Welcome to the Clas Ohlson Q3 2023-2024 report presentation. For the first part of the presentation, participants will be in listen-only mode. During the questions-and-answers session, participants are able to ask questions by dialing pound five on their telephone keypad. Now I will hand the conference over to CEO Kristofer Tonström and CFO Pernilla Walfridsson. Please go ahead.
Good morning and welcome to the Clas Ohlson Q3 report presentation. My name is Kristofer Tonström, I'm CEO, and I'm here with Pernilla Walfridsson, CFO. So as always, we'll go through a business update. I'll do that fairly quickly, and then we'll move into the financial development with Pernilla, and then I will cover the events after the reporting period, summarize, and then we'll move into questions and answers. So overall, looking at the third quarter, we continue to execute on the updated plan and strategy that we laid out approximately two years ago. And looking at the results for the quarter, we continue to see solid sales development with organic growth result amounting to +12%. We've also seen the operating profit improving to SEK 422 million.
As in previous quarters, we also see that the prioritized categories, our five consumer missions, continue to be a driver of growth together with relevant product news within those five missions. We have had a high focus and continue to have high focus on efficiency and flexibility. We have executed on our cost-saving programs, and we're becoming faster and faster as an organization. Looking at the cash flow for the first three quarters, it's amounting to almost SEK 1.6 billion versus SEK 947 million last year. Our financial position is very solid with a net debt to EBITDA 0.5, so net cash at hand closing the quarter. Also, the fourth quarter has started well with 19% organic growth in February. We'll go through this a bit more in detail now, so we'll move into the business update.
Starting by recapping a little bit on our objectives, we want to grow 5% organically every year, and we want to deliver 79% operating margin. We also want to be industry-leading in sustainability and work to make our business model more and more sustainable. Looking at the execution of this strategy over this year, we laid out, when we kicked off this year, three main drivers of growth. The first one is making our assortment relevant 12 months a year, and the second one is driving a profitable and growing online business and also expanding the store network after a few years of optimization. Starting with assortment, again, we see that growth is driven across all the five consumer missions. We have also been able to quickly adapt to changing consumer needs, and I'll have a few examples of that.
We also see that our customers are very engaged. We have almost 170,000 product reviews only in this quarter, which is significantly up versus last year. So the engagement in the assortment is high. On the online side, we've grown 19% in Q3, and still we see big operating leverage in terms of working with our online through the physical stores. So still 50% of orders are delivered in one way or the other via the physical store network. And now also consolidating the Spares Group into the Clas numbers in Q3, 17% of total sales now is online. When it comes to the expansion of store network, we have done a lot of hard work over the last year. And so far, we have opened 4 new stores in 2023-2024, and we plan to open another seven in Q4.
We have also rebuilt 10 stores and rebuilt/moved during this year, and it's important for us to continue to improve the store network that we have. We're also announcing today a concrete target for 2024-2025, the year that starts May 1st. Here we have an ambition to also open another 10 new stores during this year, and we have already signed eight new contracts. A big enabler for this growth, these growth drivers, is to continue to be very effective in terms of our marketing. We do see that a majority of spend goes digital, and we also see a lot of organic growth in terms of engagement from customers in our digital channels. We also start seeing an expansion of the younger customer groups into our Club Clas membership program. It's critical to continue to be very cost-conscious.
We have done a lot of changes to have a very competitive cost base and leaner overheads to allow us to invest in growth for the future. We have realized that plan. We have executed on what we laid out to do, and it's critical to continue now all the work driving growth while not expanding our overhead. When it comes to execution on the sustainability agenda, obviously, a key part is making our business model more and more sustainable. But it's also encouraging to see that, as an example, in this quarter, we were recognized as one of the most sustainable companies on the Nasdaq Stock Exchange in Stockholm. We came in as number seven out of 130 companies. Digging a bit deeper into our assortment, we are obviously a product and assortment company. It's the fusion of everything.
As part of the updated plan and strategy a couple of years ago, we laid out a clear focus on five areas that we call our consumer missions. It's critical to be relevant across those five. At the time, we saw growth in, Tidy Up Your Home and Light Up Your Home. What we have seen over the last year is the other categories picking up as well, especially strong growth across, Connect and Enjoy Your Home, with a lot of tech accessories, mobile accessories, etc. Here we deem that we have been growing market shares. We also have a high focus on our spare parts assortment, and now with the addition of the Spares Group, it becomes more and more important, and we see a lot of underlying market demand growing on spare parts.
Also, if you visit the store today versus a couple of years ago, we have also more consumable articles. So the five missions are traffic drivers, and the consumables are more relevant basket fillers. So you can pick up washing liquid, cleaning products, etc., while you're anyway visiting. The third quarter is obviously the biggest quarter for the year, and it includes the important Christmas season. We saw that the market was still fairly challenged, but we were able to deliver a very solid Christmas with November-December sales on very high levels amounting to almost SEK 2.5 billion. Moving into a little bit deep dive on our brand, it's clear that the Clas Ohlson brand strength is significant. We have done a lot of work in terms of our consumer communication.
Now, almost 25% of the population in our three markets are members in our Club Clas membership program, and we have seen growth of 8%, so amounting now to 5.4 million members. It's also encouraging to see that the fastest growing segment is among younger consumers. We see huge organic reach, and you see a couple of examples on the slide where customers themselves share a lot of videos on TikTok, etc., displaying, organizing products, etc. And we were actually awarded as the retailer of the year within TikTok. So a lot of that is driven organically, and we see engagement from younger customers. That's a key thing for us looking longer term as well.
Also, in terms of being quick and flexible with our assortment, we see that when external events happen, we have a good way of adapting, and we are a go-to place for things to help you at home. We have seen, as an example, some extreme weather in Norway over the recent couple of months, and we have been very relevant in terms of giving the customers the right assortment, and that has also generated a lot of media. We saw the same thing in Sweden during January when there was a spike in prepping products, given the media attention around that. And we were very much a go-to place then as well. From a total sales point of view, not super material, but still, it's a sign of the strength of our brand.
Last but not least, when we're announcing our store openings, we do generate a lot of, especially local media attention for every new store that we announce. So again, the brand Clas Ohlson stands strong. Going a bit more into depth then on our expansion of the store network. So here you see the maps of Sweden over Finland. And we have laid out here the stores that already opened in 2023-2024 and also the ones that are planned for 2023-2024. We also want to highlight the fact that we are working with rebuilds to upgrade the store network. And here the focus is not to make the stores nicer. It's really about making the stores more optimal, right square meters, right ability to fill it up with the right assortment, etc. So we are working both with improving current network and then adding.
So looking at the next year, again, we plan to open another 10 or have another 10 net addition during fiscal year 2024-2025. And we want to do this in a very controlled way. We go for quality rather than quantity. And it's critical for us that each new store that we add become profitable within the first year and that it really drives and adds profitability to the full group and also without adding any overhead. As you can see, it's also the highest focus is within Sweden and Norway when it comes to expansion, but we're also making a few changes within Finland. Then turning a bit to the Spares Group. So we announced back in November, or we announced it back in September, but the acquisition closed in November of Clas Ohlson acquiring the Spares Group consisting of four different parts.
So Teknikdelar and Batteriexperten, business-to-consumer brands, and then two business-to-business parts, Spares and ZandParts. Now it's the first quarter where Spares is integrated and included in the Clas Ohlson numbers, and it's developing according to plan. We see a very strong underlying trend. Just as a recent example, we see the Right to Repair Act being approved now by the EU. So we expect continuous market demand for spare parts. And there's a lot of work in progress now to drive joint value creation between the two companies. We do have one segment reporting, and we have integrated, consolidated Spares into Clas Ohlson as of the third quarter. The purchase price was SEK 431 million for 91.4% of the shares, i.e., the founders and management team reinvested and is staying on. And we do not expect any further payments on this purchase price at this time.
Then the final point, we do see that the consumer sentiment, the consumer confidence is slightly improving across Sweden. We're still below historical levels, but it's improving in Sweden, and it's softer in Norway and Finland. It's critical for us to remain our strong value equation versus customers. We measure this on a going basis. For us, it's about having high-quality products at attractive prices. It's not about always having the lowest, lowest price point because then you risk jeopardizing the quality. Our customers expect us to deliver value, which is right price, right quality. As you can see in the graph at the middle, we do stand out as delivering value even when we compare ourselves to discounters and low-price players. Together with this, our customer service is critical.
And again, this quarter, we see an NPS level of 55 despite the strong growth and many more customers coming into Clas Ohlson. We're maintaining a very high customer service. So huge credit to everybody facing and meeting our customers every day in our stores across customer service and on e-com. So that summarizes the business update, and I'll then hand over to Pernilla to take us through the financial development.
Thank you, Kristofer. Good morning, everyone. Let me give you some details on the financials of Q3 and the first nine months of this financial year. Q3 is, as you know, our biggest and most important quarter. We have maintained a positive momentum from the first six months and increased sales by 9% excluding the Spares Group. The organic sales increase was 12%. Like-for-like sales, meaning sales in comparable stores, was up 12%.
Online sales, excluding Spares, was up 19%. As previously reported, this is the first quarter when the acquired Spares Group is consolidated into Clas Ohlson's figure. This means that we do not have comparables for Spares yet, and this is the reason why we have decided to report sales both including and excluding Spares for the time being. Total sales including Spares was SEK 3.4 billion in the quarter. As you can see, the inclusion of Spares also means a big leap in total online sales amounting to SEK 589 million in the quarter. For the nine-month period, we had an organic sales increase of 10% compared to last year, which is well above a growth target of 5% organic growth. When it comes to different markets, we have solid total sales growth in all markets in Q3.
As you can see, organic growth has been particularly strong in our biggest markets, Sweden and Norway. As always, I would like to briefly remind you of some of the macro factors impacting our business. There's been quite a lot of focus on the situation in the Red Sea lately, and as you can see, spot prices for container freight have increased in the past month. However, we see positive indications in terms of stabilizing and somewhat decreasing prices and do not view this as something that will have the same kind of impact as the bottleneck effect during the pandemic. It is, of course, impacting us, and we will continue monitoring the situation closely. But for now, we believe that costs and the attendant delay from rerouting ships are manageable.
When it comes to currencies, we continue to be impacted by the strong U.S. dollar versus the Swedish krona and now also the weaker Norwegian krone as we have a large share of our total sales in Norwegian currency. The currency effect is something you see clearly impacting our gross margin. Although we have had positive effects in the quarter from our hedging, the weaker Swedish krona and weaker Norwegian krone has by far offset those gains. Cost for sourcing and transportation is continuing to be factors than our gross margin.
As we have communicated before, the fact that consumers have responded more on campaigns and offerings has had a big impact on profitability in the quarter. I might add that we have not been more aggressive on campaigns in the quarter. It is rather the more and more price-sensitive customer who has chosen to buy more once they have found a good.
In summary, we reached a slightly higher gross margin than last year at 38.4% compared to 38.2%. Summarizing our income statement, we have improved operating profit substantially. The operating profit almost doubled to SEK 422 million. Last year's Q3 was, of course, heavily impacted by non-recurring items. But also looking at operating profit excluding items affecting comparability, profits are significantly up, SEK 425 million compared to SEK 334 million. Share of selling expenses decreased by 1.2% to 24.5%, mainly thanks to increased sales and previously communicated cost savings. Admin expenses were more or less flat. For the first nine months of the year, operating profit landed at SEK 651 million including one-offs. We have a good and well-balanced inventory. The total inventory level is up compared to last year, but now. Including inventory in Spares group.
Cash flow for the first nine months of the year symbolizing one of our key strengths. Cash flow from operating activities totaled SEK 1,597 million compared to SEK 947 million last year. Bear in mind that the cash flow was affected by the acquisition of Spares, but also an even greater effect on lower dividend this year compared to last year. Looking at net debt to EBITDA excluding IFRS 16, we can conclude that we have a net cash position at end of Q3. I then hand over to Kristofer again.
Thank you, Pernilla. So quickly looking at the February numbers before moving into Q&A. So February, we saw continued solid organic sales development adding up to total in total 19% and 19% like-for-like. And this was broad-based, 18% in Sweden, 22% in Norway, and 14% in Finland.
We have continuously also seen our online business growing 20% if we exclude Spares. And you also see the numbers including Spares here on the slide. Looking at February specifically, the store network was unchanged compared to end of February last year. So we haven't yet started to see the effects of the store openings. So to quickly conclude then, so as I said initially, we continue to execute on the strategic plan that we laid out two years ago. We know that the market continues to be challenging, yet some improvements in consumer confidence in Sweden, but there's still uncertainty around consumer spending. So for us, it's critical to maintain relevance when it comes to assortment. We need to do everything to deliver value for money. And also, of course, to continue to be flexible given how fast the demand changes across lots of different product categories.
We also do a lot of work to develop the sales channels to continue to drive growth and to deliver the 5% organic growth also next year. Here, the store expansion is critical, and we laid that out. Also to continue growing our online sales and get the effect of both those together. As said before, we need to continue we want to continue to be very cost-focused and keep a lean overhead because that gives us the ability to also invest in the future. With that, let's move into Q&A.
If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Niklas Ekman from Carnegie. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Yes. Can I start with a question on the top line and this organic growth here of 12% in Q3? That's one of the strongest organic growth figures you've ever reported, I think. Can you tell us a little bit more, just elaborate a bit more on what are the key growth drivers here? How much of this is driven by inflation? You mentioned prepping here, but you're kind of downplaying that effect. You're talking about consumables. And as a follow-up, I guess, to that also, how confident are you that you can reach more than 5% growth next year considering that you're now facing very, very tough comparisons?
Yeah. So good morning, Niklas. So overall, the organic growth is very much driven by, number one, assortment. If I look across the five big areas, we have seen the fastest growth across what we call the Connect and Enjoy Your Home, which is very much mobile accessories, tech accessories, etc. But also products within gaming, etc. So we have added a lot of products there, and we have seen fast growth.
Also, Fix Your Home, which historically was a bit of a lower priority. We have done a lot of work to upgrade that assortment as well. So we've also seen growth there. But still, the biggest and also a big growing mission is Tidy Up Your Home. So everything that has to do with organizing, etc. So assortment is a big driver. A big part of the organic sales growth comes from new articles. And also, we do see fairly significant volume growth in this quarter.
As you know, we do not report volume and value, but with those numbers, it's clearly volume-driven as well. As you know, we have done a lot of work on pricing over the last year, and we haven't structurally taken down any prices in terms of the black prices. We continue to work smartly. Of course, there's a bit of a price effect in the growth as well. Turning then to next year, as you say, of course, our objective is to grow 5% organically every year. Now, the base is much higher as we move into next year. So we do not expect these growth levels to continue when we start moving into May, June, and July. Our ambition is clearly to deliver the 5% organic growth also for next year.
As I mentioned earlier, obviously, the growth we see today is with more or less an unchanged store network. It's critical for us to execute well on the store expansion plan to be a driver of the 5% also next year. That's going to be a new thing. Meanwhile, of course, we're going to continue to work on assortment also in the coming years. That's in short.
Very good. Thanks. A quick follow-up there. When you talk about 10 new stores for 2024/2025, is that a net number, or do you think there will be one or two store closures on top of that, or withdrawn from that?
That's a net number. We are also most likely going to close a few stores as well. We're expecting a net increase of 10.
Very clear. Can I ask about your margin target as well here? 7%-9%. I think in the last 12 months here, you are at 8.6%. So you're in the very upper end of that range. Is this, you think, a conservative target that you have now, or are you at exceptionally high levels at the moment? What's your view on that?
Obviously, these targets are laid out to be delivered on the longer term. I do believe that 5% organic top line and 7%-9% bottom line is a very good balance. Then, of course, there will be slight variations within that range yearly. But I think it is a fairly good and fair balance. Yeah, so that's how we view it.
But do you see imminently any risks of that margin trending lower?
Now, again, it's between the 7%-9%. So I don't want to guide more specifically for next year given that the year hasn't started yet. And of course, there are lots of variables that need to work out. So between 7%-9% without guiding specifically if it's going to be upper or lower range.
Okay. Fair enough. And just a detail here as well on Spares. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they had annual sales of SEK 820 million. And if we look at the first four months of being consolidated now, they've added less than SEK 230 million. That seems to be quite a bit below the run rate. Is there any significant seasonality here that we should be aware of, or have you seen a decline in Spares since that business was acquired?
In general, the seasonality is much less than for Clas Ohlson. And then also, approximately 1/2 of the business is business to business, and 1/2 is business to consumer. We see a very good development on business to consumer. And then business to business is a bit more volatile because the underlying demand is high, but it's also driven a lot by the availability of products, and that can vary. But we are happy with the overall trend. But of course, we want to continue driving this together with us forward.
We can also add that we have harmonized accounting principles, meaning that freight revenue is excluded from Spares net sales. So that is also a change when we consolidate the Spares into Clas Ohlson.
Okay. How big an impact was that approximately?
Approximately SEK 40 million, something like that.
Okay. Okay. Super, super clear. Thank you for taking my questions.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Magnus Råman from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Thank you. I'd like to come back to the sales of next year first. Since you were guiding for this next store expansion, you will have a contribution from the store expansion in 2024/2025 of 4% or 5%. Then it comes down to, with these tougher comparisons, if you think that you will not be able to deliver flat or positive like-for-like growth, or if you think you will so, because in that sense, you already have this contribution from the store expansion. So my question essentially is, what type of price situation do you see in front of you for the coming fiscal year? Is it going to be so tough that you might not even be able to deliver any price increases and thereby have a hard time delivering positive like-for-like, or should there actually be room for additional price increases?
Now, so on the total, you're right. Of course, a big part of the growth will come from the new stores. At the same time, of course, we are humble about the fact that we haven't done store expansion in a long time. So it's critical for us to ensure the execution of the openings at this amount is successful. So obviously, if everything plays out well, it's going to add approximately what you're mentioning here. Then, of course, our ambition is always to continue to drive like-like as well. But I think that's why it gives us confidence that we have the activities lined up to drive 5% next year. But of course, the store expansion is a bit of a new activity versus the previous five years. Turning to price, I mean, we are working actively with price on a going basis.
Our expectation is that the overall inflation level across all categories will be slightly softer next year. But we're going to continue to work smartly with price. And we are not planning for drastically taking down prices. But of course, there are a lot of variables coming into play here with what happens with currencies, etc. But we're going to continue working smartly on pricing as well. But we expect overall inflation levels to be slightly lower than it has been in the last two years.
Great. Then on the gross margin, you showed that you usually do the drivers there in the waterfall chart. And I mean, in terms of are you having impacted by adverse FX effects, and those should at some point annualize and possibly also be reversed in terms of the underlying actual FX rates?
But the other factor here with the sales mix that you described, how customers have altered their sort of preferences to cheaper items in the recent period of weakness. You have also had a sales mix change that's sort of deliberately or more structurally implemented by yourself. So what I'm trying to get to here is, if we would assume a normalization of sort of customer behavior, do you see that this negative effect on the gross margin from sales mix would reverse completely, or will there be a sort of remaining structural negative effect from your permanent mixture?
Yeah. I think it's going to be driven a bit by the consumer sentiment. I think given the volume growth we have seen in the last quarter, and as Pernilla mentioned, it's not that we have been more aggressive on campaigns. Actually, the contrary.
So it's more that the volumes sold on deals have been higher during this quarter. So of course, consumer sentiment could have a factor here to make that a bit less. I think the other thing that is fair to say that we mentioned in the report and also in the previous two sales reports is that given the pace of new product launches, we have also deliberately sold out some older products. It's not that we've had any stock issues, but it's more that we want to keep a very active and relevant assortment and ensure that we maximize stock turnover of the SKUs that we have. So we want to make room for new SKUs, and thereby we have also sold out a few products during this high-sales period. So that one will be we have continued with. It's a smaller part.
The biggest part is the sales mix, as you referred to. So we're going to continue to be very careful and work structurally with our pricing together with campaigns. And again, it's going to be a little bit driven on how the consumers react to that and where the volumes fall.
All right. Thanks. And also a follow-up on this freight revenue recognition that you mentioned for Spares. This SEK 40 million, for what period was that? And also, where does this revenue show up? Where is it accounted for instead?
This was an approximately for one year. And we netted it against the freight cost on OpEx.
So then it has a result a margin-enhancing effect instead?
It affects the OpEx instead of the yeah, the OpEx row. Yeah.
Right. Okay. And then just the final one for me relates more to the overall sort of balance sheet of the sort of net cash position that you retain now. You mentioned here that it was partly an effect of the lower dividend. How do you think we should view, I mean, if you look forward, do you see any need for material strategic investment needs or opportunities, or might there actually be room for an extraordinary distribution to shareholders given the cut in dividend last year?
I mean, obviously, we are now investing more in store expansion, which we haven't done before. So that's obviously one part. And then when it comes to the dividend question, we'll come back on that as part of the Q4. But obviously, we are and we have done the Spares acquisition, etc.
So obviously, we are trying to allocate capital in an efficient way to also build for the future. But we'll come back on the dividend question.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Andreas Lundberg from SEB. Please go ahead.
Thank you and good morning. Most of my questions have an answer, though. But what about OpEx on a comparable basis? If you slip out the spare part, how has that developed during the third quarter? And how do you view that outlook for the next fiscal year? Thank you.
So overall, we were fairly flat on one part and a bit down on the other. And obviously, we see cost inflation this year with rent increases, salary increases, etc.
So we believe that all the mitigating factors we executed on with the SEK 210 million is helping us mitigate that. So we're expecting a bit similar also moving forward and trying to the objective is to, of course, add initiatives like new stores without expanding costs, keeping overhead flat. But overall, that's what I would say the guidance is.
So nothing changed there versus previous quarters, basically?
No.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Nicklas Skogman from Handelsbanken. Please go ahead.
Yes. Good morning, everyone. I have a couple of questions. I'll ask the OpEx question another way. How much of the OpEx increase was due to Spares in million Swedish krona, please?
Let's see. So I think we haven't written that out, but it's obviously approximately let us check, Nicklas, and we'll take your other question first.
All right. Good. So in Q2, you had a positive impact from product and price mix, and now you had a negative impact from sales mix, I guess you call it. Is the reason that you have these clearances of old products, or has the consumer behavior changed in Q3 compared to Q2?
It's more that the volume growth on products on campaign were higher in Q3 than Q2. And so that was the biggest driver. And then, of course, also the sellout of older products was in parallel. But I think the overall sales and overall volumes were higher. And it's obviously a much bigger quarter, and also the organic growth was higher. So that's the key thing, the volumes that customers bought.
Okay. And now after February, do you still have a need to clear the older inventory to make room for the new products, or are you through with this?
I mean, I think we're going to work with it smartly a bit on a going basis to ensure that we always optimize the assortment. We have done a little bit of that also in February, but we don't want to do this in big swings. It's more about keeping the assortment relevant. And given the amount of new products we have launched, of course, we had a bit more of a need now in the recent quarters. But over time, we do not expect that to be a significant factor.
Okay. Good stuff. And if you would please give us an outlook for the currency effects now here in Q4, the dollar and the Norwegian krone, as it looks right now, what's the situation on the gross margin?
So I think maybe to keep it simple, if you look at the net effect of the transportation and the currency effects, we believe that the net effect will be slightly positive moving into the next quarter. And then, Pernilla, I don't know if you have any specific on the currency expectations now in Q4. But the net effect of those two, we believe, will be slightly positive in Q4.
Okay. Very good. And have you had the time now to look at the Spares OpEx?
Yeah. I can't give you the absolute numbers. But if you look at administrative expenses, we have a small effect on Spares. So if you bear in mind that last year, we have a one-off effect related to headcount reduction of approximately SEK 5 million, then I think you can see approximately that.
If you look at the selling expenses, the Spares administrative expenses is slightly higher as a percentage of sales. If you look at administrative expenses, they are slightly higher. Looking at the selling expenses, you see that there is a small effect from Spares. I don't know if that will help you. I will get back numbers, but.
Might need to get back to you on that one. All right. Thanks for answering the questions.
Thanks, Niklas. Let's see.
There are no more questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers for any written questions or closing comments.
Yes. We do have one written question from Øystein Engh from Watch Media in Norway. It relates to the reason why you think Norway has the lowest consumer confidence right now. Yeah. Good morning, Øystein.
So, I think it's hard for me to give a good answer given that these numbers are consumer confidence is for the overall Norwegian market. But if I look at our customers in Norway, if I compare the current period versus previous periods, we do feel that the customers have been more impacted by the macro environment than in maybe previous financial downturns. So, of course, with the inflation levels, also the weaker Norwegian krone, the high interest rates, at least that's what we get from our customers, that the individual households have been more impacted this time around if we compare to previous years when there's been a challenging macro environment. So, I think that's what we get from our customers. But I think I'm not the right person to answer it on total Norwegian consumer confidence level. Okay.
We seem to have no further questions on neither the webcast or the telephone conference. So thank you very much, everybody, for calling in. And we will continue to execute on our plan and do everything to deliver a close end to this year and then to kick off the next year. So we'll see each other back when we report Q4. Thank you.