Welcome to the Cibus Q1 2025 Report Presentation. For the first part of the presentation, participants will be in listen-only mode. During the Q&A session, participants are able to ask questions by dialing pound key 5 on their telephone keypad. If you are listening to the presentation via webcast, you can ask written questions using the form below. Now, I will hand the conference over to CEO Christian Fredrixon and CFO Pia-Lena Olofsson. Please go ahead.
Good morning. Good morning, everybody, and welcome to our webcast for our Q1 2025 results. Christian Fredrixon speaking here, and joined as always by.
Pia-Lena Olofsson.
Welcome, everybody, and thank you for joining. Let's jump to the next slide, please. My favorite slide, you will recognize this: Converting Food into Yield. This is still what we do and are planning to continue to do. We are now doing it, though, on a pan-European basis. As you will see, what the biggest news in this quarterly report is, of course, that we now have—we are now reporting with the two acquisitions made earlier this year in Benelux, the Forum Estates acquisition, and the Danish portfolio of nine assets, which we closed also earlier this year. Those figures are included about two or three months of this quarter. Cibus, converting food into yield. Most of you will recognize what we're saying here, but what we do is we're a real estate company focused purely on daily goods properties.
We're the only listed vehicle in the Nordics to do exactly this. There are a couple of European peers and other stock exchanges in the U.K. and some in Germany, but we're the only ones listed in the Nordics. We've been listed since 2018. We've been paying monthly dividends to our shareholders for—this is the fifth consecutive year we've done that. We've grown from a Finnish supermarket portfolio into the pan-European grocery real estate player that we are now. Our market cap mid-April was about EUR 1.1 billion, and our aim is to create these stable cash flows, which I'm going to talk about a bit later, and also increase earnings capacity per share, which is our key metric, which we follow internally very, very closely.
Our properties in Q1 2025, for those of you that have followed the pro forma, which we have talked about before, latest in our Q4 results, you will recognize many of these numbers. A point to make there is that the Forum Estates integration is going very, very well. I think we're very happy to see, of course, both that the integration is working well and also that the figures are in line with what we said in the pro forma. You'll recognize most of these slides. We have now 640 properties, a property value of about EUR 2.4 billion, and an earnings capacity of 156.3 and 1.3 million sq m. If you look at our tenant share of NOI, you will see that we have a very well-diversified portfolio when it comes also to our NOI and counterparty risks.
You will see now that some of the household names from Europe, other parts of the Nordics, have increased. Just summarizing some of the figures you will recognize before, 81% of our rental income is from non-cyclical daily goods tenants, which is a high and good number. 95% of our properties are anchored by daily goods tenants, and our average property size is 2,100 sq m, which is more or less a supermarket. We have a supermarket portfolio, more or less, in all of our countries. 99% of our rental agreements are index-linked, which is very important when it comes to growing organically just by itself. We tend to follow what happens in these CPI-linked agreements. That is how we grow some of our NOI.
Our WALT, I know Pia-Lena will talk a bit more about this later, but in Belgium, there is a statutory right for retail tenants to give every three years to give notice to leave a building. That gives us the opportunity now to present the WALT in two ways. What we call the WALT, which is 5.8 years, which is the long contract in Belgium, what is actually in the lease. Then a worst-case scenario is the WALT B, where every single Belgian tenant would give their three years' notice when they can. The truth is somewhere in between. The underlying portfolio, the Nordic portfolio, has had a WALT of about five years since the company's inception and is stable around that figure. 90% of our leases are net to triple net, which shelters us from property increases from the tenants or on the properties.
This is a win-win situation for us and the tenants, because for the tenants, these stores are a very important part of their operational infrastructure. They want to be able to manage the stores and the sites in the way that they see fit, so the customers and deliveries can get in and out in an easy way, but they do not necessarily have to own the assets. We are happy to own the assets with these net and triple net leases. Creating stable cash flows also comes from a large hedging ratio. 97% of our debt is interest hedged, and we have been working throughout the quarter to extend that. At the end of the quarter, it is 2.7 years our interest hedge maturity. When it comes to the actual quarterly figures, a very strong quarter we are happy to report today.
As you see, rental income is up 28% year- on- year. Please remember, this is only including the new acquisitions for two of the three months of the first quarter. Net operating income up 30% year- on- year. The profit from property management amounted to EUR 38 million, up from EUR 12.2 million. Worth noting, of course, there is a very big other income post in here, which is a EUR 20.5 million negative goodwill post.
This arised from the acquisition of the Forum Estates portfolio, where it was carried out at a discount. When it comes to earnings per tax, EUR 31 million. When it comes to the unrealized changes in value, which is EUR -7.3 million in the quarter. Sorry, just to repeat, people are saying that there is an echo in the call. Is this something we can be assisted with? Are people having problems with this?
Let's continue and see if more people. Okay, our moderator says she hears everything perfectly. Okay, let's continue. Back, unrealized changes in values. When it comes to the value changes in this quarter, values were up in all of our countries apart from Finland. In six countries, they were up, and we're happy to see that. It's stable yields and increasing slightly in those six markets. What we see in Finland is also stable yields and a stable property market. What we see here is that there are two properties where our tenant, Kesko, has given notice that they sooner or later will leave. This is really nothing out of the ordinary. This is the normal course of our business. Some tenants come and some tenants go. In this case, there was a hit on value in Finland for these two assets.
I think partly it's normal course of business. I think we've already shown, as we've demonstrated and mentioned in the press release from last week and also in the report, that we have active plans on how to manage these types of assets. In Finland, when Kesko left one of the buildings in Helsinki, we have now, during the quarter, sold it to another grocery chain who will open their own store in that building. I think there's alternative use for our assets, and I think we've proven that. That's how we deal with these types of assets. Our EPRA NAV is almost EUR 1 billion and EUR 12.6 per share. This is our growth timeline. A bit of a hockey stick at the end, of course, as seen with these large portfolios.
A comment worth making here is that we look across all of our seven markets, geographical markets, and also in the rest of Europe to see where we can get the best yield spread and the best return for our shareholders. That means that we grow only when we see cash earnings per share accretive transactions. Growth in itself is not a target we have, but we see the opportunities to grow right now. We are the only listed real estate company owning retail assets listed in Europe that are trading at a premium. That, of course, gives us opportunities to grow. Earnings capacity per share, as mentioned, this is the key metric for us. Happy to see that this has now grown for the seventh consecutive quarter.
The pro forma figure of 1.04 is what we hit dead on target now here in our Q1 earnings capacity. That is 8% up year- on- year. As mentioned, this grows through top-line indexation growth, 99% index-linked leases. We have lower margins both on banks and bonds, and then there are large acquisitions which we have carried out. As a point here on the key takeaways from 2025, improved results, NOI up 30%, as I mentioned, profit from property management up to EUR 38 million, including the negative goodwill. EPRA NAV per share up 8% and earnings capacity up 8% quarter on quarter, I should say, and then increased earnings capacity per share 8% year- on- year. Integration is going very well and delivering according to plan for our Forum Estates acquisition. In 2025, I am happy to say that we have also already announced some transactions.
We've made some accretive acquisitions in daily goods assets in both Belgium and in Finland. Very happy to see that we are working and cooperating so well with our new Belgian colleagues, which have also allowed us to sell a number of non-strategic assets in a couple of our markets. In Belgium, we've sold a number of DIY assets, which is not really converting food into yield. During the quarter, we've also been busy with refinancing of bank loans. As announced last week, we carried out a refinancing of about 19% of our total bank loans with more than 50 basis points lower margins. We carried out the bond earlier this year in January at a 250 basis points spread. That has moved the average credit margin of all debt now in Q1 from 2.9% - 2.3%.
Hedging, as mentioned, we've extended this to 2.7 years at attractive levels. We carried out a spread or a new hedging here in April when markets were really, really choppy and volatile and managed to get that at 1.7%, 1.97%, which was a great achievement at the time. Now, we'll see where interest rates are going. I mean, it's anyone's guess what's going to be the strongest here of the factors driving inflation with what's happening in the U.S. and with what's happening with European defense spending, etc. Will central banks cut interest rates because of recession risks and the recessions we're seeing? The way we handle that is we prefer to have a large part of our debt hedged, interest rate hedged, and extending maturities on those to make sure that we can continue to deliver stable cash flows.
At 0.7 here on the macro and geopolitics, I think it's worth saying that we're very happy and pleased that we're in the daily goods sector. It's a non-cyclical and resilient sector. Not much food is imported from the U.S. into the EU, so it won't be one of the most hard-hit sectors from any of this continued tariff and trade wars. Also, people need to buy and eat food, irrespective of if it's a pandemic or if it's high inflation or if it's trade wars. Happy to be in this sector, stable cash flows and stable tenants with stable margins when it comes to the larger grocery chains. Looking forward, we are happy that we have been given a 20% new mandate for the board to raise new equity.
Happy that our owners have supported us there at the EGM, which is a tool we can use if we see the right accretive acquisition opportunities. A short on the transactions we have announced in 2025. In Q1, we bought a grocery store in Beringen. It's a Jumbo store. Jumbo is a Dutch retail chain, which is prevalent in Belgium. As mentioned, it's an 18-year lease, but then there's, of course, these three-year breaks. The way that the Belgian system works, the Belgian lease system works, when tenants have this three-year break option, is that the properties are let out more or less as shell and core, which means that the tenants often invest between EUR 2,000 and EUR 2,500 per sq m. When tenants are that heavily invested, they're not likely to leave within short notice. They're invested heavily, and they invest themselves long-term into the buildings.
We acquired also a store in Finland, a newly built, or it's a store under construction with an 18-year lease with a major grocery chain in the town of Iisalmi in the middle of Finland. We made acquisitions for EUR 9.3 million, which have been announced. Only one of those was in Q1. The Iisalmi store is in Q2. When it comes to the divestments, I'm happy that we're regenerating some of our internal capital as well. We've sold these DIY stores in Belgium, as mentioned, let to the DIY chain Gamma for EUR 10.2 million. We've also sold these grocery stores in Helsinki, which I mentioned. One is a store which Kesko is leaving. Immediately we sold that at a significantly higher value than book value. We sold that to another grocery chain who wants to open a store and move in.
I think that's exactly what we see, and I've talked about before when it comes to grocery, that more or less all of the major chains across Europe want to grow. In Lidl in Sweden, for example, they want to open 100 stores as soon as they can. ICA is opening 10, 15, 20 new ICA Maxis, which is their hypermarket. There is a lot of pressure when it comes to opening new stores and wanting more space. I think if you compare this to other sectors where there's a bit of questions on what's occupancy rates and what's the demand going forward, when it comes to grocery, demand is very strong for these locations or for this store type.
In Q2, we also sold a former Coop store in Eslöv, Sweden, where we chose to sell it to the municipality so they can continue to do an urban development of that site. That is another example of the alternative use for our property. The takeaway and conclusion here is in all these countries, we have managed to sell properties at above book values. Oh yes, thank you. Thank you. Yes, just a quick point on the OnePlus joint venture, which you will find in our report as well. This is a very interesting new source of growth for Cibus. This is something that Forum Estates had set up with the developer TS33. What this joint venture is, we own about 31%. It is about five retail properties there. What TS33 does is it builds newly built retail assets or grocery assets.
When the grocery assets are completed, this joint venture has the right of first refusal to purchase these new grocery stores. OnePlus has a strong pipeline of these supermarket opportunities, and it is a potential additional source of growth. It is well governed, and we can say no to yes and no to things, which is great. Now, over to you, Pia-Lena.
Thank you. Looking at the net operating income, it was EUR 36.6 million for the first quarter. Administration costs now include the office in Gent with 12 employees from Forum Estates. We have a non-recurring income item of EUR +20.5 million, which comprises the negative goodwill which arose in connection with the acquisition of Forum Estates since the acquisition was made at a discount to the net assets.
Net financial items include an exchange rate change of EUR -0.9 million, mainly due to the stronger SEK. Profit for property management, excluding non-recurring items and exchange rate differences, was EUR 18.4 million. We sold two properties in Finland, which gave a realized change in investment properties of EUR +2.4 million. We had somewhat increased underlying property value in all countries except Finland, as Christian mentioned, where we had negative unrealized changes, mainly due to two properties where Kesko had announced notice of future termination. Earnings for the quarter was EUR 31 million or EUR 0.42 per share. Earnings capacity, the first of, sorry, the earnings capacity the 1st of April 2025 shows a net operating income of EUR 156.3 million, which is an increase of 37% since the 1st of April 2024.
Profit from property management minus the expense for the hybrid bond and adding back non-cash items amounted to EUR 79.2 million or EUR 1.4 per share, which is an increase of 8% since the 1st of April 2024. After the period, as we announced the 17th of April, we announced the outcome of the refinancing of bank loans of EUR 232.5 million at reduced credit margins by more than 0.5 percentage points. Since the earnings capacity is a snapshot the 1st of April, the lower financing costs are not included in the earnings capacity. Looking at the net operating income, the effect of changes in occupancy was fairly unchanged since Q4 at - 2%. Indexation increased NOI with + 1.9%. It is the acquisition that is mainly driving growth. Cibus segments is countries, and we now have seven countries.
Belgium, Netherlands, and Luxembourg is part of the group since the 27th of January this year. So their part of the NOI will be higher in the second quarter. Of property value, Finland has 47%, Denmark 17%, and Belgium is the third largest with 16%. Looking at the balance sheet at the end of the first quarter, property value was EUR 2.4 billion, secured debt EUR 1.2 billion, giving a loan-to-value on secured debt of 50.6%.
Unsecured ones was EUR 247, no, EUR 245 million, giving a net loan-to-value of 58.7%. Net asset value after NRV was EUR 965 million or EUR 12.6 per share, which is an increase of 8% since the last quarter. The weighted average remaining lease time is shown in the graph on the top, both without Belgian termination rights, which then is a vote of 5.8 years, or with Belgian termination rights, which then is 4.2 years.
In Belgium, as Christian said, the tenants of retail properties have the right to terminate the lease every third year. To minimize that risk, this is usually offset by that the tenants invest significantly in the premises and thus want to stay. Looking at funding, as you can see, bank financing is still the largest part of Cibus external funding with 81%. As we said, we have done refinancing after the period at much lower margins. We have senior unsecured bonds. That is 16% of our financing. On the 10th of January this year, we did a new bond of EUR 50 million, which was issued with a four-year tenor at a margin of 250 basis points over Euribor . For Cibus, stable cash flows is very important, and Cibus continues to have a high degree of hedging with 97% of our loans hedged.
Based on the earnings capacity and taking all the interest rate hedging in consideration, an increase of the market interest rate with one percentage point would affect profit with EUR -1.5 million annually. A decrease of one percentage point of market rates would affect profit with EUR +2.7 million. Why an interest rate reduction has a greater impact is due to that we have interest rate caps, which is about 42% of the hedging on loans. Looking at the key metrics, net LTV was 58.7%. Since the funds raised through the director share user has been deployed, it is slightly higher than before, and also that we have the new bond. The covenant in the MTN programme is 70% net LTV, so good headroom to that. Interest rate coverage ratio was 2.3 x and also well above the covenant of 1.5 x.
The net debt to EBITDA increased in the quarter due to that we've done the acquisitions, which has increased the debt while the EBITDA is built over time. If you use the earnings capacity, the forward-looking net debt EBITDA is 10 x. Cibus generates stable cash flows so we can pay out the dividend to our shareholders on a monthly basis. This year, we have a five-year anniversary of paying out monthly dividend. At the AGM, they decided on an unchanged dividend of EUR 0.90 per share, paid out in 12 installments. The dividend yield on the share price at the end of the quarter was 6.9%. Looking at the share price performance, the share price at the end of the quarter was SEK 148.05 per share.
Cibus is a very liquid share with more than twice the average than other real estate companies with a market cap of SEK 10 billion at Nasdaq Stockholm. I'm not having an easy with the computer and the jumping. Just a good snapshot of our shareholders, which we are very proud of, and they've been with us for a very long time. We're also happy that we have 55,000 shareholders. Over to you, Christian.
Thank you. Thank you. Speaking a bit about the future, let's jump and talk about our common future on this globe, ESG. What we try and do is we want to provide sustainable marketplaces. ESG is an important factor for real estate. I mean, real estate in general is one of the, one of our heating of real estate is an important contributor to global greenhouse gases, of course.
Cibus has a path to climate neutrality 2030 to become climate neutral. We have reported in our annual report for 2024, we voluntarily reported under the CSRD reporting directive. Among other things, we can show there that 49% of our assets are taxonomy aligned, which is up from 31%. This is, by the way, at the end of the year. These are figures from the Q4 figures. What's interesting as well is that we have 79, almost 80% of our tenants have their own SBTi goals, which is what we've been talking about before, is that our tenants are consumer-facing companies, grocery tenants with large aspirations within ESG in themselves. That feels great. Of course, returns are the most important thing for us. Let's not forget that. If we can do some good along the way, that's great.
When it comes to the financing, we, of course, have our green and sustainable financing framework in place. I think what is worth listing here as well is the S in ESG. These assets and the supermarkets and supermarket chains, they are a part of social infrastructure in our societies. An important part of this resilient society is feeding a population. People need to eat in pandemics and people in times of crises. As I wrote in the CEO comments, I think a perfect example of this is what we see in Finland, where the Finnish government and the grocery chains have launched an initiative to make 300 grocery stores across the country into self-sufficient distribution points for grocery, even if there is no electricity.
The government and the chains are cooperating in making sure that these sites and these stores continue to operate even if there's power shortage, even if it's times of crisis, and a place where you can meet, get information, and also charge your mobile phones, etc. Very interesting initiative there in Finland, which kind of, I think, proves the point that this is an important part of infrastructure. Also, mental health, a place to meet for many people, the supermarket is the place to meet if you live alone, slow cashiering we've talked about before. Important for us, and what we can add to this is to see what we can do to create safe and accessible marketplaces for everybody. When it comes to what we're looking at moving forward, I think these are the main six areas.
We want to continue to grow earnings capacity per share in all parts of the business. We grow the earnings capacity, as you've seen, both through acquisitions and through organic growth through indexation and cost control, etc. It is all about creating that earnings capacity per share. Continue to work with and further integrate our platform for growth in the Benelux, the Forum Estates platform. We will continue to work with balance sheet optimization, refinancing, and hedging. Very important, of course, now with what we're seeing of the turmoil and volatility in the financial markets. We want to continue to create these stable cash flows and deliver to our shareholders. We want to look at cash earnings per share accretive transactions. We see interesting opportunities in our seven existing markets, and we're actively evaluating other opportunities and other markets in Europe. I'm proud of the team. Working very hard.
We're a small team. We used to be 12 people. We are now 24 with the Benelux team. A small but diligent and forward-leaning team, which I'm very proud of what we're doing. I'm very happy to see that we've carried out these transactions earlier this year with our Benelux team and the strong Nordic teams continue to deliver as well. Lastly, but definitely not least, we're committed to deliver shareholder value by continuing to convert food into yield. That's just a commercial break, that's fine. Let's move to the Q&A.
If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Oscar Lindquist from ABG Sundal Collier. Please go ahead.
Hi, good morning. A couple of questions from me. If we start on the transactions announced last week, are there any more sort of non-core assets that you would like to divest from the Forum Estates portfolio?
Yes, there are a number of assets. They had slightly less grocery converting food into yield assets than we do, that we as in Cibus Nordic. Yes, there are a couple of more assets we're looking into how we should treat them going forward. I mean, they're strong cash flowing assets and with strong tenants, just not kind of non-strategic for us as we like to convert food into yield, but there's nothing wrong with them and they're cash flow producing. The price needs to be right for us.
Could you give an indication of the volume here?
No, not really. You'll hear about it when it happens, then when it happens.
Yeah, yeah. Sure, sure. Also, on the transactions that you announced, could you give a sort of net impact on rental income? We're not giving that figure. On the divestments and the acquisitions?
No, we're not giving that figure. So far, they're minor acquisitions, of course, two acquisitions of two stores. Kind of small impact so far from acquisitions this year.
Okay. I'm correct in assuming that these transactions are not reflected in the earnings capacity, right?
Yes, the Jumbo asset in Beringen is because we closed that during Q1. The earnings capacity is forward-looking from 1st of April.
Okay. On acquisitions, can you give any insights here on where you're looking, what markets look the most interesting, and do you have any ongoing discussions?
No, I think we're looking at, I think the strength that Cibus has being in seven countries and being able to look at more countries is that we are investigating where we can find the best return for our shareholders. As communicated previously, what we're looking for is stable grocery markets, I mean, stable in that the tenants are performing well, there's dynamics among the tenants which works well. We're also looking for kind of stable economies and stable real estate guidelines and rules and zoning plans, etc. We don't necessarily, as many other investors maybe need to look at, so stable real estate markets. I mean, we're a buy-and-hold player. Many other investors are kind of need to time things, time buying and selling.
As we're a buy-and-hold player, we feel we can look a bit more freely then as long as the dynamics are right and the assets bought are cash earnings per share created from day one.
Okay. And then finally on refinancing, you refinanced 20% approximately of your bank debt now in April. And the margin on average was down 50 basis points. How would you say that this translates to the remainder of your bank debt? Do you have the same potential here?
I mean, we do have good dialogue with the banks and they are continuing to give us support. I want to have more volume. I want to do more business with Cibus. Yes, it's looking good, but we will come back with the refinance we do also going forward. We have positive dialogue with the banks.
Okay. One final question on the new JV OnePlus. Could you give any indication of should we expect to see some material contributions in the near term or how's the pipeline looking here?
I wouldn't say material contributions. It's a pretty small joint venture. It holds five assets right now. The developer is not a huge developer, but they have very good relations with the grocers. It is more of a future potential pipeline of new assets. We want to lift it forward also because it is an interesting fountain of new potential growth. I'm happy to look into to see if there's more opportunities like that out there in the markets.
Sure. Thank you. That's all from me.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Viktor Hökenhammar from Pareto Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi Christian, I'm Pia-Lena. Thanks for a great presentation. Starting with the occupancy rate now above 95%. How does that compare between Nordic and continental European portfolios of yours?
Yeah, I can take that. Yeah, we had higher occupation rate in the Foru m Estates deal, which is contributing to the higher occupation rate that we have in the quarter. Otherwise, it's quite stable in the Nordics and the other parts also, but the increase in occupation was due to the Forum Estates deal.
A comment on the Nordic side of things is, I mean, it's business as usual. We extend leases with grocery players. We've let some of non-grocery space as and when there are some vacancies. But as Pia-Lena mentioned, it's a stable quarter as expected.
Sounds good. And then just a final question on refinancing of bank loans as mentioned. What is the average secured credit margin now after last week's announcement?
I mean, we haven't commented on that, unfortunately, so I cannot do it on this call. Of course, it will have an effect, which we will disclose in the Q2 report.
Okay. Perfect. That was all. Thank you.
Thank you, Viktor.
The next question comes from Svante Krokfors from Nordea. Please go ahead.
Good morning, Svante from Nordea. Thank you, Christian and Pia-Lena, for the presentation. Actually, most of my questions have already been answered, but a couple of them left. Perhaps first on you have now been integrating Forum Estates for some months. Is there any negative or for that matter, positive surprises that you have encountered or has everything been as planned?
Everything has been as planned. I mean, we did a very extensive due diligence during 2024. I'm very happy that the figures, of course, not surprising to us, but now we can present that the figures really match up to what we've said. I think a positive surprise, or surprise, I'm happy to see that we've managed to do these transactions so fast and really hit the ground running together in selling these non-strategic assets and also buying one asset in Belgium.
Thank you. A question a bit touching an earlier question here, but I mean, you now have authority to issue 20% new shares that would enable around EUR 500 million in acquisitions. Would you look at completely new markets or would you primarily use the base that you have in Forum Estates?
I would say both. I would say if and when we find the right cash earnings per share accretive opportunities, then as long as it meets the criteria mentioned earlier about new markets, then we would be happy to enter a new market. I think the Forum Estates acquisition and also the large Danish acquisitions we did kind of prove the point that we are able to do so. Of course, a company should grow in kind of a steady flow if possible. I feel that we've managed to integrate Forum Estates, that's worked very well. If the opportunities arise, then we're happy to look at other things as well.
Thank you. Perhaps a final one. Do you have any comments on changes in the transaction market in your operating countries recently, or is it similar as it was three months ago?
No, that's a good question. Thanks. I forgot to touch upon that in the presentation. Summarizing, Sweden, very hot. Lots of institutional and private investors chasing grocery assets. Retail parks with grocery in it. We mostly only want the grocery, not the other things, the building materials or the gardening or the sporting goods. There is a lot of investors, both institutional and also private individuals, both private equity and also more kind of syndicates looking at these assets in Sweden. We see the same thing in Denmark, very active market. The Netherlands is a very active market when it comes to real estate transactions in general and for our segments with various types of pooled capital buying a number of these grocery assets. I would say most of the transactions happened, of course, before all the major turmoil in the markets from after the 2nd of April.
In general, lots of interest for supermarkets. In my view, supermarkets are and should be one of the most resilient sectors when it comes to the trade wars and other things happening because they are high yielding, they are stable tenants, everyone needs to eat and buy food. They are small liquid assets or can be small, at least the ones we target. It should be a very interesting property segment for many going forward.
Okay, thank you. That is all from me.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Vinci Elia from Kempen. Please go ahead.
Hi, good morning, Christian and Pia-Lena. Hope you had a wonderful Christmas break. A couple of questions for me. First one, of course, I appreciate that you are selling non-core assets and vacant assets, but would you consider selling some more core assets as long as you can sell them at a premium?
The price is always of interest for us. We are a buy-and-hold player. We enjoy the cash flow and the stability of those cash flows. Yeah, go ahead and make us an offer and we'll see how we react. All right. A bit more concretely, I think we're on a trajectory where we're creating a more diversified portfolio. We're becoming a larger company. There are certain economies of scale, both in diversification and also becoming slightly larger. It would have to be something significant of interest for us to divest some of our core assets. I think one should expect us more to look at kind of continuing to divest non-core assets and investing into more core assets.
All right. On the Kesko assets, on the notice of termination, is this something linked more specifically to Kesko or is it just a coincidence? I'm asking, does Tesco want to be the owner of its assets or is it more a similar story that they can just plan to build or they can build a store nearby?
I think that there's no, in my view, there's no cross-read that this happens to be Kesko. This is a normal course of business for a grocer. I was seven years at ICA Real Estate, as you know. Sometimes you close a store because you want a bigger store. Sometimes there's some new infrastructure in a town, a new roundabout, which is a slightly better retail location for what you're planning as a grocer in that specific location. Perhaps you move to a demographic location which is closer to your price strategy. If you're a high-end or a low-end, the discounter, maybe demographics change and income changes in the local market.
There is always a bit of movement. I think these are examples of that. They are doing something else in those locations. As mentioned, in the store that Kesko did leave, we could immediately sell it to another grocer for them to open their own store. When it comes to Kesko, they both lease, of course, with us, almost 150 assets. They own some of their assets. They own through the joint venture which they had with AMF and Ilmarinen, which they now have with Ilmarinen and their own association, their retail association. They own and let, just as many grocers do.
All right. Maybe just one more of a clarification question. On the like-for-like, I see that the vacancy impact is - 2%, but then of course, if we look at your vacancy, and I know it's a snapshot and impacted by the Forum Estates acquisition, but then as you mentioned earlier, the Nordic vacancy is more or less stable. One doesn't really match the other. Could you add a bit more color there?
I can elaborate. I mean, both in Q3 and in Q4, that figure was 1.9%, and now it's 2%. It is very, very stable, so to say. It is not a dramatic jump in any way, you can say. Overall, it is stable in the Nordics and on the comparable portfolio, as you can see.
No. In the quarter, not much happened, 0.1 percentage points. Exactly.
This is more from, let's say, Q2 last year.
Yes, exactly. That figure, that's comparing the earnings capacity 1st of January 2025, sorry, 1st of April 2025 with 1st of April 2024. In 2024, we had a number of rental guarantees, for example, in Denmark, which ran out, and thereby create vacancies. Those are the rental guarantees which we knew at some point this would be extremely difficult to let. We knew that already when we purchased that portfolio in Denmark.
Okay. Very clear. Thank you for all the answers.
Thank you.
Great. Thank you.
As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial #5 on your telephone keypad. There are no more phone questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers for any written questions or closing comments.
Yeah, we have no written questions, but we have one question regarding the presentation. This will, of course, be available on the website. Sorry for the echo that Sam has, but you can listen in on the presentation on our website shortly later on today. It will be available.
Great. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. All the best for a continued 2025. Thank you.
Thank you.
Bye.