Ferronordic AB (publ) (STO:FNM)
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Earnings Call: Q2 2023

Aug 17, 2023

Operator

Welcome to the Ferronordic Q2 Presentation for 2023. During the questions and answer session, participants are able to ask questions by dialing star five on their telephone keypad. I will hand the conference over to the CEO, Lars Corneliusson, and CFO, Erik Danemar. Please begin your meeting.

Lars Corneliusson
CEO, Ferronordic

Good morning, everybody. This is Lars Corneliusson speaking. Very welcome to this presentation of our second quarter 2023. If we move to the first slide, I would say, we call the report Continued Focus Forward. We saw on the group level good revenue increase with 68%. We saw strong growth in revenue on both operating segments. Operating results improved from SEK 10 million minus last year to, improved to 10 million Swedish krona, minus an operating margin to -1.5%. Obviously, as we've been talking about before, we continue to look for new market opportunities.

In Germany, new truck sales and units increased by 33%, which was in line with the market that actually now starts to see a better supply situation than the previous three years. The market then recovered and grew, approximately, by 30%. We saw a positive operating result in Germany of SEK 2 million, and we continue our investments into sustainable transport solutions. In CIS, the growth was even bigger, and new equipment sales increased by 183% in units, and we had a good product mix. Then revenue increased to 200%, and operating profit 180% to SEK 7 million. In Kazakhstan, we're exploring opportunities to offer contracting services.

All in all, 68% revenue growth, 65% operating profit growth, - 1.5% operating margin, and earnings per share increased by 166%. If we take the next slide, please. Obviously, we're focusing on Germany, Kazakhstan, and on our next growth opportunities. In Germany, we continue to increase sales of both trucks and aftermarket, and had our second quarter now with a positive operating result. We continue to work closely with partners and clients to further promote sustainable transport solution. In the quarter, we delivered five electric trucks to, to customers, and we launched our first charging infrastructure project at the customer location together with a partner.

Importantly, we were awarded by the German government subsidies of up to EUR 23 million for up to 117 electric trucks. This is, of course, important for the future potential of this area, and we're very happy about that, and we will make sure that we use them in the best way possible. In Kazakhstan, as I said, sales of both new and used equipment increased sharply, still on a low level, but the increase is good to see. We're starting to get traction with our way to go to customers, working with full setup with good service, with parts supply that is better than others, and we are increasing nicely in Kazakhstan.

We, we see good opportunities to, to further grow and increase our business in Kazakhstan. We're also, as, as we talked about, closely customers and partner working with to, to develop our customer offering, and, and hopefully then, we will be able to offer, for instance, contracting services in Kazakhstan. We go to the next slide, please. Yeah, quick summary financials, revenue up 68% to SEK 674 million. German revenue up 58%, where we actually saw also truck sales up 1%, but also good aftermarket sales growth of 30%. In CIS, as we talked about, 200% growth to SEK 80 million.

And thanks to a good mix of, of the equipment that we sold, we saw revenue up 400% on, on equipment, and off the market, sales up 17%. Group operating profit increased to, to a loss of SEK 10 million, and we still have a very strong balance sheet that provides options. We have 62% equity to total assets, and a net cash at SEK 539 million. Okay, if we take the next slide, please. As we talked about, the total German market for heavy trucks increased in the quarter by 30%. Tractors grew more, 42% and rigids by 13%. Again, the market grew mainly as supply improved to meet a pent-up demand that is still there, for sure.

It's good to see that supply actually now, finally, is improving and allowing the market to absorb the demand that is still there. In our sales area, the market increased by 27%, our sales area then represents 18% of the total German market. Our new truck sales and units increased by 33% to 267. If we include LCVs, the increase was actually 42%. As for used vehicles, it also had a good growth. We grew 134% in units and sold 89 units, pricing is tighter as great supply exerted pressure on margins.

This is quite logical when, when supply of new trucks is, is improving that, that the used market becomes a bit more pressurized when it comes to pricing, because there are more used vehicles out there in the market. We saw good, good growth in the aftermarket by 30%, which of course, is an, a combination of organic growth and, and the acquisitions we made the last year. We saw also a good increase in the gross margin to 12.3%. This is on product mix and also price realization. We take the next slide, please. In the CIS, this is basically Kazakhstan.

The Kazakh market obviously is supported by Kazakhstan's growing role as a regional hub, big infrastructure projects and strong commodity prices, also becoming a hub for many of the things that previously were transported through a bigger country to the north. It goes through Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan and further, further west from China to Europe nowadays, we've seen increased activity totally in the markets, I would say. However, excluding Chinese wheel loaders that had a big drop in the quarter with the Kazakh market for construction equipment declined by 8% in Q2. However, the market for road construction equipment almost increased 3x in the quarter.

That's, of course, where, where our sweet spot, is one of our sweet spots for, for sales is in the road construction, market. Our sales then increased 183%. Now, we're, we're talking about 17 units, which of course, is a very low number still in such a, a big market like Kazakhstan. We had the same growth in, in, in used construction equipment and the same numbers sold. Again, a good product mix, so at least 183%, sorry, turning to 400%, in, in revenue, and an aftermarket sales increase of, of 17%.

With such a strong sale of, of equipment, so such strong growth in equipment sales, the gross margin inevitably is decreasing due to that change in, in revenue mix. Again, we are looking hard, and we're working quite extensively with, with exploring potential project work in Kazakhstan. We, we see long-term potential for, for contracting services in, in Kazakhstan. We, we still have a way to go to implement, sorry, the articulated hauler concept in the market.

It's still a small market, and we believe that we can do a similar job as we did in Russia with, with actually creating that market and, and showing customers how to, to use those fantastic machines in the best way in, in particularly in gold mining, it's, it's a sweet spot for, for these equipment, but also in other applications, obviously. We, we are focusing a lot on, on, on doing that. Okay, next slide, please. Business development. We had an opening ceremony of our purpose-built service and sales hub in Hannover. CO2 neutral, a fantastic facility, and customers are, are very happy, and our employees are also very happy, which is equally important, obviously.

We continue to, to work closely with partners and customers to promote electric trucks, and we continue to, to set up our organization for Sandvik. Again, Kazakhstan, we, we've focused to further increase customer focus in the organization. Also setting up further the, the organization and service support for Sandvik. In Astana, we have this workshop now with focus on road construction, again, we're exploring contracting services. For the group, obviously, we are actively looking for new markets and, and business opportunities. Clearly, we want to grow in, in, and expand our, our current footprint and geographic footprint as well. Okay, next slide, please. This is now how the map of Germany is looking like. You see that we have made a number of transactions, a number of acquisitions....

since 2020 when we, we then took over around 10 workshops from, from Volvo and, and two workshops from a private dealer, and we now have 21 outlets in Germany, and the map looks like, looks like, looks like this. On the next slide, we have a map of Kazakhstan, obviously not the same density of, of network. In Kazakhstan, we have seven outlets. We're continuing to, to look for expansion opportunities, but it's good to see that we get now traction of the thinking of, of high productivity, machines, high productivity service, high parts availability, and, and making sure that we, we can improve the productivity of, of, the customer's business. We are on the right track here, as you can see from our growth numbers, and it's very, very good to see.

There is still a lot of work to do for us in, in Kazakhstan. Okay, next slide. I think by that I'm handing over, yes, I am, to, to Erik for the economic development. Please go ahead.

Erik Danemar
CFO, Ferronordic

Thank you, Lars. Yes, first, starting with a bit of economic context, the environment we're working in on in Germany, we had marginal growth in the first quarter, negative in the second quarter, according to the numbers we've seen so far. Expected around 0 for the full year of 2023. The economy is slowing in Germany. At the moment, IMF is expecting a positive growth in 2024, so just north of 1%, so a bit more, more in the economy next year. Inflation rate was elevated in 2022, as we know, remains high at 6.2% in July, and the rates, interest rates, as we all know, follow that trend.

were raised again in the quarter by 50 and 25, climbing higher. That is something that we see a bit more hesitation, potentially due to funding costs and uncertainty about the economy. Kazakhstan, very different picture, more than 3% growth in 2022, and expected more than 4 in this year. As much as 5% in the first half of this year, we have local data on, which is yet to be confirmed. Again, expected a strong growth in 2024. Inflation rate is high, but lower, very high by developed market standards.

Again, has come down from 20% in 2022 to 14% now in July. Probably helped by a stronger currency, so importing at lower prices, which dampens inflation. Of course, rates being high, 16.75% is still the central bank rate in the local currency. That's above where the inflation level is, and that rate has not been changed, although again, inflation is lower. So different macroeconomic context in the markets where we operate. If we take a look at the income statement overview, noting again, currencies in both countries have strengthened.

Income statement effect year-on-year, about 8% in EUR, balance sheet, 10%. For the Kazakhstani tenge, similar, 7% and 8%, 7% on the income statement. That's the average rate for the reporting period, so the second quarter I'm referring to. As Lars mentioned, a strong growth on the revenue side in both markets, and mainly driven by the new equipment sales, trucks in Germany and construction equipment in Kazakhstan, but also strong aftermarket growth in Germany. Slightly rebalancing, the group revenue makes 88% Germany, 12% CIS, which is now currently Kazakhstan.

Only, I believe we were around 85, 15 in the previous quarter, so slightly more tilted towards Germany. The mix also probably slightly higher on the equipment and truck side, given the strong growth there. Aftermarket, only 26%. Then we have, which is mainly rental business, and in Germany, that would be. Gross margin slightly higher with that product mix. It is driven more by the product mix that we have got out into the market and healthy price realization. SG&A is higher in absolute term, but lower as a share of revenue. You can see also on this line, sort of where we have the dynamics, so to say.

carries still a big part of the group costs when we look across, and that is the capacity that we're holding for business development. I would mention there, Lars has spoken about contracting services in Kazakhstan, something we're looking into. We have, of course, the electric rental in Germany, and of course, the potential for entering new markets as well, which also takes capacity on the group level. Operating margin increased from last year to less of a negative number of 1.5.

Operating profit at minus SEK 10, helped by a reversal also on the group level when we look at the group costs of a provision we had made in the previous year. Below EBIT, it is very much a reflection of the dynamics of the Swedish krona against the relevant currencies, mainly euros, but also US dollars, as it were. I will revert slightly on that. This slide I include only because it's we want to stress to the market how we changed the reporting from last year, so you can compare like for like. You will see operating profit line here below EBITDA, and on that line, you can compare like for like.

Germany, +2 this year, -7 last year, so positive dynamics of nine. But if you would go back to last year's report, you would see the operating profit after group allocation for Germany in Q2 2022, i.e., SEK -10. But again, now, as we report, we report the underlying segments, meaning Germany and CIS, before allocation of group costs, and then the group costs separately, as you can see here, the unallocated group cost columns that we have included here. That's why we have this slide. Trending operating result and margin, we, of course, we're aiming to continue to show that trend up, and we are working hard to resume it, to continue the positive trend.

In, in the quarter, we, we were lower than in the previous quarter, but then again, significantly higher than, than last year. Again, continuing the, the, the work in Germany to, to, get the most out of the aftermarket and, and, and get the fleet out there so that we can, get a, a bigger gross profit, and also, keep, costs in check. In, in Kazakhstan, Kazakhstan, somewhat similar picture.

We again, we want to continue to try and trend higher, of course, and indeed, a-again, if, if we look with some seasonality, in, in, Kazakhstan, less so in Germany, I would say, then, year on year, again, we're, we're showing improvement, but we would like to show, over, over, periods as well, consecutive periods, I mean, quarters growth. We do see big potential. Again, if you look at the actual numbers of, of vehicles, we, we still have a, a very long way to go in, in Kazakhstan, and, and that is in a way, a, a, a good potential that, that we still have to unlock in Kazakhstan, and, and indeed, the, the region.

Looking at the balance sheet, briefly, worth noting here that a part of it is FX effects, stronger, both euro and Tenge. When it comes to PPE, there is almost all of it in Germany. Here it's really more a euro that can be considered a driver. Looking year on year, of course, you would still have in Q2 last year, the Russian subsidiary. There, that explains the decline. If we look in terms of working capital, then we see high working capital in Kazakhstan, also as a percentage of last 12 months revenue.

Again, with growth in sales that we have posted so far this year, it is natural that we also acquire more inventories to meet the opportunities or capture the opportunities that we see in the market, market share, and by getting more machines out, also growing the aftermarket. In Kazakhstan, sorry, in Germany, net working capital actually decreased slightly, but inventories are higher, so it's actually an effect of higher payables and lower receivables in the quarter. We collected more from customers on the receivable side. Net debt decreased, sorry, net cash, that is, SEK 142 million- SEK 539 million.

I have a separate slide on that one, but we paid a dividend, of course, under SEK 9 million, and then we had CapEx and the increase in inventories that I mentioned are factors driving that. Still strong balance sheet here, 62% equity to assets. Part of that is driven by the FX effects, again, mainly on the euro. Moving to this slide to look at especially the net cash position, started out at SEK 681. We have the dividend payment, as I mentioned, CapEx of around SEK 102 million.

That being in more detail, around a third of that was a EUR 33 million investment into the rental fleet in Germany, the conventional rental fleet, and EUR 29 million going into the e-electric potential there, rental business. Then we have this slight actually working capital release on a group level, despite again, the increase in inventories, and an FX effect and the balance there of other items in the mix. Also tracking NAV for the group, a very meaningful cash and equivalent position that is held mainly in euros, a big part in US dollars, and a smaller balance in Swedish krona.

Trade and receivables, and then the inventory position I mentioned, the majority of that, around two-thirds is in Germany. Then we have... Oops, that was, sorry, not meant to change slide there. Property, plant, and equipment, again, really the majority of that is in Germany, and is then tied up in network, and rental fleet, as well. Other assets, then we have the liability side with payables and borrowings in roughly equal distributions there. That's what builds up our NAV and equity position. With that, Lars, I pass over to you for some words on the outlook.

Lars Corneliusson
CEO, Ferronordic

Yeah. Thank you. If we're looking forward, we see the German market remains firm. As we talked about, constraints in the value chain have eased, and the market has grown on increased supply, to cover for pent-up demand. We also see growing uncertainty about the economy, higher funding costs and inflation make customers more cautious, obviously, about placing orders for future delivery. I would say what we probably can say, and we see is a normalization of the market finally after three years of an abnormal delivery situation, and obviously, customers notice that as well. I think, this is a in reality, not a big thing. I think maybe it's even a good thing, going forward.

We see a rapidly growing interest also in electric transport, which is very, very encouraging. Obviously, customers also here, wants to see visibility on the economy and on the rollout of charging infrastructure. Obviously, we follow the market outlook closely. Longer term, we remain optimistic. Our sales area is, as we all know, in the heart of Europe's transport business, and benefits from commercial activity across industries and countries. Being part of developing sustainable transport is a strategic priority for us, and we're working very hard and wide in developing and accelerating that transformation. Our operations in Kazakhstan continue to develop nicely. We continue to seek opportunities to grow our product and business portfolio.

Obviously, demand for construction equipment is supported by Kazakhstan's growing role as a regional hub. It' s infrastructure projects and, and strong commodity prices. We believe that the underlying conditions and business opportunities in both German and Kazakh markets are strong. We continue, obviously, to, to explore business opportunities outside our current markets. By that, I think it's time to hand over for some questions, please.

Operator

If you wish to ask a question, please dial star five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial star five again on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Adrian Gilani from ABG Sundal Collier. Please go ahead.

Adrian Gilani
Equity Research Analyst, ABG Sundal Collier

Hi, Adrian here at ABG. A couple questions from my end. First of all, in Germany, given that, as you said, supply has now improved and there is this backlog of demand, should we expect similar growth figures on equipment sales in Germany for the second half of the year as well?

Lars Corneliusson
CEO, Ferronordic

Okay, I can take that, Adrian. Hi there.

Erik Danemar
CFO, Ferronordic

Yep.

Lars Corneliusson
CEO, Ferronordic

Yeah, I mean, the demand is, the pent-up demand is still there. I can, I can maybe say that. What, what, what is happening now is that the supply is actually finally catching up with the demand. which is, which is good, it will not last forever, but it will sooner or later come to normalization of, of that equilibrium, so to speak, which, which, in the long run is a good thing. So if that can answer your question, we see, we still, the demand is still there.

Adrian Gilani
Equity Research Analyst, ABG Sundal Collier

Yeah, that's helpful. A bit on the timeline, I mean, what's your best estimate of when we will see this equilibrium, when this backlog will be worked down, so to say?

Lars Corneliusson
CEO, Ferronordic

Yeah, I, I, I can't tell you, but it's still, it's still a long way to go. That's for sure. But as you saw, I mean, we saw an increase in the market of 33%. And as we said, I mean, last year, it, it's just the fact that more trucks are being delivered because the demand was there last year as well, but, but supply was limited.

Adrian Gilani
Equity Research Analyst, ABG Sundal Collier

Okay. On CIS, I mean, there was a significant drop in the gross margin here, and you mentioned the mix effect as a factor.

Lars Corneliusson
CEO, Ferronordic

Mm-hmm.

Adrian Gilani
Equity Research Analyst, ABG Sundal Collier

Just to clarify, is the mix effect, does that explain the entire gross margin drop, or are there any more factors at play that we should keep in mind?

Erik Danemar
CFO, Ferronordic

I think that's the main factor, Adrian, that you can have use for, so to say. There is always also factors in terms of the product mix, right? Different machines come with different margins and different deals with different clients. I think that's sort of, there, you should expect an average over time. Bigger machines, bigger margins, smaller machines, smaller margins, typically. Again, the biggest factor here is the mix that machine sales grow so much more than the aftermarket.

Adrian Gilani
Equity Research Analyst, ABG Sundal Collier

Okay, I understand. On the group costs, these came down a lot since last quarter, and I remember that you did mention last quarter that those were elevated, are the Q2 costs of SEK 19 million at group level, is that sort of where you expect to be going forward?

Erik Danemar
CFO, Ferronordic

I mean, group costs were underlying slightly lower in, in Q2 than Q1. Again, if you look at the 19 that you would see in the report, you need to be aware that there is this reversal effect, which is netted off there. That was about SEK 6.7 million. There was a reserve that was reversed in this Q2. It is sort of slightly lower than in Q1, but not as significantly as that effect has it to.

Again, I mean, we're, we're working to, to, to contain costs, but I, I've also mentioned , we are, the, the strategy is in to go into new markets, to have capacity for contracting services and also to develop electric. So, I, I, I think, you, you, you should probably look at, at, at this quarter and, and then our efforts to, to contain, but, but that's probably the more realistic trajectory in the second half of this year.

Adrian Gilani
Equity Research Analyst, ABG Sundal Collier

Okay, that's helpful. I guess rounding off with a more general question on the strategy ahead. Given that you are sitting on this oversized cost base at the moment, and the net cash position has been shrinking for a few quarters, are you still sort of fixed on using the cash that you have for a major acquisition and expanding into new markets? Or are you also looking at the option of distributing the cash to shareholders and just scaling down the cost base for smaller operations instead?

Lars Corneliusson
CEO, Ferronordic

No, our, our, our strategy, Adrian, is, is, is, the same. We want to, to, to grow our, our business. We want to expand our business, and, and, and that's what we are, what we are working very hard on at the moment.

Adrian Gilani
Equity Research Analyst, ABG Sundal Collier

Okay, I understand.

Erik Danemar
CFO, Ferronordic

Yeah.

Adrian Gilani
Equity Research Analyst, ABG Sundal Collier

In that case. Oh, go ahead.

Erik Danemar
CFO, Ferronordic

Also, Adrian, like, like Lars says, I mean, our strategy is to, to grow the business and, and, develop these, new areas and, and, again, go into a new markets. Also, I mean, part, of course, of the, reduction in, in the net cash position is a build-up in inventories. And that is a reflection of market opportunities. But, you know, on, on some level, the depending on how, how quickly we can grow, one may also expect maybe the, the working capital level as a percentage of revenues. Again, it depends on, on the future growth potential also to, to maybe normalize at slightly lower levels.

Adrian Gilani
Equity Research Analyst, ABG Sundal Collier

Okay, perfect. In that case, that was all for me, so thank you for taking my questions.

Erik Danemar
CFO, Ferronordic

Thank you, Adrian.

Operator

The next question comes from Victor Hansen, from Nordea. Please go ahead.

Victor Hansen
Equity Research Analyst, Nordea

Hi, Lars and Erik, it's Victor here. A couple of questions. So today, you talk and write some about your contracting services, and you mentioned investing in an organization for the area. I know that you don't have any current contracts ongoing, but I think it would be interesting to hear more on your thoughts on this topic of contracting services, because it seems to me, like you have some ongoing discussions which have made you commit to more, more costs. Is this something you can confirm? And perhaps also, if you could tell us what your costs are now for your contracting services organization, perhaps on a quarterly run rate basis, that would be interesting.

Erik Danemar
CFO, Ferronordic

I, I think, Victor, when it comes to commitment, then, I, I think it's natural that, that, when, when we have sort of firm commitments, that's something we would make, a, a, a disclosure or, or, a release on. At this point, it's still developing that potential and make making sure that we can deliver, those kind of services, in, at, at this point, it's Kazakhstan we're, we're referring to, could, could be sort of outside there as well, but that's what we're looking on, looking at, at the moment. We have sort of a lot of experience in, in gold, among others, mining generally, and, and there is, a lot of opportunities there in, Kazakhstan.

When it comes to sort of costs, I, I also, I mean, we haven't made any sort of particular disclosure there. I, I would probably stick at this point to, to saying or reiterating what we have said, that this is something that we're, we're building capacity for. You know, for example, we're, we're not taking on operators until we would have a project. It's more management and building the, the sort of infrastructure on an organizational level to, to be able to, to offer such services. I'll, I'll refrain from, from giving any sort of specific numbers there. Again, when it comes to, to actually committing, then, then I, I think that there, there would be sort of appropriate disclosure on, on that basis.

At this point, it's developing the, the potential, getting to, to, speak to the customers where we see that potential and, looking for opportunities in the market.

Victor Hansen
Equity Research Analyst, Nordea

Okay. We will look out for more information ahead, then. Thanks for the answer. My next question here, so you had an impairment of a couple of millions on some of your receivables. I'm wondering what this is related to and if there possibly could be more to come from the same customers or similar?

Erik Danemar
CFO, Ferronordic

No, I... Well, I mean, I, I think that's giving guidance. I, I think, probably you, you, you just have to consider sort of the, the macroeconomic situation. I, I think, again, in Kazakhstan, we're seeing sort of a, a strong outlook, in Germany, more of, I, I think, uncertainty. We're not seeing issues yet, as we say in the report, the market is firm. It's, it's a strong market, but we're seeing more uncertainty about the future. I think it's not sort of a, a reason to expect that to be a trend at this point, Victor.

I, I, think if, if that is something, then, then we should make, you know, the, the corresponding provisions for such a future, and, and we don't see the reason at this point to, to do that.

Victor Hansen
Equity Research Analyst, Nordea

Okay, got it. That's all for me. Thank you.

Erik Danemar
CFO, Ferronordic

Thank you, Victor.

Operator

There are no more questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.

Erik Danemar
CFO, Ferronordic

Maybe I, I can start there. I, I had some questions coming on email. One was with regard something we touched on already, SG&A costs, and growth in that area. I, I think one thing to say is on the S side of the SG&A, of course, that, that when we see very strong top line growth, as we've done in both segments, that comes with sales bonuses and sales commissions. That's one of the reason why you, you would see SG&A go up when, when, when sales go up, and correspondingly, then you, you would see it come down when, when if sales would, would, would come off. Beyond that, it, it is the group overheads as well.

Here I mentioned, I mean, contracting services, electric rental capacity, areas that we think are very exciting and, and want to have and, and build capacity for the opportunities that we see there. Of course, the work we're doing to, to identify the, the next market, and, and we write that we're looking at some specific opportunities indeed, and, and that comes also with some costs, legal, et cetera, which are not capitalized. That, I, I would say with regards to that question.

Another question from, from online or, or email is where we see that new market, whether it's Europe, elsewhere in the world or emerging markets, and, I mean, we haven't been giving details here, so, so that, you know, should be communicated to, to the whole market. At, at the same time, I, I think what we have said is that we are actually looking at opportunities globally, so to say, and, and then what we're saying, we're looking for somewhere, of course, where it makes a good match with our capacities and capabilities, and, and that, that may give some dictates for, for the geography. In addition, we have also communicated that we're looking for more mature opportunities.

Germany was loss-making when we took over it, more of a turnaround, maybe you could argue, whereas here we've said that, that we're looking for, for a more mature business, which is cash flow generating. Also a question further on contracting services, with regards to our expectation on returns and capital return on capital there. Again, I'll be cautious, we don't give specific numbers there, but we always said that it should be accretive on a return on capital basis, and it has been historically, it's a business that does tie up capital in the equipment to different extent, depending on how that equipment itself is contracted.

Beyond that, it's, it's, you know, relatively good returns on the, the fixed assets that, that we would carry in, in that business. I think that's with regards to the question that I have seen. Lars, I'm not sure if you have anything to, to address, otherwise, I'm, I'm, I'm good there. If there are no more further questions from, from the audience.

Lars Corneliusson
CEO, Ferronordic

Yeah, that's I think there was, there was a question, referring to how do we work with, with Sandvik and, and Volvo to ensure that machines are not going in backdoor to a, to a big country? Clearly, we have a very, very, very solid and stringent compliance method when we, when we sell. We, we, we investigate each and every customer. If we're talking about Kazakhstan, it's we're talking 17 units, all equipped with GPS trackers and, and so on and so forth. For us, obviously, we want the machines to stay in our market because we want to make money on the aftermarket on them, and that's where we make the bulk of the market, and that's how we actually go to market.

We, we, we present a package rather than just selling a machine. There, there are others that can do that much, much better. We, we sell a complete offering. That's what the customers are buying. You wouldn't buy a Volvo machine if you can't expect a high-quality service and good parts availability and then 24/7 support. In that respect, our business model as such or aptitude or what we should call it, helps us to make sure that everything is in accordance with all procedures and regulations. I don't know if there are any more questions.

Erik Danemar
CFO, Ferronordic

There are no more questions from the teleconference.

Lars Corneliusson
CEO, Ferronordic

Okay. I say thank you very much, everybody, for, for listening in. I hope to meet you again when we present Q3. Thank you very much, everybody.

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