yields going forward, so I have that said. The second thing is actually, in this season, our numbers, one figure that gives us a little bit more tricky is called the vacancy figures that are changing in that valuation. That gives you that we are still under 5.1% in that one. So I can support your view and say let's see where we are in Q1 and Q2. And then my final question. I mean given the quite positive outlook and the support from projects and sort of value, so why are you keeping your balance sheet this strong right now? Is it a good opportunity to sort of utilize the strength? Or are you waiting for something to happen? We want to do really good deals, of course, and are cautious on that one. But I think we definitely would like to, in the future, benefit from the strong balance sheet. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Filip Halbe from Danske Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is now open. Yes. Good morning. I wondered if you could share some light regarding the quite large terminations that you had here in Q4 in both the region West and the mid region. I know that in Q3, you talked about you moving around some tenants in the logistics side. But could you give any updates regarding this quarter? No, I agree. We have I think you're going to expect we're expecting a higher turnover in the portfolio going forward. I think that's part of the pattern you see in the market. And in this case, on the negative side, I mean, I like to talk about the positive and negative, but if you want to talk only on the negative, I think I know that this is the largest ones is 2 larger contracts that are giving us notice. One is definitely moving and one other, we hope to renegotiate and keeping them in our assets. But yes, you so expect a turnover. The ones that we're talking about is, in this case, I should say, more or less government investments or government companies. But that's it's not a trend or anything. It's more something that you see all over the place. We're helping our tenants to get more efficient. So this is something we're getting used to. So think in future of turnover that we have to be a winner. We're going to be a winner in that, but on the negative side simply. But the most important part is that we turned around the last Q4 net leasing to a positive figure compared with last year. Okay. And then I have another question regarding you talked about and you've talked about it for quite some time that it's very fierce competition on the transaction market and that the way going forward is more related to project investments. You stated you have roughly SEK 10,000,000,000 to invest here in the coming 2 years. But I guess this is true for most other companies as well, and we have seen a quite large ramp up between both listed and unlisted players within product development. So I'm not worried about the supply side, but what are your views and competition for new tenants going forward in relation to new project investments? No. I think it's very important to look at the pre let figures on the developments, and that's why we focus on that. And we have high demand on the pre let before we're starting anything from our side. And the good thing with the pipeline of development is that you in the last minute can decide if you're not going to do it, you're not going to do it compared with the market. So I think that's the figure they're going to look at. And as I stated earlier, we are looking at what's possible to build and are planned to build the next coming years. It looks that we still are on a pace of 1% to 1.5%. And I was actually expecting that figure is going to be higher. But we are 1%, 1.5% going forward in the next coming year quarter, we can see at least in our towns. So on the competition side, I would honestly love to say that we was in our towns building a little bit more to support the goods that are in the towns right now. So not worried at this moment, and that will cause something that we're following in very, very closely. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Erik Grafstrom from Carnegie. Please go ahead. Your line is now open. Thank you. Good morning. I had a few questions as well. I would like to start off, first off, with your investment page within the portfolio. You're reaching close to €3,000,000,000 for 2019 or close to €2,800,000,000 which has been sort of the figure that you've had for a number of years now. It seems to me, Henrik, that now your project portfolio is increasing. Is this still sort of a figure that we should expect for 2020 and going forward? Or do you already, at this point, are able to give us some other figure for 2020 in terms of your planning? No. I would like you I would in this pay the pace that we will have 12 months from now, I expect that the pace for that month is going to be double that it is right now. It means that we can't get the volumes up, but more quicker. And it's all depending on the big two ones now going forward when they start, but the pay is going to go up. So we're going to double the pace on the development side. And it's just a question about when the starts simply. So if you take isolated 1 month from December compared with 1 month December now, 1 year, I think it's doubled. So if we give you the rough figure where we're going to go for the total of 2020, maybe we're going to pace it up to SEK 3,500,000,000 something like that, to be honest. But we are going for double sided pace simply going forward. Was that clear? Yes, absolutely. Perfectly clear. Thanks very much. Just to sort of go back again and talk about those 2 main projects that you have in Malmo, it seems like they've been a little bit delayed in terms of the permission process or the permit process. Do you feel right now, is that Q1, Q2 indication, is that something you have more firmly now from the invested parties in the discussion? Or is this still a little bit up for grabs? You have to if I divide them, we take the courts first. They are, I should say, it's going to be there March, April according to plan, to be 100% clear. I don't have any documents more that they have to be signed except the building commission, then we're done. Contract is done. Everything contract, everything is done. It's just the billing commission coming forward. On the E. ON side, it's still under design compared to because of some government demands that we have to clear. So that's out of our hands, but we are still waiting for getting that through the procedures. And if that takes 1 or 2 months longer, we don't know. So I should case that in during the Q2 right now. And if that moves, then we can come back with more information simply. Okay. And my final question was actually regarding your sort of your trend or your plan that you had for Finland. It's been 1.5 years now, I believe, since you made your first and at this point only acquisition in Helsinki. You were looking into increasing your portfolio there because I assume you would like to get some more economies of scale. What's the plan in Finland? Is competition simply to hire? Is it something else that has sort of changed your mind or view of Finland and Helsinki? No. It's simply we're not the only one in love with Finland, to be honest. So we're not dancing right now. Someone is stealing the bride on the dance floor all the time. So yes, it's a good competition. It makes us a little bit slower, and we have all the time to adjust our requirement for return. So we're looking into that. And we're spending a lot of time on how we will look in Helsinki, what's the opportunities going forward. My view on growth is still the same as it was earlier, but we're not the only one to dance essentially. Okay. So a little bit more aggressive on the dance floor and which should be good to go. Yes. All right. Thank you very much. Those were my questions. Thank you. Thank you. And as there are no further questions registered at the moment, I will hand the word back to the speakers. Please go ahead. Yes. We thank you, everyone, for listening. And if we don't have any touch with you in the next coming 2, 3 months, we hope to have a call with you in April again. Thank you very much. And this now concludes our conference call. Thank you all for attending, and you may now disconnect your lines.